Ep #21 | WTF is Longevity? | Nikhil ft. Nithin Kamath, Bryan Johnson, Prashanth, Jitendra & Seema

1. 0:00 – 0:56

   Introduction

   1. NKNikhil Kamath0:00

      Okay, so what I want for today: A, to figure out what to put in my body, what not to put in my body. The second question I want answered, in this realm of health, where is the opportunity to start a business, and what business should they start? [upbeat music] Ready? Rolling. Ready? Okay, full house today. Uh, thank you, all four of you, for doing this. Bryan, welcome to India for the first time.

2. 0:56 – 5:39

   Air Quality & Blue Zones

   1. NKNikhil Kamath0:57

      What is the one thing you're looking at more than anything in India right now?

   2. SPSpeaker1:02

      [chuckles] Air quality. [laughing]

   3. NKNikhil Kamath1:07

      [laughing] How bad is it?

   4. SPSpeaker1:08

      I can't really see you over there. [laughing]

   5. NKNikhil Kamath1:11

      [laughing] This is Mumbai. We're mostly from Bangalore, so it's okay. [laughing]

   6. SPSpeaker1:16

      [laughing]

   7. NKNikhil Kamath1:16

      So what does that mean? So what is the number right now?

   8. SPSpeaker1:19

      Uh, the, the PM 2.5, I think it's one thirty, one forty-

   9. NKNikhil Kamath1:23

      Okay

   10. SPSpeaker1:23

       ... which is over 10X, uh, what is reasonable, what, what is appropriate.

   11. NKNikhil Kamath1:29

       So what is it doing to me?

   12. SPSpeaker1:31

       Uh, these contaminants, uh, wreak havoc on the body. It can create neurological dysfunction, it can cause asthma, it can cause lung irritation. It just- like, it's whole body damage. It gets into tissues, it lodges in. It's very hard to remove it, so it's not like something the body just cleans it out. It's, it's very hard to remove, so you really don't wanna mess with these airborne contaminants.

   13. NKNikhil Kamath1:54

       So if I were to pick a city to live in, how big a role would air quality play in choosing which one?

   14. SPSpeaker2:01

       Close to top three.

   15. NKNikhil Kamath2:04

       What would be the other options? What would be top one, two, and three?

   16. SPSpeaker2:08

       Uh, for health?

   17. NKNikhil Kamath2:09

       Mm-hmm.

   18. SPSpeaker2:10

       I don't, I don't think that really-

   19. SPSpeaker2:12

       That makes a difference.

   20. SPSpeaker2:12

       I mean, air quality, water quality, maybe.

   21. SPSpeaker2:15

       Air, water, and food.

   22. NKNikhil Kamath2:16

       Bryan, do you agree?

   23. SPSpeaker2:17

       I guess, like, you are thinking through this because, you know, you can filter almost any water and get it to be pure.

   24. NKNikhil Kamath2:23

       Mm-hmm.

   25. SPSpeaker2:23

       Uh, with food, you can grow your own food, but with air, you have no control.

   26. NKNikhil Kamath2:28

       Mm-hmm.

   27. SPSpeaker2:29

       Uh, you're in a system.

   28. NKNikhil Kamath2:30

       Mm-hmm.

   29. PPPrashanth Prakash2:31

       So there's this idea of, can you make at least your home a blue zone?

   30. NKNikhil Kamath2:35

       Mm.
3. 5:39 – 9:20

   Bryan’s Lifestyle

   1. PPPrashanth Prakash5:39

      And-

   2. NKNikhil Kamath5:39

      Isn't this a tough way to live, Bryan?

   3. SPSpeaker5:42

      You know-

   4. NKNikhil Kamath5:42

      Like, you travel the world, you're always on the move. If you were to worry about everything that can harm you, is it easy to live like that?

   5. SPSpeaker5:51

      You know what? In many ways it's easier-

   6. NKNikhil Kamath5:54

      How?

   7. SPSpeaker5:54

      ... because it, um, it, it makes decisions for you.

   8. NKNikhil Kamath6:01

      ... so when you say it, what is it?

   9. SPSpeaker6:03

      Like, the alma- the algorithm. So like if, if the objective is don't die, then it's just a systematic process of what inflicts damage upon the body?

   10. NKNikhil Kamath6:13

       Mm-hmm.

   11. SPSpeaker6:14

       And then how do you mitigate that damage? Like, how do you block it or, you know, how do you mitigate it? And so in that regard, it, uh, it, the process predetermines what foods you eat, if you'll drink out of plastic water bottles or not, whether you pour a glass, if you filter your water, if you wear a mask or not, uh, if you go out and exercise. Like this morning, in the hotel this morning, um, we, we took this air purifier and went to the gym. They have this beautiful gym, and I wanted to work out, but we measured the air quality in the gym are really, really bad. And so it has this filtration, so the air from the outside is getting in, so people are in there doing this really high exertion, deep breathing, and they're breathing in all these pollutants, and they have no idea. The thing is indoors. So like it, uh, it just really helps streamline decision-making across every aspect.

   12. NKNikhil Kamath7:03

       And does the mask change that?

   13. SPSpeaker7:06

       The decision-making?

   14. NKNikhil Kamath7:07

       No, the quality of air you're breathing-

   15. SPSpeaker7:10

       Yes.

   16. NKNikhil Kamath7:10

       -significantly?

   17. SPSpeaker7:11

       Yeah, so this will reduce ninety... So the P at the PM2.5, so let's look at this guy over here. It's one thirty-four.

   18. NKNikhil Kamath7:17

       Mm-hmm.

   19. SPSpeaker7:18

       It will knock out ninety-five percent of it.

   20. NKNikhil Kamath7:20

       Really?

   21. SPSpeaker7:20

       Yeah.

   22. NKNikhil Kamath7:21

       What kind of mask is it?

   23. SPSpeaker7:22

       Uh, N95.

   24. NKNikhil Kamath7:24

       Oh, like anything we used during COVID? [laughing]

   25. PPPrashanth Prakash7:26

       Yeah, those were the ones. Because that's what we needed. [laughing]

   26. SPSpeaker7:29

       Yeah, so like a ninety-nine would be better, but we just had, uh, we had ninety-fives on hand.

   27. NKNikhil Kamath7:32

       Oh, is that what the ninety-five number is for?

   28. PPPrashanth Prakash7:35

       It, it-

   29. SPSpeaker7:35

       Yeah

   30. PPPrashanth Prakash7:35

       ... removes that then, that one.
4. 9:20 – 12:14

   Roundtable Introductions

   1. NKNikhil Kamath9:20

      Okay. So maybe we start off where each of you can do two minutes about what you do in life and why health, 'cause I'm guessing Bryan has not got context yet. JC, would you like to go?

   2. JCJitendra Chouksey9:33

      All right. So hey, guys, my name is Jitendra Chouksey. You can call me JC. And, uh, yeah, we have a health and wellness company that is in the business of making people fitter and healthier. And, uh, fun thing, I didn't know, Bryan, you were coming here. [laughing] And we bumped into each other, I think, a couple of times. So Akshay Summit, I was there.

   3. SPSpeaker9:53

      Yeah.

   4. JCJitendra Chouksey9:53

      You were there. Yeah, and I think Jeff from your team was in touch with us.

   5. SPSpeaker9:58

      Cool. Great to meet you.

   6. JCJitendra Chouksey10:00

      Great to meet you.

   7. NKNikhil Kamath10:03

      Prashanth?

   8. PPPrashanth Prakash10:04

      Yeah, I'm, uh, Prashanth Prakash. Uh, otherwise, my day job is that of a VC, right? But, uh, in the last four, five years, have, uh, kind of started, uh, you know, kind of this detour into, uh, looking at, uh, the idea of precision medicine. So which is, uh, you know, um... I mean, of course, there are names like Medicine 3.0 and other stuff, right? So what do you need for that? You need, uh, a strong science institution, and that's where I founded, uh, I co-founded Longevity India, uh, in Bangalore as part of, uh, the Indian Institute of Science, which is the premier institute. And, uh, so they will anchor all the science-

   9. SPSpeaker10:50

      Yeah

   10. PPPrashanth Prakash10:50

       ... around longevity. And then BioPeak, which is the organization that will lean upon that science, but will put that science into practice, right? So and what does that mean to put into practice? Can we be a bit more, a lot like what you do, Bryan, can you be a bit more data-driven, and a bit more, uh, longitudinal in how you work with your, uh, clients? And, uh, number three, can you be more systemic, and s- and can you rely more upon systemic and cellular data, uh, and not just on blood biochemistry? So I g- I guess we're integrating a lot of this into, uh, I guess, a new approach to how people in India can start viewing, uh, preventive, predictive, and proactive health.

   11. SPSpeaker11:41

       Yeah. I am, uh, Nithin. I'm the founder of a brokerage firm. It's called Zerodha. And, uh, also run like a investment fund called Rainmatter. And through Rainmatter Health, we partner with startups like FITTR, [chuckles] and we invest in... And I'm also a customer of, [chuckles] JC.... so yeah, that's me. Mm. And, uh, I'm better known as Nikhil's brother. [laughing]

   12. NKNikhil Kamath12:11

       [laughing] So tell him what, a little bit about health.

5. 12:14 – 16:25

   Future of Medical Innovations

   1. SPSpeaker12:14

      Oh-

   2. NKNikhil Kamath12:14

      So Nithin is like this obsessive workout guy.

   3. SPSpeaker12:17

      Yeah.

   4. NKNikhil Kamath12:18

      I don't think he eats as many pills as you, but maybe, like, sixty percent.

   5. SPSpeaker12:22

      Yeah.

   6. NKNikhil Kamath12:23

      I would say thirty, thirty tablets a day?

   7. SPSpeaker12:25

      Uh, yeah, maybe, maybe twenty to thirty tablets.

   8. NKNikhil Kamath12:29

      And works out-

   9. SPSpeaker12:29

      Not, not prescribed by me. [laughing] Not prescribed.

   10. NKNikhil Kamath12:32

       [laughing] And works out for a long time every day, and he had a health calamity earlier this year.

   11. SPSpeaker12:37

       Mm.

   12. NKNikhil Kamath12:38

       So he had a stroke, even though he was very healthy.

   13. SPSpeaker12:40

       Yeah.

   14. SPSpeaker12:40

       Yeah.

   15. NKNikhil Kamath12:41

       So I'll come back to you on that.

   16. SPSpeaker12:43

       Yeah.

   17. NKNikhil Kamath12:43

       Like, you know, all this work that has gone into-

   18. SPSpeaker12:46

       Yeah

   19. NKNikhil Kamath12:46

       ... being healthy in Don't Die.

   20. SPSpeaker12:47

       Yeah.

   21. NKNikhil Kamath12:48

       What would you do if you fell sick tomorrow?

   22. SPSpeaker12:51

       So we, generally speaking, uh, I'm really humble about the pro- the approach. Like, the- we... We're probably in the very early stages of health and wellness. We probably know very little, and we'll probably look back just in a few years' time and think we're very primitive right now. And so it's, those things happen, and, uh, it would be expected, like, those things are okay, so we would just, uh, get back to work and figure out why it happened and what we can do about it. But, um, we're definitely, I think, in the very, very early stages of medicine, uh, like true anti-aging medicine. So yeah, I would just take it with, uh, in stride.

