Is Trump's Pay-to-Play Dinner His Biggest Grift Yet? | Pivot

1. 0:00 – 8:50

   Intro

   1. SGScott Galloway0:00

      The grift has been the most competent, elegant part of the Trump administration. He is strategic, he is thoughtful. His timing is excellent. The brightest people in the Trump administration-

   2. KSKara Swisher0:13

      Are the grifters?

   3. SGScott Galloway0:13

      ... are the grifters. (instrumental music plays)

   4. KSKara Swisher0:20

      Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

   5. SGScott Galloway0:25

      And I'm Scott Galloway.

   6. KSKara Swisher0:27

      Scott, I went to the White House Correspondents' Dinner.

   7. SGScott Galloway0:28

      Oh, you went?

   8. KSKara Swisher0:29

      No, I didn't go to the dinner itself. There was parties.

   9. SGScott Galloway0:32

      I know you went to the parties.

   10. KSKara Swisher0:33

       I went to the parties. I didn't go to anything, and I actually slept through one of the better parties. I, I came home after Tammy Hadid's party and, uh, was so tired I slept the rest of the night, which was interesting.

   11. SGScott Galloway0:43

       So ta- uh, what have you heard? What's the scuttlebutt-

   12. KSKara Swisher0:46

       Well-

   13. SGScott Galloway0:46

       ... from the insiders?

   14. KSKara Swisher0:46

       ... I will tell you. Actually, you know, it was supposed to be like, "Oh, the Trump people weren't there," and, "Oh, how terrible." Actually, it was much more enjoyable. It was like kind of when the tech bros, uh, uh, left, uh, San Francisco (laughs) and, and everything was better. Like, they had, they sort of abandoned all the restaurants and everyone was like, "Oh, no." And it was much more pleasant, I have to say. I went to, uh, a dinner for the Substack threw with my agents, UTA. Uh, that was interesting. I sat, uh-

   15. SGScott Galloway1:13

       The Substack party, huh?

   16. KSKara Swisher1:15

       Yeah. We sat across-

   17. SGScott Galloway1:16

       A lot of hotties there?

   18. KSKara Swisher1:18

       N- uh, Nate Silver was there, Jim Acosta, uh, Mehdi Hasan was there. It was nice.

   19. SGScott Galloway1:22

       The White House Correspondents' Dinner, I feel some affection for it because it introduced me to who is my favorite comedian.

   20. KSKara Swisher1:29

       Oh, oh, um, ugh. What's her name? She was great. M- Michelle? Michelle?

   21. SGScott Galloway1:34

       Michelle Wolf. I think she's-

   22. KSKara Swisher1:35

       Wolf, yeah.

   23. SGScott Galloway1:36

       ... a genius. I think she's-

   24. KSKara Swisher1:36

       Yeah.

   25. SGScott Galloway1:36

       ... one of the great...

   26. KSKara Swisher1:37

       Yeah, they didn't have one this year supposedly. I wasn't there-

   27. SGScott Galloway1:40

       No, they didn't.

   28. KSKara Swisher1:41

       ... because they don't do them.

   29. SGScott Galloway1:41

       She wrote... I love her, this quote, "You guys gotta stop putting Kellyanne on your shows. All she does is lie. If you don't give her a platform and she has nowhere to lie, it's like that old saying, 'If a trees, if a tree falls in the woods, how do we know Kellyanne Conway, uh, is under that tree?'" (laughs)

   30. KSKara Swisher1:55

       (laughs)
2. 8:50 – 16:51

   Alphabet Earnings

   1. KSKara Swisher8:50

      are out, and Scott, it's time for another victory lap. You've been, you are hitting it on all cylinders, as-

   2. SGScott Galloway8:56

      That's right.

   3. KSKara Swisher8:56

      ... Ronnie and I... There you go. There you go.

   4. SGScott Galloway8:57

      That's why the people come here. That's why I make the big bucks.

   5. KSKara Swisher9:00

      That's right. The company overall revenue grew 12% year over year, beating expectations. Overall advertising was up 8.5% from the previous year, and search and other reported over $50 billion, up 9.8%. Well done, Sundar Pichai. AI Overviews, uh, Alphabet's AI tool at the top of Google search page has 1.5 billion monthly users, and Waymo is providing over 250,000 rides per week. I gotta say, Waymo is the quiet storm in a lotta ways, in terms of being successful and useful to people. It's coming to Washington, supposedly. And Alphabet's first quarter profit was boosted by, uh, $8 billion in unrealized gains from investments in private company, uh, such as, uh, SpaceX. They, they, they make investments, for people to understand. Listen to what you had to say last week before these earnings were out.

