WTF Ep# 16 | What character "flaws" make the best entrepreneurs? Nikhil ft.Ritesh, Ghazal and Manish

1. 0:00 – 1:54

   Introduction and Objective of this Episode

   1. NKNikhil Kamath0:00

      whenever a young 21-year-old boy or girl wants to know what makes startup founders, people like yourself successful, they get generic [beep] . We don't want to know what you've said already, so intent here was to ask you non-usual questions. [upbeat music] Okay, guys, welcome, uh, all three of you. Thank you guys for coming.

   2. NKNikhil Kamath0:42

      Pleasure.

   3. NKNikhil Kamath0:43

      The very first thing we do when we call people is we try to get to know them in a manner that even they haven't spoken online or it's not available. So we don't want to know any of the stuff. You're all popular people. You've done interviews. Uh, we don't want to know what you've said already, so we'll try and nudge it in a direction, uh, which will help us learn a bit more about you. And, uh, for the point of this show, uh, there's no drama, there's no like, uh, you know, trying to get a reaction out of anyone. It's very much focused on a 20-year-old boy or girl, and when they are starting off, uh, what can they learn from the learnings you've had without any filters? Uh, we did a venture capital episode, and we came to the conclusion that 90, 95% of startups fail. You three have succeeded, and you must have done something differently, and today is about finding out what that could be and how other people can learn from it. So maybe we can start

2. 1:54 – 5:24

   Who is Ghazal Alagh? | Childhood Learnings and Struggle

   1. NKNikhil Kamath1:54

      with Ghazal. Tell us about your life from the very beginning, from childhood, all of that, and take as much time-

   2. NKNikhil Kamath2:03

      And what others don't know yet.

   3. NKNikhil Kamath2:04

      Yes.

   4. GAGhazal Alagh2:05

      What others don't know? I, I think others don't know a lot about, um-

   5. NKNikhil Kamath2:09

      Anyone

   6. GAGhazal Alagh2:09

      ... how confused and how, um, I would say I was still figuring it out for the longest period of time, until eventually, of course, people started believing that this is the definition of success, and that's for others, right? Uh, so I come from a humble middle-class family. I was born and brought up in Chandigarh. Uh, up till my marriage, Chandigarh was the only place that I'd stayed in, because the background that my parents come from, where I've come from, uh, they're not... They were not very pro sending women out for jobs or working. So that's, that's the, uh, you know, the childhood that I've experienced. I was probably the first woman in my family to go out and work. Uh, but the only difference between the rest of my family and my parents was, um, the conviction that both my parents had to ensure that our kids are going to be independent in life.

   7. NKNikhil Kamath3:09

      Was this in Chandigarh?

   8. GAGhazal Alagh3:10

      In Chandigarh itself.

   9. NKNikhil Kamath3:11

      Mm.

   10. GAGhazal Alagh3:11

       So, like I said, up till my marriage-

   11. NKNikhil Kamath3:14

       Mm.

   12. GAGhazal Alagh3:14

       -Chandigarh was my geographical, uh-

   13. NKNikhil Kamath3:16

       A very pretty geography.

   14. GAGhazal Alagh3:18

       Beautiful!

   15. NKNikhil Kamath3:18

       Mm.

   16. GAGhazal Alagh3:18

       It's called the City Beautiful, right?

   17. NKNikhil Kamath3:20

       Mm.

   18. GAGhazal Alagh3:20

       I love that place. I think till today, that's my favorite city.

   19. NKNikhil Kamath3:23

       Mm.

   20. GAGhazal Alagh3:23

       Uh, but while I was growing up, that wasn't the case, because I s- I saw potential outside the city, but I was not sort of allowed to explore it. I was told that within this five kilometer of radius, whatever you want to do, feel free to do it, feel free to pick it up.

   21. NKNikhil Kamath3:40

       Mm-hmm.

   22. GAGhazal Alagh3:41

       Um, so that's how my, um, you know-

   23. NKNikhil Kamath3:43

       What did your parents do?

   24. GAGhazal Alagh3:44

       So my father, um, continues to be a businessman. Um, very interesting story. I think first lessons in entrepreneurship is, um, I learned from him when I was in standard eight.

   25. NKNikhil Kamath3:55

       Mm.

   26. GAGhazal Alagh3:56

       Um, so big joint family. Uh, my father has three brothers and five sisters, so eight kids in total. Uh, grew up with a lot of love, um, but eventually realized that a business that was being run by brothers when the parents were no long- their parents, my grandparents, were no longer there, um, there was certain friction that started coming in, and there was a unfair distribution of wealth.

   27. NKNikhil Kamath4:23

       That happens everywhere, no? All the time.

   28. GAGhazal Alagh4:25

       I, I, it does.

   29. NKNikhil Kamath4:27

       Mm.

   30. GAGhazal Alagh4:27

       There are a lot of stories. I experienced it for the first time, and with my own father.
3. 5:24 – 8:02

   School life and Insecurities

   1. NKNikhil Kamath5:24

      I feel like great entrepreneurs such as yourself, when asked the question, "Why are you successful?" often give the very generic, rehearsed thing that is common to everybody. But I feel like it's not because somebody's trying to lie, but we don't realize ourself what insecurities we have deep inside-

   2. GAGhazal Alagh5:49

      Yeah

   3. NKNikhil Kamath5:49

      ... which pushed us to do a certain thing.

   4. GAGhazal Alagh5:50

      Yes.

   5. NKNikhil Kamath5:51

      Hence, the little unusual backgrounds.

   6. GAGhazal Alagh5:53

      Absolutely.

   7. NKNikhil Kamath5:54

      Yeah.

   8. GAGhazal Alagh5:54

      So for that matter, over the years-

   9. NKNikhil Kamath5:56

      Mm.

   10. GAGhazal Alagh5:56

       ... and this is very recent, last two to three years, what I've realized is-... the reason for my success is not because of anything that I've done in the last five to seven years of building the business. It actually goes back to my childhood and the way my attitude got shaped because of different events that happened. And the perspective towards looking at some of those, be it problems, be it circumstances, be it the attitude of how do you take a decision, has shaped because of certain incidents which have happened, which I might not have liked back then when I was going through them, but truly have shaped me to be the person that I am.

   11. NKNikhil Kamath6:34

       So what changed in you, Ghazal the person? Were you a good student, age 12, 13?

   12. GAGhazal Alagh6:38

       I was always a very good student. For that matter, till grade 10, I was amongst the top five-

   13. NKNikhil Kamath6:43

       Mm.

   14. GAGhazal Alagh6:43

       -in my class, I was the sports captain, and I was also the best artist in the entire school.

   15. NKNikhil Kamath6:49

       Okay, so the overachieving Ghazal-

   16. GAGhazal Alagh6:50

       So an all-rounder.

   17. NKNikhil Kamath6:51

       Overachieving Ghazal-

   18. GAGhazal Alagh6:52

       [laughs]

   19. NKNikhil Kamath6:53

       -at age 12.

   20. GAGhazal Alagh6:54

       Yeah.

   21. NKNikhil Kamath6:54

       Young girl-

   22. GAGhazal Alagh6:55

       Yeah

   23. NKNikhil Kamath6:55

       ... going to a school in Chandigarh, watches her father and her brothers, his brothers go through a difficult time. What changed in you pre and post that event?

   24. GAGhazal Alagh7:08

       I think one thing that I realized for the first time in my life was the helplessness that I had in that situation.

   25. NKNikhil Kamath7:14

       Helplessness around money?

   26. GAGhazal Alagh7:15

       Right. Helplessness around comforting my father.

   27. NKNikhil Kamath7:19

       Mm.

   28. GAGhazal Alagh7:19

       Money didn't come into the picture then-

   29. NKNikhil Kamath7:21

       Mm

   30. GAGhazal Alagh7:21

       ... because it took a while for me to realize that, okay, now money is also a problem.
4. 8:02 – 12:50

   Ghazal's special relationship with her mother

   1. GAGhazal Alagh8:02

      mother had to correct the situations, and she had been a housewife all through her life. Um, it was beautiful. Um, she pulled out all her gold savings, sold it, brought in some money, helped Papa put inventory back into the shop, into the shop to a way-

   2. NKNikhil Kamath8:21

      What was the business?

   3. GAGhazal Alagh8:23

      So he was into accessories of all of these cars and trucks, like-

   4. NKNikhil Kamath8:27

      Okay

   5. GAGhazal Alagh8:28

      ... that entire business. I still don't know how to-

   6. NKNikhil Kamath8:30

      Music system

   7. GAGhazal Alagh8:30

      ... call it out.

   8. NKNikhil Kamath8:31

      Yeah.

   9. GAGhazal Alagh8:31

      Yeah, yeah, all of that, right? I still don't know how to-

   10. NKNikhil Kamath8:34

       Audio and-

   11. GAGhazal Alagh8:34

       ... how to accurately describe the business.

   12. NKNikhil Kamath8:36

       Mufflers and-

   13. GAGhazal Alagh8:37

       Um, but that's what my brother still continues to do, by the way. [laughs]

   14. NKNikhil Kamath8:40

       Oh, interesting.

   15. GAGhazal Alagh8:41

       Uh, but he was into that, but, um, the division happened in a way that the shop that he got was under a lot of debt. There were a lot of, like, uh, receivables that had to be recovered from the market, and we knew that was like a dead money already. He knew that it was a dead money. It was not going to come in.

   16. NKNikhil Kamath8:59

       And how much debt, to attribute a number to it?

   17. GAGhazal Alagh9:02

       I think it would be anywhere between 40 to 50 lakhs back then.

   18. NKNikhil Kamath9:06

       Versus-

   19. GAGhazal Alagh9:06

       That was a big amount, like-

   20. NKNikhil Kamath9:08

       Yeah, yeah

   21. GAGhazal Alagh9:08

       ... it, it crumbled the hell out of us.

   22. NKNikhil Kamath9:10

       Versus income of four, five lakhs a year?

   23. SPSpeaker9:13

       I don't think you'll be able to know.

   24. GAGhazal Alagh9:14

       Versus an income of-

   25. SPSpeaker9:16

       But now probably she knows

   26. GAGhazal Alagh9:16

       ... around a lakh a month.

   27. NKNikhil Kamath9:18

       Right.

   28. GAGhazal Alagh9:19

       Yeah. So that was the kind of debt that we were looking at, and we could clearly see for the next four to five years, this is not going to come in.

   29. NKNikhil Kamath9:25

       Mm.

   30. GAGhazal Alagh9:25

       And for me to put in inventory, I don't have anything left-
5. 12:50 – 18:50

   How life changed for Ghazal in high school

   1. NKNikhil Kamath12:50

      10th, you were still, like, grade A student?

   2. GAGhazal Alagh12:53

      Till 10th.

   3. NKNikhil Kamath12:54

      After that-

   4. GAGhazal Alagh12:54

      Then life changed for me completely.

   5. NKNikhil Kamath12:56

      Yeah.

   6. GAGhazal Alagh12:57

      I took that, after that, you can relax, but seriously-

   7. NKNikhil Kamath12:59

      Did you come to terms with the fact that you're good-looking after 10th?

   8. GAGhazal Alagh13:04

      Oh, no, no, that's another story itself.

   9. NKNikhil Kamath13:05

      Life changed how?

   10. GAGhazal Alagh13:06

       Good-looking तो आया ही नहीं इस picture में। मतलब, like, where, where's that gone?

   11. NKNikhil Kamath13:10

       It's a compliment, ji.

   12. NKNikhil Kamath13:11

       For-

   13. NKNikhil Kamath13:11

       I'm just trying to figure out-

   14. NKNikhil Kamath13:12

       Compliment पर thank you बोल दीजिएं, फिर-

   15. GAGhazal Alagh13:14

       [laughing] I am just-

   16. NKNikhil Kamath13:14

       20-year-old entrepreneur कैसे बनते हैं, first they have to recognize the looks.

   17. GAGhazal Alagh13:17

       Why, why I say that's a completely-

   18. NKNikhil Kamath13:19

       Hmm

   19. GAGhazal Alagh13:20

       ... different story? Because, again, for the longest period of time, I thought I was the most horrible-looking girl that could exist, especially-

   20. NKNikhil Kamath13:30

       Wow

   21. GAGhazal Alagh13:30

       ... till grade 12.

   22. NKNikhil Kamath13:32

       Okay.

   23. GAGhazal Alagh13:33

       Um, reason being-

   24. NKNikhil Kamath13:35

       You had bad self-image till grade 12?

