PivotHeated Rivalry Producers: How We Made a Hit
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
45 min read · 8,508 words- 0:00 – 5:08
Intro
- KSKara Swisher
[upbeat music] Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. Today, we've got a special bonus episode, and it's not about anything terrifying or depressing. It's about the most addictive, delightful, surprise cultural phenomena of the decade, Heated Rivalry. Uh, I'm joined today by the show's creator, Jacob Tierney, and executive producer, Brendan Brady. Uh, welcome, you two.
- SPSpeaker
Thank you.
- KSKara Swisher
You guys are a hoot already. I already-
- BBBrendan Brady
Thanks, Kara.
- KSKara Swisher
We've been beset by some tech issues, but nonetheless, the gays will prevail.
- BBBrendan Brady
[laughing]
- KSKara Swisher
Um, the success of the show is about so many things: queer joy, uh, uh, sex, inclusion. It's an amazing business story, and that's really what I wanted to talk about. Um, but first for the fans, are we getting a standalone episode before Season 2?
- BBBrendan Brady
[laughing] Um, I love saying now... This is Brendan. So, uh, uh, I would say that, like, much like the best parts of this show, just enjoy the yearn.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughing] Enjoy the yearn? Is that on your T-shirts?
- SPSpeaker
Uh, it could be.
- BBBrendan Brady
Oh, no, soon. Trademark, trademark. We've trademarked it.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughing] Yeah, okay, because that means no. That's a no.
- SPSpeaker
[laughing] That's-
- BBBrendan Brady
We'll see.
- SPSpeaker
Here, this is Jacob speaking now. Uh, that's a... Here's the, here's the truth, and that nobody actually wants to hear, is that we, we just don't know yet. We are... You know, we, we actually only finished this show a, basically a week before Episode 6 aired, and so this has been a, a, a massive, uh, surprise and endea- [laughing] and endeavor, and we didn't really have a moment to catch our breaths before answering questions like this. So the truth is, we're, we're getting a plan in place. We will have more information for folks soon. Uh, we understand that there's an appetite for a lot of this, and we're just trying to figure out what we can a- physically accomplish i- in, in the next year.
- KSKara Swisher
In the next year.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
So one thing, this show has been a giant PR boost for the entire, your entire country. Here's Prime Minister Mark Carney at a recent media event. You had to... Speaking of feel the yearn, but go ahead.
- SPSpeaker
The world knows that Shane and Ilya are rising hockey stars who fall for each other as they face off in one of the greatest rivalries the game has ever known. But they're also two young men who are terrified of being their fullest self, and we live in an increasingly dangerous, divided, and intolerant world. [applauding] A fundamental Canadian value is that people should be able to be whoever they want to be, to love whoever they want to love.
- KSKara Swisher
So, uh, the narrative has become that it was a little show out of Canada, obviously made in Canada, 'cause American distributors were afraid of the sex content. Why don't you start, Jacob? Uh, the reaction, first of all, and the kind of w- what you think is happening here, from... I mean, I'm sure you've answered this question, but he, he sort of articulates it rather well, is that people are, are upset and divided, and this brings a respite. But I think it's more than that, in my, in my opinion. But why don't you start, Jacob, and then you, Brendan?
- SPSpeaker
I mean, I think that there's... I, I think that what the show did in an, in a kind of an un-preachy, un-trying to teach you a lesson way, is just present queer joy, and I think that that's its soft power. You know, that's the thing that I think people are surprised by and, and that, that has hit people, at least from what, what I'm getting. And I think that while there are queer stories out there, I don't think there's a lot of joy, and I don't think that the, the, the, the kind of profound joy that you only find in romance, really, that kind of heart-filling, uh, fantasy-fulfilling, desire-fulfilling things that, that you get to see, uh, don't happen to queer people uh, in media, and I think that that is the kind of whoosh of it all.
- KSKara Swisher
Especially men, actually.
- SPSpeaker
Especially... Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
There's a lot of lesbian content out there, I can tell you.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
On the L word.