   23. NKNikhil Kamath13:31

       Yeah. So this conversation is not me asking you guys questions. Everybody talks to each other, like always. So feel free, whoever wants to lead can start.

   24. SPSpeaker13:43

       Uh, yeah, I, I, I mean, I had the same question about... Last October, last November, I did Ironman. Like, I was, I was r- really at my fittest I was ever been. And January, I was met with a stroke. It was, it was so accidental, and it was, uh, it was, um, strange that I had to go through everything that I've gone through this year.

   25. SPSpeaker14:10

       Yeah.

   26. SPSpeaker14:10

       And, uh, and this is, like, really the first time, I guess, I'm in front of a camera-

   27. SPSpeaker14:17

       Mm

   28. SPSpeaker14:17

       ... uh, after the stroke. And, uh, so I mean, I, I wanna ask, as in, how, how have you... You know, even though it's early, you know, you just said that it's early in, um, you know, understanding human body, et cetera, but, uh, how have you... I mean, what would you do if you got a stroke or you got a heart attack? As in, are you measuring everything in your body to ensure that it doesn't happen?

   29. SPSpeaker14:50

       Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm the most measured person in human history.

   30. SPSpeaker14:53

       Right.
6. 16:25 – 19:03

   Understanding Bio Transformations, Enzymatic Reactions

   1. PPPrashanth Prakash16:25

      le- let's start with, uh, what, what happens when you, uh, take your food, right? So when you, uh, take in your food, there is biotransformations that happen in your gut.

   2. NKNikhil Kamath16:36

      What is biotransformation?

   3. PPPrashanth Prakash16:37

      Where is... Your, where your, your gut org- organisms actually convert that food into certain, uh, byproducts, right?

   4. NKNikhil Kamath16:45

      Right.

   5. PPPrashanth Prakash16:45

      And, and, uh, those go through a series of enzymatic reactions. There are enzymes which are also released in your gut.

   6. NKNikhil Kamath16:52

      Mm-hmm.

   7. PPPrashanth Prakash16:52

      And from that, what you get is proteins and these other, uh, um, byproducts, right? So and when you measure your metabolites, you actually measure, uh, you know, um, and, and if you think of this as a series of, uh, steps and in a reaction, right? Your metabolites kind of give you levels of different components in that equation. So by being able to see, uh, not just the end product, which is in your blood, uh, which is blood chemistry measures the end product, which may not always be indicative of what's happening in that process, uh, right between, uh, when you consume your food to the final, uh, uh, product. So being able to measure metabolites is a more fine-grained way of looking at what... It's, uh, it's, it's, it's a more precise, uh, way of looking at what's happening, uh, in, in, in the in-between steps.

   8. NKNikhil Kamath17:52

      Is that something that is happening-

   9. PPPrashanth Prakash17:54

      And, and, and-

   10. NKNikhil Kamath17:55

       ... at scale now? Is everybody testing for this?

   11. PPPrashanth Prakash17:56

       Yeah, you can get it, uh... So in India you couldn't, and that's what we are starting up with BioPeak in a lab. But in the, in the US, I think you can. There are labs now that can do it.

   12. SPSpeaker18:04

       Yeah, we, we start with, uh, like these are- that's a really advanced measurement. So we start with basic things, like if you're fat, you're at higher risk of dying.... you know, if, um, if you have, uh, poor blood glucose control, that's also bad. So you take, like, the things you can say with a high degree of confidence, and you start with those, and you work your way down to say where, like, these kinds of things, it's emergent. So it's, like, kind of interesting. We're not quite sure where and how and why, but we really start with the basics of, like, is, is, uh, getting sleep good or bad? Is getting exercise good or bad? Is eating, you know, like, certain kinds of foods good or bad? I think for most people, that's where they're at in life, is like they- there's... Even on the basic things, there's so many questions. Like, uh, you go out and search the world for health gurus, and everyone says something different. How do you even know what's right and what's wrong? It's very hard to parse. So I think as a society, like, we, we don't really know the basics of health anywhere. Uh-

7. 19:03 – 27:20

   Bryan’s Early Days

   1. NKNikhil Kamath19:03

      Why don't you tell us a bit about how you got to be who you are? I think that's an interesting story, too. Because you don't sound like a very traditional person-

   2. SPSpeaker19:12

      Mm

   3. NKNikhil Kamath19:12

      ... or a normal, you know?

   4. SPSpeaker19:13

      Yeah, yeah.

   5. NKNikhil Kamath19:14

      Something happened there, [chuckles] so tell us. [laughing]

   6. SPSpeaker19:17

      [laughing] Something traumatic must- something traumatic must have happened. [laughing]

   7. NKNikhil Kamath19:21

      Yeah.

   8. SPSpeaker19:21

      Uh, so yeah, I, I, um, I went to Ecuador when I was nineteen years old. I was a missionary for my church.

   9. NKNikhil Kamath19:28

      Mm-hmm.

   10. SPSpeaker19:29

       And it was, uh, my first time being exposed to poverty. And I lived among extreme poverty for two years, and I just was so moved by the difference between what I had in the US and that poverty.

   11. NKNikhil Kamath19:39

       What era was this, and how old were you?

   12. SPSpeaker19:41

       It was in Quito. I was nineteen years old. And so it's just, like, such a dramatic change as a, as a kid to be in these poverty circumstances. And I thought, "You know what? Like..."

   13. NKNikhil Kamath19:53

       And back home, did you come from a rich household?

   14. SPSpeaker19:56

       No, we were a middle to low income. Like-

   15. NKNikhil Kamath20:00

       And you were Mormon?

   16. SPSpeaker20:01

       Yeah, yeah, my mom... Uh, single mom, five kids.

   17. NKNikhil Kamath20:04

       Okay. So you went from being born in a certain kind of family, being raised Mormon, to going to Ecuador when you were nineteen, and then?

   18. SPSpeaker20:15

       Yeah, and then after that, I, I came back to the US after being in Ecuador, and I was trying to figure out, like, what to do with life. And, um, I just had this burning desire that I wanted to do something that would benefit the human race. Like, uh, the people-

   19. NKNikhil Kamath20:30

       What would benefit?

   20. SPSpeaker20:30

       The human race.

   21. NKNikhil Kamath20:31

       Right.

   22. SPSpeaker20:32

       The, the people around me were really blue-collar workers. Like, they, you know... Um, they weren't entrepreneurs, they weren't engineers, just blue-collar America.

   23. NKNikhil Kamath20:42

       Can I ask why? Like, why benefit the human race?

   24. SPSpeaker20:46

       Uh, because there was, like, two paths I saw. One is you could get a job, make money, and retire. Like, everyone around me had done that. It's like, you just follow this life path. You don't dream big, you don't do different things, you just... You, you're a Mormon, you do life in a certain way, and you retire. So, like, it's a very s- standard way of doing life. Or, like, go out and carve your own path and do something unique, and I thought, "That's cool." And, like, Ecuador was omnipresent on my mind, of, like, these people, just by random luck, got born into this environment and, you know, their life is pretty limiting. Like, it's hard for them to get out of that situation, and it felt like that, uh, it might be a f- uh, a useful endeavor to do something that would benefit these people.

   25. NKNikhil Kamath21:34

       Right. So you went to Ecuador, wanted to help human race for whatever reason, and then?

   26. SPSpeaker21:42

       Yeah, and then, so the goal was make a whole bunch of money by age thirty-

   27. NKNikhil Kamath21:45

       Yeah

   28. SPSpeaker21:45

       ... and then have liberty to spend money doing something. So I started becoming... I wasn't good at anything, so I thought-

   29. NKNikhil Kamath21:52

       Did you know you were going to spend the money to help others before you made the money?

   30. SPSpeaker21:56

       Yes, that was the goal. Yeah, I, I told everyone around me.
8. 27:20 – 32:18

   Bryan’s journey into understanding Longevity

   1. NKNikhil Kamath27:20

      [laughing]

   2. SPSpeaker27:20

      I'd hide behind a mask.

   3. NKNikhil Kamath27:22

      [laughing] So what happened after thirty-four? After money.

   4. SPSpeaker27:27

      Uh, so then-

   5. NKNikhil Kamath27:27

      How did you stumble upon health as a thing or longevity or-

   6. SPSpeaker27:31

      Yeah

   7. NKNikhil Kamath27:31

      ... to not die?

   8. SPSpeaker27:32

      Um, so one, I, I had started this process when I was depressed. Uh, like, how do you solve a really complicated problem of depression?

   9. NKNikhil Kamath27:44

      Sorry, I di- I digress, but before we go there, you're thirty-four, you made three hundred million dollars. Which city are you in?

   10. SPSpeaker27:51

       Uh, that was Chicago.

   11. NKNikhil Kamath27:53

       Chicago. You're living in a nice apartment. You get divorced. What is the first thing you do?

   12. SPSpeaker27:58

       Yeah, I moved to New York.

   13. NKNikhil Kamath27:59

       Okay.

   14. SPSpeaker28:00

       And, um, I, I learn that I love to dance.

   15. NKNikhil Kamath28:06

       Dance?

   16. SPSpeaker28:06

       I've never danced in my entire life.

   17. NKNikhil Kamath28:09

       Okay.

   18. SPSpeaker28:09

       I find out one night, I love it. And-

   19. NKNikhil Kamath28:11

       How did you find out?

   20. SPSpeaker28:12

       Uh, I was at a club with friends. Like, we were-

   21. NKNikhil Kamath28:15

       Drinking

   22. SPSpeaker28:15

       ... we were at a business conference, and they're like: "Hey, do you want to go to the club?" I'm like, "What does that mean? I've never been to a club before."

   23. NKNikhil Kamath28:22

       You had never been to a club at thirty-four?

   24. SPSpeaker28:24

       No.

   25. NKNikhil Kamath28:24

       I get up until nineteen, because you were Mormon, but between the ages of twenty and thirty-four?

   26. SPSpeaker28:29

       No.

   27. NKNikhil Kamath28:31

       A bar?

   28. SPSpeaker28:32

       No.

   29. NKNikhil Kamath28:33

       A restaurant?

   30. SPSpeaker28:34

       [laughing] Yes.
9. 32:18 – 43:10

   Understanding Health Supplements

   1. NKNikhil Kamath32:18

      I... You know, you kind of are very anal about taking any kind of supplements. [chuckles]

   2. JCJitendra Chouksey32:24

      No, not any kind of supplement.

   3. NKNikhil Kamath32:25

      [chuckles]

   4. JCJitendra Chouksey32:26

      I'm simply saying, like, take supplements which have enough evidence. Like, for example, um, um, I favor more supplements which you have deficiency of-

   5. SPSpeaker32:34

      Right

   6. JCJitendra Chouksey32:34

      ... something that you can observe in your blood or on a DEXA, right? But if you're talking about taking supplements that are working at a mitochondrial level, it doesn't have any proof, it doesn't have any validation. For example, if we talk about NAD precursors, today, we don't know if those precursors are actually getting absorbed in your system. Are they making their way to mitochondria? Today, we don't even know what are the transporters that are going to transport NAD from your bloodstream across to cell membrane.

