Why Are We Glorifying Insanity? - Konstantin Kisin (4K)

1. 0:00 – 16:04

   How the Online World Rewards Victimhood

   1. CWChris Williamson0:00

      One of the things that we've spoken about privately that we haven't yet spoken about publicly is victimhood.

   2. KKKonstantin Kisin0:05

      Mm.

   3. CWChris Williamson0:05

      And James Cantor came on the show, he's a sex researcher, he gave me this really interesting quote I wanted you to react to. "Shifting from aiding victims to aiding everyone who claims victimhood has led to an awful lot of charlatanism. Shifting from doing good to looking good has led to an awful lot of virtue signaling. That interaction is now Western culture, at least online."

   4. KKKonstantin Kisin0:26

      Mm.

   5. CWChris Williamson0:26

      What do you think about that?

   6. KKKonstantin Kisin0:27

      I think it's true. And if you think about, you know, I believe people respond to incentives. That's fundamentally the driving force of all human behavior, we respond to incentives. If you incentivize victimhood, you're gonna get victims. Uh, and I think online is really the- the shift that happens because the online world rewards it, and it also allows people to fake victimhood in a way that in person you can't really. Like, if you see someone living in a massive house, you go, "Well, you may be a victim in some ways, but you're actually well taken care of here." But online, you can create any avatar you want, and that avatar can be projected onto the online space from a mansion. And that's kinda where we are.

   7. CWChris Williamson1:12

      Yeah. The fact that our opinions are more important than our deeds, and our words are scrutinized while our actions are done in private. You know, how many people have we seen over the last few years, Ellen DeGeneres, Lizzo, uh, who's that late night host that just got popped for apparently being a... Jimmy Fallon-

   8. KKKonstantin Kisin1:29

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CWChris Williamson1:29

      ... I think, uh, allegedly has... These people that outwardly are supposed to be champion for the underclass, like, "I'm supporting women of all sizes," or, "I'm supporting people that have different sexual orientations," or, "I do the whatever." Then you find out behind the scenes that they can't even treat a PA with dignity. And I know it- it seems to me like being someone who out front proselytizes about standing up for the- for the underclass is almost becoming a red flag to go, "I probably should scrutinize what's actually going on behind the scenes here."

   10. KKKonstantin Kisin2:06

       When I was a standup comedian, in the comedy world there's a golden rule of this: The more a comedian talks about how he's a male feminist on stage, the sleazier he is backstage. That's- it's like a golden rule, never fails, always the same. So, anyone who goes on stage and talks about how brilliant they are, they're always, always, always sleazy and evil behind the scenes. It's just how it works. And I think it's actually, it's a kind of compensatory mechanism. People who are hiding a bunch of shit have to go out and then pretend to be something they're not.

   11. CWChris Williamson2:36

       Mm. Their morality sort of stands on the shoulders of this performative bullshit.

   12. KKKonstantin Kisin2:42

       Mm-hmm.

   13. CWChris Williamson2:43

       Is there a solution to this? Is there a way that we can scrutinize given that people's deeds and their actions and their words and their opinions are always going to be far apart?

   14. KKKonstantin Kisin2:53

       I think that we're living through a digital revolution for which we're not prepared. Uh, naturally, that's what revolution is, right? It's a change in- in the paradigm of how we exist. So, I think that 10, 15, 20 years from now, we will look back at the way we use social media now and be horrified by it. It- it'll- it'll be a little bit like, you know, tobacco companies promoting cigarettes as a healthy thing to do, and then we'll be like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. This was actually causing a lot of damage." So, I think the answer to this is- is a healthier relationship with the online world in particular. Uh, my hope is that we get past this stage and work out how to use all of that stuff better. I see in myself, like the way I use social media now is very different to the way I would have used it even two years ago.

   15. CWChris Williamson3:39

       How so?

   16. KKKonstantin Kisin3:39

       Um, I'm much more responsible with the way I use it. And I mean in terms of my own life, in terms of how much time I spend on there and what I do, but also in terms of the way I act on social media because I am trying to be more responsible in what I say. You know, it's very easy, and I think especially on- on X or Twitter, whatever you wanna call it, to get clicks. And I know exactly how to do that, which is dunk on somebody. And I spend less and less of my time doing that now, 'cause I just, I don't think that makes the world better and I don't think it makes me better.

   17. CWChris Williamson4:12

       There's very rare, it's very rare on Twitter to have someone, uh, break the fourth wall and say, "That was out of order. You're not allowed to say that." Everybody plays this sort of permanent game of sardonic tennis, right? Here's some blase comment about how you suck or some smart snipe back at what you said, and, oh, I hit it back across the net with something else. No one actually says what they should say, which is, "That's fucking out of order."

   18. KKKonstantin Kisin4:38

       And then you're a prude if you do. This is why, this is why it's disincentivized. This is like coming back to the point about incentives. Social media rewards certain types of behavior and punishes others. So, if you are the guy that says, "Maybe we shouldn't, you know, pile on this person," if your team is doing the piling on, you are like the- the one who's not willing... Do you know what I mean?

   19. CWChris Williamson4:59

       Mm.

   20. KKKonstantin Kisin4:59

       You're not willing to join in with stoning somebody, and that's why you're a loser.

   21. CWChris Williamson5:04

       Yeah.

   22. KKKonstantin Kisin5:04

       That's the- the model that we operate in. So, being responsible is disincentivized.

   23. CWChris Williamson5:09

       Yeah. The, um... I love this idea that an absurd ideological belief or an extreme ideological belief is a show of fealty to your own side and a threat display to the other, right? And the more absurd or extreme the belief, the more likely it is that your own side can trust you and that the other side should fear you.

   24. KKKonstantin Kisin5:29

       Mm.

   25. CWChris Williamson5:29

       Do you know what I mean? That if it's- if you have to put reason and sensibility and common decency to one side in order to, like, "Here I am, holding my hand in the air," for whatever the current thing is-

   26. KKKonstantin Kisin5:43

       Mm-hmm.

   27. CWChris Williamson5:44

       ... your own side sees you as a reliable ally, and the other side sees you as a formidable foe.

   28. KKKonstantin Kisin5:49

       Mm-hmm.It's tribal mechanics but multiplied by a thousand-

   29. CWChris Williamson5:53

       Correct.

   30. KKKonstantin Kisin5:53

       ... because it's online.
2. 16:04 – 21:01

   Overcoming the Challenges & Limitations of New Media

   1. CWChris Williamson16:04

      ecosystem conversation, which you guys have had a good bit and I've had twice over the last few weeks, first with Sam Harris and then with Eric Weinstein.

