Why Young Men Are Rejecting Modern Culture - Piers Morgan (4K)

1. 0:00 – 6:37

   Biden Pardoning Hunter

   1. CWChris Williamson0:00

      You wanted Trump to pardon Hunter Biden, but his dad-

   2. PMPiers Morgan0:03

      Hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson0:04

      ... has beaten him to the punch.

   4. PMPiers Morgan0:06

      Yeah. I mean, I think it would have been a very smart move by Trump to send a unifying message to a very fractured and divided America if he was to do it. But for Joe Biden to do it after assuring the world, including the American electorate, repeatedly in the last few months up to the election, "I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to pardon him." To get the White House press secretary to repeatedly say it from the lectern in the White House, I think that's pretty disgraceful. So there's two ways of looking at this. I think if Trump had done it, smart move in unifying the country. For Biden to do it, actually a pretty shameless act of rank hypocrisy.

   5. CWChris Williamson0:46

      Mm. Yeah. Not a very nice nail in the coffin of what will be probably not a particularly well-remembered presidency.

   6. PMPiers Morgan0:52

      I think he'll go down as one of the worst presidents. Uh, he stayed on way too long, and clearly cognitively he was in decline. Um, I think the botched coronation of his vice president was another fiasco which came back to haunt them. Um, and I think the problem with Joe Biden is that he, uh, the whole issue of Hunter Biden and the way he's now pardoned him, he's always positioned himself as the whiter than white candidate against Trump. That Trump's the liar, Trump's shameless-

   7. CWChris Williamson1:19

      Corrupt.

   8. PMPiers Morgan1:20

      ... Trump's corrupt, Trump is hypocritical, all these things. That was the stick he repeatedly used to beat Trump. And now in one fell swoop, one action, 'cause it's not just he's pardoned him for the things of which he's been convicted, he's pardoned him for anything else he may have done since 2014 in that period.

   9. CWChris Williamson1:36

      It's a decade of crime.

   10. PMPiers Morgan1:38

       It's like, "What else has gone on here?" A lot of rumors about much bigger stuff that may have happened. And you look at it and you think, "Wow, that's the kind of thing that honestly they talk about a banana republic relating to Trump." This is about as close to a banana republic act as you could imagine.

   11. CWChris Williamson1:53

       Mm. Yeah. I wanna talk about this, uh, on your show later on-

   12. PMPiers Morgan1:56

       Mm-hmm.

   13. CWChris Williamson1:57

       But there's this, uh, rise of the broligarchy and bro-

   14. PMPiers Morgan1:59

       Yeah.

   15. CWChris Williamson2:00

       ... bro politics at the moment.

   16. PMPiers Morgan2:01

       Which is fascinating.

   17. CWChris Williamson2:02

       I think it's, I think it's really interesting.

   18. PMPiers Morgan2:04

       Mm-hmm.

   19. CWChris Williamson2:04

       But this prioritization of doing good over looking good-

   20. PMPiers Morgan2:09

       Mm-hmm.

   21. CWChris Williamson2:09

       ... of sort of efficiency over optics.

   22. PMPiers Morgan2:11

       Mm-hmm.

   23. CWChris Williamson2:11

       And, um, you know, this is one of those examples I think where both have gone awry.

   24. PMPiers Morgan2:16

       Mm-hmm.

   25. CWChris Williamson2:17

       Both the thing that you did and the way that it was done-

   26. PMPiers Morgan2:19

       Mm-hmm.

   27. CWChris Williamson2:19

       ... and the way that it was led up to, uh, but in stark contrast to Vivek Ramaswamy doing debate prep with his top off hitting a, hitting-

   28. PMPiers Morgan2:25

       Mm-hmm.

   29. CWChris Williamson2:25

       ... forehands on a tennis court or Elon Musk, you know, sending rockets into space-

   30. PMPiers Morgan2:30

       Mm-hmm.
2. 6:37 – 10:53

   Has Cancel Culture Been Cancelled?

   1. PMPiers Morgan6:37

   2. CWChris Williamson6:37

      Elon said cancel culture had been canceled.

   3. PMPiers Morgan6:39

      Yeah.

   4. CWChris Williamson6:40

      Something you'd been harping on about for a while.

   5. PMPiers Morgan6:41

      Mm-hmm.

   6. CWChris Williamson6:42

      You think that's true?

   7. PMPiers Morgan6:43

      Well, I- I like, I like the idea of it. I certainly think that when you've got a thumping win for a guy like Donald Trump, who's been helped over the line by people like Elon, like Joe Rogan and others, who simply don't tolerate or believe in the concept of cancel culture, that's incredibly powerful. And I think you send a message to the woke world, and I always temper this kind of part of a discussion about woke- wokeism, by saying it, it, when wokeism originally began back in the '60s in America, um, it came out of music actually, and it was just, it was a clarion call for people to be more- more aware of social and racial injustice. By that criteria alone, I'm woke. Happy to be woke. It's just the way it's been hijacked in the last 10 years by what I call, well, I call them fascists. They hate it because they hate fascists. But I say, do you not understand that when you operate on a principle th- of cancel culture, of virtue signaling, of fact-devoid bullshit about things like supporting trans athletes in women's sport to the point where it just destroys the integrity of women's sport irrevocably, when you pound those drums, actually you're behaving like a fascist. Where you want people to think like you, to act like you, to speak like you, to have the same values, to have the same principles, to have the same heroes, to read the same books, to read- watch the same movies, to laugh at the same jokes, and if you deviate, we're going to destroy you. That's fascism, actually. And they don't seem to either understand that or they're in denial, but this election's a big wake-up call.

   8. CWChris Williamson8:22

      Mm-hmm.

   9. PMPiers Morgan8:22

      Because I think this election was, you had Kamala Harris, progressive, pretty far left progressive throughout her entire political career, desperately trying to move to the center when she became the- the nominee, but it was all too late because the receipts were there.

   10. CWChris Williamson8:36

       Mm-hmm.

   11. PMPiers Morgan8:37

       And the receipts were used against her, memorably in that trans ad that the Trump campaign did, which they reckon moved the needle by up to three points, where it simply ended with "Kamala Harris is for they/them, Donald Trump is for you." That was very simple but very effective because actually personal pronouns are bullshit and we all kind of know they're bullshit. And now I've noticed on my emails people have stopped using them-

   12. CWChris Williamson9:03

       (laughs)

   13. PMPiers Morgan9:03

       ... because they now realize actually it's made them look a little bit ridiculous, particularly those who insist on calling themselves "they." As Joe Rogan said about Sam Smith, "There's only one of you, buddy."

   14. CWChris Williamson9:15

       (laughs) Yeah, do you think it's a- a repudiation of that? Obviously you've made the-

   15. PMPiers Morgan9:21

       Partly.

