Charlie Kirk Assassination: Condemnation, Division, and Conspiracies | Pivot

Kara Swisher 0:00 Whoever did this was like, "I'm gonna take my gun. I am gonna climb up on that roof. I am gonna murder someone," and thinking it was the right choice. You know what I mean? Like, this is your only choi- why didn't you go down there and ask him a fucking question and yell at him? Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

Scott Galloway 0:24 And I'm Scott Galloway.

Kara Swisher 0:26 So, today we should start very much saying what happened yesterday

Kara Swisher 0:30 in Utah was, uh, a terrible and tragic situation. Um, I think, uh, there's been a lot of, like, a lot of anger, a lot of accusations, a lot of really ugly stuff going on. Um, but, uh, being able to speak even if you disagree with someone and, and as y- you might imagine, we, we, Scott and I have disagreed with Charlie Kirk many times. You can say what you want, but getting- having this happen is probably the most heinous thing, uh, that could occur in a country like the United States where we are supposed to be able to say the most horrible things and continue to debate. Scott?

Scott Galloway 1:07 That's all? Um... Yeah, look, I, I, I, uh, I've been thinking about this a lot, as most people have over the last, um, whatever, uh, 18 hours. Look, he... (sighs) I mean, i- this wa- uh, at the end of the day, or the begin- the beginning and the end is the following. A 31-year-old father of two was needlessly murdered, all right? That, that, that is a tragedy, full stop. Should not happen, and we should be thinking about, uh, tangible actions (laughs) to make sure it, it, it happens less. Um, Charlie Kirk, i- in my view, and we said this, uh, and just to be honest, in mi- you know, I, I won't speak for you. In my view, said a lot of divisive, hateful things.

Kara Swisher 1:55 Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Scott Galloway 1:56 At the same time, his format was really powerful and productive, and that is a lot of people on the far left and the far right go into their echo chambers in a studio somewhere behind a mic, and only listen to or respond to people who are supporting them. He went on campus, and he would have these open mic, you know, you know, uh, "Challenge me or debate me or prove me I'm wrong."

Kara Swisher 2:20 "Prove Me I'm Wrong" was his name.

Scott Galloway 2:20 Yeah, Prove Me R- And I thought that was really productive and courageous because he was subject to a lot of TikToks and videos that made him look bad, and a lot of times he would make great points and show that a lot of young people weren't being critical thinkers about their progressive views, and a lot of times young people would show up and say very intelligent things that, that, uh, counteracted in critical thinking and showed that he was wrong. That is a productive dialogue we should have on campus. Campuses are supposed to be, and this is one of the most upsetting things about A Very Upsetting Thing. University campuses are supposed to be an incredibly safe place physically, but a dangerous place intellectually, and that is-

Kara Swisher 3:05 Right. 100%.

Scott Galloway 3:05 And unfortunately this reduces both. People, I, I don't know about you. I'm rethinking (laughs) some of the campus appearances I've committed to. It-

Kara Swisher 3:14 Yep. Yep.

Scott Galloway 3:14 They are supposed to be physically safe spaces, not only for the speakers, but for the students, and, and, uh, I won't even get into, you know, some of the high school stuff, but you have to appreciate, he was a great businessman at a very young age, a father of two, and he, h- his dialogue and his format, I felt, was a productive, brave dialogue, right? It, it, this is a, this is a tragedy. Let me get to some of the second-order effects, and I wanna get your thoughts. It's just so disappointing that universities are becoming a place, because of violence in schools. They should be the safest places in the world for discourse. That's just super, super upsetting. What I find, and this is, this is where as progressives w- I feel a pressure to feel the other side. I think the reaction from the far right in this is so fucking bullshit.

Kara Swisher 4:12 I would agree.

Scott Galloway 4:12 Every person on the far left has said something along the... I don't care if it's Secretary Clinton, Vice President Har- everyone has said basically, "We condemn this violence. Our he- this is never the solution. Our hearts and prayers go out to, uh, Charlie and his family." The far right has had a very similar narrative for half of it. "Our thoughts and prayers go out to Charlie and his family, and this is the fault of the radical left."

Kara Swisher 4:42 Rough. That was-

Scott Galloway 4:42 That is, political violence only begets political violence, and Trump, our commander, our divider-in-chief, immediately goes on-

Kara Swisher 4:51 Right.

Scott Galloway 4:51 ... highlights political violence against every Republican, forgetting to mention (laughs) the violence against Speaker Amber-

Kara Swisher 4:58 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 4:58 ... Tard Pelosi's husband, against the lawmakers who were murdered in their home in Minnesota. You know, it, it, it accidentally slips past every Democrat and says, "Political violence has to stop," and then goes on to foment political violence.

Kara Swisher 5:14 Yes, I would agree. I was sort of like, "What?" I was like, "Okay, good. Yes, no political violence," and then shifting into the radical left thing immediately was shocking, especially 'cause there's... nobody knows. They haven't caught this-

Scott Galloway 5:25 They don't know what?

Kara Swisher 5:26 It's a guy apparently. What a shock, but, um, but it's, uh, you know, uh, they have, they've got the gun now. They have videos of the person who did it. Um, they believe it's a college-aged student. I don't know how they know that, um, but they must have, m- uh, videos of some sort. So, the question is why would you immediately, without any proof, say something like that at the worst... Now, I, let me give him one tiny little out. They were very close, and you could be very, very angry and very upset about this incredibly violent death-And it w- unfortunately, it was all over the internet. Um, v- extraordinarily, it was, it was an execution really, was what happened here. And, and everyone saw what happened as murder. And, ah, for him to sh-shift to that, the only thing I can give him is, okay, he was a friend, but this, you're also the president of the United States, right? That's the, that was, I, what I kept thinking is, like, "What in the world would possess you to immediately start with the vengeance?" Like, I don't know. I don't, I was sort of, like, shocked myself st- And I'm, I'm usually never shocked by Donald Trump, but this one was sort of shocking to me.

Scott Galloway 6:36 If you go online right now, onto any of these platforms, and you see the stuff that's getting 70, 80,000 likes, it's someone saying, "That's it. It's war on the fucking radical left."

Kara Swisher 6:44 Right. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 6:44 Someone who is understandably outraged and upset. I'm like, "Well, okay, do we know the radical left was responsible for this? Are you forgetting what's happened to Democrats?" And the far left wants to feel-

Kara Swisher 6:57 Yes, they are.

Scott Galloway 6:58 ... the far left wants to feel empathy and a call for taking the temperature down. I get it. The far right-

Kara Swisher 7:04 Not everybody. Let's be clear. There's some stupid people saying stupid things online a-about him. I mean, about his death.

Scott Galloway 7:10 I haven't seen any of what I'll call-

Kara Swisher 7:11 Not about him. About his death.

Scott Galloway 7:13 Oh, so you haven't seen that?

Kara Swisher 7:13 No, it's just usually, like, anonymous, like, they're cherry, the right is cherry-picking some dumb, stupid asshole would be saying...

Scott Galloway 7:21 Yeah, I haven't seen, I haven't seen any-

Kara Swisher 7:22 I'm seeing a lot of it.

Scott Galloway 7:22 ... famous person from the left-

Kara Swisher 7:24 No. No, no, no, no, no.

Scott Galloway 7:24 ... who has any credibility saying anything but, "Our hearts go out to the family."

Kara Swisher 7:28 No. 100.

Scott Galloway 7:29 "Violence is not the answer."

Kara Swisher 7:30 Yep.

Scott Galloway 7:30 "This needs to stop."

Kara Swisher 7:31 Yeah. No, you're 100%.

Scott Galloway 7:31 And then you have very famous, very famous-

Kara Swisher 7:35 Jesse Waters.

Scott Galloway 7:35 ... right-wing hosts saying, "This is it."

Kara Swisher 7:37 Steve Bannon.

Scott Galloway 7:37 "This is war, and it's the radical left."

Kara Swisher 7:40 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 7:40 "It's the fu-"

Kara Swisher 7:40 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 7:41 "I, I lay this at the feet of the radical left," and the president has said this. And that is, that just begets, um, that just creates more violence. And the problem is, (laughs) the solution is, i-i-i-is, is the following. In, a, we have two very famous ... And I, people should own their grief. I, I get upset a lot and emotional on this podcast. I like it when people are vulnerable, but I heard two very famous right-wing pundits yesterday crying over this, on air. Fine. I get it. You may have known him personally. You have the right to your own grief and emotions. We didn't seem to be as concerned with-

Kara Swisher 8:20 There were two students in Colorado yesterday.

Scott Galloway 8:21 ... with the students in Colorado, or, or the student, (laughs) the students who were shot and murdered while praying. And i-i-if we're, if the left and the right are serious about this, I mean, if they're serious, it all comes down to this. I live in the UK. In the next year, in all of the UK, there will be approximately 30 gun deaths. In the United States, in the next six hours, there will be 30 gun deaths.

Kara Swisher 8:49 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 8:49 We don't know mu- We don't know the motivation of the shooter. We don't know who he, he is. I'm just comfortable saying he, 'cause let's be honest, it's always a he. What we also know is his g-

Kara Swisher 8:58 The government is saying that, just so you know. Just, just, they're, they're, they're saying it's a man.

Scott Galloway 9:02 We, we also know that this person used a high-powered rifle, and there's too many goddamn guns. (laughs) And Charlie Kirk used to say, "You have to pay a price for certain rights." And he said, "Look, there'll be a certain number of deaths." I buy that in theory. I've, I'm comfortable with an increase in prevalence in crime with protection or, or certain search and seizure rights, that someone can't show up at my home and just say, "We suspect you." So I get the concept, but it's an, it's an issue of scale. At some point, does a f- a total fidelity to gun rights begin to come at such an unbearable cost?

Kara Swisher 9:39 Cost. Yeah, I think it does.

Scott Galloway 9:39 And this is an example of this. And I don't hear anyone saying ... Well, I, that's not true. I heard AOC say this. If we're serious about this, we can talk about-

Kara Swisher 9:47 She's focusing on gun rights, yeah.