   25. GAGhazal Alagh13:37

       Uh, uh, just on the beauty side of things.

   26. NKNikhil Kamath13:39

       On the, on the phys-

   27. GAGhazal Alagh13:40

       On, on how, on how I look.

   28. NKNikhil Kamath13:41

       On the physicality of it.

   29. GAGhazal Alagh13:42

       On, on the physicality of it.

   30. NKNikhil Kamath13:43

       Mm-hmm.
6. 18:50 – 20:40

   Why is Loyalty important to Ghazal

   1. NKNikhil Kamath18:50

      really gives importance to loyalty when you watched what happened between your father and his brothers when you were 12, 13? And has that continued? At Mamaearth today, is loyalty a big thing?

   2. GAGhazal Alagh19:03

      So to- till today, loyalty is the most important thing-

   3. NKNikhil Kamath19:06

      Mm

   4. GAGhazal Alagh19:07

      ... for me in any relationship, be it with my employees, be it with my family, be it with my any kind of relationships or friends.

   5. NKNikhil Kamath19:14

      Mm.

   6. GAGhazal Alagh19:16

      I... If it gets broken once, it's very difficult for me to be that same person-

   7. NKNikhil Kamath19:23

      Mm

   8. GAGhazal Alagh19:24

      ... with that, uh, person-

   9. NKNikhil Kamath19:26

      Unforgiving?

   10. GAGhazal Alagh19:28

       Not unforgiving-

   11. NKNikhil Kamath19:29

       Mm

   12. GAGhazal Alagh19:29

       ... but I don't forget it. There's a difference.

   13. NKNikhil Kamath19:33

       Forgive but don't forget.

   14. GAGhazal Alagh19:33

       I will forgive the person, but I will not forget what happened.

   15. NKNikhil Kamath19:37

       Mm.

   16. GAGhazal Alagh19:37

       And that feeling stays with me, because of which I'm not able to be that same person again.

   17. NKNikhil Kamath19:42

       Do you think that's a good thing or a bad thing?

   18. GAGhazal Alagh19:44

       I think it's a very bad thing. It does more harm to me than anybody else, and I wanna let it go.

   19. NKNikhil Kamath19:51

       Mm.

   20. GAGhazal Alagh19:51

       I've tried really hard that this should move away, I should be that person who doesn't care, et cetera. It's been almo- like, so many years now, but I haven't been able to change it a bit.

   21. SPSpeaker20:03

       That's why I... Actually, I, I forget, but I don't forgive. So, and, and I forget like this. I don't remember anything.

   22. NKNikhil Kamath20:09

       This is better.

   23. GAGhazal Alagh20:10

       That's a blessing.

   24. SPSpeaker20:11

       I just don't remember that person-

   25. NKNikhil Kamath20:12

       Forgetting is the same as forgiving, if you can't remember

   26. SPSpeaker20:15

       ... that thing, that loss, that nothing.

   27. GAGhazal Alagh20:15

       Yeah, that's, it's a blessing if you can do that. Trust me.

   28. SPSpeaker20:19

       And it's only because that work pulls me so hard that I, I kind of forget everything which is around me.

   29. NKNikhil Kamath20:27

       Okay, just to finish on Ghazal. Okay, you went to college, then?

   30. GAGhazal Alagh20:30

       Yeah, so college, I was, like, a very aggressive... Because of what had happened-
7. 20:40 – 27:50

   The Drive for Financial Independence

   1. GAGhazal Alagh20:40

      "You know how you have these parties," like I talked about, the farewell parties, or you wanna go out with your friends for a, for a movie or for a lunch, et cetera. Everybody pools in money, right? And when I had- when you have to pool in money at that age, you're asking your parents to give you some money or a pocket money, right? Um, and one day, um, like, I saw some crazy discussion, but I saw my mom telling me, "I don't have the money to give you, so I can't go." And this happened two, three times. Uh, I don't know what the reason was behind that, but either she actually did not have money, or she wanted me to learn something out of it, or value money more, whatever that was. Um, there's this one line that she said, when I said that, "You know what? You're not giving me money. Like, how do I do? Everybody gets it. I will make my own money." So she said, "Till the time you're taking money from anybody else, whoever you are taking it from, will make decisions for you. The day you start earning your own money is the day you get to choose where to spend it on." And that is what I took with me all through th- these years, and when I entered college, I... So college is very liberating, right? Unlike school, where you have a fixed routine-

   2. NKNikhil Kamath21:53

      Yeah

   3. GAGhazal Alagh21:53

      ... college, you also have some time, and you know you're going-

   4. NKNikhil Kamath21:55

      I have no idea. I never went to college, so sorry. [laughing]

   5. GAGhazal Alagh21:58

      It's, it's, it's liber- it's liberating in the sense that you have more time to yourself than you had while you were in school. You also have a little more freedom because you have your own vehicle, you have to go to college, you have to take classes, then you're taking coaching, et cetera. Um, I actually used that opportunity, and I tried to find a job for myself because I said, "College, I have to have my own money if I want to spend it my way. How do I make money?" I started taking tuitions, um, 直 到 figure out。

   6. NKNikhil Kamath22:29

      What were you teaching?

   7. GAGhazal Alagh22:30

      Maths and science [chuckles]

   8. NKNikhil Kamath22:31

      Mm.

   9. GAGhazal Alagh22:31

      Two students who were, like-

   10. NKNikhil Kamath22:33

       Mm

   11. GAGhazal Alagh22:33

       ... pre-10th, t- till 10th, I would say.

   12. NKNikhil Kamath22:36

       Mm. Little Ghazals.

   13. GAGhazal Alagh22:37

       Li- yeah, li- little Ghazals. Like, uh... But I was teaching everything because my objective was not- I was not focused on what I'm teaching.

   14. NKNikhil Kamath22:45

       Yeah, no, then-

   15. GAGhazal Alagh22:46

       I was focused on what's the money that's coming in and how much am I able to make, right?

   16. NKNikhil Kamath22:49

       So tuitions, college on the side.

   17. GAGhazal Alagh22:52

       College, tuition on the side. [chuckles]

   18. NKNikhil Kamath22:54

       Mm.

   19. GAGhazal Alagh22:54

       And that's the time when I also picked up my passion for computers, because I had experienced it as an elective subject in grade 10.

   20. NKNikhil Kamath23:01

       Mm.

   21. GAGhazal Alagh23:02

       Grade 11, 12th, it got taken away from me, and I was missing it like crazy. So I realized that that's my passion. So when I went to my parents saying, "You know, engineering is not something that I want to do," and I didn't sit for the entrance exams with a fear that, "What if I get through? Then I'll be pushed towards pursuing this as a career."

   22. NKNikhil Kamath23:22

       Mm.

   23. GAGhazal Alagh23:22

       So didn't do that, uh, and instead said, "Regular college."

   24. NKNikhil Kamath23:26

       Mm.

   25. GAGhazal Alagh23:26

       " 嗨 Fi college, regular college that has minimal fee." MCM DAV, it's a all-girls college. "And on the side, while I'll take tuitions, I'll also figure out what is it that I want to do."

   26. NKNikhil Kamath23:37

       Mm.

   27. GAGhazal Alagh23:37

       And I picked up computers.

   28. NKNikhil Kamath23:38

       Mm.

   29. GAGhazal Alagh23:39

       I joined NIIT. There was this course-

   30. NKNikhil Kamath23:41

       Yeah, mm, mm
8. 27:50 – 30:10

   What does art mean to Ghazal?

   1. NKNikhil Kamath27:50

      Mm

   2. GAGhazal Alagh27:50

      ... back then, doing really well.

   3. NKNikhil Kamath27:51

      Can I ask you a question?

   4. GAGhazal Alagh27:52

      Yeah.

   5. NKNikhil Kamath27:53

      Who are your favorite artists?

   6. GAGhazal Alagh27:55

      My favorite-

   7. NKNikhil Kamath27:56

      They say the kind of art you like tells you a lot about a person.

   8. GAGhazal Alagh27:59

      Is it? So my favorite artist is Seema Kohli.

   9. NKNikhil Kamath28:02

      Mm.

   10. GAGhazal Alagh28:02

       Followed by Paresh Maity. Both of these are Indian artists.

   11. NKNikhil Kamath28:05

       I know.

   12. GAGhazal Alagh28:05

       I've met them.

   13. NKNikhil Kamath28:06

       Mm.

   14. GAGhazal Alagh28:06

       I've, I've seen their work. I've taken a lot of inspiration from them.

   15. NKNikhil Kamath28:08

       Tell me some international dead ones.

   16. GAGhazal Alagh28:11

       I love Van Gogh, and I love Picasso.

   17. NKNikhil Kamath28:14

       Which painting? If you say Picasso, do you like his red phase, his blue phase? Do you like Cubism?

   18. GAGhazal Alagh28:19

       I like Cubism the most.

   19. NKNikhil Kamath28:21

       Why?

   20. GAGhazal Alagh28:21

       You will also see it, a bit of it in my work.

   21. NKNikhil Kamath28:23

       Why?

   22. GAGhazal Alagh28:25

       Um, there is so much depth-

   23. NKNikhil Kamath28:27

       Hmm

   24. GAGhazal Alagh28:27

       ... to that painting.

   25. NKNikhil Kamath28:28

       I think, I think Cubism was not him originally. Cezanne started it, he got inspired, right? I think it was the first time when some artist did not depict something as it is-

   26. RARitesh Agarwal28:39

       Took-

   27. NKNikhil Kamath28:39

       ... but took a derivative of it, and that appealed to him.

   28. GAGhazal Alagh28:42

       But my favorite works of Picasso have been on the lines of Cubism.

   29. NKNikhil Kamath28:46

       Mm. Wow.

   30. GAGhazal Alagh28:47

       I just feel that when you put those lines to form certain shapes, um, and I don't know how true that is, but there is so much interpretation, or there is so much depth to it that you can pull out. Um, every time I look at these paintings, I feel a different emotion.
9. 30:10 – 39:25

   What was Ghazal doing before Mama Earth?

   1. NKNikhil Kamath30:10

      already.

   2. GAGhazal Alagh30:10

      Yes.

   3. NKNikhil Kamath30:10

      So I don't, I won't go into that too much.

   4. GAGhazal Alagh30:13

      Yeah, yeah.

   5. NKNikhil Kamath30:13

      But, uh, NIIT then, what did you say?

   6. GAGhazal Alagh30:16

      Yeah, so studied at NIIT. While studying at NIIT, took up my first job with NIIT-

   7. NKNikhil Kamath30:22

      Mm

   8. GAGhazal Alagh30:22

      ... which was a corporate trainer.

   9. NKNikhil Kamath30:23

      Mm.

   10. GAGhazal Alagh30:24

       Uh, no experience-

   11. NKNikhil Kamath30:25

       Mm

   12. GAGhazal Alagh30:25

       ... just because height, achhi thi, Mama ka suit pahan liya tha. Went, gave an interview, got cleared. Next day, they asked us to give whatever documents we had because they had to finalize it, is when they realized that I don't- my age is not elible, eligible, I don't have any prior experience, and I'm a student of NIIT, so I can't take the role up.

   13. NKNikhil Kamath30:44

       Mm.

   14. GAGhazal Alagh30:45

       ... convinced them in some way that, "Give me one. If it doesn't work out, I won't charge for it." Like, I was doing it for money, [laughing] right? There was no other reason. Um, uh, but they were kind enough to give me that one opportunity.

   15. NKNikhil Kamath30:59

       Mm.

   16. GAGhazal Alagh31:00

       Learnt on the job. Had no idea how to train people. Like, this was a training that I was taking for, um, people who were in their 40s to 50 y- 50 years of age bracket, who had been working with their company for almost, you know, 10 to 15 years, and I was the one who was taking a software that NIIIT had built to them, saying, "I will teach you how you can do your work better."

   17. NKNikhil Kamath31:21

       Mm.

   18. GAGhazal Alagh31:23

       That was also the first time I experienced that confidence can be faked. [laughing]

   19. NKNikhil Kamath31:29

       Mm.

   20. GAGhazal Alagh31:29

       Because I was... I, I had... My legs were shivering when I entered that room. I was a student, and I was supposed to become their teacher-

   21. NKNikhil Kamath31:38

       Mm

   22. GAGhazal Alagh31:38

       ... and tell them, "How can you use this software?" that I had also learnt just seven, 10 days back.

   23. NKNikhil Kamath31:44

       Mm.