   16. CWChris Williamson9:22

       ... you've made the claim that wokeism's dead and identity politics is dead and virtue signaling's dead and stuff like that.

   17. PMPiers Morgan9:26

       Well, I think, I think the- the concepts are dead. The- the actual execution of the death may take some time. But I do think that if it wasn't dead, you'd have seen a massive victory for-

   18. CWChris Williamson9:36

       Blow.

   19. PMPiers Morgan9:36

       ... a progressive, far left candidate in Kamala Harris who pretended she wasn't but actually is to her bootstraps. And- and she got wiped out. And I think that that's an indication of three things. One, Americans trusted Trump to fix the economy and illegal immigration better than they trusted her to do that.

   20. CWChris Williamson9:53

       Mm-hmm.

   21. PMPiers Morgan9:53

       Uh, secondly, there's something about him on the world stage, the swagger that Trump brings to the office, which annoys a lot of people, but is actually quite effective. And I think that that was partly in people's minds, particularly when he put his fist up after being shot. He showed the world that the potential president of the United States was a badass, strong guy, and I think that moment may have won him the election when we look back in- in history to that moment. Particularly when he then got back on the debate stage the week later, a rally stage, and did it all over again-

   22. CWChris Williamson10:24

       Yeah.

   23. PMPiers Morgan10:24

       ... in front of 20,000 complete strangers. I spoke to him that night. He rang me 'cause he'd seen me talk about it on FOX, and I said, "I got to say, whether people love you or hate you, that is a badass statement of personal courage." And he was- he was interesting 'cause he- he actually said in that call, you know, "I knew if I didn't get back out there now, I might never get back out there," which I thought was an interesting... You don't often hear Trump-

   24. CWChris Williamson10:49

       A little bit of vulnerability.

   25. PMPiers Morgan10:50

       A little bit, where he kind of knew himself.

   26. CWChris Williamson10:52

       Talk to

3. 10:53 – 16:13

   When Trump Calls Piers

   1. CWChris Williamson10:53

      me about what happens when your phone rings and you pick it up and it says Donald J. Trump.

   2. PMPiers Morgan10:58

      (laughs) Well it says DJT actually on my phone.

   3. CWChris Williamson11:00

      Okay. Yeah, yeah.

   4. PMPiers Morgan11:01

      Um, it's a weird thing. I mean, but it's weird in- to other people more than me. I've known Trump for nearly 20 years. And I competed in The Celebrity Apprentice, the first season of it in 2007/8, and I won it, and I spent about 100 hours around Trump, I worked out later, in that season. And it- that was very informative, particularly in the boardroom filming scenes, which could last up to three hours. I saw a lot of the way Trump is over hours, in the way he interacted with people.

   5. CWChris Williamson11:27

      The way he operates.

   6. PMPiers Morgan11:28

      Yeah. And it always struck me there was a disconnect between Trump the politician, and particularly the president, and the guy I saw in that boardroom. The guy in the boardroom was much warmer, uh, much, uh, much less combative. He liked mischief and he liked stirring things up and he liked drama, all those things, but he had a streak of empathy towards contestants and stuff which I've never seen him show as a president. He believes that he's got to be a strong man all the time. I think right now because of the shooting and because of the scale of his win, which is basically-... knocked all his critics out. I think he's, he's showing a bit more of that side now. The dancing on stage-

   7. CWChris Williamson12:06

      Mm-hmm.

   8. PMPiers Morgan12:06

      ... you know, to YMCA. I mean, the ultimate joke really, that the guy who's called the most bigoted president in history chose the number one gay anthem-

   9. CWChris Williamson12:14

      Gayest album of all time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   10. PMPiers Morgan12:16

       ... in history to sing on stage. And he's got America dancing the Trump dance, right? Uh, I see him laughing a lot more in public now. Relaxing. Enjoying dinners which are filmed and put out there. I see him doing a lot more interaction with people. I think, "Yeah, that's the, that's the guy I remember from Apprentice, the boardroom, when he did the McDonald's stunt, when he did the garbage truck stunt." And I've s- I've seen this really accelerate since he got shot. I think he, he's a changed man since then. I don't think he's going to lose the pugilistic side or the trash-talking side or any of those things which are part of his DNA as a new New York real estate guy. But I do think he's got that empathy streak he's always hidden, is now coming out more. And I think he's a happier and more relaxed guy this time because we haven't seen what we saw in 2016, which is the mass protests, the fury, the venom, the visceral hatred from the mainstream media, the Russia collusion thing for years and so on. Um, you, you take away that side and you take away the thing that Trump talks about in his book, The Art of the Deal, where he says, "If someone punches you in the face, you hit them back ten times harder." And he means metaphorically as well as physically. And for the first four years of that presidency, he was punched all the time.

   11. CWChris Williamson13:24

       Mm-hmm.

   12. PMPiers Morgan13:25

       And he reacted by punching. It became just basically a brawl between him and the media and his political opponents. This time around, there's not that same atmosphere.

   13. CWChris Williamson13:34

       He doesn't have to be as harsh. He doesn't have to be as defensive.

   14. PMPiers Morgan13:36

       He, he's won, and he's had four years to think about what he did right and wrong the first time.

   15. CWChris Williamson13:41

       You had a couple of chats with him recently on the phone.

   16. PMPiers Morgan13:43

       Yeah.

   17. CWChris Williamson13:43

       What did you learn?

   18. PMPiers Morgan13:44

       Hmm. The last time, he rang me this week, the week before Thanksgiving, um, about, the Wednesday of that week (laughs) and he said, "Piers, it's Donald." He said, uh, "I was just watching you on TV, and you were looking great, and I just thought I'm going to call you and tell you." Now, I su- suspect that isn't actually what he was thinking. He just wanted to have a chat. But it's classic Trump. Immediately you're like, "Was I?" (laughs) And I was laughing. Um, but we do have really, like, good conversations. And he was telling me about all sorts of stuff, you know, Ukraine and Russia and, uh, his cabinet and so on and so on. He knows I'm not going to repeat that kind of stuff. Um, but it, it was a very, they've been very warm conversations, very open. And I just sense in him that the shooting, in particular, and then the big scale of the win, they've had a profound effect on him. You know, he's nearly 80. He doesn't have to fight an election anymore. He only has to worry about a legacy.

   19. CWChris Williamson14:43

       Mm-hmm.

   20. PMPiers Morgan14:44

       You can tell from his cabinet picks he's gone for people who are not establishment. Because last time he chose establishment people who then basically a lot of them did him in and probably were there to do him in from the start. This time, he's got people who are ferociously loyal and, in many cases, have been very successful in their own fields, which are completely different. You know, we see WWE, right, a- as being a criteria for selection to his cabinet.

