Inside Elon Musk’s Obsession With Building a ‘Legion’ of Super Babies | Pivot

Kara Swisher 0:00 Elon, you are a sick puppy. I have to tell you, one sick puppy. And I feel bad for these women, I feel bad for these kids. (instrumental music) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

Scott Galloway 0:18 So when I'm in New York every morning, a ritual for me is I make coffee and I order a quiche, a blueberry muffin, and a chai latte from Baltazar.

Kara Swisher 0:29 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 0:29 And then I go and I have my morning ritual, as in my sit down. You know, I like to stay regular. And then the doorman will put the Baltazar delivery in the elevator. And I heard the elevator door open, and if I don't get it-

Kara Swisher 0:42 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 0:42 ...it goes all the way back down, and I'm always worried that someone's gonna steal my chai latte from Baltazar.

Kara Swisher 0:47 Okay.

Scott Galloway 0:48 And so I literally-

Kara Swisher 0:49 I know where this is going, but okay.

Scott Galloway 0:50 ...with all the grace and strength of a jungle cat-

Kara Swisher 0:54 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 0:54 ...I leapt up from the basin, and at that moment, it dawned on me, I'm an astronaut.

Kara Swisher 1:00 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:00 And in between the time (laughs) between my flight between the basin and the ceramic-

Kara Swisher 1:07 Uh-huh.

Scott Galloway 1:07 ...I realized we're all one part of the same species, Kara. We're all-

Kara Swisher 1:13 Oh, Katy Perry.

Scott Galloway 1:13 We're, why can't we just love each other?

Kara Swisher 1:15 Oh, man.

Scott Galloway 1:16 And, and I, I, I recognized when I got back to Earth, everything had just changed for me, Kara.

Kara Swisher 1:21 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:21 Everything had just changed.

Kara Swisher 1:21 Yeah, did you kiss the ground? Or kiss the basin?

Scott Galloway 1:23 Can you get over-

Kara Swisher 1:24 Kiss the basin?

Scott Galloway 1:24 ...how much shit these women are getting?

Kara Swisher 1:26 Oh my God. But can I tell you, I'm sorry to say, deserved. I, like I was trying to see the goodness in it.

Scott Galloway 1:33 Wow.

Kara Swisher 1:33 It, it's because they, they won't stop defending themselves when something was just, they should shush, they... And also, let me say, I know they did some stuff for women in STEM, but they're talking about themselves and not girls and women in tech, especially when people are getting cut. It's just the, uh, uh, it's, they just need to stop talking.

Scott Galloway 1:51 There's so much about this I love.

Kara Swisher 1:52 I know.

Scott Galloway 1:52 My favorite moment was when they live broadcast it.

Kara Swisher 1:55 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:55 The people kind of, you know, there was the actual people at-

Kara Swisher 1:58 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:59 ...Blue Origin, you know, saying, you know, "Two minutes to launch."

Kara Swisher 2:02 Okay.

Scott Galloway 2:02 And someone said, "And this is so exciting, when they're up there, Katy Perry is gonna sing." And right on cue, someone from Blue Origin goes, "One minute warning." (laughs)

Kara Swisher 2:12 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 2:13 That was classic. That was just perfect.

Kara Swisher 2:16 You know, the b- the memes are fantastic.

Scott Galloway 2:17 Oh, they're great.

Kara Swisher 2:18 And they are funny. And I think they're hitting-

Scott Galloway 2:19 They're great.

Kara Swisher 2:19 ...because they're true. Like the one about, the best one, I think you, I, I posted and so did you, was, you know, what happens when a bachelorette party comes into a gay bar?

Scott Galloway 2:28 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 2:28 This is the picture.

Scott Galloway 2:29 This is what happens.

Kara Swisher 2:29 Like exactly, like a straight lady's like whooping it up and stuff.

Scott Galloway 2:33 I, I think we should start a conspiracy that the Katy Perry that came back is not the same Katy Perry that went up. Something has gone on here.

Kara Swisher 2:39 Oh, they may have replaced her.

Scott Galloway 2:40 But there's, there's actually, I have two sort of observations, or two-

Kara Swisher 2:43 Sure.

Scott Galloway 2:43 ...a couple things that struck me. The first is kinda trivial, the other I think is more-

Kara Swisher 2:47 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 2:47 ...I don't know, meaningful. If the magazine industry... Did you see the cover of Elle?

Kara Swisher 2:52 Yes, it was... Yes, there was-

Scott Galloway 2:54 If the magazine industry wanted to just confirm that it's become totally irrelevant and tone-deaf-

Kara Swisher 2:59 Irrelevant, I agree. Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 3:00 ...they managed to do it. I think the, the kinda-

Kara Swisher 3:02 You know, for people who don't know, there, Elle did a-

Scott Galloway 3:03 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 3:04 ...cover with them on it, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway 3:05 And it's not just, it's not just hers. I mean, uh, did you see the Vanity Fair cover of Tim Cook with his mixed reality headset on?

Kara Swisher 3:12 Yes, that was-

Scott Galloway 3:12 They decided that that had something to do with... (laughs)

Kara Swisher 3:15 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 3:15 Anyways, and then that cover from Elle that was literally like, we need the world to, we need to put a fine (laughs) point on the fact that we as magazines are not only no longer relevant, but we're totally tone-deaf. Anyways, that's my trivial observation. My more-

Kara Swisher 3:29 What's your deeper one?

Scott Galloway 3:30 My more substantive observation that I'd like your thoughts on is that...

Kara Swisher 3:35 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 3:35 ...when we get to these levels of income inequality throughout history, they self-correct through war, famine, and oftentimes revolution, right? And when the guillotine shows up, it's okay, they come up with a crime, and maybe this person committed the crime, maybe they didn't. But they're essentially, at the end of the day, the crime is that the 1% have been just fucking the bottom 99% for way too long.

Kara Swisher 3:56 Way too long. That's-

Scott Galloway 3:58 And... Go ahead.

Kara Swisher 3:59 Uh, I was just gonna say, uh, I think it's really interesting how much it's stuck. And especially, what's really fun is people are having fun with it, one, which I think is funny, and I like that. But it's like very high-profile people, like they're, they're, you know, just a lot of celebrities (laughs) are like, "What in the actual fuck is going on?" Which I, is surprising. They usually keep quiet about each other, you know what I... I mean, they really do. But a lot of people who don't are saying things. Some are doing really funny things, like the, the woman who's in Hacks who plays... Who, she's, she's amazing, she plays a, a manager. I'm blanking on her name. Um, she did this whole fake space flight. Everyone's really being creative. But the, i- i- it strikes at a chord of something that is... And especially, I think it is when they're saying, "It's sexist to say it's a ride." I think this is what Gayle King said, "It's sexist to say it's a ride" when Alan Shepard did it. When she did the Alan Shepard comp-

Scott Galloway 4:47 Alan Shepard?

Kara Swisher 4:48 Uh, that's who she was comparing it to. Like, like this was the '60s, Gayle.

Scott Galloway 4:51 You mean someone who trained as an astronaut is who it all happened?

Kara Swisher 4:52 This is, this was hard, this was dangerous back then. And, and more dangerous, obviously. It's always dangerous to go up in space. But, um, it, the fact that they're pretending it's feminist when it's not feminist is anti-feminist, right? That's the thing, is, is...

Scott Galloway 5:08 Well, they look ridiculous.

Kara Swisher 5:09 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 5:09 They make... Uh, attaching it, it's, it's vanity rebranded as feminism or adventure.

Kara Swisher 5:15 Right, right.

Scott Galloway 5:15 But where I was headed was the following, is that I think this can be reverse engineered to income inequality. And that is, my thesis around Black Lives Matter and the Me Too movement was that these were righteous moments inspired by real concerns over systemic racism, the murder of George Floyd, over the fact that women have just been taking on the wrong end of, of abuse and of, uh, of terrible, uh, an unjust power dynamic at work. These are credible movements. But if you look at who they went after, they didn't go after sexism at small or medium-sized business. They didn't go after racism across, uh, the middle class. They go after rich people. And I think this is part of that revolution, and that is people are just so sick...... of rich people trying to claim the little social status they don't have.

Kara Swisher 6:08 Mm-hmm. It's a whole-

Scott Galloway 6:08 And people are just fucking angry. If they had sent up, you know, six middle class teachers or whatever-

Kara Swisher 6:15 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 6:15 ... people, uh, it wouldn't have gotten any attention. But this is... Every revolution and, I- I think we're, quote unquote, "rounding up" people, it just takes on a different complexion. We're rounding up people and sending them to El Salvador. (laughs) Um, this is a form of revolution, but it's little revolutions. And if you look at it, the- w- who people are going for, they're eating the rich because at the end of the day, they look at these people and they go, you know, this system has just become so perverted and slanted towards giving the top .1% everything, including-

Kara Swisher 6:47 Everything.

Scott Galloway 6:47 ... some sort of false sense of adventure or heroism.

Kara Swisher 6:51 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 6:52 A- and people have just, people have just had it. I, again, I think this all can be reversed to income inequality.

Kara Swisher 6:56 The rich need to stay quiet. That's what I feel like.

Scott Galloway 6:59 I-

Kara Swisher 6:59 Like, shut up. Like-

Scott Galloway 7:00 Be rich and anonymous.

Kara Swisher 7:01 Be rich and a- One of the things-

Scott Galloway 7:02 Go to space on your own time, good for you.