- SPSpeaker
I, I think especially men, and I, and I think that, um, yeah, we just don't... T- to have a story that chooses to not- and you know, there are obviously, the, the, uh... Our queer lives are filled with trauma, and, and I get that, and we, I think we all know that. But I think that this, this show's desire to not focus on that, to focus on other parts of the queer experience, w- a- as fantasy, I- and I fully [laughing] admit, it, this-
- KSKara Swisher
Right, it's a romance
- SPSpeaker
... It's-
- KSKara Swisher
It's from a romance novel
- 5:08 – 7:06
"Heated Rivalry" And Its Female Fanbase
- SPSpeaker
kinda how we were pitching this when we were going out to people, which is this is a story written by women, and it's consumed primarily by women. And we don't take female, uh, desire and stories seriously in media a lot of the times. Um, I think a show, uh, like this, that came out of nowhere, is kind of... We were, when we were pitching it, we were really crossing our fingers, hoping that we were right. We were like, "There is a built-in audience. There, the, these books are consumed so... There's so many readers of all types of romance novels. They're there, and they are yearning for, uh, for these stories to be told." So I think that was the other, like, secret sauce in this, is just, like, this is a massive fan base that, uh, have not had their stories taken seriously, and they got to see it taken seriously, and they loved it.
- KSKara Swisher
... Well, talk about that, because r- romance, the pe- I always say, everyone's like, "Well, it's so popular." I'm like, "It's a romance novel." It's from- romance novels are pop... It's one of those genres that people don't realize how big it is, how big that particular-
- JTJacob Tierney
And as a genre, it's been around since the dawn of time. Like, it's as old as a-
- KSKara Swisher
Right
- JTJacob Tierney
... detective story. You know, it's as old as-
- KSKara Swisher
Right
- JTJacob Tierney
... all of... Like, romance is... I mean, there would've been a time when, when Jane Austen would've been considered romance. I mean, that's-
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- JTJacob Tierney
These are-
- KSKara Swisher
That's fair.
- JTJacob Tierney
And it's dismissed, I think to Brendan's point, it's dismissed de- despite the fact that it, it, it, the romance genre carries the publishing industry in terms of fiction.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- JTJacob Tierney
Um-
- KSKara Swisher
Right
- JTJacob Tierney
... and I think it's dismissed because, um, of the misogyny that we all endlessly live with, because it's something that appeals to women, is often written by women, and consumed by women. And so why would any- uh, I, I've said this before, I was like, "If this show was about a boy with a gun, somebody would've optioned this book 10 years ago." You know, any-
- KSKara Swisher
10 year... Well, or a hockey player with a gun, that would be interesting. [laughs]
- JTJacob Tierney
Any boy with a gun, who cares? [laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
Anyway, talk about this, but getting it made. Like, we talk on the success on, on, on what it symbolizes. The difference between Canada and the US, though, even how these productions are funded, um, let me... Talk about this idea of it was
- 7:06 – 11:20
Why “Heated Rivalry” Was Made In Canada
- KSKara Swisher
made in Canada because American distributors, and let me play very quickly a part of Mark Carney's speech about that and how it was funded.
- SPSpeaker
On behalf of Canada's new government... Look, I'm a politician, I'm not above taking credit for the Canadian funding- [laughing] ... that helped you share this story with the world. I might not have been here [laughs] when the decision was made, but, you know, I'm here now, so- [laughing] ... uh, yeah. I made- I greenlit this thing! I stood up to the Americans.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- BBBrendan Brady
Oh, that's amazing.
- KSKara Swisher
That was an amazing speech.
- BBBrendan Brady
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
Go ahead.