   21. CWChris Williamson15:08

       Yeah. What do you think-

   22. PMPiers Morgan15:08

       But why not? I mean, why not choose people like that?

   23. CWChris Williamson15:11

       Trust really is everything when it comes to supplements. A lot of brands may say they're top quality, but very few can actually prove it, which is why I partnered with Momentous. They make the highest quality supplements on the planet. They're literally unparalleled when it comes to rigorous third-party testing. What you read on the label is what's in the product and absolutely nothing else. Three of the products that I use every single day to support my brain, body and sleep are omega-3s, creatine, and their magnesium L-threonate. When I take these consistently, I feel a massive difference in my cognition, my strength, and my sleep. Best of all, they offer a 30-day money-back guarantee. So, you can buy it and try it for 29 days, and if you do not like it for any reason, they will give you your money back. Plus, they ship internationally. Right now, you can get 20% off everything site-wide plus that 30-day money-back guarantee by heading to the link in the description below or heading to livemomentous.com/modernwisdom and using the code MODERNWISDOM at checkout. That's L-I-V-E-M-O-M-E-N-T-O-U-S dot com slash modernwisdom, and MODERNWISDOM at checkout. What do you think

4. 16:13 – 27:07

   What Happens If Trump Fails?

   1. CWChris Williamson16:13

      happens if Trump is unsuccessful and doesn't make any positive change to America, given that he's got all of the things-

   2. PMPiers Morgan16:20

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson16:20

      ... that you could want, electoral college, popular vote, House 111?

   4. PMPiers Morgan16:22

      Yeah, there's no excuse.

   5. CWChris Williamson16:23

      But w- where does that leave American politics if you've had both parties have a cr- Is there a lot of despondency that'll come down the line if that doesn't...

   6. PMPiers Morgan16:30

      Uh, I think there'll be a lot of schadenfreude. A lot of people saying, "Told you." Um, I think Trump knows that. I think he's aware of the potential, uh, opportunity here, the chance to, in a way, have a second go at his legacy. Because he had one go at it which ended catastrophically with the January 6th rioting, which was a shameful moment in American history, and that was on him. And I think that he was then sent into the wilderness. I read a column or two in early 2022 where I was like, "This guy's finished. He's a busted flush. It's all about Ron DeSantis now. Back off, Don." I look at that now and think, "Wow, how has he got back?"

   7. CWChris Williamson17:03

      Yeah.

   8. PMPiers Morgan17:04

      Ha- and he got back even stronger than last time. And actually, it's because the Democrats did a number of acts of self-harm. They went after him through the law, weaponizing the justice system, uh, choosing ridiculously pathetic things, like whether he shuffled paperwork over a one-night stand with Stormy Daniels 20 years ago. Who cares? Americans don't care about that. They care about the fact they can't feed their kids. They care about the fact nearly 10 million people have come over the border in the Biden administration four-year period. That's what they care about.

   9. CWChris Williamson17:33

      It's that looking good over doing good thing again, right, like optics versus...

   10. PMPiers Morgan17:36

       I, I think it's, it's also a visceral hatred of Donald Trump.

   11. CWChris Williamson17:40

       Mm-hmm.

   12. PMPiers Morgan17:41

       It is... This Trump derangement syndrome is a real thing. I have friends of mine who are completely unhinged. I have family members... If you mention Trump or if I post a picture of me and Trump with something, "Congratulations on winning again," utter mayhem.

   13. CWChris Williamson17:53

       It's like that Russian sleeper agent activation code.

   14. PMPiers Morgan17:55

       Yeah, and I'm like, "You got to sit back and get the bigger picture with Trump and understand why he's so popular."

   15. CWChris Williamson18:01

       I saw from The Hill that AOC is rumored to be running for-

   16. PMPiers Morgan18:05

       I mean, utterly absurd.

   17. CWChris Williamson18:06

       What do you make of her chances?

   18. PMPiers Morgan18:08

       Well, a shrieking, even more progressive, even more far-left candidate version of Kamala Harris. I mean, Trump-... they must be rubbing their hands. Please, please give us AOC because almost everything she stands for bears no relation to what Americans actually care about. Anything. So, she would be the worst possible candidate. If the Democrats don't wake up, A, they've got to get rid of all this progressive left stuff. It's got to all go. They were at their most electable when they had someone like Bill Clinton, right? Go back to the Bill Clinton playbook. He didn't, he didn't bother with any of that crap. He just kept it pretty centered, just left of center.

   19. CWChris Williamson18:49

       What would you say to people that go, "Well, the, the world's different now. This is a different time"?

   20. PMPiers Morgan18:52

       It's not, it's not. We've been told it's different. We've been told we now have to believe the sky's blue when it's actually red. And eventually, people are going, "Well, hang on. It's red. Why have I got to call it blue?" And people have gone, "Actually, no, I'm done with that, thanks." No, and I'm done with the constant offense that everyone's taking about absolutely everything. I'm done with everyone losing their jobs over the tiniest in-, you know, transgression of the woke worldview rule book. Uh, I'm tired of all of it. I'm tired of identity politics. I'm tired of the, of the ruination of meritocracy-

   21. CWChris Williamson19:30

       Mm-hmm.

   22. PMPiers Morgan19:30

       ... of the altar of, of wokism-

   23. CWChris Williamson19:33

       Inclusion.

   24. PMPiers Morgan19:33

       ... when it doesn't matter how good you are, it matters what your skin color is or your gender. Um, it... None of that does anyone any good, least of all people from ethnic minorities, or least of all women, if you're trying to promote women's rights. I mean, it made me laugh in the election. Kamala Harris was, "I'm for women's rights. Abortion." Okay. I w- I agree with you, okay? On that, I agree with you. Uh, 'cause we... In, in Britain, it's a settled issue. We don't, you know, we just don't really have debates about abortion here. We have one of the most lax abortion laws in the world actually. Um, and I'm, I'm, I'm all in favor. I'm all for pro-women having the choice. Nothing to do with me, guv. You just decide, women, what you want to do with your bodies. All in favor of that. But how do you square being the candidate for women's rights when you're also supporting trans athletes in women's sport, as Kamala does? You can't, because you're eroding women's rights. And then people like J.K. Rowling, who put their head over the parapet, they get abused, not least by the, by the Harry Potter stars who owe her their fortunes. And I'd like to s-

   25. CWChris Williamson20:35

       Well, Rupert Grint's got a 2.8 million-pound-

   26. PMPiers Morgan20:38

       Yeah, tax bill. (laughs)

   27. CWChris Williamson20:38

       ... tax bill to pay, so maybe-

   28. PMPiers Morgan20:39

       Yeah.

