Modern WisdomWhose Fault Was The Attack On Trump? - Former CIA Agent Mike Baker
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
145 min read · 28,791 words- 0:00 – 8:16
Whose Fault Was This?
- CWChris Williamson
How big of an intelligence failure was this?
- MBMike Baker
Well, it, it's, you, you have to think of it more as a logistical failure as opposed to an intelligence failure. This was a, a breakdown in, in what should be very standard security protocols. And look, the Secret Service does that very well, but clearly, right? And you always have to, you, I, I, I caveat this with one thing. You have to always wait for an investigation to, to finish, right? They're currently in the middle of their own investigation as to what the hell happened. Um, and obviously as soon as this happens, everybody on social media is an executive protection expert, right? So everybody's talking about, you know, exactly how this happened. Well, well, you know, uh, they, I, I, so I think it's important not to get out over your skis, but in a situation like this, clearly it would be insane to say that there weren't, uh, failures, there weren't breakdowns here. And even people with no experience can, can look at this and say, "I'm sorry. How, how did you not have somebody up on top of a roof that had line of sight to the stage, to the rally event?" Uh, and so typically, look, when, when something like this happens, and I, I've done countless, you know, advanced plannings and security assessments and risk and threat assessments, and, and, and typically when something happens like this, it's not one thing, right? It's, it's a, it's a series of, of mistakes or missteps that compound and then you end up with this, this goat rope that never should have happened. Um, so they're doing an investigation. Uh, Congress, of course, has called for an investigation. I wouldn't expect anything to come from that, um, because Washington DC is where all investigations go to die. And, uh, but the, uh, the, the bureaus is involved, uh, Secret Service obviously doing their own hot wash. Uh, and they sit underneath the Department of Homeland Security, you know, so if DHS does a review, fine. But there's so much video footage of this, right? And it happened in real time with so many people watching and so many different angles that I think in this case, unlike sometimes, sometimes you get investigations of a, of a, of a, of an event and you don't get much transparency, right? Because internally they're trying to figure out, okay, how do we improve this? Well, you don't wanna necessarily talk about all that activities because you're informing people who might have nefarious intent. But here, it was, it was clear for everyone to see that there was a significant number of issues and problems.
- CWChris Williamson
Whose responsibility, who does the buck ultimately stop with when we're talking about this? Homeland Security, Secret Service, local law enforcement?
- MBMike Baker
Well, I think what you're gonna find likely is, first of all, in terms of who has primacy on the ground, it's the Secret Service, right? So they established a security perimeter, and then according to at least early reports and what, what Secret Service is saying is then they designated local law enforcement as having control outside that designated security zone, which included the building where the shooter, uh, took up position. But that's, you know, ultimately it's the Secret Service's responsibility. So they should have obviously said, "Okay, so what are you doing in relation to those buildings that have line of sight?" And if local law enforcement said, "Well, we've got a, we've got a couple of unarmed officers that are patrolling the ground" (laughs) and, you know, interacting with the attendees out on the ground, then you'd say, "Okay, well how about you give me a state trooper or one of your local officers up on that rooftop and that one over there?" Any building, right? Uh, that's got line of sight. Uh, and you post somebody up there, just cover it down. That's Secret Service's ultimate responsibility, even if, you know, theoretically, okay, on paper this area over here is under the control of local au- authorities. So there is a procedural problem, there's a command and control problem, there's a communications problem during the course of this rally. I think you'll also find there was some, uh, command and control issues in terms of the ability for the sniper or the counter-sniper team on site, and they had a couple of them up there, um, to act, right? And there was probably, I don't know this, I'm speculating, right? But I'm speculating based on experience from past events that, you know, there may have been a lag time in getting the, you know, the go/no-go figured out in terms of taking a shot on the, on the target. Uh, there may have been problems at the top of Secret Service in terms of what did they allow for as a security package for former President Trump?
- CWChris Williamson
When you say that, you mean the, uh, number and quality of the people that were on the ground?
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. You've got a, you've kind of got a standard, you know, former president security package, uh, because they get coverage for life after they, they finish their, their time. And you could easily argue that perhaps the package for Trump, given that he's now the presumptive nominee for the November election, that clearly he, he draws a lot of heat from a lot of people.
- CWChris Williamson
Should have been beefed, should have been beefed up.
- MBMike Baker
Should have been beefed up. And look also, look, hey, hey, it was under the Trump administration when, you know, we tagged, uh, Soleimani, um, and the Iranians and their various proxies are still very upset about that. And we know that they've been looking at various opportunities to try to target individuals they feel responsible. So there were a variety of reasons why you could look and go, yeah, the package for, for, for former President Trump needs to be more robust than, say, what we would normally allocate. And so that may be, I don't know. I'm not saying it is, I'm just saying that may be an issue where now you've got more of a, of a, of a procedural problem with management, right?
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- MBMike Baker
Um, and then you've got the whole other issue of just general discourse. If you demonize somebody-... on either side and call them Hitler, um, fascist, you know, intent on destroying democracy, um, a- a- g- a threat to the nation, as President Biden's referred to him even the day before the shooting, um, you're probably, you know, inciting some irrational person who, you know, may not be able to process all that as hyperbole, right?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, and this is-
- MBMike Baker
And they're gonna take it literally.
- CWChris Williamson
This is a point that Tulsi Gabbard made, where she said that how can you expect someone to not try and stop Hitler if you keep calling him Hitler? Would you not go back in time and try and kill Hitler? And if literally Hit- there was a- a magazine that had him looking like the fu- a number of magazines that have had him-
- MBMike Baker
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
... basically in the same, um, poster style that Adolf Hitler did in the past. You know, how many more analogies do you need to draw? And it's one of these things where until the repercussions and the consequences of doing that become kinetic, everyone-
- MBMike Baker
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
... thinks that it's just a larp. "Well, Trump's bombastic. He's gregarious. He says crazy things. We need to push back with the same sort of technology that he uses, which is words and- and- and imagery." Uh, and then someone takes it up a notch.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, look, I mean, it's- it's- it's clear, and people always say, "Ah, it's whataboutism," but it's clear it's- it's a problem on both sides, right? On the- on the edges of both sides, there's all this rhetoric and hyperbole. So there's no doubt about that, but you're right. Look, if the New Republican, that was one of the magazines that had the- the- sort of this propaganda poster of- of Trump as Hitler, um, they're throwing these things out there, and I- I think rational people look at that and go, "Okay, well, man, that's over the top. It's rhetoric. It's hyperbole. I g- I get it. You guys are using this as a campaign strategy." But there are a lot of people out there who aren't gonna process it that way-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
... and disappear down these rabbit holes. So there's a- there's a lot of layers here. So when you say, "Who's responsible?" I, you know, it depends on at what altitude you are looking from.