   24. GAGhazal Alagh31:45

       And sort of, you know, it's learning on the job, but I managed-

   25. NKNikhil Kamath31:48

       This is the number one competency in entrepreneurship, that you have to be confident no matter what, but really, you have no idea what's going to happen next. [laughing]

   26. GAGhazal Alagh31:55

       [laughing] I know, but again, I think on the flip side, uh, I always think, "What can go wrong? Worst case, I'll be thrown out of it. I, any which ways, don't have it." So, like, "..." I will eventually, like, once I complete the course-

   27. NKNikhil Kamath32:08

       I resonate with that, yeah.

   28. GAGhazal Alagh32:09

       Yeah, so that's okay. The downside was so low.

   29. NKNikhil Kamath32:11

       Mm.

   30. GAGhazal Alagh32:11

       Like, the risk of, uh, failing-
10. 39:25 – 46:50

    How did Ghazal Identify an Opportunity in Skin Care?

    1. GAGhazal Alagh39:25

       Agastya started having some skin reactions, because of which I realized that the products that we were using on, on him were not good enough.

    2. NKNikhil Kamath39:32

       Mm.

    3. GAGhazal Alagh39:32

       We started ordering from outside of India, and those products were suiting him really well.

    4. NKNikhil Kamath39:36

       Mm.

    5. GAGhazal Alagh39:36

       So that is how, um, you know, as a cribbing wife, I went to Varun. "Why isn't... Why- In India, mein kuch kar kyu nahi raha? Why don't we have regulations?"

    6. NKNikhil Kamath39:46

       What products were you-

    7. GAGhazal Alagh39:46

       Like, we did not have any regulations

    8. NKNikhil Kamath39:48

       ... were you ordering from outside?

    9. GAGhazal Alagh39:50

       So there's this brand called Babyganics.

    10. NKNikhil Kamath39:52

        Okay.

    11. GAGhazal Alagh39:52

        And there is this brand called Honest-

    12. NKNikhil Kamath39:55

        Yeah, that Jessica Alba.

    13. GAGhazal Alagh39:56

        So I was... Yes.

    14. RARitesh Agarwal39:57

        The Honest company.

    15. GAGhazal Alagh39:58

        I was ordering products from these two brands and hoarding it like crazy. In- a cupboard full of cupboard products.

    16. NKNikhil Kamath40:02

        They were all, like, organic-

    17. GAGhazal Alagh40:03

        Natural organic-

    18. NKNikhil Kamath40:05

        ... fulfilling

    19. GAGhazal Alagh40:05

        ... very low, you know, nat- food-grade preservatives-

    20. RARitesh Agarwal40:08

        Quality free

    21. GAGhazal Alagh40:08

        ... et cetera.

    22. NKNikhil Kamath40:09

        Mm.

    23. GAGhazal Alagh40:09

        And we did not have anything like that in India.

    24. NKNikhil Kamath40:11

        Mm.

    25. GAGhazal Alagh40:11

        India was... Even the products that were calling themselves out as Ayurveda-

    26. RARitesh Agarwal40:15

        Even the Johnsons of the world, whatever was existing?

    27. GAGhazal Alagh40:17

        That was my... I, I shouldn't-

    28. RARitesh Agarwal40:19

        Why wouldn't it be?

    29. GAGhazal Alagh40:20

        That was my trigger. That was my trigger, because whenever anybody has a new baby, maximum number of gift sets come from the brand that you said, right?

    30. NKNikhil Kamath40:30

        Johnson & Johnson.
11. 46:50 – 55:40

    Mama Earth’s early days of Product Development and Marketing

    1. GAGhazal Alagh46:50

       with the coconut-based surfactants. And then after that, I had to reach out to people who could help me build formulations. And when you're starting out-

    2. NKNikhil Kamath47:00

       How do you find these people?

    3. GAGhazal Alagh47:02

       Yeah. So, like, again, cold calling, cold mailing.

    4. NKNikhil Kamath47:06

       Mm. So you can find, if I go on Google and say, I, I'm a 21-year-old girl-

    5. GAGhazal Alagh47:10

       Yeah.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath47:11

       I think my shampoo is horrible.

    7. GAGhazal Alagh47:13

       Yeah.

    8. NKNikhil Kamath47:13

       I find a shampoo, a really expensive, honest company shampoo, which I really like.

    9. GAGhazal Alagh47:19

       Yeah.

    10. NKNikhil Kamath47:20

        I look at the difference in ingredients of that and what is available here.

    11. GAGhazal Alagh47:24

        Yes.

    12. NKNikhil Kamath47:25

        And then I need to find people who will make this for me.

    13. GAGhazal Alagh47:28

        Yeah.

    14. NKNikhil Kamath47:29

        Who do I call? What do I Google?

    15. GAGhazal Alagh47:31

        So here is where LinkedIn helped.

    16. NKNikhil Kamath47:34

        Mm.

    17. GAGhazal Alagh47:34

        Because on LinkedIn, you can specifically put search people out who are into research and development for personal care products.

    18. NKNikhil Kamath47:42

        Mm. Interesting.

    19. GAGhazal Alagh47:43

        Right?

    20. NKNikhil Kamath47:43

        Mm.

    21. GAGhazal Alagh47:43

        So that's where LinkedIn came handy.

    22. NKNikhil Kamath47:46

        Mm.

    23. GAGhazal Alagh47:46

        And we, uh, of course, we, like, pulled out at least, at least thirty, thirty-five, forty people that we wanted to reach out to. We sent... We figured their email IDs from LinkedIn itself. I sent cold mails to these people.

    24. NKNikhil Kamath48:01

        Mm.

    25. GAGhazal Alagh48:01

        Probably out of those thirty-five, three reverted.

    26. NKNikhil Kamath48:04

        Mm.

    27. GAGhazal Alagh48:04

        And one out of them-

    28. SPSpeaker48:05

        And what just, in what timeline? Months, or...

    29. GAGhazal Alagh48:08

        No, no, no. The, the- I think that ways, our system is good. Even today, if you write a cold email to somebody, I think you most, mostly get a-

    30. SPSpeaker48:17

        Okay
12. 55:40 – 1:09:12

    Mama Earth’s Sales Techniques & Customer Engagement

    1. NKNikhil Kamath55:40

       All of this costed next to nothing-

    2. GAGhazal Alagh55:41

       So in between also-

    3. NKNikhil Kamath55:42

       Mm

    4. GAGhazal Alagh55:42

       ... how, how do you know the product worked or not worked-

    5. NKNikhil Kamath55:45

       Mm

    6. GAGhazal Alagh55:45

       ... was also something that was really important and, like, completely changed the way we pitched the brand to our consumers, or we talked about it. Um, so we made those set of five products.

    7. NKNikhil Kamath55:56

       Mm.

    8. GAGhazal Alagh55:57

       Um, because we were living in Delhi, having a South Delhi key, a really premium toy shop, Dhundi, and we stood outside that toy shop because that guy did not let us in. We wanted to do some consumer work to understand if people-

    9. NKNikhil Kamath56:08

       Wait, you went to a toy shop?

    10. GAGhazal Alagh56:09

        Yeah.

    11. NKNikhil Kamath56:10

        He didn't let you in, so you did a sat- stood outside and did the survey? And anybody can do that.

    12. GAGhazal Alagh56:15

        Anybody can do that.

    13. NKNikhil Kamath56:16

        Mm.

    14. GAGhazal Alagh56:16

        It w- it, it's basically a walkway outside the shops, right? Anybody can stand there. So we stood there. We knew our relevant consumer set is going to come, and parents are the only ones who will come to a toy shop, or probably one who's trying to take a gift for kids, but they will be exposed to that segment of kids, right?

    15. NKNikhil Kamath56:33

        Mm.

    16. GAGhazal Alagh56:33

        Um, kids say the feedback me, they said, "So tell me, parents," so we pitch kind of. So we stood there-

    17. NKNikhil Kamath56:37

        Mm

    18. GAGhazal Alagh56:38

        ... um, and boldly approached people who were walking in-

    19. NKNikhil Kamath56:43

        Mm

    20. GAGhazal Alagh56:43

        ... made them try our products-

    21. NKNikhil Kamath56:45

        Mm

    22. GAGhazal Alagh56:45

        ... for feedback, gave them candies in return. [chuckles]

    23. NKNikhil Kamath56:48

        Mm.

    24. GAGhazal Alagh56:48

        That was the only thing that we could afford back then.

    25. NKNikhil Kamath56:50

        Mm.

    26. GAGhazal Alagh56:51

        Um, and started filling our survey form for us to be able to take feedback, because-

    27. NKNikhil Kamath56:56

        Mm

    28. GAGhazal Alagh56:56

        ... when you're making natural products, back then, we did not know that the performance can be at par with some of these other products. Now we know far better, but we also thought that performance might not be as good, or the texture might not be as good. It's a handmade batch, et cetera.

    29. NKNikhil Kamath57:10

        Mm.

    30. GAGhazal Alagh57:10

        We wanted to take a lot of feedback on the way the product looked. We had created labels.
13. 1:09:12 – 1:13:50

    Nikhil’s Summary of Ghazal’s Journey

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:09:12

       the nuance, I don't know, like, now will we resonate with it. When you were 12, 13 years old, the split in your family built some kind of insecurity in you that many of the other things, loyalty, financial freedom, early, slightly aggressive, slightly unforgiving, uh, forget but don't really forget-

    2. GAGhazal Alagh1:09:40

       No, forgiving, but don't- doesn't forget.

    3. NKNikhil Kamath1:09:43

       Yeah.

    4. GAGhazal Alagh1:09:43

       Forgive.

    5. NKNikhil Kamath1:09:44

       Yeah.

    6. GAGhazal Alagh1:09:44

       I've forgiven a lot of people in my life.

    7. NKNikhil Kamath1:09:46

       Could you say that if you forgive and you don't forget, it's slightly unforgiving, too?

    8. GAGhazal Alagh1:09:51

       No.

    9. NKNikhil Kamath1:09:52

       True forgiveness is-

    10. GAGhazal Alagh1:09:53

        So when you forgive-

    11. NKNikhil Kamath1:09:54

        Uh

    12. GAGhazal Alagh1:09:54

        ... you're putting yourself at ease.

    13. NKNikhil Kamath1:09:56

        Uh.

    14. GAGhazal Alagh1:09:57

        You're taking that burden or that pressure off you. Otherwise, it keeps moving in your mind-

    15. NKNikhil Kamath1:10:02

        Mm

    16. GAGhazal Alagh1:10:03

        ... that you're still upset by certain things.

    17. NKNikhil Kamath1:10:05

        Mm.

    18. GAGhazal Alagh1:10:05

        So you've forgiven.

    19. NKNikhil Kamath1:10:06

        Mm.

    20. GAGhazal Alagh1:10:07

        It's no longer bothering you-

    21. NKNikhil Kamath1:10:08

        Mm

    22. GAGhazal Alagh1:10:09

        ... and it's no longer bothering the other person.

    23. NKNikhil Kamath1:10:11

        Mm.

    24. GAGhazal Alagh1:10:11

        But would I trust that person again with the amount of trust that I had before? Would I trust that person again? Probably yes-

    25. NKNikhil Kamath1:10:19

        Diminished trust

    26. GAGhazal Alagh1:10:19

        ... but with my share, with my fair share of doubts.

    27. NKNikhil Kamath1:10:23

        Yeah. Uh, Mom stepping up, big event.

    28. GAGhazal Alagh1:10:26

        Yes.

    29. NKNikhil Kamath1:10:27

        It, it's very evident how that has... Uh, also when you said Mom or dad favorite, or who you would like to be like, you said Mom. I think it has defined your personality to a certain extent. Uh, when you got confident about how you look beyond the 12th grade-

    30. GAGhazal Alagh1:10:44

        Yeah
14. 1:13:50 – 1:15:14

    Introduction to Rare Rabbit

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:13:50

       seen Rare Rabbit, uh, there's a store in the mall right next to my house, uh, in UB City, and I've seen it, like, here and there many times in the past. So we were investing, or we're in the process of investing in Rare Rabbit, and when we started researching the company a bit more, it just didn't make sense. It was stupidly incredible. Like, a Indian homegrown Western cloth manufacturer, a company built in the era that we live in, making a profit after tax with no investors-

    2. MPManish Poddar1:14:27

       It's his house, so I am hearing him-

    3. NKNikhil Kamath1:14:29

       Fully bootstrap.

    4. MPManish Poddar1:14:30

       He's upli- uplifting it too much.

    5. NKNikhil Kamath1:14:32

       With no investors, no dilution, nobody, and our man has built it. When I, when we-

    6. NKNikhil Kamath1:14:39

       And first generation, you built it. Incredible.