   7. NKNikhil Kamath33:04

      Can you elaborate and say what is NAD a little bit? I've tried NAD once, uh, in Dubai, in, on a IV, and I felt so bad while I was taking it. It felt like my chest is heavy, and it was so uncomfortable that I would never take it just for that reason. But what is NAD?

   8. JCJitendra Chouksey33:22

      So in your body, uh, there's a process which we refer to as metabolism, and your body produces something called as ATP. So take whatever you want to, whether it's glucose or fatty acids, and we'll exclude protein for now. The metabolism of the process- end result is ATP. And in between, because the process is exothermic, but it also requires... How do I explain it without getting too technical? Okay, so-

   9. NKNikhil Kamath33:47

      No, I think, see, there is a, there is an a, a whole oxidation process.

   10. JCJitendra Chouksey33:52

       Yes.

   11. NKNikhil Kamath33:52

       Right.

   12. JCJitendra Chouksey33:52

       So-

   13. NKNikhil Kamath33:53

       Of how your body-

   14. JCJitendra Chouksey33:53

       So you have redox process.

   15. NKNikhil Kamath33:54

       Yeah, redox.

   16. JCJitendra Chouksey33:55

       So NAD- Thank you. So all the biochemical pathways in the body, they are coupled together, so-

   17. NKNikhil Kamath34:00

       For everything, think idiot. Think I'm a ten-year-old idiot with no idea.

   18. JCJitendra Chouksey34:04

       Okay.

   19. NKNikhil Kamath34:04

       Explain like that.

   20. JCJitendra Chouksey34:07

       So your cells have nucleus.

   21. NKNikhil Kamath34:09

       Mm.

   22. JCJitendra Chouksey34:09

       You are made up of trillions of cells-

   23. NKNikhil Kamath34:11

       Mm-hmm

   24. JCJitendra Chouksey34:11

       ... and, uh, y- y- your cells have different kinds of organelles. One of them is mitochondria.

   25. NKNikhil Kamath34:18

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JCJitendra Chouksey34:18

       Right? So everybody knows that mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell.

   27. NKNikhil Kamath34:21

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JCJitendra Chouksey34:21

       Right. So inside mitochondria, there's something called as NAD-

   29. NKNikhil Kamath34:25

       Mm-hmm

   30. JCJitendra Chouksey34:25

       ... NAD+.
10. 43:10 – 46:13

    Thought experiment 1: the algorithm

    1. NKNikhil Kamath43:10

       you tell us? I read a little bit about-

    2. SPSpeaker43:11

       Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so, um, actually, if you guys are game, I'll run you through a few thought experiments.

    3. NKNikhil Kamath43:14

       Yeah.

    4. SPSpeaker43:15

       Okay, cool.

    5. NKNikhil Kamath43:15

       Yeah.

    6. SPSpeaker43:16

       Okay, so the, there's two rules here is, um, everyone talks-

    7. NKNikhil Kamath43:20

       Mm.

    8. SPSpeaker43:20

       - so everyone expresses an opinion. And number two is try to keep your answers short and snappy.

    9. NKNikhil Kamath43:24

       Sure.

    10. SPSpeaker43:25

        Uh, because you will learn based upon other people's reactions to this. Okay, fir- um, the first question for you is, if you had access to an algorithm that could give you the best physical, and mental, and spiritual health of your life, but exchange for the access, you did what the algorithm said: You went to bed when it said, you exercised the way it prescribed, you ate what it said. Would you say yes or would you say no?

    11. JCJitendra Chouksey43:49

        Yes.

    12. PPPrashanth Prakash43:49

        Yes.

    13. SPSpeaker43:50

        [chuckles] Yes, yes, yes?

    14. JCJitendra Chouksey43:51

        Yes.

    15. NKNikhil Kamath43:52

        No.

    16. SPSpeaker43:52

        [chuckles] Okay, yeah. Okay, uh, why?

    17. NKNikhil Kamath43:56

        What if the algorithm told me to sleep at 8:00 p.m. every day and then wake up at 12:00 p.m.? I wouldn't do it. It comes in the way of my life.

    18. PPPrashanth Prakash44:06

        Yeah. So maybe one, no, three yeses.

    19. SPSpeaker44:10

        Okay, so no. Okay, yes. Why?

    20. JCJitendra Chouksey44:12

        Yes. I think it's fun. You know, if, if there's a cheat sheet that can give you perpetual life, I think why not?

    21. SPSpeaker44:19

        Okay. Yes, why?

    22. PPPrashanth Prakash44:21

        Yes, because I think, uh, I believe that, you know, when you have a lot of data, computationally, I think algorithms make better decisions-

    23. SPSpeaker44:29

        Mm

    24. PPPrashanth Prakash44:30

        ... than what you can mentally process.

    25. SPSpeaker44:32

        Okay, and yes, why?

    26. JCJitendra Chouksey44:34

        No, I mean, I generally like having, like, set of rules to follow. And, and if an algorithm is gonna give me rules to follow, I just follow that.

    27. NKNikhil Kamath44:45

        What's the carrot? You live for perpetuity?

    28. JCJitendra Chouksey44:47

        No.

    29. PPPrashanth Prakash44:48

        No, he's going to talk-

    30. NKNikhil Kamath44:48

        No
11. 46:13 – 54:30

    Thought experiment 2: the 25th century

    1. PPPrashanth Prakash46:13

       One more, yeah.

    2. SPSpeaker46:13

       Okay. Question number two: um, let's imagine we just... the twen- the people who exist in the 25th century, they just watched this conversation. They heard me ask you the question, and they heard your responses. What do they say about your morals, your values, your ethics, your characteristics of intelligence? What do they say about you in this time and place?

    3. JCJitendra Chouksey46:41

       Yeah, I think four of us would look very progressive, and Nikhil would be- [laughing] - quite being a pain in the ass. [laughing]

    4. NKNikhil Kamath46:47

       Most evolved thinkers I have seen, I feel are not there today. They were there in the past, because in the past we didn't look at vocation or work like we do today. There were professional philosophers and people who could devote a life to that. As you go higher up in the la- ladder of evolution, I think you ask more first-principle questions of: What is the point of life? Get more nihilistic in nature. Ask yourself whether you want to live in the first place or not, much less, how do I extend if it is a miserable life, a little bit longer?

    5. SPSpeaker47:27

       Mm.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath47:28

       And how do I make my life more miserable in order to achieve that? So I'm assuming somebody in the 25th century is more evolved than I am, and I don't think evolution generally happens forward. It also can happen backward.

    7. PPPrashanth Prakash47:42

       So it could also be possible, Nikhil, that at that point in time, uh, you know, people are more, uh, you know, uh, following, uh, these algorithmic directions-

    8. NKNikhil Kamath47:56

       Mm

    9. PPPrashanth Prakash47:56

       ... because they, again, are focused on an outcome.

    10. NKNikhil Kamath48:01

        But he's not promising an outcome.

    11. PPPrashanth Prakash48:03

        No, no.

    12. JCJitendra Chouksey48:03

        And, and, Nikhil, what Nikhil is saying is that the progress doesn't happen linearly. Historically, if we, if we look at the last couple of centuries, it seems like it has happened in a linear manner. But what he's saying is, we are at a point where evolution and devolution both seems quite plausible.

    13. NKNikhil Kamath48:18

        No, what I'm saying is evolution is not necessarily how we think evolution is going to be.

    14. PPPrashanth Prakash48:24

        True.

    15. NKNikhil Kamath48:25

        Evolution could be different.

    16. PPPrashanth Prakash48:26

        Yeah.

    17. NKNikhil Kamath48:27

        People in the 25th century could be evolved in a different manner.

    18. JCJitendra Chouksey48:31

        What, what do you think?

    19. SPSpeaker48:33

        I'll tell you what I think after. So you guys think they would say what? So you said that you would- that there was a, a few evolved, a few-

    20. JCJitendra Chouksey48:41

        There's a, the, the-

    21. PPPrashanth Prakash48:42

        Yeah, yeah, I want to take my answer now. I think based on what Nikhil said, I, I do feel that, uh-

    22. JCJitendra Chouksey48:48

        ... my response was purely if we were progressing-

    23. SPSpeaker48:51

        Yeah

    24. JCJitendra Chouksey48:51

        -in a, in a linear fashion, but now I'm not sure what they'll say.

    25. SPSpeaker48:54

        Yeah.

    26. JCJitendra Chouksey48:55

        Not too sure.

    27. PPPrashanth Prakash48:56

        I think, uh, they'll say that, uh, um, maybe, uh, they'll know a lot more about, uh, uh, why certain things need to be done or not done, right? So they'll think that we probably were, uh, not, not really thoughtful in just saying that we'll follow the algorithm.

    28. SPSpeaker49:15

        Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah?

    29. SPSpeaker49:18

        No, I, I, I would say, I, I would, I would think they will think that person's being stupid. This fellow saying no is, is maybe a stupid kind of a decision.

    30. SPSpeaker49:29

        Yeah.
12. 54:30 – 1:03:00

    Thought experiment 3: enabling an intelligence

    1. SPSpeaker54:30

       third thought experiment. So when I, um, try to assess planet Earth right now, and I try to quiet my mind and acknowledge-- try to identify what is really happening on the planet, I think there's only one thing going on: we're giving birth to super intelligence. Nothing else matters besides that.... we're giving birth to a form of intelligence that's gonna change our existence unfathomably, and in, and in time frames which are hard for us to understand. So as a species, we have this really pressing problem: what do you do when you give birth to superintelligence? Now, if you pose this question to China, they've got an answer. If you pose the question to the US, they kind of have an answer, but the Op- the OpenAI has an answer, and, and Anthropic has a different answer, and Facebook's open model has a different answer. And if you pose this question to Israel, they have ideas. If you ask i- an ideological group, "What do you want to do with it?" They have certain ideas. So we have different people with different ideas all over the world, eight billion of us, and they have different ideas on how they want to use superintelligence: for war, for money, for status, for power, for sex. So a legitimate question, when you're giving birth to an intelligence this powerful, what do we do? And this is not a question of, like, what ought we to do, this is, like, a legit question. We're a team, we're planning, what are we going to do in this moment?

    2. PPPrashanth Prakash55:51

       The only thought that I- comes to me is that hopefully it's not about what... I mean, of course, a lot of better things can happen, but it does not lead to a dystopian situation and, uh, uh, you know, k- kind of, uh, uh, uh, existential human race kind of situation is what comes to mind for me.

    3. SPSpeaker56:23

       Yeah?

    4. PPPrashanth Prakash56:24

       That because you don't know where that superintelligence will actually end.

    5. SPSpeaker56:28

       Yeah. So what do we do?

    6. PPPrashanth Prakash56:30

       So you, you need to, uh, in my mind, uh, you know, uh, govern- I mean, have, have as much systems to govern the su- superintelligence as, uh... And th- that the governance systems should evolve as, uh, in step with, uh, how fast the superintelligence evolves.

    7. SPSpeaker56:53

       Whose, whose governance systems?