   6. SGScott Galloway9:46

      We're talking about Thursday. Alphabet's reporting at the end of the day, and I think rumors of Alphabet's struggles have been greatly exaggerated. I still think while ChatGPT is ascending dramatically and presents, does present an existential threat to search, YouTube is just an absolute juggernaut. And w- you talk about Waymo. I just think this company is so well-run, and Google continues to be the largest tollbooth in the history of mankind. I think that they're going to beat and, and I, I think they're gonna have, I think they're gonna beat expectations this afternoon, 'cause I think some of those expectations have been beaten down.

   7. KSKara Swisher10:21

      Well done. Although I have to tell you, Scott, a lot of people are talking about these cases, which they, they absolutely agree with you and I that, that w- will be broken up.

   8. SGScott Galloway10:29

      And their stock will go up.

   9. KSKara Swisher10:29

      Everybody thinks, thinks... Anyway, so Microsoft, Meta, Apple, and Amazon are reporting later this week.

   10. SGScott Galloway10:34

       Mm-hmm.

   11. KSKara Swisher10:34

       Any predictions and any thoughts on Google?

   12. SGScott Galloway10:36

       Um, I don't have predictions on the other ones. I'll save that for later in the week. But the, uh, I mean, think about this. Uh, I, I think Alphabet still has room to run, because if you look at Alphabet, or let's look at the S&P, the S&P 500. The average, so take an average S&P company, I don't know, Dow or Procter & Gamble, like a good company. They're all great companies, but some are amazing and some are not so amazing. But the average S&P 500 company trades at a price earnings multiple of 27. Alphabet, which I would argue has more growth prospects and quite frankly is just a more impressive company than 495 of the S&P 500, it trades at a multiple of 18. Now, why is that? Why does Alphabet trade at a multiple that is a third lower than the average of the S&P? And I think it's because of the fear of the existential risk that AI presents, right? But just keep in mind, as of today, Google Search handles 373 times more searches than ChatGPT.

   13. KSKara Swisher11:40

       Right.

   14. SGScott Galloway11:41

       So it's gonna take a while, folks, even if you think-

   15. KSKara Swisher11:43

       Right. It's good there's a competitor. Let's be clear.

   16. SGScott Galloway11:45

       Yeah.

   17. KSKara Swisher11:45

       There's never been a significant competitor-

   18. SGScott Galloway11:46

       Right.

   19. KSKara Swisher11:46

       ... to Google as yet. This is, you would say, a significant competitor on some level, even if it's smaller.

   20. SGScott Galloway11:53

       Right. But even looking at diversification or how robust the business is, ChatGPT I think is, is, uh, projected to do four billion in revenues. Alphabet has five separate businesses that do more than 30 billion a year. And just to talk about just how incredible this company is-... uh, Google Cloud, uh, its operating margins hit 18%, up from 9.5. Their margins almost doubled in their cloud business. Waymo is really, as you said, starting to register potential. This was the first quarter, uh, in which, um, Pichai or Sundar answered a question directly about Waymo. Waymo is now serving a quarter of a million paid rides per week. That's-

   21. KSKara Swisher12:35

       Yep, exactly.

   22. SGScott Galloway12:36

       ... that's a-

   23. KSKara Swisher12:36

       About 27 of them are mine, whenever I'm in San Fran- I'll be taking it when I get to San Francisco.

   24. SGScott Galloway12:40

       That's up fivefold from a year ago.

   25. KSKara Swisher12:43

       Right.

   26. SGScott Galloway12:43

       YouTube, in just the last nine years, it- its revenue has quadrupled. And between YouTube Premium and Music, the platform now has over 100 million paid subscribers. It also commands 11% of all streaming watch time, which means it's the number one streaming platform. And if you think of it as a social media company, it's the most popular social media company in the world. So, this company is just, uh, it- it has seven products and platforms with over two billion users. Search, Maps, Gmail, Android, Chrome, Play Store, and YouTube. So Alphabet, I mean, in terms of-

   27. KSKara Swisher13:18

       But we- we both think it should be broken up, right? Or it will be, correct?

   28. SGScott Galloway13:22

       Oh, I think all of (laughs) these guys should be broken up.