- CWChris Williamson
Level of magnification you want to look at it from. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Where does the- where does the domino begin? One
- 8:16 – 15:37
Was There Less Secret Service Than Usual?
- CWChris Williamson
of the things that I did read was that there was a lot of Homeland Security contractors on site as opposed to Secret Service agents, that-
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... there was a more heavy reliance on local law enforcement than you would've done typically. I'm gonna guess that this is, uh, the package, the, uh, security detail-
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... package as you mentioned, uh, th- just being more diluted than it should be. You have some talent, and the- some of the talent, I guess, is questionable based on the video footage. Um-
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... but then you also have this sort of, uh, the outer regions which are maybe not even more as competent, and more of that was done by contractors, and more of that was done by local law enforcement than typical.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, look, the election season, any election season, right, but particularly now when everything's so heated and- and both sides have been lobbing hand grenades at each other for quite some time, it- it- it's- it's a difficult time for Secret Service, right? They're just, they're- they're stretched, you know, uh, thin because there's so much to do, and they, and their resources are working constantly. So yes, they draw on, but they typically draw on even, you know, when- when it's not an election season, they draw on local authorities. Uh, and there was a significant presence at the rally of, uh, Butler County, uh, police. And, um, you know, there's gonna be some other issues about, you know, there was an encounter between one of those police officers who, you know, attempted to go up and interact with the shooter and then, you know, um, didn't, when the shooter pointed a gun at him. Uh, and then, you know, the- the- the firing started shortly thereafter. But-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- MBMike Baker
... look, there's a real breakdown there, right? Because, um, you've got a moment where obviously this guy has enough time to go to the building, try to get up to the top of the building to interact. Where are the comms with the, with the, you know, counter-sniper team saying, "We, I'm going up on the top of the building to interact with somebody who apparently has a weapon because lots of people on the ground saw him and alerted the authorities"?
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- MBMike Baker
So there's- there's, again, it l- a- as I mentioned, it's- it's never just one thing. It's a series of- of problems usually that contribute to a security breakdown.
- CWChris Williamson
It's interesting. I- I- I get what you mean about, uh, during an election cycle, there's more people, more places, more checks need to be done. But it's not like you don't know this.
- MBMike Baker
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
You know reliably it's going to happen in four years' time and four years after that and four years after that. So all of this could've been prepared for in advance, whether it's training, whether it's recruitment, whether it's wha- whatever you need in terms of staffing. I remember reading not so long ago as well after Trump's indictment, conviction, whatever it is, uh, that there'd been some suggestion to completely rescind the security detail from him, or at the very least to dial it back as some kind of recompense that he needed to pay for now being a felon.
- MBMike Baker
Exact- (laughs) exactly. Yeah, that was- that was a move in- in Congress by, uh, uh, I think it was, uh, Congressman, uh, Jeffries maybe. I'm- I've- I've- I don't want to get caught with the wrong name. But, um, one or a handful had, I think, kind of floated the idea that, well, probably s- uh, somebody who's been convicted shouldn't have Secret Service protection. It's an asinine idea. I mean, it was a completely asinine idea because he's still the former president, and he's still the presumptive nominee. But they were trying to score some political points, right? And that's- that's been part of the problem. You get, you're getting a lot of dysfunctional and irrational behavior because, um, you know, the, an element within the Democrat Party has this- this, uh, I- I don't even how to describe that, the- the hatred for Trump. But then-
- CWChris Williamson
Vitriol, yeah.
- MBMike Baker
... again, on the- on the right side, on the extreme right, you've, obviously you've got the same sort of rhetoric that goes and- and- and demonizes the Democrats and Biden and all this. It just, it, uh, it- it's not a, it's not a good place for the nation to be obviously, given what can happen and what we saw happen on Saturday.
- CWChris Williamson
It's I th- at least at the moment a little bit asymmetric that only one side has control over how much protection an ex-president gets. And, uh, you know, it's so-
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm. Yep, true.
- CWChris Williamson
... it just seems to me, it- it- it seems to me like the...... amount of protection should be proportionate to the potential threat. And, you know, regardless of whether you like or don't like Trump, he's a pretty big target. I mean, you know-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... you, you, you don't need to do much to Biden to cause him to fall over but, you know, Trump's a, a, a much (laughs) much larger target.
- MBMike Baker
(laughs) Yeah, bro. Okay, I'm gonna let that one go. Um, but, uh, yeah, d- no, you're not, you're not wrong. Uh, and that's why you do, uh, risk and threat assessments on a constant basis, right? Because the risks, the threats, they change. Um, they can increase, they can decrease, and you're always doing that, whether you're talking about executive protection, um, you know, for a political candidate, whether you're talking about, you know, what sort of level of protection you provide to a facility or it, it doesn't matter. So you're absolutely right, and they should have been looking at this. Now they, they did say that they, there, there has been some comment that the Secret Service did, uh, heavy up the, uh, the security package to some degree back in June, I believe, for, for Trump. Um, but it's only now that they've, um, approved, uh, Secret Service protection for Robert F. Kennedy, right? And-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
... you know, that's an indication-
- CWChris Williamson
Right.
- MBMike Baker
... that really what the Democrats wanted was they just wanted him to go away. They didn't want (laughs) ... They almost didn't want to acknowledge that Kennedy was a, a candidate out there.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, dude, so I've been to... I went to dinner with an R- with RFK at a friend's house maybe about a year ago, then I went to a, a rally thing of his in Austin about six months ago, and then-
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm.
- 15:37 – 21:33
What an Internal Investigation Would Look Like
- MBMike Baker
- CWChris Williamson
What will the process from here internally be to investigate? I imagine it's just going to be a fucking nightmare to try and work out who's culpable, what happened, how is this going to occur, whilst also doing the investigation which requires resources from the very thing that you're trying to now beef up given the failure that just occurred during a time when you need them more than ever, but also their time is trying to be split working out what the fuck happened.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. Well, th- yeah, and you raise a really good point, and that's where, that's where a Congressional investigation can really kinda muck up the works, get in the way, because you know, they, you know, they, they get out there and they start sucking up oxygen that really needs to be spent e- you know, doing operations. But, uh, look, it's important, uh, right after, after this go rope, um, you know, internally Secret Service was doing a hot wash, um-
- CWChris Williamson
What does this mean? Stop using these words. What do you mean? (laughs)
- MBMike Baker
Well, yeah, I mean, they were j- they were basically just, uh, doing a, a after-action review of, you know, what happened immediately in the aftermath of this thing, um, but there's a lot of moving parts as you pointed out. Look, it's, there's DHS personnel, there's the local law enforcement. Um, it's not a good sign that so soon after this event there's already some finger-pointing going on, um, saying, "Well, that was their zone, uh, not ours," and Butler County saying, "Well, that's, you know, doesn't matter. Secret Service has primacy so they should, you know, be telling us what to do in a sense." So that's not necessarily a good indication, uh, but, you know, I think this thing has got to play out in, uh, in public, i- in part because, you know, government agencies, whether it's the Secret Service or the Bureau or the CIA, whatever, they, you know, they- they've lost a lot of credibility, um, which is kind of a painful thing to admit, um, but they've lost a lot of credibility over the recent past. And so, you know, one of those things, one of those ways I think you build back some level of trust is to be more transparent. And, and again, they don't have anything to lose because everybody was watching-
- CWChris Williamson
They're starting at zero.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. They're starting (laughs) ... Well, I meant, I meant because everybody was watching, they can afford to be more transparent, but, but okay, I take your point, yeah. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, so, y- you know, going into the rest of this year, do you think these sorts of threats are over, or are there more serious risks to come as we get toward the presidential election?