   29. CWChris Williamson20:39

       ... he'll be back in her good books, yeah.

   30. PMPiers Morgan20:40

       Maybe that's, maybe that's penance, you know, for being... You know, I haven't seen his views about her, but, I mean, a lot of them have been very scathing-
5. 27:07 – 32:33

   Legacy Vs Independent Media

   1. CWChris Williamson27:07

      Something else, you know, one of the most interesting things, I think, over the last few years has been to see your, uh, arc through Legacy Media, and now joining us in the muck and the mire as a YouTube-

   2. PMPiers Morgan27:16

      (laughs)

   3. CWChris Williamson27:17

      ... degenerate.

   4. PMPiers Morgan27:18

      Yeah.

   5. CWChris Williamson27:18

      Talk to me about how you sort of come to conceptualize the different worlds, what you've learned since coming over to my side of the fence.

   6. PMPiers Morgan27:26

      Well, it, it came about because I launched this, uh, news show, Piers Morgan Uncensored, and we were launching it on TalkTV in the UK, which is a new network launched by Rupert Murdoch. And, um, concurrently, we set up a YouTube channel, and it was really interesting. Like, I was doing big interviews with Donald Trump and Cristiano Ronaldo and Kanye West and all these people. Uh, Ye, as he calls himself now. And we found that we were getting a pretty small audience on TalkTV, which was a linear platform, an hour-long show, live with commercial breaks, very traditional. But on YouTube, without any restrictions, we could run the longer versions of interviews if we pre-taped them and so on, and we were getting 10, 20, 30, 40 times the audience. And it would be far more cost-effective to not produce a linear television version. And when this went on for a year or two, I was eventually like, "Why are we doing this? Why are we losing money hand over fist to cater to probably quite an aging audience?" You know, if you look at the average age of cable news in America audiences, 70 now for Fox, CNN, MSNBC. Um, they're old people, right? I mean, that means a lot of them probably 80. Um, young people do not watch television, apart from live sport. I know because I've got four kids from 31 to 13. None of them watch TV. So, you can either pretend that what's happening in front of your eyes isn't happening, or you can see what, how your habits of your kids are and look at what's happening literally on the numbers. And so we got to about a year ago, February of 2024, um, I came off linear TV completely, and we just went full YouTube. And we've now got three and a half million subscribers, which you will appreciate is not bad in two and a half years. Took, took Joe Rogan four years to get to a million. Not that I'm comparing.

   7. CWChris Williamson29:14

      Mm-hmm.

   8. PMPiers Morgan29:15

      I am comparing.

   9. CWChris Williamson29:16

      (laughs)

   10. PMPiers Morgan29:16

       And, uh, (laughs) and we now get millions of views for, for our content, um, uh, on almost pretty much everything. And sometimes we get real poppers, like we did Bassem Youssef, the Egyptian, uh, comedian, political activist. 22 million people watched that. The, the real-life stalker from, uh, or Martha, alleged stalker from Baby Reindeer. Again, 16, 17 million people watched that on our YouTube channel. We would never got anything like that on linear television.

   11. CWChris Williamson29:40

       What about, what about from the sort of rhetoric perspective or from your, um, you know, journalisming, you always wanted to be a journalist-

   12. PMPiers Morgan29:48

       Yeah.

   13. CWChris Williamson29:49

       ... always, always l- loved the news, so on and so forth, but this... How much is this a new way to assess the day's stories, and what... has it unlocked anything, or is it just kind of a different package on, on something you've been doing?

   14. PMPiers Morgan30:02

       I think for me, what I love, I love two parts of it. One, being a ringmaster to really good debates with smart people. I have a no dummies rule, and we've exercised it a few times where people don't get invited back if they're too dumb. Because nobody wants to hear dumb people debating serious topics. We do a lot of serious debates, whether it's American election debates, whether it's Ukraine-Russia, whether it's Israel-Hamas war, you know, P. Diddy scandal, whatever it may be. You need smart people, and that's my criteria for booking guests for the debates. But also, I want to balance it up-... I want to have equal numbers on both sides, smart, debating it. And when you get it right, it's magic, because there's very few places in the world doing that. I mean, we're pretty the only ones in the YouTube space who don't have an ideological position. You know, if you look at people I really admire in this space, people like Ben Shapiro, Megyn Kelly, and others, they obviously come at it from an unashamedly conservative bias.

   15. CWChris Williamson30:52

       Mm-hmm.

   16. PMPiers Morgan30:52

       I don't. Similarly, on the left, Mehdi Hasan and others, .......................... Cenk Uygur, although he's beginning to move quite rapidly, I've noticed, to, to the dark side, as he would put it. Um, but they, they, they're from the left. Uh, I'm in the middle, genuinely in the middle. Uh, people could not position me into Republican or Democrat, or here, Conservative or Labour. Um, I don't position myself in that way. I see myself foremost as a journalist. And what I like now is that I can literally act as a journalist to everybody. Just, when they say something, fact check it in real time, ask them the right questions, you know, challenge everybody equally. And I think people learn a lot from those kind of debates. I do. I literally... My favorite debate is at the end of the 90 minutes, I go, "Do you know something? I've really learned a lot today."

   17. CWChris Williamson31:36

       Mm-hmm.

   18. PMPiers Morgan31:36

       "Um, you might all have different slants on what you've been telling me, but I've learned a lot of basic information about this."

   19. CWChris Williamson31:42

       In other news, this episode is brought to you by Nomatic. Traveling should be about the journey and not the chaos of packing, which is why I partnered with Nomatic. Their Travel Pack and Carry On Pro have genuinely changed my entire life when it comes to being on the road. They've got compartments for everything, laptop, shoes, sunglasses. It's so well organized that even your toothbrush will feel important. It's like the Marie Kondo of luggage. Everything has its place. Best of all, their products will last you literally a lifetime with their lifetime guarantee. So, this is the final backpack that you'll ever need to buy. And you can return or exchange any product within 30 days for any reason. So, you can buy your new bag, try it for a month, and if you don't like it, they will give you your money back. Right now, you can get a 20% discount and see everything I use and recommend by going to the link in the description below or heading to nomatic.com/modernwisdom. That's nomatic.com/modernwisdom.

6. 32:33 – 39:52

   How to Disagree Better

   1. CWChris Williamson32:33

      You spend a lot of time either arguing with people or watching people argue with people. Uh-

   2. PMPiers Morgan32:37

      I love a good argument.