    8. PPPrashanth Prakash56:56

       Whatever that avoids that, that situation of, uh, humanity being, uh, the whatever, uh, d- d- just destroyed at some level, right?

    9. SPSpeaker57:07

       Who do we call?

    10. PPPrashanth Prakash57:09

        So we'll have to figure that out, right? We'll have to figure that out because there is, there is everybody working on, uh, birthing that superintelligence.

    11. SPSpeaker57:17

        Yeah.

    12. PPPrashanth Prakash57:17

        Are there enough people working on saying, you know, "How do you manage the superintelligence?"

    13. SPSpeaker57:22

        Yeah. So what do you think we should do?

    14. PPPrashanth Prakash57:24

        I think we should put enough effort on, uh... I mean, as, as, uh, uh, you know, in terms of resources and, uh, uh, you know, putting people's capabilities behind, uh, you know, this, this, this aspect-

    15. SPSpeaker57:39

        Yeah

    16. PPPrashanth Prakash57:39

        ... this dimension. I think, uh, there has to be a little bit of, uh, of, of refocus and shift.

    17. SPSpeaker57:46

        Who does that?

    18. PPPrashanth Prakash57:48

        I, I think, um, in, in my mind, it's a, it's a collective, uh, global effort.

    19. SPSpeaker57:54

        And who's in charge?

    20. PPPrashanth Prakash57:56

        I'm- whoever is... I mean, today we are not nuking ourselves, right? Everybody's- I mean, everybody can nuke everybody, but we're not nuking it, uh, nuking each other. So I think the same systems that govern that, uh-

    21. SPSpeaker58:09

        So you, you think the status quo will take care of it?

    22. PPPrashanth Prakash58:11

        No, no. I'm, I'm saying the status quo is a starting point.

    23. SPSpeaker58:14

        Yeah.

    24. PPPrashanth Prakash58:15

        Right? With the absence of anything else, I'm saying that's where I would start.

    25. SPSpeaker58:19

        Okay. Others, what do yous, what do you think we do?

    26. SPSpeaker58:22

        I don't know. I don't know if we have control to do anything much. As in, the fact that there's US and China, I mean-

    27. SPSpeaker58:32

        Yeah

    28. SPSpeaker58:32

        ... how do you get them both to... You know, they're gonna compete a way to, to, you know, to build the superintelligent whatever. So, so I don't know. I, I never thought about it, but, but I don't think [chuckles] we can do anything.

    29. SPSpeaker58:50

        Yeah. Okay, fair. Prash?

    30. JCJitendra Chouksey58:52

        Yeah, I, I think it's gonna be a reactive response because it's growing in an unplanned manner.
13. 1:03:00 – 1:20:28

    WTF is ‘Don’t Die’?

    1. SPSpeaker1:03:00

       we need a plan, and there's only one plan that I know of that actually can be equal to this moment, and it's Don't Die. So Don't Die is a philosophical framework. It's an economic plan, it's political, it's moral, it's social, and it is don't die individually, don't kill each other, don't kill the planet, and align AI with Don't Die. That Don't Die is the most played game by every, every human on this planet, every second of every day. It is our zeroth order priority every second, to not die. Every breath we take, all of our metabolic energy is going to not dying in this moment. That's true for all of biology, too, most of biology. And so Don't Die is the single thing that every human can agree upon. Above Don't Die, we branch off into billions of different directions, and we have all kinds of different opinions about everything. So Don't Die is what I've been trying to do for the past four years, is I've tried to say what I want to become the most Don't Die person in human history. So how do you do that? You would say, "I'm going to measure every way I can, this biological fun- this, uh, me, every organ, every biological process." Take all the science you can, apply all the science, and say, "What did you get?" Look at the data, and then repeat that. Measurement, science, data. Measurement, science, data, and do it again and again and again till you find that path of, like, what works, what doesn't work. Now, the same algorithm would work for planet Earth. You say, "How could Earth be a sustainable biosphere for us as a species?" You measure the Earth with billions of data points. You say, "I have a hypothesis on what a good biosphere looks like." You run the experiment, you get data. Same thing, science, protocol, data. And so it's the same thing again and again. Don't Die is, uh, numerical in value. So just like I can measure my speed of aging or, uh, the age of a, of bio-- of an organ, you could say, what is the die score of a ch- of a child's school lunch? So in America, an, a common school lunch is a piece of pizza, chocolate milk, and canned vegetables. So, like, we know that's not a metabolically optimized meal necessarily. We could probably assign it a die score. Like, when a child consumes that, what is it doing for its health and wellness? You could also say, you can imagine this being a political sit- situation where a politician is saying: I want to be elected because I give my constituents the best water, air, medical services, right? It's a political system built upon Don't Die. It's numerical. And so I propose that Don't Die is the singular thing we focus on as a species, and specifically, that we have power, that by 2027, the same time when we think that these AI agents will be as good as our best AI researchers, that there's a billion of us around the world that are practicing Don't Die economically, politically, religiously, morally, socially, ethically, all the above. What do you think about that?

    2. NKNikhil Kamath1:05:56

       Can I ask to what end? What is the point of life?

    3. SPSpeaker1:06:02

       So that question is a luxury that one can ask when you're not dead.

    4. NKNikhil Kamath1:06:07

       Mm-hmm. Agreed. But if you were to take your s- I can't use the word soul, but take your, uh, mind out of your body, and if you have to compare and gauge two lives, one very happy, fulfilling fifty-year lifespan and one less fun eighty-year lifespan, if your mind had to make a choice, which life should it pick? What is the point of life?

    5. SPSpeaker1:06:40

       Yeah.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath1:06:40

       What is the meaning of it?

    7. SPSpeaker1:06:41

       So that quest-

    8. NKNikhil Kamath1:06:42

       Don't Die depends on that, in my opinion.

    9. SPSpeaker1:06:45

       So that question has probably produced more murder than any question in, in history. And the question is basically, do you agree or disagree with this concept? Like, humans murder each other when we disagree over concepts.... and so the point of Don't Die is Don't Die is the only thing in existence we agree upon.

    10. PPPrashanth Prakash1:07:07

        I mean-

    11. SPSpeaker1:07:07

        Everything else, we branch and we kill each other.

    12. PPPrashanth Prakash1:07:10

        When, when you think about it, humans-

    13. NKNikhil Kamath1:07:12

        You're, you're not saying don't kill others, you're saying don't die. What if-

    14. SPSpeaker1:07:15

        Don't die... Well, don't die, don't kill each other.

    15. NKNikhil Kamath1:07:17

        What if tomorrow it goes to a point, I'm just extrapolating here-

    16. SPSpeaker1:07:19

        Yeah

    17. NKNikhil Kamath1:07:20

        ... that for you not to die, you have to, like, eat Prashanth's heart or something like that? What happens then?

    18. SPSpeaker1:07:25

        Yeah, so the second rule is don't kill each other. So first one is don't die, second is don't kill each other, third is you can't destroy the planet. [laughing]

    19. PPPrashanth Prakash1:07:31

        [laughing] Yes, I'm safe. He has a second rule.

    20. SPSpeaker1:07:34

        Second rule, and the fourth is align AIs don't die. So, like, basically, we humans, we can't resolve conflict with death. That's not an option. You can't kill each other to solve an argument.

    21. PPPrashanth Prakash1:07:47

        Bryan-

    22. NKNikhil Kamath1:07:47

        What if you diminish the quality of his life? I'm just extrapolating, because Don't Die in isolation, I think, needs ten other questions answered around it.

    23. SPSpeaker1:07:55

        Sure. So it's a lot like democracy, when the US was thirteen colonies and, and they were ruled by the British. The US said: "We want to do our own thing, we want to elect our own officials, we want to govern ourselves like we want." Um, at that point, they did not have democracy solved. They didn't know how to do states' rights, federal rights, they didn't understand how to... What, what do you do with someone who's been committed for a crime? Can they still vote or not? Like, there were thousands and thousands of questions that are unresolved. The US is still fighting about democracy. Two hundred years later, still a, a constant debate. Don't Die is the same way. Like, it's not that we have this solved ethically and morally, it's that you're pointing in the right direction. And so if you look at it from the 25th century, like, you really try to pull yourself out of the moment, Don't Die is a contemplation that when an intelligent species, when Homo sapiens gives birth to superintelligence, what do you do? Right, so, like, right now, we're in this very serious complication, and we just had this conversation where it's like, we don't know. So if you go out and you say, "Hey, democracy, help us out," or, "Hey, capitalism, do you have any answers?" Like, "Hey, Islam, hey, Christianity," like, "Hey, Buddhism, who can help us solve this puzzle?" Like, what do we practically do?

    24. NKNikhil Kamath1:09:00

        What is the puzzle? What is the problem you're trying to solve?

    25. SPSpeaker1:09:02

        What do we do when you're giving birth to a superintelligence? When you're giving birth to a form of intelligence that exceeds you in every capacity.

    26. NKNikhil Kamath1:09:09

        Are you saying Don't Die in relation to that?

    27. SPSpeaker1:09:12

        Exactly. I'm saying Don't Die is the practical, moral, ethical, social, philosophical, economic, political framework of what we do as a species when you give birth to superintelligence.

    28. PPPrashanth Prakash1:09:23

        So is that just a different way of saying, you know, um, let's improve the quality of life of everybody on this planet? How is it different from that?

    29. SPSpeaker1:09:35

        Uh, it's, so it, it's both a, a negative statement and a positive statement, right? So a negative statement is that if, if the, if the US... So whoever acquires superintelligence, they're probably not gonna be, uh, you know, they're probably gonna use it according to current laws of society, which is ruthless brutality of power acquisition, right? Like, that's what humans do. And, um, there's, there's rules on what- and so we do this because we value security and power and status. That's what we, we all do individually, so we do collectively. So whoever acquires this technology is gonna play by the rules of society to acquire those endpoints. So when you acquire this power, if you apply the same human rules, what I'm saying is you have a possibility that leads you to a destruction of the species. So either AI can go wrong or humans can use it for the wrong purposes. And so what I'm saying is, like, in- when death- when it's just humans playing the game and death is inevitable, like, sure, I go to war, kill each other, create kingdoms, have someone else take your place in that kingdom, like, do your thing. When you're giving birth to superintelligence and the, and the map is changing for the species, you have to ask: Is there any existing system that humans have that answer this equation? So, like, let me give you another example. So imagine you're hanging out with Homo erectus a million years ago. They have an axe in their hand, that's their tool of choice, to, like, give you an idea of how either primitive or advanced they were. And you say: "Homo erectus, tell me about the future of intelligence. Like, what are humans going to be like?" Now, Homo erectus, at that point, may say, "We're going to do, you know, we're gonna do more hunting, we're gonna do more gathering, we're gonna travel to different parts of the world," but they can't tell you about the microscopic world of atoms or molecules. They can't tell you about the electromagnetic spectra, which you can't see. They can't tell you about radios. They can't tell you about antibiotics, a pill you hold in your hand to swallow. They have no models in their mind that inform them on any part of our reality. So the only thing a Homo erectus could say that would be intelligent is, "I don't know. I have no models to state this." Now, when we're giving birth to superintelligence, the question is: Are we equal to Homo erectus? Are we basically as primitive relative to AI as Homo erectus is to our, our current state? And so that's the, the question for us, is do we know anything? Which takes us back to our first question, our second question, and third question. This entire conversation is a, is a juxtaposition of what we think we know, what we actually know, and trying to find the right balance between do we dare even express an opinion? And so Don't Die is basically saying: We have no idea what the future is offering. We have no idea what's coming our way. The only thing we know, the only thing we can say with confidence, is none of us wanna die right now. That's it. We can't say anything intelligent beyond that statement. Everything else is pure speculation.