Kara Swisher 7:04 You know, it's really interesting because, you know, this White House Correspondents Dinner is happening next weekend and s- one of our friends, I don't think I'm supposed to say who did said it, but s- one of the problems with it is that, that this sort of prostrating before administrations thing has always been an issue, like they go and they yuck it up with their sources kinda thing, and it has a real f- bad feel to it. Why not invite real journale- if it's about the First Amendment, that dinner, instead of trying to, like, hustle to get a good celebrity at your table, like that's what the press does, it tries to outdo each other in celebrity gets, get real journalists from across the country and, and, y- you know, from, from small towns and everywhere else doing things and celebrate them at the dinner. Like, that's the kinda thing that, th- that the sort of the people that really do labor in very difficult circumstances aren't getting the attention when all these other people are, like, just like performing i- i- in front of us and sort of stick- it's, it is sort of a let... One of the best lines would, "Let them eat space," which (laughs) I thought was great.

Scott Galloway 8:05 (laughs) That's good.

Kara Swisher 8:06 Let them eat space.

Scott Galloway 8:08 That's good.

Kara Swisher 8:08 And I was like, ugh. And I- I want you to stop defending it. Just, you realize, i- it was awkward, we get it, we should've given a bunch of money to women and girls, we should've talked about the inequities. And even, even there was the- the- the- the Breakthrough Awards that Silicon Valley does every year, another celebrity fest where the rich people give money to various and sundry, um, scientists and stuff like that. Seth Rogen m- made a comment that was really true about rich people and they cut it out of the feed. They cut it out of the feed. Seth Rogen, who's real funny, um, that kinda stuff. Like you can't even, like they can't even make fun of themselves is really, um, it's a really weird time. Can I add something else? But we're gonna move on because we've got a lot to get to including Trump versus Harvard, which I'm, I know I see you're wearing a Harvard shirt, Elon's harem obviously, Zuck on the stand, and a bunch of stuff. But just briefly what was super funny is the- the- the disconnect is really real and people are trying to figure out a way through it. Um, and I went out to dinner last night, took my mom out to dinner with a bunch of my friends and we were coming out of the restaurant and one of our Pivot fans stopped us and, um, one o- her, she worked for Pat Murphy and her boyfriend said, "I work for Kristen Gillibrand," and my mom was there i- in her wheelchair and my mom's son goes, "Ugh," like that, right? (laughs)

Scott Galloway 9:23 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 9:23 'Cause it's Kristen Gillibrand. And the lady, the woman goes, "Oh, you're the Fox mother. You're the Fox mother, you're lucky." And it was so funny and tried to get a li- so 'cause, so humor is a good way to do it. I know it sounds crazy. We were in hysterics bec- and mom was even laughing because everyone was doing their little performative part, but it was actually true. And so, uh, uh, the thing I do like about this whole space thing is humor. Like-

Scott Galloway 9:50 Mm-hmm. I hear you.

Kara Swisher 9:50 ... there's humor here-

Scott Galloway 9:50 It's funny.

Kara Swisher 9:51 ... which is funny. Anyway-

Scott Galloway 9:52 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 9:52 ... I just, that's the only part. They need to, like, stand down or shut up. Stand down, laugh at themselves, or shut up. That's my feeling. Anyway, um, let's go first because a very

Kara Swisher 10:03 important thing, President Trump has lashed out again at Fed Chair Jerome Powell saying Powell's termination cannot come fast enough. The attack comes a day after Powell warned that terrorists could create a challenging scenario for the Central Bank as it decides whether to control inflation or support economic growth. I mean, cha- that's like the calmest thing, challenging scenario is like a calm way of saying, you know, man the- man the barricades. Let's listen to what Powell said exactly about the Fed's independence too, speaking at the Economic Club of Chicago.

Jerome Powell 10:32 So our- our independence is a matter of law. Um, Congress has i- in our statute, we're not removable except for cause, we serve very long terms, seemingly endless terms.

Narrator 10:43 (laughs)

Jerome Powell 10:46 Um, so it's, it, we're protect- protected in the law. So, you know, Congress could change that law but there's, I don't think there's any danger of that. Uh, Fed independence has pretty broad support, uh, across, uh, both political parties and in- in, um, both sides of The Hill. So, I think that's not a problem.

Kara Swisher 11:03 Powell's term ends in May 2026. Oh God, I'm so nervous about that. So, he- he keeps threatening to fire him and he's done it at the FTC which had, uh, level of independence and he just does it. Um, obviously he's doing it with everything like whether it's Carvert or- or- Mm-hmm. ... we'll get to that in a second. Um, do you have much confidence in staying power of the Fed's independence? And the Trump administration is doing it at the Justice Department. Pam Bondi has lost her- her m- ever-loving fucking mind by the way, speaking of which, her appearances this week have been embarrassing. Um, can you talk a little bit about the, what- what happens here? Because he's, hasn't, he just runs through stop signs like no problem whatsoever.

Scott Galloway 11:42 Um, (sighs) I mean I've just been, I- I have such a inability to predict what's gonna happen here. There's been so many things that have been disqualifying what I thought were red lines that they've just blown through and people are sort of, I don't know, seem fairly numb to. But if you wanna talk about a move that could take the market down five or 8,000 points, it's fire...... Chairman Powell, because the separation of central banks from politics is one of the key stabilizing factors in the Western economy. Because what you have is a group of people who, leaders, elected leaders, who panic, and the reason they usually get voted out of office can almost always be reverse engineered to economic strain on the citizens. And a, a quick kind of fix or sugar high to get you out of trouble would just be to flood the market or lower interest rates, which might be over the medium or, or the long-term absolutely disastrous. So Western nations, I mean, I think every Western nation through central bank or their fed chair whatevers, or I just interviewed Prime Minister Carney. He was the first non-Brit to be the head of the Bank of England.

Kara Swisher 12:47 Yeah, he wa- he's a-

Scott Galloway 12:48 But they-

Kara Swisher 12:48 ... he's a big deal.

Scott Galloway 12:49 ... they all, almost from all pita- political persuasions, all agree that if we subject these people to political pressure it's not, it could be disastrous for the economy.

Kara Swisher 13:00 Right.

Scott Galloway 13:01 Because these people have to look at the data and make very important decisions about interest rates that affect currency, flows of capital, and the temptation to just put pressure on, you know, the fed chair and say, "Lower interest rates, I need a sugar high right now. I need the markets to go back up," whatever it is. And then you might end up with crazy inflation or stagflation. So the independence, I, I don't, I think he's gonna back down because just the same way he blinked last week when he saw the tenure spike 50 basis points, uh, I think someone will say, "You do this. Hold on tight when the market opens tomorrow at 9:00 AM."

Kara Swisher 13:37 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 13:37 Um, so I don't even think it's, I think they've decided the courts will side with them, who cares.

Kara Swisher 13:42 Right.

Scott Galloway 13:42 We got a court order to turn around a plane, we got a court order to bring someone back and we wanna claim... We can bring Katy Perry back from space but we can't bring a person we sent incorrectly to these El Salvadoran prisons. By the way, w- they brought people back initially, they brought back women-

Kara Swisher 13:55 They did, women.

Scott Galloway 13:55 ... and some Venezuelans. So, but I don't think, I think the thing that stops him from doing that, right now Chairman Powell is probably the most respected appointed, he's the most respected person in the Trump Administration right now, if you could call him part of the administration accidentally.

Kara Swisher 14:11 Sure, but, le- let me, what does, Powell's termination cannot come fast enough, 'cause he, his, his job terminates next May.

Scott Galloway 14:19 Right.

Kara Swisher 14:19 Correct. So that, is he meaning that? What is, what is the language here? Termination. Like-

Scott Galloway 14:24 I, I don't know. He's threatening to fire him, I don't know what it is.

Kara Swisher 14:28 Is he?

Scott Galloway 14:28 I don't know. You tell me.

Kara Swisher 14:28 That's the problem. I mean, saying things like this, by the way, are so dangerous. Just saying them, what he's doing, is so ridiculous. Um-

Scott Galloway 14:35 Brand toxic uncertainty.

Kara Swisher 14:37 Yeah. And it, like, I think that's exactly the term that's correct. I, I think Powell is really just like, "Fuck you." Like, "Come at me sir," essentially, the way he's talking.

Scott Galloway 14:46 What, what is... Chair- Chairman Powell is, is literally (laughs) he's gonna leave, he's gonna leave his tenure as someone who pulled us back from COVID, who, uh, whose economic policies the markets set new unprecedented highs. Some people would probably criticize it-

Kara Swisher 15:05 A little too much partying.

Scott Galloway 15:07 Well, or a little too much, I would say, policies, although you could argue he doesn't control those. The, the reason we're in such a crazy corner right now is because we as Americans, and this is true through Democratic and Republican administrations, are under the delusion that we can spend seven trill- uh, we can spend $7 trillion a year while taking in 5 trillion in tax receipts, and that everything will be all right. And then we get backed into a corner (laughs) where we, the whole world owns our debt, and they not only are reciprocating with a trade war, they're reciprocating with a capital war. And that is they just go into the market and sell a disproportionate number of our Treasury bills, and the tenure spikes and all of a sudden we have an additional $175 billion in interest rate payments, which we weren't planning on making. I mean, we have put ourselves in such a vulnerable position because if you think of the US as a household, we make $50,000 a year in tax receipts, we're spending 70 and we have credit card debt of $370,000, and the scary thing is the kids, despite not (laughs) spending any of this money or really benefiting from it are gonna inherit those credit card bills.

Kara Swisher 16:12 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 16:13 And everyone has power over us now. We no longer really own our home, um, so this is-

Kara Swisher 16:19 The Chinese do.