    7. NKNikhil Kamath1:14:42

       How many years ago?

    8. MPManish Poddar1:14:43

       Seven years.

    9. NKNikhil Kamath1:14:44

       Seven years ago.

    10. NKNikhil Kamath1:14:45

        Just seven years ago!

    11. NKNikhil Kamath1:14:47

        So we started together.

    12. NKNikhil Kamath1:14:47

        Congratulations.

    13. MPManish Poddar1:14:48

        2017-

    14. NKNikhil Kamath1:14:49

        We are also seven years

    15. MPManish Poddar1:14:50

        ... 16, 17.

    16. NKNikhil Kamath1:14:51

        And nowhere to be found in the media.

    17. MPManish Poddar1:14:53

        Yeah.

    18. NKNikhil Kamath1:14:53

        No interviews, no like, if you, you-- like, our team was trying to do, like, a bio of him.

    19. MPManish Poddar1:14:58

        Yeah, someone asked me-

    20. NKNikhil Kamath1:14:59

        So they reached out to him-

    21. MPManish Poddar1:14:59

        ... "Do you have a bio?" I said-

    22. NKNikhil Kamath1:15:00

        He said he doesn't have a bio. [laughing]

    23. MPManish Poddar1:15:03

        [laughing]

    24. NKNikhil Kamath1:15:06

        So then they started looking up online.

    25. SPSpeaker1:15:07

        No, 𝘜𝘴𝘬𝘦 𝘣𝘢𝘥 𝘣𝘪𝘰 𝘣𝘯𝘢, 𝘢𝘱𝘯𝘦 𝘣𝘢𝘯𝘢𝘺𝘢 𝘯𝘩𝘪, 𝘢𝘱𝘯𝘦 𝘥𝘢𝘭𝘢 𝘯𝘩𝘪. You didn't put words to it.

    26. MPManish Poddar1:15:09

        I am from Bombay, originally. Born and brought up in Bombay. Uh, lived in, uh, a small,

15. 1:15:14 – 1:22:35

    Manish Poddar on Growing Up in Bombay

    1. MPManish Poddar1:15:19

       uh, place called Kalbadevi, which is a very hustle-bustle textile market. You can call it the Bada Bazar of Kolkata or the, the bazaars of-

    2. NKNikhil Kamath1:15:29

       Chandni Chowk

    3. MPManish Poddar1:15:30

       ... Chandni Chowk and Chickpet of Bangalore. So grew up there. Uh, had a lot of challenges. Dad was a hardworking man, uh, separated from his brother, and he was trying to make his big life. He-

    4. NKNikhil Kamath1:15:44

       Dad separated from his brother?

    5. MPManish Poddar1:15:44

       Brothers.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath1:15:44

       Similar story.

    7. MPManish Poddar1:15:47

       Yeah, and-

    8. NKNikhil Kamath1:15:48

       Happy separation, sad?

    9. MPManish Poddar1:15:49

       Mm. 𝘚𝘢𝘥 𝘩𝘪 होता है separation.

    10. SPSpeaker1:15:51

        Separation never happy.

    11. MPManish Poddar1:15:52

        Uh, so-

    12. SPSpeaker1:15:52

        Between brothers, how can it be happy?

    13. MPManish Poddar1:15:54

        He moved out. Not that I could-- I have no memory of how he did and all that. I was not as-

    14. NKNikhil Kamath1:15:57

        It's serendipity. You didn't pick it up like this?

    15. SPSpeaker1:16:00

        Mm-hmm.

    16. MPManish Poddar1:16:00

        No.

    17. NKNikhil Kamath1:16:00

        Okay.

    18. MPManish Poddar1:16:01

        Ｎo, but I think, uh, India-

    19. NKNikhil Kamath1:16:03

        It's more common

    20. MPManish Poddar1:16:03

        ... ninety-five percent, ninety-eight percent normal है ये。 This is like, होना ही है。 So we used to live there, uh, not had too much of access of great things, from a color TV or whatever. Would go to neighbor's house to see movies. Uh, they would be on sofa, I would be on floor, but that was life. And, uh, there are a couple of things that struck me that, uh, when I moved from that place to Cuffe Parade, which is the, let's say, the skyscraper part of Bombay, because-

    21. NKNikhil Kamath1:16:34

        How old were you when your parents, your dad and brother separated?

    22. MPManish Poddar1:16:38

        I would be what? Three, four, five years old.

    23. NKNikhil Kamath1:16:42

        Mm.

    24. MPManish Poddar1:16:43

        Three, four. I mean, not even the conscious of mind.

    25. SPSpeaker1:16:44

        Too young to understand.

    26. MPManish Poddar1:16:47

        No, we were in Bombay always. Uh-

    27. NKNikhil Kamath1:16:49

        Actually, that age, they say, between three to seven, eight, all psychology states that even though your memories might not be vivid, those are the most impactful-

    28. SPSpeaker1:17:01

        Impactful, yeah.

    29. NKNikhil Kamath1:17:01

        Those are very formative.

    30. MPManish Poddar1:17:02

        My memories go very back.
16. 1:22:35 – 1:28:15

    The Textile Industry in Bombay during the 1970s

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:22:35

       What era are you talking about?

    2. MPManish Poddar1:22:36

       We're talking about eighties, seventies and eighties.

    3. NKNikhil Kamath1:22:38

       Mm.

    4. MPManish Poddar1:22:39

       Uh, till nineties also, there were mills, uh, NTC mills was a very-

    5. NKNikhil Kamath1:22:41

       So he was a supplier to NTCs, eh?

    6. MPManish Poddar1:22:43

       No, he was a buyer of the mills-

    7. NKNikhil Kamath1:22:45

       Got it

    8. MPManish Poddar1:22:45

       ... uh, the fabrics, and they used to make ten, twenty qualities. Each quality used to be hand-hold by certain cartel of businessmen. So my dad would have certain sorts, and my dad was very-- he was a very quick rotator in business. And unlike his brother, who was fifteen years older to him, who would want to make, uh, more money, but he would say, "You're making twenty-five paise, you know? Ek rupe ka maal pach- ek pachis mein bik raha hai, bech de." So on that tussle, he says, "No, you don't know business," and he knows business better and things like that. They split. But he still went there to take that twenty thousand meters to the mill, and, and at that time, um, he entered that office, uh... So he was not an English-speaking guy. He would actually go, and he didn't know what's, "Excuse me," uh, kaise ghusna hai. He was just a straight man. So he would enter the chairman's office, where he would have two guards, and no one can get out of-- So if Mr. Sen, when he would leave the textile mill-

    9. NKNikhil Kamath1:23:46

       Who is Mr. Sen?

    10. MPManish Poddar1:23:46

        Mr. Sushil Sen is also one of the reason, uh, one of the, the key man who made even Kishore Biyani's life, and he also was instrumental in making my dad's life, uh, from very, very early days.

    11. NKNikhil Kamath1:23:58

        What did he do?

    12. MPManish Poddar1:23:59

        Uh, uh, Mr.-- He was a director and chairman of all the mills in Bombay-

    13. NKNikhil Kamath1:24:03

        In the '80s

    14. MPManish Poddar1:24:03

        ... by the government in the '80s. So when he would leave his house, forty-two mills' air conditions used to go on, that saab kidhar bhi aa sakte hai.

    15. NKNikhil Kamath1:24:11

        When Mr. Sen left the house.

    16. MPManish Poddar1:24:14

        Mr. Sen.

    17. NKNikhil Kamath1:24:14

        And textile was the predominant large business of the '80s?

    18. MPManish Poddar1:24:17

        Yeah, yeah. India, yarn, textile, uh, and that's it.

    19. NKNikhil Kamath1:24:21

        Reliance also started like that.

    20. MPManish Poddar1:24:22

        Yeah, Reliance-

    21. NKNikhil Kamath1:24:23

        Bombay Dyeing.

    22. MPManish Poddar1:24:24

        Bombay Dyeing.

    23. NKNikhil Kamath1:24:25

        All.

    24. MPManish Poddar1:24:26

        You name it, and everyone. Piramals-

    25. NKNikhil Kamath1:24:27

        Bombay wealth creation effectively started-

    26. MPManish Poddar1:24:30

        Piramals are also from textile.

    27. NKNikhil Kamath1:24:32

        Textile.

    28. MPManish Poddar1:24:32

        So, um, Mr. Sushil Sen was, like, entering his chamber, and he wanted to gatecrash in, and he-

    29. NKNikhil Kamath1:24:38

        Who wanted to gatecrash?

    30. MPManish Poddar1:24:39

        My father, because he said, "Ye sauda mere ko chahiye," and he was fighting outside with the managers that, "Mujhe ek rupe mein de do. I, I want this deal on my name." And which was not happening because they said, "This is your brother's, and why have you come?" He heard all this nonsense, he said, "Come inside." I said, "My brother doesn't want a deal. I want to take this." And, uh, he says, "And how will you pay?" He says, "That I don't know." "And when will you pay?" He says, "After I sell, and I recover." And I say, "Aur company kitna purana hai tumhara?" Bola, "Woh abhi banaya nahi hai." [chuckles] So I said... And he was like: "Are you serious?" This is almost like I was seen as Thrushul, differently, but... And, uh, he just saw it in him, and that's how you get that. In those days, trust and eye contact, and those things had a very different value than these thirty pages contracts today. Uh, so he was just like, "Theek hai. Lekin contract mein likh lenge, kuch toh naam bolo."...Bolo Radhakishan Murarilal, write down, that's my father and my name. So, and I'll just formalize the company and come back. And he did that, and he never stopped. He was, uh, he was called the Textile Mafia. When I joined, I was seventeen years old-
17. 1:28:15 – 1:36:00

    Experience working with the Family Business

    1. MPManish Poddar1:28:15

       of eighteen, eighteen, nineteen years old. And, uh-

    2. NKNikhil Kamath1:28:19

       Where did you go to school in or in Bombay? Which school?

    3. MPManish Poddar1:28:21

       I went to GD Somani and, uh, followed by Jai Hind College, which, uh, I didn't pursue.

    4. NKNikhil Kamath1:28:27

       To study what?

    5. MPManish Poddar1:28:28

       Uh, commerce. Marwadis have no other option.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath1:28:32

       Mm.

    7. MPManish Poddar1:28:33

       And arts sunte hi lagta tha ki... I did home science, though, in school-

    8. NKNikhil Kamath1:28:36

       Mm.

    9. MPManish Poddar1:28:36

       -cross-stitching, cooking. I was the only guy in the, in the girls' segment. [laughing] Uh, so to, uh, when the other split happened, uh, I, uh, I had to take over the business of dad's, and, uh, I had already started working at the age of sixteen, seventeen with dad in the mills. Uh, all the mills, I would design textile, create my own color boards, and I was the first one to actually create mood boards-

    10. NKNikhil Kamath1:29:05

        Mm.

    11. MPManish Poddar1:29:05

        -which today in your business would be themes or the whole-

    12. NKNikhil Kamath1:29:08

        Yeah

    13. MPManish Poddar1:29:08

        ... campaign board around and things like that. I used to make those in those, uh... People would carry bags of swatches and hangers, and I would carry boards, unreal for even factories. And, uh, sell for Bangladesh, uh, not to even-

    14. NKNikhil Kamath1:29:22

        How old were you at this time?

    15. MPManish Poddar1:29:24

        Seventeen, eighteen.

    16. NKNikhil Kamath1:29:25

        Mm.

    17. MPManish Poddar1:29:26

        And not to-

    18. NKNikhil Kamath1:29:26

        So when was the first paycheck you got on your own? Like a Marwadi family, did you get paid by your family for a bit-

    19. MPManish Poddar1:29:32

        No, no, no.

    20. NKNikhil Kamath1:29:32

        -and then?

    21. MPManish Poddar1:29:33

        I-- So there's a very, uh, different, and I hope the generation, especially, I don't know, wherever it's relevant. Nowadays, kids think, you know, ki dad has put me to education, and, uh, one day I will pay back my dad for whatever he spent on my education, and I tell my kids, I said, "Don't make it too cheap and shallow here." You start from the birth, from the cereal that you ate. Add even compounding, but vyaj of Marwadis, all the holidays, and if you can also com-- firstly, calculate all that. So don't take this short four-year payout. [laughing]

    22. NKNikhil Kamath1:30:08

        [laughing]

    23. MPManish Poddar1:30:09

        And-

    24. NKNikhil Kamath1:30:09

        That was a good thing! [laughing]

    25. MPManish Poddar1:30:11

        I said, and-

    26. NKNikhil Kamath1:30:11

        I initially thought that you sa- you meant to say that, "Don't be so shallow." [laughing] "It's, you don't need to do it."