    30. PPPrashanth Prakash1:12:32

        Uh, going back to, Bryan, what you were saying, I mean, does that even matter, that point? I mean, just, this Don't Die thing, when, let's say you have two countries, uh, um, let's say the US and China, right? Hypothetically, right. So if they have all the AGI in the world, and the rest of the world is, is pretty much-
14. 1:20:28 – 1:26:50

    Testing & Supplementation

    1. SPSpeaker1:20:28

       Okay, so what should we put into our body? We'll all say the supplements we are taking, and maybe you can give us your opinion on it, and you... we can all ask the-

    2. JCJitendra Chouksey1:20:36

       No, uh

    3. SPSpeaker1:20:36

       -questions independently.

    4. JCJitendra Chouksey1:20:37

       No, but-

    5. PPPrashanth Prakash1:20:38

       No, but-

    6. JCJitendra Chouksey1:20:38

       But first, he should start, I think.

    7. PPPrashanth Prakash1:20:39

       Yeah, he should. I mean, Bryan, I mean, just I have a quick question there. Uh, so you were doing about a hundred plus supplements when you started out?

    8. SPSpeaker1:20:46

       Yeah.

    9. PPPrashanth Prakash1:20:46

       Is that correct?

    10. SPSpeaker1:20:47

        Yeah.

    11. PPPrashanth Prakash1:20:47

        Yeah. And you've kind of now got it down to about forty.

    12. SPSpeaker1:20:50

        Yeah.

    13. PPPrashanth Prakash1:20:51

        Right? What was the process, and, and how did you get from where you started to where, where you are?

    14. SPSpeaker1:20:57

        Uh, it's all about data. It's all about measurement of data. So like, the question, like, what somebody should eat or what someone should take is, like, we can start with markers that we know are good. You can say, like, um, your measure of your HbA1c, uh, so your blood glucose level. We can say, um, you know, a six is bad, a four point seven is good. So, very easy. You say, "What foods produce something closer to four point seven, and what foods produce something closer to six?" That's a very easy process, right? So, uh, foods that spike blood sugar, like high sugar and things like that, bad. And so you start with the stuff that's very basic. What things, uh, create inflammation in the body, good or bad? Can you tell us five basic things that we should follow? Yeah, but I, I say these things because, um, every health expert has a different answer.

    15. NKNikhil Kamath1:21:49

        But what is Bryan's answer?

    16. SPSpeaker1:21:51

        Yeah, so I guess-

    17. NKNikhil Kamath1:21:51

        After all the experience-

    18. SPSpeaker1:21:52

        Sure

    19. NKNikhil Kamath1:21:52

        -and research.

    20. SPSpeaker1:21:53

        Yeah, my... So I have specific answers for foods I eat, but I'm saying the process that people should go about doing is not trust anyone's philosophy. They should trust the data. And so there's multiple paths to get to the same destination. Just trust the data. And so what I do, um, I-- for breakfast, I have broccoli, cauliflower, black lentils, garlic, ginger. Uh, for my next meal, I have macadamia nuts, walnuts, flaxseed, pomegranate juice, berries, pea protein, and hemp protein. My final meal of the day is some cli- combination of berries, nuts, seeds. And then I have extra virgin olive oil with every meal, and, uh, I do fermented foods.

    21. JCJitendra Chouksey1:22:29

        And every day?

    22. SPSpeaker1:22:30

        What's that?

    23. JCJitendra Chouksey1:22:31

        Every day you have the same thing?

    24. SPSpeaker1:22:32

        The third meal varies every day. Yeah.

    25. JCJitendra Chouksey1:22:35

        Oh, okay.

    26. PPPrashanth Prakash1:22:36

        And, uh, what's the time? I mean, you do this between, uh, uh-

    27. NKNikhil Kamath1:22:41

        Intermittent

    28. PPPrashanth Prakash1:22:41

        ... restricted, uh-

    29. SPSpeaker1:22:42

        Yeah, in six hours.

    30. PPPrashanth Prakash1:22:43

        Six hours.
15. 1:26:50 – 1:35:17

    Business Opps in Testing & Supplementation

    1. SPSpeaker1:26:50

       powerful.

    2. NKNikhil Kamath1:26:51

       Okay, since we have one question: if I were a twenty-five-year-old trying to start a business in health around testing, supplementation, or anything ancillary, do you see any low-hanging fruits that one should start?

    3. SPSpeaker1:27:05

       I mean, so I, I went through this exercise myself, and, um, I didn't really want to get into this business. Like, it's a, it's a pain in the ass, low margin, uh, but, like, it's-- no one's done this. So we created, I think, uh, the healthiest food stack in the entire world. So we went through all the evidence. We said, where are high-value nutritional foods? We sourced it from all over the world, and we do third-party testing, and we publish all the lab results. And I know from doing this over the past couple years, that food is guilty until proven innocent. So if we tested this food right here, I bet it's toxic. I bet it has contaminants in there that we don't know we're eating because nobody's checking this. There's no-- we don't have a third-party lab result showing us what's in this food. I've tested enough food myself to know most things have high levels of, of toxins. And most-

    4. NKNikhil Kamath1:28:01

       So you're saying the business would be to put out a food stack that is highly tested?

    5. SPSpeaker1:28:05

       Exactly. 'Cause what you- you want basically health to be automated. Like, if I eat this, I want to know what I'm putting in my body. Like, what is the die score? Is it actually gonna... Is it improving my health or is it making my health worse? There's, there's actually, you can quantify that to some degree. Like, smoking a cigarette-- So here's, like, kind of like, in this air quality here, uh, in Mumbai, it's equal to smoking over ten cigarettes a day if you're out in the, every day. Like, the entire city is smoking, you know, ten plus cigarettes a day breathing this air, right? That's a very clear die score, right? Because there's no virtue in cigarettes. There's no one living longer because they're smoking. The same issue with this air quality.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath1:28:44

       So, Bryan, now, what do you think of a business where you have a multidisciplinary team, right? Which is, which costs a lot of money-

    7. SPSpeaker1:28:51

       Yeah

    8. NKNikhil Kamath1:28:51

       ... and you, you use them. If that can be, uh, democratized in some sense and, uh, somebody can have a model and which is kind of the clinic model with the same team-

    9. SPSpeaker1:29:03

       Yeah

    10. NKNikhil Kamath1:29:03

        ... that can be leveraged with a health manager, uh, for a broader set of people.

    11. SPSpeaker1:29:09

        Yeah.

    12. NKNikhil Kamath1:29:09

        Are you thinking of something like that?

    13. SPSpeaker1:29:11

        It's like, it's the hard- the hard part about that is it doesn't scale. Like, anytime you're dealing with someone's personal health, you've got infinite rabbit holes to go down, right? They've got endless issues they're trying to chase down, and those issues are endless optimizations. And then when you pair the doctor with that, like, it just, there's, the margins are so low. Uh, maybe AI will change that-

    14. NKNikhil Kamath1:29:29

        Yeah

    15. SPSpeaker1:29:29

        ... or it can change that.

    16. NKNikhil Kamath1:29:30

        That's what I think. Yeah, okay.

    17. NKNikhil Kamath1:29:31

        Can you give us one more, like a business a twenty-five-year-old should start? Because everybody is looking at this, watching. Bryan, what business do we start in health?

    18. SPSpeaker1:29:39

        There's so many people building in AI in health right now, so that's a very saturated market. There's just tons of, uh, high-quality energy going into that. Like, food, food is, like, the most basic, boring business that no one builds.

    19. NKNikhil Kamath1:29:55

        Mm-hmm.

    20. SPSpeaker1:29:56

        And, uh, that's why it was a problem that needed to be solved. We did that with supplements and food. Um, you know, like, biotech is a different thing. You have to raise a ton of money, you have these very long cycles. It's very hard. So yeah, health is very, very hard. Like, the doctor mo- like, it's very, very hard. It's not a clean answer.

    21. NKNikhil Kamath1:30:13

        I mean, uh, one thing, uh, I take Athletic Greens in the morning. [chuckles]

    22. SPSpeaker1:30:18

        Yeah. [chuckles]

    23. NKNikhil Kamath1:30:19

        So I saw, I saw, uh, a post of yours-

    24. SPSpeaker1:30:22

        Yeah

    25. NKNikhil Kamath1:30:24

        ... uh, kind of dissing Athletic Greens. Why is that? Because the whole industry seems to be, uh, on one side for Athletic Greens, and, and you are against it, as in-

    26. SPSpeaker1:30:35

        Yeah.

    27. NKNikhil Kamath1:30:35

        Any, any reason for that? Does it-

    28. SPSpeaker1:30:36

        Yeah, so the, um, the cost of their goods to source their actual ingredients is less than ten dollars, probably seven dollars. They sell it for one time, ninety-nine dollars, and subscription for seventy-nine. They pay influencers twenty percent of that. So every time a, a health influencer plugs AG1, they get twenty dollar, uh, um, fourteen dollars on that sale in perpetuity. And so what, what I'm hitting at is health influencers have sold their souls to push this product. Because, like, as a health influencer, you channel your- you're basically saying: "Trust me, I'm gonna tell you true things."

    29. NKNikhil Kamath1:31:20

        Right.

    30. SPSpeaker1:31:21

        And then you turn on your, your, um-... promotion hat, and now you're saying, "Trust me, buy this thing."
16. 1:35:17 – 1:38:37

    10 years from now, what’s Bryan's goal?

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:35:17

       What is end game for you, Bryan? What are you looking to be years, twenty years from now? What are you trying to achieve?

    2. SPSpeaker1:35:26

       Um, I want something very simple. I want the twen- those who exist in the 25th century, I want them to say, "He got it. He got it. He, he got that moment right. He saw it."

    3. NKNikhil Kamath1:35:41

       Is, is the need for being right in an unforeseeable future, why is that so appealing to you?

    4. SPSpeaker1:35:50

       Uh, it's the- it's the characteristics I value in people. Like, I read a ton of biographies, and we, we read people throughout history, like, you know, Magellan, like, he had this hypothesis: "I can sail a ship around the world." And he got a crew, and he loaded up all his materials, right? And, like, he was successful.

    5. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:08

       And when you paint this picture in your mind, is it posthumous validation, or are you alive in the 21st century?

    6. SPSpeaker1:36:14

       Like, either, either version makes me happy.

    7. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:17

       Right.

    8. SPSpeaker1:36:18

       Yeah.

    9. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:19

       What center in your brain is that most ap- appealing to? Like, for you to be proven right a hundred years down the line, what kind of high does that give you?