   2. KKKonstantin Kisin16:13

      Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson16:15

      What do you make of this? Like, the heterodoxosphere has its problems. The legacy media sphere has its problems. Independent creators (laughs) that just get to shit post anonymously on Twitter and Reddit also are, like, very unreliable. What's the... Uh, do you think about this, like, how all of this comes together and how you move forward through it?

   4. KKKonstantin Kisin16:37

      I, I see a lot of problems with new media too. I mean, and, and I've said this from day one in, in terms of what we do at Triggernometry. It's, uh, we don't have a budget to employ a bunch of people to do extensive research on things or to do fact checking for us. So we can't do certain things that the mainstream media can do and should do. The problem is that mainstream media isn't doing it either, right?

   5. CWChris Williamson17:00

      Mm-hmm.

   6. KKKonstantin Kisin17:00

      Uh, but there's a, there's a really important role for the mainstream media, uh, I just wish they'd play that role. Uh, but, you, you know, I, I think where I agree with Sam, e- even though I disagree with him on COVID and, and to some extent, well, to a large extent Trump and all those things, is there... not everything can be fixed on a podcast. That is absolutely true. There are certain things that are a matter of research and deeper study and it, it... e- it's not e- not everything can be sorted out in a three-hour conversation between two podcasters. It's, it's not how, how that works. And I think, uh, new media w- has its own problems. Um, it over-rewards charisma, it over-rewards passion, it, it massively under-rewards any attempts to, uh, cling to truth. It encourages people to go off in the pursuit of the most, uh, exciting take. And truth isn't always exciting.

   7. CWChris Williamson18:01

      Yep.

   8. KKKonstantin Kisin18:01

      You know? So I, I think the, the truth is we need a vibrant ecosystem in which all of these d- different pieces play their own different roles, um, which is why I'm in favor of maximum freedom because that's where you get everybody doing their thing. And then, you know, over time people just... people who want...... wholesome content, if you like, when it comes to facts or information or whatever, can seek it out because people aren't stupid. They, they, they can see through, um, they will eventually see through someone being super charismatic or-

   9. CWChris Williamson18:31

      Mm-hmm.

   10. KKKonstantin Kisin18:31

       ... whatever. They'll get to a point where they go, "Actually, what I'd like to do is have a look at what different sources are saying about this and make up my own mind." You saw with COVID, you know, the mainstream media really suppressed a lot of very legitimate points of view, uh, a lot of important information, but then you get the response to that, which is to go quite far off the other end. And I've ended up somewhere, eh, what I hope is a kind of reasonable middle ground between those two positions.

   11. CWChris Williamson18:56

       There's a really great blog post by Gwinder Bhogill, gowinder.substack.com, one of my favorite writers-

   12. KKKonstantin Kisin19:01

       Mm-hmm.

   13. CWChris Williamson19:02

       ... uh, "Why You Are Probably an NPC."

   14. KKKonstantin Kisin19:04

       (laughs)

   15. CWChris Williamson19:04

       And he frames out five different types of NPC, and the m- the most obvious two, you know, like sort of the mainstream NPC and the contrarian NPC. He makes this really great point, which is that the contrarian NPC is no deeper thinking than the mainstream NPC, they're just the inversion of it.

   16. KKKonstantin Kisin19:20

       Yes.

   17. CWChris Williamson19:20

       And he uses the, the, uh, line of, um, uh, being a black sheep might make you different but you're still a sheep. And that allure, this sort of romance of being the independent thought leader maker, sense maker person, I understand why it happens. But yeah, reflexive contrarianism is no more nuanced than a reflexive belief-

   18. KKKonstantin Kisin19:45

       Mm-hmm.

   19. CWChris Williamson19:45

       ... of the hegemony.

   20. KKKonstantin Kisin19:46

       Yes. Uh, and, um, uh, you know, I don't judge people for that because I, I think d- d- it, it, that's an element of my thinking, you know, a kind of... Uh, I think it's very understandable, the disillusionment with the way the institutions has, have been captured or have been corrupted or perverted or wha- whatever it is that's happened to them. Um, it is natural that that would produce an equal and opposite reaction. Um, I encourage myself and other people to go beyond that, I try as best I can, and to go, "Okay, well, we're reacting to this. This is how we're behaving. What's the actual, what's the actual truth?" Because that's where we started. We started from the position that we cared about the truth. That's why we're so annoyed with the mainstream.

   21. CWChris Williamson20:29

       Mm.

   22. KKKonstantin Kisin20:30

       Uh, can we, can we find somewhere in between those two positions that actually is an attempt to find that truth? Um, and it, it's, uh, it, it's the case with everything, you know, we've had a bunch of... We just had the f- the co-founder of Novara Media on Trigonometry, the f- far left YouTube, or not, maybe not far left. It is a kind of Corbynista supporting kind of people, and others because we're trying to speak to different people from different, uh, places and really get to, to what the bottom of is, or of different issues because those perspectives are valuable too.

3. 21:01 – 32:40

   Konstantin’s Thoughts on His Viral Sam Harris Clip

   1. KKKonstantin Kisin21:01

   2. CWChris Williamson21:01

      One of the things that Sam brought up on the episode with me was his infamous Twitter clip with you.

   3. KKKonstantin Kisin21:06

      Mm.

   4. CWChris Williamson21:06

      What was the experience of that particular 180 seconds catching fire like?

   5. KKKonstantin Kisin21:14

      You know, I felt terrible when that happened. Really, really terrible because I've never been on the end of a Twitter shit storm to that extent. But it, uh, it's not pleasant. No matter how strong-minded you are, whatever, there's a reason that R- Rogan always says, "Don't read the comments," right? Like, uh, like the great man Joseph Stalin says, "Quantity has a quality all of its own." So there's only a certain number of negative comments you can ignore until just the volume of shit becomes overwhelming. So my primary concern, actually, not, I don't know Sam well, but, uh, was for his well-being actually. I just wo- I just worried how he would re- experience that more than anything. That was my concern because our approach is always about giving a guest an opportunity to reveal themselves in the best light possible. And for some people, that light shines very brightly and can burn. Um, but that's not our intention. We never go into an interview with the desire to out somebody or expose somebody.

   6. CWChris Williamson22:21

      It's not a got you.