   29. KSKara Swisher13:24

       Yeah, right.

   30. SGScott Galloway13:24

       And here's the thing-
3. 16:51 – 21:29

   Milwaukee Judge Arrested

   1. KSKara Swisher16:51

      FBI agents arrested a Milwaukee judge accused of obstructing justice for directing an undocumented immigrant in her courtroom to exit through the side door to avoid immigration agents. FBI Director Kash Patel posted a photo of the judge, Hannah C. Dugan, in handcuffs saying, "No one is above the law." Dugan has, uh, since been released from custody and is expected to be arraigned on May 15th, which is- which is soon. Meanwhile, three US citizens, uh, citizen children under ten have been deported with their mothers, including a four-year-old with stage IV cancer. According to a recent Washington Post/ABC/Ipsos poll, 53% of Americans disapprove of Trump's handling of immigration, where he was winning. That's up from 48% in February. This was his signature issue, uh, we- we'll talk about the polls for Trump, which are terrible right now, but this was the one where he was g- ironclad. Um, thought- very quick thoughts on this?

   2. SGScott Galloway17:46

      Look, uh- (sighs) if you look at the polls and you try to be an honest broker, his signature issues, he had a lot of support around. He had a mandate around immigration, he had a mandate around tariffs. Um, you know, he had a- he had a mandate around kind of DEI or wokeness, whatever you wanna call it. But as my friend Dov Seidman wrote a book on this, it's not about- it's not about what you do, it's how you do it. And he's really blown it, because actually the majority of Americans believe you should deport people who are here illegally.

   3. KSKara Swisher18:17

      They do.

   4. SGScott Galloway18:18

      However, should you deport-... a four-year-old with stage IV cancer without, I mean, should you start rounding up people because of the wrong tattoo? Should you levy-

   5. KSKara Swisher18:28

      Go to the club. Go show up at the-

   6. SGScott Galloway18:29

      Should you levy-

   7. KSKara Swisher18:30

      ... club meeting.

   8. SGScott Galloway18:30

      ... tariffs that basically, uh, neuter domestic businesses and are about to put a ton of small businesses out of business? And it's, uh, the majority of his policies actually, uh, especially on the immigration side, he's a winner in, especially over the Democrats who just stuck out this chin, the world's biggest chin in the world. But the problem is the way he's going about it, he's kind of, uh, in my view, he's kind of blown it, with just a few... And I'm not talking about what's right here, or what I would have liked to have seen done, but purely politically, if he had just scaled back, people actually agree with Doge. But the way they've gone about it has been such overreach, and the coarseness and the cruelty, and quite frankly, the incompetence and stupid, stupidity-

   9. KSKara Swisher19:14

      Correct.

   10. SGScott Galloway19:14

       ... they've gone along with.

   11. KSKara Swisher19:14

       They're making, giving victory laps without a victory.

   12. SGScott Galloway19:16

       He could, he could, Kara, we... The media and progressives could have their hair on fire, and he could be one of the most popular presidents in history in the first 100 days-

   13. KSKara Swisher19:26

       But he's not.

   14. SGScott Galloway19:27

       ... if he had maintained these themes-

   15. KSKara Swisher19:29

       Right.

   16. SGScott Galloway19:29

       ... but handled them with a little bit more caution, nuance, and discipline, and had smarter people executing these things.

   17. KSKara Swisher19:37

       Smarter people around him. He has people who say yes, and to his bad base instincts. And so, he's also older, I'm gonna, gonna, I'm gonna start to really stress that. I know all these books are coming about Biden, but he's older, and so he's unfettered, he's addled, and he does what he wants, and he has people around him who are incompetent, uh, or, or have a cruelty streak, like Kash Patel, Kristi Noem standing in front of those people. I think everybody was uncomfortable with that photo of her in front of those... I don't care what those guys did, that was gross, that was grotesque, uh, dressed like a, you know, ice Barbie. Uh, Kash Patel, the way he talks about things, um, they're, they, they have a cr- uh, Stephen Miller, forget it, screaming on every TV station. I think you don't win by yelling at people and telling them they're stupid for finding, um, deportation of a four-year-old with stage IV cancer. But, and that Tom Homan, he seems like he's had a few all the time, and he says stupid things almost continually. I mean, the cruelty is really quite, uh, uh, diminishing of, of, you're right, popular programs. But this number, 53 to 48, if he, I mean, fif- uh, 48 to 53, he's under water on his signature issue? Which is really, I mean, that'll make other people act up against him. Anyway, we'll see what's gonna happen. I think it's gonna continue to rise, 'cause I think he can't help himself. We'll see. He needs to pull back. If he did, he, he'd probably be popular again.