Scott Galloway 16:21 ... if you, anyways, but back to Chairman Powell, he probably can't wait for his termination because guess what? He's gonna go be chairman of like Bridgewater.

Kara Swisher 16:29 No, I don't, I think he is, I think he's taking his... Listening to him, I think he's taking his job rather seriously.

Scott Galloway 16:35 Oh, I agree.

Kara Swisher 16:35 I think he thinks he's the bulwark against this lunatic.

Scott Galloway 16:38 Agree. Agree. And he's, he's, he came out, he's one of the few people, he's really the first kind of what I'll call leader to just in a thoughtful methodical way just stand up and say, "Okay, just in case you, you, you, you, you didn't believe every point of light from every economist or anyone who doesn't have their head up their assed and is trying to contort themselves into figuring out-"

Kara Swisher 16:59 To be part of their role off to something.

Scott Galloway 16:59 "... some way to justify this." The, the interpretive dance taking place across podcasters and officials trying to support these tariffs is almost-

Kara Swisher 17:08 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 17:08 ... it's, it's, it's literally hilarious.

Kara Swisher 17:10 It is. It is.

Scott Galloway 17:10 It's like modern art that doesn't make any fucking sense.

Kara Swisher 17:13 Yeah. I don't know for what-

Scott Galloway 17:14 Right?

Kara Swisher 17:14 ... and for what, 'cause, you know, I was, I was thinking as I was walking the other day, like when a lot, especially listening to that idiot Pam Bondi was like, "You know, if the Democrats win in two years you're all super fucked. Like super fucked, you have to win in two years." And of course they think they will through strong arming but if they, what a risk they're taking because they're gonna be investigated out the yingity-yang, and deservedly so. Anyway let's move on. Um, Trump's feud wi- go, Jerome Powell, we're on your side, we think you're behaving correctly. Uh, Trump's feud with Harvard is

Kara Swisher 17:44 escalating. Uh, the White House is asking the IRS to begin the process of revoking Harvard's tax-exempt ta- status. This is not an easy thing to do by the, by the way but the IRS, because it's under the control of Donald Trump, is reportedly considering it. The move comes after Harvard declined Trump's demands to scrap DEI programs and overall hiring, teaching, admissions. It made a ton of changes by the way, it has made a ton of changes, uh, that are-... probably laudable in many ways. Trump's initial response to Harvard's pushback was freezing more than $2 billion in federal funds for multi-year grants and contracts, apparently it wasn't enough. The Harvard President, Alan Garber, condemned the Trump Administration in an open letter earlier this week writing, "No government, regardless of which party is in power, should dictate what private universities can teach, whom they can admit and hire, and which areas of study and inquiry they can pursue." What do you think? Uh, Harvard fighting back here is really interesting. Let me, um, give some statistics. Um, uh, Harvard is gearing up for this fight financially. They issued $750 million of taxable bonds last week to shore up liquidity. It does have a $53 billion endowment but they're a restriction on how the money gets spent. Um, I see you're wearing a Harvard T-shirt. Uh, I can't believe m- uh, one of the jokes on, on Threads was, "I can't believe we like Harvard again." Like we're, we're, we're backing Harvard here, which is sort of the pinnacle of snooty elitism I think, for most people in general, um, but at the same time, this is a real shot across... But along with MIT, Princeton, um, Columbia, of course, caved. So, it's a really interesting situation happening here with these schools saying, "No, fuck, we've done enough," and showing their work. Now today, for people who don't know, the Trump Administration is trying to do this with no proof whatsoever, very similar to what they did with the im- the, with the migrants who they sent out of the country, with no proof on any... They don't give any proof to their allegations on almost anything they're doing, no matter what it, across the spectrum, and in this case, they filed something without any proof that Harvard did anything wrong. Um, so there's, there's several, and of course they're hurting funding of really important research that's going on. Scott?

Scott Galloway 19:48 Yeah, it took Donald Trump to get me to like Harvard.

Kara Swisher 19:51 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 19:52 Um, look-

Kara Swisher 19:52 You weren't? That T-shirt is handsome. Where'd you get that?

Scott Galloway 19:54 Um, my assistant got it for me because I, I don't know, I just wanted a Harvard T-shirt to wear around. Um, I was strolling around in a Canada T-shirt last week, and it was the, like, if you look at the m- the darkest moment of the last 100 years, there were some key attributes of a move to fascism. Uh, one, they started demonizing people and rounding them up. And it takes on a different complexion, but let's be clear, we have demonized illegal immigrants, of which we have turned a blind eye to because it's very profitable, and now we're rounding them up. We're taking them off the street and we're sending them to hellscapes. The other, one of the other key steps is you come for, quote unquote, "The academic institutions and the cultural elite," and you demonize them. And that's what's going on here. So, this is... You know, I'm not a fan of these institutions. I've even suggested their tax-free status be revoked if they have an endowment over a billion dollars and not growing their freshman class faster.

Kara Swisher 20:51 But you're about making bigger, becoming bigger.

Scott Galloway 20:54 Yeah, bigger.

Kara Swisher 20:54 Not to tell them what to do or how to run.

Scott Galloway 20:56 No, I don't, I don't care. They, they have the right to pick their curriculum, they have the right to pick their faculty, they have the right to talk about what they want to talk about on campus. I think if you're gonna have a law... And be clear folks, this has about as much to do with antisemitism as evangelicals liking Israel. They just see these (laughs) the, the, the notion of anti... Putting this under the banner of antisemitism, they're just using it as a vessel to go after an ideology and centers that typically, uh, traditionally and right now are not supportive of these types of policies. They... And there is, is it true that there's not enough intellectual diversity at these campuses? Sure. But when you start targeting individual universities and going after, quote unquote, "The cultural elite," under the auspices of antisemitism, it's just, it's not... A, it's not true, and B, it's morally corrupt. But more, I'll just go to the economic argument. The funding of research at universities has been the greatest investment in history. And that is... And I've said this before, that the most successful venture capitalists in history are middle class taxpayers who give money to the government and then the government funds research that private enterprise can't afford, to make these types of staggering investments.

Kara Swisher 22:15 Tuberculosis, for example.

Scott Galloway 22:17 Or, uh, uh, a, a catalog listing all things on the internet for academic research that ultimately ends up becoming a $2 trillion company called Google, or vaccines looking at how mRNA might, might be more effective than traditional vaccines, or diabetes medication. Most studies show... And then the vessel for this unbelievable investment are universities. Government funding of university research has proven to be one of the highest ROI public investments with economic impact studies suggesting returns of, get this Kara, somewhere between 20 at the low perc- at the low end, 20% and 60% annually on federal research dollars through job creation, new industries, and increased productivity in agriculture, genetically modified crops, food safety technologies, in energy, solar panels technology, advanced battery companies, natural-

Kara Swisher 23:10 We got researchers going all week. This is fantastic.

Scott Galloway 23:12 Natural, natural gas racking, LED lighting, advanced materials, Moderna and BioNTech, hundreds of drugs-

Kara Swisher 23:20 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 23:20 ... including Lyrica, Remicade I think it's called, we did that... The HIV protease inhibitors, the cocktail drugs came out of universities. Genentech was based on-

Kara Swisher 23:30 Stanford.

Scott Galloway 23:31 ... recombinant DNA technology from UCSF and S- Stanford. Google, smartphones, Cisco Systems. I mean these, this is the best... The, the US does actually a small number of things better than anyone but we do them really, really well.

Kara Swisher 23:46 And people think it's not enough because, like, they haven't been as involved in AI and it's been taken up by pri- What happens is private enterprise takes the juicy bits and the parts that are harder, the universities used to do, they used to do the combination.

Scott Galloway 23:57 That no one else will fund. They sometimes end up being unbelievable. Lithium ion batter- batteries.

Kara Swisher 24:02 Yeah. I- i- it's... You don't have to make this... This is fucking ridiculous.

Scott Galloway 24:04 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 24:04 And here it is, why do you think Harvard decided and fuck this shit... and Columbia didn't? Like think about being inside these comp- these, these places. Did anyone even give in?

Scott Galloway 24:14 Columbia has literally...... uh, has just this, uh, virus of a lack of leadership right now. I- I don't... I would argue that Columbia, between the response... I mean, there were two, there were two campuses with protests. President Linda Mills just handled it much differently than the folks at Columbia.

Kara Swisher 24:32 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 24:33 And I also think Columbia, quite frankly, for whatever reason, has been a flashpoint and has been, uh, you know, unfortunately targeted, whatever you want to call it. But I do think the reason that Harvard decided to stand up, I think they have more leadership, I think there's, they're, they're, they have more moral clarity, and quite frankly, it just really helps to have $54 billion endowment.

Kara Swisher 24:51 Yeah. Or 53, yeah.

Scott Galloway 24:52 All right. It's, it's this is... They can afford to do this. So... And it's also great, it's great for their brand. Harvard probably... This is probably one of the better brand moves of 2025, that is-

Kara Swisher 25:03 Yeah, 'cause they were sort of the, like, elite irritants and now they seem like freedom fighters.

Scott Galloway 25:08 Yeah, and the president of Harvard unable to condemn anti- you know, antisemitic speech as hate speech or whatever it is. You know, they, they, they've had their hits the last, the last six months. This is absolutely them standing up and doing the right thing even when it's hard.

Kara Swisher 25:25 So we'll see if the IRS will... if the IRS does this. It takes years. This is gonna go... By the way, everybody, again, it's gonna go through lots of courts with the IRS. They're gonna try to do this. It will be litigated and by that time, if Donald Trump has lost, the people who are doing this to Harvard (clears throat) at the IRS are going to be fucked royally at some point, um, if they, if they make these moves. They think that Donald Trump's gonna be in power forever and that may be but if he's not, you're taking a rather large risk that you're not... all of you aren't going to jail at some point for these behaviors.