- BBBrendan Brady
So I, I think that, um, like, you know, this speech that he gave was at an event c- uh, called Prime Time, which is hosted by the Producers, uh, Canadian Producer Media Association, like the Canadian version of the PGA. And the point of this was to raise awareness of what's going on in our industry, because, uh, the entertainment landscape is under attack right now. We've been trying to update our systems, wum, and because of CUSMA, because of, uh, the US's, um, you know, wanting to come in and tell us how to run our country, and how our cultural sector needs to be dictated, there's a lot of concern about whether or not we're going to have a system in place that has cultural sovereignty for Canada. And so for us, what was so amazing about this experience and getting to see Mark Carney there is, our show was made in the Canadian system, and it is very different from the US. We get-
- KSKara Swisher
Well, explain it. Explain it for people who don't understand.
- BBBrendan Brady
So basically, the Canadian f- uh, film and TV system has subsidies, and equity, and grant systems that are propped up by the Canadian government. So we... You know, when you go to a broadcaster like we did with Crave, which is the streaming platform in Canada that, um, commissioned the show, uh, they go and say, "Okay, great, here is a license fee." Typically, it'll run between 20 to 30% of the budget. Then we have a tax credit, both provincial and federal, and that brings another 20 to 30% of the budget, and then it's always that last little piece that you're looking for, right? So the benefit to us in C- uh, Canada as producers is, it's unfortunate that we don't get necessarily the whole budget out of our, uh, broadcasters, but we, as the producers, own all the underlying IP.
- KSKara Swisher
I see.
- BBBrendan Brady
So that is a big difference-
- KSKara Swisher
So you don't sell it to a studio.
- JTJacob Tierney
Exactly.
- BBBrendan Brady
Exactly.
- JTJacob Tierney
We are the studio-
- BBBrendan Brady
It is ours
- JTJacob Tierney
... in this system. Yeah.
- BBBrendan Brady
But the, the, you know, the limitations on that are you have to go then raise money.
- JTJacob Tierney
Mm-hmm.
- BBBrendan Brady
So how we did this with our show is, we ended up k- talking to a couple of, uh, studios, some of them American, some of them Canadian, and u- ultimately, it wasn't the right fit from a creative perspective. And, you know, we've, w- we understand where everybody was coming from. It is a... This was, you know, on paper, didn't seem like a, an amazing, massive hit right out the gate. Um, and so luckily, when we were going through this process, uh, Crave's parent company, which is Bell Media... Bell Media is like if Comcast and Disney were merged-
- KSKara Swisher
Yep
- BBBrendan Brady
... into one in our country.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- BBBrendan Brady
They own everything from telecommunications, to internet, to sports.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- BBBrendan Brady
So-
- KSKara Swisher
And they have divisions like Crave-
- JTJacob Tierney
Correct
- KSKara Swisher
... which is a streaming platform.
- 11:20 – 14:53
“Heated Rivalry” Budget:About $2.2 Million Us Per Episode
- BBBrendan Brady
So we were just under 3 million Canadian an episode.
- KSKara Swisher
Amazing. That's pretty low, which is what in American-
- JTJacob Tierney
Kara, I don't know if you want to make a big deal of this, but Brendan is telling the truth.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- BBBrendan Brady
Yeah. We've been-
- JTJacob Tierney
Well, it's to... Kara, Kara Swisher gets this because- She gets the truth. This is the-
- BBBrendan Brady
She gets the truth
- JTJacob Tierney
... this is exclusive. [laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
That's right. [laughs]
- BBBrendan Brady
We were, uh, we were just under 3, uh-
- KSKara Swisher
Per episode.
- BBBrendan Brady
Yeah, per episode Canadian.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- BBBrendan Brady
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
'Cause it looks great, by the way.
- BBBrendan Brady
Thank you.
- JTJacob Tierney
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
It didn't look on the cheap or anything else, 'cause if you don't have the-
- BBBrendan Brady
Well, that's also... That speaks to Jacob-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- BBBrendan Brady
... and his am- amazing abilities. He's directed-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- BBBrendan Brady
... over 100 episodes of television, so he-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- BBBrendan Brady
... knows what he's doing, and also speaks to a way in which we like to work, uh, which we feel really am-... is, is different than the US system, or typical production.