    27. MPManish Poddar1:30:17

        Yeah.

    28. NKNikhil Kamath1:30:17

        And then you reversed it and said, "Baba, that starts all the way." [laughing]

    29. MPManish Poddar1:30:20

        No, I said, "No, you do all this because-

    30. NKNikhil Kamath1:30:23

        That's cute
18. 1:36:00 – 1:38:50

    Entering the export business

    1. MPManish Poddar1:36:00

       I would take about thirty, twenty-five, thirty-five percent of the production to Bangladesh and sell it at a, at a margin. Uh-

    2. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:08

       Is that how Bangladesh's textile industry started?

    3. MPManish Poddar1:36:10

       So Bangladesh is a very... It's a jute country, and, uh-

    4. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:14

       So why would, why would, why did they have need or demand for the textile you were taking from India to them?

    5. MPManish Poddar1:36:19

       So in 1986, there is, which is called the father of the nation, Mr. Nurul Quader, he actually took sixteen men at his expense. It's a very poor country.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:31

       Mm.

    7. MPManish Poddar1:36:31

       Was, and back then, though, it was terrible.

    8. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:33

       Now it's booming.

    9. MPManish Poddar1:36:35

       That, those numbers are-

    10. RARitesh Agarwal1:36:36

        The per capita income of Bangladesh is probably the highest in South Asia now.

    11. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:40

        At least in textiles, they've killed it, right?

    12. MPManish Poddar1:36:42

        Yeah, yeah, but, uh, the-

    13. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:43

        Biggest employer in Bangladesh?

    14. MPManish Poddar1:36:44

        The largest.

    15. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:45

        Textile industry.

    16. MPManish Poddar1:36:45

        Largest in the world. And, uh, as a country, and I think fifty-six or sixty percent almost, the GDP, the economy is on garments, to export manufactured garments. They employ the largest human force in, uh, in, uh, manufacturing, in one industry alone. So this gentleman, Nurul Quader, back in those days, took sixteen men and, uh, took them to Korea on his expense to understand how to do line manufacturing system, not do one piece you make yourself.

    17. NKNikhil Kamath1:37:16

        He was the prime minister of-

    18. MPManish Poddar1:37:18

        No, uh, he was just a businessman-

    19. NKNikhil Kamath1:37:21

        Mm

    20. MPManish Poddar1:37:21

        ... uh, but a very renowned person. Those sixteen people from Korea, when they trained and came back, it's like how the Toyota car manufacturing is.

    21. NKNikhil Kamath1:37:29

        Mm.

    22. MPManish Poddar1:37:29

        Parts come from all sides, and you're just assembling it.

    23. NKNikhil Kamath1:37:31

        Uh.

    24. MPManish Poddar1:37:32

        So that's the mechanism of production-

    25. NKNikhil Kamath1:37:34

        Mm

    26. MPManish Poddar1:37:34

        ... which, uh, he adapted to on his expense. He put up a large factory.

    27. NKNikhil Kamath1:37:38

        Uh.

    28. MPManish Poddar1:37:39

        And in 'eighty-nine, uh, the entire factory was underwater of three-fourth.

    29. NKNikhil Kamath1:37:45

        Mm.

    30. MPManish Poddar1:37:46

        ... so everyone had to leave. He just took a promissory note in those days that you all will stick to garments. So those sixteen people became five thousand nine hundred factories, plus, minus today in Dhaka, and I think Dhaka itself is the highest, then it is Chittagong. It's huge. I mean, they do the best of, uh, garment manufacturing globally today. Um, so we-- I did very good business out of Bangladesh, of textile export, uh, continuing whatever dad started in eighty-eight and-
19. 1:38:50 – 1:44:17

    Insights on the European Fashion Industry

    1. MPManish Poddar1:38:50

       sorry, yeah, 2004, '05, uh, I just was in Europe, and I realized this brand called Zara, and I was looking at a store and wow!

    2. NKNikhil Kamath1:39:00

       How old were you then?

    3. MPManish Poddar1:39:01

       Twenty-four, twenty-five. And I said, uh, "Looks good." Looked at some shirts, and I said, "It's possible I can make it." And everything was seeing Made in Spain, Made in Spain. So I thought, "This is Spain guy brand over." Got our Apple hola, I mean, mus-- uh, the, the desktop, Googled Inditex, and made a phone call, and, uh, "I want to speak to the shirt buyer," and he said, "Yes." So there's one thing which, uh, that's why I asked you about, uh, manufacturers, are they welcoming you, or to just say, "Ha!" So we have this policy, which is there f- in my life, in my company, which I got it from Inditex. So Inditex, uh, cannot refuse an appointment. You can call right now. I'll give you the number.

    4. NKNikhil Kamath1:39:49

       Mm.

    5. MPManish Poddar1:39:49

       You can just call them, and I said, "I'm, uh, Nikhil Kamath, and I'm a manufacturer of T-shirts. I make sleepwear."

    6. NKNikhil Kamath1:39:55

       Mm. Even today, they can't refuse?

    7. MPManish Poddar1:39:57

       No, it's, it's monitored. Uh, it's a very simple logic. You're sitting here in a village. It's a village, La Coruña, uh, northwest south of Spain. Nobody goes there. The flights operate for that company-

    8. NKNikhil Kamath1:40:08

       Mm

    9. MPManish Poddar1:40:09

       ... from Madrid and Barcelona. And, uh, because Mr. Ortega doesn't leave, and he's a fine man, lives in a small house still, doesn't move from that house, eighteen hun- sixteen hundred square feet house.

    10. NKNikhil Kamath1:40:26

        So you are telling me if I'm twenty-one, boy, making T-shirts, and I want to sell to Zara, if I called Inditex today, they have to give me an appointment?

    11. MPManish Poddar1:40:36

        They will tell you, "Yes, you can come in." Now, it may take you four more calls.

    12. NKNikhil Kamath1:40:40

        Mm.

    13. MPManish Poddar1:40:40

        Uh, but the operator system there is that they don't ask who you are.

    14. NKNikhil Kamath1:40:44

        Mm.

    15. MPManish Poddar1:40:44

        You just ask for a sleepwear buyer.

    16. NKNikhil Kamath1:40:46

        Mm.

    17. MPManish Poddar1:40:47

        They just push the call, and everybody in their office has their office phone in their pocket.

    18. NKNikhil Kamath1:40:53

        Mm.

    19. MPManish Poddar1:40:54

        It's a desk phone, but it's in their pocket clip, and you can't leave it. You have to have it with you. By chance, you've left it, you're announced on the voice in the entire office, which is almost two million square feet of office. That, and it's a very, very slow decibel sound, huh? "Mr. uh, Mr. Perbera, call for you, extension." All he has to do is go to the next phone anywhere on the wall and pick it up-

    20. NKNikhil Kamath1:41:19

        Wow!

    21. MPManish Poddar1:41:20

        ... while he's talking to me in a meeting room. And they have two hundred meeting rooms. Uh, each table is as big as this, and six hundred square feet, each room.

    22. NKNikhil Kamath1:41:29

        Two hundred meeting rooms?

    23. MPManish Poddar1:41:30

        And you have Korea, China...

    24. NKNikhil Kamath1:41:32

        But tell me, what are the odds? If I, like, I'm making T-shirt. This is my T-shirt. I call Zara and say: Will you buy my T-shirt? What are the odds of them buying it?

    25. MPManish Poddar1:41:44

        So if I look at this particular T-shirt, because you've written the word Bangalore Boy, and if the designer there or the chief designer there or someone just catches an eye on the story behind it, that I'm taking a city, which they'll not take a city.

    26. NKNikhil Kamath1:41:55

        Mm.

    27. MPManish Poddar1:41:55

        Uh, no, sorry, they will take it. They'll not take, uh, scripts of different language because it could mean an abuse there, here, and all that. So if they can build city, Tokyo, New York, Bangalore, if they create a table of T-shirts, if that's the theme, they would have, they would place an order to you, uh, back in those days.

    28. NKNikhil Kamath1:42:13

        Even now?

    29. MPManish Poddar1:42:14

        Now, they will just maximum tell you is that, "We like your product, everything is good. Can we keep it? Or please, can you contact our, uh, Delhi office for compliance, just to check that you are fine?" In those days, I worked for twelve years exclusively for them. I designed collections for them. I was the only men's manufacturer for them, for, uh, Zara Man, and, uh-

    30. NKNikhil Kamath1:42:36

        When you say you were the only men's manufacturer, you're talking about all of Zara?
20. 1:44:17 – 1:48:36

    Dealing with Early Failures and Learnings

    1. MPManish Poddar1:44:17

       and, uh, I stayed back in Salem because I found that I could not, I should not buy from traders in Bombay. And when I went to Salem, I could find it at least fifteen, ten rupees cheaper because he was keeping that margin. So I stayed back there, and I opened an office there, and only I didn't come back to Bombay. And, uh, a lot of mosquitoes, so I would sleep with a wet towel on me because the, the building that I bought, now rent has started, to main socha abhi hotel mein paise kaise kharch karenge? Yahi, yahi so jaate hai. But it was a bad choice today, if you ask me, [chuckles] because I didn't know what sound I was sleeping with mosquitoes of what size, and it was bad. And, uh, so that my first real income was twenty-five lakhs, and to that same customer, within three months, I paid fifty lakhs as claim because that quality which was shipped from there was not of good standard. And I was crying, uh, from the hotel there, and I called up Dad, uh, and, uh, and the only thing he explained me was that, "Tum school gaya hai na?" Bola, "Haan, gaya hoon." My dad never knew which class I am in all his life. Uh, and I said, "Haan, gaya hoon." Said, "School mein fees bharte ho?" Bola, "Haan." "Toh dhandhe ka fees yahi hai, claim bharo. Koi sikhega? Baap thodi na sikhaega. Tum liya order, tum jaake place kiya, aur tumne office bhi khol diya, aur tumko dekhna hi nahi hai, aankh band hai. Aap jaate hai, abhi rehte hai, toh you are seeing that yahaan light theek nahi hai, nahi..." I'm sure frustration hi hoga. Char message bhej ke hi aaye honge aap, ki WhatsApp team ko.

    2. GAGhazal Alagh1:45:42

       Very difficult.

    3. MPManish Poddar1:45:43

       It's impossible.

    4. GAGhazal Alagh1:45:44

       Yeah.

    5. MPManish Poddar1:45:44

       An entrepreneur who's created this product, woh usko santushti hona hi nahi hai.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath1:45:47

       Mm.

    7. MPManish Poddar1:45:48

       I go to my office, and, uh, they have this internal-

    8. NKNikhil Kamath1:45:51

       Messages with pictures.

    9. MPManish Poddar1:45:52

       Yeah, yeah. Aap aap, WhatsApp ka journey wahi hai na?

    10. NKNikhil Kamath1:45:55

        Mm.

    11. MPManish Poddar1:45:55

        So in fact, message, talking about message with pictures, so I had to do learn styling. I was not a designer, uh, officially. I stole five thousand rupees from my mother's cupboard. I applied to some lady in Worli Sea Face who could get me brochures of colleges to go abroad. I, mujhe hi jana tha abroad. Meaning, no one asked.

    12. NKNikhil Kamath1:46:15

        Digressing, did you steal money from your mother's cupboard?

    13. GAGhazal Alagh1:46:17

        Yes.

    14. MPManish Poddar1:46:19

        Agarwale, yaar. Kiya hoga Ritesh Agarwal.

    15. NKNikhil Kamath1:46:21

        Kabhi toh kiya hoga.

    16. GAGhazal Alagh1:46:22

        You were a very good child, ya?

    17. NKNikhil Kamath1:46:23

        Huh?

    18. MPManish Poddar1:46:23

        Nahi kiya.

    19. NKNikhil Kamath1:46:24

        I'm talking, like, fifty rupees.

    20. MPManish Poddar1:46:25

        I was three-

    21. GAGhazal Alagh1:46:26

        Kabhi nahi kiya.

    22. MPManish Poddar1:46:26

        I was three years old when I first stole twenty-five paise.

    23. NKNikhil Kamath1:46:28

        Ghazal?

    24. GAGhazal Alagh1:46:29

        I have. I have. [chuckles]

    25. MPManish Poddar1:46:31

        But Mom se, uh, pitai hoti thi, ki number, uh, kam aaye toh uski pitai hoti thi.