- MBMike Baker
Uh, well, the, the, the threat's not over, for sure. You know, um, that never goes away, right? You never get this down to, to zero. That's not how the game is played. So they have to approach every event, whether it's the RNC happening outside or whether it's, um, any other campaign rally, uh, the DNC which will be taking place in Chicago, uh, they've got to approach every event in the same fashion, right? And yes, there'll be more...... um, under the spotlight, you know, from the public and, and from, you know, their own agencies and the various people involved. But ... And that's a good thing, right? It, it kinda refocuses the mind, um ... You know, I'm not saying that the event on Saturday was a good thing, I'm just saying that it's going to... One of the, uh, one of the, one of the end results will be everyone's gonna be a little bit more on their game, um, because they're gonna be reminded in a very terrible way what's at stake. They ... You could argue they shouldn't have to be (laughs) reminded, but, you know, you do these events and you do these events. And the thing about executive protection is it can be a grind. Mentally, it can be a real grind, right?
- CWChris Williamson
Why?
- MBMike Baker
Well, you're, you're standing out- outside a door, you know, t- uh, Secret Service details, there's a lot of hurry up and wait, you know. It's, it can be kinda mind-numbing in a way, right? There's ... You know, and then you got a movement, "Okay, fine, now I gotta go do another advance, and I'm doing the advance." And there's, there's a lotta routine, a lotta, uh, you know, rote, which, (sighs) you know, can, it can be a bit ... Again, it can be a bit mind-numbing. Um-
- CWChris Williamson
Which inevitably-
- MBMike Baker
Yup.
- CWChris Williamson
... causes people to pay less attention, which then allows small-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... errors to, to kick up. Yeah, I was speaking to, uh, Tim Kennedy. I got him to break down the body language of the-
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... uh, counter-sniper-
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... uh, from the Secret Service that was on the roof. And he's, uh, you know, looking, he's coming up off his glass, he's going back down, then he flinches, and then he goes back down again. And, you know, he, uh, Tim's assessment was he thought that was a person who'd never been in a firefight before, um, that that was someone who potentially hadn't seen combat action.
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
But another thing to consider is that this isn't training. You haven't just rocked up, ca-
- MBMike Baker
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
... full of caffeine, you know, on the range, with your buddy, that's your spotter, and "I know when I'm going to need to shoot." You've been there for, uh, how many hours? Sat up there doing this thing, you know, that sort of endurance, um, and as it continues to go on. But again, that, uh ... It seems to me that all of that can be fixed just by more volume and higher-quality personnel. You know, if you've got someone that's doing the night shift, don't make them do the day shift.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
You know, con- have sufficient resources that you don't need to, to drain everyone like that.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. You've gotta have, you've gotta have sufficient staffing. And, and, you know, again talking about how m- much of a grind it can be, uh, it's not the sort of business where you can just, you know, you know, just, just work through people until they're exhausted, right? You've got, people have to be at a, at an optimum level, um, all the time. And so that requires you to be able to work through a number of shifts, uh, of rotations, and so you have to have those resources. But look, I ... Uh, and, and, and training, you know, you've gotta, you've gotta have constant training, um, and, and that costs money and time. And so sometimes those things get kicked aside. I don't, I'm not saying they did, I'm just saying that, you know, sometimes in, in, in the world of government, you know, certain things can be pushed aside in, in favor of other things that aren't really as operationally beneficial. So-
- 21:33 – 26:33
Will Anyone Get Fired From This?
- MBMike Baker
- CWChris Williamson
How likely do you think it is that the heads of Homeland Security or the Secret Service are going to end up getting fired or disciplined for this?
- MBMike Baker
Well, I don't think DHS, uh ... Mayorkas, I don't think, isn't going (laughs) anywhere. He's, he seems to be, uh, you know, coated in Teflon, um, because, you know, you could argue he should've been fired for the, you know, for the, the lack of management of the US southern border for the past three years. But I don't think he's going anywhere. Uh, Kimberly Cheatle over at, at, uh, Secret Service, look, she, you know, she's been there, m- what, almost 30 years, maybe longer? She was, you know, an agent and a supervising agent for 27 years, finished up then went to, I, I forget, uh, Pepsi, I think, where she was global security director, and then she got called in. She had worked on Vice President Biden's detail years and years ago, and so that ... And who knows? Maybe that was part of the connection, but she came back in to run the Secret Service. Is she gonna be kicked out? I don't think so. Um, Washington, DC is not typically a place where people get fired. Um-
- CWChris Williamson
Why, why is that? Just nepotism and people know people and people know things and "You scratch my back"?
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, I think, you know ... Look, uh, you know, people, people get reassigned at lower levels, you know, if, if there's, if, if things go sideways. Um, typically, you know that, that shit rolls downhill. And, uh, so you may get, you know, mid-level officers or agents, you know, they get reassigned or put on ice. But typically people don't ... You know, at higher levels, you know, they're not expected to pay the price. Uh, I don't know why. Uh, but it's a little bit like, um, it's a little bit like this problem with, with the civil discourse and people talking about how we have to turn the temperature down, right? Well, that requires self-awareness, and it requires a willingness to accept some responsibility for where we got to now, right? Because they were part of the problem. But I don't think politicians necessarily, um, or political appointees tend to be, you know, loaded for bear with self-awareness or willingness to accept responsibility.
- CWChris Williamson
What do you think happens to the political discourse moving forward from here? How do you think it changes or doesn't?