- KSKara Swisher
So that is an enormously low, uh, amount. And for people who don't know, it's, it's very low for a regular television shows. I mean, the salary of like-
- JTJacob Tierney
It's low for a sitcom.
- KSKara Swisher
It's-
- JTJacob Tierney
It's deeply low for a one-hour drama.
- KSKara Swisher
It's-
- 14:53 – 18:40
Jacob Tierney On His Collaborative Style
- JTJacob Tierney
the [laughs] ... I guess w- what I, what I mean about that is there's a desire often for perfection that is, I think, not only a, a, unachievable, but also, uh, insane and cruel to be even attempting. There's no reason to do... If you're doing 25 takes of a scene because you don't like the performance of the actor, I, I, I'm an actor. I've been doing this since I was four years old. The problem is the scene, it's not the actor. You haven't written it properly. If you're not accomplishing what you need to accomplish, there's a fundamental issue, and by torturing people into repeating and repeating and repeating, I don't know what you're gaining. And so-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- JTJacob Tierney
... that's kind of-
- KSKara Swisher
I just did, I just did a pr- it was all day. I was like, "Why?"
- JTJacob Tierney
It's insane.
- KSKara Swisher
I kept saying, "Why?"
- JTJacob Tierney
It's insane.
- KSKara Swisher
"Why is it all day?"
- JTJacob Tierney
To do nine different sizes on a close-up is insane. All of this stuff-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- JTJacob Tierney
... is crazy. It, it's just like, it doesn't add to anything except exhaustion and to overworking people. I would- and what I w- like to say is, I would rather be surprised by an offering from an actor than control every last aspect of their performance, and I've used the... a scene as an example. Like, on the day when we were shooting, there's a scene in the sixth episode in the cottage after the boys have been caught by Shane's dad, where Hudson and Connor have a scene together, and they, es- e- essentially, he decides that he's gonna go talk to his parents, that Ilya's gonna come with him. And when we were shooting it, I thought... I, I wasn't convinced that I was gonna use what Hudson was doing in that scene. I thought it might be too much. He was reacting. He had a big reaction, which is interesting for Hudson, 'cause he's a very internal actor, especially when he's playing Shane. And I didn't say anything, and I just kind of watched it, and I was like, "This is interesting. I think I can cut around this. I think I can figure out how to get what I want out of this scene." And then, when I got to the editing room, and my editor put the scene together, she loved what he had done. And I looked at it again with new eyes, and I was like, "Oh, I actually love this, too." And I'm so glad I didn't insist on some idea that I had in my head, 'cause what he brought to the table was more interesting, and it was surprising, and it was full of life, and it wasn't part of some insane jigsaw plan that I had in my head that needs to fit together or s-
- KSKara Swisher
Right
- JTJacob Tierney
... everything falls apart. And I-
- KSKara Swisher
Well, it's a different way of creating, right?
- JTJacob Tierney
It is a different way of creating-
- KSKara Swisher
Where you don't
- JTJacob Tierney
... but also, I, I do believe fundamentally that filming TV is an ensemble process. It is. Otherwise, go write a book. You know, go paint a picture. There's lots of ways to be in total control, but as soon as you invite other talents in, as soon as you invite... You're in a medium in which that is a part of h- how it's gonna have to happen, to a- ask these brilliant people to work with you and then not listen to them, or not, [laughs] not use their skills-
- KSKara Swisher
Well, although that's sort of the director genre, right? Like, the director gets to run everything, or gets to run everything.
- JTJacob Tierney
Yeah, and I think it's a crazy system, you know? Like, I-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- JTJacob Tierney
... I want to work-
- KSKara Swisher
It definitely takes long
- JTJacob Tierney
... with talented people, and I want to... W- what are they doing here if I'm not gonna listen to them, if I'm not gonna incorporate their ideas, if I'm not gonna incorporate what makes them so talented, why I wanted to work with them in the first place? And so, you know, [laughs] anti-fascist might be a big statement, but it is kind of... It, it's a rejection of an idea that everything has to come from one person, and like, what... You know, the, the brilliant man-
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, it's very top-down
- JTJacob Tierney
... idea. It's very top-down.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I've had very-
- JTJacob Tierney
I've-
- KSKara Swisher
... I've had very little experience, but I've been on several sets.
