The Reality Of What It Takes To Become A Better Man - Jimmy Rex

Chris Williamson 0:00 What does that Marcus Aurelius quote mean to you?

Jimmy Rex 0:04 You know, I think we- so many people want to, you know, say, like, "What is morality? What is- what is morals? What is- what is the right thing to do?" A lot of people look back at their life and think, "Well, you know, did I do good? Did I- was it good, uh, did- did I do enough things that mattered?" And things like that. And I think ultimately, we get so caught up in all these different discussions. In the end of the day, I say this to the guys that I coach, I say, "Hey, you know, like, you know if you're doing good or not. Like, we don't need to talk about it. Like, you know if it's the right thing to do. Like, you already know." And so that's kind of, to me, it's like, waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one. It's just, like, just do it. Like, you already know what to go do. Go do it.

Chris Williamson 0:40 People have this, uh, requirement to- to check how they're getting on, right? Progress, you have a progress bar at the bottom of this YouTube video that people will be watching. You have a- a bank balance account that can tell you how close you are to your saving goal. And I think what people are doing a lot of the time is, "Okay, what is the plan that I'm supposed to follow? What are the steps? What are the guidelines?" Um, but yeah, ultimately, I think it comes down to focusing on action rather than focusing on discos.

Jimmy Rex 1:09 Yeah, I think when we get caught up too much in checking off a box, right, or getting too much, um, into the- the details of what we're doing and, you know, trying to... Like, a perfect morning is not necessarily checking off 10 different things you did, right? Cold plunge, "I- I- I took my water as soon as I woke up. I made my bed." It's like, did you wake up and did you have peace? Did you enjoy it? You know, I think for me, I- I try to tell, uh, you know, when I speak about this stuff, I- I like to think, like, "Do you- do you enjoy your life? Do you wake up and you're happy that you get to be you? Do you wake up and you go, 'You know what? I'm excited that I get to go do this again today.' Like, I like being me when I wake up." And it's like, that's ultimately I think the goal is, is do you have a happy life? Like, without the details, 'cause there's no right way to do life. Everybody does it a little bit different, and I think where we get in trouble is when we think it needs to be a certain way. You know, there's nothing worse than somebody that says, "I have the way to make you happy and it's this way or no way." I grew up in religion and it's like there's one plan to happiness. They literally call it that and it's- I think you- it causes a lot of expectations, which causes a lot of pain. I think when you put all that aside and you just ultimately just look at your life and go, "Wait, do I enjoy who I get to be around? Do I enjoy waking up and being me every day?"

Chris Williamson 2:20 Are you excited to wake up is one of the best heuristics, I think. There's a... I can't remember who it was. Uh, Johnny, one of my friends from the UK told me about this doctor who said, "As a man, if you wake up with an erection and take a good dump once a day, most things are sorted." And I was like, "Yeah, that's not bad." But I would add a third one in which is, you're excited to get out of bed.

Jimmy Rex 2:39 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 2:39 Uh, not because you're escaping something, but because you're excited to get out of bed.

Jimmy Rex 2:43 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 2:44 What does it mean to be a healthy man in your opinion?

Jimmy Rex 2:47 Yeah, I think there's a couple main things. I think ultimately it starts with there, and I think this one there are kind of levels or steps to it a little bit. I think ultimately the first step is you can't be a liability to the people around you. You know, if you're a healthy man, uh, physically, you're able to do the things that you're able- you need to do in a- in a day. Um, if your kids need you to step up and, you know, physically be a certain person for them, you're able to do it. If you had to carry them because they got injured or whatever else that might be. And then I think there's, you know, financially, I think you have an obligation not to be a liability to the people in your life. You have to give them enough confidence which gives them faith in their own life and their ability to kind of, you know, go for it in life because they know, they're like, "You know what? I got this guy, I got my dad, I got my husband," whoever that is, "that allows me to be at peace, that allows me to know that life's never gonna get too bad 'cause I can count on this person." And I think to me that's what it means to be a healthy man. It's, you're not caught up with, you know, uh, these vices or these, you know, whatever it might be that's holding you back. You don't waste your time. You have vision, you have a purpose, I think, with... And it's not a purpose like in the sense of like, "Oh, I've gotta change the world. I gotta, you know, all humanity's gonna be different because I live." No, but like the people closest to you, the 30 or 50 people that- whose lives you can actually infect, you show up for them and they know they can count on you and there's a confidence that's built together. I think that's what it means to be a healthy man.

Chris Williamson 4:08 Physically, financially.

Jimmy Rex 4:11 Yeah, and then I think those are the two main ones, but then I think it's just, you know, it's having a vision or a mindset where you have a purpose for your life. You're- you're building towards something, right? You have a vision for it. You're not just letting whatever comes to you kind of happen to you. You're not reacting to the world. You're doing it by design. I think that's the best way I can frame it.

Chris Williamson 4:30 Yeah. Dr. Robert Glover says that, uh, the three aspects of a healthy man are a man who's comfortable in his own skin, knows where he's going, and is having fun while he's going there. And I think that that's a really lovely breakdown. I had a- a really interesting conversation with a dude who's a good bit younger than me and you, and his community is filled with sort of 13 to 19-year-old guys, young- young dudes. They're into personal development and all the rest of this stuff. But so much of the young guy obsession with how to become a man and what being a man is, and- and alpha men sit- they don't sit with their legs crossed or, you know, they- they always dress nicely or, you know, it's all about the jawline and all the rest of it. It's like, hey, dude, being comfortable in your own skin is so important.

Jimmy Rex 5:15 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 5:15 Like, you are just you. Are there some things, like, typically that make people more or less competent, more or less masculine? Yeah. But like the most competent, masculine, sexy thing that you can do is just not giving a fuck.

Jimmy Rex 5:28 Yeah. I'll tell you a funny story. This is- I- I wrote about it in the book, but it's one of my all-time favorite things that happened to me at my expense that is just hilarious. And I'd been studying masculinity. I'd been studying how to just be a more masculine man, right? And I go to this Tony Robbins event, his Date With Destiny event, and he has... I mean, there's 3,000, 4,000 people there and he has 30 women come on the stage. He wanted to show the women dancing and then you kind of cheer for whichever one is the most in their feminine. So with women it's very easy to tell. When they're dancing you can totally see it, you know, they're free in their spirit and everything else. Then he says, "Okay, so we all cheer and then pick the two women that, you know, that win." Then he says, "All right, now we're gonna cheer for the 30 men that are the most masculine. Come up if you wanna try." And I go up there 'cause I had studied this, so I knew that when you're dancing and your masculine, it's not like you're ripping your shirt off and swinging your hips. You're kind of just vibing with the music and going with it. So I'm like, "I think I can win this," you know? And so I get up there and I'm on the stage and-

Chris Williamson 6:21 How many people are you winning for now?

Jimmy Rex 6:22 4,000.

Chris Williamson 6:23 ... dancing in front of 4,000 people.

Jimmy Rex 6:24 Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Chris Williamson 6:25 That-

Jimmy Rex 6:25 With 30 other guys on the stage, and there's dudes ripping their shirt off and wi- So, I'm just vibing with the music and I, Chris, I think I'm gonna win 'cause... And so they do the vote, you know, they cheer for each person and I get one of the two or three loudest votes. So I'm feeling pretty good about myself. And Tony Robbins goes, "Okay, so you know which of these men is the most masculine?" He goes, "None of them, because a masculine man would never get on a stage and try-"

Chris Williamson 6:45 (laughs)

Jimmy Rex 6:45 "... to impress a bunch of random strangers." I'm like, "Oh, my gosh, he got me so good." I knew it too. I was like, "Oh, my gosh, it was so good." I just put my head down in shame. I'm just like, "Dude..." 'Cause it's so true, right? Like, I wouldn't give a shit if people thought I could do it or not, if I was actually in my masculine.

Chris Williamson 7:01 Yes.

Jimmy Rex 7:01 And so the very act of getting up there and trying to perform for strangers-

Chris Williamson 7:05 You lost the game before you even started.

Jimmy Rex 7:05 ... I lost the whole game before it started. It was so good.

Chris Williamson 7:08 That's an awesome story.

Jimmy Rex 7:09 Yeah.

Jimmy Rex 7:10 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 7:10 Why do you think it's different for women?

Jimmy Rex 7:13 Well, I think it's... Uh, I think we have to really understand the difference between men and women. Like, women are... You know, men, it's about being grounded. It's about, um, not giving a, a shit what other people think. It's about really just, you are so secure in your own self that you don't need to prove anything to anybody. Whereas for women, it's about being free, it's about being safe, right? And I think the problem we have in society right now, you know, I speak about this in the book a little bit, is that women don't feel safe. And human beings will do whatever they need to do to feel safe. So if a woman's in her masculine, God bless her, but she had to go there because somewhere in her world, she didn't feel safe to be in her feminine. And for a woman to be there, they have to truly know they're being held. I, I compare it to like a river, right? Like a riverbank is the masculine and if it's firm and it's strong, then the woman can be, you know, the water. And the water wants to flow freely and do its thing and dance wherever it wants to go, but it does need to be held so that it has a flow and so that it doesn't spill-

Chris Williamson 8:06 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Rex 8:06 ... out everywhere. And so at their core, women want to have that masculine, or feminine women wanna have that masculine core to hold them. And so when it's not there, they either have to become it or it spills out everywhere, and you see 'em, they're just a mess.