- MBMike Baker
(laughs) Uh, I think give it another, uh, m- I don't know, 15 minutes, um, and we're gonna be right back, we're gonna revert to the mean. I don't ... I, I, I have no doubt, uh, that the- there, there will be a, a short period of time, uh, including, I, I think including Trump's, uh, nominating speech at the RNC. I think, you know, that's going to be more, uh, dialed back than people would imagine f- coming from Trump, but I don't-
- CWChris Williamson
He said that he re- he wrote a, a brand new one for it.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, yeah, and I'm sure he did. Uh, look, he's got ... Look, it's you, you ... I don't think you can go through that, an experience like that, uh, and not have some moment of reflection, right? Um, now whether it lasts, whether he can change his stripes, I don't know, whether the Democrats can change their stripes, who knows? You know, look, they've, they ran a campaign based on Trump is a fascist and he's gonna destroy democracy, and it was working for them.... right? It was energizing at least their, their base and, and I think they felt like that's the narrative they were gonna run with for the next few months. I don't think, I don't think either side's really going to dial it back significantly for any period of time. So yes, there'll be this, there'll be a moment, but then I think everyone's gonna kind of revert back to the normal, jump back in their trenches and, you know, we'll be right back to that.
- CWChris Williamson
Biden said, or at least the Dems said that they'd turned off their campaign ads for a little while, sort of a show of, a mark of respect. I imagine that if you'd kept running those, there'd be some in there that are absolutely tone-deaf for a guy that just got shot.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, but yet there is a big question. Can you say that Trump is Hitler one day and then the next day wish him well, given that he was just shot?
- MBMike Baker
(laughs) Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
It does seem-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. I know, I know. Uh, he's Hitler, but-
- CWChris Williamson
Fortuitous blowing with the wind.
- MBMike Baker
Thank God he was only grazed. Um, yeah, I, it's, it's a, it's a, yeah, it's a really good question, but I think what they're counting on is the attention span of the, uh, uh, of Americans maybe. Um, you know, everybody's so busy just trying to get by and feed their families and do their work and kind of whatever, and they're all staring at TikTok anyway. Um, so, yeah, I, I think they honestly think, "Yeah, sure, we can, we can get away with this incredible pivot from he's going to terminate the Constitution and, and take away all your rights and he's, you know, the biggest threat to the nation," and, and then turn around and go, "Well, we sure... I talked to Donald and I told him I was your-"
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- MBMike Baker
"... and, you know, so." I, I, but I think they feel like, you know, they can get away with it because they've done it, so, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Fucking hell. Yeah, yeah, selective amnesia of the entire populous. So, uh,
- 26:33 – 34:42
The Crucial Role That X Played
- CWChris Williamson
yeah, I'm, I'm glad that you brought up TikTok, your favorite, uh, topic of discussion. I... This is the first time that I've observed... Actually, I didn't even do this with January 6th 'cause with January 6th, I actually watched mostly Fox News, CNN coverage. I was watching things be streamed live.
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, but on Saturday, this happened just as I was going to dinner here in Montana, and I, for the first time, realized just how important X, Twitter, is as a social media. It was a genuine utility for everybody that wanted to know what was going on, and I wasn't... I- I'm not going to Facebook to find out this information.
- MBMike Baker
Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
I'm not going to TikTok to find out this information. I'm not going to Instagram to find out this information. I'm not going to the mainstream media to find out this information, like mostly peaceful but fiery assassination attempt from CNN or whatever (laughs) the headline was.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Um-
- MBMike Baker
There were some headlines, there were some headlines that he was pulled from the rally because he fell down. And, uh-
- CWChris Williamson
"Secret Service Interrupts Trump Rally."
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and, or there was, there was a New York Times, uh, article just today that said, you know, that referred to the, the assassination attempt as, uh, that somebody shot at the President during a rally. And you think, okay, so, so I, I, I agree with you, uh, you know, uh, I think X has kind of proven its, its, its usefulness in this-
- CWChris Williamson
Agreed.
- MBMike Baker
... event over the weekend. Yeah, I was, I was, uh, I, I spent probably more time monitoring what was happening there than I think pretty much anything else. Al- although I was perf-
- CWChris Williamson
Me too.
- MBMike Baker
... I was perfecting a new TikTok dance, so I had to-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- MBMike Baker
That wasn't easy, but it's gonna be a hit.
- CWChris Williamson
I'll tell you what else I didn't see much of. Um, I didn't see much sort of crazy misinformation, uh, wild accusations. I haven't seen much that people have really needed to roll back. Now, uh, is that the, um, is that the benefit of the platform or is that simply just because of what users were talking about? Um, you know, you, you, you can't promote a tweet which lies about something that somebody doesn't actually post. You can only actually promulgate whatever messages people say.
- MBMike Baker
That's fair.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, but yeah, I was, I was really impressed. I was looking at X and going, "Holy fuck. Like, we need this thing." And I've not, I've, I've not had that sense really before. It's just like, oh, it's, you know, if you've got Truth Social on one side and you've got X kind of more toward the middle and then you've got Threads on the other side, you know, it's just, it's just another one of these. But it, yeah, it made me think, uh, differently, I think.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. I think the cr- it, it, it takes a little while for the crazy to come out, right? So I have seen some conspiracy theories that, you know, this was an inside job, you know, and, and, uh, you know, and then, of course, all the, all the, you know, the, sort of the armchair executive protection specialists, you know, talking about exactly, you know, how, what went wrong five minutes after the event, right? Are they... Okay, well, at least, let the dust settle a little bit-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
... um, before sorting-
- CWChris Williamson
Let's mop the blood up off the, off the stage canvas before you-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, might be, might be good. But no, the, the, the, look, the, the imagery was amazing. Um, the like him or hate him, right, and there's a lot of people on both sides of that for Trump, but you have to, you have to think, "Good God," right? I mean, he, the, the fact that he stood up, had the wherewithal to kind of like face the crowd, you know, give them that indication that he was fine, that he was, you know... I mean, that's, those instincts, right, you can't teach that, right? That's, that's, uh, kind of in there somewhere and, and so I think that was, that was amazing, right? Again, people who hate him are gonna say it was terrible. He shouldn't have like shook his fist at... I did hear CNN was upset with him 'cause he shook his fist at the crowd and said, "Fight," and they were like, "Well, that seems inappropriate."
- CWChris Williamson
He's stoking, he's stoking a wartime rhetoric.
- MBMike Baker
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
He just got shot.
- MBMike Baker
He just got shot.
- CWChris Williamson
He just got shot.
- MBMike Baker
They're upset because he's like shaking his fist and he's, he's and then they're like, "Well, that's, that's, that's not approp- appropriate."
- 34:42 – 39:03
Will People View Trump More Favourably?
- CWChris Williamson
to me about what you think this does to Trump's image among the American populous. How do you think that this incident changes it, if, if at all?
- MBMike Baker
Well, I, I don't know that it, uh... Look, I, I, I think it, I think it will make a difference with some who were undecided. Not necess- I'm not talking necessarily about, you know, uh, independents and moderates who are focused on politics, but I think those people who, you know, maybe don't spend a lot of time thinking about politics, but were still kind of undecided-
- CWChris Williamson
Maybe, maybe unregistered or-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, maybe unregistered-
- CWChris Williamson
... not unregi- like, "I wasn't, I wasn't sure if I was gonna vote at all."