Scott Galloway 25:58 What, what you're saying is so important and I've been talking to a lot of Democrats. I was on Governor Newsom's podcast yesterday. I think once- something that's missing from the Democratic Party, I- I don't believe that like this we go... when they go low, we go high. I think that's just like trying to capture social status. I absolutely think we need to get in the mud.

Kara Swisher 26:16 Right.

Scott Galloway 26:16 And I think there needs to be a Democrat who basically says, "I'm running for president. I'm gonna win and when I win, I am absolutely targeting... I'm going, I'm, I'm gonna have the SEC look into all trading on April the 9th. I'm gonna look at all illegal deportations. I'm gonna look at the unlawful seizure of Constitutional power. It's gonna be done to the letter of the law." But be clear (laughs) be clear, folks, if you're breaking laws and you're under the impression that you're no longer subject to the law, that might be true for the next-

Kara Swisher 26:50 Two years.

Scott Galloway 26:50 ... you know, 40 f- (laughs) you know, 44 months.

Kara Swisher 26:53 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 26:53 But in 44 months, the law is coming back. The- the sheriff is coming back.

Kara Swisher 26:59 Not just that, in two years. In two years if the Governorcrats win, this is just gonna be-

Scott Galloway 27:01 I like that even more. In 20 months.

Kara Swisher 27:03 Let me say, it also doesn't help people. It doesn't bring the price of eggs down. Th- this is what we're doing this tit for tat, and by the way, this tit for tat is gonna be required. They have to go down, um, and it's gonna waste everybody's time what they're doing here. They're gonna, they're gonna do this, they're gonna lose, and then they're going to jail but the- ugh. It's just, it's such a waste of time and effort and Harvard could be doing all kinds of really interesting things in research and ugh, anyway. This is- it's, it's the greatest brand change for Harvard, you're right. I think that's really an important thing and we'll see if Donald Trump could pull this off. Um, just 'cause he's st- going through stop signs right now doesn't mean he can keep doing it or there will not be consequences later. Um, okay, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, new details about Elon's creepy harem and legions of babies.

Kara Swisher 27:52 Scott, we're back and Elon Musk is trying to build an army of super babies with "no romance, just sperm." It feels like you would have said something like this, Scott. That's from an explosive report in The Wall Street Journal about the tactics he used to recruit and manage his offspring and their mothers. This romantic hero has even used social platform X to recruit willing wombs. Uh, here's what Jimmy Kimmel had to say about the latest revelations.

Narrator 28:15 It is believed that Elon has fathered at least 14 children and based on this photograph, he may have given birth to them too.

28:21 (laughs)

28:22 He's probably carrying a few around in his pouch like a kangaroo. Sources told The Journal they believe there could be more Mini-Musks out there, many more Mini-Musks. You've heard of Alien vs. Predator? Elon might be both of them.

Kara Swisher 28:38 So, another... other tidbits from The Journal's reporting, and by the way, I- I've spoken about this with so many reporters. I'm so glad that they're finally writing about this and not pretending it's just a silly, you know... an ex who's mad at him. This is really significantly weird stuff, and especially since he's in such a position of power. Musk believes population decline is massive threat and wants, uh, to make enough babies to "reach legion level before the apocalypse" and Musk urged former girlfriend Ashley St. Clair to... or I don't know what she is, I guess girlfriend, to give birth via C-section because he believes that vaginal births limit brain size. You remember I was arguing with him about this given I had a C-section. Scott, uh, I... where shall we go with this? Where should we go? (laughs) Where should we start? I mean, I'm thrilled that reporters are actually doing these things around the drugs, around these weird- weirdnesses around children. Um, it is really demented in a way that's really around the bend and it's fine if someone w- wants to have a lot of kids but this is a whole theory. I think the one person in this story that didn't get enough shit is Jared Birchall who works for him and is his facilitator. He's happens... they wrote about him being a Mormon and he- talking about him having such a stable family. Jared, if you're facilitating this, you don't get to hide behind your perfect family and your, you know, that you don't behave like this. You're just facilitating a rich person behaving badly and, um, and, and manipulating women, um, who are having kids. I mean, everything sounds so pathetic and at the very e- and I'll let you go on, Scott, but the children are really what really concerns me here, is that these kids are getting manipulated by Musk, uh, in, in terms of what they're gonna pay the mothers and this and that. Um, you don't need $15 million to do... to raise a kid or anything else, but the, the, the ethical implications of all of this, for all of you who are facilitating this for Musk, are rather deep and you should be ashamed of yourselves. Go ahead.

Scott Galloway 30:36 Look, there's a, there's a kernel of truth here, just calling balls and strikes. There was this fear, um, or this moral panic around a population explosion that we were gonna absorb, that our population-

Kara Swisher 30:49 Hmm.

Scott Galloway 30:49 ... was growing faster than the, than the earth's resources-

Kara Swisher 30:51 Yes, I know.

Scott Galloway 30:52 ... and we, it was gonna collapse under population, uh, growth. What's actually happened is that bomb has detonated but it's imploded, and that is, western nations, as they become wealthier and more educated, women decide that having a lot of kids is a bad deal for them, and also men, and basically birth rates go down. And evidence has shown that as population has gone up, poverty has gone down. It ends up that if you put 10, 10 new brains into society, you know, one is a problem, eight do just fine, and one might solve more problems than those 10 brains create.

Kara Swisher 31:25 Sure, absolutely.

Scott Galloway 31:26 So, population growth is actually really... It's a huge problem in Japan, in South Korea supposedly like only three or four people will have grandkids right now with these birth rates. Now, you can solve it with thoughtful immigration policies, and also restoring a tax code that doesn't rob from the young and give money to the old such that young people, should they decide to have kids, which 60% did 40 years ago at the age of 30, now it's 27%. So we can solve for this problem. I do believe that his basic theory is rooted in something that's true, like having more kids. Now having said that, having said that, if you look at what I believe, uh, maybe next to income inequality is the biggest thing threatening the US, it's extremism led by a group of young men who feel, are sequestered from society and becoming shitty to, uh, citizens. They're not attaching to work, they're not attaching to school, they're not attaching to relationships, they become prone to misogynistic content, they start blaming women and immigrants for their problems, they become less likely to believe in climate change. And w- if they don't have a relationship or work by the time they're 30, the levels of substance abuse and self-harm-

Kara Swisher 32:33 You get watch out below.

Scott Galloway 32:34 ... just go crazy.

Kara Swisher 32:35 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 32:35 Just go crazy. That is a hu-... Struggling young men in this country is a huge threat to our society.

Kara Swisher 32:42 I heard someone wrote a book about it out in November.

Scott Galloway 32:44 There you go. What... Now, if you were to reverse engineer it to the, the point of failure, where a boy with a lot of potential comes off the tracks, you might say, well, their prefrontal cortex doesn't mature as quickly. Well, the education system is biased against them. They're twice as likely to be suspended on a behavior adjusted... There's a lot of things-

Kara Swisher 33:03 It's bizarre.

Scott Galloway 33:03 ... they've been told for 40 years that they're the opp- the oppressor and they're starting to believe it. They have big tech trying to sequester them from society with gambling and porn. They have a lot of things going against them, but the number one point of failure to be reverse engineered to is when they, they lose a male role model. The worst thing, or one of the worst things you can do as a man, or let me put it this way, the best thing you can do is to stay involved in your kid's life. He's no- he's not around. And what's interesting is that when you have a single parent household, which he is creating, he's creating 14 single parent households. He doesn't have 14 kids, he has 14 single parent households.

Kara Swisher 33:46 More, more kids than that I think.

Scott Galloway 33:47 And what's interesting is that the daughters in single parent households have similar outcomes as dual parent households. And I'm not saying girls don't need their dad, but if you look at high school and college attendance and rates of self-harm, they're not material ad- materially different in single parent households and dual. It is an entirely different story for boys. And what it ends up is that while boys are physically stronger, they're mentally and emotionally much weaker. But him creating a series, uh, uh, uh, a, a cadre of children that don't have their dad around, even if he sends checks, that is bad for society.

Kara Swisher 34:26 But, but he also, Scott, two things. He uses checks as the control point, by the way. O- a- and secondly, it's n- he, I, listen, there's a pronatalist movement going on obviously, and he's part of this. They're not, h- h- he's talking about smarter people. And w- a- and that reads to me white people essentially, right? I don't think he thinks all people are equal in, in that-

Scott Galloway 34:46 Well, it's almost as if he'd give a Nazi salute.

Kara Swisher 34:49 Right, yes, exactly. Who knows, who does that?

Scott Galloway 34:51 Or that his dad started banging his stepdaughter?

Kara Swisher 34:55 I mean s-

Scott Galloway 34:55 Is that right?

Kara Swisher 34:56 ... the level of dyspho- n- his stepdaughter, I think. Yeah, correct. Um, but here's the thing. The, it's about white people, more white people. That is (laughs) or w- more people he considers smart, which is I think the s-

Scott Galloway 35:08 I hadn't even thought of that. Is he only procreating with other, with other white women? I guess that-

Kara Swisher 35:12 There's a, there's a, uh, someone he, uh, he didn't know online named Tiffany Fong I believe, so she's Asian. But that's, but s- but here's the thing. He thinks his genes are smart. So who isn't smart where there i- are population increases? Brown people. That's what they're, that is what he is doing here. So, I agree. Listen, nobody believes in kids more than me. Like, I, I, for, for, uh, like I'm not the Elon Musk of lesbians but-

Scott Galloway 35:36 But you're openly lesbian, Kasler, so it's y'all-

Kara Swisher 35:38 (laughs) I'm openly, you are openly straight.