   7. KKKonstantin Kisin22:22

      It's not a got you. So I was worried about him and I emailed him straight away just to, you know, check up on him, and, and you know, also we didn't put that clip out. We could've done because we obviously understood that it was a controversial thing he said, and actually, uh, most people don't know this but th- that was not the most controversial thing he said in that interview, in my opinion. We talked about COVID on Locals, which was the paywall section of the interview, and what he said there I found quite-

   8. CWChris Williamson22:48

      What did he say?

   9. KKKonstantin Kisin22:49

      I don't remember the wording, and people will have to go and watch it, but he was, you know, I came away from that thinking that, you know, he's overestimating the threat, and as a result of that is prepared to do some pretty drastic things.

   10. CWChris Williamson22:59

       Mm.

   11. KKKonstantin Kisin23:00

       Or, or demand drastic things to be done. Um, so first and foremost, as somebody who interviews people for a living, I was concerned for him. But I also felt that, you know, what he said was wrong. I didn't agree with it. Um, and I, I, I, my view on it is that if you overestimate the nature of the threat, all else follows. And I think on Trump and COVID that, that is where Sam, in my opinion, is, is, is... Well, that's why he's doing what he's doing and saying what he's saying because if I thought Trump was as bad as Tr- Sam thinks, it'd be very tempting to think along the lines that Sam thinks are long. And likewise with COVID, if I thought this was like Ebola that spreads-

   12. CWChris Williamson23:50

       Mm-hmm.

   13. KKKonstantin Kisin23:50

       ... I'd also be... You know, we should also be honest, you know, the conversation people like, "Well, y- there's never ever, ever any reason for the government to mandate vaccines." And I broadly agree with that unless the disease is really, like, dangerous and deadly.

   14. CWChris Williamson24:05

       Yeah. And, uh, I, I said this at the beginning of COVID, like, imagine that the disease had 100% mortality rate for all women or is 100% mortality rate for all people under the age of 10.

   15. KKKonstantin Kisin24:16

       There'd be some people who'd support it. (laughs)

   16. CWChris Williamson24:18

       Well, yeah, but I, it, I think that the, the-Fundamentally, it came down to a risk and reward-

   17. KKKonstantin Kisin24:23

       Yeah.

   18. CWChris Williamson24:24

       ... equation.

   19. KKKonstantin Kisin24:24

       Yeah.

   20. CWChris Williamson24:24

       And most people considered that the risk of getting COVID was not greater than the risk of either getting the vaccine or of opening up mandated vaccines as a pathway overall, right?

   21. KKKonstantin Kisin24:37

       Yes.

   22. CWChris Williamson24:37

       And it's just, where do you sit on this equation?

   23. KKKonstantin Kisin24:39

       Mm-hmm.

   24. CWChris Williamson24:39

       There's lots of other things, but broadly, I think it's where do you sit on this equation. And Sam, I completely agree with him that I think COVID, as an event, was like the worst kind of vaccine that we could have given our epidemiology, our medical system, the view of vaccines overall. Vaccine skepticism at large, I bet, has gone through the fucking roof.

   25. KKKonstantin Kisin25:03

       It has. It has.

   26. CWChris Williamson25:04

       Have you had a look at this?

   27. KKKonstantin Kisin25:05

       Yeah, of course it has. I know anecdotally, just speaking to people, how much that's, that that's the case, yeah.

   28. CWChris Williamson25:10

       Yeah. So if we are to have something that comes around the next time, and it does kill fucking all children under ten, or all women, or whatever the fuck, it's got some incubation period of 28 days and a mortality of 40%, it's just a PSYOP. It's another PSYOP.

   29. KKKonstantin Kisin25:24

       Mm-hmm.

   30. CWChris Williamson25:24

       This is Klaus Schwab doing it again. This is the WEF.
4. 32:40 – 40:29

   Bud Light’s Straw That Broke the Camel’s Back

   1. KKKonstantin Kisin32:40

      with Dylan Mulvaney.

   2. CWChris Williamson32:43

      (laughs)

   3. KKKonstantin Kisin32:44

      And I also think-

   4. CWChris Williamson32:45

      You haven't taken a world of wisdom from Dylan Mulvaney over the last few-

   5. KKKonstantin Kisin32:48

      You'd be surprised, man.

   6. CWChris Williamson32:49

      Okay.

   7. KKKonstantin Kisin32:49

      You'd be surprised. And so, um, I think, look, Dylan Mulvaney's a symbol in, to many people, like Sam is a symbol to many people, for different things. But I, I think it's a slightly different issue because you, I don't know if you saw, but immediately after the, the Dylan Mulvaney controversy, the marketing executive who was responsible for this, there were vi- there was a video of her talking to, I think, a reporter about the thinking behind what the idea there was.

   8. CWChris Williamson33:19

      'Cause it seemed a little bit more thought out and contrived.

   9. KKKonstantin Kisin33:20

      It was thought out, and her, her angle was, "Our, our customers are shit." That was her angle.

   10. CWChris Williamson33:28

       Our shit?

   11. KKKonstantin Kisin33:28

       Yeah.

   12. CWChris Williamson33:29

       What's a shit customer?

   13. KKKonstantin Kisin33:30

       Well, uh, it was just, uh, it's just these guys who've got, like, a, you know, old-fashioned sense of humor, and they don't, like, do you know what I mean? Like, "We're gonna educate our customers." And I'm like, "You sell beer. That's not your job. Sell them the fucking beer and shut up."

   14. CWChris Williamson33:43

       Yeah.

   15. KKKonstantin Kisin33:43

       Right? Um, and look, the trans issue, for reasons that I actually think are quite understandable and obvious, is the lightning rod of our time. Um, so I'm not surprised that that caused the reaction that it did. And, uh, and I understand it. I, I, I do think, and I said, I wrote a Substack on this at the time, um, that perhaps the giving so much attention to it is what prompts these brands to, to go down this route.

   16. CWChris Williamson34:09

       Mm.

   17. KKKonstantin Kisin34:09

       Obviously, with Dylan Mulvaney, it backfired.

   18. CWChris Williamson34:11

       Mm-hmm.

   19. KKKonstantin Kisin34:11

       For sure.

   20. CWChris Williamson34:12

       It's a roll of the dice for attention.

   21. KKKonstantin Kisin34:14

       It's a roll of the dice for attention that I don't think they'd considered, and I think that executive ended up being fired. I do understand why people got as fired up about it as, as they did. Because you're rewarding behavior that a lot of people would feel is the wrong behavior to reward in the public eye. Dylan Mulvaney.