Scott Galloway 9:48 We can talk about dialing down the rhetoric. Good luck with that. You know, Jesse Watters was already out yesterday saying, "This is war," right? Okay. That, the rhetoric, good luck with trying to get people to dial down the rhetoric, and with social media that makes hundreds of billions of dollars by enraging people with their algorithms. If we're serious, we have to reduce, we have to have sensible gun control laws.

Kara Swisher 10:09 Yeah, 100%. So just to p-update people as it's, as of this recording, and that could change, uh, the manhunt is still underway for the person, uh, who the government is identifying as the man who shot and killed 31-year-old conservative activist Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University on Wednesday. Officials, as I said, said they've recovered the gun and believe, believe was used in the shooting in the woods nearby, a high-powered bolt-action rifle. Investigators also have video, s- as we say, uh, o- of the su- as we said, of the suspect. They're trying to use facial recognition to identify the person. Uh, the FBI was pretty s-cloddish at the start. They had fired the head of the Salt Lake City office 'cause she was a Pakistani woman, apparently. Um, and they were, they were very cloddish. They said there were suspects in custody when there weren't. Um, uh, uh, Kash Patel's not really exactly seeming very sharp here. But we'll see. They'll, this, these things are very chaotic. At the same time, the government is not supposed to feel chaotic. Um, in terms of reactions, as you said, m- a lot of people did denounce the sh- the violence and, uh, linking his words to his death. He is not t-to blame for his death. Let's be clear. I'm sorry, people. I know you were angry at some things he said, but y- y- just then be angry at things he said. That's pretty much where it stops. Um, uh, although, uh, President Trump, as we said, is blaming the radicalist redoc- rhetoric, um, and others calling for war, uh, one of the first things out of the gate was Elon Musk saying, uh, "The left bel- is, is murderous," essentially. "If they won't leave us in peace, then our choice is to fight or die." That is, he is, th- that was possibly one of the worst. Steve Bannon and Jesse Watters, same thing. Um, we're not at war with them, and nor, th- this is, this is really irresponsible for high-profile people. Um, Utah's Republican Governor Spencer Cox took a different approach. Now, it's a little long, but I think it's well worth listening to, so let's listen to what he said.

Charlie Kirk 12:03 Our nation is broken.We've had political assassinations recently in Minnesota. We had an attempted assassination on the Governor of Pennsylvania. And we had an attempted assassination on a presidential candidate and former president of the United States, and now current president of the United States. N- nothing I say can unite us as a country. Nothing I c- can s- say right now can fix what is broken. Nothing I can say can bring back Charlie Kirk. Our hearts are broken. We mourn with his wife, his children, his family, his friends. We mourn as a nation. If anyone in the sound of my voice celebrated even a little bit at the news of this shooting, I would beg you to look in the mirror and to see if you can find a better angel in there somewhere. I don't care what his politics are. I care that he was an American.

Kara Swisher 13:24 I thought that was so eloquent and actually really just perfectly done. It- political speeches are so important at times like this or- or from- from leaders, political leaders, and I thought this was just exactly the right sentiment. And he was n- he was acknowledging the anger, and he was acknowledging the, um, difficulties of- of someone disagreeing with Charlie Kirk, uh, on some of the, uh, things he said. Uh, but he also would- n- was pointing out we just have to- th- we- we have to get beyond this and noted he was- uh, was a father with children, and at the same time, um, w- uh, talking about assassinations of Democrats essentially, um, and trying to equalize them. I thought it was, uh, fantastic. I don't know what n- and I- I- I wish it had gotten more attention than tr- and then it was followed by Trump which was so non- was the opposite of leadership, I thought.

Scott Galloway 14:17 Yeah, that he gave what- what felt like a presidential speech, right? Acknowledging, uh, eh- that was- uh, I think he did exactly what you would ex- eh- eh- expect, um, from a leader. So, you know, kudos to him. And again, the thing that really struck me as someone who's on campus every day, between people being, uh- uh- you know, conservative voices being shouted down on campus, between (sighs) uh, i- intimidating certain students or getting in the way of their learning, between- y- y- this is- eh- the whole point of a university is we put it outside the city center for a reason such that people could say provocative, upsetting things, and they were- they were- they were allowed to do that. And Charlie Kirk, um, I think the- m- you know, in my view, one of the m- most positive things you could say about him was he was- he was endorsing that and- and, uh, I thought what he was doing on campus, regardless of what you think of the rhetoric was actually a positive. I like those videos. And a lot of people- a lot of people felt- were obvi- you know, I think that people who are angry at him were angry that we didn't have as strong (laughs) of voices going on campus and saying- and presenting a different viewpoint. Um, he was just very good at what he did. But it- there is something, you know, The Australian, the- I think it's a newspaper or magazine kinda summarized it said that there is a real- we're having r- culturally we are really struggling, uh, in the US and it really stains our amazing accomplishments, and this is an example of that, that these places that are supposed to be places of critical thought and free speech, something like this that happens. And also, just the fact that we have normalized there are so many- uh, I'm not in any way saying this is less heinous or excusing what happened here. When you're a public figure and you are poli- you decide to go into politics, and let's say Charlie Kirk, when you decide to run for president, the bottom line is one out of three presidents in the last 50 years have been shot at. You know there are certain risks. If you're going to school, y- y- you don't have a choice. Y- you don't enter into a high-risk (laughs) these are supposed to be the safest places in the world. There's been 24 shootings on college campuses.

Kara Swisher 16:45 And school and high schools and - oh, that's just colleges. Right.

Scott Galloway 16:49 And we're talking 40,000 people a year, 121 people every day, and I've said this over and over, the- the free gift with purchase coming to the UK is I no longer have these horror fantasies around getting up in the morning and seeing my kids' high school on CNN.

Kara Swisher 17:06 No, I was- uh, you know, I was thinking like what is this idea of what a college is? I- I interviewed J- you know Jordan Klepper actually his recent documentary was about Charlie Kirk, you know, about people- how he went there, and it was- it was a really interesting discussion because in many ways, you know, he was saying it's sort of- the reason why he was successful is he actually showed up and talked to them, right? That was the thing. Um, even if they- and- a- and that's why he was able to convince them and he goes- he goes, "It was sort of no diff- a little bit different but not that much different as people that came to campus and gave out free hats and beers," right? Like, hey let's- like whatever had happened- whatever the marketing thing had to be but he really did market the ideas. Um, and he was- just before he died, he was throwing out hats, he was creating a- a situation, and I would- I would agree with you it was- I was always sort of where was a v- a- a version of this for Democrats making their case, and again let me say stuff that came out of his mouth was so upsetting to hear for- for me and many others. I think I- I kind of stopped- I started ignoring a lot of the stuff he said 'cause I knew he was doing it to get people's goat, but if you're a college student that would be, uh, I don't want to use the word trigger 'cause it's gotten so abused but ...It was, it was not nice, right? Like, if you were a gay person, the things he said, or a wo- woman, or a Black woman, or whatever. And I, I, yet, you know, there's that sort of Hyde Park Corner kind of idea of our world, where, you know, the idea ... The Hyde Park is a park in, um, uh, in London, where people can say whatever. They get on a soapbox and say whatever they want. And some of it's really just heinous. Uh, uh, I've been there, and it's really like, "What did you just say?" And I think we've lost the ability to, not not react, 'cause you should react and get angry. You should, um, push back. You should be incensed, right? I, I think all those things are kind of good for the development of minds, right?

Scott Galloway 19:04 100%. That's the whole point.

Kara Swisher 19:04 Like, what did they j- What did they just say? But it's almost like being in a bar. Like, you don't then hit someone. You don't then ... You're like, you could, you could even call ... You, you're an asshole when that happens. I mean, it happens a lot actually. And I just, I, I, I don't know what ... The problem is, and I t- I talked about this, is that, uh, I think, I do think online gets it even worse. Like, it gets into people's heads in a way that m- ... I, I don't know what would cause you to do this, to like get on, climb yourself on a roof and shoot someone. Like, in s- execution style. Like, what is the, what is the jump? And sometimes I think, you know, this, uh, you know, sort of the stew of hate speech that's available to people sits in their brain, especially online, especially as it goes viral. What is that leap from, you know, if you said something to me offensive, Scott. I'm not gonna use, uh, uh, Kirk as an example 'cause he just, I mean, he just died. But w- if you said something terrible to me, wh- why would my first thing be to get a gun and shoot you? Like what ha- Where is that moment? And I think, I think a lot of the stuff online does get people. You can see it in the notes from shooters. You can see it in the peop- the guy who shot the m- m- people in Minnesota. There's something that turns, with the constant steeping online especially, and in videos and things like that, that creates that jumping off point. I don't know what it is, but there is a moment where they say, "I think what I'll do is get a gun." "And I think what I'll do ..." And that's not a new thing. Look, we've had that happen throughout history. But i- it seems like just so much in- even easier leap than it used to be. Maybe, uh, maybe I'm wrong.

Scott Galloway 20:50 I, I think it's ... But see, I do think you can disarticulate it down to a few things. And that is, one, um ... people are spending more and more time online, and that does a couple things. One, the algorithms have connected engagement with enragement. So, if you, if you want, if you go online, it tries to figure out if you're conservative or progressive, and then take you to the extreme and start making the other side look bad, look evil, look dangerous. And so there's, there's a culture of rage dividing us, being fueled by the deepest-pocketed godlike technology with Paleolithic institutions to regulate them. So-

Kara Swisher 21:32 Mm-hmm. That's incredibly well said.