Chris Williamson 8:19 Yeah. I, uh... Uh, s- feeling safe and secure, two words that I wouldn't have really used, uh, probably up until about six months ago when I started doing therapy. And, uh, it's so... The more... Like, once you see it, you can't unsee it. So, hey, the reason that... A guy or girl, I think this is true for-

Jimmy Rex 8:36 Yes.

Chris Williamson 8:36 ... for men as well, the reason that you don't feel comfortable about opening up about your emotions is that you're terrified about what's gonna happen.

Jimmy Rex 8:41 Yes.

Chris Williamson 8:41 You're fearful about the response that you're going to get if you show an ounce of vulnerability to your partner. And the less that you train them to understand what it's like when you're vulnerable, the less they're going to be able to accept it, which means that eventually if it does bubble over, spill out of the top, you punch a hole in a wall or you break down crying or you do whatever, it's such a, a harsh change. How could you expect this person that's never had any experience with you, dealing with you showing emotions, and you've gone from zero to a thousand, and y- y- what you're basically saying is, "Now deal with this, pick up the pieces, fix this mess."

Jimmy Rex 9:16 Yeah, I talked to... You know, uh, y- there's this idea of like... So I talk a lot about vulnerability and I think vulnerability is a superpower, but to your point, if you're vulnerable and you don't get back into your masculine afterwards and do something about it, if you don't hold a frame again, then you, you, you know, kind of lose the attraction of the woman. And so what I tell people, I say, "Look," and, and why I've learned this as a coach is you can't change anybody. Like nobody... You can't... If you're trying to change people, good luck. All you can do is create a container that's safe, whatever that looks like, and then you inspire people to feel safe enough to want to be inspired to change themselves.

Chris Williamson 9:51 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Rex 9:51 And that's really where change happens. It's... Your only job as a coach or a mentor or whatever that might be, is to create a container where they truly feel safe to be vulnerable, they know they'll be seen, they'll be accepted in that state. And when people get loved when they've been seen for who they truly are, most people have never experienced it, and so they've never experienced true love. 'Cause a lot of my guys will say to me, you know, they'll say, "Jimmy, I, I've never trusted the love I get because I think deep down, well, if they knew who I really was, they wouldn't love me." And so we teach them that's why authenticity and vulnerability matters, that's why getting into integrity matters, because when you do those things, you experience love and they're, they're getting it. Like for better or worse, they know who you are and they still love you. Then all of a sudden, you know, it's like before that they have a bucket with holes in it, but once they truly, uh, you know, can share that in a safe environment, then they feel loved for the first time and fully being seen, and all of a sudden they can trust that.

Chris Williamson 10:42 The problem is, if you play a role because you're terrified of opening up and being seen and being authentic, warts and all, and, and, and rage and all and all of the things, if you don't do that, any love that you feel is just gonna be hollow. Because who are they in love with?

Jimmy Rex 10:58 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 10:58 A character.

Jimmy Rex 10:59 I've been talking about this with some of my closest buddies. The only people I wanna spend time with now is where I can 100% truly be myself without fear of like, they're going to judge me for it. Like the, there's such a freedom in being completely you.

Chris Williamson 11:13 How much is that your job and how much is that the job of the people that are around you?

Jimmy Rex 11:18 I think it's your job to create the relationships where that's where you get to show up that way 'cause like I have those people in my life where... And it's, some of them are not my family, like some people are not my... You know, who you'd think is my closest friends, you're still holding back, you're not being truly you. But I think true freedom, like that, that feeling of like, "Oh my gosh, I, I don't have to worry about what I'm saying. I can be completely myself." And they understand it, they get me. I can even say the wrong thing and they're going to just laugh at me because they already know my heart, they know who I am. And those to me are the only relationships worth really investing in because that's where you truly get to just feel... Just be yourself and be at ease and be, you know, really be vulnerable without worrying that it's gonna come back and haunt you later on.

Chris Williamson 11:59 I came

Chris Williamson 12:00 to one of your events, I spoke at one of your events a- about a month ago or so. How many people were there, 500, maybe 600?

Jimmy Rex 12:05 About 500, 600, yeah.

Chris Williamson 12:06 But your community is thousands, thousands and thousands of men. And this is not just young guys, it's successful CEOs, it's blue-collar workers, it's pastors, it's everybody. What is unifying those men in terms of their struggles?

Jimmy Rex 12:22 Mm.

Chris Williamson 12:23 You have guys from very different backgrounds with very different trajectories and very different life situations. What are the things that those guys are...... commonly dealing with.

Jimmy Rex 12:34 Yeah, so I do two exercises with them when we first get together. I'll kind of explain them both 'cause I think it helps explain that. So the first one that I do, you know, I've been to all these masterminds and events, and what happens is you get all these people and they're all successful, but they kind of start bragging about themselves and they're telling you how cool they are. They're talking about their car, their job, how much money they make, their girls, whatever it might be. And it kind of comes off as you're just like, "Okay, dude," like, whatever, it's like ego, right? But what they're really saying, Chris, is they're saying, "Hey, I promise I'm worthy to get to know. Please love me." Like, uh, that's what their-

Chris Williamson 13:02 Mm. Look at my values.

Jimmy Rex 13:03 Yeah. And, but they don't know how to say that, so instead they say, "Dude, check out this girl I'm dating," or, "Look at this car I have," you know? And so all those kinds of things, they're talking about their business portfolio. And so what I do the first weekend we get together, I have this exercise we do called the Badass List. And what I do is I make all f- all the guys, they have to make a list of 50 or more things they've done in their life that makes them a badass. And then the key to the whole thing is you have to read the list as if you're reading it about somebody else. 'Cause we will give a stranger so much credit, but we never give it to ourselves. And so when you're reading the list about someone else, you're like, "Damn," or about yourself, but you think it's someone else, you're like, "I'd like to hang out with this guy," you know? And so we do that, but then I had another thing that I experienced, where I had a buddy one time, and I had looked up to this guy for years. But he was over at our house one night, and he was talking about how he was just down, and he didn't, he didn't feel like he fit in, he didn't feel like he belonged with our group. I'm like, "What are you talking about? Like, I've looked up to you, dude." So we close the door, like eight of us in the room. I said, "Dude, this is the safest room you're ever gonna be in. You're just gonna brag about how awesome you are. Tell us all the amazing things and we're gonna cheer our asses off for you." And so we did it, and I just saw this dude, like, go from an imposter to just lit up. And so what we do at our event is I have all the guys read their list, and when they're done, we all scream and yell like they just won the Super Bowl. And so we cheer 'em on, and a lot of these guys say, they're like, "Man, I- I've never, like no one usually, you know, gives me credit for what I do. I just go to work all day-

Chris Williamson 14:23 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Rex 14:23 ... working my ass off for my family, but nobody really appreciates it. It felt really good to be cheered, you know?" And so the first time they get together, we do that, and what they see is like, yeah, you got this guy that flew in on his jet and he's had a lot of success in business, but this guy over here, you know, stayed with his brother for four years while he was dying of cancer. And this dude over here as a single dad has stepped up for his kids and never missed a, you know, one of their events or whatever. And so, like, everybody's worth just, like, getting to know. And so that's the first thing that really puts us all in the same plane. Um, and then the second one that we do, it's all in ... I did a documentary that kind of shares a lot of this, because it was really hard to explain why my event was different than a normal alpha camp and all those things, you know? But it's, it's, uh, watvid.com if anyone wants to check it out, but... And so on that video though, um, we show this exercise, and it's called Step in the Circle. I created this kind of from a different experience I had. So I had the opportunity to go to Pelican Bay Prison. It's one of the most dangerous prisons in America. Um, this-

Chris Williamson 15:18 Where is it?

Jimmy Rex 15:19 Uh, it's just north of San Francisco. So-

Chris Williamson 15:21 How many, how many people are in...

Jimmy Rex 15:22 Uh, thousands. But in this particular unit, there's this lady named Katherine Hook, and she has this program where she takes these inmates and she has entrepreneurs come and teach them. And we did like a Shark Tank thing where they pitched us and we could, uh, decide to invest in their idea. And these are guys on death row. Like, these are dudes that are in there for murder, and-

Chris Williamson 15:39 So this is super, super max?