   3. CWChris Williamson32:38

      ... I can tell. What's your-

   4. PMPiers Morgan32:39

      You're a more nuanced, calmer-

   5. CWChris Williamson32:41

      Yeah, I think, I think-

   6. PMPiers Morgan32:42

      ... environment, which again, I also really like as well. And, and occasionally I will do that with people. But as a rule of thumb, I like a good old heated knock about debate.

   7. CWChris Williamson32:50

      I, I've noticed. Yeah. Uh, what's your advice for disagreeing better with people?

   8. PMPiers Morgan32:57

      You got to listen to what you're being told by the other side. You can't have a blindly implacable view of anything. I respect... For example, take the Israel-Hamas war, the people I've had on I've most respected have been able to concede... If you're on the Palestinian side, for example, and I am, to a large degree, supportive of a lot of what they say about the way Palestinians have been treated. But if they come on and they say that they won't condemn Hamas, you're to ask everyone the same question. Became a bit of a running joke on social media.

   9. CWChris Williamson33:26

      Yeah.

   10. PMPiers Morgan33:26

       But there's a reason I ask it. If they condemn what Hamas did on October the 7th, I can move forward to a debate where I know that they're intellectually honest. If they can't, I know I'm dealing with somebody who's so blindly, implacably hateful towards Israel that they can't see the wood for the trees, and they won't see mass murder in front of their eyes, they won't see a terror attack in front of their eyes, and call it out for what it is. Similarly, on the pro-Israel side, if they don't have any empathy or sympathy for the plight of the Palestinian people going back decades, it's very hard to have a conversation with them where you think they're being intellectually honest.

   11. CWChris Williamson34:03

       Mm-hmm.

   12. PMPiers Morgan34:04

       They're not, because you can, you can have both opinions, uh, as I do. Um, so I think that intellectual honesty is a powerful tool. You know, when I've had Israel guests recently who've admitted quite readily that the expansion of the settlements on the West Bank is just plain wrong, and probably constitutes a war crime, uh, I think, "Great, that's intellectual honesty there," 'cause obviously it is. Um, but if they don't, if they try and even defend that, you know you're dealing with people who are just so hyper-partisan they're not prepared to even look at an obvious wrongdoing by their side and admit it's wrong, because they think it's weak.

   13. CWChris Williamson34:43

       What about the regulation of your emotions during that? I've heard you say that you're not a particularly emotional guy. I think you've cried once or twice over the last decade or so.

   14. PMPiers Morgan34:51

       Yeah, I'm not... I don't, I don't cry.

   15. CWChris Williamson34:53

       Which is less times than Hunter Biden has committed crimes actually-

   16. PMPiers Morgan34:57

       (laughs)

   17. CWChris Williamson34:57

       ... if you look at his current record. Um, but yeah, even you must feel the heart rate rise, the cortisol levels.

   18. PMPiers Morgan35:04

       Yeah.

   19. CWChris Williamson35:04

       Uh, what about that? What about staying cool during a, a-

   20. PMPiers Morgan35:07

       Very important for me to stay cool, but not to lose passion sometimes. You know, you can take people on and you can show some fire in the belly when you, when it's something you care about. I've done that a lot through these war periods when I felt that... Particularly when I feel people are being just crass and completely insensitive to things, then I feel the blood boiling a bit. But I come back to the best debates where I have people from both sides and they take on each other-

   21. CWChris Williamson35:31

       Mm-hmm.

   22. PMPiers Morgan35:31

       ... and I just ringmaster it and try and have a viewer at home in mind who genuinely doesn't have a horse in the race, but really wants to learn more about what's happening. That is where I think we've become a really powerful show.

   23. CWChris Williamson35:45

       Yeah, it's like Jerry Springer for the 125 IQ generation.

   24. PMPiers Morgan35:48

       Well, I knew Jerry Springer very well. Um, Jerry was a host on America's Got Talent for a year, two years, I think. And we lived in the same hotel in LA, the Beverly Wilshire, and we used to hang out by the pool, and we'd just chat. Jerry was a fascinating guy. He'd been mayor of Cincinnati. He'd been a news anchor for 10 years of a serious news program. And then, he got asked to do this pilot for a show. He thought it was terrible, uh, but it was so popular that it became the biggest show on television in the world.

   25. CWChris Williamson36:14

       He thought it was terrible?

   26. PMPiers Morgan36:15

       Terrible. Right till the end, he thought it was terrible.

   27. CWChris Williamson36:17

       (laughs)

   28. PMPiers Morgan36:17

       He said, he said, "I make the worst show on TV." But he was also making hundreds of millions of dollars.

   29. CWChris Williamson36:21

       You're like Hugh Hefner hating porn.

   30. PMPiers Morgan36:22

       Right. So, Jerry knew it was awful, uh, but he also never talked down about the people that came on. Um, I felt that quite strongly about the Jeremy Kyle scandal here.
7. 39:52 – 43:06

   The Current State of the UK

   1. CWChris Williamson39:52

      What do you make of the state of the UK at the mome- moment? It really feels like we've got a lot of turbulence going on. Two million people voted for- s- signed a petition for Keir Starmer to leave.

   2. PMPiers Morgan40:01

      Mm.

   3. CWChris Williamson40:01

      Then this insanely surprising U-turn from Keir Starmer about immigration-

   4. PMPiers Morgan40:07

      Mm.

   5. CWChris Williamson40:07

      ... saying that the Tories ran an open border policy, all of the, uh, riots that we saw across the country this summer.

   6. PMPiers Morgan40:14

      Mm.

   7. CWChris Williamson40:15

      What are you ... How do you come to think of it? It's the country that you've chosen to live in.

   8. PMPiers Morgan40:18

      I think, I think that America has got its confidence back and Trump has been responsible for that, as has Elon Musk. I think the s- ... Uh, little thing, the rockets going off, right? They're just instilling people a sense of America's firing rockets again. They're taking us to the moon, maybe the m- maybe to Mars. There's something heroically ambitious about the way that people like Musk feel, and Trump being down there at the last launch was just great imagery.

   9. CWChris Williamson40:41

      Yes.

   10. PMPiers Morgan40:42

       Um, he's making people feel confident again, and then-

   11. CWChris Williamson40:45

       Mastery, competence, conquer.

   12. PMPiers Morgan40:47

       Yes. Yeah. In the UK, there's no sense of that. There's a sense at the moment of we're just existing and that nothing's really working, that public services are decaying fast, that we're getting far too many people coming in, that obviously we need immigrants to work as a country. But you can't have a net migration of nearly a million people and expect already struggling public services to not struggle even more. Uh, you just can't. Um, and they said they'd fix the boats. The boats are f- ... I think more people are coming in than ever. Um, but it's ... Actual legal migration is a big problem, bigger than the boats issue. And we've gone through years, again, going back to what we discussed earlier, where you couldn't talk about this. If you r- even raised an eyelid on Question Time about the number of people coming in-

   13. CWChris Williamson41:36

       Racist.