    10. SPSpeaker1:36:28

        Yeah, I mean, it's like, to me, it's the ultimate game to play. So, like, if you say, like, um, what is human ambition or aspiration? Like, you could say in previous times, uh, Alexander the Great says, "I'm going to raise an army, I'm going to conquer territory, and make this huge kingdom." Like, that's like the, the peak ambition, right, of a military commander. If you're a spiritual, uh, person, you may say, "I want to figure out detachment and ego death, and I want to-

    11. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:59

        Do you think something in common between Alexander and the spiritual leader, outside of what they superficially did?

    12. SPSpeaker1:37:05

        Yes.

    13. NKNikhil Kamath1:37:05

        Having a lot of followers for the spiritual leader, conquering land for Alexander, what sat below it in their psychology? Why did they want that?

    14. SPSpeaker1:37:12

        So this is... It's like ma- it's like, um, what a person does with their conscious existence. You know, it's like, uh, Turing was like, "I'm going to build a universal computer," right? Uh, uh-... uh, Watson and Crick was like: "We're going to, like, distant-- we're gonna actually use-- we can look at the DNA," right? It's like people do things to express their essence, their intelligence. And so the question for me is, like, I find myself to exist, what do I do with my existence? Like, do I try to make money? Do I try to have a lot of sex? Do I, like, do I become debaucherous? Like, what do I do with my existence? And to me, the coolest thing you can do is you try to solve the puzzle of existence. Like, you try to solve, like, this whole thing. Like, what is going on? Like, [chuckles] what, what is even happening? Like, why do we exist? Why is there Earth? Why are we in this part of the galaxy? What is existence? And so to me, that's like, you point at that.

    15. PPPrashanth Prakash1:38:06

        Right.

    16. SPSpeaker1:38:06

        And that's what my twenty-year-old self was like. I wanted to do something that had this bigger architectural thing. And to me, like, there's one thing happening right now, which is like: How do you solve existence for intelligence?

    17. PPPrashanth Prakash1:38:17

        Right.

    18. SPSpeaker1:38:17

        Like, everything else is just like a sideshow. And so to me, I'm very drawn to it as a problem. And that's why I go to this, like, how do you structure knowing, not knowing? How do you structure human affairs? What are app- appropriate thought processes? Uh, so really, it's like the biggest puzzle to solve in this moment.

    19. NKNikhil Kamath1:38:32

        [upbeat music] So my team's telling me you wanna, like... Yeah? Okay.

17. 1:38:37 – 1:39:35

    Food Break!

    1. SPSpeaker1:38:37

       Cool.

    2. PPPrashanth Prakash1:38:37

       Cool, thanks.

    3. SPSpeaker1:38:39

       [upbeat music] Yeah.

    4. NKNikhil Kamath1:38:42

       Yeah?

    5. SPSpeaker1:38:43

       Yeah. Thank you for having me.

    6. PPPrashanth Prakash1:38:44

       Yeah.

    7. SPSpeaker1:38:46

       Good to hang out.

    8. NKNikhil Kamath1:39:08

       [upbeat music]

18. 1:39:35 – 1:46:05

    Air Quality Index (AQI) - Massive Opportunities

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:39:35

       Okay.

    2. PPPrashanth Prakash1:39:36

       Okay.

    3. NKNikhil Kamath1:39:37

       Bryan had to leave. Air quality in Bombay is not up to-

    4. PPPrashanth Prakash1:39:42

       [chuckles] Up to the mark.

    5. NKNikhil Kamath1:39:43

       I'm actually surprised that the air quality affected him that much, cognizant to how different things affect different people, but could you think it'll be that bad?

    6. SPSpeaker1:39:54

       I mean- Seema Kamath: It's possible. It is possible, as in-

    7. NKNikhil Kamath1:39:58

       One twenty?

    8. SPSpeaker1:40:00

       I mean, the way he reacted to one twenty was strange, because he probably stays in a place where it's less than ten.

    9. NKNikhil Kamath1:40:07

       California.

    10. SPSpeaker1:40:08

        But... Yeah.

    11. NKNikhil Kamath1:40:09

        LA.

    12. SPSpeaker1:40:09

        Yeah.

    13. PPPrashanth Prakash1:40:10

        But, uh, Nithin, a hundred, right? I mean, I'm just being objective, and this could happen in Bangalore. I'm not saying because it's Bangalore, Mumbai, whatever, right? Hundred, living at a hundred for long periods of time is not good.

    14. SPSpeaker1:40:24

        I mean, we, uh-

    15. PPPrashanth Prakash1:40:25

        Yeah, so, so this, uh, as cities, we have to do something in our country.

    16. SPSpeaker1:40:29

        Yeah.

    17. PPPrashanth Prakash1:40:30

        And-

    18. SPSpeaker1:40:30

        I mean, we have made a choice, conscious choice of staying outside. I mean, not really outside of Bangalore- Seema Kamath: Yeah ... but little outskirts. Uh, just because, uh, air quality there is, is sub twenty all the time.

    19. NKNikhil Kamath1:40:44

        You're talking to real estate king.

    20. PPPrashanth Prakash1:40:46

        Mm.

    21. NKNikhil Kamath1:40:46

        What happens to real estate [laughing] in central Bangalore-

    22. SPSpeaker1:40:49

        [laughing] Seema Kamath: [chuckles]

    23. NKNikhil Kamath1:40:49

        ... if everybody starts thinking like that?

    24. PPPrashanth Prakash1:40:51

        No, but I, I think, uh, it's a, it's a problem on multiple dimensions, right? I don't think it's about vehicular traffic, right?

    25. NKNikhil Kamath1:41:00

        Mm.

    26. PPPrashanth Prakash1:41:00

        There's construction, right? All our cities are going through tremendous construction, and I don't know if this is a five-year, ten-year... From what I hear, I don't know-

    27. SPSpeaker1:41:09

        Pune also

    28. PPPrashanth Prakash1:41:10

        ... maybe you have a better sense, but they're saying Mumbai before construction and Mumbai after construction, one thing that has changed is the AQI quality.

    29. JCJitendra Chouksey1:41:18

        See, it's not just a problem pertaining to Mumbai, because practically, if I were to move from Pune to Delhi, I would feel sick, because the difference in air quality is substantial. So your body takes a few days to acclimatize, uh, and just adjust to that environment. So if suddenly you are moving from, let's say, a sub-thirty AQI to, let's say, one forty, um, it would have a drastic effect. So you would feel that sudden itching.

    30. NKNikhil Kamath1:41:41

        I was surprised that... Because we also live here, right?
19. 1:46:05 – 1:50:00

    Lifestyle Management Opps | Fittr

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:46:05

       through ten tenets of longevity.

    2. PPPrashanth Prakash1:46:09

       Okay.

    3. NKNikhil Kamath1:46:10

       Which we can add to or minus from, depending on how they sound, and we can all opine on what we think, and somebody comes up with a business idea for each one of them. Theek hai? First one, lifestyle management. Actively managing diet, sleep, exercise, alcohol, smoking, stress, to slow aging. [laughing]

    4. JCJitendra Chouksey1:46:35

       [laughing]

    5. NKNikhil Kamath1:46:35

       [laughing]

    6. JCJitendra Chouksey1:46:35

       There, there's this amazing company-

    7. NKNikhil Kamath1:46:37

       Uh?

    8. JCJitendra Chouksey1:46:37

       ... called FITTR. [laughing]

    9. NKNikhil Kamath1:46:40

       [laughing]

    10. SPSpeaker1:46:41

        [laughing]

    11. JCJitendra Chouksey1:46:41

        That does just that.

    12. NKNikhil Kamath1:46:43

        [chuckles]

    13. JCJitendra Chouksey1:46:43

        And you know, it's amazing.

    14. NKNikhil Kamath1:46:44

        I'm a subscriber, but if I'm having a drink, you're not looking at me.

    15. JCJitendra Chouksey1:46:49

        [laughing]

    16. NKNikhil Kamath1:46:50

        How are you managing it?

    17. JCJitendra Chouksey1:46:51

        You know, subconsciously, we're making you feel guilty. [laughing]

    18. SPSpeaker1:46:54

        [laughing]

    19. JCJitendra Chouksey1:46:54

        You know, hoping that someday you'll give up. [laughing]

    20. NKNikhil Kamath1:46:57

        So what is FITTR's business idea? Explain it.

    21. JCJitendra Chouksey1:46:59

        It's primarily coaching. So we have customers in hundred plus countries, and so personalized coaching, where somebody like me would talk to Chaitanya or a Seema, and then we'd basically ask the same questions: "How's your diet? How's your sleep?" And it's- it all boils down to basics. Most of the people are not getting their basics right. So educating them, uh, getting their basics in order, and then showing them results. That's what we do.

    22. NKNikhil Kamath1:47:24

        And are you coaching me via a screen, and how much are you charging me per session?

    23. JCJitendra Chouksey1:47:29

        I'm not charging you anything.

    24. NKNikhil Kamath1:47:30

        I know. Thank you.

    25. SPSpeaker1:47:31

        [laughing]

    26. NKNikhil Kamath1:47:31

        But how much do you charge per session? [laughing]

    27. JCJitendra Chouksey1:47:33

        [laughing] So, uh, uh, FITTR starts at roughly seventeen hundred rupees a month.

    28. NKNikhil Kamath1:47:39

        Right.

    29. JCJitendra Chouksey1:47:39

        Everything is virtual.

    30. NKNikhil Kamath1:47:40

        Right.
20. 1:50:00 – 1:59:16

    Consumer Diagnostics Opps | BioPeak

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:50:00

       of longevity, consumer diagnostics. [laughing]

    2. PPPrashanth Prakash1:50:05

       [laughing]

    3. NKNikhil Kamath1:50:06

       What's happening in the world of diagnostics?

    4. PPPrashanth Prakash1:50:09

       Diagnostics, right. So I think, uh, you know, just moving a step higher in terms of-- so we are in this, I think, a unique moment, uh, in our lives, right? Uh, uh, beyond the Do Not Die moment that we've discussed. I think where we have these, uh, advanced screening modalities, you know, multiple modalities that are becoming more affordable, coming out from the lab to mainstream, right? Beyond blood biochemistry. We have, uh, better understanding of, uh, not only the structure of our gut and our microbiome, but the function of it, right? How do we measure the function? Which is very different, actually. You can kind of talk lat-later more about that, right? So screen, so looking at that, then, uh, you also have metabolites. We did speak about it. Fundamentally, metabolic pathways, what, uh, JC was also talking about, how do you get a better under-the-hood idea of your metabolic pathways and be able to measure them? And then finally, all of this is a lot of data, right? If you didn't have AI, you just can't make sense of all of this. So building all of this into a model that can be, you know, uh, worked through a not just GenAI, right? So something like this requires ML, requires data engineering, and requires a different, uh, type of, uh, you know, a, a, a more comprehensive, uh, you know, machine learning model to be able to finally act as a agentic co-pilot, co-assist for somebody who can, as a, as, um, as one, one of JC's coaches or consultants, should be able to use this tool to be a bit more precise. So it's not the diagnostics that is the idea, I think it's being able to make those diagnostics actionable, and that's where AI, uh, can actually help. Uh, because otherwise, the type of expertise required to really, uh, you know, make sense of all this data is something that very few people can get to that level of expertise and training, and it just won't be practical and scalable. So, so it's-- this is a huge opportunity, very early days, and there's a final dimension on this, which, uh, is also what JC is u-using, which is longitudinally kind of tracking somebody and seeing what is changing. So that's a-- maybe that's one more, uh, of, of the, uh, your longevity, uh, things there. But do not... It's, it's not about the one time, right? It's about then the, what, what the coach tells you, what this health manager tells you, and then can you remeasure, and how often do you do that remeasurement, right? Is it monthly? Is it quarterly? But at some cadence, you need to be able to do that. And again, an AI tool is needed to say, "What is really changing, and the, is there a correlation between what you did and what changed?" So it's, it's, it's a, it's a open wide space-

    5. NKNikhil Kamath1:53:51

       Can you tell us the business model of BioPeaq and what you're doing differently? Why should I come to you and not go to Thyrocare? Also, the money, how much will you charge a client?