- JTJacob Tierney
I mean, the idea of-
- KSKara Swisher
'Cause I am now-
- 18:40 – 28:59
Canadian Production Vs American Production
- SPSpeaker
I, uh, you know, worked on a show called Letterkenny and Shoresy, and the producers of that show made it in Canada as well, and they had a robust merchandise business. And when we were in post-production, we decided because we have... we, you know, retained all the intellectual property behind the series, that we wanted to take advantage of that and make a line of merchandise, which we're doing, which is now incredibly, uh... Like, it's, it's become this amazing part of our business that we're super excited about. But it also means that ultimately, like, when we, we made the decision to reinvest our fees, it was because we knew that if this goes really well, we're gonna benefit for the next 25 years off of this. And that is the difference, and I think, like, what... You know, people always ask about, or i- I guess you look at the Canadian system versus the American system. The Canadian system, you as the producers, if you want to take advantage of being a really, truly Canadian show, part of the g- like, the offering is the broadcasters can't own the IP, the producers get to. And some people will look at that and, you know, the... But the flip side in the US is you're making way more money up front. I don't think that either is right and the other is wrong, I just think that our system, uh, is something to protect. Because what's happening in the US, you can kind of look to and say, "I mean, is this fully working right now?" Like, can we really argue that this system is better than ours? No, but I can say that for 100 years, this business was run on the idea that creators and the people who made it got to own and benefit from what they d- did for their entire lives, and I think that that's something worth fighting for.
- KSKara Swisher
I, I think so, completely. At o- at some point, I wasn't gonna make something for someone, and I said, "Uh, you just have to give me IP." And they said, "Why do you have to have it?" I said, "It's none of your business."
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. [laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
"Just 'cause I want it."
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, exactly.
- KSKara Swisher
" 'Cause it's mine. It's not yours. You didn't come up with it."
- JTJacob Tierney
It's like you're a musician, right? It was, like, own your own publishing, right?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- JTJacob Tierney
Because why would you let somebody else-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- JTJacob Tierney
... administer your work and take all the profit from it?
- KSKara Swisher
That's correct.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, and, and, like, we're gonna... W- we have opportunities, and we will work in the system that doesn't have that, and it'll be fine as well, but I just think that, like-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... when we talk about, you know, there's so many reasons why budgets have exploded. You know, the econom- like, the economy of scale on, on TV has just completely fallen out because we don't make episode, enough episodes. We don't con- contain them into certain locations. But also, it doesn't matter if you have a massive hit or kind of a middling hit, you seem to win no matter what at that level. So I think that there is something to look at as we move forward in these systems of, like, giving people backend again. Like, these-
- KSKara Swisher
Right
- SPSpeaker
... these old ideas should be new.
- KSKara Swisher
Right, which they, which they have changed. So we're gonna take a quick break. When we come back, we'll have a question from a big fan. [swishing sound] We're back with Heated Rivalry's executive producers Jacob Tierney and Brendan Brady, uh, who, uh, are behind, the, the, the people behind, uh, this huge hit, Heated Rivalry. I'm friends with Ilene Chaiken, the executive producer of The L Word, Handmaid's Tale, and many other shows, and of course, the groundbreaking sort of gay show in the United States was this one, uh, which was many moons ago. She had a question we're gonna play for you right now. [swishing sound]
- SPSpeaker
Jacob, I love your show, absolutely love it. Congratulations. Here's my question: Our mutual friend, colleague, agent, ally, Matt Felker, shared with me the outlandish and stupidly familiar story of getting Heated Rivalry on the air, all the rejections that preceded your fabulous and well-deserved massive success. So do you feel vindicated, pissed, annoyed, smugly satisfied, grateful, just enjoying the process, more determined than ever to sell- tell sexy, queer, human stories, some other emotion that I didn't describe, or perhaps haven't yet even experienced?