   14. PMPiers Morgan41:36

       ... you were racist. Uh, in the same way that if you talk about trans athletes in sport, you're transphobic or-

   15. CWChris Williamson41:42

       But we've just seen-

   16. PMPiers Morgan41:42

       ... any of these things. And, and that all that has to stop.

   17. CWChris Williamson41:44

       But we've just seen Keir Starmer say, uh, give a two-minute statement which went ballistic on social media-

   18. PMPiers Morgan41:50

       Mm-hmm.

   19. CWChris Williamson41:50

       ... that the Conservatives couldn't have gotten away with-

   20. PMPiers Morgan41:52

       Mm.

   21. CWChris Williamson41:53

       ... three, four years ago.

   22. PMPiers Morgan41:54

       Mm.

   23. CWChris Williamson41:55

       Could not have said that.

   24. PMPiers Morgan41:56

       Mm.

   25. CWChris Williamson41:56

       Uh, so two things. Has the Overton window shifted? Uh, and-

   26. PMPiers Morgan42:00

       Yes.

   27. CWChris Williamson42:01

       And secondly, is this just a guy that's had two million people put a petition together for him going, "I need to do something to slow this"?

   28. PMPiers Morgan42:09

       Well, I don't think it's that so much, but he will certainly have looked at what happened in America and why Trump won. And he'll think, "If I don't fix the cost of living, illegal immigration, and stop the woke crap infesting my party, I'm done for," particularly if you've got someone circling like Nigel Farage, who is the UK version of Trump and is a good friend of Trump's.

   29. CWChris Williamson42:28

       Mm.

   30. PMPiers Morgan42:28

       Right? And Farage's, you know, Farage's views were c- considered extreme. They're now considered increasingly mainstream because he's been proven on immigration to be right. Right? Not about everything. And some of the language he's used has been, in my view, wrongly inflammatory. But his basic principle about if you don't have a border, as Ronald Reagan said, "If you don't have a proper border, you don't have a country." Uh, that's coming-... back to be clearly the case. So we need to be able to have an honest debate about this without people being called racist if they raise concerns about what is an obvious problem.
8. 43:06 – 53:36

   Farage’s Political Potential

   1. CWChris Williamson43:06

      Elon Musk, uh, rumors a threat of $100 million to be tossed at Nigel Farage.

   2. PMPiers Morgan43:11

      Mm.

   3. CWChris Williamson43:11

      You and him had a bit of a run-in earlier on this year.

   4. PMPiers Morgan43:14

      Mm-hmm.

   5. CWChris Williamson43:14

      Uh, what do you make of that? Would, would you be happy to see Farage get a 100 mil from Elon?

   6. PMPiers Morgan43:19

      I don't think he can do that legally in our country. Someone was saying there's a legal impediment to him actually doing that as a foreign-

   7. CWChris Williamson43:25

      He's rich, he can get around it.

   8. PMPiers Morgan43:26

      ... as a foreign citizen. Yeah. Look, um, he obviously had a big effect on Trump winning. I thought there's no question of that. Uh, no, I think Elon's allowed to do what he likes. He's a, he's a free citizen.

   9. CWChris Williamson43:34

      But would it help the UK politics to have that position?

   10. PMPiers Morgan43:38

       Well, he would balance it out because at the moment, Labour certainly have a lot more money coming in than the Tories in the last election. So I, I... Look, they all take money from people, right? Some take money from very dodgy people indeed. Uh, all of us pretend we hate it, but it carries on on both sides. If they all want to give up all outside donations, fine.

   11. CWChris Williamson43:56

       If the Conservatives-

   12. PMPiers Morgan43:56

       They can't really afford to do that.

   13. CWChris Williamson43:57

       If the Conservatives are as, as dead in the water as people think in the UK, is Reform where the attention should be?

   14. PMPiers Morgan44:03

       Reform's in a very, very good position. I mean, Kemi Badenoch's got to do something pretty radical and pretty quickly with the Conservative Party, or my prediction would be that Farage may well end up being the next Prime Minister as Elon Musk has said. I don't think that's a mad idea at all. But he might be by then running a Conservative Party which has had Reform flip into it.

   15. CWChris Williamson44:22

       Mm.

   16. PMPiers Morgan44:22

       That's where my, that's where my smart money would be, is that they'll do a deal, they'll merge the parties, and that probably Farage ends up contesting the next election. And if Keir Starmer has not delivered by then on all his promises, uh, or any of them, then he could be political toast.

   17. CWChris Williamson44:41

       I've had, uh, Dominic Cummings on the show.

   18. PMPiers Morgan44:42

       Mm-hmm.

   19. CWChris Williamson44:43

       And he also, he did a, a podcast recently where he talked about, uh, some theatrics, I think you could say, in government, that there was sort of a fake meritocracy, fake responsibility, fake government. He also said that cabinet meetings are fully scripted.

   20. PMPiers Morgan44:57

       Mm.

   21. CWChris Williamson44:58

       Um, based on what he says, based on what Rory Stewart says-

   22. PMPiers Morgan45:02

       Mm.

   23. CWChris Williamson45:03

       ... I don't know, it really does not feel like we have the brightest buttons in the bunch.

   24. PMPiers Morgan45:09

       We don't. We have-

   25. CWChris Williamson45:10

       Running our country.

   26. PMPiers Morgan45:10

       ... a very mediocre tier of politicians now. I mean, you go back to the Thatcher years and her cabinets, um, just packed full of very smart people. Uh, Tony Blair's cabinet, you know, for first two terms in particular, incredibly smart people. People like Gordon Brown as chancellor, just unbelievably brilliant brains. Um, so I think that, that's certainly true. I think a lot of smart people, particularly if they've made good money, don't want to get into politics 'cause it's just gonna ruin their lives.

   27. CWChris Williamson45:35

       It's the worst paying, most negative-

   28. PMPiers Morgan45:37

       Yeah.

   29. CWChris Williamson45:37

       ... boring-

   30. PMPiers Morgan45:38

       In Singapore-
9. 53:36 – 1:02:07

   Piers’ Old Twitter Bio

   1. CWChris Williamson53:36

      to have, no longer, you used to have a, a Twitter bio, "One day a cock of the walk, the next a feather duster."

   2. PMPiers Morgan53:41

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson53:42

      What did that mean to you?