   18. SGScott Galloway20:54

       It would have been a few tweaks-

   19. KSKara Swisher20:57

       Right, tweaks.

   20. SGScott Galloway20:57

       We love our PhD students.

   21. KSKara Swisher20:59

       Mm-hmm.

   22. SGScott Galloway20:59

       Of course, "Oh, this person is not a criminal? We, we apologize, we're gonna figure out where this person should be sent-"

   23. KSKara Swisher21:05

       How to get back.

   24. SGScott Galloway21:05

       "... or brought back to America."

   25. KSKara Swisher21:07

       Can't do it. They can't do it.

   26. SGScott Galloway21:07

       "We immediately called Sloan Kettering and got this little girl help."

   27. KSKara Swisher21:13

       Right.

   28. SGScott Galloway21:13

       I mean, uh, i- i- show me someone who is willing to be this cruel-

   29. KSKara Swisher21:16

       Right.

   30. SGScott Galloway21:16

       ... I'll show you someone who invokes the name of Jesus Christ every fucking minute, and if-
4. 21:29 – 27:41

   Trump and Zelensky Meeting

   1. KSKara Swisher21:29

      Scott, we're back. President Trump and Ukrainian President Zelenskyy met on the sidelines of the, Pope Francis' funeral this weekend to discuss the end of war. It was a very interesting visual. I thought it was a terrific visual, actually. Um, and now President Trump appears to be on Ukraine's side. The U.S., uh, president afterwards posted on Truth Social, criticizing Russian President Vladimir Putin for recent missile attacks on Ukraine, saying, "It makes me think that maybe he doesn't want to stop the war." Really? "He's just tapping me along." Hmm. "And this has to be dealt with differently through banking or secondary sanctions," whatever that is. On Sunday, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who really looks like he's blinking for us to come save him, said the administration will decide this week whether to continue pursuing a negotiated settlement of the war. Uh, who do you think got in his ear about Russia here? Um, and, um, uh, it's really, it was kind of a shift. I thought that picture was kind of weirdly beautiful of him in, in these, in this incredibly, um, ornate sa- setting, on these two simple chairs, sort of leaning into each other, and it was very-

   2. SGScott Galloway22:31

      It was one of the images of the year. No doubt about it.

   3. KSKara Swisher22:32

      I agree. I was-

   4. SGScott Galloway22:33

      Yeah.

   5. KSKara Swisher22:33

      ... sort of like, "Whoa-"

   6. SGScott Galloway22:34

      Yeah, yeah.

   7. KSKara Swisher22:34

      "... that's a great image." But-

   8. SGScott Galloway22:35

      You know what it looked like?

   9. KSKara Swisher22:36

      What?

   10. SGScott Galloway22:36

       It looked like they were about to address the Senate on the planet of Naboo.

   11. KSKara Swisher22:39

       (laughs) Anyway.

   12. SGScott Galloway22:41

       (laughs) I mean, were you expecting Natalie Portman to come out?

   13. KSKara Swisher22:43

       I know. So what do you think about this shift? Who got his ear? Who got his ear?

   14. SGScott Galloway22:47

       Like... (sighs)

   15. KSKara Swisher22:48

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SGScott Galloway22:49

       I think this is, I think this is the issue, and I always say that, and then I go back to deficits. But what you have here is when Trump was asked, uh, after they said we need to, you know, they both need to give up something and, and accept things they don't want. And Trump was asked, "Well, what is Putin supposed to give up?" And he said, "Well, to stop the killing and stop the invasion." Now, think about that statement. What the president of United States is saying to the world is that if you're an autocrat, you now have an incentive to invade and kill people, because you gain something to give up. The whole point of pushing back, the whole point of NATO, the whole point of having an $800 billion military industrial complex is create a, we create a series of incentives that when you illegally invade a neighboring country and start shelling maternity wards, that you end up worse off. And what Trump and Vance are effectively saying is they're gonna have to cede all the land to Russia, and exchange, Russia will just stop its illegal, murderous activity. That is, that is exactly what America is not supposed to be doing, and what got in his ear? I'd like to think some sanity that-