    6. PPPrashanth Prakash1:54:00

       Yeah.

    7. NKNikhil Kamath1:54:01

       How much does it cost you for the equipment?

    8. PPPrashanth Prakash1:54:03

       So first of all, uh, um, why do you go to Thyrocare? Because, uh, some doctor told you there is a... I mean, first of all, why did you go to a doctor? You went there because you think there is some- some, some, something medically that's bothering you, right? And most doctors are specialists, so they specialize in a particular organ, a particular function of your body, right? And they-- when they send you for a test, they actually send you for a test for that organ, for that functioning of that particular portion of your body, right? That's, we think, Medicine 1.0, 2.0, and that's the old way of doing it. The Medicine 3.0 approach would be to take a more systemic, whole-body approach and, and look at, you know, whether it is your metabolism, whether it is your, um... how, how good is your cognitive function? How good is your, your physical and, uh, performance, uh, uh, at, at a muscular and at a range of motion level, right? So can you, can you look at things slightly more holistically and integrate them into a more informed view of your current state, right? And marry that with genetics.... and with that, predict where should be your focus. I don't think doctors ever, do- doctors will tell you what to fi-- I mean, what, what, you, you go to a lab, you measure some, you measure something, you take a medicine for that, and you try to fix that specific problem, right? So there is no whole body approach. There is no system, uh, approach. So that's where BioPeak-

    9. NKNikhil Kamath1:56:15

       And like I asked JC, how much would I have to pay BioPeak?

    10. PPPrashanth Prakash1:56:18

        So we think that, uh, you know, an entry price should be somewhere in the, uh, eighty, eighty, ninety thousand rupees to do this-

    11. NKNikhil Kamath1:56:28

        Per?

    12. PPPrashanth Prakash1:56:29

        Which, which includes the screen, the whole-

    13. NKNikhil Kamath1:56:32

        Per year?

    14. PPPrashanth Prakash1:56:32

        No, it includes the screen, plus maybe two to three months of follow-up on the intervention. But then we'll have packages where you take a whole yearly memberships, right?

    15. NKNikhil Kamath1:56:45

        But you're like a rich person product. I've read about these longevity startups which are becoming like members club for rich people.

    16. PPPrashanth Prakash1:56:51

        Yeah, so that's the-

    17. NKNikhil Kamath1:56:52

        This is that?

    18. PPPrashanth Prakash1:56:53

        ... that's, that's the second product that we will have, which is, uh, you know, the community, the club, uh, you know, equivalent to a family health office, you know? Right. Just like you have a, a wealth manager, you have a health manager who's dedicated to you, who's clinically competent. So who's not just, um, you know, uh, one-dimensional in what... So, so the person could, should be able to, uh, you know, be able to manage your nutritional biochemistry, should be able to manage your exercise optimally, your sleep optimally. So all of that, uh, and there we will partner with, uh, various folks who can become health managers, right? So we don't have to... But I think various health managers will require this kind of diagnostics. So I think, uh, the health management, uh, could have a very high-end, uh, you know, club model, which could cost, uh, maybe ten thousand dollars a year. And I don't know, JC, what do you charge for a year for, uh, uh- [chuckles]

    19. JCJitendra Chouksey1:57:57

        Comparatively very cheap. [chuckles]

    20. PPPrashanth Prakash1:57:59

        Ah, so, so, so that, that's another... Uh, but, but I think what we're talking about is empowering health managers with tools that will help them be more precise-

    21. NKNikhil Kamath1:58:10

        Mm.

    22. PPPrashanth Prakash1:58:10

        -and more predictive.

    23. NKNikhil Kamath1:58:11

        So where's the entrepreneurship opportunity here for a twenty-five-year-old?

    24. PPPrashanth Prakash1:58:15

        I think, uh, to, to be able to use... I mean, so like I said, we don't want to build every aspect of the business, right? So, so let's say I'm a, a, a trainer today, right? Uh, as a trainer, uh, or a, a, um, a nu- nutritional coach, right, what am I basing some of my, uh, advisory or, uh, the, um, uh, interventions or the guidance I'm giving my, uh... I think, uh, they'll be able to, uh, function better with data, and I, I think that's what we feel these tools can empower, that we can build. So the- I think every, every coach who is providing, you know, some, uh, aspect of, uh, you know, intervention and support will be able to do better with BioPeak, with data.

    25. JCJitendra Chouksey1:59:14

        So, you know, you know, Nikhil, um,

21. 1:59:16 – 2:13:33

    Building India Focused Datasets

    1. JCJitendra Chouksey1:59:16

       I just want to add because, uh, I, I think it might skip my mind, he mentioned datasets. India does not have this, uh, dataset, so there's a huge opportunity for somebody to just build into this.

    2. NKNikhil Kamath1:59:26

       How do they go about it? How does a-

    3. JCJitendra Chouksey1:59:28

       So-

    4. NKNikhil Kamath1:59:28

       ... young person build a business out of this?

    5. JCJitendra Chouksey1:59:30

       So AI needs to train on data, right? And we ran into this problem when we were trying to figure out, uh, you know, blood pressure. So, for example, any smart wearable, right? They use regression as a tool to estimate any of these parameters. They don't directly predict these parameters because they are non-invasive, right? So for regression, you need to have a very large dataset. And unfortunately, in India, you don't have datasets. So all the datasets that you have are US-based datasets. And so today, there's a huge... Uh, we have the datasets. It's unorganized. You have the pharma companies, you have hospitals, but nobody has done the job of pulling medical data and put it, put it in, into a trainable dataset.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath2:00:13

       But why would a hospital share that data?

    7. JCJitendra Chouksey2:00:15

       Uh, that's important.

    8. PPPrashanth Prakash2:00:16

       And that's where-

    9. JCJitendra Chouksey2:00:16

       If India has to ever build anything that it can truly call its own, like if India needs to become a pioneer in AI, it will need to have the datasets. Today, we are talking about blood pressure estimation or, let's say, uh, you know, your HRV estimation. Tomorrow it could be detection of, let's say, tuberculosis-

    10. NKNikhil Kamath2:00:33

        Mm

    11. JCJitendra Chouksey2:00:33

        ... or something else. All this data is available in hospitals, but it's not digital, it's not trainable. So if somebody says, "Hey, I'm gonna build the largest dataset in India for medical data so that future AIs can be trained on-"

    12. PPPrashanth Prakash2:00:45

        But that's, that's essentially what the government is trying to do, right?

    13. JCJitendra Chouksey2:00:48

        Yeah.

    14. PPPrashanth Prakash2:00:48

        Which is to-

    15. JCJitendra Chouksey2:00:49

        Well, the-

    16. PPPrashanth Prakash2:00:50

        -digitize the medical records.

    17. JCJitendra Chouksey2:00:51

        Yeah, but that's-

    18. PPPrashanth Prakash2:00:52

        But they, but they don't have the right, uh... You know, it's, it's a data engineering problem-

    19. JCJitendra Chouksey2:00:56

        Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

    20. PPPrashanth Prakash2:00:57

        ... like you said, right? So you'll have all the data-

    21. JCJitendra Chouksey2:00:58

        Right

    22. PPPrashanth Prakash2:00:59

        ... but, uh, you know, in, in, how do you kind of bring it together?

    23. JCJitendra Chouksey2:01:03

        Right. You need trainable data.

    24. PPPrashanth Prakash2:01:04

        I think it's, uh-

    25. JCJitendra Chouksey2:01:05

        You need trainable data

    26. PPPrashanth Prakash2:01:05

        ... and make, make it usable, I think is not something that the government does today.

    27. JCJitendra Chouksey2:01:09

        No, I have one question about, uh... So, you know, you come get yourself tested.

    28. PPPrashanth Prakash2:01:15

        Yes.

    29. JCJitendra Chouksey2:01:16

        And you find, say, a certain marker is in, is in, not in the optimal range.

    30. PPPrashanth Prakash2:01:22

        Correct.
22. 2:13:33 – 2:20:53

    Influencers in the Longevity space

    1. SPSpeaker2:13:33

       in on a podcast, Dave Asprey, and-

    2. PPPrashanth Prakash2:13:37

       Mm

    3. SPSpeaker2:13:38

       ... he was talking about kava. Do you know about kava?

    4. PPPrashanth Prakash2:13:41

       Yeah.

    5. SPSpeaker2:13:41

       It's a-

    6. PPPrashanth Prakash2:13:42

       Sorry, what?

    7. SPSpeaker2:13:42

       Kava.

    8. PPPrashanth Prakash2:13:43

       Kava, kava.

    9. SPSpeaker2:13:44

       Apparently-

    10. SKSeema Kamath2:13:45

        K-A-V-A?

    11. SPSpeaker2:13:45

        K-A-V-A.

    12. JCJitendra Chouksey2:13:46

        Kava, kava.

    13. SPSpeaker2:13:47

        So, so it's a type of drink, uh, which is made from the roots of a, uh, some kind of vegetable or fruit or whatever, and people are drinking it to get slightly intoxicated.... and, and, and it's, it's becoming popular in the US apparently. So, so yeah, so kava drink, you know.

    14. JCJitendra Chouksey2:14:08

        And, uh-

    15. NKNikhil Kamath2:14:09

        Even coffee is intoxicating, right?

    16. JCJitendra Chouksey2:14:10

        Dave Asprey, do you have-

    17. SPSpeaker2:14:11

        Yeah, caffeine.

    18. JCJitendra Chouksey2:14:12

        Yeah, Dave Asprey, I have my own, uh, I don't know. [chuckles]

    19. SPSpeaker2:14:14

        Yeah, same. I, I share the same thing. [chuckles]

    20. JCJitendra Chouksey2:14:15

        So we share the same thing on- [chuckles]

    21. NKNikhil Kamath2:14:17

        So who is good?

    22. SPSpeaker2:14:19

        Dave Asprey is not. [chuckles]

    23. NKNikhil Kamath2:14:19

        I know, I know your views on Bryan. Let's go to the next one. [chuckles]

    24. JCJitendra Chouksey2:14:23

        No, no-

    25. NKNikhil Kamath2:14:23

        Huberman?