Jimmy Rex 15:40 Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like if you've ever seen Training Day with Denzel Washington-

Chris Williamson 15:43 Right.

Jimmy Rex 15:43 ... there's a scene where he's like, "I'll send you to Pelican Bay." Like, it's that bad. It's like the prison you don't wanna go to. So we go there, and I'm pretty nervous. There's about 30, 40 entrepreneurs, and we walk in and all these inmates, there's about 100 of 'em, and they're free, they're not cuffed or anything, and they're screaming, they're yelling, cheering us on, and we go in. Anyway, we end up teaching 'em for about a half a day, and then we do this exercise where she put all the inmates on one side, about 100 of 'em, and the 40 entrepreneurs on the other side. And she starts asking this series of questions to kind of show A, you're privileged, but B, that we're all the same and everything else. So she'll ask like, "Hey, if you had a parent tuck you in at night at least once a week, step in the cir- or step up to the line." And like, none of the inmates would, but like most of the entrepreneurs would. And then she's like, "If you had a family member, immediate family member, brother or sister die by the time you were 18 years old, step to the line." Half the inmates again, none of the entrepreneurs. And then she says, "If you've ever committed a felony, step to the line."

Chris Williamson 16:35 (laughs)

Jimmy Rex 16:35 All the inmates, n- like one of the entrepreneurs. And all of a sudden she goes, "I'm sorry. I didn't say if you got caught for a felony, if you ever committed a felony. If you ever-

Chris Williamson 16:43 (laughs)

Jimmy Rex 16:43 ... been in a fight, you could've gotten a felony for that.

Chris Williamson 16:46 On a red light.

Jimmy Rex 16:46 For a lot of these people, that's where it starts. Yeah. And so all of a sudden, I'm like, "Oh, shit." (laughs) We all step to the line, right? Anyways, it changed my life because I just saw, like, you know, these people in a different light forever. So I decided to bring this into my own group. But I wanted more than, obviously, everybody's, you know, entrepreneurs in my group or just normal business people. And so I read a series of about 40 questions though, and if it, you know, applies to you, I have 'em step into the circle. And it's a way to be seen and a way to like ... So many are people just, they want to share this thing that they're ashamed of. Like, shame festers in the dark. Again, I have a whole chapter in the book about this, because I felt that growing up. I thought I was the worst human. I grew up in a very, again, religious household and, and part of that was, you know, you were, I mean, we were taught that next to murdering somebody, sexual sin was the next worst thing, it was that bad. It was like, there was a lot of shame around. So I didn't even ... I went into my 30s as a virgin, but I had guilt and shame because I wanted-

Chris Williamson 17:42 You were the Mormon church?

Jimmy Rex 17:43 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 17:43 Yep.

Jimmy Rex 17:44 Because I wanted to, you know, have sex with girls. Like, and so I knew the, the mindset of this. And so many guys, they beat themselves up over so many things that like, they just don't need to. And so with this game that we play, this exercise, um, I ask 'em, I start it out, I'm like, "If you're afraid you're gonna let your kids down one day, step in the circle." And then, you know, I go on, I'm like, "You know, if you've ever had a, a parent die, step in the circle. If your parents divorce when you were a kid, step in the circle." And then I start asking some more serious questions. I was like, "If you ever woke up thinking today would be your last day, or thought about committing suicide in a serious manner, please step in the circle." And like half the group steps in. All of a sudden, it gets real f- half the people are crying, you know? And then I s- can start asking more questions, like, "If you've ever been cheated on, step in the circle. If you've ever cheated on somebody, step in the circle. If you need to go home from this event and talk to your spouse to get back into integrity because of something you've done in the past that you've never told her, step in the circle."... 20 guys step in, right? But we're all ballin', we're all connected to this moment of like, "Oh my gosh, I'm not alone."

Chris Williamson 18:41 Mm.

Jimmy Rex 18:42 Because we think our, you know, we think our problems are so unique to us, and it's like, we're all dealing with the same thing. Like, I'll say if you've ever had a problem with pornography, steps in, it's like the whole group, right? It's like, everybody's like that. Um, you know, and I'll... And, and so by the time this is done, everybody is on this even playing field. Like, "Oh my gosh, all we need to do is love each other." There's no judgment in the room. All the people are there to, like, really support and love each other. And I spend the next day and a half prepping them to jump off this giant cliff that's 400 feet down, and they're leaving behind a bad habit, negative relationship, or limiting belief they have. And they, you know, come back up with a more em- empowering, um, you know, new philosophy or whatever, belief. And it's so powerful, man. I'll have 10 to 20 guys go home from each event and talk to their girlfriend or their spouse and get back into integrity. And because all of a sudden, again, I had one guy, he, uh, he was a bouncer. He was a former NFL football player. He was a bouncer, actually for Lil Nas, of all people, like, and, uh, and he went to some strip clubs, and his wife and him had a agreement that, like, they were very against doing that kind of stuff, and he'd never told her. So he goes home from my event and he, uh, he tells her and he says for four hours, she wouldn't talk to him. And then she comes up and she loves him and, you know, she's like, "Thank you for telling me. I love you so much." And he called me ballin'. This is a big, muscly man. He was an NFL lineman. And he says, uh, "Man, I know for the first time in my whole marriage, my wife loves me. For the first time, I know it." And, uh, and so that's kind of the whole reason why I tell these guys, like, these are the three pillars of everything I'm teaching, is vulnerability, authenticity, and in-integrity. Because then and only then can you trust the love you get. It's not for any other reason than if people truly know, like, here's who I am, here's who you are, and they love you in that state, for a lot of people, they've never felt loved or seen that way. And so they'll go to the ends of the earth for each other, and there's just a bond that's formed so fast, and I think that's been the secret to my whole program and why, you know, guys from all walks of life get along so well together.

Chris Williamson 20:35 Talk to me about shame. Talk to me about how that plays a role, how it appears in people's lives that they might not realize.

Jimmy Rex 20:41 Yeah, you know, shame is, "I'm bad," instead of, "I did something bad." That's the, you know, the first thing I think is very important to recognize. You know, for me, growing up, again, it was like, I just felt like I never could live up, and I think religion in general kinda helps make you feel broken so that they... you need them, you know? Like, you know, the Savior or repentance and all these concepts, and to me, it's like, I get that, but like, ultimately, I believe in a God that is just all-loving and understanding. And so the very need for, like, you know, needing saved, I just don't believe that. I think that, like, when we can wrap our heads around, like, who God is or what God is or whatever, then all of a sudden you're like, "Wait, I don't have to beat myself up. Of course I'm gonna fall short." Like, the game is to fail. Like, anybody that's ever gotten good at something had to fail their ass off to get there, right? Your first podcast probably wasn't very good.

Chris Williamson 21:31 Sucked.

Jimmy Rex 21:32 Yeah. (laughs) My first one (laughs) , just to give you an idea, uh, a buddy of mine, I hired his two sons to, like, help me with the camera and the boom mic. I had a boom mic. That's hilarious, right? And, uh, they were in high school, and he came to watch them, and I was interviewing this local, like, rapper dude. It was just horrible. And I, I ran out of questions like 12 minutes in, (laughs) and he- my buddy starts asking questions to my guest from behind the camera. That was my first podcast.

Chris Williamson 21:53 Mine wasn't that bad.

Jimmy Rex 21:54 Yeah, I mean, to give you an idea, like, but the ultimate- the thing is I almost want to delete it, but it's like, I'm 570 episodes in now.

Chris Williamson 22:00 Yeah.

Jimmy Rex 22:01 You know, I can have on anybody now. Um, I'm interviewing my childhood, like, celebrity stars, you know, and people in my life. And so- but you have to suck to get good, and so it's the same thing with life. It's like, so when you have shame around what you've done, you keep thinking to yourself, like, "God, like, you know? If people knew who I was, they wouldn't love me," or you just don't feel like you're enough, you don't feel like you're lovable. But when you kind of expose it and you're able to go like, "Hey, you know what? Here's what happened to me. Here's, like, my story," and we think people will love us less. We think, like every guy, like, that I've ever coached says the same thing. They're like, "Oh, man. If, if people knew who I really was, they wouldn't love me." And then they tell it, and you're like, "Dude, what if none of us are worthy? What if all of us just are okay because we are?" You know, I think one of the things that's helped me a lot is that I think God laughs at me. I think he takes humor in my mistakes.

Chris Williamson 22:46 (laughs)

Jimmy Rex 22:46 And I've just taken this, like, role of that, because I switched my relationship with God where he just appreciates me. He appreciates the dumb shit I do, he appreciates the good stuff I do, and he's just like- he sees me as a character. And I think- I would think about my kid. If I had a kid just always getting in trouble, but like, trying shit and screwing it up and all the time just being a jackass, but like, he's so loving and he's trying his best. Like, how could you not love that person?