   22. CWChris Williamson34:29

       Mm-hmm. But that woman is one lady. Maybe, maybe in her interview with the reporter, she said this went all the way up and the director, CEO, the fucking chief marketing officer or whatever was involved in this. But if it wasn't the case, I don't think... If, if it turned out that it was one small group in, in the corner, as I, like, guessed or whatever, I don't think that the internet would have given Bud Light any more leeway.

   23. KKKonstantin Kisin34:54

       Mm.

   24. CWChris Williamson34:54

       I don't think they would have said, "We need to separate the art and the artist here." You know, they've made beer for three decades, for however fucking long it's been around. And maybe, maybe it's right. Maybe it, it shows their woke bona fides. It shows that they're the man-hating, like, left-leaning, blue-haired cucks that they always were. But I don't know. Like, it seems like a lot of the time people want... It's a, it's a smart idea to be able to say... Rogan has been in a few controversies over the last few years. Most people said, "I have faith that you're telling me this is the tip of the iceberg. I've seen the whole iceberg," right? "I know that there is nothing lurking deep down in the depths." Massive advantage he has is he's published like 5,000 hours of content over the last decade-

   25. KKKonstantin Kisin35:42

       Mm-hmm.

   26. CWChris Williamson35:42

       ... which means that you have a pretty good body of evidence that sits on the other side of the scale. Bud Light, you don't know much about what's going on inside of the marketing department. But I just thought it was interesting. I thought that maybe this is a time where it would be illustrative, and you should be careful about transge- transgressing rules that you want to be enforced. So if you want the don't judge somebody by one single occurrence rule to be enforced, and then you don't enforce it, that, as you said before, that tit-for-tat game, it opens up, "Well, they did it." So it's this playground mentality.

   27. KKKonstantin Kisin36:16

       I understand what you mean, but I think I disagree actually. I think the reason that people, uh, were as upset about it as they are is, while it's, these are different companies, the sense is...Yeah. Imagine it wasn't just Rogan who said something, but it was Chris Williamson and Triggernometry and all the other podcasters who do what we do, all at one point said the same thing, and then there was yet another example of a podcaster saying it.

   28. CWChris Williamson36:42

       Ah, I see.

   29. KKKonstantin Kisin36:42

       So when you look at the Gillette, uh, toxic masculinity ad, if you look at all the other instances where corporations put Pride flags all o-... they replace their brand with Pride.

   30. CWChris Williamson36:53

       But not in the Middle East.
5. 40:29 – 47:09

   What People Are Misunderstanding About Being a Man in 2023

   1. CWChris Williamson40:29

      time talking about modern masculinity and- and the challenges that everybody is facing. What do you think, like looking at it from your perspective growing up where you did in a communist country coming here, 13... remembered it, coming here at 13, what's, what do you think the conversation around modern masculinity from both sides of the fence is missing? Like what- what don't they understand about being a man in 2023 and the challenges and the way that the culture sees them?

   2. KKKonstantin Kisin40:59

      I think we should zoom out more, even more than that, and ask the question, what is it that we want as a society? And I piss both sides of the spectrum off by saying what I'm about to say which is any ideology, and I mean any ideology, that pits men against women or women against men is toxic and damaging and dangerous and unhealthy. And that includes some forms of feminism and that includes, you know, the incel worldview and all sorts of things. So the thing that we're really missing is a reminder of the fact that... I'm gonna do the caveat thing we talked about. Yes, some people are not heterosexual, but for the vast majority of people, the single most meaningful thing in your life is going to be the relationship you have with your intimate partner, almost always of the opposite sex, right? And we need each other. Men and women need each other. We've been working together for millennia, and anyone who tells you that your enemy is the opposite sex-

   3. CWChris Williamson42:01

      Yeah.

   4. KKKonstantin Kisin42:01

      ... that person is your enemy.

   5. CWChris Williamson42:03

      Yeah.

   6. KKKonstantin Kisin42:03

      That person is your enemy, that person is my enemy, and that person is our society's enemy. Um, they are destroying or attempting to destroy the very building block of our society.

   7. CWChris Williamson42:13

      That comes from both sides of the advice as well.

   8. KKKonstantin Kisin42:16

      Yes.

   9. CWChris Williamson42:16

      The red pillosphere teaches men that women are adversaries to be avoided or resources to be used and discarded.

   10. KKKonstantin Kisin42:28

       Mm-hmm.

   11. CWChris Williamson42:28

       Those are the only two ways. And, you know, that's black- that- that's the entire manosphere actually.

   12. KKKonstantin Kisin42:33

       Mm.

   13. CWChris Williamson42:33

       That's black pill, MGTOW, incels-... pickup artistry, red pill, sigma male, all the way, like the full- that's the- the entire gamut for anyone that doesn't know the memes.

   14. KKKonstantin Kisin42:45

       (laughs)

   15. CWChris Williamson42:45

       That's the entire memosphere of the fucking manosphere. And, uh, yeah, there's no one in there, very, very few people in there who say, "You're supposed to be a collaborator with the opposite sex. Most of your competition is intrasexual, not intersexual. Men and women have worked together for eons. You need each other to survive. Just because you've outsourced protecting and provisioning to the police department and the local supermarket, and you, women, have outsourced the resources and, uh, the company to your ability to gain education and employment and Netflix." Like, still, broadly, like we're not gonna be able to out-technology ourselves from the last 120,000 years of humans being the way that we are. So-

   16. KKKonstantin Kisin43:36

       T- there's more to a relationship than dildo, right? Like, th- uh, you're not a dildo to your partner. They- there's more that you bring to the table.

   17. CWChris Williamson43:42

       Sometimes.

   18. KKKonstantin Kisin43:43

       (laughs)

   19. CWChris Williamson43:43

       Sometimes.

   20. KKKonstantin Kisin43:43

       Well, I'm speaking for myself. Maybe I'm- I'm not sufficient in that department, but my point is, let's frame this in a positive way. What is it that we're trying to say? Well, what you're trying to say is, men and women need each other. Men and women need to work together. Uh, men and women are not enemies. Uh, the- the most powerful you are ever going to be is with a good woman by your side.

   21. CWChris Williamson44:03

       What do you say to the people that go, "This is trad pill nonsense. Like, trad con talking point 101. Like this is just another NPC meme, but coming from like someone that's steeped in a type of relationship that men or women don't need anymore"?