- JTJacob Tierney
[swishing sound] That's a, um-
- SPSpeaker
That's amazing.
- JTJacob Tierney
That's a great question. I-
- KSKara Swisher
She's great. For people that don't know, L Word really was-
- JTJacob Tierney
L Word was a brilliant show
- KSKara Swisher
... groundbreaking.
- JTJacob Tierney
Yeah, absolutely.
- KSKara Swisher
At the time-
- JTJacob Tierney
Yeah
- KSKara Swisher
... um, was shocking and showed people happy, happy.
- SPSpeaker
Yes, it did. It showed a lot of complexity. I mean, yeah, it was a-
- 28:59 – 33:40
Entertainment And Second Screens
- JTJacob Tierney
is people saying, like, "This is a show you have to pay attention to." If you're on your phone, you're not gonna get it, because it's so much about what is not-
- KSKara Swisher
Some
- JTJacob Tierney
... being said, about catching looks between people. It is dialogue as avoidance and obfuscation, and the storyline is actually really simple. Uh, they're in love. They can't admit it. So, like [chuckles] , it's actually not a super complicated plot in that way, but so much of it is about the ways in which they're avoiding each other, the ways in which-
- KSKara Swisher
Right
- JTJacob Tierney
... they cannot speak. That's why the sex is so important, because that's when they're being honest. And so I- I think there is definitely a move towards oversimplification. That being said, you know, I, I don't- I wouldn't wanna make too much of a big deal about this. [chuckles] Like, everybody wants an opening that captures you. Like, that's not new. Like, the, that, that's been a note since the dawn of time with stories. Like, w- "Let me in. W- what's the first scene? Why are you capturing my attention?"
- KSKara Swisher
Same with books, yeah.
- JTJacob Tierney
I don't think that's insane. And I think that, like, I think that that's... You know, I think that this thing, you can see it, I think, in a lot of streamers, uh, you know, where you're like, "Oh, boy, you've just explained a thing to me that I already know." I get, I get that that can be frustrating, but I- I would also add, I am on my phone when I look up and realize you've said it to me this for the [chuckles] third time, and I'm like-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, yeah
- JTJacob Tierney
... "Yeah, you're not wrong. I did drift."
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- JTJacob Tierney
But, like-
- KSKara Swisher
What about you?
- JTJacob Tierney
... and I think that there can be room for both, you know, entertainment-
- KSKara Swisher
Right
- JTJacob Tierney
... and popcorn-y, fun stuff that, like, I kinda don't care. And then every once in a while, something comes along, and you need to pay attention, and that's okay, too.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- JTJacob Tierney
And then, and then it's up to you-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- JTJacob Tierney
... to choose. Do you... Is that too much for you? That's okay. Moving along.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I actually didn't look at my ph- I ha- I have a rule, like, how many, how many text looks d- is it in a movie? How good is it if I don't pick it up at all?
- JTJacob Tierney
That's something.
- KSKara Swisher
Um, and-
- JTJacob Tierney
We have shows in my household with my boyfriend that we put on to be on our phones with. We're aware of this-
- KSKara Swisher
Ah
- JTJacob Tierney
... and we think of them-
- KSKara Swisher
Yes
- JTJacob Tierney
... as like visual podcasts.
- KSKara Swisher
The Grammys.
- JTJacob Tierney
The... Sure.
- KSKara Swisher
Grammys was a good one. W- when you have the, the Netflix acquisition of Warner, does that affect it?
- 33:40 – 36:00
The Future Of AI In Entertainment
- KSKara Swisher
Do you, do you... Is there a big fear from you all about AI? 'Cause this is the... Some of the big hits this year have been the most non-AI type of-
- BBBrendan Brady
Yeah
- KSKara Swisher
... content, like Sinners, Weapons, yours.