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. I, I think that that... And it, and part of that will be that contrast between this guy standing up after he's shot (laughs) and what they saw during that debate if they happened to see clips or they watched some of the debate. I think that contrast will influence a certain group. Um, I think if he can, if he can... I don't, I don't know if statesman's the right word, but (laughs) I think if he can be more moderate then, and speak to the issues and just stay there, then I think that can influence those moderates and independents perhaps that, that are a little more focused on politics and did abandoned, uh, or abandoned the c- the campaign the last time around. So I think it can have an impact. Uh, look, uh, the Democrats, you know, they must be amazed right now, right? Because all that conversation about Biden, that's, that's nowhere to be found, right? That's done.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- MBMike Baker
At least for now. People are not talking about Biden. They're not talking about his feebleness, his mental acuity, is he still fit to serve.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- MBMike Baker
And so I think the White House is, if anything has taken a breath in going, "Oh, thank God."
- CWChris Williamson
I, I, I'm not sure there. So I th- I think that... Uh, I get what you mean. The, it's a good day for bad news or it's a good day to be senile, I suppose. Um, but the problem is that this recent shooting, assassination attempt, is framed against the, uh, foundation that we already had. Everyone still already has that-
- MBMike Baker
Hm.
- CWChris Williamson
... in the back of their mind.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
We know the fragility that we've seen of the existing president, the fact that he doesn't have that sort of gusto and that get up that, that we want to show from a, uh, a leader up against China or up against Russia, et cetera.
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, and then you have this... Even if you're not looking at it anymore, it's like just being in a cold bath and getting into a hot one. You're like-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... "Holy fuck, this is different." So I th- I, I do think that that's going to be there. I also agree. I think the more-... Mature and, uh, standoffish that the Republicans can be when it comes to messaging around this. I think that's going to benefit them more. For the first time ever, this is one of my- uh, George, who I'm traveling with at the moment, told me this yesterday, for the first time ever, Trump has a victim card. He's never had a victim card before. Uh, Trump has- that's- th- he has a fucking victim card.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
You know?
- MBMike Baker
Well, al- al- although I would argue that the- the base, right, his- his loyal, loyal supporters view him as- as the- the supreme victim, right? Just being victimized by lawfare-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- MBMike Baker
... and the- the Biden Administration, and so I think that group always looks at him in that regard, right?
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- MBMike Baker
You know, "Look what they're doing to him again." And-
- CWChris Williamson
And now he's been shot in the- in the ear.
- MBMike Baker
And now he's been shot, yeah. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, in the- in the fucking ear. Well, I- uh, so I- another interesting thing is how much damage does this incident do to the left's moral high ground around not being the violent ones?
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, I don't think they care. Uh, I think they just- they'll- they'll just- uh, I've never seen any awareness on their part that that could be an issue, right? It's just- it's sort of like that mostly peaceful Antifa riots and- and, you know, burnings and- and violence, I- I think that they just brush that aside. And so, I don't know that, um, they're worried about that idea. They all jumped on the notion, they were- they were- they were really wordsmithing, but they jumped on the notion in their statements about the, uh, assassination attempt that the shooter was a registered Republican (laughs) and, uh- uh, they, you know... And by the way, why do all these guys look the same? I don't- I don't understand.
- 39:03 – 44:51
Everything We Know About the Shooter
- CWChris Williamson
What- what do we-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... what- what do we know about the shooter?
- MBMike Baker
(sighs) You know, uh, what? 20 years old, from the- from the area, Bethel, Bethel Park in Pennsylvania. Um, y- you know, I've only heard a few comments from people who claim that they knew him in high school, and those are typical comments, quiet, loner-
- CWChris Williamson
Bullied.
- MBMike Baker
... bullied. Um, uh, you know, his dad purchased legally, legally apparently, the long gun that was used on Saturday by his kid, um, some six months ago. Um, and, you know, so there's not a lo- there's not a lot of information out there. It's interesting, the Bureau's got his- obviously, they got his electronic devices. They took his phone down to Quantico and, you know, once again, they're- they're, you know, struggling. It- according to reports, I don't know whether that's the case or not, but they say they're struggling to unlock it. Um, and...
- CWChris Williamson
The phone of a 20-year-old loner from Bethel-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... Green or whatever it is.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, so I think it's- it's, uh, you know, we'll- we'll get more detail, but that's one of those areas, right, where you have to be... I always hate to see people speculating about motives because that's one of the things in terms of an investigation regardless of what type of shooting event it is, that you really need to let the facts, you know, come to light before you start talking in- in earnest about, "Oh, I- you know, what the motivation of the shooter was."
- CWChris Williamson
So bizarre, man. I- there's definitely, I think, another discussion to be had around what is the training of local law enforcement. You know, we've had it before.
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
I- I was watching this documentary about, um, I- I- there's a name for them. What's the name for police officers that don't enter firefights even though they should do? It's like the- it's not coward or whatever. It's like there's a specific name for it, you know, like, uh, um, false valor or whatever. There's, like, an equivalent sort of name for it. But-
- MBMike Baker
Douchbag. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, just failing at duty.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And, uh, you know, th- I saw in this same, uh, documentary I was talking about that a lot of the police officers were saying that they spend more time in diversity meetings than they do with their firearm in their hand.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
That- yeah.
- MBMike Baker
Well, and that is true. I- when you look at the consistency of training, that's why that- you know, s- one of the things that could drive you crazy w- during that- the- sort of the height of the "defund the police" was really, uh, well, uh, y- you're just fucking stupid because if you want a better police force, a more responsive police force, a more responsible police force, you wanna actually give them more funds for training. That's where it all starts, right? So, part of the problem is, again, going back to something we talked about, uh, uh, earlier is that, you know, a lot of times when you hit budget cuts, training's one of the first things to go, and that can't be the case when you're talking about law enforcement. Right?
- CWChris Williamson
Especially not if you're gonna be a guy who goes up a ladder and sees a dude with a- a long gun and-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. And that- again, I- I- I- I- I am- I'm fascinated by the comms portion of this and- and the- the line of communication because there's a period of time there, right, where the attendees alert the local authorities, local authorities decide someone- you know, Bob's gotta go over there and investigate. While at the same time, all that communication should've been shared with the counter-sniper teams and command and control from the Secret Service, right? They should've been making decisions in real time. So if that person was going up a ladder on that building, they should've had him in their sights at that point, right? Now, maybe they didn't have line of sight on the- on the shooter. Maybe he, you know, he was out of range- uh, not out of range but out of sight.