Scott Galloway 35:39 ... you're openly lesbian, at least you could be a closeted-

Kara Swisher 35:42 You are an openly straight male pro- podcaster.

Scott Galloway 35:42 ... at least you could dr- drive your Subaru with black out windows.

Kara Swisher 35:46 Stop being so openly straight.

Scott Galloway 35:47 I- at, at least you could hide that German Shepherd.

Kara Swisher 35:49 And masturbating at all times and (laughs)

Scott Galloway 35:51 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 35:52 Anyway. Um, so he, he did, you know, but h- nonetheless, he thinks there are smart people and dumb people and all the smart people are not, you know, that's-

Scott Galloway 36:00 We're holding

Narrator 36:00 Okay.

Kara Swisher 36:00 ... this, this has a racial element to it, let's be clear.

Scott Galloway 36:02 But I just wanna go back to openly lesbian.

Kara Swisher 36:04 Okay.

Scott Galloway 36:04 Let me ask you this. Is it true that on all dates with lesbians they hug for three hours, cry, and then decide never to see each other again?

Kara Swisher 36:10 No.

Scott Galloway 36:10 Is that true?

Kara Swisher 36:11 No, that's not true.

Scott Galloway 36:11 Is that true? No, okay.

Kara Swisher 36:13 You would, me and my, you're coming to Lesbians Who Tech this year, and we're gonna-

Scott Galloway 36:16 I went, I went three years ago.

Kara Swisher 36:17 (laughs) You're doing it again, and this year we're gonna kill you in the original

Narrator 36:19 Okay.

Scott Galloway 36:19 I took my shirt off. I, and the whole audience was like, "Ugh."

Kara Swisher 36:22 You did. Uh-huh.

Scott Galloway 36:22 "I made the right choice."

Kara Swisher 36:23 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 36:23 Literally every woman in the crowd was like, "I did make the right choice seeing me without my shirt on."

Kara Swisher 36:27 Yes, it's true. We're gonna have you back though.

Scott Galloway 36:28 I was the second straight guy to ever be on the stage. First was Marc Benioff.

Kara Swisher 36:31 E- anyway. Elon, you are a sick puppy. I have to tell you, one sick puppy. And I feel bad for these women, I feel bad for these kids. And the story was terrific. The, the journal, the j- that the journal's doing it, um, is amazing. I have to say, I told...... oh, a half a dozen top reporters about this Ashley St. Clair, uh, t- to like... This was really weird what was happening and nobody followed it and the Journal did a really good job. I have to s- I have to give them credit. It is not prurient, it's, they, it's a really (laughs) , a- along with their board coverage of how they party with him, along with, um, his strange behaviors, I think the Journal is doing amazing journalism here, as is Christian Grind of The New York Times who was previously with the Journal.

Scott Galloway 37:12 But, I think it's important though that we bring this back to me.

Kara Swisher 37:15 Okay. All right.

Scott Galloway 37:16 Um, so I have more kids likely, substantially more kids than Elon Musk. You know why?

Kara Swisher 37:23 Oh, right, 'cause you gave... We know this. We know this. (laughs) . We've talked about this. Sperm donor.

Scott Galloway 37:27 Yeah, I could get 40 bucks a shot, uh, 'cause I was a "athlete" at UCLA.

Kara Swisher 37:32 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 37:32 Anyways, I got called back four times a week for a full year.

Kara Swisher 37:36 Oh, so you must have dozens of -

Scott Galloway 37:37 And I couldn't figure it out, 'cause the two guys I went with-

Kara Swisher 37:40 (gasps) .

Scott Galloway 37:40 ... were... The two guys I went with were literally blonde gods. They were-

Kara Swisher 37:44 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 37:44 O- they were water polo players who went to the Olympics. They were smarter than me. These guys were specimens.

Kara Swisher 37:49 Jewish. You've said this, Scott.

Scott Galloway 37:50 That's right. And I said, "Why-"

Kara Swisher 37:52 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 37:52 "... do I have the golden seed here?"

Kara Swisher 37:54 Yeah. You don't have the golden seed.

Scott Galloway 37:54 And they said, "You have the two things, baby." My man gravy is like literally, it's like NVIDIA chips. Anyways, the two things, the reason why my sperm was literally an Hermes bag, I was the Hermes of sperm, was two things. What are the two things that people in West LA, parents want in their sperm?

Kara Swisher 38:13 Tall Jewish babies.

Scott Galloway 38:14 Tall and Jewish.

Kara Swisher 38:16 Tall and Jewish.

Scott Galloway 38:16 I had the peanut butter and chocolate-

Kara Swisher 38:17 Let me just say-

Scott Galloway 38:17 ... of sperm donation.

Kara Swisher 38:18 ... there are Scott Galloways all over Southern California right now.

Scott Galloway 38:21 Can you imagine how many receding hairlines are out there right now? (laughs)

Kara Swisher 38:24 I don't even wanna know. I don't even wanna know. I don't even wanna know. I don't even...

Scott Galloway 38:27 Ugh.

Kara Swisher 38:27 Thank God not my children. Anyway, um, here's an idea-

Scott Galloway 38:30 How many angry, depressed people... They didn't test me for that shit.

Kara Swisher 38:33 All right. That, I, you know, I didn't pick someone 'cause they have a history of depression in this family. Anyway, here's an idea.

Scott Galloway 38:38 Hmm, it's a good idea.

Kara Swisher 38:38 There's some hot new real estate about, uh, 120 light years from Earth where Elon could go. Researchers announced on Tuesday that they've discovered a massive planet known as K2-18b, I'm gonna call it Galloway, um-

Scott Galloway 38:51 Thank you.

Kara Swisher 38:51 ... whose atmosphere suggests the possible presence of living organisms. It's really hot and wet. That's really pretty much what's happening.

Scott Galloway 38:57 Don't say anything. Don't say anything.

Kara Swisher 38:58 I know. Don't say anything. Anyway, um,

Kara Swisher 39:01 just really quickly, NVIDIA says it will start producing AI supercomputers manufactured entirely in the US. The announcement comes conveniently after-

Scott Galloway 39:08 Mm, yeah.

Kara Swisher 39:08 ... reports of upcoming tariffs. Uh, we'll see. The company plans to use $500 billion of infrastructure in the US via manufacturing partners over the next year. They all say 500 billion. They, i- Apple did this. They've commissioned over one million square feet of manufacturing space to build chips in Arizona. They're working with Foxconn and Taiwan's Wistron on additional plants in Texas, of course. Um, and then Trump said, "All the necessary permits will be expedited and delivered." They're trying to appease Trump, or, or I'm sure he'll still screw them on tariffs. Jensen Huang said, made a surprise visit to Beijing to meet with Chinese trade officials. This follows NVIDIA's revealing on Wednesday it's taking a $5.5 billion hit thanks to new US restrictions on the exports of its H20 chips to China. Uh, the shares have been plunging. Very quickly, thoughts on the planet or NVIDIA?

Scott Galloway 39:56 N- n- no- uh, nothing other than that this, all of this stuff announcing investment is performative thinking. He's an idiot. If we just repackage existing investments, he'll go for it-

Kara Swisher 40:05 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 40:05 ... and he'll potentially leave us alone. And the-

Kara Swisher 40:08 Exactly.

Scott Galloway 40:08 ... stocks are now trading based on Tr- the prediction markets of the Mad King.

Kara Swisher 40:12 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 40:12 I mean, this is just not the way (laughs) to run an economy.

Kara Swisher 40:14 They, and they weren't gonna do this before. And, you know, just this j- you can force manufacturing back in the US but it will have a price later, um, if it's not economic. That's just the way it goes unfortunately. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Zuck taking the stand and how much he was willing to pay and, uh, to get the antitrust case to go away.

Kara Swisher 40:35 Scott, we're back with more headlines. There's lots going on. Mark Zuckerberg has taken the witness stand for three days in Meta's antitrust trial this week over its acquisition of Instagram and WhatsApp. Also, Sheryl Sandberg was also on the stand. If the FTC wins, Meta could be forced to sell off the apps. Some highlights. Years before, the FTC sued Meta under the Trump administration. Zuckerberg considered having Instagram be its own company to avoid antitrust issues. Meta tried to buy Snapchat for $6 billion, which actually I think I broke that story at the time. He thinks it would have been bigger now if he'd accepted the offer. Zuckerberg had... Of course, it then copied Snap- everything Snapchat did. And s- it's, they, it's buy or bury really, and bury was the choice that unfortunately Snapchat had to face. Zuckerberg once had a crazy idea to wipe out all Facebook users' friends, uh, to start again. The Meta CEO called TikTok the highest competitive threat for Facebook and Meta. If it were up to Zuckerberg, this trial never would have happened. Too bad, Mark. He offered, uh, the FTC $450 million, which is laughable. Um, later upping the amount to $1 billion, but the offer was well below the $30 billion the FTC wanted. This is under, uh, its current, um, chair, Andrew Ferguson. Oh, oh, s- you got a set there, Ferguson. Uh, Zuckerberg reportedly felt confident President Trump would back him. Uh, obviously he didn't and allowed it to go forward. Um, it's not the strongest cases that we've talked about. And this idea of who its competitor is. In, in the, in the then, it's a strong case. In the now, it's not as strong a case and everybody has shifted from social media to entertainment in a lot of ways. Social media in the, with the stress on media, not on social. Um, so w- g- give me... Uh, is there... Th- this ass kissing doesn't work. Give me one of your crazy ideas, Scott, here on this trial.