Scott Galloway 21:34 Our profit motive in the United States and 10 companies driving the entire market have a rage motive that divide us. Maybe they didn't intend to, but that is what's going on. Two, the soc- the social isolation of young men. And that is, too many young men are going into those bubbles, getting enraged, and they, because they're not going into work 'cause of remote work, because they're not getting as many economic opportunities, because they're not doing as well in school, because their prefrontal cortex doesn't develop as fast as a woman's, because they don't have as many romantic opportunities, they're not connecting with friends, they're not connecting with work, they're not connecting with romantic partners, they're isolating from their family. And when that happens, when those guardrails are no longer present, they don't have the ability to see, "Oh, I just met a, a Trumper at work, and you know what? He seems like a pretty cool guy." Uh-

Kara Swisher 22:28 Or, he enrages me, and I'm not gonna talk to him, right?

Scott Galloway 22:30 Yeah, but I learned how to deal with it, and I realize that-

Kara Swisher 22:33 Right.

Scott Galloway 22:33 Or my girlfriend, or my mother, or my father says, "What the fuck are you doing and saying? Stop that. No, that's not right." Or they start asking you questions that, that help illuminate that what you are thinking makes no sense. So, we have a, people... We have profit connected to rage. We have the soc- social isolation of young people who have no guardrails and start becoming increasingly, um, prone to irrational behavior, that if they were more social, they'd have greater guardrails. And then the kicker is we take an enraged public and young men and men who have no guardrails and are much more prone to irrational thoughts and behavior, and then we make weapons of war easily accessible.

Kara Swisher 23:24 Available to them. Yeah, it, it really is. It's, you know, there, again, there have been shooters over all of history, right? There's not, this is not ... Uh, uh, there's always someone, somewhere. But it just feels like that leap is so much smaller for so many people, right? "I think I'll take a gun." I just kept thinking, "What ... Whoever did this was like, 'I'm gonna take my gun. I'm gonna climb up on that roof. I'm gonna murder someone,' and thinking it was the right choice." You know what I mean? Like, this is your only cho- Why didn't you go down there and ask him a fucking question and yell at him? Like, you know what I mean? Like, what, th- that to me, it, it's just there's a ... I don't ... May- maybe this person's mentally ill. I don't know. Th- one of the things that we should talk about very quickly, the offshoot of this, is all these conspiracy theories around this guy's death, um, murder. I'm gonna say it's a murder. It is. Um-... uh, which is, like, they have, uh... What's incredible is they have all these videos. Everyo- it, it looks like they have videos of almost everything, um, and that's an interesting thing in law enforcement. But now there's all these conspiracy theories of there's now a video-

Scott Galloway 24:26 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 24:26 ... of two guys making hand signals looking like they're telling-

Scott Galloway 24:29 Yeah, I saw that.

Kara Swisher 24:29 ... the shooter to shoot. Then there's other people talk, saying it's a, you know, it's an intelligent ops from Russia or Israel, or this and that. And then another person arguing, "Oh, if it was that, they wouldn't be seen on the roof," which kinda makes sense. If you're really good at what you do, you don't get seen, essentially. Um, and it just, it, the, th- this conspiracy stuff is, you know, who, who's, in whose interest is it for Charlie Kirk to be dead and move away from the Epstein files, right? And you just sit there and you're like, "What?" If you were a young... I, I kept, I'm confused by all this stuff. I'm like, "Oh. Huh." And then I, you get dr- I get dragged in, and then I'm like, "No, no, stop. We don't know anything right now," right? But if you're a young person, boy is all this post-murder conspiracy theory is even worse to have to deal with. I don't, I just find it very upsetting in that regard, and I can't imagine being a young person who's, who's not quite there on judgment, uh, on any of this stuff.

Scott Galloway 25:28 Well, and we don't have... And I'm a party to this yesterday, we don't have anything resembling fact-checking or anything that's measured, so, you know, it's again, these socially isolated young people with a profit motive around spreading conspiracy theory typically, typically these types of shooters fit a t- not always, but typically, they're young men who are hoping to regain social capital with what they see as a heroic act of violence. They are, you know, isolated, feel like people don't respect them, are looking to gain back social capital and think they can get it because they've been convinced this person or this movement is truly demonic and that they would be heroic in killing this person. And, oh, by the way, Dad's got a sniper rifle (laughs) . I mean, i- i- anyways, these... I, I find the whole thing, again, I don't, I, I was, I was... It, it was strange. I don't know if you felt this way. I felt unnaturally hit in the gut by this. I just thought, "Oh, fuck, this is just so bad for everyone-"

Kara Swisher 26:33 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 26:33 "... and everything." And-

Kara Swisher 26:35 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 26:36 ... I feel bad for him, I feel bad for his family, I feel bad for the, the, the chilling on dialog this is gonna have on university campuses. I, I feel that the dialog is immediately gonna go to be politicized and blaming e- the radical left-

Kara Swisher 26:51 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 26:51 ... which happens right away.

Kara Swisher 26:51 You can see the whole road ahead, yeah.

Scott Galloway 26:53 And-

Kara Swisher 26:53 The road ahead.

Scott Galloway 26:53 Oh, I'm already seeing stuff. I'm like, uh, you know, oh, was it a trans shooter? And, I mean, you're already seeing this shit, right? And-

Kara Swisher 27:02 Was it an Ep- I'm seeing now, was it an Epstein shooter? 'Cause he backed off on the Epstein stuff. You know what I mean? Like, and you sit there and it's like, could be anybody 'cause they're all fucking crazy.

Scott Galloway 27:11 You don't know.

Kara Swisher 27:11 Like, ev- you know... Y- you know what I mean? Like, you're like, "Oh, my God." And I think the fact that we... One of the things I hate about this in a weird way is I, we have so much information and so much of it is bad, right? I have refrained from saying very much about anything online because I'm like, "I don't know. I wanna wait and see who, what, what happens here-"

Scott Galloway 27:31 Wh- where I was going with this is-

Kara Swisher 27:33 "... and then figure out what to do." Yeah.

Scott Galloway 27:33 ... and I immediately took it down and I need to be more careful, I saw this video of Marjorie Taylor Greene who has been, in my opinion, very courageous around all of the Epstein stuff. I saw this video of her coming outside of her office and putting up a picture of that, um, card, right? And putting it on her, the front of her office and then hitting her hands together. I'm like, "Wow." You know? And I, I immediately posted it and said, "You know, I have a lot of mixed emotions looking at this." And then immediately my followers are like, "Scott, it's AI."

Kara Swisher 28:05 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 28:05 I'm like, "Oh, fuck," and I immediately took it down.

Kara Swisher 28:07 Yeah. Yeah. Everyone was. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 28:07 But not before it went, but not before it went out to 1.2 million (laughs) people.

Kara Swisher 28:12 I know. I know. I know. I, that's why I di- said, uh, I posted very little except for the, that Spencer Cox. Can, can I ask you one more question-

Scott Galloway 28:20 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 28:20 ... and then we have to move on? But you said you'd nervous about a- appearing on college campuses.

Scott Galloway 28:25 I'm not.

Kara Swisher 28:26 And you said it ver- es-

Scott Galloway 28:27 (sighs)

Kara Swisher 28:27 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 28:27 I'm not, but I have someone in, very close to my life who knew I'm supposed to speak at a public university. I don't have nearly the footprint and popularity of this guy, so I don't, I don't mean to sound, I don't mean to create a false equivalence.

Kara Swisher 28:37 No, but I, uh-

Scott Galloway 28:38 But I'm supposed to speak at a university, a big public state university, and someone very close to me is like, "No, you're not going." You know?

Kara Swisher 28:45 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 28:45 Obviously this, uh, this evokes an emotional reaction and this person has said, "Well, yeah. I, I don't give a shit. You're not going." (laughs)

Kara Swisher 28:53 Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 28:54 And, and comedians who used to be the pushback here... I think a part of the anger from the left with Charlie Kirk was, quite frankly, 'cause he was just more effective. We did not have an equivalent Charlie Kirk going on campus as organized, as youthful, quite frankly as courageous. He was not afraid. He got in front of people. Sometimes he made a great point, sometimes he looked stupid. He didn't care.

Kara Swisher 29:12 Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Scott Galloway 29:13 He played a huge role in Trump's election, and I think part of the venom from the left around how pissed off they were about Charlie Kirk was, quite frankly, he was just more effective than us.

Kara Swisher 29:23 Part of it.

Scott Galloway 29:23 And-

Kara Swisher 29:23 Part of it. Some of the things he said were terrible. Go ahead.

Scott Galloway 29:25 100%. But-

Kara Swisher 29:26 He, he did it on purpose.

Scott Galloway 29:27 Well, he-

Kara Swisher 29:28 He did it on purpose.

Scott Galloway 29:28 Like a lot of people, he would say incendiary things-

Kara Swisher 29:30 Provocate.

Scott Galloway 29:30 ... to get a reaction and get more YouTube v- videos even if he, even if, I don't know, you know, maybe he believes this shit, maybe, you know, hopefully he doesn't. But anyways, the, you know, i- i- who used to be on campus doing this was comedians.

Kara Swisher 29:45 Yeah. Yes.

Scott Galloway 29:45 And now comedians won't go on campus 'cause they're like, "I don't need anyone shouting me down or waving a Palestinian"-

Kara Swisher 29:50 Right.

Scott Galloway 29:50 "... flag in my face." Or, "I, I just don't need that shit." And so-

Kara Swisher 29:55 Right.

Scott Galloway 29:55 ... we on the left, I just, I remember, I remember at UCLA when I was there everyone from Bill Murray to R.E.M. to, you know, I'm dating myself, to Carl Icahn used to show up and I, I know a lot of people who were like, "I'm not going to fucking campus. Did you hear what happened to my friend on campus?" And by the way, it happens-

Kara Swisher 30:15 Right.

Scott Galloway 30:15 ... just as much to people on the far right.

Kara Swisher 30:17 Far left, too. Far left and right.

Scott Galloway 30:19 Yeah. It happens, it happens both.

Kara Swisher 30:20 It does.