   17. KSKara Swisher24:05

       But who-

   18. SGScott Galloway24:05

       ... at the end of the day, the president is the world's largest capital allocator, the world's largest manager, trying to allocate capital to a gr- the greatest return possible. The greatest return in geopolitics is for $60 to $80 billion, or 8% to 10% of our military budget, we give, we armed the brave Ukrainian army with the weapons...... to fight back on Russia, such that they have to spend half a billion to a billion dollars a day to distract them from the surface area of attack against the US, which they, they deploy in one of two ways. They either steal our IP or they cyber-attack us. So keeping Russia distracted in Ukraine, and I know this is macabre, and I know this ignores the incredible human sacrifice, but if we're gonna just talk about realpolitik, this is the best money we've ever spent. And until Russia, until we show other autocrats who are thinking about invading South Korea or invading-

   19. KSKara Swisher25:00

       Taiwan.

   20. SGScott Galloway25:01

       ... Taiwan, until we give them a clear signal, there is incentive not to do it, meaning you are worse off when you do this.

   21. KSKara Swisher25:09

       Yeah. Yeah.

   22. SGScott Galloway25:09

       Not better off. The world is less safe. And until-

   23. KSKara Swisher25:12

       Is there a person you think got in his head?

   24. SGScott Galloway25:15

       I don't know, Kara. I don't know. I don't know who this guy listens to other than Peter Navarro. The best thing that could happen for our economy is if someone chained Peter Navarro to his bar. I mean, e- e- e- in his room, in his... Uh, the worst thing that could happen to our economy is every time you see Peter Navarro anywhere near the President, go short the market.

   25. KSKara Swisher25:34

       Yeah.

   26. SGScott Galloway25:35

       I don't know what Gil-

   27. KSKara Swisher25:35

       You know-

   28. SGScott Galloway25:35

       ... uh, uh, Secretary Rubio? But the thing about Secretary Rubio is I literally think he'll say just anything.

   29. KSKara Swisher25:41

       Anything. Right, I agree.

   30. SGScott Galloway25:43

       Anything.
5. 27:41 – 33:43

   Trump Meme Coin Dinner

   1. KSKara Swisher27:41

      n- now the other side of Donald Trump, his official meme coin skyrocketed after announcement that he, that the top 220 holders of the coin would get invited to dinner with the President. Oh my God. Oh my God. What corruption in plain sight. Steve Ratner wrote a great piece about this, by the way, this week. The initial price surge was over 50%, boosting the coin's total market value to $2.7 billion, with Trump and his allies reportedly pocketing close to $900,000 in trading fees in two days. In trading fees. Uh, Senator Chris Murphy posted on X, "The meme coin sale was the most brazenly corrupt thing a president ever done." I think, m- pretty much so. And Senators Adam, uh, Schiff and Elizabeth Warren are calling for an ethics investigation, saying this dinner might constitute a pay-to-play corruption. I think it doesn't constitute it. I think if he loses the House in two years, this is all we're gonna be talking about. Um, w- you have talked a lot about, um, about this meme coin. Um, a- and then speaking of askers, I'm gonna add this on. Donald Trump Jr., Omid Malick, I think that's his name... um, anyway, um, several other investors are reportedly launching an invite-only club in DC that costs more than a half a million dollars to join. The executive branch will cater to business and tech moguls looking to nurture relations with Trump administration, according to Politico. This one just sounds douchey, but I don't have a problem with it. They can have their little clubs to meet at and do their, like, man things there if they want. But, uh, talk about... Uh, the second one I don't think is corruption. I just think that the Democrats have it too. There's always been clubs, there's always been this kind of thing. It just is, you know, extra douchey is all. Um, thoughts on, on the coin and the club?

   2. SGScott Galloway29:09

      I'm exactly where you are. I believe in the right of free assembly, and if Don Jr. wants to get people together and charge them, that's his right. I don't... And by the way, that's kind of what lobbyists do. It's like lobbying-

   3. KSKara Swisher29:18

      Yeah.

   4. SGScott Galloway29:18

      ... with a party. I don't, I don't have a problem with it.

   5. KSKara Swisher29:19

      Yeah. So they g- they can go to a steak place or this place.

   6. SGScott Galloway29:22

      Yeah, fine.

   7. KSKara Swisher29:22

      Who cares? Who cares?