Scott Galloway 42:20 Well, I, I just think that if they're... So there's different remedies. One is a fine, which it looks like they're pursuing right now if they're found guilty of monopolistic behavior.

Kara Swisher 42:29 And certain consent decrees also along with the fine, by the way.

Scott Galloway 42:33 N- nine out of ten people in the world outside of China are on a Meta app. Um, if not, I think it's either every day or every week. And they have 70% share of social media. Now that alone isn't...... isn't illegal. What's illegal is if you're using that 7%, 70% share to, uh, deploy monopoly pricing that's bad for consumers. And I would argue, or engage in anti-competitive behavior, and if you look at the notes that have come out in discovery, a big justification for acquiring Instagram is he said, "We need to neutralize a competitor." That right there, that statement, that's illegal.

Kara Swisher 43:09 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 43:09 That, you're not allowed to-

Kara Swisher 43:10 It's enough.

Scott Galloway 43:10 ... acquire a company to neutralize a competitor. You're not allowed to do acqui-kills.

Kara Swisher 43:14 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 43:14 In addition, what, I always like to appeal to people's greed glands on this, if they were forced as a remedy to spin Instagram-

Kara Swisher 43:21 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 43:21 ... you know who wins here?

Kara Swisher 43:21 And WhatsApp, and WhatsApp too.

Scott Galloway 43:23 And WhatsApp. You know who wins here? Shareholders.

Kara Swisher 43:25 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 43:25 Because the company right now, it trades at a really healthy multiple of 7.7X times revenues. Instagram on its own, I think would trade at 15 to 20 times revenues. Instagram, just to give you, you were at my birthday in Scotland, Scotland is overrun-

Kara Swisher 43:39 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 43:40 ... because a bunch of Instagrammers went there and went crazy talking about Scotland two summers ago. Instagram now dictates global tourism patterns.

Kara Swisher 43:50 It does. You see it happen in Los Angeles-

Scott Galloway 43:52 As in-

Kara Swisher 43:52 ... and parts of n- your neighborhood. People take a picture in front of-

Scott Galloway 43:55 Oh, if we went to my window right now-

Kara Swisher 43:58 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 43:58 ... we would see three or four I- Asian women-

Kara Swisher 44:02 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 44:02 ... with their Hermes bags, in my, on my cobblestone street, taking pictures of one another.

Kara Swisher 44:07 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 44:07 It is literally, it is-

Kara Swisher 44:09 There's one area where they're all taking pictures.

Scott Galloway 44:10 You talk about commerce, you talk about, I mean, that Instagram is an independent company.

Kara Swisher 44:16 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 44:16 Everyone would want to own that stock.

Kara Swisher 44:18 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 44:18 So shareholders would do better.

Kara Swisher 44:19 I would buy that stock.

Scott Galloway 44:20 In addition, the competition here would lower rents. And specifically, I've argued that the rents that have gone up here are, the biggest rent increase has been non-economic. Think about the rents that parents have had to pay because of the monopoly control of Meta. I- so the fact that they wouldn't compete and coordinate with core Facebook, the fact that WhatsApp would probably be the largest telco in the world, and rather than being a vessel for finding data for better targeting for Fa- their core platform Facebook or Instagram, they would have to figure out a way just to be the largest telco and start charging money. I think share... If they announced they were breaking up these companies, I would buy Meta stock, because I think that ultimately shareholders would win. More tax revenue. By the way, employees win because there's more companies trying to rent your labor. Uh, employees win, tax revenue, shareholders win. The only person that doesn't win is the person who wants to sit on the iron throne of all seven realms, not just Westeros. But I- I- I've always thought the be- the two best things you could do to oxygenate the global economy are if China and the US kissed and made up. We have IP, they have manufacturing, enough already, let's lower everyone's costs by getting along again. And obviously President Trump does not get that. And then the second biggest way to oxygenate and unleash the global economy would be to take Amazon, Apple, Facebook and Meta, and go from four companies to 15.

Kara Swisher 45:43 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 45:43 It would create, it would unleash so much competition-

Kara Swisher 45:46 It would actually, you're absolutely-

Scott Galloway 45:46 ... and innovation.

Kara Swisher 45:47 And innovation. New things, innovation, innovate, like that's the thing, like everyone's like going on about Tesla. I'm like, "Their car sucks and it's not innovative." Did- did you see the Japanese stuff that's coming out, their EVs? They're so adorable and fantastic. I just keep thinking, why didn't any, uh, why didn't Tesla do this? Like why didn't... They had the... Anyway, well, that's another... 'Cause he's having legions of babies and taking ketamine apparently, but, and running the government into the ground. Um, but you're right. You're absolutely right. We'll see what happens here. People find this to be a very weak case though, because the- the limits of who they're... It doesn't address what's happening now, which is intense competition in this, in this social media space. Again, as I said, emphasis on media. He's trying to get away from the social part of it, by the way, which is really interesting, because people aren't doing what Facebook was originally intended for anymore. Now they're like consuming just like they did television. It's really, there has been a shift, don't you think? Don't you find you're using social media for consumption more than declaration or friendship now?

Scott Galloway 46:49 I gotta be honest, I'm addicted to both Instagram and to TikTok. And I've now found-

Kara Swisher 46:53 But for consumption? You like looking at it, right?

Scott Galloway 46:57 Well, honestly, it's now my news source.

Kara Swisher 47:00 Yeah, that's what I mean.

Scott Galloway 47:00 I get really good... I, uh, TikTok has figured out I want to see an economist talking about interest rates or a woman talking about social issues that forgot to put her bra on.

Kara Swisher 47:10 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 47:10 Those are the two, that's how my feed, that's how my feed is-

Kara Swisher 47:13 What about if it's economists putting his bra on?

Scott Galloway 47:15 And then (laughs) ... That's good. That's good.

Kara Swisher 47:19 (laughs) His bra on. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 47:20 Or, or, uh, chiropractors aggressively adjusting people.

Kara Swisher 47:25 Oh, I love that.

Scott Galloway 47:25 Or of course... It's amazing, like, "Oh my God, she has neck pain. Oh my God, what is he gonna do?"

Kara Swisher 47:30 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 47:30 And then all of a sudden-

Kara Swisher 47:30 It's always like... (laughs)

Scott Galloway 47:31 ... you hear, "Celery," and she's like, "I can walk again. I can walk again." (laughs)

Kara Swisher 47:35 I love that. Oh my God. They're so sick.

Scott Galloway 47:37 And I see Great Danes. They like no-

Kara Swisher 47:39 They are sick people.

Scott Galloway 47:40 They, they have figured out I love Great Danes. I could watch Great Danes all day.

Kara Swisher 47:43 I, I do too.

Scott Galloway 47:44 And my fav... Also, have you seen the new ones where (laughs) some chef-

Kara Swisher 47:47 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 47:47 ... will take like a $300 Chateaubriand-

Kara Swisher 47:50 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 47:50 ... and line up three dogs at a table-

Kara Swisher 47:53 What?

Scott Galloway 47:53 ... and then show them the Chateaubriand. And then literally the chef will, will cook it in front of them and get in front of them and then slice it for them and create some amazing sauce. And then just feed these three pu- pit bulls-

Kara Swisher 48:05 What?

Scott Galloway 48:05 ... this amazing Chateaubriand.

Kara Swisher 48:07 Oh my, that, that, that's end times. That's, that's worse than the okay. It's, yeah. It's

Narrator 48:09 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 48:09 It is, uh, may- maybe it's late stage capitalism, but it sure is entertaining.

Kara Swisher 48:12 Oh, wow. That's really...

Scott Galloway 48:13 Oh my gosh.

Kara Swisher 48:14 I watch a, I do on Threads a thing called, uh, Food Porn, which I love, which is they just cook shit all over the place. I love cooking videos. Anyway, we gotta get back to the important things.

Scott Galloway 48:22 Here we go.

Kara Swisher 48:23 I- I'm not sure where this s- this case is going, but it sure has a lot of cool emails, um, of them acting like assholes, all of them. Like, "We're gonna kill this company. We're gonna do this." This is exactly how they talk in reality and it's just very e- entertaining to... But one of the things that's coming out of it is how much Mark Zuckerberg doesn't like his actual business, the social part of social media. That's been really interesting to me.

Scott Galloway 48:44 There was a big announcement this week. I think the biggest story that people haven't been talking about...... um, is OpenAI deciding they might get into social.

Kara Swisher 48:52 Yeah. We were gonna talk about that-

Scott Galloway 48:54 Okay.

Kara Swisher 48:54 ... next week. We're gonna talk about, 'cause we, we, we'll see. They're, I think they're just tweaking. Th-they, th-they love to tweak, everyone. But yes, they could do that, too. Again, consumption, consumption of videos. That's where they're gonna go, um, in the creation and the creativity of people with this stuff. Um,

Kara Swisher 49:08 this is just in, by the way. A federal judge has ruled that Google did act illegally to maintain a monopoly in online advertising technology. The judge said in a ruling that Google had broken the law to build its dominance. No shit, Sherlock. The Justice Department and a group of states had sued Google, arguing that its monopoly in ad technology allowed the company to charge higher prices and take a bigger portion of the sale. Yes, 'cause they're on both sides of the deal, everybody. Remember, a federal judge ruled in August, a separate federal judge, that the company had a monopoly in online search. He is now considering a request by the Justice Department to break the company up, spin parts off. Um, Google's, I, this is a much stronger case, and it is so obvious, the dominance of Google in both advertising and search, and their behaviors around this. Um, uh, it's really interesting. And of course, Sundar was at the inauguration. It doesn't seem to be helping. Now, a lot of these cases were started in the previous Trump administration. Again, I cannot underscore this. Um, so thoughts, thoughts on this one? This one's stronger, and, and they've lost. They've clearly lost. They, this will go on. They will appeal, but they've lost again, once again.