Scott Galloway 30:20 Someone's upset and they feel, on campus, emboldened to interrupt them, try and make them look stupid, or worse, right? And it's really ... I mean, we're, we're probably-

Kara Swisher 30:30 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 30:30 ... headed to an environment where we're gonna have, I would think at some point, we might have metal detectors on campus. I don't know.

Kara Swisher 30:36 I don't ... It's, it's depressing -

Scott Galloway 30:37 How would you feel if you were invited to speak at a campus right now in a large crowd, two or three thousand people-

Kara Swisher 30:42 Nervous.

Scott Galloway 30:42 ... outside in the square like that. How would you feel?

Kara Swisher 30:46 Nervous because ... Nervous. Uh, just basic areas to have disagreement that I'm, you or I might say strongly, 'cause we're, we're always, like, making jokes and saying rude things. I mean, we s- we said, um, someone had a micro-dick. I forget who it was. Um, you know, stuff like that. We're always, well, we're always saying that, but, um, I was like, "Who ... If one crazy fucking online incensed person with a gun shows up," yeah, I could see it now, and I, before I could never see it. Like, they got mad at one little thing I said. It makes me nervous. It does. It does because i- i- it's not because I think, uh, I, I don't want people to disagree with me. It's that I, I think some people have ... Something's happened to some people online and they have access to a, a gun.

Scott Galloway 31:35 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 31:35 That's ... Yeah. It's nerve-wracking.

Scott Galloway 31:38 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 31:38 Yeah. I could see it-

Scott Galloway 31:39 100%.

Kara Swisher 31:40 ... for a second. Definitely think about it. Anyway, very quickly, I, I wanna talk about the political violence the other side of the world in Nepal, which is really

Kara Swisher 31:47 sort of shocking in a lot of ways. The country's now under nationwide curfew after mass protests led by teenagers and young adults turned deadly. Uh, the unrest began after the government banned social media, but protestors also were calling out on unemployment, corruption and inequality. It was a bigger thing than just social media, but social media set it off about this sort of culture of elitism, um, and it sort of manifested itself and w- the only reason I'm talking about it is 'cause what I'm, I'm hearing from lots of sources that they're about to announce the TikTok deal. It's going, probably going to Larry Ellison and a bunch of investors. I, I noted this online, um, and one of the things, of course, was it was supposed to be banned, right? And this is supposed to be the solution to it, and I wondered what if it did get banned, would something like this happen with young people? Probably not in this country, but I don't know if you have any thoughts on what happened in Nepal. It was sort of ... Social media's what set it off. I don't think it was the root cause, but nonetheless.

Scott Galloway 32:38 I don't know that much about it other than i- typically it's young people that start revolutions because young people are more risk-aggressive and willing to go to a square and risk getting shot. And, but, (laughs) I mean, quite frank- I, I, I'm, I, I'm not trying to ... Obviously loss of life is, anywhere, is a tragedy, but I just thought, "Th- they got their Instagram." That's wh- that was the final straw. They got their Instagram taken away. It just feel, it felt like-

Kara Swisher 33:03 Right.

Scott Galloway 33:04 I would not have guessed that. I don't know anything about the Nepalese culture.

Kara Swisher 33:07 Right.

Scott Galloway 33:07 I don't ... But that's what started it.

Kara Swisher 33:08 Well, you know, the co- countries not, countries not this country use social media as everything.

Scott Galloway 33:14 Right.

Kara Swisher 33:14 Like, it's, it's TV. It's ... And so including business, right? That's the thing with business.

Scott Galloway 33:18 It's basically like shutting down the newspapers and the TV stations when they take away your social media.

Kara Swisher 33:21 Yeah. Uh, yeah. So, I, for people who don't understand it, and I think this was a hugely corrupt sort of nepo economy where these people had just about had it, and then they were like, "Now you can't say anything." And so ... And it's, it has a culture of free speech, this country. Anyway, just, just-

Scott Galloway 33:38 Yeah. But I'll bet anything-

Kara Swisher 33:39 ... interesting to watch these movies.

Scott Galloway 33:39 You, you just summarized it. I don't even know what happened and I think I know what happened and that this was the excuse, but I'll bet you anything it's a lack of economic opportunity for young people. That was the kindling-

Kara Swisher 33:48 Yep.

Scott Galloway 33:48 ... and them taking away their social media was the spark. Uh, almo-

Kara Swisher 33:53 Yeah, yeah.

Scott Galloway 33:53 If you reverse engineer almost any uprising among youth, it's that they get pissed off that there's a group of people sucking oxygen out of the room from them and that, that, "Okay, we're fed up. We don't see, we don't see a future for us to, to find a family, be treated fairly, and it's a group o- it's a group of old people who are aggregating too much information. Or, I'm sorry, too much, too much power."

Kara Swisher 34:16 Uh, you know, I often don't say this, 'cause I do think some speech is indeed hateful and damaging, um, but the solution to a lot of this is more speech and more dialogue.

Scott Galloway 34:25 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 34:25 And I think, uh, one thing that really kind of stuck in my craw was that N- MSNBC let go of Math- Matthew Dowd, who said some very factual things on the air, perhaps not good timing, um, uh, about Kirk, and he seemed to blame Kirk for his own death. I, I listened to it. I wasn't really clear if he actually said that. Um, what he was talking about was, you know, what w- we were just saying is that there's so much hate that ... He was essentially saying if you put hate out in the world, don't be surprised if you get it back.

Scott Galloway 34:56 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 34:56 Which is probably not the nicest thing to say at the moment.

Scott Galloway 34:58 He said you raise the temperature, he said you raise the temperature like on that, you might get, you might get burned, right?

Kara Swisher 35:03 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 35:03 I felt like this was ... When I saw his comments, I felt that MSNBC was essentially, um, the Democratic Party virtue signaling-

Kara Swisher 35:11 Blaming.

Scott Galloway 35:11 ... and kicking out Al Franken. I just thought, "Okay, good for us. Good for us." I, I-

Kara Swisher 35:18 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 35:18 I don't ... I mean-

Kara Swisher 35:20 I, I don't get it.

Scott Galloway 35:20 Yeah. I-

Kara Swisher 35:21 I, I didn't get that. I, I wrote that some people there, and I was like, "I'm sorry." I just, like ... Again, this is ... Uh, whatever you think about Charlie Kirk, he was about saying things, right? As provocative as you want, and I just, I don't find that particularly provocative and maybe we should be a little nicer, right, when someone dies? Ab- absolutely. But it seemed over, like, it was an overreaction in such a way-

Scott Galloway 35:46 Well, the good news is-

Kara Swisher 35:47 And I just-

Scott Galloway 35:47 ... we, we can trust that no matter what Fox says a- and-

Kara Swisher 35:50 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 35:50 ... and falsely accuses Democrats-

Kara Swisher 35:51 Oh.

Scott Galloway 35:52 ... of being responsible, they will not get fired.

Kara Swisher 35:53 Yeah. I know that. I was like, Jesse Water- you looked over at Jesse Waters-

Scott Galloway 35:58 Yeah, yeah. I don't-

Kara Swisher 35:58 ... like what in the f- It's like, "We're at war." I'm like, "I'm not at war with you, Jesse Waters. What in the hell?"

Scott Galloway 36:03 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 36:03 Like, what is he talking about?

Scott Galloway 36:05 I didn't get it.

Kara Swisher 36:05 And I know Bannon's just doing it to be Bannon.

Scott Galloway 36:06 When I first saw this clip I thought there must be another clip for why he got fired. I, I think that was, I think that was-

Kara Swisher 36:10 Right.

Scott Galloway 36:10 ... a bullshit move, and I loved the-

Kara Swisher 36:12 I would agree.

Scott Galloway 36:12 I love the leadership over at MSNBC. I think they got this wrong.

Kara Swisher 36:16 Yeah. Me too. Anyway, uh, uh, I actually told them this too. Anyway, uh, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Larry Ellison becomes the richest person in the world as Oracle stock soars.

Scott Galloway 36:27 Support for this show comes from Upwork. Hiring shouldn't be a hassle, nor should it be a drain on your budget. That's why there's Upwork. Upwork is your one-stop shop to find, hire, and pay top freelance talent, saving you time and keeping costs in check, all in one place. Companies at every stage turn to Upwork to get things done and find more flexibility. You can staff key projects and initiatives by accessing a global marketplace filled with top talent in IT, web development, AI design, admin support, marketing, and more. Posting a job on Upwork is super simple, and there's no cost to join. You can browse freelancer profiles, get help drafting a job post, or even book a consultation. From there, you connect with freelancers that get you, and you can hire them to help you move your work forward. Upwork makes the entire process easier and more affordable with industry-low fees. Post a job today and hire tomorrow with Upwork. Visit upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That's upwork.com to post your job for free and connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's U-P-W-O-R-K dot com. Upwork.com.

Kara Swisher 37:32 Scott, we're back. Oracle founder Larry Ellison briefly became the world's richest person this week, edging out Elon Musk.

Kara Swisher 37:37 His net worth climbed t- to, uh, 393 billion dollars Wednesday after Oracle shares skyrocketed on a blockbuster earnings report, up 42% at one point. Oracle said it won several billion-dollar contracts in the latest quarter, quadrupling bookings from a year before. The company also is forecasting that revenue from its AI-powered cloud business will jump from 18 billion to 144 billion by 2030. On top of all that, OpenAI just signed a deal to purchase $300 billion in computing power from Oracle. And again, I am understanding he's gonna get control of TikTok or somehow be the lead, uh, person in that, and he's obviously very close to President Trump. And they had been involved with TikTok before, let me be fair. Um, they were part of when they're- th- the last time they were trying to figure out what to do about TikTok. Who knows? We'll, we'll talk about that when it happens. Um, but, you know, this is sort of Nvidia too. I, I don't know. This is... Oracle is now a major AI player. Um, what do you, what do you think about this?