   22. KKKonstantin Kisin44:18

       Well, you know how Bitcoiners say, "Have fun staying poor"? Have fun being a loser. Y- y- you wanna spend your life, uh, being unhappy with the opposite sex, whether you are a feminist or one of these people? Go a- go for it. I'm not gonna tell you how to live your life, but I don't think it's gonna lead you to a good place. Um, you know, I'm- I have male friends re- who've recently found their like soulmate or their partner and they blossom. They blossom the moment that it happens. Uh, because we evolved to be together. We evolved to work together. We evolved to drive each other forward in really powerful ways. I would not- I wouldn't be a tenth of the man I am without my wife.

   23. CWChris Williamson45:00

       Did you read the post I put up a couple of weeks ago about the fuck you family?

   24. KKKonstantin Kisin45:04

       No, I didn't see that.

   25. CWChris Williamson45:05

       So, fuck you money, right? You're able to become-

   26. KKKonstantin Kisin45:08

       Oh, I did see that. Yes.

   27. CWChris Williamson45:09

       S- sufficiently financially independent, the- that money, y- you don't need to do things you don't want to do. Fuck you freedom, you don't need to do things that you don't want to do. But then, the final stage I see amongst my male friends who are, you know, 30s and 40s, is the fuck you family, which is a, all that I fundamentally care about in the end is me and the people that are a part of this nuclear pod. And everything else can go to hell, everything else can fall apart. Jimmy Carr was just sat in that seat.

   28. KKKonstantin Kisin45:39

       Mm.

   29. CWChris Williamson45:39

       He's been through his fair share of like roller coasters and he's been with his partner like a decade and a bit- like fucking forever. Like maybe even 20, like tw- something years. And now he's got a son and a daughter. And yeah, the coming home to know that as long as that's okay, as long as that's set, I'm presuming that you've stacked the fuck you money with the fuck you freedom, and then you had the family on top. It must be kind of similar to being indestructible.

   30. KKKonstantin Kisin46:04

       I'm still working on the fuck you money.
6. 47:09 – 57:18

   Why People Struggle to Advocate for Men

   1. CWChris Williamson47:09

   2. KKKonstantin Kisin47:09

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson47:09

      ... why do you think it's so difficult for people to publicly advocate for the problems of men and boys?

   4. KKKonstantin Kisin47:15

      Uh, because victimhood doesn't work for men the way it works for women. We don't feel sorry for men. And rightly so, by the way. Rightly so. I mean, biologically, men are disposable in a way that women aren't, for the obvious reasons. If you have a tribe of 10 men, 10 women, you send the women off to war, you're screwed. You send the men off to war, one comes back, you can still replenish the population. So, men are disposable, always will be, much more than women. Uh, and so we are- we don't feel sorry for men in the same way. And I am not advocating that we feel sorry for men, because I don't believe that's a solution to men's problems. Uh, the solution to men's problems is for men to be better. Uh-

   5. CWChris Williamson47:54

      What's that mean?

   6. KKKonstantin Kisin47:55

      Uh, it means... Uh, you know what I mean. Look at you. This is what your entire life is spent on bettering yourself, physically, emotionally, psychologically, mentally. You're obsessed with performance. You're obsessed with being better. You're obsessed with being happier, more fulfilled, all of these things. It's the pursuit of your own greatness.

   7. CWChris Williamson48:14

      There are structural disadvantages that are faced by men as well-

   8. KKKonstantin Kisin48:17

      Yeah.

   9. CWChris Williamson48:17

      ... right, that very few people are willing to accept at the moment. Socioeconomically, men are falling behind. Education, employment, mental health, we're currently suicide awareness, Suicide Prevention Week in the UK. The- according to one of the guys I was literally talking to half an hour ago, if you are a man, the single biggest threat to your own life is yourself. You are more likely to die by your own hand than by any other way.

   10. KKKonstantin Kisin48:42

       Are you?

   11. CWChris Williamson48:44

       ... am I?

   12. KKKonstantin Kisin48:45

       I don't think you are.

   13. CWChris Williamson48:45

       I've got suicide, I've got suicide in my family, so.

   14. KKKonstantin Kisin48:47

       I know, but I don't think you are the greatest threat to you.

   15. CWChris Williamson48:50

       That's true, but-

   16. KKKonstantin Kisin48:51

       And I'm not the greatest threat to me. And why is that?

   17. CWChris Williamson48:54

       Not everybody has the same genetic predisposition.

   18. KKKonstantin Kisin48:57

       Sure, but you just said you do, and yet you are not the greatest threat to you. Why is that? Because you're fulfilled, because you are successful, because you're striving and achieving, because you have in life what you should have in life, uh, the meaning and purpose and the pursuit of a goal, right? And for men, this is one of the problems with, you know, this mental health conversation, one of the reasons that men's mental health is not as good as it could be is that, um... A, we do live in a society which discourages them from being men and being the way that men are supposed to be. Um, but the other reason is that most of the personal development, um, and psychology fields are geared towards female ways of being. And most of the, the ways that we treat, for example, depression, men don't need the same thing as women do when it comes to that. What men need is to feel powerful, uh, and capable, right? The reason you don't, you are not the greatest threat to you is that you feel in charge of your life, right? And that's what men need to pursue with every fiber of their being. That's what I mean when I say better. Uh, you need to struggle and you need to fight and you need to achieve. And then all of this other shit falls by the wayside. And it's always been like this.

   19. CWChris Williamson50:15

       (clears throat)

   20. KKKonstantin Kisin50:15

       You know, I'm someone who's been depressed at points in my life, and it's not because, "I was having a mental health problem." It's because my life was shit and I was shit. That's why, right? So what men need is to pursue their dreams, to fight and struggle, and to achieve.

   21. CWChris Williamson50:32

       There was a, a point that you brought up earlier on about how no guidelines is liberating and terrifying altogether, and I think it's im- it's interesting to talk about how there isn't only one way to be a good man.

   22. KKKonstantin Kisin50:48

       Mm-Hmm.

   23. CWChris Williamson50:49

       But there aren't an unlimited number of ways either.

   24. KKKonstantin Kisin50:51

       Mm-Hmm.

   25. CWChris Williamson50:52

       And the problem of breaking open the expectations around men means that guidance for men and boys also largely dissipates. I had this conversation in Qatar, and the guy I was debating had this conception of the man box, and he said, "If you're inside of the man box, it can be constraining." Because he was a, a member of the LGBT community, Kuwaiti-American, grew up in the Middle East, and wanted to be a dancer as a boy. I'm like, "I imagine it's pretty fucking difficult for you to find a man box that fits that conception of you in it."