   4. PMPiers Morgan53:43

      Well, it was handed to my, uh, great Uncle John, who was a war hero. He got the George Medal for heroism in the war. Uh, actually a brilliant story because he, he was in the army in World War II. He'd been invalided temporarily out with some bad injuries and he was in a pub where he's been, he's being billeted with his... Uh, I think it was the Irish regiment. And a wa- uh, and a prototype German bomber landed in a field near the pub. And the guys all grabbed their guns and they went and had it out with the German crew because it hadn't exploded and they heard one of them say, "Bomber, bomber." And my great Uncle John jump- jumped in, looked around, found the bomb, which was designed to blow up the prototype plane so the allies couldn't get the information from it-

   5. CWChris Williamson54:31

      Mm-hmm.

   6. PMPiers Morgan54:32

      ... and threw it away into a pond where it blew up and he got the, the George Medal. Would have been the George Cross, which is the military version, but at the time he was actually seen-

   7. CWChris Williamson54:42

      A civilian.

   8. PMPiers Morgan54:42

      ... demean- deemed to be a civilian because he was invalided, uh, he was going to go back. And i- I mea- it was actually, it was the Battle of Graveney Marsh, you can read about it.

   9. CWChris Williamson54:50

      No way.

   10. PMPiers Morgan54:50

       It was the, it was the last time that British troops engaged an enemy in British soil, and it was 70 years ago. And they had the anniversary about, it must have been 10 years ago. My brother went down, he was an army colonel, uh, with my grandmother, whose brother it would be.And they had a lovely day down in, in Graveney Marsh, and that was the last time, and he won the medal for that. You know, it's just a great story. And the other great part of it was he went to get his George Medal up in, uh, up from, uh, Buckingham Palace. I think it was from, must've been from the Queen, I guess. And he went out the night before with the regiment, got blind drunk, came back, told the porter outside, "I've got an appointment with the Queen at 11 o'clock." He thought the guy was obviously just making this up. Laughed, didn't wake him up, overslept. (laughs)

   11. CWChris Williamson55:35

       Nearly missed it. Wow.

   12. PMPiers Morgan55:37

       He did get it eventually.

   13. CWChris Williamson55:38

       So-

   14. PMPiers Morgan55:38

       And, uh, Great-Uncle John, a fantastic guy. Anyway, the point of the story is that it was his... He was at Covent Garden talking to a flower seller and the flower seller was imparting these, uh, phrases. And one was, uh, "Life ain't much but it's all you've got, so stick a geranium in your hat and be happy." And I'm not sure of the other one. Uh, the cock of the walk, my grandmother always gave me this phrase, "One day you're cock of the walk, the next, a feather duster." But she would send it to me with pictures of a cock, of a cockerel, uh, when I was going through a particularly good time-

   15. CWChris Williamson56:10

       Mm-hmm.

   16. PMPiers Morgan56:10

       ... just to remind me, "Be careful, 'cause the feather duster might be around the corner." Very, very good device. So, I'm not sure if she got that from Uncle John, but-

   17. CWChris Williamson56:19

       Mm-hmm.

   18. PMPiers Morgan56:19

       ... he certainly got a lot of his sayings from this Covent Garden flower seller.

   19. CWChris Williamson56:23

       So, you know, you've had a, you say tumultuous, turbulent, some would say fun journey. Yes.

   20. PMPiers Morgan56:31

       Fun. I mean, I don't see it as turbulent as other people do.

   21. CWChris Williamson56:34

       Mm-hmm. Well, uh, there's certainly been ups and downs. Uh, how do you not let failure get to you too much?

   22. PMPiers Morgan56:41

       Well, I come from the Winston Churchill school of thought, you know, failure is going from, uh, what knowns it is, uh, success is going from failure to failure with no discernible loss of enthusiasm. And he was the greatest Briton of all time, but he had a lot of failures, he had a lot of successes. You know, the great... I love Michael Jordan's view about success and failure is that he could remember making thousands of baskets, but he could also remember the 26 times he had the shot to win a match and he failed. And he said, "Without that, you never do the rest." And I do z- you know, Wayne Gretzky, who I met in a New York restaurant actually a few months ago. A gr- a fantastic bloke. I had great chat with him. Greatest ice hockey player in history. Famous for the quote, "You'll miss 100% of the shots you never take." I have gone through my entire life with that attitude. Just have a go. Have a go, see what happens. Sometimes it's been spectacularly successful, sometimes it's crashed and burned. It's okay.

   23. CWChris Williamson57:34

       In the moment, do you... How do you deal with sort of regulating that with the fact-

   24. PMPiers Morgan57:38

       Count to 10 slowly.

   25. CWChris Williamson57:40

       Okay.

   26. PMPiers Morgan57:40

       Literally count to 10. Literally, deep breath. So however bad it is, whatever it is, I count to 10. And at the end of 10, "Okay, now crack on." There's nothing you can do about it. There's nothing you can do about it.

   27. CWChris Williamson57:54

       What was the, uh... Is there a particularly intense count to 10 or a particularly long one that comes to mind?

   28. PMPiers Morgan58:01

       I mean, look, all the things that people know that have happened to me. You know, I've had moments when I've lost big jobs, or whatever it may be. Um, they always seem worse to other people than they do to me in the moment, I would say. I, I just literally do the count to 10, whatever it is. I just think short of death or terminal illness, everything is recoverable from. It's entirely down to you. I do think mental strength is the um, number one thing that you can have to succeed in life. Look at Donald Trump, right? That guy has got the thinnest skin in history. He'll react to absolutely everything, but he also has the thickest skin, in that he can take stuff that no other politician has ever taken and keep pounding forward. And I, I love the scene in Rocky, in the sixth f- film, when he's got the spoiled brat son who's in his 20s who hates being Rocky's son and moaning and whining, and he's just a spoiled little brat. And Rocky eventually has it out with him in the street and he says, "Listen, life is not a, uh, a l- a bunch of flowers," or something to that style, he says, "it's not about how hard you can hit. Life is about how hard you can get hit, get back up, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done." And I love that speech so much. My sons have it on, on repeat.

   29. CWChris Williamson59:10

       And that's keep pounding to you as well, right?

   30. PMPiers Morgan59:12

       Keep pounding, right? Because something will happen. But if you don't have the right mental attitude to when negative stuff happens to you, you're not gonna be able to exploit the good stuff when it comes your way. I b- I remember Kelvin Mackenzie, the infamous but brilliant editor of The Sun, the only editor I ever ha- I ever worked for, actually. And I worked there for five years when The Sun was selling like 4 or 5 million copies. And he used to rampage around from morning, noon, and night. It was a terrifying spectacle.
10. 1:02:07 – 1:04:55

    How to Teach Mental Strength to Young People

    1. PMPiers Morgan1:02:07

       I do think we are not training young minds the right way. I've felt very strongly about this for a long timeI see-

    2. CWChris Williamson1:02:13

       What would that look like?