    26. JCJitendra Chouksey2:14:24

        I think, I think honestly-

    27. SPSpeaker2:14:25

        Bryan, I think we both-

    28. JCJitendra Chouksey2:14:26

        We both agree the same thing, that he does more right than wrong. Like his basics and everything is in order. What I have problem with is some of the experimental therapeutics, the hundred pills and everything. Most of these things are unvalidated. So as long as he's keeping those experiments in check, and he's doing it on himself as a science experiment, good. I'm just saying don't preach those experiments on people, because you are doing follistatin, you are replacing your albumin, uh, your blood plasma with albumin. People are going to do that. And these are, first of all, very expensive treatments with side effects.

    29. NKNikhil Kamath2:15:00

        But if nobody does the research, how do, how do we ever innovate?

    30. JCJitendra Chouksey2:15:03

        No, no, so, so that's what he's saying. To do it yourself, but don't say that-
23. 2:20:53 – 2:34:12

    Cancer Recurrence Detection

    1. PPPrashanth Prakash2:20:53

       I, I, I think, uh, the other challenge a lot of cancer, uh, survivors would have-

    2. NKNikhil Kamath2:20:58

       Mm

    3. PPPrashanth Prakash2:20:58

       ... is, uh, how do I know that this thing is not going to recover, right? Uh, recur, right? And for recurrence, is, is there certain markers again that I can be more proactive and predictive?

    4. SKSeema Kamath2:21:11

       No, also-

    5. PPPrashanth Prakash2:21:12

       Yeah

    6. SKSeema Kamath2:21:12

       ... oncologists, right, in India are very-

    7. PPPrashanth Prakash2:21:14

       Yeah.

    8. SKSeema Kamath2:21:14

       I mean, it's very black and white.

    9. PPPrashanth Prakash2:21:16

       Yeah.

    10. SKSeema Kamath2:21:16

        You have to take this pill so that you don't, you-

    11. NKNikhil Kamath2:21:20

        That hormone you keep saying you have to take for six years or something-

    12. SKSeema Kamath2:21:22

        Yeah

    13. NKNikhil Kamath2:21:22

        ... but you don't want to take.

    14. PPPrashanth Prakash2:21:23

        Yeah.

    15. SKSeema Kamath2:21:24

        E-exactly, right? But then over time, uh, that... I mean, that tablet has a side effect that it might cause cervical cancer.

    16. NKNikhil Kamath2:21:33

        In muscle, in workout, and all that.

    17. SKSeema Kamath2:21:35

        Exactly. Uh, you know, my, um, bone density is not very great. It's not deteriorating, but it's not even getting better. I have joint pains. Uh, I have hot flashes. I'm, I mean, so I'm, like, thinking, "Do I want to live, you know, take this pill for the next, whatever, seven, eight years and live like this?" One... I mean, just through, just that ops- chance that I, you know, I won't get cancer, or do I want to live a good quality of life, just maintain a healthy diet and be like, you know what? And, and not take the pill.

    18. NKNikhil Kamath2:22:11

        So it seems you've had a couple of years of torture. I've seen you gone, go through operation, I don't know, half a dozen times in the last two years. What could have made the experience better for you? The entire thing, from the beginning, from going to Noora, getting detected, to finding a doctor in Manipal, then here, then there, then surgery, then plastic surgery.

    19. SKSeema Kamath2:22:38

        If I think back, um, see, I mean, luckily, we are in a position that it wasn't very bad for me, but then-

    20. NKNikhil Kamath2:22:51

        What does that mean?

    21. SKSeema Kamath2:22:51

        If I... In the sense, I had family support. We-

    22. PPPrashanth Prakash2:22:55

        Financially.

    23. NKNikhil Kamath2:22:55

        Financially.

    24. SKSeema Kamath2:22:55

        A financial independence. We didn't have to really think about money, because that's the first thing, right? Like, because my question to her when she said, "I have breast cancer," was reconstructive surgery. But she said, "Normal people ask how much the surgery will cost," right? The mastectomy. So but then if I think, like, from a, you know, [inhales] woman's perspective, I think firstly, no one even bothered about my mental state of mind. It was all about just, um, "Oh, cancer? We have to do this, this, this." Also, just to find the right doctors, I mean, it was so difficult. It's, it's not easy to find the right oncologist, especially without, I mean, you know, any, uh... Like we had- I mean, you knew a lot of people, so we figured it out. But I would really... I mean, it'll be great if there is a database where I know everyone will have different experience with them.

    25. NKNikhil Kamath2:23:58

        You think like a doctor ranking system business?

    26. JCJitendra Chouksey2:24:00

        A curated marketplace for doctors.

    27. PPPrashanth Prakash2:24:02

        No, I think this is-

    28. SKSeema Kamath2:24:03

        Even that is-

    29. PPPrashanth Prakash2:24:04

        This is an area in BioPeek-

    30. JCJitendra Chouksey2:24:05

        Yeah
24. 2:34:12 – 2:39:40

    Health Gadgets

    1. NKNikhil Kamath2:34:12

       Whoop or a Ul- Ultrahuman, Apple, Google- [laughing]

    2. SPSpeaker2:34:18

       [laughing] Yeah, go on

    3. NKNikhil Kamath2:34:19

       ... JC FITTR. [laughing]

    4. SPSpeaker2:34:20

       [laughing]

    5. NKNikhil Kamath2:34:20

       What device do we buy? One device.

    6. SPSpeaker2:34:23

       Uh-

    7. JCJitendra Chouksey2:34:23

       D- don't say anything. [chuckles]

    8. NKNikhil Kamath2:34:24

       I know your answer, but I'll ask you. [laughing]

    9. SPSpeaker2:34:26

       [chuckles] It's a heart ring.

    10. JCJitendra Chouksey2:34:29

        Uh, you know, I, I, I might be the only one who would be able to explain you what each of these things do.

    11. PPPrashanth Prakash2:34:33

        No, no, you please go ahead.

    12. JCJitendra Chouksey2:34:34

        And help-

    13. NKNikhil Kamath2:34:34

        Yeah, yeah, go for it.

    14. PPPrashanth Prakash2:34:36

        Please go ahead.

    15. JCJitendra Chouksey2:34:36

        Help you improve them-

    16. NKNikhil Kamath2:34:37

        [chuckles]

    17. JCJitendra Chouksey2:34:37

        - because most of the people who buy these gadgets, right, they don't know what to do next. I think that's... And that actually is the problem we were trying to solve. We didn't want to be like another gadget. First, we sent out a proposal to these companies, and we're like: "Hey, we have a community. We have coaches. We are amazing at, you know, helping people fix their lifestyles. Uh, why don't you guys partner with us?" And when we didn't show any response, then we looked at, can we do something of our own? So it was like w- watches, bands, and they were like, "Okay, ring is the best," because it technically has the more number of hours of people wearing them, because watches tend to get uncomfortable. And so today, our differentiation is not the hardware. The differentiation is, look, here's a hardware which is decently good. It provides all the metrics as accurately as any other devices, uh, probably better than smartwatches. But you look at the metrics, and what next, right? Which is where you keep wondering. If you are with somebody else, you'll be like: "Hey, this is my VO2 max." Now, what the hell is VO2 max? Or, "This is my RHR. What the hell does my RHR indicate?" Or, "What is this HRV fluctuation happening? What should I measure?" Right, so even though there's a lot of data on what these are, there's no data on how can you systematically get them better.

    18. NKNikhil Kamath2:35:54

        So it's not about the device, it's what sits on top of the device.

    19. PPPrashanth Prakash2:35:56

        But, uh, JC, um, um, things like, let's say, how your activity is measured, right? Are there s- some such functions where one device is better than the other?

    20. JCJitendra Chouksey2:36:10

        Yes. So it all depends on sampling rate. For example, again, you have Apple Watch, for instance. They don't sample your heart rate as frequently as, let's say, a Whoop.

    21. PPPrashanth Prakash2:36:18

        Mm, yeah.

    22. JCJitendra Chouksey2:36:19

        So in terms of sampling, Whoop has the highest sampling rate-

    23. PPPrashanth Prakash2:36:21

        Sampling, yeah

    24. JCJitendra Chouksey2:36:21

        ... and that's why it's most accurate. So when we do calculation for certain things, like for example, HR, SpO2, and HRV-

    25. PPPrashanth Prakash2:36:28

        Yeah

    26. JCJitendra Chouksey2:36:28

        ... these are pretty standard functions. Most of the devices will get them accurately, right? But when we talk about, let's say, calorie expenditure-

    27. PPPrashanth Prakash2:36:35

        And activities, I think then Whoop kind of-

    28. JCJitendra Chouksey2:36:37

        Right. So Whoop would be far more accurate because-

    29. PPPrashanth Prakash2:36:40

        Yeah

    30. JCJitendra Chouksey2:36:40

        ... it's sampling the heart rate every minute, and then because of that, it's using a better formula, which is your heart rate load.
25. 2:39:40 – 3:06:55

    Longevity Supplements Opps & Growth Hormones

    1. SPSpeaker2:39:40

       supplements, this is the big one. Everybody will-

    2. PPPrashanth Prakash2:39:43

       [laughing]

    3. SPSpeaker2:39:44

       I know we're all taking different things. [laughing]

    4. JCJitendra Chouksey2:39:46

       I mean-

    5. SPSpeaker2:39:46

       Even though JC might say no-

    6. PPPrashanth Prakash2:39:48

       JC

    7. SPSpeaker2:39:48

       ... in his head, I know he's getting something. [laughing]

    8. PPPrashanth Prakash2:39:50

       I'm not, I'm not taking anything. I can go on record and tell you guys, I'm not taking anything. [chuckles]

    9. SPSpeaker2:39:54

       I was looking through your bag, and I found this growth hormone needle. [laughing]

    10. JCJitendra Chouksey2:40:06

        [laughing]

    11. PPPrashanth Prakash2:40:06

        [laughing] No.

    12. SPSpeaker2:40:06

        I didn't bring it back.

    13. PPPrashanth Prakash2:40:08

        No, I think supplements will continue to be a huge business.

    14. JCJitendra Chouksey2:40:11

        Yeah.

    15. SPSpeaker2:40:11

        Yeah.

    16. PPPrashanth Prakash2:40:12

        Huge business.

    17. JCJitendra Chouksey2:40:12

        Unfortunately, yes, it's going to be a huge business because-

    18. SPSpeaker2:40:15

        Okay, what works?

    19. JCJitendra Chouksey2:40:16

        There's a lot of takers.

    20. SPSpeaker2:40:16

        What should one take?

    21. PPPrashanth Prakash2:40:18

        I don't know what works.

    22. SPSpeaker2:40:18

        I get Bryan's logic. It makes sense.

    23. PPPrashanth Prakash2:40:19

        No, but-

    24. SPSpeaker2:40:20

        What less you should take?

    25. PPPrashanth Prakash2:40:20

        -but I think, again, I'm going back to-

    26. SPSpeaker2:40:22

        Yeah

    27. PPPrashanth Prakash2:40:22

        ... you know, JC will agree that you have to measure, right? And that's where-

    28. SPSpeaker2:40:26

        But without measuring, what would you recommend?

    29. JCJitendra Chouksey2:40:29

        Vitamin D.

    30. PPPrashanth Prakash2:40:30

        No, no, no. Actually-

Episode duration: 3:29:49