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- MBMike Baker
And then he pops up and points his weapon at the- but that's the time to shoot him. As soon as that- uh, you know, I- so there's little steps here, but again, you know, is it fair for me without the investigation being done to make all these s- you know, statements? I don't know. I'm just speaking from, you know, from p- past experience on other events.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- MBMike Baker
But e- e- you know, we- they gotta let the investigation play out. It's just- it's such a- the event had such magnitude and such impact that it's natural, I get why people rush to make judgment or statements or talk about things. It makes sense.
- CWChris Williamson
Do you think that this stops Biden from stepping down because Trump now has a- a martyr vote?
- MBMike Baker
Y- well, I think, um... Yeah, that's, that's a... Yeah, that's a really interesting point. But I think it goes back to what I was saying when, uh, I was, I was trying to refer to the, the, the fact that the noise around Biden's situation has died down, uh, to no noise, right? So I think it does, uh, buy him significant time. And I think him coming out and saying, you know, "Look, we need to be civil. We need to think about how we talk about each other," and he's trying to be presidential. He's trying to show obviously, like with every event that he's had since the debate, that he's, he's up to the job. But I think it's making it more difficult, right, for the Democrats to continue to beat the drum. There were probably, prior to Saturday, there were probably more Democrats in Congress or in the Senate who were going to step out, you know, and say, "We think he needs to go," right? That, that was a building drumbeat. I think that i- it's more difficult now for them to do that because of the events of Saturday and because of the feeling like, "Okay, well maybe, you know, maybe we just gotta stick with Joe." Um...
- CWChris Williamson
Dude.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- 44:51 – 51:18
Mike’s Thoughts on JD Vance
- CWChris Williamson
talk to me about J.D. Vance.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, interesting. I guess not an, uh, unexpected choice. You know, they'd been banging on for a while saying it was either gonna be Vance or, or, uh, Burgum or, uh, Rubio. Um, and look, J.D. Vance is close to his, to Trump's son. They're very good friends. Uh, he's, he's an interesting cat, right? Has almost no poli-
- CWChris Williamson
I don't know anything about him. Explain to me who he is.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, he's got almost no political experience. Uh, he wrote, uh, that book, Hillbilly Elegy, which was a very interesting book. I mean, a very interesting book. Um, and, you know, they made a movie out of it, I think. But he's a political newcomer. Um, he's been a very, uh, staunch supporter of Trump. Out o- he's outta Ohio. Um, and, you know, of the candidates, I don't know that... If what you were saying was, "I want to, I wanna pick a candidate who can really help me win over, um, you know, uh, groups that I'm, I'm, I, I need to win," I don't know that J.D. Vance is that person because he's, he's already got his base, right? And so I think J.D. Vance kinda shares the same supporters. Uh, Rubio, you know, could have shown up, uh, showed up Florida. Obviously, you know, with the Hispanic vote as well would help. He's a much more seasoned politician. Uh, Burgum is, you know, he's, he's a good friend of Trump's. He's, he's got, you know, very good political instincts, business instincts. Um, Nikki Haley was hanging out there, and I gotta tell you, if you wanted the moderates or you wanted the independent voters, um, y- you could argue f- Nikki Haley could have been a terrific choice, except they got, you know, they were so sideways with each other during the, the primary.
- CWChris Williamson
What do you think... Do you think there's any chance that Trump changed his VP pick post-Saturday?
- MBMike Baker
Oh, that's interesting. Uh, n- no, probably not. I think, I think the, the, the, the-
- CWChris Williamson
Wheels are in motion two months earlier.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, I think the factor that would have changed his decision possibly would have been if Biden had stepped out, um-
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- MBMike Baker
... and had pulled himself out. That, that may have re- recalibrated the thinking perhaps, uh, over the VP pick, but I, I don't think Saturday. I think at that point he, he, you know, he just, he went with Vance, um, and didn't change his mind. Uh-
- CWChris Williamson
I, I was in a, I'm in a group chat with a bunch of different people here. Uh, one of them saying, uh, "Thiel hired him at his VC firm Mithril, uh, also endorsed his Senate campaign with the biggest individual donation ever for a Senate campaign of $15 million. Very happy with Vance. Super smart, competent veteran, Rust Belt, blue-collar orientation. Also, and sad that this is the case, he provides assassination insurance."
- MBMike Baker
(laughs) Yeah, well, look, I mean, Trump had been saying that, right? He said, you know, his, his decision over who to pick would be, you know, if something bad happens, are they ready to step in. But okay, to be fair, uh, you know, every presidential nominee says that, "I want my VP pick to be ready on day one." Um, and look, I, I like, I like Vance in the sense that he's, he's unique, right? He's not a, he's not a 110-year politician, right? And, uh, that's not a bad thing at all. And I like the fact that he's a veteran. That's a very good thing. Um, so I'm, I'm just saying it's an interesting choice in the sense that I don't know that it expands the voting block necessarily for the campaign because it's drawing from the same kinda block-
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- MBMike Baker
... as opposed to maybe one of the other picks, but then again, you know, you want somebody that you can, you know, be simpatico with, and Vance has been a staunch supporter.
- CWChris Williamson
Nikki, Nikki Haley might have just been a fucking nightmare from behind the scenes from day one.
- MBMike Baker
Y- well, I think it would have been (laughs) it would have been a very interesting dynamic.
- CWChris Williamson
Rusty.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, yeah, I think that's, uh, that's the case, and maybe Rubio, you know, was a bit of the same way, you know. Maybe there was some, you know, concern over past, you know, you know, uh-... punches they'd thrown at each other, so who knows? Uh, uh, uh, at the end of the day, does it, does it matter all that much? I, I don't know that a VP pick matters all that much. Look, if, if Biden stays in, um, you know, I, I think the, the, the key has got to be saying, "Look, you're, you're not running against Biden. You're running against, you know, President Harris," because I don't think anybody in their right mind believes that Biden, you know, makes it through four years if he wins. So a, a vote for Biden is a vote for Kamala Harris, and you're willing to say that Kamala Harris, you know, is, is (laughs) could be the leader of the free world.
- CWChris Williamson
Jesus fucking Christ.
- MBMike Baker
And I can't even say that with a straight face.
- CWChris Williamson
I mean, that's, that's more terrifying than the president getting shot, or the presidential candidate being shot in the ear. Uh, I s- I've seen this map, the election map of when Reagan got shot afterward, and you've got red, red, red, red, red, red, red, red, red, and then this one blue dot that remained up at the top. How likely or how unlikely is that to be the case given the sort of never die, never Trump, et cetera, kind of, even after all of this? You, you've basically got the ultimate one-two punch, like jab in the face, Biden's completely incompetent. Punch, the other guy is totally competent and can literally get shot and stand up 15 seconds later.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, uh, uh, it ... But that's just ... Surely there's no way that we can see a, a huge red sweep in the same way.
- MBMike Baker
No.