Scott Galloway 50:13 I, like I said, I just, uh, I think everybody wins if these companies start to... I think their share price goes up. I, I, I don't know what to say other than that, although I- I was more cynical about antitrust under a Trump administration. And Jonathan Kanter, who knows a lot more about this than me-

Kara Swisher 50:28 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 50:28 ... sent me straight, and said, "You're underestimating some of the people who are at Justice and the FTC."

Kara Swisher 50:33 Yeah. The person who replaced him, his very well... Gail, I think it's Sla- Sla- Slaughter or Slater, um, is very well-respected. She's a J.D. Vance person, from the J.D. Vance side of the aisle, who has been very antitrust-focused. Um, great respect for people, like in terms of they understand... Here's the thing, everybody. Less competition, less innovation, higher prices, shittier products. I, I, I... That's the way it goes, and the fact that these company- And by the way, the, the side effects of both these companies for their dominance in both social media and advertising and search, which is linked to ad, they're all linked to advertising, is the death of regular media. They have, two of these two companies have run over... Now look, media, old media has done a lot of things to kill itself, but this is not... The, the, the hollowing out of the business model by these companies using these tactics has been right in there to really hurt these companies. So, that's another, that's another, uh, you know, deleterious effect of these things, so.

Scott Galloway 51:32 There you go.

Kara Swisher 51:33 There you go. Anyway, we'll be right back and we'll get to predictions.

Kara Swisher 51:37 Okay Scott, let's hear a prediction. What's a prediction from you?

Scott Galloway 51:41 Um-

Kara Swisher 51:41 Besides children of Scott all over Southern California.

Scott Galloway 51:44 (laughs) You might not get the point.

Kara Swisher 51:45 Are you creating a legion of babies?

Scott Galloway 51:47 Well, you know you can-

Kara Swisher 51:48 Just got babies.

Scott Galloway 51:48 There's now a website, if you go to it, you can-

Kara Swisher 51:51 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 51:51 ... type in your name and say, "This was the clinic-"

Kara Swisher 51:53 Yep.

Scott Galloway 51:53 "... I donated." And-

Kara Swisher 51:54 Yes, I know all about it.

Scott Galloway 51:55 And they send you a certified, I think certified mail, and if you sign it, an email goes out to all your biological children saying-

Kara Swisher 52:01 Did you do it?

Scott Galloway 52:01 ... "This is your biological father." I would do it if you could gate it, and you can't. Uh, and, and the problem is, you don't know if it's-

Kara Swisher 52:08 Oh, I'm absolutely gonna do this now, so I can meet all of Scott's children. Go-

Scott Galloway 52:11 Well that's why I don't do 23andMe, 'cause-

Kara Swisher 52:13 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 52:13 ... people get figured out. But I don't know-

Kara Swisher 52:14 I'll just delete my data from that.

Scott Galloway 52:14 ... if I have two kids or 2,000, 'cause it wasn't regulated back then. So-

Kara Swisher 52:18 They let you have like hundreds of kids.

Scott Galloway 52:20 Well-

Kara Swisher 52:20 You remember the Vince Vaughn movie, where he had hundreds of kids?

Scott Galloway 52:22 Yeah, I told you this. My mom made me stop, because she said, she said, "I put my..." I'm not exaggerating. I paid for my junior year at UCLA doing this.

Kara Swisher 52:30 I wonder how many kids you have.

Scott Galloway 52:31 And, and my mom said, "You need to stop." And her rationale was, "What if your son ends up marrying your daughter?"

Kara Swisher 52:36 Oh my God, that's the typical fear thing, the fear thing.

Scott Galloway 52:39 I know, but anyways-

Kara Swisher 52:40 That's probably happened a hundred times.

Scott Galloway 52:40 ... she had a real point. She's like, "You're gonna grow up in LA and you're gonna come, and you're gonna meet..." Anyways-

Kara Swisher 52:45 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 52:45 ... but it's, it's a weird, it's a weird thought. I've thought about maybe like, I don't know, leaving them some money when I die or something like that.

Kara Swisher 52:54 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 52:54 But anyways.

Kara Swisher 52:55 I, I, I know, I've used those sites because I, I saw other, how many other kids my sons are related to, um, through that, they had met-

Scott Galloway 53:02 Make for a fun party.

Kara Swisher 53:03 Yeah, they had met two of their sisters.

Scott Galloway 53:04 Think about what an awesome party I would throw-

Kara Swisher 53:06 They had met them-

Scott Galloway 53:07 ... for 200 38-year-olds that all sort of look like me.

Kara Swisher 53:09 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 53:09 That would be a fun party, wouldn't it?

Kara Swisher 53:11 I feel like I wanna go find all your children (laughs) .

Scott Galloway 53:14 (laughs) And apologize and give them therapy?

Kara Swisher 53:16 I'm gonna make a documentary, Searching for Scott. 30-

Scott Galloway 53:18 Oh, let's start a podcast network!

Kara Swisher 53:19 Yes, let's start a Vox Media podca- like, the Scott Galloway-

Scott Galloway 53:22 With, with just our children (laughs) . Why is that? Oh my God, that's so fucked up.

Kara Swisher 53:27 I know, it's so fucked up. But I love it.

Scott Galloway 53:28 That's so fucked up.

Kara Swisher 53:28 Hey, let's hear a prediction (laughs) .

Scott Galloway 53:29 Anyways, sorry.

Kara Swisher 53:30 I predict this will be disastrous.

Scott Galloway 53:32 Um-

Kara Swisher 53:32 And then they could marry all of Elon Musk's kids. Anyway, sorry. Go, um, stop, I'll stop. All right.

Scott Galloway 53:37 So anyways, the-

Kara Swisher 53:38 Okay. Prediction.

Scott Galloway 53:40 The, I think, my prediction is the following, Kara. I think the worm has turned.

Kara Swisher 53:44 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 53:44 I think that, my sense is that the things that have kept Republicans quiet 'cause of their dear leader has more power in this cult that, where he can get, vote them out of office. The fear factor of saying, "I'll weaponize the DOJ against my enemies."

Kara Swisher 53:59 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 54:00 Donald Trump, I'm not comparing him to Hitler, but Hitler's biggest mistake that reshaped the world was he decided to open a second front in the war and he declared war on Russia. That is, we probably would've had to come to some sort of agreement with him where he got Europe and Britain got the empire or whatever. But that is what kind of lost the war, was in addition to British brains, Russian blood, and American brawn. Russian blood, they, they sacrificed 20 million people, and they were allies at the beginning of the war. Trump has decided to fight everyone all at once (laughs) . He's not, he's not going after targeted tariffs against, against China or figuring out if there's certain tariffs that, that on, on dairy that are not reciprocal or asymmetric. He's not saying to the EU...... we need, we need you to pay more for our NATO b- He's just declared war on everyone all at once and it is literally the only... We had to ally with dozens of countries to get Hussein out of Kuwait, but this guy's under the impression he can declare war on everyone.

Guest commentator 55:09 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 55:09 And-

Guest commentator 55:10 He d- does feel like declare war on everyone, doesn't he?

Scott Galloway 55:12 Everyone, all at once, whether it's Harvard or Kazakhstan. He's just declared war on everyone.

Guest commentator 55:18 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 55:18 And they're gonna be very creative-

Guest commentator 55:20 I wonder if he's getting any. Do-

Scott Galloway 55:20 ... and strike back. They're just gonna be very creative and strike back.

Guest commentator 55:24 That's what it feels like. Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 55:24 Anyways, the, I think the worm has turned. I think that so many public company CEOs wake up in the morning and say, "Hello, Mr. President." That think some, some day they're gonna be drafted because of their incredible leadership skills, to run for President. Let me save you three classes at a business school on ethics, um, leadership, and sustainability. Ethics is like think about what the right thing is. Leadership is do the right thing even when it's really hard. And sustainability is doing the right thing when it's really hard, you might actually make money. There, you don't need to take those three classes. You're about to see, I believe, some very high profile business leaders and Republicans come out in the next week or two and say, "This is just bad." And they're gonna get a ton of attention. Not one, I don't, I, I can't think of a Fortune 500 CEO who has, who has spoken out. I can't think of a Republican who has really taken a stand here. And the person I am reminded of is a guy named Martin Niemöller.

Guest commentator 56:22 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 56:22 And he was essentially, uh-

Guest commentator 56:24 Yeah. Right.

Scott Galloway 56:24 ... he was a prominent Lutheran pastor in Germany in the '20s and early '30s. He sympathized-

Guest commentator 56:29 They Came For Me, right? That guy.