   26. KKKonstantin Kisin51:22

       Sure.

   27. CWChris Williamson51:23

       But if you completely blast it open and you can be anything that you want to be, there's no guidelines at all. There's no guidance. So how fucking hard is this gonna be? You gotta, you gotta reinvent, from first principles, what it means to be a man. And I mean, you've heard this from Mary Harrington and Louise Perry, but a lot of the guidance that was given to men previously around chivalry, it is simply a difference of degree, not a difference of kind to go from, "Men should hold the door open for women and make sure that she gets to the front door safe at night," to, "You shouldn't hit your wife."

   28. KKKonstantin Kisin51:55

       Mm-Hmm.

   29. CWChris Williamson51:56

       It is one single thread between those, which is women are more vulnerable and should be protected, right? Lovely conception, that. Mary, in classic Mary style, said the bourgeois rules that benefited women who had had a partner that grew up in a two-parent household, that went to some highfalutin institution, was around people that had good, good male role models. Yeah, sure, you can break open the doors of chivalry and maybe pay for the first date, or maybe sh- you can drive yourself home or get the taxi on your own or whatever it is, because the environment that you're in is largely very different. The guy that grew up, or the pa- the woman that grew up in a relationship with a man who comes from a single-parent household, whose mum or dad was addicted to alcohol or drugs, so there was m- multiple partners coming through the house, they never got taught not to beat your wife, let alone not to hold the door open. And like the rules for thee but not for me, it's like the rules for us protect everybody, not just me. And yeah, I, I, I think it's a really interesting frame to think about where the cultural changes come from.

   30. KKKonstantin Kisin53:05

       Mm-Hmm.
7. 57:18 – 1:05:02

   The Solution to the Masculinity Crisis

   1. CWChris Williamson57:18

      I think that you can see that. And this is why, you know, there's a multiplicity of opinions about how to do this, and I think it's why it's interesting that everybody can contribute, you know, in a-

   2. KKKonstantin Kisin57:27

      Okay, but give me a critique of what I'm saying. I'd love to explore that with you.

   3. CWChris Williamson57:30

      Not par- there's n- nothing that I would disagree with massively. I think that it- it's important to recognize the structural disadvantages faced by men and boys at the moment, going from a brawn-based to a brain-based economy, when you have a disposition to be less conscientious, where you are put into an education system that doesn't suit the disposition of boys. But you're graded in the same manner as an entire sex who does. Boys are naturally going to fall behind. And I think that you're seeing the outcomes of this in the way that schooling... And between the ages of 21 and 29, women earn a grand and a bit more than men do, right? The- the- the gender pay gap isn't a gender pay gap, it's a mother pay gap, right? That's the- the- the... Penalization comes to mothers.

   4. KKKonstantin Kisin58:15

      I don't disagree with any of that, but the question is what's the answer? What's the solution to that?

   5. CWChris Williamson58:19

      I think that creating a positive view for masculinity, creating... And this is again why, you know, Peterson and Andrew Tate as well have been so successful, because they said, "You can be something."

   6. KKKonstantin Kisin58:30

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CWChris Williamson58:31

      "You can actually step out there and wrangle the world, and I believe in you and I'm proud of you. And it's not wrong for you to try and want to get mastery or conquer something or achieve something, have ambition, to be able to make decisions easily and stand up well under pressure." Like, you know, these are all fucking good things that are-

   8. KKKonstantin Kisin58:48

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CWChris Williamson58:48

      ... not only good for you but they're good for the world as well. I think that there needs to be a positive vision, that would be one. I think that that creates a positive feedback loop for men. I do think that there's some manning up in the most transcend-and-include, uh, like, Wilburian way that we can. But I also think that, you know, we need to look at structural initiatives that can help boys and men because there's no other group on the planet who, when they fall behind, are pointed at and said, "This is your problem, you need to sort it out." Every other group, we would spend billions in taxpayer-funded money to create committees and charities and initiatives that actually work out what's going on and help them, boots on the ground, to be able to do this. I don't think... Like, if a man has a problem or if a woman has a problem, we say, "What can we do to fix society?" If a man has a problem we say, "What can a man do to fix himself?" Now, maybe that's the fundamental asymmetry at the heart of the sex difference. But in a society that has surplus resources that can help, I don't see why we wouldn't afford the... Why we would make men unnecessarily swim upstream, if that makes sense.

   10. KKKonstantin Kisin59:56

       It does make sense. However, I think that... My view is what you said earlier, it's the fundamental asymmetry between the sexes. Now, it's true that all groups face various structural inequalities. For example, I'm 5'9", barely.

   11. CWChris Williamson1:00:17

       And you play basketball?

   12. KKKonstantin Kisin1:00:18

       Not very well, I should say-

   13. CWChris Williamson1:00:19

       (laughs)

   14. KKKonstantin Kisin1:00:20

       ... for- for- for that reason alone.

   15. CWChris Williamson1:00:22

       (laughs)

   16. KKKonstantin Kisin1:00:22

       Actually, if you look at the evidence, heightism is one of the biggest openly available forms of discrimination that isn't condemned or dealt with in any way.

   17. CWChris Williamson1:00:33

       And one of your team is Scouse, so that must be-

   18. KKKonstantin Kisin1:00:37

       Mm-hmm. He's even shorter than me, believe it or not.

   19. CWChris Williamson1:00:39

       ... must be awful.

   20. KKKonstantin Kisin1:00:40

       Yeah.

   21. CWChris Williamson1:00:40

       Yeah.

   22. KKKonstantin Kisin1:00:41

       So, what's the answer to that? My answer to that has not been to get leg extensions, uh, or to complain about structural heightism. Do you know the, uh, like...

   23. CWChris Williamson1:00:53

       (laughs) Structural heightism?

   24. KKKonstantin Kisin1:00:55

       You, you joke, but if you wanna play this fucking game, this is my point, right?

   25. CWChris Williamson1:00:58

       I'm not laughing at that. I'm just, it's, "structural heightism" is a term that I haven't heard before.

   26. KKKonstantin Kisin1:01:02

       So, if you look at the CEOs of the top Fortune 500 companies, like 90% or something li- uh, don't quote me on it, you can look it up. Like, a very, very, very significant portion of them are over six foot tall.

   27. CWChris Williamson1:01:14

       Yeah, almost always the taller president wins, I think, as well.