   8. SGScott Galloway29:22

      Fine. The, the Trump coin is grift on an entirely different dimension. And let's just talk about the timing. He announced the Trump coin the Friday night before his inauguration when there was just a media maelstrom, and it, he buried it, right? Because he-

   9. KSKara Swisher29:37

      Right.

   10. SGScott Galloway29:37

       ... knew that th- the market would go. This is incredibly corrupt. There were about 30 people who made about $600 or $800 million, according to logs, in those first few hours. And my guess is those 30 people might have been tipped off or have been really close to the President, because they clearly had a lot of money, and they were clearly in first.

   11. KSKara Swisher29:57

       Yeah.

   12. SGScott Galloway29:57

       And then, over the course of the next few weeks, about 80,000 people lost billions, because it spiked-

   13. KSKara Swisher30:04

       That's right.

   14. SGScott Galloway30:04

       ... the insiders got out. Then let's talk about more timing. He decides that about the time that the lockup is gonna come up, and that is the insiders, the people who started to get to sell, he decides, one, to have a meeting, you know, to announce this meeting to distract people and get the, get the price back up. And shortly before that, he announced that he was doing away with the DOJ unit that investigates crypto scams.

   15. KSKara Swisher30:31

       Yup.

   16. SGScott Galloway30:32

       So this is really...I wish, I wish he approached geopolitics and tariff policy with the same strategy he approaches his grift, because the grift has been the most competent, elegant part of the Trump administration. He is strategic, he is thoughtful. His timing is excellent. The brightest people in the Trump administration-

   17. KSKara Swisher30:55

       Are the grifters.

   18. SGScott Galloway30:57

       ... are the grifters-

   19. KSKara Swisher30:57

       Yeah.

   20. SGScott Galloway30:57

       ... are the people handling... They're bearing the stories at the exact right moment. They're neutering the investigators-

   21. KSKara Swisher31:03

       They've been at it for a long time. They're experienced grifters. Go ahead.

   22. SGScott Galloway31:05

       They're, they're, they're very good at this. But this is... Again, it's just very simple. If you found out that Vladimir Putin had been buying hundreds of millions or billions in Trump coin and saying to Trump, "You're gonna be the wealthiest man ever as long as we keep buying. By the way, in unrelated news, what are your thoughts on Ukraine?" Wouldn't all of this make sense? And that might not be true, but the whole point of the president and our elected officials is you're not supposed to have that, that doubt, that cloud of corruption over them. And it... And just because I wanna move to a solution, I absolutely think we need to move to a Singaporean model. I think the president should make 10 million bucks a year. I think senators should make 3 million and representatives should make a million dollars a year, and in exchange for that, abso-fucking-lutely-

   23. KSKara Swisher31:57

       Nothing.

   24. SGScott Galloway31:57

       ... nothing resembling correction. Speaker Pelosi, you can't trade stocks. You cannot, when you're voted out of office, there's a three-year sunshine period. You can't go to work for a lobbyist. You can never talk about an individual company. For God's sakes, you can't get involved in... None of your family members can start-

   25. KSKara Swisher32:12

       Yeah.

   26. SGScott Galloway32:12

       ... a crypto company.

   27. KSKara Swisher32:13

       Yeah.

   28. SGScott Galloway32:14

       Zero tolerance corruption, but we're gonna pay you a lot of money.

   29. KSKara Swisher32:17

       Yeah.

   30. SGScott Galloway32:17

       Because all they're doing now with the current compensate-
6. 33:43 – 39:14

   Trump’s “Strategic Uncertainty”

   1. KSKara Swisher33:43

      Scott, we're back. As President Trump marks 100 days in office, 64% of Americans disapprove of how he's handling the tariffs according to a new AB- set new ABC News, Washington Post Ipsos poll. It's one of many that are pointing in these directions. Trump is now saying he's made 200 deals on tariffs in an interview with Time Magazine. He also keeps claiming to have spoken with Pr- uh, China's President Xi. Who knows? Uh, China denies any talks are happening and said the US should stop creating confusion. I'm believing China on this one. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent was on ABC's, uh, This Week, where he attempted to explain Trump's tariff strategy. This was so painful to watch. Listen.

   2. SBScott Bessent34:16

      In game theory, it's called strategic uncertainty. So, you're, you're not gonna tell the, uh, the person on the other side of the negotiation where you're gonna end up. And nobody's better at creating this leverage than President Trump. You know, he's shown these, uh, high tariffs. And it's, uh, here's the stick. The, this is where the tariffs can go, and the carrot is, "Come to us, take off your tariffs, take off your non-tariff trade barriers. There's... Stop manipulating your currency. Stop subsidizing labor and capital, and then we can talk."