Scott Galloway 56:30 That's exactly right. Very well, well done. He sympathized with many Nazi ideas and supported radically right-wing political movements. But after Hitler came to power in '33, Niemöller became an outspoken critic of Hitler's interference in the Protestant church. He spent the last eight years of Nazi rule, uh, in prisons and concentration camps. And Niemöller is perhaps best remembered for his post-war statement which bekin- which begins, "First they came for the socialists and I did not speak out." And his full quote is, "First they came for the socialists and I did not speak out because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me." I mean, that is really powerful. And what I would argue, I have a lot of faith in America over the medium and the long-term. We get it wrong in the short-term a lot, but over the medium and long-term we demonstrate tremendous generosity and leadership. And I think we're at a point where people realizing that, okay, a guy with the wrong tattoo who gets basically rounded up, uh, university or the cultural elite that are targeted under bullshit narratives of antisemitism coming after, uh, weaponizing the DOJ against your political enemies. I think the school is about to rise up against the bullies. I think-

Guest commentator 57:55 Yeah. Uh, although-

Scott Galloway 57:55 ... we are-

Guest commentator 57:56 ... Scott, in the short-term, like Chris Krebs had to leave his busi- has to leave his company because he got targeted by Trump and he's fighting it.

Scott Galloway 58:02 Oh, I, I, there's been, uh, Kara, there's been-

Guest commentator 58:04 How big a damage is-

Scott Galloway 58:05 ... there's been uncalculable economic and moral damage here, and loss of brand equity and a loss of moral authority. I don't, I'm not in any way assuming this will repair everything. What I'm suggesting is the following. There is now... It is so obvious how damaging this is. Republicans showing up to (laughs) their town halls and literally getting just absolutely ravaged.

Guest commentator 58:27 You know, those, that AOC thing continues, although there's so much hostility towards her. It's really fascinating, from some Democrats. And it's-

Scott Galloway 58:33 But I think you're going to see in the next one or two weeks a cadre of Fortune 500 CEOs, Republicans stand up, business leaders stand up and say, "Okay, enough already. While you all claim he's playing 4D chess, at this point we're worried he's gonna start eating the pieces. This guy is making the stupidest decisions and the first person... I, I'm, I love Nike, I do, used to do a lot of work with Nike. I'm, I'm, I'm gonna call, I don't know if, if they'll call me back. I'm gonna call Elliott Hill, the CEO, today. The biggest-

Guest commentator 59:03 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 59:03 ... opportunity right now in the commercial consumer world is for the CEO to weaponize their creativity and their agency and to come out against this bullshit-

Guest commentator 59:11 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 59:11 ... and say, "This is anti-American. This is not part of our values. This is not what it means to be an American."

Guest commentator 59:16 Yeah. Same thing.

Scott Galloway 59:17 Someone-

Guest commentator 59:17 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 59:18 Someone in the Fortune 500 is gonna come out and say, "This is bullshit." And guess what? The people who actually have the money to buy this shit-

Guest commentator 59:26 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 59:26 ... are gonna think, "You know what? I like the swoosh again."

Guest commentator 59:29 I, I like your prediction. I hope it's true. I've heard worse.

Scott Galloway 59:31 They made Harvard... He's made Harvard likable again.

Guest commentator 59:34 Yeah. And, uh, you know, interesting, Josh Shapiro who got attacked on Passover, his, his house, who's the governor of Pennsylvania, Trump has yet to call him, which is really an astonishing thing. Of course, if it was a, if there was a Tesla in the, in the driveway, he certainly would call it terrorism. Um, but of course he's not-

Scott Galloway 59:49 Yeah. He wanted to label people throwing shit at Teslas an act of domestic terrorism.

Guest commentator 59:54 Also Pam Bond again. Again, her heinous-

Scott Galloway 59:55 But the governor of Pennsylvania? Someone tries to burn his house down with him in it-

Guest commentator 1:00:00 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:00:00 ... on, during Passover.

Guest commentator 1:00:02 Wow.

Scott Galloway 1:00:02 I mean, (laughs) but, but oh, we're just gonna keep that, we're just gonna ignore that.

Guest commentator 1:00:06 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:00:06 Anyways, I've, I like to think that all of a sudden a bunch of leaders in the Republican Party-

Guest commentator 1:00:11 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:00:12 ... and in the business world are reaching down and finding these spherical things called testicles-

Guest commentator 1:00:16 I, I don't know.

Scott Galloway 1:00:17 ... because-

Guest commentator 1:00:17 Marco Rubio keeps making stupid arguments there trying to say this guy-

Scott Galloway 1:00:20 Yeah, but he's in the administration.

Guest commentator 1:00:21 ... this guy who's in El Salvador is M13-

Scott Galloway 1:00:24 Oh, no, no, they're, they're, they're-

Guest commentator 1:00:24 ... with no proof.

Scott Galloway 1:00:25 People in the administration are, they're, they're, they've just, they've signed up for the Dear Leader pact. They're in. They're in the cult. They're like, "Okay, maybe, maybe I disagree-"

Guest commentator 1:00:33 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:00:33 "... with Jim Jones, but I came down to Guyana. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid."

Guest commentator 1:00:36 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:00:36 I'm talking about Fortune 500 CEOs and I'm talking about even some r- some Republican congresspeople. This has gotten so out of control and, and they're gonna do it outta greed. The first consumer brand that stands up and says, "I am standing up to this," the first Republican-

Guest commentator 1:00:54 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:00:54 ... that stands up and says, "Okay, come for me. This is insane," especially in a district where, like, in Kentucky where Canada being more strategic is like, "No, let's just not do blanket tariffs. Let's go after red states."

Guest commentator 1:01:06 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:01:07 I mean, this, I do think... Anyway, my long-winded way of saying-

Guest commentator 1:01:11 We'll s- all right.

Scott Galloway 1:01:11 M- my prediction is the worm has turned and we're gonna see people who supposedly were part of the cult, the Fortune 500 which has been visibly absent, they're gonna remember that's gonna, uh, uh, this guy's quote. You know, "First they came...First they came for the socialists, right? Okay. Be clear folks, everyone could get this knock on the door, and I do think the worm has turned. I think there is economic incentive now to come out against this shit. And you know who provided cloud cover for it? Chairman Powell.

Kara Swisher 1:01:43 Mm. Yes, he does. But we'll see, we'll see. I, from your mouth to all your-

Scott Galloway 1:01:47 You're cynical, you know, or you don't think, you're skeptical.

Kara Swisher 1:01:48 I don't know. I don't, I think it'll take longer than you think, it'll be more damaging. I think he will have damaged and wrecked people's lives and, in the process.

Scott Galloway 1:01:55 Oh, I think that's already happened.

Kara Swisher 1:01:56 Yeah. I think he's gonna keep doing it. I think un- until, until h- the mid-terms, and if the Democrats win, he's in for a world of pain for the rest of his life.

Scott Galloway 1:02:05 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 1:02:05 Um, elsewhere in the Scott and Kara Universe, uh, Scott, you just had a big interview with Canada's new Prime Minister, Mark Carney, very nice get. You chatted about a lot of things, including Canada's role in changing world, and whether the U.S., uh, Canada relationship can be fixed as trade tensions rise. Obviously, Scott is a particular friend of Canada and they love us there. Um, let's listen to a clip.

Guest commentator 1:02:25 You know, from a Canadian perspective, we are willing to take the price to restructure our economy in a different direction. It's been such a sense of, uh, I mean, the word that's used is betrayal. So, you know, we signed a deal, we've had this partnership, we, uh, observe it in good faith, we set up businesses, we, you know, we know lots of American, we like Americans, we listen to American podcasts, and all of a sudden, you know, we get these, uh, you know, these attacks, is which is the way these, this is viewed, is, okay, so it's gonna cost us for a period of time, uh, and we'll build out and, uh, build with others.

Kara Swisher 1:03:01 What a nice voice he has. So clean.

Scott Galloway 1:03:03 He's a very impressive guy.

Kara Swisher 1:03:04 He is.

Scott Galloway 1:03:04 He was, he was asked to be again, the first non-Brit to head the Bank of England.

Kara Swisher 1:03:08 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:03:08 I asked him, I thought the nicest part of the podcast-

Kara Swisher 1:03:10 Because I think, he's a banker, right?

Scott Galloway 1:03:10 ... I asked him in the lightning round, I said, "If you could go back and speak to someone who's not with us anymore, who would it be and what would you say?" And he paused and he said, "My dad, and I would tell him I love him."

Kara Swisher 1:03:20 Oh, wow.

Scott Galloway 1:03:21 It was really a nice moment.

Kara Swisher 1:03:22 Oh, Scott, you probably weeped, didn't you?

Scott Galloway 1:03:23 Oh, my God. Well, he got emotional, it made me feel very emotional.

Kara Swisher 1:03:26 Oh, very nice.

Scott Galloway 1:03:27 He's a really ... And by the way-

Kara Swisher 1:03:28 He's an impressive ... By the way, incredible turnaround in Canada for the Liberals. Like, this, this, this weird little Conservative was gonna win, and now he looks like he's gonna lose.

Scott Galloway 1:03:35 You know who ... But I mean-

Kara Swisher 1:03:37 Pierre Poiovoire, wa-wa-wa-wa.

Scott Galloway 1:03:38 Tr- Trump, Trump is, is literally toxic for the entire world right now. The most elegant way to reduce everyone's prosperity, but in terms of popularity, he's taken Claudia Sheinbaum above 80%.

Kara Swisher 1:03:49 Incredible. Incredible.

Scott Galloway 1:03:50 I mean, everyone is riling against this guy.

Kara Swisher 1:03:53 We'll see if he wins. We'll, we'll, we'll see if he wins. We'll see. But anyway, that looks like that's the case. Um, okay, that's the show, and that was a good interview, Scott. I listened to it, it was terrific. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot, and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott, read us out.

Scott Galloway 1:04:09 Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Neudirft engineered this episode. Jim Mackle edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Beros, Miss Averio, and Dan Chillon. Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.