- JTJacob Tierney
And will continue to be. You know, I think that-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- JTJacob Tierney
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
I want each of you to talk about it.
- JTJacob Tierney
Brendan has more thoughts on this than I do.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay.
- BBBrendan Brady
Uh, yeah, I think that, listen, there is going to be a place for AI in how we work in this business. I actually think that there are a lot of opportunities, but I think it is in that tool for creators, not as the creative engine behind things.
- KSKara Swisher
Costuming.
- BBBrendan Brady
I think, like-
- KSKara Swisher
Storyboarding
- BBBrendan Brady
... even scheduling-
- JTJacob Tierney
Yeah, prepping, like-
- BBBrendan Brady
... and budgeting-
- JTJacob Tierney
Yeah
- BBBrendan Brady
... and prepping, like, those kinds of things, where you take an immense amount of time trying to just input data. So much of our jobs are data-driven, like, just trying to get information.
- JTJacob Tierney
Totally.
- BBBrendan Brady
And I do think... Exactly. I think that those are the opportunities out, out right away that we will see, and where I would love for people to focus their attention. Because we were experiencing this, and I'm sure, Kara, you can e- you have had this with your team. Those moments of friction when you're trying to explain something to someone, and they don't get it, that is hard to replicate. That is hard to do with AI in a way that-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- BBBrendan Brady
... actually gets you to a place where you're like, "Okay, cool."
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- BBBrendan Brady
"We have now communicated together, and we are on the aligned, and you're now gonna-"
- KSKara Swisher
Friction's q-
- BBBrendan Brady
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
Speaking of friction, your whole show is about friction.
- BBBrendan Brady
Hell, yeah.
- JTJacob Tierney
Hell, yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
Hell, yeah.
- 36:00 – 39:25
What's Next For The "Heated Rivalry" Team?
- KSKara Swisher
kind of thing. Like, you can do... Obviously, you're gonna do another season of this, maybe two, three, whatever, um, w- 'cause there's lots of books, for people who don't realize. Um, w- what, what would you wanna make? Would you direct, say, a Pointed- Point Break remake with your Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. [laughs] stars?
- BBBrendan Brady
Another one?
- JTJacob Tierney
The third?
- KSKara Swisher
Where they finally fuck.
- JTJacob Tierney
The third-
- KSKara Swisher
Yes
- JTJacob Tierney
... Point Break, the gay one?
- KSKara Swisher
Where they finally fuck. [laughing]
- BBBrendan Brady
Uh, I don't know-
- JTJacob Tierney
Oh, man, that, I'm very open to a father-son story with Hudson Williams and Keanu Reeves, however, I would be-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, [laughing] however
- JTJacob Tierney
... Um, you know-
- KSKara Swisher
They do look alike.
- JTJacob Tierney
They do. They really do.
- BBBrendan Brady
They do.
- JTJacob Tierney
And Keanu's Canadian.
- BBBrendan Brady
Yeah.
- JTJacob Tierney
He can come home. We could do a fun thing together.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh.
- JTJacob Tierney
Um-
- BBBrendan Brady
Yeah, yeah.
- JTJacob Tierney
You know, we are being, we... I, I'm certainly being offered a lot of things, and, uh, uh, and, uh, yeah, I'm very excited about what's next, and I-
- KSKara Swisher
Is there anything you're like, "God, I have to do that"?
- JTJacob Tierney
I can't really say, but I, I can tell you that-
- KSKara Swisher
Ooh, can't really say
- JTJacob Tierney
... once I can talk about-... a couple of things. Uh, they are-
- KSKara Swisher
Uh-huh.
- JTJacob Tierney
One of which, in particular, is, uh, a, a dream, uh, come true. Uh, so yeah, I, I'm, I'm excited to be able to eventually talk about it, but I, I can't at this point.
- KSKara Swisher
But right now-
- BBBrendan Brady
We've got also-
Episode duration: 39:25
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