Scott Galloway 38:32 Uh, uh, I think Ellison is a visionary, and he doubled down. I think he figured out that, okay, there should be one... The most valuable company in the world, Nvidia, uh, it would be okay to be the, the second-biggest infrastructure company centered around AI. And he made a massive investment, and it's paying off like crazy. Their cloud revenue is projected to increase 77% to 18 billion. Um, they expect their cloud revenue... It was their projections that got the market excited. They project that their cloud revenue will hit 144 billion by 2030. That's a 14-fold increase versus the 10 billion it brought in last year. It said, credibly, the CEO said, "We're gonna increase our cloud revenue 14X in the next four years." Now, what's interesting here is, a great deal of that comes from a deal with OpenAI, who will purchase $300 billion computing over five years. So get this. Essentially, OpenAI has said, "We're going to pay Oracle $60 billion a year for compute," despite the fact we are currently, OpenAI, only making 10 billion a year. They are so confident in their growth that they've just committed to spend $60 billion a year on compute-

Kara Swisher 39:45 Yeah, I noticed that.

Scott Galloway 39:46 ... despite only currently (laughs) making 10 billion. So, he became the richest person in the world for a brief moment. Biggest one-day gain in history, 36%. He owns approximately 40% of Oracle. And i- i- a- a- and this is a good bridge to, to Apple. What he has done is... Larry's gangster move was Oracle was becoming a mature company, very profitable, and they were buying back shares. When the company went public, he owned 34%. Now he owns over 40% because they've used that excess cash flow to buy back shares. Until two years ago when he said, "Uh-uh, the future's in AI. It's an arms race."

Kara Swisher 40:24 Yep.

Scott Galloway 40:25 "I'm going to massively invest in AI." Who did not do that, Kara? Trivia question.

Kara Swisher 40:32 Apple.

Scott Galloway 40:32 100%. Correct for 20.

Kara Swisher 40:35 Okay.

Scott Galloway 40:35 One guy said-

Kara Swisher 40:37 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 40:37 ... "It's time to put back on our growth pants, so to speak, and start massively investing in AI." And this was the gangster strategic move arguably of the last five years, was an old company-

Kara Swisher 40:50 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 40:50 ... saying, "Fuck it."

Kara Swisher 40:51 And an old guy. (laughs) And an old guy-

Scott Galloway 40:53 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 40:53 ... and an old company.

Scott Galloway 40:54 "We need to start dancing again. You may have gotten used to our dividend, you may have gotten used to our share buybacks. Uh-uh. I'm going large because there's no number two to Nvidia, but there's gonna be." And now squarely-

Kara Swisher 41:06 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 41:06 ... Oracle is, has basically put their elbows out and crashed the party and said, "Oh, no. You may think we're old and dodgy or whatever. W- we're not. We're hip. We... Elephants can dance." And now, you know... Uh, uh, I mean, this was an incredibly smart deft move of Larry Ellison.

Kara Swisher 41:24 I would never count him out. And also his CEO, Safra Catz, um, she is really also very sharp. I mean, I think it's really interesting. I think, of course, they did also see the writing on the wall with the Trump administration backing AI. You know, they've been very aggressive at showing up at these AI events. A- and you remember he showed up at that event with Sam Altman, with the president, that pissed off Elon Musk and everything else. And at the same time, he, he put a big investment into Twitter, and probably he's about to double-cross Elon by owning TikTok, right? Or, or at least controlling TikTok. So, this guy just whatever it takes... And of course, his son, he, he funded the- his son's purchase of Paramount. And so, this guy is just very vibrant for an, for an elderly man, I'll say.

Scott Galloway 42:09 Okay, well, just in the price increase from yesterday, I mean, 36%. Wha- what is that? Um... I don't know what they're increase. I- I'm pretty sure they could buy 30 or 40 Paramounts with just the increase in Ellison's net worth yesterday. I mean, he said to his son, "Go play in traffic. Here's five or seven billion dollars. I've just increased my r- you know, I've just increased my net worth by..."... a hundred billion, right? So yeah, go, go have fun with Paramount. I mean, the numbers here are so staggering, it, it's, uh, I mean, let's do the ba- math. He's worth about $400 billion. He, he, uh, the stock was up 36%, so went up a third, so he made $130 billion yesterday.

Kara Swisher 42:54 I know.

Scott Galloway 42:55 What did they buy Paramount for? Five or seven?

Kara Swisher 42:58 Yeah, something around that.

Scott Galloway 42:58 Yeah, so they could go buy 20 Paramounts with his increa- his son... He could... If he has 20 kids out there, which is, uh, a possibility given what I know about Larry Ellison-

Kara Swisher 43:06 Yeah, give me a smoothie studio.

Scott Galloway 43:06 ... he could say to all of them, "Go buy your own Paramount-"

Kara Swisher 43:08 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 43:08 "... with the gains from yesterday."

Kara Swisher 43:09 I think it'll actually increase the chances. And I know you think it's small ball on Paramount. I know you do, and I think you're right. Um, uh, but, uh, I think that it'll get... increase the chance they might buy Warner. They might, you know-

Scott Galloway 43:20 Oh, sure.

Kara Swisher 43:20 ... they might do something to, to, as you say, consolidate and milk, um, and maybe j- maybe have some growth somewhere along the lines. It gives them the, the heft to do so. Yeah, you're gonna see some, I think, very aggressive moves from Paramount. Um, so, uh, you know, we'll see. Larry Ellison, well done, Larry Ellison.

Scott Galloway 43:39 There you go.

Kara Swisher 43:40 Well done. He's a... I had the mo- the strangest evening with him once by myself. I-

Scott Galloway 43:43 Do you... I don't know him at all. Have you had any interface with him?

Kara Swisher 43:45 I know... Oh, yeah, I've interviewed him many times. We had him at Code several times, actually. He-

Scott Galloway 43:49 What's he like? I have no sense of him.

Kara Swisher 43:50 Oh, he's very funny. He's, uh, I mean, sometimes he's awful, sometimes he's funny. He's, um... I have always... I hate to say I enjoy spending time with him, but I do. I have to say, he's really interesting, um, because some of his views are not my views at all. Again, someone I don't agree with, who I really enjoy talking to because he's so smart. Um, and people will fry me for that, but I don't care. Um, he, he, he... I interviewed him once at, uh, once... several times at, at Code and All Things D. One was just about his business, um, and it was interesting. And then when Steve Jobs died, he... we talked about Steve. He was very close friends. He was his best friend, I would say. Um, and Steve... One, one time I said to Steve Jobs, "Larry Ellison's your best friend?" He's like, "Yeah, I know, it's so weird." Like, you know, they were very different in their political outlook, etc., and were very close friends. They had a very similar upbringing.

Scott Galloway 44:43 I know why you like him. You relate to him.

Kara Swisher 44:44 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 44:44 He's 81 and he married a 33-year-old.

Kara Swisher 44:47 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 44:47 I get it. You guys have double-dated.

Kara Swisher 44:48 He married a lot of people.

Scott Galloway 44:50 You guys have double-dated.

Kara Swisher 44:50 He's married a lot of people. I know. Um, I'll tell two very quick stories about Larry Ellison. So, so he was on stage, and then we s- when he was doing the sailing thing, I met him over near where his sailing stuff was in the regatta in the s- San Francisco Bay. And we spent the evening just... He was talking about his kids, which was really interesting. David and, uh, his daughter Megan. Um, and, you know, he was like, "They're really actually pretty okay, and it's nothing to do with me. It's with the mothers." And it was, it was super, super interesting. And I'll tell the f- All right, I'll tell... I'm gonna tell one more Larry Ellison story. So, he had this house in San Francisco that he threw a party at for something or other. And I went, because it was one of these stunning San Francisco Pacific Heights houses. And he didn't live in it, I don't think. I think he just had it for parties. And, um, and I like looking at houses. I'm a... Like, I like seeing what they look like. And so whenever I go to a party, I wander around and look at things. Like, I shouldn't d- I... do that. I do that at your apartment, sure.

Scott Galloway 45:42 Yeah, you do that a lot.

Kara Swisher 45:43 Um, I do that a lot. And so I was (laughs) , I was wandering, um, wandering around. And he has, I think he has Israeli security. I think that's what he has. He's very... He's a big, uh, supporter of Benjam- Ben... I think Benjamin Netanyahu and, and Israel. And, um, and they caught me, uh, upstairs. (laughs) They caught me upstairs. And, and they bring me downstairs to him. And, and he looked at me, he goes, "Ugh, I knew it would be you." (laughs) You know what I mean? Like, he was wandering around. And he goes, "What were you doing?" And I said, "I was looking for the, the, uh, the, the, the hooker and stripper room." I just said a joke like that. And he goes, "Oh, that's in the basement, Kara." And it was like (laughs) ... It was... I just think he's funny. He's funny. He's a funny guy.

Scott Galloway 46:24 Well-

Kara Swisher 46:24 He's also awful.

Scott Galloway 46:24 ... he's definitely, I, uh, I mean-

Kara Swisher 46:27 Rich.

Scott Galloway 46:28 Well, not only that, he became the richest man in the world. He's like... Who, who thought that? Like, who saw that coming?

Kara Swisher 46:32 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 46:33 Anyways.

Kara Swisher 46:33 Yeah, he also spends the money. You know, he had that hou- he had that house that looks... He imported it from Japan.

Scott Galloway 46:38 Well, why wouldn't he?

Kara Swisher 46:38 He's got... Yeah. He's g- He's, he's a very stylish billionaire. He was always the original billionaire.

Scott Galloway 46:43 Well, you know why he spent so-

Kara Swisher 46:44 Anyway.

Scott Galloway 46:44 We- You know why he spent that kind of money and married a 33-year-old?

Kara Swisher 46:48 Yeah. All right, why?

Scott Galloway 46:49 Be- because he can.