Chris Williamson 23:12 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Rex 23:12 And I think of God like me, like, thinking of me like that. And so for me, it really empowers me, and so every day I start with a prayer where I go, "God, just lead me to the people that need me." And if that leads me to weird things that I do that I shouldn't have done or, like, just, you know, being an, an idiot sometimes, then I can laugh about it and just go, "You know what? God appreciates this. I'm okay with it." And that's the opposite of shame. Shame is where you just feel like, you know, "I'm not worthy of doing this. Like, I can't be the one to do this." But like, as you've seen, the most amazing people are simply people that are willing to take action without knowing it's gonna work. It's like, people that can give themselves grace when they fall. They can, you know, be okay with, you know, not having all the answers or not getting it right the first time. And so for me, shame is what keeps us in this dark place, and it festers in the dark, and nobody wants to talk about it. And so you gotta find people that are willing to listen to you and not judge you and, and be able to be curious about why, you know? Anytime you get somebody's story, Brené Brown talks about this all the time. It's like, the second you start leaning into somebody, you're like, "Oh, they're worth loving." I've never met somebody that once I leaned in and got their story weren't lovable.

Chris Williamson 24:16 Mm. Yeah, it's strange to think, uh, shame is, "If people could see me, they won't love me." But by doing that thing, people don't connect with you. So like, the thing that you are fearful of is the thing that you are making happen?

Jimmy Rex 24:31 Yes. Yeah, and that's- 'cause the universe only hears, you know, like, it- it... the energy of that, you're going to repel anybody that's trying to connect. And so you're exactly right. It's like, the thing we want most, we avoid giving. I always say to people, like, "Whatever you want the most of, give it away." If you want more money, give it away. If you want more time, give away your time. If you want more love, give away love. 'Cause what happens is you sh-... energetically, you let the universe know that, "Hey, I see this thing in abundance. I have so much money, I can give it away. I have so much time, I can donate my time." And all of a sudden, it becomes this abundant thing in your life, as opposed to this thing that you have this scarcity around and this weird energy

Jimmy Rex 25:07 around.

Chris Williamson 25:08 Yeah, I think as well, just to kind of really drill home that, uh, knows where he's going and is comfortable in his skin and having fun while he's going there, the, like, comfortable in your skin thing, the- the thing that is going to make you, I believe, the most lovable and the most accepted by people and the most liked, uh, is going to be your ability to say things that, in the wrong hands, would make you unlikable.

Jimmy Rex 25:34 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 25:34 Like, that is the cool thing. All of the- all of the best friends that I've got, we've bonded over- I remember what- here's one story. So Yousef, uh, been on the show like 50 times, he was one of the most common guests, one of my best friends in the UK, uh, he hurt his lower back one time, um, we both got bulging discs. And when you have that, it's like your whole back seizes up, so the spine, uh, the- the erectors in- in the lower back just lock so that you can't do any more damage to the spine-

Jimmy Rex 26:02 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 26:02 ... because obviously, it's super, super important and he just wants to protect you. It's super painful. It's basically impossible to kind of stop happening. And he messaged saying that this had gone on, and I was like, "Oh fuck, man. Like, I know what you're going through." And I was on my way to work, I was gonna open up one of our events, one of our club nights in Newcastle. I was like, "Oh, okay. Well, I'll tell you what, I'll drive to the corner shop that's near his house, buy him some malt loaf and some sort of Gatorade, Lucozade things, and, uh, some I Believe, uh, Pain, like, gel stuff that'll help, and- and maybe something else." And I texted him and he was like, "Oh, don't- don't bother coming to see me, like, I'm laid in bed." And I was like, "I'm- I'm coming to see you."

Jimmy Rex 26:41 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 26:41 So I, like, opened the door, went upstairs, and he, like, could- couldn't really walk because it kind of shuts down the way that your body's able to move. And, uh, I think that was the moment that our friendship really, really went to another level, because I was like, "Look, I don't care that you look weak and vulnerable and pathetic and, you- you know, you're fragile and broken. What I want is to be a friend. Like, I'm here for you, I want to do this thing." And, uh, I think about that a lot. I think about that gesture from me, and he's done similar stuff for me too. And, uh, you go, that moment of him being broken-

Jimmy Rex 27:12 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 27:12 ... was actually the bit where I was like, "I see humanity in him. I see this part of him that is, like, that is deserving of love." Because the person that's completely all- just super competent all the time-

Jimmy Rex 27:25 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 27:25 ... I- I don't know, I can't really relate with that person.

Jimmy Rex 27:27 Well, we actually love people that we serve. And so a mistake that guys make in dating a lot is they try to do everything for the girl, they don't let her do anything for them, because we actually love something more when we're invested or we- we get to serve them, we get to do things for them. I tell a story in the book about my best friend Travis, and same thing, he's like the most good-looking dude, he's got the supermodel wife, amazing kids, seven-figure job, part-owner of a tech company-

Chris Williamson 27:50 All of it, just- just as a s-

Jimmy Rex 27:51 Dude's just crushing it, yeah.

Chris Williamson 27:52 ... as a side point, every single guy that's a part of your inner circle that I met has got, like, 10 out of 10 big titty wives.

Jimmy Rex 28:00 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 28:00 Like, what is in the water in fucking Utah that's ca-

Jimmy Rex 28:02 Yeah, there's some good breeding in Utah. It's not bad-

Chris Williamson 28:05 My God-

Jimmy Rex 28:05 ... it's not bad out there.

Chris Williamson 28:06 ... the gene pool.

Jimmy Rex 28:08 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 28:08 What was it that someone taught me that evening? Utah's got the hottest single moms in America?

Jimmy Rex 28:14 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 28:14 (laughs)

Jimmy Rex 28:15 Um, you know, I've always been grateful for the beautiful women in Utah, I will say that.

Chris Williamson 28:19 (laughs)

Jimmy Rex 28:19 Like, I've been to 106 countries now, so I've seen what's out there, and I always come home to Utah. It's like, there's just, it really is, there are some beautiful women there. But, you know, what's funny about this guy is there was, like, this little bit of, like, he's always a little bit too cool, right? Or a little bit too done together. Not with me, but with a lot of people. Just a little bit intimidating, even though he's not that way. But dude, so one night he comes over, he's about to become a dad. He was about a month away. And he pulled me and my other two best friends into a room, and he says, he s- he starts crying. He says, "Hey guys, I don't feel worthy of, like, being a father. I'm really worried that I'm not gonna be a good dad." He said, "My- my love language is words of affirmation. Can you guys just pour into me a little bit?"

Chris Williamson 28:56 (laughs)

Jimmy Rex 28:56 And it was so innocent, and I was like-

Chris Williamson 28:59 Yeah.

Jimmy Rex 28:59 ... "Oh my gosh." And I-

Chris Williamson 28:59 I see you.

Jimmy Rex 29:00 Yes. And we just started telling him how amazing he is. And I can get emotional thinking about it, because it was like the moment... I've never loved him more than in that moment. It was like, "Oh, this dude does need me, like, and I need him." And, you know, and like, "We need each other." And it's like, oh my gosh, like, this is such a beautiful thing, like, he's-

Chris Williamson 29:16 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Rex 29:16 ... in his moment of weakness, he's asked for support and allowed me to be that for him.

Chris Williamson 29:20 Mm.

Jimmy Rex 29:21 And that is a different level of friendship.

Chris Williamson 29:23 There was a, I think it was Dr. Robert Glover again, he is on his third marriage now.

Jimmy Rex 29:29 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 29:30 Uh, and he, I think it's like a Mexican lady or some sort of Central American, South American lady that, uh... And maybe he's got enough money for a maid or maybe he's able to take out the garbage. There was some sort of normal household chore that he had said to her, like, "No, d- d- don't bother..." Oh, he was ironing the clothes.

Jimmy Rex 29:48 Mm.

Chris Williamson 29:48 He was ironing the clothes, and he was like, "I'm gonna get the maid to iron the clothes." And she basically said something to the extent of like, "I want to iron your clothes." Like, "I want to feel like I'm contributing to your life."

Jimmy Rex 29:59 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 29:59 And I'm sure that there's, uh, women listening that are like, "I fucking don't wanna iron his clothes."

Jimmy Rex 30:03 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 30:03 But, y- you know, it, those acts of service a lot of the time make you feel like you're contributing to somebody's life.

Jimmy Rex 30:09 Yes. Yeah. Well, I've- I've literally, like, I've been on dates before where I used to fake, like... I got a headache one time and I faked, like, I was fine, and it was throbbing, and I just tried to power through the date. Can't let my date know I've got a headache, you know? And then I kind of learned this concept, and I was like... So the next time I got a headache, it was years later, but I'm like, "I'm just gonna kind of lean into it." I was like, "Hey, I'm so sorry, I have the worst headache." And she goes, "Here, let me rub your head." And I'm, next thing you know, my head's in her lap and she's kind of giving me a massage and she's taking care of me all night.