- CWChris Williamson
Because people are just so, uh, passionate about hating Trump.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. Yeah. It's that's it's a different, it's a, i- i- it's a different situation. You can't ... It's apples and oranges when you're talking about what happened with Reagan, I think, and, and so, look, there's no way he's gonna run the table or get anywhere close. It's gonna be a close race still, um, and I think that, you know, the, the, the jury's still out. Maybe, maybe when the noise dies down, right, and, you know, the election really heats up again and the rhetoric, you know, comes back kinda the way it was, that the Democrats, you know, start re-evaluating again, uh, Biden's, you know, uh, suitability. And, you know, so that could be, that could be the next big event in terms of the election season that we're, we're in the middle of.
- CWChris Williamson
Fucking
- 51:18 – 59:36
What World Leaders Had to Say
- CWChris Williamson
hell. Okay, so one other thing-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... that I really wanted to ask you, uh, one of your expertise, international relations.
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, first off, have any other world leaders of interest said anything that's interesting, and secondly, how do you think other countries, the China's, the Russia's, the Iran's of the world, how do you think they interpret the ease with which a 20-year-old-
- MBMike Baker
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... bullied kid with bad hair was able to shoot the president's ear off?
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. Well, I think the, I think the jihadists are looking at it and going, "What? That's it? That's all they asked-"
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- MBMike Baker
"... wanted me to do was climb up on a damn shed?" Um, yeah. So I think that they're looking at it from a security breakdown and thinking, "Oh my God, maybe we've been overthinking this." Right? Um ...
- CWChris Williamson
Gave them too much credit.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. And so, uh, the, but the, look, the Chinese regime has always, Xi Jinping and, and the Foreign Ministry, they, you know, they were very muted in their response, uh, after the assassination attempt, and, you know, they, you know, wished, wished him well. Um, but they, they tend to, you know, try to be seen as not wading in because they don't want anybody stepping in their business. Um, European leaders said exactly what you would imagine. You know, everybody was condemning the political violence. Um, there was, weren't really many, um, mm, I'm trying to think. Slovakia, Robert Fico, you know, he made a couple of interesting comments (laughs) 'cause he had been, you know, the, uh, they'd tried to assassinate him not that long ago. Shot him, I think, four times. Um, so he, uh, he alluded to the idea that, you know, the, the rhetoric from the opposition party, you know, probably played a role.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- MBMike Baker
But there, there, there was pretty much just what you would expect. You know, condemnation of, of political violence from, from world leaders, y- you know, UK, uh, Keir Starmer, the new prime minister, he came in and weighed in very quickly. Um, and, and so that makes sense. It's ... You wouldn't expect anything different. Um, the, I think Russian-
- CWChris Williamson
Did, do you think that-
- MBMike Baker
... Russian, uh, I, I'm trying to remember what, what they, they, they didn't really say much. I think, uh, Peskov, the spokesperson for the Kremlin made a, made an off-handed comment, um, but, you know, basically it was-
- CWChris Williamson
Is it-
- MBMike Baker
... not that interesting.
- CWChris Williamson
Is it another, another advertisement of America's infighting, operational poor management, the fact that one party that's kind of in charge of the protection detail for the other party isn't capable of e- s- stopping this? It's, it's more sort of America falling flat on its face on the world stage only recently after the guy that's in charge couldn't string a sentence together?
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. It was interesting. I mean, I, uh, uh, speaking of that, you know, the, the White House, during the NATO summit, which was just, you know, concluded last week, um, uh, John Kirby was, was asked, and he said, "Look, I, you know, the, nobody in NATO questions, uh, Biden's abilities," right? "We don't have to justify Biden to anybody. They all, you know, firmly believe..." Well, what else are the NATO leaders gonna say, you know? I mean, they, you know... But it was, it was interesting that, that even at that point when it was clear that there were some issues, um, the White House was still trying to portray Biden as, as, you know, being on top of his game and sharp as a tack and all the other ... Look, I, uh, again, we're all getting older, right? You know, you, me, everybody, we're all getting older. We all age differently, right? It's not age, it's mental acuity. And we've all got elderly parents. We've all got elderly grandparents. We all know what it looks like. So, um, I think the problem the White House has, even during this moment when that talk has died down, is that people understand that process, right? And they know what it looks like 'cause they've seen it or they've had to deal with it directly. So I don't know ultimately that they're gonna be able to hold the line and keep him in there, uh-But, frankly, Kamala Harris and John Kirby and Karine Jean-Pierre and, you know, everybody in his little circle and his family, um, they've kind of been lying to the American public, um, for quite some time now and trying to cover up what's been happening, despite the fact that we've been seeing bits and pieces of it. But that's why he hasn't been out there, right?
- CWChris Williamson
What was it called? What was it called when you, when you take videos out of context? What was that? There was a name for it.
- MBMike Baker
Oh, a cheap fake.
- CWChris Williamson
Cheap fake.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, that's what... How they were referring to it. It was a, it was a cheap fake, uh, e- every time that there was a reference to it, or that we were just... And the media, for the most part, were willing to cover it up as well.
- CWChris Williamson
Fucking complicit, dude. Fucking complicit. Did you read, I think it was Ben Usher, he wrote an article called Common Knowledge?
- MBMike Baker
I didn't read that, no. Mm-mm.
- CWChris Williamson
I'll send it to you. I'll send it to you afterwards.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, please.
- CWChris Williamson
So th- basically, the, the break... It's fucking phenomenal. It's so good. And, uh, it basically says that it's not enough for you to know a thing. You need to know that other people know that thing too. So for instance, it's not enough for you to know that Biden... It's the emperor's new clothes.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- 59:36 – 1:06:59
Should Trump Hire Private Security?
- CWChris Williamson
just rounding out the conversation on security-
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... does Tim Kennedy or Erik Prince need to be called in? Do you, do you go private security to, uh, bolster, uh, Trump's security detail, or maybe, maybe other people's security details?
- MBMike Baker
No. No. I think, look, I'd, I'd, you know... I was out in... We had a large operation out in Iraq, um, early days of Iraq, right? I'm talking '03, '04, '05, '06. I mean... And, uh, you know, we were... We had a large private security operation out there, and, and, um, uh, that's a, that's a, that's a war zone, so it's a little bit different. But when we're talking about augmenting Secret Service with, you know, private security, I, I, I, I, I don't think so. I think, look, they-
- CWChris Williamson
What are the challenges that you face when you try to augment Secret Service with, with private guys?
- MBMike Baker
Uh, you kn-
- CWChris Williamson
Hierarchy? Power?