Kara Swisher 46:51 Ah, ha ha. Anyway, um, anyhow, uh, we'll see what happens. We'll watch for that TikTok thing. Uh, also, o- obviously we just talked about

Kara Swisher 46:58 Apple. It rolled out its newest iPhones this week, including the iPhone Air, which Tim Cook is calling a game changer. I do not agree with this. It's the thinnest phone ever, about a third slimmer than current models, though there are trade-offs in battery life. Um, Apple also unveiled a new watch model as well as AirPods that can translate foreign languages. That was pretty cool. Meanwhile, AI barely came up at the event, a big shift from last year when Apple Intelligence took center stage. Let me say, this iPhone with the bump on the back, I saw it... I ran into Eddy Cue at this morning show event, and he showed it to me, and I was like, "It has a bump on the back." It's a big bump. It wobbles. Like, it's skinny, but then it has this big bump. Um, which I'm ma- people are making, um... they're making a, uh, uh... People are talking about it online a lot. It's also... Uh, it doesn't... I, I don't want to buy it, I have to say. I don't know why. Maybe I'll buy the 17, but the skinny one is not attractive because it has the bump. I don't, I don't know what to say. Anyway, um, do you think it's a game changer from what you saw?

Scott Galloway 47:55 I'm just sitting here thinking, am I allowed to be crude the day after a murder?

Kara Swisher 48:00 Yes, go ahead.

Scott Galloway 48:00 Whatever. I mean, uh, okay, the announcement, uh, what Cook called a game changer, I would call a hand job and an Advil. I'm just like, "Eh, all right."

Kara Swisher 48:09 Okay.

Scott Galloway 48:09 I don't-

Kara Swisher 48:10 That's good. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 48:11 Fine. I, I...

Kara Swisher 48:13 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 48:13 Was anyone begging for a thinner phone? I don't-

Kara Swisher 48:16 If it was without... If it was a thinner phone with, with capabilities and without the bump, sure, why not?

Scott Galloway 48:22 The most exciting thing-

Kara Swisher 48:23 Kind of.

Scott Galloway 48:23 ... and it's available on other platforms, is real-time language translation for the AirPods. I think the AirPods are the most-

Kara Swisher 48:29 Yeah, that was cool.

Scott Galloway 48:29 ... underrated tech product of the last 10 years.

Kara Swisher 48:32 That was cool.

Scott Galloway 48:32 I think, essentially, they're not even a tech product. They're the most ubiquitous, expensive, high-margin piece of jewelry in history. People are now roaming around full time with a pair of earrings called an AirPods that cost $300 and probably $110.

Kara Swisher 48:43 I ordered them last night.

Scott Galloway 48:45 Yeah, I just leave them in now. I, uh, they're just everywhere.

Kara Swisher 48:48 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 48:48 The... What this signals though, and where they will get scrutiny, per our most recent conversation, is that over the last decade... Essentially, Jobs is... Jobs was a builder. He did not believe in share buybacks. He wanted to ma- amass a huge cash hoard and then such that they were durable and enduring, and if they wanted to, they could take big swings, either acquisitions or go very deep after a certain product development. Tim Cook is an operator. And by the way, you got to give it to Tim Cook. He's taken the company from 300 billion to three trillion.

Kara Swisher 49:18 Yeah, he has.

Scott Galloway 49:18 The question is, have those $700 or $800 billion in share buybacks to date... They have bought back approximately 40% of their outstanding shares, meaning over a 25-year period, they're effectively taking the company private. The question is, when you have these meh product announcements, have they gotten to a point where they, quite frankly, should be a little bit more aggressive, a little bit more promiscuous, and be spending some of that unbelievable cash generation and taking more big swings? 'Cause yesterday, there were no big swings. There was nothing that compelling-

Kara Swisher 49:50 Yeah, I agree.

Scott Galloway 49:50 ... and this is the difference. It's easy to play Monday morning quarterback, but let's do it. The difference between what Ellison did, was a couple of years ago he said, "Oh my God, AI is a once-in-a-lifetime generational tech innovation. I am shifting from being a share buyback company to, uh, an R&D company, and I'm going to take a massive swing here." And he became... And the stock was up 30- 38% yesterday. Apple has basically said, "We are a mature company." And the problem with Apple being a mature company is that its stock right now does not trade as if it's a mature company. It trades as if it's a growth company at a PE of 33. So where there will be a lot of second-guessing, as I'm doing now, is Tim Cook, quite frankly, not keeping up with his peers, because he's decided, "We're going to go into kind of a rest home. We're going to continue..." Icahn started this by putting pressure on them for share buybacks and a dividend.

Kara Swisher 50:44 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 50:44 They did both. And unfortunately-

Kara Swisher 50:46 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 50:46 ... they aren't taking the big swings they used to under the Jobs tenure.

Kara Swisher 50:50 Yeah, this phone, I'm like, "No." Like, "No." I mean, I'll wait for the fold phone. I'm interested in the fold phone, that's for sure. Um, that kind of becomes an iPad. I- I'm going to look at that, but it's going to be heavy. Like, I just don't see a compelling need to change my phone, eh, with these things. And I like changing phones, by the way. Uh, we'll see where it goes. One of the funnier ones was people made, uh, social media was also joking about eye knee pads for Tim Cook, referring to last week's events.

Scott Galloway 51:16 Well, here's a stat. Over the last decade, Apple has spent $500 billion more on R&D... I'm sorry, $500 billion more on share buybacks than on R&D.

Kara Swisher 51:28 That's crazy.

Scott Galloway 51:28 And what do you know?

Kara Swisher 51:29 That's crazy. Yep.

Scott Galloway 51:30 Their products, their products are feeling kind of meh.

Kara Swisher 51:34 Meh. I have to say, one... Some people think the bump on the ph- iPhone is presaging some glasses, some sort of glasses thing that's happening next. So it's sort of a signal. What's in there apparently would work quite, uh, elegantly apparently with glasses, but we'll see. We'll see. Let's see, let's see some products that really wow us, Tim. I have to say, this didn't. Um, next up, uh, uh, let's talk about very quickly

Kara Swisher 51:56 President Trump's contributions to Jeffrey Epstein's 50th birthday book. Obviously the murder of, uh, Charlie Cook has sort of pushed that off, but it was getting a lot of attention. As previously reported, there was a letter from Trump to Epstein feeb- featuring a cryptic conversation within a hand-drawn woman's body. I would say a, a teenage girl's body is what it looked like. There was also a photo of an oversized check appearing to be signed by DJ Trump with a note s- uh, Epstein saying, "Showed early talents with money and women," and had sold a fully dis- depreciated w- woman to Trump for $22,000. Um, President Trump is calling it a dead issue when asked. Um, uh, you know, I think probably this Charlie Kirk situation is going to push it out of the headlines, but at the same time, I still think this Epstein thing has staying power. Um, they're really... Uh, Thomas Massey looks like he has the numbers to, uh, force, uh, force a release. And in fact, Kirk, before he sort of went backwards a little bit had said, "There should be a..." I- I was watching a speech where he said it should be full and... Full release of... Unredacted release, uh, to the public. Um, so I don't know what you thought. I thought it just... Trump pretended he didn't draw, and then they showed him drawings. He pre- he said this birthday book didn't exist. It exists. He said he didn't write a letter. It looks like he wrote a letter. Um, I think the idea that it's fake is kind of ridiculous. Ba- Way back then, someone knew he was going to be president and decided to do a fake thing? This seems ridiculous. Um, I think he did it, and he should just say he was sorry, and he won't do that. Um, and they're doubling down on hoax and whatever. I still think it's very damaging to him. This s- remains damaging. What did you think?

Scott Galloway 53:31 Well, the question is, is there a red line? Like, we knew he was a rich kid. Okay, that's a reason not to like him. We knew he was not a very good businessman. We knew he took companies bankrupt. We knew he didn't pay subcontractors. Um, we knew that he was accused of sexual assault. We know he's an insurrectionist. I mean, is... And now there seems to be evidence everywhere that he was at a, at a minimum cohorting with a known and convicted pedophile. And the notion that this is a forgery is like, well, okay, you mean somebody 21 years ago broke into the Epstein estate and decided to frame the president, who at that time was a Democrat, thinking when he's president, this will embarrass him? I mean, it's just like the logic-

Kara Swisher 54:15 Unbelievable.

Scott Galloway 54:15 The math ain't mathing here. And-

Kara Swisher 54:18 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 54:18 (laughs) ... I liked what, um, Representative Moskowitz I s- I think said in the, uh, one of the congressional hearings, said-

Kara Swisher 54:25 Jared Moskowitz.

Scott Galloway 54:26 "Why don't..." You guys, this is outrageous. Why don't we... Why d- Let's move to bring in, um, forgery experts and have them opine on this." I mean, the whole thing is just sort of like, at what point are we gonna fin- find out the guy is literally the Dark Lord. I mean, what gets... Look at the things... (laughs) Every time he's suspected-

Kara Swisher 54:43 I know.

Scott Galloway 54:43 ... of something, uh, we find out it's true.

Kara Swisher 54:46 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 54:46 And it doesn't seem to matter. The question is, is this...... is this the, you know, is this the red line? And I am convinced that, I'm going on The Times of London Radio tonight, I'm convinced the only reason he's supposed to come to the UK, uh, I typed into AI last night-

Kara Swisher 55:04 Stay in the camp.

Scott Galloway 55:04 ... name, if I were a president trying to keep Epstein out of the news, please name actions and policies that would push Epstein out of the news cycle every 48 hours. And it gave me a playbook for everything he's doing. Some of which he's already done, some of which he, I think he's try- he's going to do. But he's coming over here to talk about free speech, and which I think is ridiculous. But anything that pushes, um, Epstein out of the news cycle is what he's doing. But I, I don't know. I don't have a, I think this is... It feels like this is the one thing that is sticking to the guy.

Kara Swisher 55:37 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 55:38 Um-

Kara Swisher 55:38 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 55:39 But...

Kara Swisher 55:39 'Cause it's, 'cause he was a friend of his. Like, I don't, what I don't get... Now look, I have no idea what happened. I don't have any idea if he's guilty of anything. But why not just say, "Ugh, I was so, it was such bad judgment. I'm so sorry."