   28. KKKonstantin Kisin1:01:17

       Right. Now, is the answer to that... Not in Russia, by the way.

   29. CWChris Williamson1:01:22

       (laughs)

   30. KKKonstantin Kisin1:01:24

       In Russia, you don't need height. So, is, do we complain about that? Should we complain about that? Should I sit here and be like, "Oh, because I'm five foot nine, I don't get to do it." It doesn't help anything. It doesn't change anything. Right? And I remember, it's so funny because I have a, a friend of mine who's like a Green Party voter, voter, the m- the most woke person that you could possibly imagine. And he's like five five. And I made this point to him. I said, "Yeah, but, you, you know, you talk about all these structural issues with like this group and that group and whatever, and you're five five. Did you know about, you know, heightism, whatever?" And he was like, "Yeah, but being five five has just made me who I am." I was like, "Yes. Yes. You are what you are. The world isn't gonna change to you." Right? So, that, my favorite scene in, uh, Game of Thrones, have you seen Game of Thrones?
8. 1:05:02 – 1:13:04

   Society Thinks Shocking Internet Videos Are How Everyone Acts

   1. CWChris Williamson1:05:02

      h- here's another thing, right? I'd be interested to get your take on this. I brought this up with that same, uh, fitness influencer a couple of weeks ago.

   2. KKKonstantin Kisin1:05:08

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson1:05:08

      Sarah. Er, and a really good response as well. Internet incidents, big ones. People in the real world use the response of the internet, they crowdsource their sense-making to how other people responded. So, you'll have seen these gym TikToks of girls videoing themselves working out, and sometimes there's a guy in the background-

   4. KKKonstantin Kisin1:05:31

      Mm-hmm.

   5. CWChris Williamson1:05:32

      ... and if the guy looks over a bit much because, for whatever reason, he's looking at her, he's looking at the camera, he's looking at himself, he's doing whatever, sometimes they make a big song and dance about it. The first big one of those that happened, it could have gone either way. You could have tossed a coin, and I would have said, "I don't know. The internet may say that this is reprehensible." I didn't... I thought it was fine, but I could have seen the internet going on the other side of the fence and saying, "Yeah, sure, sh- find this guy, like dox him, shoot him, blah, blah, blah." It didn't, and that now has created a new, uh, bar of behavior, ex- expected behavior, both for men and for women. And the interesting thing that it made me realize is, the women who saw that TikTok, had it have gone the other way and had it have been completely reprehensible and, and totally not allowed, would then have reset their worldview expectation way more sensitive. Their radar is now looking for, "Did that guy glance over three times or more in the space of 90 seconds? If so, this equals a dangerous situation because the internet told me so." And it's a, a very sort of slippery slope in one direction only. It only moves towards more sensitivity, not more robustness. Right? I thought that was interesting.

   6. KKKonstantin Kisin1:06:49

      Perception is projection.

   7. CWChris Williamson1:06:51

      What's that mean?

   8. KKKonstantin Kisin1:06:52

      It means that you see what you expect to see.... you perceive your own projections of the world.

   9. CWChris Williamson1:06:59

      Uh, you had that fucking hyper-viral moment about the scar-

   10. KKKonstantin Kisin1:07:04

       Yeah.

   11. CWChris Williamson1:07:04

       ... makeup. Tell it- tell it again for the people that don't know.

   12. KKKonstantin Kisin1:07:06

       So they did an experiment where they told a group of women that they're going to put scarring on their faces or ph- visual disfigurements of some kind, and then they would go in- into an interview. And the purpose of the experiment is to work out whether the interviewer is going to treat them differently because of their faci- facial disfigurement. What they didn't tell the women is, as they were leaving to go for the interview, they touched up their makeup, and without showing them the faci- facial disfigurement, removed the scarring. So they went into the interview thinking they're facially scarred, but they weren't, and they came back reporting massive levels of discrimination, specific comments that the interviewer had made about them that they perceived. So you- you- you see what you expect to see. This is why teaching people victimhood is so dangerous, because it makes them victims. It- it makes them expect certain things, and then they will react differently. I mean, you know, police interactions are a good example of this. If you expect that the police are gonna treat you badly because of who you are, you're gonna act in a different way, and therefore cause more problems. And I say this as somebody... You know, I was a very angry young man, and I... My- my wife used to piss me off so much. She would constantly say... Like, I'd get into an argument with somebody, and I'd be like, "That guy's a prick! He did this." And she'd be like, "You are creating those situations, you know that, right?" And I was like, "No, you've rrr..." And it took me, like, a good 10 years to work out absolutely I was. Abso-fucking-lutely I was. Right? So we- we perceive the things that we put out into the world. And this is, you know, Peterson talks about this is, you can't see without hierarchy, because your brain has to know what to focus on, and what you focus on is a function of the filter that you project onto the world. I'm focusing on you now instead of the bookshelf behind you. I could have been sitting here picking out a good book this entire time. It's been a waste. But... So that's- that's what's happening there. But it's interesting. I mean, I said something at the time, I was like, "Look, these creepy men need to stop staring at women in gyms, otherwise they're gonna stop wearing lingerie to go there, and then everybody loses."

   13. CWChris Williamson1:09:11

       (laughs)

   14. KKKonstantin Kisin1:09:12

       And- and- and what I'm... The point I'm trying to make is that, like, you know, this is a very... I'm gonna say something very controversial here, Chris. Are you ready? Men are attracted to women.

   15. CWChris Williamson1:09:25

       I've heard about that.

   16. KKKonstantin Kisin1:09:25

       Let's sit with that for a moment, 'cause-

   17. CWChris Williamson1:09:27

       I've heard about that.

   18. KKKonstantin Kisin1:09:28

       So, you know, this idea that you're gonna be barely clad and men aren't gonna notice that?

   19. CWChris Williamson1:09:36

       Yeah.

   20. KKKonstantin Kisin1:09:37

       Sorry, that's- that's not what our brains are for.

   21. CWChris Williamson1:09:40

       I learned-

   22. KKKonstantin Kisin1:09:40

       Our brains are for looking at your arse. That's what they're for. That's what they evolved for. I know it's crudely put.

   23. CWChris Williamson1:09:46

       I learned the term for this new style of gym short. It's got what's called a butt scrunch.

   24. KKKonstantin Kisin1:09:52

       Right.

   25. CWChris Williamson1:09:53

       Have you seen the butt scrunch?