Chris Williamson 30:35 And now you're mani-

Jimmy Rex 30:35 And she fell in love, like, it was-

Chris Williamson 30:37 And-

Jimmy Rex 30:37 No, it worked! She was like-

Chris Williamson 30:38 And now you're manifesting headaches when you don't even-

Jimmy Rex 30:40 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 30:40 ... have one to get yourself into the lap of women.

Jimmy Rex 30:43 But isn't that funny though? It's like, you know, we- we think we have to have everything put together, but women wanna serve. Like, a good woman wants to be- contribute, she wants to be a nurturer, she wants to contribute to-

Chris Williamson 30:52 Yep.

Jimmy Rex 30:52 ... your happiness and make you happy and do things for you.

Chris Williamson 30:54 So, uh, this, like...I've been thinking about competence a lot and how people ... It's an allure and an attraction and stuff. And I'm very, uh, attracted, like, in my friendships and in my relationships to people that are competent, people that are able to do stuff. And I think that there's too much of a meta around men being competent and women being incompetent. I think that it's seen as, like, that sort of mastery, I-need-to-do-a-thing thing. If you're with a chick that is an unbelievable pickleball player or is, like, a really good driver or something like that, you're like, "That's fucking sexy."

Jimmy Rex 31:27 Oh, yeah.

Chris Williamson 31:28 "That's cool." And the same thing goes for a guy where it's like, hey, this dude crushes in business, he's really confident, he's in good shape or whatever, he can't dance. It's like, that's kind of charming.

Jimmy Rex 31:40 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 31:41 Like, to actually embrace that side of him, be like ... And, you know, the wife or the girlfriend, the, that he's out on a date with, he's like, "Look, I, you gonna have to take the lead here. Like, you're the one that can dance, I can't." And that's cool because your incompetence is polarized against all of the stuff that you crush at. And I think that a lot of the time what guys are trying to do is cover up their incompetence with fake competence as opposed to just saying, "These are the areas in which I am good."

Jimmy Rex 32:09 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 32:09 "These are the areas in which I am bad. Love me for both of them." As opposed to, like, "Don't see this over here." And it's such a ... It's like a f- a very fragile, tenuous, sort of broken view of yourself. It's like, oh, your, your fucking self-worth lies on such a knife edge that even the slightest hint of some weakness means that you're now no longer valuable.

Jimmy Rex 32:34 Well, and it gives women permission to not have to have everything figured out. Like, when you can't do certain things, they're kinda like, "Oh, I can relax around this guy."

Chris Williamson 32:41 Mm.

Jimmy Rex 32:41 I can go back to what I said before, it's really nice when you can just be yourself, right? I mean, men have to be competent in certain areas. Like, uh, w- no woman's gonna be like, "Oh, that's cute," if he's incompetent at making money, right? (laughs) Like-

Chris Williamson 32:52 Correct, yeah.

Jimmy Rex 32:52 ... incompetent at, like-

Chris Williamson 32:53 It's so cute how you continue to spend our house deposit on gambling.

Jimmy Rex 32:57 Exactly, right, exactly.

Chris Williamson 32:58 Yeah.

Jimmy Rex 32:58 But, like, when it comes to other things, yes, it's okay to be like, (laughs) you know what? One of my favorite things is a woman that's passionately engaged in something she loves. It doesn't matter what it is. Like, just, if you see a woman and she just loves her thing and she's amazing at it, it is beautiful. Like, when a woman can play the piano or, you know, sings, or just even-

Chris Williamson 33:16 Be a great mother.

Jimmy Rex 33:17 Yes, whatever it is, it's just like, oh my gosh, that's so beautiful to watch. And I always say I look for women that are passionate, um, just like they love to do their things. And instead of, you know, I mean, a lot of times we get caught up with the wrong things. But like for men, there is certain things you wanna be competent at, but the rest of it, the word I like to use is playful. Like, the most attractive state a man can be in is a playful state.

Chris Williamson 33:39 Mm.

Jimmy Rex 33:39 Because you're, you're just, it's n- you're never in a negative emotion when you're being playful.

Chris Williamson 33:43 Not taking yourself too seriously.

Jimmy Rex 33:44 Yes, you're allowed to just kind of screw shit up a little bit and kinda have fun with it, you know? It's in my mission statement for my life is, is to be a playful human, because I think it's one of the most important. It's like, when I was a kid, I remember I'd go into my friends' houses and, like, everyone's had this experience where their parents are miserable and they're just hard to be around, you're just trying to stay downstairs 'cause the dad just came home from work. And I remember thinking even as a kid, like, "Man, I just want ... I wanna be an adult that's fun. I want people to run to me, I want people to be excited when I show up."

Chris Williamson 34:09 Come, like, "Oh, Jimmy's coming? Fuck yeah."

Jimmy Rex 34:11 "Yeah, that's gonna be fun," yeah, exactly. And I believe I've, I've accomplished that, but that's what I want, is just like where little kids run to you, and they're like, they know. You know, I have 200 kids that call me Uncle Jimmy because it's the guys I coach's kids or my best friends' kids, and I love that. I just did an Easter egg hunt for my clients last Saturday for Easter, and I have a helicopter come and drop 10,000 eggs on these kids. And, dude, they're full of candy, of jellybeans. It's so funny. I mean, kids are getting pelted in the head and-

Chris Williamson 34:35 (laughs)

Jimmy Rex 34:36 That is like a core memory for a k-

Chris Williamson 34:38 Take c-

Jimmy Rex 34:39 Yes, but that's like a core memory for a little kid, right? Like, the Easter time, an egg hit them in the face from a helicopter. But I have, you know, little kids will run up, and I had this one lady, she came to me during my fireworks show that I do last year. And she said, "My son just said something," I went, "Say it again?" And he's like, "I just wanna be like you when I grow up." And it's like, that's the greatest compliment I've ever had. Like, a little kid aspiring to have this fun, playful life as an adult.

Chris Williamson 35:02 Mm.

Jimmy Rex 35:02 'Cause it's what I always wanted when I was a kid. I always wanted to be that, and so I've really built a life around doing that.

Chris Williamson 35:08 You mentioned negativity. Why are so many people negative as a default? There seems to be a culture of cynicism at the moment.

Jimmy Rex 35:15 Yeah, I think it's hardwired in us. Like, I mean, look, when you think about humans is, their whole purpose is to replicate and survive, right? And so to survive, what are you doing? Your natural DNA kinda screws you over, but it looks for what's going wrong so that it can fix it, so it can be aware of it, so it can look out for it, be danger, or whatever it might be. And so I think we're hardwired to look for what's wrong. It's why we're attracted to the car wreck, it's why we're attracted to the news. But you have to hijack your own brain. Tony Robbins talks about this all the time, but like if you can hijack your brain to look for what's right, then you can live in a state of gratitude. And he said the way you do that is by being grateful. Like, and so, you know, one of the ... My coach, my best coach I've ever had, she would always just say to me, any time I ... You know, I remember one time this, one of my friends had betrayed me in this whole thing and I was so mad. And she said, "Where's the gift in this?" I was like, "We're not playing this game right now."

Chris Williamson 36:04 (laughs)

Jimmy Rex 36:04 Like, I get to just be pissed-

Chris Williamson 36:05 "Let me see."

Jimmy Rex 36:05 ... for a minute, yes. She goes, "No, we're not getting off the phone until you come up with 20 gifts." I'm like, "There's not 20 gifts in this." By the time I got off the phone with her an hour and a half later, I came up with 26 gifts that happened from this moment. And so it's like, whatever we focus on, you know, we feel, we know this, but we are naturally wired to look for the negative, for looking for what's wrong. It's just, it's it, it's a defense mechanism to keep ourselves alive. But it keeps us from happiness. And so-

Chris Williamson 36:31 It's not just the seeking the negative, though, that I'm talking about. It's also, like, the promulgation of the negative. It's the downplaying of other people's successes.

Jimmy Rex 36:41 Mm.

Chris Williamson 36:41 It's the mean comments on the internet. Where's, what's the impetus for that?

Jimmy Rex 36:44 Yeah, so that, yeah, yeah, so that one, um, I believe ... So when we see somebody having success, so people can look at your podcast, they have to say one of two things. Either, "Wow, look what he accomplished, he must be amazing," or they have to go, "He must've got lucky." And the reason why they say that or they try to come at you or the negative is because you have to look at your own life and you have to realize, okay...You either have to change yourself or you gotta make everybody else wrong. So, it's easier to just be like, "Well, he must've got lucky."

Chris Williamson 37:10 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Rex 37:11 Or, "He probably cheated to get there." Because the opposite of that, the, the alternative of that is you gotta look at your own life and go, "What do I need to change so I can be successful, so I can be rich, so I can have a great podcast?" And people don't wanna do that. It's easier to try to make the other person wrong.