Scott Galloway 55:52 Profane, stupid, locker room talk.

Kara Swisher 55:54 "Ugh, gross, that was dumb. I," locker room talk, yeah, that worked last time. "And I shouldn't have written this, and it was before anybody really knew, and I didn't know, I wasn't paying attention." And, and, and just say, "Ugh, I'm so sorry, that was so dumb." Like I, that's what Gates did, that's what like, everyone who's been there had, Clinton said it. Um, and it doesn't s- I mean, it sort of sticks to them, but not like this. This is, and I know he's president, but just the drawing was so like, I absolutely think he threw that, (laughs) like I looked at it and I was like, "Yes." This sounds-

Scott Galloway 56:26 The, the creepiest thing about, the cr- I, I don't know how... When I first saw it, everything about it supposedly being pubic hair, supposed to be a, a, a, an underage girl.

Kara Swisher 56:36 No.

Scott Galloway 56:36 I didn't even get it. I looked at it, I'm like... And the thing, the creepiest thing about it is, he clearly hired creatives, he organized resources...

Kara Swisher 56:46 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 56:46 ... to put this thing together. It wasn't like...

Kara Swisher 56:48 Yeah. Yeah. Same thing.

Scott Galloway 56:48 ... a stupid note between friends where you, you... an error in judgment.

Kara Swisher 56:53 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 56:53 He gathered creative professionals around and said...

Kara Swisher 56:56 Then you have psychics and...

Scott Galloway 56:56 "This is what I want."

Kara Swisher 56:58 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 56:58 "This is what I'm thinking."

Kara Swisher 56:59 Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 56:59 And then they came back with a subtle image of a pre-pubescent girl, "And your signature will be pubic hairs." And he went, "Bingo!"

Kara Swisher 57:11 (laughs) Yes.

Scott Galloway 57:12 "That's exactly what I'm trying to get across."

Kara Swisher 57:14 Oh, you know, that is the...

Scott Galloway 57:15 "Now, now laminate it, frame it. Wait, what about this? What kind of paper should we use?" You could tell that there was real thought that went into this.

Kara Swisher 57:24 (laughs) Thought into it, I agree.

Scott Galloway 57:26 And that's the creepiest thing.

Kara Swisher 57:27 Scott sent me a similar thing for my birthday, everybody, just so you know. (laughs) No, I'm kidding.

Scott Galloway 57:32 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 57:32 I agree. Anyway, it's gonna stick to you, Donald Trump. No matter what happens, you're, it's gonna be on your, it's, it's, it's gonna be on your record no matter what you do.

Scott Galloway 57:40 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 57:40 All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Kamala Harris' sizzling upcoming book, which is sort of getting lost here with all the news.

Scott Galloway 57:49 Support for the show comes from Hims. When it comes to your money, your goals and your future, it's important to have options, the freedom to choose. But when it comes to your healthcare, it too often feels overly prescriptive. One-size-fits-all treatments, preset dosages, zero flexibility. It's like trying to budget a fixed expense with no alternatives. But now there's another way, with Hims and Hers. Hims and Hers is re-imagining healthcare with you in mind. They offer access to personalized care for weight loss, hair loss, sexual health and mental health, because your goals, your biology and your lifestyle are anything but average. No membership fees, no surprise fees, just transparent pricing and real care that you can access from anywhere. Feel like your best self thanks to quality, convenient care through Hims and Hers. Start your free online visit today at hims.com/pivot, that's H-I-M-S .com/pivot, to find your personalized treatment options. Not available everywhere. Prescription products require provider consultations. See website for full details, important safety information and restrictions.

Kara Swisher 58:49 Scott, we're back with more news.

Kara Swisher 58:51 An excerpt from former Vice President Kamala Harris' upcoming book, 107 Days, was published in The Atlantic, and it is spicy. In it, Harris says recklessness allowed President Biden to make the decision, uh, to run again. She also said the decision should not have been left to an individual's ego. The former vice president also said the president's staff fueled negative stories about her performance and often refused to defend her. That is true. I saw that in real time, you know. Um, uh, what do you think? I mean, I'm gonna interview her, just so you know, uh, at, at a live event in Washington in a coup- uh, two weeks, I think. Um, I'm excited to talk to her. This book was also written with the help of s- a very good author who's also a friend of mine, Geraldine Brooks, who is also a Pulitzer Prize winner and everything else. Uh, she's sort of going the Agassi route by hiring a really great writer. Um, so thoughts? Uh, she really went there. I did not think she would, but there she did.

Scott Galloway 59:45 Well, okay. Thanks, Captain Obvious.

Kara Swisher 59:47 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 59:47 I, I, I feel the same way about Vice President Harris as I feel about all these Republicans who grow testicles...

Kara Swisher 59:53 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 59:53 ... after they leave office.

Kara Swisher 59:54 Yeah. That's a fair point.

Scott Galloway 59:54 We don't need you to decide it's reckless now. Had you sh- demonstrated the leadership capabilities we hope from a president, you should have walked in and said, "I don't think you should run again, and I'm not gonna support you to run again. Maybe you don't anoint me, fine, but I have an obligation duty to the pres- a duty to the country, and you should not be president. This is fucking ridiculous." And she saw up close and personal, but instead, like a lot of people around him, she decided to whistle, you know, whistle past the graveyard. Uh, and quite frankly...

Kara Swisher 1:00:24 She does talk about it in the thing. She, it's like, I think there is, when you're in those situations, everyone's like, "Well, it's up to Jill and Joe," right? You know what I mean? Like, even if it... Same thing with Trump if there's something, and no one will do anything. Like, those, those environments create overly cautious, very reticent people saying, "It's up to him." Like, even, you know, Newsom did it. They all did it. Newsom also did it. So did like all the Democratic...... everyone did.

Scott Galloway 1:00:54 Also, uh, someone who probably deserves, uh, s- uh, more credit than they deserve was, uh, Representative Dean Phillips, who very early said, um, "I'm running because I don't think President Biden is fit to run again." And he got pretty swiftly pilloried and swept away. He didn't get a lot of traction, but he does deserve some credit for coming out early. I'd like to roll with that dude. Representative Phillips, coll-

Kara Swisher 1:01:17 You met him.

Scott Galloway 1:01:18 I did meet him. He came on-

Kara Swisher 1:01:18 We met him at the DNC. He came over to us.

Scott Galloway 1:01:20 He came on my pod and came over. Actually, he seemed like a nice man.

Kara Swisher 1:01:22 He also-

Scott Galloway 1:01:23 Seemed like a good man.

Kara Swisher 1:01:24 ... I think he came over to us.

Scott Galloway 1:01:25 Look, if two podcasters can say-

Kara Swisher 1:01:29 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:01:29 ... a year and a half before, "He's too fucking old."

Kara Swisher 1:01:31 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:01:32 The vice president and the-

Kara Swisher 1:01:33 I get it.

Scott Galloway 1:01:33 ... people around him should have enough fidelity to the White House or Democratic ideals-

Kara Swisher 1:01:36 Correct.

Scott Galloway 1:01:36 ... to realize Popop, it's time for Popop to, to get a gold watch-

Kara Swisher 1:01:41 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:01:41 ... and retire. This is-

Kara Swisher 1:01:43 I know.

Scott Galloway 1:01:43 I mean-

Kara Swisher 1:01:44 I know, but you-

Scott Galloway 1:01:45 And, and not only that, ev-

Kara Swisher 1:01:46 ... you can imagine that environment, though.

Scott Galloway 1:01:47 ... everyone engaged in it. You remember the emails we were getting?

Kara Swisher 1:01:50 Yep.

Scott Galloway 1:01:50 "Sign up."

Kara Swisher 1:01:51 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:01:51 "You don't understand the assignment." Uh, I was like, "Oh my goodness."

Kara Swisher 1:01:54 Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:01:54 You don't think, you don't think the world sees this?

Kara Swisher 1:01:57 Well, we need to stop Trump. I'm like, "Not like this. This isn't gonna stop Trump. He's gonna fall over dead and then we're fucked." You know what I mean? Like...

Scott Galloway 1:02:04 Yeah, I don't-

Kara Swisher 1:02:05 I agree.

Scott Galloway 1:02:05 Uh, uh, look, I don't, uh, the, uh, I, I think the vice president, I've said this before, I, I think the vice president, given ele- uh, UK-style election format in a U- an American environment, uh, she was short-changed. And, uh, President Biden, Supreme Court Justice, or Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Senator Feinstein have stained their legacy because they let their narcissism outweigh what was right for the country, full stop. And, and for her also, um, quite frankly, you don't, you can't blame an 80-year-old, because he's 80, and his family, which can't see clearly, 'cause that's their dad and their husband. But the people around him, uh, Secretary Blinken, Vice President Harris-

Kara Swisher 1:02:50 All of them.

Scott Galloway 1:02:50 ... they all should've sat him down.

Kara Swisher 1:02:52 All of them, the entire Democratic establishment supported him.

Scott Galloway 1:02:54 And finally, to his credit, I think it was Senator Schumer and Speaker Emerita Pelosi, he-

Kara Swisher 1:02:59 Pelosi, I think it was Pelosi.

Scott Galloway 1:02:59 ... by the way, he did an exit voluntarily.

Kara Swisher 1:03:01 He's not talking to Pelosi.

Scott Galloway 1:03:03 Because-

Kara Swisher 1:03:03 But I think it was Pelosi who did it.

Scott Galloway 1:03:04 Because she went in there and said, "I'm really sorry. We're both old. We both need to go home, and if you don't announce you're getting out of the race, every three days I'm gonna have someone, a Democrat, announce they're not supporting you."

Kara Swisher 1:03:15 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:03:15 He didn't wanna leave.

Kara Swisher 1:03:16 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:03:16 This was not his decision.