    26. NKNikhil Kamath1:46:36

        Hamare number-

    27. MPManish Poddar1:46:36

        Bahut darte the, matlab Maa se toh itna darte the ki dur se dekhe toh matlab pranam.

    28. NKNikhil Kamath1:46:41

        We'll come into that, why we three have and you haven't? It's an interesting question. [laughing]

    29. MPManish Poddar1:46:45

        Continue. Doodh ke dhule kaise hue?

    30. NKNikhil Kamath1:46:48

        Nahi, woh doodh ke dhule-
21. 1:48:36 – 1:55:45

    Culture of European Fashion Companies

    1. MPManish Poddar1:48:36

       So my first collection I did is I took some fabrics from, uh, Hind Mata.

    2. NKNikhil Kamath1:48:40

       Mm.

    3. MPManish Poddar1:48:41

       Theater ke peeche, ladies' dukaan thi, all these chikan fabrics.

    4. NKNikhil Kamath1:48:45

       In Bombay?

    5. MPManish Poddar1:48:46

       Bombay.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath1:48:46

       Okay.

    7. MPManish Poddar1:48:46

       Just picked up anything, filled a car, went to Dharavi, did some block printing on it. [coughs]

    8. NKNikhil Kamath1:48:52

       For Zara?

    9. MPManish Poddar1:48:52

       Made some shirts. No, I just first made it, then I called them up, and I went and showed them. They were, like, stunned. I said, "It's a temple," that jagah, woh, it's a mad place, you know? They have a very simple philosophy in the company. Someone's coming from China, it takes them twenty-four hours to come here. Someone from India takes eighteen hours, sixteen hours to come through, come here, because there's no direct flight to Spain air. So everybody's ready to come here and show them this fuchsia with that work on it, right? You designers cannot dream that. Okay, we've got the paparazzis to release whatever is shot in Milan and all of that-

    10. GAGhazal Alagh1:49:30

        Yeah.

    11. MPManish Poddar1:49:30

        -because now the phones are your freedom of search.

    12. NKNikhil Kamath1:49:33

        Yeah.

    13. MPManish Poddar1:49:34

        Earlier, they had to be like, [clicks tongue] those kind of thing, and those are paid guys who give the images out. And, uh, so they cannot refuse somebody.

    14. GAGhazal Alagh1:49:45

        And why do you think is that?

    15. MPManish Poddar1:49:47

        Because he's coming, he's taking the trouble to come and show you a bag of forty-five, hundred garments.... I'll relate it to you. If someone is coming in from Korea to show you design of bottles, every week, five times, five new guys are coming and showing you bottles of designs, why would you even dream of saying no? Why would you even create a wall?

    16. NKNikhil Kamath1:50:07

        No, but it's a great, uh, it's a great culture.

    17. MPManish Poddar1:50:09

        Why would you create a wall in your office saying, "Bhaiya, busy ho aap log," or busy koi nahi hai?

    18. SPSpeaker1:50:13

        Exactly my point.

    19. MPManish Poddar1:50:14

        Woh toh bottle hi design kar raha hai.

    20. SPSpeaker1:50:15

        See, that's the bias that we talk about.

    21. MPManish Poddar1:50:16

        Woh design aa raha hai tumhare paas. Then why?

    22. NKNikhil Kamath1:50:18

        What else is to learn from, um, Inditex? One learning you mentioned is, uh-

    23. MPManish Poddar1:50:24

        So in my office-

    24. NKNikhil Kamath1:50:24

        you know, no meetings can be refused. What else?

    25. MPManish Poddar1:50:26

        So I, I take un, uh, unregistered numbers. Uh, I take it because I just think someday a vendor is calling me, and they said-

    26. NKNikhil Kamath1:50:33

        I should miss

    27. MPManish Poddar1:50:33

        ... "Apka number kahi se, kahi se mila hai." I said, "Main aapko ek number bhejta hu, aap aaiye zarur." So their logic is very simple, okay? Uh, this has got a skewed, tailored pocket. It's done by hand. This can't be stitched. The designer has to find this, and he has to listen that the Japanese guy is saying something, and he has to take it back, and you do what you want to do behind. So my shirts would go like, they made-- they have a hundred thousand square feet [coughs] showroom in the office, blank white, like a clinic, like a lab, and they're building the collection for the next season, which is nine months later. So they've come, and they say: "Okay, we are thinking about the city name, boys, and graphics." Someone has thought, we've built a board, and luckily, he comes with this T-shirt, and I go with this T-shirt. I go down to the... It's a closed, private area. "Oh, it fits well. Come back." And while they're walking up only, they'll rear, "Russia? Okay. Europe? Fine. US? Done." Forty thousand pieces, one color. Done. No PO. You pack your bag, you leave. You start production. While, while you sit in the car, you've already started taking the yarn, booking, closing.

    28. SPSpeaker1:51:46

        I'm, I'm loving this.

    29. MPManish Poddar1:51:47

        And they're-

    30. SPSpeaker1:51:48

        Is this-
22. 1:55:45 – 2:03:35

    What does it take to build a Fashion Brand today?

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:55:45

       looking to start a fashion brand? I think this-

    2. MPManish Poddar1:55:47

       If you want to start a fashion brand, ever, uh, first, the pinnacle, of course, is creativity. You have to have a nag.... you cannot say that if I'm successful, go and make a fashion brand tomorrow, which every- most of the guys are trying to do it.

    3. NKNikhil Kamath1:56:03

       Knack for?

    4. MPManish Poddar1:56:04

       You have to have creativity. You have to-

    5. NKNikhil Kamath1:56:07

       Hmm.

    6. MPManish Poddar1:56:07

       You have to look-

    7. NKNikhil Kamath1:56:09

       Change

    8. MPManish Poddar1:56:09

       ... fashionable before even thinking it.

    9. NKNikhil Kamath1:56:10

       What is creativity? You both said this. How do I define creativity?

    10. MPManish Poddar1:56:15

        Give me a wall and ask someone who-

    11. GAGhazal Alagh1:56:16

        For example, when he's saying how to-

    12. MPManish Poddar1:56:17

        I'll rearrange your furniture right now in a different manner, it'll be creative. And-

    13. NKNikhil Kamath1:56:22

        So what is that?

    14. MPManish Poddar1:56:22

        And it's about, it's about actually giving the presence of mind to that subject.

    15. NKNikhil Kamath1:56:25

        Is your, is it-

    16. MPManish Poddar1:56:26

        Someone like you will say, "Why am I doing this? Why was I even given that task?"

    17. NKNikhil Kamath1:56:29

        Hmm.

    18. MPManish Poddar1:56:30

        "My mind is somewhere else. I'm a number guy."

    19. NKNikhil Kamath1:56:31

        Is it your ability to move away from conformity that you are saying is creativity? I would leave-

    20. MPManish Poddar1:56:37

        Also, yes

    21. NKNikhil Kamath1:56:37

        ... the furniture this way because-

    22. MPManish Poddar1:56:38

        I agree. Yes, because conformity is,

    23. NKNikhil Kamath1:56:42

        The ability, I-

    24. GAGhazal Alagh1:56:43

        I would define it as the ability of letting things evolve s- in your mind.

    25. NKNikhil Kamath1:56:51

        Dif- differently from convention?

    26. GAGhazal Alagh1:56:52

        Different from convention. Something that's evolving in your mind, you're able to envision it, and then possibly create something out of it. At least paintings-

    27. MPManish Poddar1:57:01

        No, but-

    28. GAGhazal Alagh1:57:01

        ... even the products that I create, that's, that's-

    29. MPManish Poddar1:57:03

        Yeah, but in the mind, people like him, maybe... I'm sorry, I'm just judging you-

    30. NKNikhil Kamath1:57:07

        No, go for it
23. 2:03:35 – 2:11:03

    Importance of Embracing Risk in Entrepreneurship

    1. NKNikhil Kamath2:03:35

       ability.

    2. MPManish Poddar2:03:36

       Very important.

    3. NKNikhil Kamath2:03:37

       For an entrepreneur.

    4. MPManish Poddar2:03:37

       Absolutely. I mean, uh, let me put it in a, in a better way, that I have a sort of family and mentality, right? It, it's, it's a way of thinking, a risk-taking, and there are always an outlier. I am an outlier, and I said: I want to take a loan. And I didn't badly sell it to my dad, but I just gave him a very different equation, que end mein jab depreciation milega, woh toh wapas hi mil raha hai apan ko tax mein.

    5. NKNikhil Kamath2:04:03

       Mm.

    6. MPManish Poddar2:04:04

       Mujhe laga ki woh depreciation koi, koi alag se bhagwan aa raha hai humare ghar pe. Woh humara hi paisa wapas ghoom ke aa raha hai. That is, that part I didn't understand, or I didn't correlate it then, and I kept putting this fact-

    7. NKNikhil Kamath2:04:16

       Can you explain it for the audience, the concept of depreciation when you start a business?

    8. MPManish Poddar2:04:21

       Like that one or this one?

    9. NKNikhil Kamath2:04:22

       Both.

    10. MPManish Poddar2:04:23

        Both. Oh, that one was very simple. I was putting hundred bucks, and I thought ki, uh, someone explained me, "Tumhara, tumhara toh company mein profit hai hi. Tum das, pandrah crore kama rahe hai. Tumko itna hi vyaj dena hai." And my loan was eight and a half percent, minus five percent for TUF scheme, Textile Upgradation Scheme, and which was resultant at four percent subsidy, after subsidy. So tumko yeh mil jayega, and then end mein tumhara jab profit aayega das rupiya, toh tumko so ka depreciation milega, bara percent building ka itna, uska itna, uska itna. Yeh minus ho gaya, tumne end mein toh tax itna hi bhara. So the way you-- I looked at that was like, you know, some God gift check is coming here in the middle-

    11. GAGhazal Alagh2:05:06

        Yeah

    12. MPManish Poddar2:05:06

        ... for depreciation. And Dad didn't-- This was too much for him, too. He just trusted me blindly and said, "Abhi itna tak le aaya ladka, toh abhi jo kar raha hoga, theek hi kar raha hoga."

    13. NKNikhil Kamath2:05:16

        And how much money did you have when you borrowed thirty-seven crores?

    14. MPManish Poddar2:05:20

        I had, uh... So my, my part was-

    15. NKNikhil Kamath2:05:24

        Net money in your-- net money to your name in this world.

    16. MPManish Poddar2:05:28

        Oh, uh, just one apartment, uh, of three crores, which also I borrowed from my dad. That one, I, I literally told him: I want to borrow this. After marriage, I wanted to move out to an apartment at Worli Seaface, and I said, "I'll pay you this back in three years," but I did it in one year, and, uh, that was in when I was twenty-five, first year, two years after marriage. And, uh, and after five years of that, I went and put this factory, and, uh-

    17. NKNikhil Kamath2:05:57

        So maybe five, ten crores?

    18. MPManish Poddar2:05:59

        What?

    19. NKNikhil Kamath2:06:00

        You had to your name?

    20. MPManish Poddar2:06:01

        Ten, ten-ish.

    21. NKNikhil Kamath2:06:02

        I feel like this is the biggest... Whenever I talk to people who are very successful like you guys, often it comes down to risk-taking ability. Who is willing to put it all on the line?

    22. MPManish Poddar2:06:14

        Yeah, otherwise, it doesn't happen.

    23. NKNikhil Kamath2:06:16

        Okay, we were at thirty-seven crore loan when you had ten crores to your name.

    24. MPManish Poddar2:06:20

        I was, I was devastated and screwed at that time of this loan.

    25. NKNikhil Kamath2:06:25

        Mm.

    26. MPManish Poddar2:06:26

        Uh, I thought I could make a cheaper factory buying my own steel, getting it converted, making a PB structure.

    27. NKNikhil Kamath2:06:31

        Mm.

    28. MPManish Poddar2:06:32

        That factory design was designed by me-

    29. NKNikhil Kamath2:06:34

        Mm

    30. MPManish Poddar2:06:34

        ... because I was stranded in Hamburg Airport.
24. 2:11:03 – 2:12:10

    What is styling?

    1. NKNikhil Kamath2:11:03

       mean? Like, if you were to say-

    2. MPManish Poddar2:11:05

       If you can, uh, coordinate your attire, uh-

    3. NKNikhil Kamath2:11:08

       Is it the colors that go with each other? Is it the fabric?