Chris Williamson 37:24 Mm.

Jimmy Rex 37:24 And so people naturally default to, "That person must have done it, you know, illegally," or "That person's not who they say they are."

Chris Williamson 37:30 Unfair advantage of some kind.

Jimmy Rex 37:31 They, they try to make that person wrong. Yeah, 'cause they don't wanna change themselves. It's more work to... You know, people don't wanna look at themselves. And I think that's-

Chris Williamson 37:37 It's a really interesting point.

Jimmy Rex 37:38 Yeah, I think that's why, you know, Jocko Willink talks about this all the time, that extreme ownership is, it's the opposite of being a villain. Like, the only thing that's, like, uh, commemorable or, like, you know, uh, that's good about being a victim is, is getting over it. It's like th- when you c- overcome it, like, that's the only thing that's, you know, really admirable about being a victim. And so people will do anything to fight for that victim story because it allows them to not have to change themselves. "If I'm a victim, I don't need to change." Like, "This is why this thing's happening to me, and I can just make everybody else wrong around me." Like, the second you take ownership of your own stuff, you gotta fix it, you gotta make changes. And that's harder for most people, and so they'd rather just assume everybody else is, is wrong.

Chris Williamson 38:15 You mentioned

Chris Williamson 38:16 Tony Robbins, Brené Brown. You've worked with a ton of coaches. You do this stuff yourself. Can you take me through the most high leverage mantras, approaches, uh, uh, uh, fundamental frameworks and philosophies that you've learned from all of the time that you've been doing this coaching? Is there, uh, uh, a few things that you always come back to that are fundamental to your worldview?

Jimmy Rex 38:39 Sure. Yeah, I, I, you know, one of my philosophies, and I, I kind of talk about the, um, the formula for transformation in my book. There's really five steps to it, and kind of goes with this, so I'll kinda, uh, share that. But step number one is you have to take a moral stand. You have to decide, like, you know, what's right and what's wrong, first off. You have to be honest about what you're doing. S-

Chris Williamson 38:55 How do you do that?

Jimmy Rex 38:56 Um, I think we know at our core. I think it's just really having self-awareness. You know, Gary Vee talks about that. The most important quality a human can have is self-awareness. It's just being honest with yourself. "Hey, you're not doing the things you need to be doing." If you're fat, it's not because of your genes or because of this or th- it's because you eat wrong, it's 'cause you don't exercise. Uh, y- you gotta be honest, right? If like, whatever the thing might be. So, I think that step number one is just being honest and just going, "Okay, you know what? I, I can admit that I'm not doing things I need to be doing, or I'm doing things I shouldn't be doing." Number two is you change your behavior. Like, you have to decide what the alternative to what you're doing is going to be. And we used to live in a world where that was a little bit difficult, the skills and the, you know, the actual information was hard to get. It's not now. It's very simple. There's a million different ways to get it. Now, it's more about executing on what you already know. And then the third step is having accountability, because it can be very difficult to change on your own. And so accountability is... You know, most of the good coaches, dude, none of 'em say anything that's world-breaking. Like, I've had people that, you know, signed up for my program, they're like, "You're not saying anything I don't know." I said, "Exactly, but I'm holding you accountable to being on the call every week." And just the very act of showing up and being here, you're going to get inspiration for your own life of what you need to change, because you're thinking about what you can do better or what you can do differently.

Chris Williamson 40:05 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Rex 40:05 And so just putting yourself in that environment is creating that change for you, or at least that inspiration to know what you need to change. Um, the fourth one is having support. That's where my community comes in for me exactly. But like everybody... Like, uh, you can't do these things on your own. Like, I tell a story. I told it at the conference that you spoke at. You know, we climbed Mount Kilimanjaro, and one of my buddies, uh, that I met on that trip, uh, this guy Kiwi, had one leg. And he was, uh, getting to the top of this mountain with one leg, and, uh, I won't tell the full story 'cause it'd take me 20 minutes. But long story short, there's this former NFL football player, Dave Vobora, that trained him for six, seven months leading up to it. And the second day we were hiking, Dave... I was hiking, and you know, when I talked to the guy with the one leg, he said he wanted to, you know, do it for the other military people that take their lives every day. 22 military guys take their life every day. He said, "I wanted to show them they have something to worth, you know, living for." So, I'm like, "Damn, this is, that's a big, a- why this guy's gonna get to the top." And so I'm talking to Dave the next day, and he says, "Look, dude, it's deeper than that. This guy's called me twice. His wife has called me twice in the last six months. He's had the gun in his mouth." And he's like, "He's, he's struggling. If he doesn't get to the top of this mountain, I think he'll be dead within a couple months." I'm like, "Holy shit-"

Chris Williamson 41:14 No pressure.

Jimmy Rex 41:15 "... this just got a lot bigger than climbing a mountain." You know, and I was like stoked, 'cause we were doing it with Jason Kelce, who's kind of become like a, th- n- m-

Chris Williamson 41:22 Hyper star.

Jimmy Rex 41:22 Yeah, yeah, yeah, and like Chris Long, and these amazing humans, and I was excited to meet them. But all of a sudden, my whole thing was about getting this guy to the top. Well, long story short, we get to the sixth day, which is when you summit. And the problem with altitude is it doesn't discriminate, man. You get up there... I had, we had a defensive back for the Titans that was done. He was shitting himself and just all sorts of a mess. We have other guys that... I mean, some of the most athletic dudes in the world. We had a marine with us that turned back, to give you an idea of how difficult this is. Literally, a marine. Like, they don't turn back. Vince Young, the like, one of the all-time college football players the year before, he turned back. So, I mean, this is a very difficult hike. It's the hardest thing I've ever done. So, I'm watching Q all night, the guy with one leg. He's climbing this mountain, and he's f- he fell hundreds of times. Keeps getting up, keeps getting up. We finally... uh, we're about three, four hours behind. We get to this false summit, and it's about 600 feet from the top. And, uh, if you've ever climbed Kili, this, it's, it's, the hard part is you're now up in the altitude the highest you are, and you have to walk for about an hour around the rim, basically, to get to the actual top. And I'm listening to Chris Long, who was kind of the guy in charge of our, um, whole group, and this guy named Orca, who was in charge of basically all of the, um, sherpas and stuff. And they're like, "Hey man, he's done. We gotta send him down." And I'm sitting there and, you know, I was, at the time, I was just a realtor. I'm like, "What am I gonna say," basically, you know? And so I'm finding, I'm looking for my buddy Dave, who's like this 6'5" linebacker, just freaking beast of a man. And I run up to him, I said, "Hey, they're, they're trying to get Q to go down," like, "You gotta do something." And this dude comes over and he grabs Q and he's like, "Damn it, Q, you're not done yet. We came here to go to the top of the summit. We're going to the top of the summit." And then he looks at Orca, he goes, "He's going to the top." He looks at Chris. "He's going with me. If we have to carry his ass, that's what we're doing. We're not stopping 600 feet from the top." And he goes, "Q, you good?" He goes, "Yeah, I'm good." (laughs) And so we end up throwing an arm around this dude and we get him to the top of the summit, and it took about two hours, and we're all just dying and hurting. And it was like, I'm bawling, like watching this, I... you know, Dave is there for m-... and, uh, I talk about it in the book. I said, "Who is going to be your Dave Vobora? Like, when you're done..." I mean, this guy gave everything. It was like he was spent. He gave everything he had-But somebody in that moment loved him more than he could love himself. Like, somebody said, "I don't care if you're done, we're gonna carry your ass from here," and got him to the top because he knew what was on the line. And so that's the whole point of having mentors, or that... Step five is find a mentor, right?

Chris Williamson 43:40 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Rex 43:40 Having a Dave Obora, having somebody in your world that can help you when you're done, that's where your community picks you up and says, "No. We're not done yet, dude. We're gonna make this happen." And so that's the formula for transformation. That's the whole reason coaching is so valuable. And, you know, the mentorship part, the last piece, is essentially you wanna find someb-... That's why I hired Ed Mylett to be my one-on-one coach, because you wanna find somebody that's where you wanna go, where you wanna be, that's been where you are, and then you just find a way to create enough value to be in their world.

Chris Williamson 44:08 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Rex 44:08 And they can compress that time. You can skip a lot of the hurdles they had to, you know, a lot of the grenades they had to fall on for you, and you can get where they're going so much quicker. And so I just look for people that inspire me, for people that are doing things that I wanna be doing, and then I just figure out how to create enough value to be in their life, and that's how I find mentors. That's how I find, like, people like you, man. It's like, it... My podcast is like, I'm 570 episodes in, but I'm like, "Shit, man. Look at what Chris..." Like, I'm so inspired by... You're never satisfied. You're always pushing. You're always doing more. You study, like, the y- the way that you articulate things, and I'm learning from you. I'm like, I... That's why I reached out to you, and I'm like, "I'm gonna get into this dude's world." I know how to create enough value for him because I appreciate that he's doing this at the highest level and I wanna learn from him. I wanna be... Most people become friends with who lives next to them or who, you know, their kids play ball together and you're... That's their parents. I'm like, "No, no. Who is just killing life? Who inspires me? I'm gonna figure out what they're doing, because that's gonna make my life so much better." And so that's where coaching or mentorship and all that stuff comes in.

