Modern WisdomWhat Do BDSM & Meditation Have In Common? | Professor Paul Bloom | Modern Wisdom Podcast 120
At a glance
WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT
Paul Bloom Explores Empathy’s Flaws, Tribalism, and Productive Suffering
- Chris Williamson interviews Yale psychologist Paul Bloom about empathy, morality, tribalism, and why we sometimes seek out suffering. Bloom argues that emotional empathy (feeling others’ pain) is biased, exhausting, and often a poor moral guide, and proposes “rational compassion” as a better foundation for ethics and helping others. They discuss in‑group/out‑group psychology, the naturalness of tribalism and revenge, and how modern society increasingly tries to transcend some of our evolved instincts. Bloom also previews his upcoming book on why people willingly pursue painful experiences—from BDSM and horror films to intense exercise and challenging life projects—and how suffering is intertwined with meaning and the good life.
IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING
5 ideasDistinguish clearly between empathy and compassion in your own life.
Empathy (feeling what others feel) is not the same as compassion (caring and wanting to help); you can be highly compassionate and effective without emotionally absorbing others’ distress, which often leads to burnout and poor decisions.
Don’t rely on empathy as your primary moral compass.
Empathy is inherently biased toward people who are similar, close, or salient, which means it can skew fairness (e.g., favoring a vivid individual story over a just waiting list) and even amplify in‑group favoritism and racism.
Cultivate ‘rational compassion’ for better decisions and policies.
Use your head to decide who most needs help and what actually works, while keeping genuine concern for others; this allows you to care beyond your immediate circle and avoid being captured by the loudest or closest plea.
Recognize that tribalism is natural—but not automatically right.
Humans effortlessly form us-versus-them groups, even over arbitrary differences, so overcoming prejudice requires conscious rules, institutions, and self-scrutiny rather than assuming our gut reactions are morally trustworthy.
Seek meaningful challenges instead of pure comfort.
Deep projects—raising children, building a career, athletic feats—are valuable partly because they involve effort, risk, and discomfort; when life becomes too easy, people often feel restless or empty rather than fulfilled.
WORDS WORTH SAVING
5 quotesEmpathy pushes you to the close, to the similar, and as moral reflective beings, we say, ‘We could do better than that.’
— Paul Bloom
What we want in friends is not somebody to multiply our sadness, but somebody to replace it with happiness.
— Paul Bloom
There’s no such thing as not giving a shit. There’s just signaling you don’t give a shit.
— Paul Bloom
If there’s one thing we know, it’s that a propensity to break the world up into us versus them comes natural.
— Paul Bloom
If you told me about something you did and you said, ‘It was easy-peasy, no pain at all,’ I would guarantee you you’re not gonna take much of value from it.
— Paul Bloom
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