    3. PMPiers Morgan1:02:14

       Well, I see so many with my youngest son, in particular, his age group, have a lot of anxiety issues. And I've been wrestling with why. And I read Jonathan Haidt's brilliant book about mobile phones, you know, cell phones, and how, actually, since 2010, the incidents of anxiety and depression in young people has massively accelerated. So there's a clear connection between phones when they went smart, and they are smart, but they're also very dangerous, uh, on impressionable young minds, and the effect it had on young people. And I wanna really tackle the anxiety epidemic. That's what it is. I think they're being exposed to way too much negative dopamine, all day long, on their phones. They are seeing imagery from Gaza, from Ukraine, that we never would've been able to see when I was that age, ever. You couldn't see it, b- you were protected. Newspapers wouldn't put that stuff in the paper. The two or three news channels on television wouldn't have put it on air. There was no internet, there were no phones. How did you see it? You couldn't see it. If somebody was eaten by a crocodile in Florida, right, on a golf course, you didn't even know about it.

    4. CWChris Williamson1:03:20

       Mm-hmm.

    5. PMPiers Morgan1:03:21

       Now, you're watching the video of the guy from someone's camera phone being eaten by the crocodile.

    6. CWChris Williamson1:03:26

       So that's not going away.

    7. PMPiers Morgan1:03:27

       Well, well, it's not going away, but look at what Australia's done with banning social media for under-16s. I agree with that. And it's not a free speech issue, it's a brain, it's a free of the brain issue. When-

    8. CWChris Williamson1:03:37

       Would you support that in the UK?

    9. PMPiers Morgan1:03:38

       I would, actually. Yeah, I do think that social media of under-16s is dangerous. I do. Because they're not regulated like a newspaper or a TV network. They're just not. Look at Twitter all day, you think it's regulated? It's not. Look at Facebook, is it reg- no, they're not reg- they are putting f- way too much bad stuff on there. And because they can't control it, because of the sheer volume of stuff coming in-

    10. CWChris Williamson1:03:59

        Mm-hmm.

    11. PMPiers Morgan1:03:59

        ... all the time, in real time, because they can't control it, we should control the access that impressionable young brains have to that material. As we would anything else. And I think that's a really important thing. I've seen the reactions. It's quite interesting, the reaction-

    12. CWChris Williamson1:04:13

        What do you think then?

    13. PMPiers Morgan1:04:13

        ... to Australia. Well, it's, it's quite split. Like, I've seen people on the right and the left agreeing and disagreeing.

    14. CWChris Williamson1:04:19

        (laughs)

    15. PMPiers Morgan1:04:19

        Which is, makes me think it's an interesting debate to have.

    16. CWChris Williamson1:04:24

        I don't know. I, I-

    17. PMPiers Morgan1:04:25

        What do you, what do you think of it? Have I got a thin case that maybe-

    18. CWChris Williamson1:04:27

        100%, I would, I would back it-

    19. PMPiers Morgan1:04:28

        ... maybe the f- yeah.

    20. CWChris Williamson1:04:29

        I would back it all day. I mean, I'd be tempted to back it up to 18.

    21. PMPiers Morgan1:04:31

        Mm-hmm.

    22. CWChris Williamson1:04:31

        Um, I just don't like-

    23. PMPiers Morgan1:04:34

        But the argument here is you can get married at 16. So how can you get married at 16 but not use social media 'til you're 18?

    24. CWChris Williamson1:04:39

        Y- y- yeah, exactly. Well, where are you gonna find your wife? Do you know what I mean?

    25. PMPiers Morgan1:04:41

        Yeah.

    26. CWChris Williamson1:04:41

        It's not gonna be at work, it's gonna have to be using social media, so it's gonna push-

    27. PMPiers Morgan1:04:44

        Exactly, but I think 16's a good, a good age limit.

    28. CWChris Williamson1:04:46

        Yeah.

    29. PMPiers Morgan1:04:46

        My daughter's 13. I don't think sh- her life gets benefited at all in the next three years by being exposed to everything that's on social media.

    30. CWChris Williamson1:04:54

        Yeah.

11. 1:04:55 – 1:06:31

    What’s Next for Piers?

    1. CWChris Williamson1:04:55

       What's next for you?

    2. PMPiers Morgan1:04:57

       Well, uh, I wanna make Piers Morgan Uncensored the biggest YouTube channel in the world.

    3. CWChris Williamson1:05:03

       What does that mean? Plays?

    4. PMPiers Morgan1:05:05

       Well, I would say, at the moment, yeah. I think the potential for a brand like mine to expand the brand, to bring other people in, uh, a bit like the Daily Wire, big, big-

    5. CWChris Williamson1:05:15

       Create a network.

    6. PMPiers Morgan1:05:16

       ... create a network of uncensored people doing uncensored things. YouTube channel, books, documentaries, merchandise. One of my favorite stories of Daily Wire is that they had some running with an advertiser about hair gel or something, so they launched their own hair gel line-

    7. CWChris Williamson1:05:31

       Yeah, razors, chocolate.

    8. PMPiers Morgan1:05:32

       ... and it's making, it's making like $10, $20 million a year, right? Um, yeah, I'd have a bit of Morgan merch.

    9. CWChris Williamson1:05:36

       (laughs)

    10. PMPiers Morgan1:05:37

        Um, but I think the potential for what I'm doing, and what you do, is obviously potentially massive. This was the first YouTube election in America, where more people watched analysis and election coverage on election night on YouTube than broadcast or cable news. Also, the first podcast election, where one candidate did endless big podcasts and YouTube shows-

    11. CWChris Williamson1:05:56

        What if the-

    12. PMPiers Morgan1:05:56

        ... and he won.

    13. CWChris Williamson1:05:57

        What if the 2028 debate was hosted by Piers Morgan?

    14. PMPiers Morgan1:06:01

        Yeah. Why not? Why not? You get a bigger audience. No question. Love to do that.

    15. CWChris Williamson1:06:08

        Heck yeah.

    16. PMPiers Morgan1:06:09

        I would, I would love to do that.

    17. CWChris Williamson1:06:10

        I'd watch it. Piers Morgan, ladies and gentlemen. Piers, I appreciate you, it was very good to catch up.

    18. PMPiers Morgan1:06:14

        Good to see you.

    19. CWChris Williamson1:06:14

        We need to leave and go and do your show now (laughs)

    20. PMPiers Morgan1:06:16

        We do. Good to see you.

    21. CWChris Williamson1:06:18

        And you. Thank you very much for tuning in. If you enjoyed that episode, you will love my full-length, three-and-a-half-hour-long conversation with Eric Weinstein, just there. Go on, press it.

Episode duration: 1:06:31