Kara Swisher 1:03:18 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:03:18 Supposedly he's going through all this rumination and contemplation, but all this rumination and contemplation isn't about how badly he fucked the country. It's about, it's about, "Could I have won if I'd stayed in?" The narcissism here of these folks... And again, it goes back to what we were talking about before with the shooter. People need guardrails. And what I mean by guardrails-

Kara Swisher 1:03:36 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:03:36 ... is people who have the balls and the credibility to sit in front of you and go, "No, you're wrong. You have to stop this. You have to stop this."

Kara Swisher 1:03:43 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:03:43 "You're not thinking."

Kara Swisher 1:03:45 Right.

Scott Galloway 1:03:45 "You're not thinking clearly."

Kara Swisher 1:03:47 Yeah, yeah. I have no doubt at, that, that none of them did that. None of, none of, including her. And so what should I ask her? Give me a question for her.

Scott Galloway 1:03:54 In 10 years, would you have... If someone could say to you in 10 years, you can be a Supreme Court justice or be drafted to run for president again, doors one or two, what would you rather do?

Kara Swisher 1:04:04 Oh, good one. I like that. That's a good one. Yeah, anyway-

Scott Galloway 1:04:07 And also-

Kara Swisher 1:04:07 ... I like that, that she's-

Scott Galloway 1:04:08 ... quite frankly-

Kara Swisher 1:04:08 G- Go ahead.

Scott Galloway 1:04:08 ... did you really let down the country by not have, show... Oh, oh, God, I-

Kara Swisher 1:04:12 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:04:13 I'll, I'll be there in your ear like a producer-

Kara Swisher 1:04:15 (laughs) But you should see her.

Scott Galloway 1:04:15 ... with Anderson Cooper.

Kara Swisher 1:04:16 (laughs) Yeah, you'd also never ask her. I'm, I have the guts to ask her. (laughs) You'd be like, "Oh, okay." (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:04:20 Oh, no, you're much nicer in person than me. You're much nicer-

Kara Swisher 1:04:23 Am I?

Scott Galloway 1:04:23 ... in person than me.

Kara Swisher 1:04:24 No, but I, onstage I'll ask her. You know I'll ask her.

Scott Galloway 1:04:26 Well, you can get away with it.

Kara Swisher 1:04:27 I'll, I'll ask her the hard-

Scott Galloway 1:04:27 Everyone's like, "Oh, that's her. There goes that Kara."

Kara Swisher 1:04:30 "There goes that Kara."

Scott Galloway 1:04:30 "There goes that Kara."

Kara Swisher 1:04:31 She's-

Scott Galloway 1:04:31 Ugh.

Kara Swisher 1:04:32 ... sassy Kara.

Scott Galloway 1:04:33 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 1:04:33 Uh! Uh! Once again.

Scott Galloway 1:04:35 Once again.

Kara Swisher 1:04:35 And isn't she charming? Um, but, uh, yeah. I think it's, I think the whole establishment did it. But I do like that she wrote it anyway. I'm kind of like, "Good, just tell us what happened and then we don't do it again." Um, uh, all right, she, she didn't have to do this and she did it, so-

Scott Galloway 1:04:50 They all wanna write books.

Kara Swisher 1:04:51 ... we'll see if she's running again.

Scott Galloway 1:04:52 They're all-

Kara Swisher 1:04:53 I know, but y- she-

Scott Galloway 1:04:54 Which probably means-

Kara Swisher 1:04:54 ... I'm telling you she didn't have to do it this way.

Scott Galloway 1:04:54 ... she wants to be drafted to be president again. They all write books.

Kara Swisher 1:04:57 President.

Scott Galloway 1:04:57 They get a big-

Kara Swisher 1:04:57 Yeah, she wants to be president.

Scott Galloway 1:04:58 Uh, uh, everyone needs to make a living. She got $2 or $3 million advance-

Kara Swisher 1:05:02 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:05:02 ... to write a book, and she wants to make it interesting-

Kara Swisher 1:05:04 She had to so people-

Scott Galloway 1:05:05 ... so people read it. And, okay, wow-

Kara Swisher 1:05:06 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:05:06 ... what a revelation that it was reckless of... Okay.

Kara Swisher 1:05:10 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:05:10 No shit.

Kara Swisher 1:05:12 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:05:12 No shit.

Kara Swisher 1:05:13 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:05:13 And now... That doesn't help-

Kara Swisher 1:05:15 Scotts- (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:05:15 ... Vice President Harris.

Kara Swisher 1:05:16 Scotts Review, no shit, Sherlock.

Scott Galloway 1:05:18 No shit. Real-

Kara Swisher 1:05:19 No shit.

Scott Galloway 1:05:19 ... rea- really?

Kara Swisher 1:05:21 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:05:22 Really?

Kara Swisher 1:05:23 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:05:24 It wasn't the right move for him to stay as long as he did?

Kara Swisher 1:05:30 (laughs) It was reckless.

Scott Galloway 1:05:31 Wow.

Kara Swisher 1:05:31 Anyway, we got one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.

Kara Swisher 1:05:36 Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction.

Scott Galloway 1:05:38 Well, it's the boring stuff that moves the needle, but, um, we have become kind of the master... We, we are the Messi of own goals. And for those of you who don't know Lionel Messi, greatest football player in the history of the game. And the most recent one barely got any coverage, but, uh, earlier, or last week, um, uh, I think it was, okay, on September 4th, the Hyundai Motor Group, um, Meta plant in America was raided by ICE. About 475 people were detained, including 300 South Koreans who were here on a B1 visa, visitor visa, which don't normally authorize certain types of manual or long-term work, but they're used all the time for the type of work they were doing. And legal representations argue that many workers' contracts had the required specifications. So, it's up for debate whether they had the right visa or not. And they're saying that Homelands, Homeland Security, Georgia State Patrol, that they, actions followed a warrant, an investigation into unlawful employment practices at the plant. So what happened? Uh, these people who were incarcerated, South Korea immediately chartered a plane, has brought them all back to South Korea, and by the way, this factory?... is part of a, you know, this was going to be a $7.5 billion factory. This is exactly what the president claimed he was going to do, bring manufacturing and greater investment into America. South Korea is a fantastic ally. What if we, what if Germany said, "You know, the US, US, you're just cleaning up with an AI. We need some of your great American companies to invest in Germany." And we opened an NVIDIA plant there, and we had people over there under what looks to be a legal visa, and then German police raided it, incarcerated our engineers. How would we respond? So, this is how, this is how South Korea's going to respond. LG, Samsung, Hyundai, they're going to substantially curtail any plans for capital investment in the United States. Th- this was not only stupid, but it's basically going to set us back economically. So, this was again, yet again, another own goal. And then my other one is, um, Russian drones. Russia is, everybody says, uh, you know, Trump was fond of saying, "Oh, I, they, they would, Russia would have never done this if I was president." Russia is poking Trump in the eye right now. First, a cyberattack on an EU plane with an EU minister. Fine. That's a test. And most recently, they have flown attack drones-

Kara Swisher 1:08:12 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:08:12 ... into Polish airspace.

Kara Swisher 1:08:15 Seeing what we do.

Scott Galloway 1:08:15 And, and to see how, how we or the EU-

Kara Swisher 1:08:19 We react.

Scott Galloway 1:08:19 ... respond. And, uh, I'm not going to get in... Uh, my prediction isn't a geopolitical prediction. My prediction is the following. The best stocks for the second half of the year or the last quarter of the year are going to be European defense stocks. Because Russia sending attack drones into Poland? By the way, Poland is protected by Article 5 of NATO, meaning if they're attacked, all 32 member nations of NATO are attacked. What does this mean? Russia is contemplating or toying with military action against NATO, so what is the economic implication of that? You're about to see... Poland has already increased its percentage of GDP going to defense spending. By the way, Poland is an economic miracle. It's gonna go to defense, oh my gosh, you're gonna see, uh, an increase in defense spending coming out of the EU nations. And they're going to say, "You know what? We're not spending it on Northrup Grumman. We're not going to spend it on Anduril. Uh, we're not going to spend it on Boeing. We're going to spend it on European defense companies." And guess what? There aren't that many of them. So, the publicly traded, the 10 or 15 publicly traded European defense stocks are about to see the mother of all capital inflows. So, the best performing stocks for the last quarter of the year are about to be European defense stocks because of these drones that Putin sent into Polish airspace.

Kara Swisher 1:09:36 Yeah. Wow. Y- y- you're going geopolitical investing. That's really good.

Scott Galloway 1:09:40 There you go.

Kara Swisher 1:09:40 I love it. Um, uh, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about biz and tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe this week, Prof G Markets, Scott spoke with Justin Wolfers. I love Justin. Professor of Public Policy and Economics at the University of Michigan. Let's listen to a clip.

Larry Ellison 1:10:02 I happen to think that AI is the most interesting technology of my lifetime, and we may be on the cusp of one of the great technological revolutions. I also might be wrong. That's fine too. That debate is arguably the most interesting and most important economic debate, how to regulate AI, what role it'll play in our lives, how to cushion people for its impact, how to turbocharge it so that we get everything we want out of it, may be the most important economic debate of our lifetimes, and instead we're sitting around talking about tariffs.

Kara Swisher 1:10:32 Ah, fascinating. Fascinating. You've interviewed Russell Crowe, that's great. Uh, okay-

Scott Galloway 1:10:36 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 1:10:36 ... that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot-

Scott Galloway 1:10:38 I am Maximus or whatever he said.

Kara Swisher 1:10:40 He's coming out with a new movie where he plays, I think, Goering, Hermann Goering, uh, during the Nuremberg trials. It looks amazing.

Scott Galloway 1:10:46 Wow.

Kara Swisher 1:10:47 With Rami Malek. Oh, it looks so good. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot, and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott, read us out.

Scott Galloway 1:10:56 Today's show was produced by Lara Nehm and Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin and Kate Gallagher. Aalia Jackson engineered this episode. Jim Mackell edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Barros, Miss Siverio, and Dan Chalon. Nishad Kuraz, Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Kara, have a great weekend.