Chris Williamson 45:08 I love the idea of being friends with people who believe in you more than you do.

Jimmy Rex 45:12 Oh, yeah.

Chris Williamson 45:13 And that's so rare...

Jimmy Rex 45:14 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 45:14 ... to like, okay, you want a partner who believes in you more than you do. You want friends that believe in you more than you do. You want support that is more encouraging than it is pitying.

Jimmy Rex 45:25 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 45:25 It's like, "Look, I hold you to a high standard because I know that you can get there. I know that you can do this thing and that you can make this work."

Jimmy Rex 45:32 Yes.

Chris Williamson 45:32 "Even if you don't, that's cool."

Jimmy Rex 45:34 I had a guy come to my... I had did my launch party for my book last night, and one of the guys came up to me. So three weeks ago, we did an event and we did a hike, and this dude's outta shape. He's the oldest guy in our group. He's never... He's... Does 3,000 steps a day, to give you an idea. Like, that's not very many. (laughs) He gets to the fridge and back a few times. And on the way back from the hike, we had to carry him. Like... And I pulled him aside. I said, "Listen, man," I said, "I know how much you love this group, but you cannot be a liability. We can't ever have to carry you again." I said, "Here's the deal. 10,000 steps every day, and if you miss, you're out of the group, period. I love you enough that I'm going to do that to you. I will kick you out if you miss. You gotta text me every day." He has not missed a day. He came up to me last night at the event and gave me a big old hug, and he said, "Dude, thank you for loving me enough to actually hold me accountable to this. It's changing everything."

Chris Williamson 46:18 Mm.

Jimmy Rex 46:18 Like, he's... It was last night. He just literally came up to me last night.

Chris Williamson 46:21 How cool.

Jimmy Rex 46:22 And so...

Chris Williamson 46:22 You b- you mentioned there about, um, this, uh, uh, my never satisfied approach. I'm really trying to unpack at the moment the difference between holding yourself to a high standard and being grateful for the things that you've done...

Jimmy Rex 46:36 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 46:36 ... for finding this balance between wanting more and, uh, demanding high achievement of yourself, and yet having the grace and, and the, the acceptance to, um, allow yourself a little bit of room if you do fall short, or to just know that, look, no one PRs their workout every single day.

Jimmy Rex 46:58 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 46:59 Like, that's not the way that it works, and that's not the way that life works either. Have you... How have you come to think about this balance between a desire for excellence and grace when you're falling short?

Jimmy Rex 47:08 Yeah, I think a lot of it is the energy behind it, like where it's coming from, so I- I tell my guys, I say, "Look, you're enough and you're capable of much more." Like, I start with that, right? But... So for me, I... And a- again, it's another story from the book, but I, uh... You know, when I was a kid, my dad really wanted me to get held back in eighth grade to be a star baseball player. My brother had been the two-time state MVP, so he's like, "I'm gonna hold you back for a year, and then you'll be that much better. You'll be able to be a star," and I didn't want to. I had good friends. I, you know... I- I was one of the older kids already. I was a pretty smart kid. So eventually, long story short, my dad put all this pressure on me to get held back and I told him no. And he looked me in the eyes and he said, "Okay, well, just so you know, you're not good enough. You'll never play baseball again." And all I heard was, "You're not good enough."

Chris Williamson 47:46 Mm.

Jimmy Rex 47:46 So I wrote it on my hat brim and I wore that for three years. So now as an adult, like, I know the power of affirmations and words and things.

Chris Williamson 47:53 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Rex 47:53 I'm like, "Oh my gosh, " like, I hadn't seen this hat or thought of it in 17 years, but it drove me for 20 years of my life, of like, not feeling like I was good enough. And so I had this never-ending ambition just to try to prove that I was worthy, uh, that I was enough. And it was interesting, I was doing a, a journey one time with some of my friends, it was actually my first ever journey, and I saw this hat. And I had this voice, like, come to me and it was really beautiful. It said, "This has served you, but it no longer does. It's time to let it go." And I was like, "Oh my gosh," like, "I don't have to prove myself every day. I don't have to be the best at everything. I don't have to be number one." And I did and I kinda just let it go. And from that point on, it did become much harder at first-

Chris Williamson 48:32 Mm.

Jimmy Rex 48:32 ... to find my motivation to do things.

Chris Williamson 48:35 No, because you're not running away from something you fear.

Jimmy Rex 48:36 Exactly, because it was coming from fear of not being loved, right? So it wasn't until I came up with my new motto, which is the name of my company, We Are The They, that I fully, like, was coming out of doing things out of love. So now, I work harder than ever and I'm more ambitious than ever, but it comes from a different energy for me, and so it feels healthy. It doesn't feel needy. It doesn't feel like I have to do it. I just want to do it, and I think that's the difference. Like, I don't... There's no need to do this. It's like, I want to give everything I have to this because of what it's doing, but it no longer feels like if I don't... I... Like, if I stop tomorrow, I wouldn't feel like I was a failure. I wouldn't feel like I let anyone down.

Chris Williamson 49:11 Mm.

Jimmy Rex 49:11 It was like, that thing was so beautiful while I did it. And so I think the energy that you come out something with is a... is a big indicator.

Chris Williamson 49:18 Yeah, there's sort of two elements there that I think about a lot, the first one being lots of people have... I did when I was younger... a concern that if I gave myself too much grace and too much room and didn't...... castigate myself when I fell short, that I wouldn't be driven to go and do great things.

Jimmy Rex 49:36 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 49:37 And I think that that's just a, a fundamental misunderstanding about how your drive works. For the people who want to do great things, it's not... You couldn't turn that furnace off if I fucking paid you.

Jimmy Rex 49:49 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 49:50 Like, you are-

Jimmy Rex 49:50 They're so obsessed with that idea.

Chris Williamson 49:52 Correct.

Jimmy Rex 49:52 Yes, yes.

Chris Williamson 49:52 They, they love, they... All they want to do is become better, they want to improve, they want to contribute, they want to crush, whatever it is, they're obsessive, they're, you know, they, they work hard. And you think that by allowing yourself to feel a little bit of pleasure or gratitude or to give yourself some grace if you don't succeed, that that's going to dampen that down? Absolute bullshit. And then on the second side of that, let's say that giving yourself a little bit more room and a bit more grace did reduce down your drive. Let's say that it did do that.

Jimmy Rex 50:22 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 50:23 What have you gained and what have you lost? Like, you are sacrificing the thing you want, happiness-

Jimmy Rex 50:28 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 50:29 ... for the thing which is supposed to get it, which is success. So if you are able to make yourself happier without chasing success, that's a W as well.

Jimmy Rex 50:36 It is.

Chris Williamson 50:37 Like, if you're... Okay, so ultimately what we're looking to try and achieve, I think, in life is, like, enjoyable emotional states. I think that's broadly what it is. You just want to feel sort of peaceful and alive, right?

Jimmy Rex 50:50 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 50:50 Okay. Well, if that's the case, I can get there from a million different routes. I can maybe get there by hitting new subscriber numbers on my channel or I can get there by having sex with lots of women or I can get there by raising a family or I can get there by succeeding in business or I can get there by racing cars fast or whatever it is, whatever the thing is that makes you do that. Okay. But what if there was a quicker route? What if there was a shorter route? What if you didn't need so much stimulus outside of it? What if instead of trying to go faster with the successes, you took the brakes off all of the, the shame and the guilt and stuff that is sitting around you, that's driving you to do that in the first place? Either of those seem like a win to me, but certainly releasing the brake before you press harder on the accelerator, like, that's the smart approach.

Jimmy Rex 51:30 Well, going back to Marcus Aurelius, one of the reasons why I love the Stoics and, you know, and, and those emperors and those people, because, you know, their whole idea was not to need more. It was, it was being okay with less. It was like when you need more stimulus or you need more accomplishment to, to feel that way, you're in a, you're in a little bit of a tough spot, right? Uh, one of my, you know, favorite things that I've learned is, like there's three things that money can't buy, and that's a peaceful mind, a healthy body, and loving relationships. It's why rich people go nuts, because they don't have any of them.

Chris Williamson 51:58 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Rex 51:59 And it's where they get in all their trouble, because they're trying to buy those three things, but you have to earn those, you have to go out and get those, and I think those are ultimately the three things that bring you fulfillment. And, you know, Tony Robbins again, but he says, "Success without fulfillment is the ultimate failure." And that quote is just driven in me. I-

Chris Williamson 52:13 Success without fulfillment-

Jimmy Rex 52:15 Without fulfillment is the ultimate failure.