   26. KKKonstantin Kisin1:09:54

       Yes.

   27. CWChris Williamson1:09:55

       Right. Yeah, you're a married man.

   28. KKKonstantin Kisin1:09:56

       Online.

   29. CWChris Williamson1:09:57

       Y- of course, yeah. Someone showed me a photo-

   30. KKKonstantin Kisin1:09:58

       Yeah, yeah.
9. 1:13:04 – 1:17:13

   Theo Von & Other Podcasters Defrauded $4 Million Dollars

   1. CWChris Williamson1:13:04

      people who aren't familiar with what's going on in the podcasting world, and apparently this one slipped by you as well. "Theo Von and other significant podcasters allegedly defrauded of approximately $4 million and then calls out the fraudster in a video. In an unexpected turn of events, Colin Thompson, the man who was working under Cast Media and with Theo Von, is accused of orchestrating a fraud operation that cost Theo Von's podcast the- this past weekend, and potentially other podcasts, an estimated $4 million. Theo Von and his crew detected inconsistencies in their payments," which is when trouble started. "Advertisers allegedly paid Colin Thompson and Cast Media directly, leaving Theo with less money than anticipated." And I know, from my side of the fence, that there are quite a few other podcasts that were with this particular company, and it seems like this gentleman has been living a good life. Meanwhile, he's been robbing Peter to pay Paul to keep on cycling this through, photos of Lamborghinis and nice houses, allegedly, and people aren't happy. And then Theo did a 10-minute video that, uh, said, "Sorry, brother, you messed with the wrong rat." And this video, I think, within 24 hours it hit a mil plays. Photos of the guy, all the rest of it, so ructions, ructions in the podcasting world.

   2. KKKonstantin Kisin1:14:25

      I can't wait to be able to be defrauded of $4 million (laughs) .

   3. CWChris Williamson1:14:29

      (laughs)

   4. KKKonstantin Kisin1:14:31

      That's my dream goal to get to that position (laughs) .

   5. CWChris Williamson1:14:36

      Fuck.

   6. KKKonstantin Kisin1:14:36

      Uh, yeah, you gotta be careful, man. You gotta be careful. That's why what we're building at Triggernometry, and we've got some big plans beyond just Triggernometry itself, is, um, you know, bringing cool people together, but doing it under our own steam, under our own umbrella, having everything managed by us with the right values and the right team. Uh, it's really important. Yeah.

   7. CWChris Williamson1:14:56

      For the people that don't know how podcast advertising works, it's- I handle m- almost all of my big partners as well directly, but a lot of the time, there'll be an- an agency that sits in between you and them. Invoicing's kinda hard. "Oh, there's an IO, and did the deliverables get done? And how many numbers did that podcast hit?" And so on and so forth. And also, who's advertising at the moment? "Oh, there's a new company in town. Maybe we can increase the- the costs or the- the price that we're charging for this." All that, like, it's messy, and it's back and forth and whatever, whatever, especially if you're doing lots of little deals as opposed to how I have it which is a small number of larger partners. And, uh, yeah, you have these guys that sit in between you and them. M- classic agency model. It's like a modeling agency, right? Like, you have a model. There's your talent. You have clients that want models, and you take a bit off the top. Take somewhere between 10 and 25% depending on who the partner is and how big the deals are. But they hold the money. Like, they get paid the money from the advertiser, and then less their cut, they'll pass it down to the podcaster. These podcasts are largely run... I mean, you'll get your YouTube AdSense revenue, which is not nothing, but fucking hell, it's not what you're making from your proper partners. And, uh, yeah, if... I don't know, man. I mean, it's such a... It- it's, uh, we- obviously you can chase these people down for like, "We're gonna fucking get him for fraud," but then he's just gonna declare br- bankruptcy or fucking move to the Cayman Islands or whatever. So, yeah, I feel this is the first time that we've seen a big case like this, which is slap bang in the bullseye of the anal- of- of our world, right? It's the first time that this has happened.

   8. KKKonstantin Kisin1:16:29

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CWChris Williamson1:16:29

      And kind of surprising it hasn't happened before, but hopefully it's a formative experience that... That's one other thing. If you wanna fuck some people over for $4 million, don't fuck people over that have a combined reach of 20 million YouTube subscribers. You know what I mean?

   10. KKKonstantin Kisin1:16:48

       Absolutely. No, it's not a smart move. Uh, but look, I- I think we are sort of living through a Wild Wild West of- of the internet. I mean, actually, the Wild Wild West of the internet is over, but the podcasting world, it's- it's very new, so there's gonna be a lot of this shit going on. I imagine this isn't an isolated incident actually. Um, so yeah. I think we all gotta be careful and smart about how- the way we build- we build things that we build.

   11. CWChris Williamson1:17:12

       "Rule Britran- Britannia.

10. 1:17:13 – 1:24:41

    EU Flags Hijack ‘Rule Britannia’ at the BBC Proms

    1. CWChris Williamson1:17:14

       Rule Britanna- Rule Brittania."

    2. KKKonstantin Kisin1:17:16

       Come on, mate, you're actually British, unlike me.

    3. CWChris Williamson1:17:18

       I'm trying. "Rule Britannia. At last night of the proms hijacked by activists waving EU flags. The sight of hundreds of European Union flags the last night of the proms have prompted an outrage from Brexiteers and a call for the BBC to investigate. Those waving the EU flag in the Royal Albert Hall appeared to outnumber those waving the union flag at the event, which is usually a patriotic display following a campaign by pro-Europeans. The spectacle of so many EU flags being waved as the whole belted out 'Rule Britannia' provoked disgust from leading Euroskeptics." What's going on?

    4. KKKonstantin Kisin1:17:55

       I (sighs) I voted-

    5. CWChris Williamson1:17:55

       That's from The Guardian.

    6. KKKonstantin Kisin1:17:56

       I voted Remain in the referendum, and I've largely... I don't know if I've changed my view of that- how I would vote, but my view of that issue has evolved so much precisely by seeing these fucking morons who just completely are incapable of understanding what democracy means. Democracy means that when you lose, you accept it. There's some other parallels for that particular statement. When you lose, you accept it. And we've had for the last seven years these just absolute fucking lunatics running around acting like what democracy means is they always get their way, and they have to insert th- this into everything. Uh, they've just become obsessed. Uh, and it's- it's mind-boggling to me. How- how we're still talking about Brexit is mind-boggling to me. I- I- I don't get it.

Episode duration: 2:19:23