    4. MPManish Poddar2:11:11

       I'll give you a simple thing. If I'm, if I was in black today, and if I had any small pa- piece of black cloth with these, uh, dandelions on them-

    5. SPSpeaker2:11:20

       Mm.

    6. MPManish Poddar2:11:20

       ... I would probably have it inside here, showing a bit here and... So I've styled myself today. I've kind of embraced-

    7. NKNikhil Kamath2:11:27

       Basically, you pay more time and attention-

    8. MPManish Poddar2:11:29

       My mother is a stylist. Leftover food or whatever ingredients raat ko bara baje ladke ne kuch maanga, she'll style something and cook something out of it, whatever is available.

    9. SPSpeaker2:11:37

       So basically-

    10. MPManish Poddar2:11:37

        Basically, thought

    11. SPSpeaker2:11:38

        ... how do you put-

    12. MPManish Poddar2:11:39

        Together

    13. SPSpeaker2:11:39

        ... how do you put stuff together is style?

    14. MPManish Poddar2:11:42

        Yes.

    15. NKNikhil Kamath2:11:42

        So in-

    16. MPManish Poddar2:11:43

        And fashion is-

    17. SPSpeaker2:11:43

        Wearing clothes is one-

    18. MPManish Poddar2:11:44

        Fashion is today, okay, straight jeans, torn jeans, bl- broad leg jeans.

    19. SPSpeaker2:11:48

        Mm.

    20. MPManish Poddar2:11:48

        Fine, it's today, it's not tomorrow.

    21. SPSpeaker2:11:51

        Mm.

    22. MPManish Poddar2:11:51

        But there are guys who wear those same broad leg jeans, they've never left it since '80s. But they'll also go to the skinny. Today, they'll also wear a bell.

    23. SPSpeaker2:11:58

        Mm.

    24. MPManish Poddar2:11:58

        Because their style quotient says, "Today, I want to be like this."

    25. NKNikhil Kamath2:12:02

        Okay, let's go to thirty-seven to Rare Rabbit. I'll tell you the appetite for Rare Rabbit in the market right now, okay? I was

25. 2:12:10 – 2:17:30

    Story behind Rare Rabbit

    1. NKNikhil Kamath2:12:10

       at a event... I, I actually even didn't tell you this. I was at a event with some investors. One sovereign fund, Southeast Asian country, uh, their India CEO or something like that was there. He comes up to me and he says: "Why don't you reduce your allocation to Rare Rabbit so we can do more?" I obviously said, "You know, tum bada mera khayal rakhte ho," [chuckles] for me to reciprocate. But there is that much-

    2. MPManish Poddar2:12:38

       So that you invest in him.

    3. SPSpeaker2:12:39

       Wow!

    4. NKNikhil Kamath2:12:39

       There's that much appetite.

    5. MPManish Poddar2:12:40

       So that you invest in him.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath2:12:41

       No, so that he can invest more in you.

    7. MPManish Poddar2:12:43

       I didn't want to even raise that much. I didn't want to raise at all. That comes as a different thing, but for the guys who are twenty and, uh, when, when you're getting depressed out of not getting charm of designing, going there, and they're trying to take the same garments out of Cambodia, and then China, and Bangladesh, and you're getting just defeated, and how much-- you're not going to catch the collars. And I was not getting the juice, and I always had that, that there has to be juice in the game. I'm, I can't be that startup blood. I'm not IIM Kharagpur. I'm not all these, uh-

    8. NKNikhil Kamath2:13:18

       Yeah

    9. MPManish Poddar2:13:18

       ... that, that breed of, uh, or that, or the breed of mine is very different, and my backgrounds came differently to me, and their backgrounds came differently to me. But mujhe woh gestation period wala, aur dil dhdak jayega mera toh, yaar, itna kitna teen sal, che sal ruk raha hoon-

    10. SPSpeaker2:13:33

        [chuckles]

    11. MPManish Poddar2:13:33

        ... ki ek din light jalegi. Kab jalegi, yaar? Kidhar hai switch? How can you take so long to find a switch, you know?

    12. SPSpeaker2:13:39

        [chuckles]

    13. MPManish Poddar2:13:39

        So they cannot-- someone who doesn't, cannot make two plus two-

    14. NKNikhil Kamath2:13:43

        Mm

    15. MPManish Poddar2:13:43

        ... make money, I think it's, for me, I don't know how to swallow that.

    16. NKNikhil Kamath2:13:50

        Yeah.

    17. MPManish Poddar2:13:50

        And one day, I was standing at Forum Mall, and I was like: I've created brands, then why men don't look good here, yeah, style-wise? And what are these brands doing? Actually, when I was-- then also to come out of this European business, I told all these European guys, "Please give me your Indian office business. I'll change everything for you. I don't want to travel and all of that." I did all of that. I created good lines for all the fashion brands here, and then, and I was expensive for them, you know, they could not afford me or things like that. Then I said, "Forget it, yeah, let's create a brand."... and here I come after two years of depression, almost, that, uh, I'm not happy with my working and nothing. I was quiet, suddenly out of the picture, and I said, "I want to create a brand, and what should it be?" And I said-- I came up with Rare Rabbit, and only because, uh, rabbit is a sexual mammal, it multiplies the fastest in the world, and, uh-

    18. NKNikhil Kamath2:14:43

        Did you like the sexual content- connotation or the multiplication?

    19. MPManish Poddar2:14:46

        The sexual part, as well as the multiplication-

    20. NKNikhil Kamath2:14:47

        Yeah.

    21. MPManish Poddar2:14:47

        -because I multiplied thrice for my s- my own, uh, [laughing] legacy.

    22. NKNikhil Kamath2:14:52

        [laughing]

    23. MPManish Poddar2:14:53

        So, and, uh, but men in India should be rare and respect their sexuality, and be rare in that. You are a rabbit, but be rare. And the, the least you can do is to dress so that you can address the-- your opposite. That's the whole funda behind it.

    24. NKNikhil Kamath2:15:11

        Ritesh is like: "I'm doing it already, bro."

    25. MPManish Poddar2:15:13

        [chuckles] And you had Mr. Vedanta once saying that, uh, of Vedanta's CEO, Mr. Agarwal, that, "To address, you have to dress." It was in his Forbes magazine first line.

    26. NKNikhil Kamath2:15:22

        He actually dresses well.

    27. GAGhazal Alagh2:15:23

        Do you think styling in India can be a big business opportunity?

    28. MPManish Poddar2:15:28

        [lip smack] "... " It is. That's why it's, uh, probably... So we curate, uh, men's fashion, uh, in a very different-- we do it for India. The way you said that hydration cannot come from Korean recipe, because I know it's very cold there, and they need less absorbency, and we dry faster, we're equatorial belt. Similarly, our tummy is two inches higher, and, uh, than any average person, so our last button is to be relaxing on that. It's horizontal, not vertical. And when I started the brand, I, I just put in a line, and, uh, I went-- I created that line. I s- invested money in that. Nothing, one and a half crore, twenty-five thousand pieces, just made it. Color blocked it, because if you go to our store, you'll see color blocking in our scene. If he's what he... I'm only navy always, mostly, so I will not go to a particular section of my store.

    29. NKNikhil Kamath2:16:24

        A- have I styled myself well?

    30. MPManish Poddar2:16:26

        Uh, yeah, you can say that. [laughing]
26. 2:17:30 – 2:19:15

    Does getting influencers work for brands?

    1. MPManish Poddar2:17:30

       and it's been done repeatedly in the country. And, uh, neither I have the money or I'm going to-- or I, or the nag, actually, after maybe the factory investment, that I can go and get a celebrity face and then-

    2. NKNikhil Kamath2:17:42

       Do you think that works for someone young, starting a brand, paying an influencer-

    3. MPManish Poddar2:17:46

       Never

    4. NKNikhil Kamath2:17:46

       ... actor?

    5. MPManish Poddar2:17:47

       Never.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath2:17:47

       No?

    7. MPManish Poddar2:17:48

       No.

    8. NKNikhil Kamath2:17:48

       Why is that?

    9. MPManish Poddar2:17:49

       For me, uh, you'll think differently because it's a women category.

    10. GAGhazal Alagh2:17:54

        On influencer, I think differently.

    11. MPManish Poddar2:17:55

        Influencer is a different-

    12. GAGhazal Alagh2:17:56

        But even influencer in fashion, I would-

    13. MPManish Poddar2:17:57

        No

    14. GAGhazal Alagh2:17:58

        ... think differently.

    15. MPManish Poddar2:17:58

        Yeah, but I-- my office believes in it; I don't.

    16. NKNikhil Kamath2:18:02

        Why?

    17. MPManish Poddar2:18:02

        Uh, for me, it's, uh, short-lived. The way I engage myself on Instagram, I'm also a consumer. Uh, I'm too fast, and I need new, new, new, new, new. So, so it's-- I don't know how much does it resonate to convert and understand the brand. Um, I follow, among all the actors, maybe, uh, Mr. Pankaj Tripathi and, uh, Amitabh Bachchan, for two different-- one is legacy in my life, and, uh, one is, uh, the new, I think, the new man of substance who speaks great. So, uh-

    18. NKNikhil Kamath2:18:43

        Pankaj Tripathi.

    19. MPManish Poddar2:18:44

        Yeah.

    20. NKNikhil Kamath2:18:44

        Some people on social media tell me I look like him.

    21. MPManish Poddar2:18:47

        If you act-

    22. NKNikhil Kamath2:18:48

        But he has exceptional depth.

    23. MPManish Poddar2:18:49

        But, yeah, I think you could pull off very well in Mirzapur.

    24. NKNikhil Kamath2:18:52

        I can.

    25. MPManish Poddar2:18:53

        Uh-

    26. NKNikhil Kamath2:18:53

        I can, I take it as a compliment.

    27. MPManish Poddar2:18:54

        He will, he will, hundred percent.

    28. NKNikhil Kamath2:18:55

        He was good in Mirzapur.

    29. GAGhazal Alagh2:18:56

        It's a compliment.

    30. MPManish Poddar2:18:56

        Someone should cast him well.
27. 2:19:15 – 2:24:05

    What worked for Rare Rabbit?

    1. MPManish Poddar2:19:15

       Rigidity, it's very important, uh-

    2. NKNikhil Kamath2:19:18

       Explain rigidity.

    3. MPManish Poddar2:19:19

       Rigidity for me is that I'm the only-- we are the only brand which has no logo on the chest, because I never wore a brand on my chest all my life. Whatever wealth I would have earned in my life, I never wore a brand which someone can recognize what I'm wearing, and that's what probably Italians taught me, or that's what Spanish fashion taught me. They are never on the face. I had a choice of doing jeans wear or a formal brand. This is the only two fashion concept existing in India. There's nothing called smart wear, and, uh, which exists in Europe. It doesn't exist in Y- uh, in the rest of the world. There is no... So there's jeans, uh, there's business, they call formal in India, and there's a smart. The smart dressing doesn't exist in India. And I said, "I can't do formal because I have to compete with such legacies here, and I can't do jeans because it could-- it caters to youth, youth, uh, that I've been." [烟斗] And, uh, to my equation of mind, because I knew how that two and two works, is that if I don't have a multiplier-... I, if I don't get that GP, I'm not going to sustain to sell.

    4. NKNikhil Kamath2:20:34

       What is GP?

    5. MPManish Poddar2:20:35

       Gross margin, the gross profit. And to do that GP, everything around it has to be perfect. So my store has to be designed the way I imagine the Europeans see it. And there's another underlying message for all designers or creative people who want to do anything in India, is that do it from what you have seen or perceived from the West, because you're trying to create a culture here.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath2:20:58

       Mm.

    7. MPManish Poddar2:20:58

       You're not create-- If you're making a jutti of Chandigarh or you're making a chaniya choli of Rajasthan, then bring that culture here, then make your store look at jharokha, balcony hona hai, sandstone ka banao, jo bhi karna hai, because that, that essence comes firmly as a juice. But if you're trying to say the word Western world, then you have to be resonating it to a storytelling, communication of design, holistic approach, and the difference that you're trying to first create. Like, oversized T-shirts is selling very well today, what you're wearing, the boxy fits, but it's already a clutter now. Now, if someone has to come with this, he has to be very adaptive that I'll make the same boxy, but I'm going to come with city names today. Tomorrow, can I use the word just Bachchans? Because it's not registered. The Khan, something like that-

    8. NKNikhil Kamath2:21:46

       How does one find that gap?

    9. MPManish Poddar2:21:47

       So you become the series.

    10. NKNikhil Kamath2:21:48

        Like, what you are saying, how do I find?