Chris Williamson 52:16 ... what's that mean to you?

Jimmy Rex 52:17 It means you can win the whole world, but if you're not happy about it, then you're just that much bigger of a failure. Like, you- the key is happiness, the key is fulfillment. It's not what you can acquire, what you accomplish, or what you do. It's like, are you at peace? Like, do you actually enjoy your life? Do you wake up and you're just happy to be you, you know? And for some people, um... You know, I used to live in Mexico for two years, and I would s- I was on the border. It was a very interesting time because I got to see the contrast of people coming across the border from the US, and they were always trying to, you know, consume or get something or come buy something, or they were just... and they were so miserable and mean. And these people in Mexico that literally, I mean, dirt floors, outhouses, nine kids in a living room sleeping, and they were so happy and content. And I'm like, "Which one of these people is successful?"

Chris Williamson 53:01 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Rex 53:01 It's not the people from the US coming across the border, I can promise you that.

Chris Williamson 53:04 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Rex 53:05 And so ultimately, I think, you know, if you're not happy with little, you're not gonna be happy with more, just money is gonna magnify it. And, and so, like, in life, success, we... You say this as good as anybody, but like you chase this thing, but you give up the things that really make you happy for the success, and you're hoping that success will make you happy. It's like, no, no, you were there. Like, just go back to-

Chris Williamson 53:23 Sacrificing the thing you want for the thing that's supposed to get it.

Jimmy Rex 53:25 Exactly.

Chris Williamson 53:26 Yeah. Dude, I see it so much, and I see it in myself as well. It's like, is there a quicker route to this? There's a, uh, an interesting cue that one of my friends gave me while we were in the gym. So we're doing, uh, (clears throat) like high side plank. So when you've got sort of one hand down on the ground, one foot on the ground, and the other hand's up, and it was in the middle of some awful ............................ I'm like 25 minutes in and he's super fit and I'm like, "I- bro, I do push pull legs now," like I'm on the- I'm on my bro split era. I'm in my rich .......................... I'm not, I'm not doing this stuff. And, uh, I was like sweating and shaking and like sort of grunting to myself and, you know, like really sort of gripping hard. And he shouted over and said, "Hey, what would this be like if it was easier?" I was like, "Oh, that's interesting. What would this be like if it was easier?" I was like, "Well, I'd smile and I'd like sort of grip less hard because it's not really helping my performance." I'm like digging in where I need to, but I'm not actually having that much fun.

Jimmy Rex 54:15 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 54:15 And the other day I was playing pickleball and it was mixed doubles, and the chick that I was playing with, we- we were two-two best of five, and the- I was sort of walking back to the baseline as we're about to begin the fifth game and I'm like, "So, um, the- her forehand is like a little bit .......................... like to keep it on her backhand and it doesn't seem like he's driving, so when we drive we need to come up to the net together at the same time, we need to do the rest..." And she was like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, and also let's not forget to have fun." I was like, "Yeah, that too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very good. Very good. Thank you." (laughs)

Jimmy Rex 54:43 (laughs) That is so good.

Chris Williamson 54:44 It's like the- what is it? Like men will try and win a totally arbitrary pickleball game rather than go to therapy-

Jimmy Rex 54:50 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 54:50 ... like that, and it's that compulsion and you catch yourself and you go, "What if this was easier?"

Jimmy Rex 54:55 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 54:55 "What if this was more fun?" What if, what if it's not about gripping onto things really hard? What if it was about kind of just allowing things to happen?

Jimmy Rex 55:05 Yeah, I think a lot of people, they almost feel like... Re- I was in real estate for almost 20 years and so I, you know, I sold almost 3,000 houses and I would see realtors do this all the time on the other end of the deal, they'd just try to make problems. And I don't know if they were trying to justify their commission or they just needed it to be difficult 'cause that's the way they are in life, but they would just cause problem after problem. And I can't tell you how many times I said, "Listen, I need you to just do nothing. Like literally sit on your hands for two days. When you pull them back out, go grab your check and cash it for $14,000, but you need to stop. (laughs) Like you're causing issues that don't exist." But they almost needed it to be difficult to try to justify their own purpose or their own existence within it, you know?

Chris Williamson 55:42 Yeah, I've got a great story about this. So (clears throat) they did a, uh, a study with TSA agents, uh, and...They... I think it was, like, a, a training, uh, scenario but using the current, uh, technology. So, they had pretend passengers come through and over time the passengers had fewer and fewer infractions, up to the point where there was none. There was zero infractions, right? The job of the TSA guys is to find people who are not... uh, who are contravening the rules.

Jimmy Rex 56:15 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 56:15 And in the beginning, sure enough, they're finding stuff, pulling bags to one side, opening them, checking them, so on and so forth. And over time, fewer and fewer people broke those rules, so you would assume that the TSA agents were, uh, allowing more and more people to go through. But the ratio stayed the same. So, as there were fewer problems, their scrutiny for problems increased.

Jimmy Rex 56:37 Mm.

Chris Williamson 56:38 The... It's like there's this sort of baseline level of how much work I need to be seen to be doing, and they're optimizing to fill that-

Jimmy Rex 56:46 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 56:46 ... as opposed to the actual thing. So the- they're using, "How many people do I pull to one side," as a proxy for, "How secure am I being?" But that's not-

Jimmy Rex 56:54 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 56:54 ... necessarily what it is. Same thing happens if you're on a group Zoom call. I hate Zoom calls that have got any more than two people on them, because, uh, any more than three, maybe. You end a call and e- e- everyone's agreed on something, a- a new piece of artwork that you're gonna put out for a business or a new email marketing campaign or whatever it is that you're doing, and you get to the end of the call. And if everyone's just been like, "Do you know what? I love that. That's really great. That's really great. That's really great," person number seven goes, "Yeah, but what about..." And it's like, "Oh, fuck, dude, it was fine. It was fine." But there's this sense that if we don't push back against something, we're not working.

Jimmy Rex 57:29 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 57:29 It's like, "This can't be that easy." And sometimes you need to continue to push, and there are people that push to that limit, and I'm definitely that guy. When it comes to the can design, it took, like, a million different versions. But there are other areas where you're like, "Good. That's good. Let it go."

Jimmy Rex 57:44 Yeah, well, I think we see this with, uh, you know, police officers a lot of times. It's like the good cops are... Their whole job is to just create community and, and to, like, make sure there's no problems. But, like, when there aren't problems, they start to kinda create the problems. I've seen this in my life a few times. And you're like, "Dude, go away." Like, "Everybody's fine." You know? Like, we did this... The government did this with, you know, with the whole COVID thing, it was just, like, they just created so many issues and problems. And I think it's... To justify all these people to have purpose, you know? Uh, Joe Rogan talks about this on his podcast, about the homeless problem in California. And there's so many people... They create a bigger homeless problem because they all have to justify their multi-six-figure incomes. And so they just... they don't wanna fix issues. And all of a sudden, we either create problems that don't exist or we make, you know, a problem that exists, like, harder to solve than it needs to be, because we're almost just trying to, like, create enough value of our own self-worth or our, our need for us to be there.

Chris Williamson 58:37 Hmm. How do you

Chris Williamson 58:39 come to think about fear and the role of fear in a man's life?

Jimmy Rex 58:44 I think that fear is one of the biggest things that holds people back, um, uh, you know, but it... I think it's... I think fear is... It's an emotion. And of itself, it's not good or bad. I think it can teach us a lot, can, can help us a lot. But ultimately, you know, I think you have to get a healthy relationship to fear. When you understand... when you can feel the fear and you go, "Okay, I know it's happening. I'm feeling afraid," like... So when I was in college, (laughs) I remember there was this cutest girl in the cafeteria of, of where I went to school, and I didn't go talk to her. And it was beating me up for, like, two days, I was so mad. And I was like, "You know, I'm gonna make a rule. No matter what, when I see a cute girl from now on, I'm just gonna approach. I got three seconds to go talk to her, period." And I spent the next four years doing that very thing. And, I mean, you just overcome any fear of doing that thing. With my guys in the coaching program, again, on our first weekend together, I have them jump off this giant cliff. Um, you know, I'm taking 25 guys to Africa next week. We're doing bungee jumping off a bridge into a river, the Zambezi River. We're doing this gorge rope swing. I'm taking them to just do some crazy things. We're doing white water rafting where there's, like, crocodiles in the water and stuff. Because when you get over that initial feeling of like, "Oh no, I can't do this," like, I make them skydive, I make them walk on hot coals, all of the above, j- cliff jump, all of it. Because every time you overcome that fear, your ability to, to hear it, to feel it, and then to overpass it becomes that much easier. So I have one guy, he had never done anything scary-

Chris Williamson 1:00:03 Mm-hmm.