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, you're just, you're just layering on potential communications and command and control issues, and, and I just think it's... And it's also, um... I think... Look, the Secret Service, uh, they're staffed with some great people, right? We always have to be careful about... You know, there's, there's this tendency to say, "Oh, they're all screwed. Dismantle it." Do you know? That's it. There's that cry about, "You gotta get rid of the Bureau and get rid of the agency," and do all these things. And I'm thinking, really? That's, that's (laughs) that's your take on this? Um, how about just f- fixing problems? And, uh, so the Secret Service, uh, augmented by, uh, local and state, uh, you know, law enforcement, uh, they can do the job. They've been doing the job, right? Um-You know, part of this is th- y- they've got to, they've got to be transparent again. They've gotta come out and say, "These are the steps that, that occurred." And, and-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- MBMike Baker
... some of them won't surprise us because we all watched, right? Um, but they've gotta be very clear about what those steps are, and they've gotta be very clear about how they intend to not have it happen again, right? And that's gonna require some people taking responsibility, and that's where I think that can be a problem. Because you have to make people at the top take responsibility and maybe suffer some consequences, as opposed to just saying, you know, the officer on the ground who failed to communicate in real time what he was about to do by going up on that building, you know, that's the guy who's, you can all blame.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. I- I have had it in my head since Saturday, I wonder whether there is a level of negligence you reach where it almost becomes complicity.
- MBMike Baker
(inhales sharply) Well, I don't, I don't think it's complicity. It could be, um, what's the word I'm looking for? Complacency, you know, maybe at, at times. Um, well, you know-
- CWChris Williamson
I think, you know, it just, the, the, the reason that I brought up the private security thing is I saw that trailer saying, "30% of Secret Service staff are going to be female by 2030."
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
I, I spoke to Tim, and Tim explained to me that the mile time for guys versus girls to run is different. The weight load that you need to be able to lift is different.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
The height, all of the rest of the stuff. You know, you saw a, a woman who was, he came up, she came up to Trump's nipple, maybe? You know, we got this big guy, got this big dude, and this, like, little woman in front. Really? That's where he decided, that's where he decided to go as far as the height measurement was the nipple? (laughs) Yeah, the nipple. I think that's precisely where she, that's precisely where she got to.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And, um, you know, I, I want-
- MBMike Baker
No, I, I know what you mean. And then, you know, there were, you had a, you had an agent, you know, kind of fumble fucking with their weapon, trying to re-hol, you know, holster it.
- CWChris Williamson
That was the same one who used Trump, hid behind Trump like this, like sort of in-
- MBMike Baker
So-
- CWChris Williamson
... that kind of like, uh, t- for the fucking, the gu- woman in the kitchen from Tom and Jerry, like, "Ew."
- MBMike Baker
(laughs) Yeah, that's a great cultural pull right there.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, you haven't thought about that for a while, have you?
- MBMike Baker
These kids right now are looking up-
- CWChris Williamson
Have you?
- MBMike Baker
... Tom and Jerry.
- CWChris Williamson
Fuck, yeah.
- MBMike Baker
Uh, look, I, I-
- 1:06:59 – 1:11:17
How “That Photo” of Trump Was Taken on Saturday
- CWChris Williamson
awesome, awesome video that you can get a hold of. So, uh, Evan, the guy that took the photo, um-
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... he is a Brazilian jiu-jitsu guy, looks an awful lot like a Navy SEAL. Like mass-
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
He looks like, he looks like a young Jocko Willink. Hard fucking dude.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And, um, if you watch the video, there's a panned-out version of the stage. And-... those shots start firing. He doesn't stop and cower. He starts strafing across the front of the stage to get those shots. There's two-
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... guys that get them. Really interesting video that you can find, um, which was shot on a pair of Ray-Ban Meta glasses. So I've, I've got a pair of those too.
- MBMike Baker
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
So it's a pair of sunglasses-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... that you wear, and they've got two little lenses on either side, and they can shoot up to about a minute of video in very high quality, and the color representation is really good. And this guy... So Evan's the guy that took the photo, the photos-
- MBMike Baker
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
... that are going around everywhere. There's another dude who presumably got very similarly good photos as that one.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, I think he's from the New York Times, I think. Yeah, Doug Mills maybe. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
So he... Yeah, it is Doug Mills. He had the foresight when he's round the back, he's round the back of the stage, and the video begins, but you can't remotely start those glasses. So he's had, uh, his, his camera like this, or whatever it is, like this-
- MBMike Baker
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
... and he's shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, and he's taken his hand off, pressed the button, held it, because you have to hold it if you want to take a video, and then gone back to that. And if you watch, I, I messaged Dean, the guy that'll edit this episode, you met him in, in Miami, my video guy.
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
I was asking him, "What is that dude..." Doug? "What's, what's that dude doing?" Because you actually see, from his glasses, you can see both of his hands, right? So he's got his-
- MBMike Baker
Hm.
- CWChris Williamson
... hands up like this and you're looking at this thing. And, um, he, uh, he's shooting a lot... This is during a firefight.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
These guys, it's so cool. I love seeing people who know their craft inside out doing something. And what's coolest about this isn't the sho- the shots that you get, it's the seamlessness with which he does it. So you can see that he's shooting and he can't frame up properly, so he takes his hand off the front of the, the camera, flips the screen down so that he can get a better look-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... and he's, uh, he's working on his, I think, either exposure or focus, whatever Dean said, and then, uh, he's checking, he's checking the screen. He's going like this. And Dean was like, "He's working about every one to tw- one and a half seconds, he's looking at the composition of his shot during this." So he's shooting, shooting, shooting, look. Shooting, shooting, shooting, looks. Shooting, shooting, shooting, shooting-
- MBMike Baker
Huh?
- CWChris Williamson
... and then burst, burst, burst, burst, burst. I was, I'm like, "That's one of the coolest parts of it." Unbelievable.
- MBMike Baker
You know what else? You know what else is amazing? If you watch right behind Trump, there's some lady, right? As soon as the shooting starts, literally the shooting starts, she puts up her phone. I- and she just, she's just in the audience, right? She's like w- first or second row behind Trump. So you gotta watch th- watch the videos that are out there and you'll see. She's got a... I think she's got a white case on her phone.
- 1:11:17 – 1:11:52
Where to Find Mike
- CWChris Williamson
you on. Uh, Mike Baker, ladies and gentlemen, MB Company man?
- MBMike Baker
MB Company man. Um, also, uh, the President's Daily Brief podcast. Look at me marketing right now. Just before we finish up, I'm putting that ........................ talk about that, but the President's Daily Brief podcast available on all podcast platforms, and we do a weekend TV show now called The Situation Report.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, you'll have a lot to talk about next weekend. Mate, I really appreciate you. Uh-
- MBMike Baker
Absolutely.
- CWChris Williamson
... stay safe at the RNC. If you enjoyed that episode, you will love a selection of the best clips from the podcast over the last couple of months, and it's available right here. Go on, give 'em a watch.
Episode duration: 1:11:53
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