    11. MPManish Poddar2:21:50

        It's intuition. It's your-- It comes out of desperate mistakes. Most of the business, I think, are created by your own, uh, realization that I miss it in my life.

    12. NKNikhil Kamath2:21:58

        Mm.

    13. MPManish Poddar2:21:59

        Uh, I think most of them, in product at least. Uh, unless, I don't know what the backgrounds of the, uh, FMCG companies otherwise have been, commercial ones. But the new ones, anything I would say, it comes from that, "This is what my style was," it became brand. The Blue Orange became a brand.

    14. NKNikhil Kamath2:22:16

        Mm.

    15. MPManish Poddar2:22:17

        I respect them, I-

    16. NKNikhil Kamath2:22:17

        Jaywalking.

    17. MPManish Poddar2:22:18

        The Jaywalking, because that's the cult, that's the way, work, the design. I think these guys would have probably been somewhere in the world or got hold of that one piece, and they said, "That's my style." That style became so popular among the friends, "Yaar, acha lag raha hai, mujhe bhi chahiye, kahan milega? Kahan milega?"

    18. NKNikhil Kamath2:22:33

        Do you think because the clothing market is so penetrated today in terms of access, you have to hit a niche and play there?

    19. MPManish Poddar2:22:42

        So rightly said in your lines only, we are a clothing manufacturing country.

    20. NKNikhil Kamath2:22:47

        Mm.

    21. MPManish Poddar2:22:47

        We are not a fashion business country.

    22. NKNikhil Kamath2:22:50

        Mm.

    23. MPManish Poddar2:22:51

        We don't create fashion.

    24. NKNikhil Kamath2:22:52

        Mm.

    25. MPManish Poddar2:22:53

        We don't buy, design, sell fashion, other than the designers that we have who are doing, I think, the best in the world also.

    26. NKNikhil Kamath2:22:59

        Mm.

    27. MPManish Poddar2:22:59

        They're world-ranking. We have Dior making their, uh, their entire marriage gowns in Bombay. That's also embroidered in India. I mean, I have seen back in those day, Armani sending the suits lapel, just the silk from Italy to Lucknow to do one embroidery of chicken work, and goes flying back there to stitch it with the suit there. So that's how... Th-they, and they go that mile-

    28. NKNikhil Kamath2:23:23

        Mm

    29. MPManish Poddar2:23:24

        ... to, and they, in those days, when there's no Instagram and all of that, they were doing it from an archive book, and a designer there is as eager bird who's taking that trouble to go to the, the, the Instagram, which is the library then, picking up something and trying to throw that knowledge in the Armani's office, that, "I want to do this. It's available in India. It's in Lucknow." And they said: Okay, talk to global office, Hong Kong. They'll connect you to a buying office in Delhi. We'll send it to them. They'll get this embroidery done. Usne usmein apna ghar ka painting kara liya hoga. Woh so piece bheja hoga, ghar ka pura, pura ghar exterior, interior paint ho jayega. Armani ka hi order hai na ek, embroidery ka.

    30. NKNikhil Kamath2:24:04

        What

28. 2:24:05 – 2:26:51

    What was the breakthrough point in Rare Rabbit

    1. NKNikhil Kamath2:24:05

       was the breakthrough point for Rare Rabbit?

    2. MPManish Poddar2:24:07

       I would say the breaking point to answer is that, uh, when we were stuck on our business, uh... So the biggest challenge we faced is getting real estate.

    3. NKNikhil Kamath2:24:17

       Mm.

    4. MPManish Poddar2:24:18

       India mein koi phone nahi uthata. New bird ko toh koi samjhta bhi nahi hai. That's why I was asking her again and again, in your industry, do they pick up that call? And, uh, I proposed this once when I didn't have one store also with one of the largest builders and developers, "And you'll have such millions of square feet. Give three thousand square feet in a corner of a mall for young guys to come and demonstrate their talent without signing those LOI, big, big pages. Just give them so much table, one hanger."

    5. NKNikhil Kamath2:24:47

       Is that how malls work? Do they care which brand is coming so much-

    6. MPManish Poddar2:24:51

       Oh!

    7. NKNikhil Kamath2:24:51

       ... or is it about the rate per square feet?

    8. MPManish Poddar2:24:53

       So I am, I am trying to sign or get... No, they have to create this ecosystem.

    9. NKNikhil Kamath2:24:57

       Mm.

    10. MPManish Poddar2:24:57

        They cannot have five rows of chocolate and ice cream and coffee shops. It's an ecosystem which I've learned, and it's a very hard business they are also tracking. They believe-

    11. NKNikhil Kamath2:25:05

        So how do, if I have to start it-

    12. MPManish Poddar2:25:06

        They trusted Rare Rabbit, they give a store, and imagine nobody comes in there.

    13. NKNikhil Kamath2:25:09

        Mm.

    14. MPManish Poddar2:25:10

        So I kind of bring down their footfall.

    15. NKNikhil Kamath2:25:14

        Mm.

    16. MPManish Poddar2:25:14

        And if they do twenty mistakes on a floor-

    17. NKNikhil Kamath2:25:16

        Mm

    18. MPManish Poddar2:25:16

        ... that floor is dead.

    19. NKNikhil Kamath2:25:17

        The twenty-first store will not get rented because that person said, "Footfalls nahi aa rahe."

    20. MPManish Poddar2:25:21

        Nahi, twenty-first wala toh bolega, "Aap kya karein, sir, koi hamare floor mein ghum hi nahi raha hai."

    21. NKNikhil Kamath2:25:25

        Mm.

    22. MPManish Poddar2:25:26

        There are some malls who do man, woman mix. They're not dissecting properly.

    23. NKNikhil Kamath2:25:30

        So if I'm a brand, what can I do to be more attractive to a mall?

    24. MPManish Poddar2:25:35

        Honest, honestly speaking-

    25. NKNikhil Kamath2:25:35

        Like I'm twenty-one, I start a brand-

    26. MPManish Poddar2:25:37

        Impossible

    27. NKNikhil Kamath2:25:38

        ... I want store space.

    28. MPManish Poddar2:25:39

        Impossible.

    29. NKNikhil Kamath2:25:40

        Is there no hack for it?

    30. MPManish Poddar2:25:41

        I would not say the word impossible. Just forget it.
29. 2:26:51 – 2:37:05

    Hacks to start a clothing brand

    1. NKNikhil Kamath2:26:51

       young.

    2. MPManish Poddar2:26:52

       Find a difference.

    3. NKNikhil Kamath2:26:53

       Give us some examples of differences you think might work today.

    4. MPManish Poddar2:26:57

       Today, khadi.

    5. NKNikhil Kamath2:26:59

       Khadi?

    6. MPManish Poddar2:27:00

       We are the only country in the world who makes this fiber and this yarn, and this-

    7. NKNikhil Kamath2:27:03

       You think going back to India, using Bandhani, that Kantara, khadi, putting these together?

    8. MPManish Poddar2:27:09

       So that's women's side of the khadi, you know?

    9. NKNikhil Kamath2:27:11

       Uh.

    10. MPManish Poddar2:27:11

        Uh, which is very highly embellished, still with a lot of work, which is very women.

    11. NKNikhil Kamath2:27:16

        Mm-hmm.

    12. MPManish Poddar2:27:16

        The true, true khadi India, it's a textile.

    13. NKNikhil Kamath2:27:20

        Like Gandhiji khadi.

    14. MPManish Poddar2:27:21

        The Gandhiji khadi, jo udyog bhawan mein milta hai. It is the best cotton you can touch. There's nothing-

    15. NKNikhil Kamath2:27:27

        Khadi is cotton?

    16. MPManish Poddar2:27:28

        Khadi is nothing but, uh, raw cotton, which has got seeds still in it, not removed. The s- seed, uh, kints are not removed out of it.

    17. GAGhazal Alagh2:27:38

        It's a little rough to touch.

    18. MPManish Poddar2:27:39

        I- it's rough. Uh, the organic-- if this was an organic, this would be all... If recycled, then it is going to be rough. Uh, you dye it with only vegetable dyes and everything. You spin it this way by hand, like Gandhiji, you-

    19. NKNikhil Kamath2:27:53

        On the chakra.

    20. MPManish Poddar2:27:54

        Yeah. And so you have very uneven yarn-

    21. NKNikhil Kamath2:27:56

        Mm.

    22. MPManish Poddar2:27:56

        -and then you weave it by hand. It's the softest fabric. It's the most organic factri- fabric that you want to be in, and there are villagers living on that today. Uh, they're desperate to get even money. Today, Raw Mango is doing a brilliant job. Their sarees are expensive. And today, the advice to a twenty year is go and try to touch khadi, because it's the only fabric in the world which only exists in India. There's no other f- every other fabric is global. This is only Indian.

    23. NKNikhil Kamath2:28:24

        It's an interesting idea. We should, we should try T-shirts in khadi.

    24. MPManish Poddar2:28:29

        T-shirts nahi ban sakega.

    25. GAGhazal Alagh2:28:30

        T-shirts nahi banega.

    26. NKNikhil Kamath2:28:31

        Nahi banega?

    27. MPManish Poddar2:28:31

        Nahi.

    28. GAGhazal Alagh2:28:32

        You'll have shirts or balgalas.

    29. MPManish Poddar2:28:34

        You have to weave it by hand.

    30. GAGhazal Alagh2:28:35

        Shirts, balgalas, kurtas.
30. 2:37:05 – 2:38:30

    Nikhil Summarises Manish Poddar Journey

    1. NKNikhil Kamath2:37:05

       That's why he said he has the most flexible back.

    2. MPManish Poddar2:37:08

       About anything.

    3. NKNikhil Kamath2:37:09

       Hmm. Again, creative, parallel with you. I think, I think attention to detail is something that came across while you were speaking many, many times, from the perfume in all your stores, to the music, to where the buttons are. Indian waist is two inches higher. So whoever is attempting this needs to pay that much attention to detail to build in this space, that young twenty-one-year-old.

    4. MPManish Poddar2:37:36

       And you also keep looking around your own society.

    5. NKNikhil Kamath2:37:38

       Hmm. Story, most important. Also, IP. Your story is as important as, as the product, if not more.

    6. MPManish Poddar2:37:47

       Yeah, absolutely.

    7. NKNikhil Kamath2:37:49

       Another big thing that came across from Manish: no ego. Shameless, relentless is his superpower. Ability or willingness to bend your back, very, very important. Can't have shame when you're asking for business.

    8. MPManish Poddar2:38:02

       And, and not to forget, India is a very colorful country, so don't hide from color.

    9. NKNikhil Kamath2:38:07

       And I think in a world full of ego-

    10. MPManish Poddar2:38:08

        We are a very colorful brand

    11. NKNikhil Kamath2:38:09

        ... that can be your superpower.

    12. NKNikhil Kamath2:38:12

        Say it again.

    13. NKNikhil Kamath2:38:13

        In a world full of ego, that can actually become your superpower.

    14. NKNikhil Kamath2:38:18

        In a world full of ego?

    15. MPManish Poddar2:38:19

        Yeah.

    16. NKNikhil Kamath2:38:20

        Not having one. Yeah. Yeah. Moving on to Ritesh.

    17. RARitesh Agarwal2:38:26

        I shouldn't have come, uh, interjected. [laughing] It was going all right.

31. 2:38:30 – 2:43:00

    Ritesh Agarwal Introduction: Calmness and Belief in God

    1. RARitesh Agarwal2:38:30

       I loved being a spectator.

    2. NKNikhil Kamath2:38:32

       I came to you last because you're very popular.

    3. RARitesh Agarwal2:38:36

       Thank you.

    4. NKNikhil Kamath2:38:36

       I read in some magazine that you were the most eligible bachelor in India.

    5. NKNikhil Kamath2:38:40

       Was.

    6. RARitesh Agarwal2:38:40

       I thought that was you.

    7. NKNikhil Kamath2:38:41

       Was.

    8. NKNikhil Kamath2:38:41

       Before, before marriage. [laughing]

    9. MPManish Poddar2:38:42

       So you gate crashed his house as well? [laughing]

    10. NKNikhil Kamath2:38:45

        ... I, I should have. I haven't yet. When I go to Delhi next, I will get-

    11. RARitesh Agarwal2:38:49

        Please, please, I'd love to host you.

    12. NKNikhil Kamath2:38:50

        So Ritesh is a very unassuming, sweet, amicable person. Basically, he doesn't show his real self to anyone. Somebody so nice can't be so successful. Fundamental belief in life.

Episode duration: 4:14:42