   3. KSKara Swisher34:50

      Oh, my God. Scott, Scott, it's like sticking your eye with a dry stick and saying, "We won." Like, wha- what? Like, this was, like... It's chaos. I just don't... Strategic... You do strategic uncertain to me all the time, Scott, and I find it irritating. That's all I have to say. Thoughts, thoughts, thoughts.

   4. SGScott Galloway35:08

      Uh, I'm fascinated by game theory. I, I teach a-

   5. KSKara Swisher35:10

      I agree.

   6. SGScott Galloway35:11

      I teach a class on game theory, and-

   7. KSKara Swisher35:14

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SGScott Galloway35:14

      ... this could not be... Uh, this is their go-to. It's, uh, the general script, uh, that they all have to follow. Couch everything in what a genius Trump is.

   9. KSKara Swisher35:23

      Mm-hmm. Chess.

   10. SGScott Galloway35:23

       And also-

   11. KSKara Swisher35:24

       Chess 3D.

   12. SGScott Galloway35:25

       That's right.

   13. KSKara Swisher35:25

       7D chess.

   14. SGScott Galloway35:25

       Claim he's playing-

   15. KSKara Swisher35:27

       20D chess.

   16. SGScott Galloway35:27

       Claim he's playing 4D chess. And the reality is, the world thinks there's a decent chance this man-child is gonna start eating the pieces, he's such a fucking idiot.

   17. KSKara Swisher35:35

       That's correct. (laughs) That's correct.

   18. SGScott Galloway35:36

       And I don't know... All right, let's look at our three largest trading partners, and I'm boasting about... I'm name-dropping now, but without name-dropping. The, our three largest trading partners are Canada, then Mexico, then China. In the last week, I have, I interviewed, uh, the Prime Minister of Canada.

   19. KSKara Swisher35:53

       The soon to probably be today, by the way.

   20. SGScott Galloway35:55

       Well, he's prime minister now, and he's probably gonna be reelected because of Trump.

   21. KSKara Swisher35:58

       Yes, today. Today.

   22. SGScott Galloway35:59

       (laughs) Because the opposition, the Conservative Party-

   23. KSKara Swisher36:01

       Yeah. 25 points down.

   24. SGScott Galloway36:02

       ... has co- overcome a 25-point deficit.

   25. KSKara Swisher36:04

       Jesus Knievel.

   26. SGScott Galloway36:05

       Anyways, anyways.

   27. KSKara Swisher36:07

       Yeah.

   28. SGScott Galloway36:07

       By the way, this guy probably has the most impressive resume in global politics.

   29. KSKara Swisher36:10

       He does.

   30. SGScott Galloway36:10

       Uh-
7. 39:14 – 41:18

   Shein Hikes Prices

   1. KSKara Swisher39:14

      uh, fast fashion giant that's got, uh, like, uh, uh, Shein is already hiking prices as high as 377%, so instead of a dollar, it costs four dollars.

   2. SGScott Galloway39:25

      Well, just, and just, you know, some of the, the companies, for example, we were talking about Alibaba earlier. Do you know what percentage of Alibaba's business is done in the U.S.?

   3. KSKara Swisher39:33

      Not much, I bet.

   4. SGScott Galloway39:35

      2%.

   5. KSKara Swisher39:36

      Yeah.

   6. SGScott Galloway39:36

      So you think they're scared?

   7. KSKara Swisher39:37

      Yeah.

   8. SGScott Galloway39:38

      And the, the thing about-

   9. KSKara Swisher39:40

      Shein is big. Shein is big here.

   10. SGScott Galloway39:41

       The, the... Shein is big here, but, but, but what's interesting about it is the following. The math that people fail to do is like, "Oh, it'll really hurt them and then Shein, and then Xi will get nervous. Oh, Shein is not doing well even though Shein claims to be a Singaporean company." Their supply chain is in China. They employ a lot of people in China, so, "Oh, we're gonna intimidate them and scare them because their products are going up."

   11. KSKara Swisher39:59

       No.

   12. SGScott Galloway39:59

       Okay, let's do the math.

   13. KSKara Swisher40:01

       No.

   14. SGScott Galloway40:01

       Shein's whole value proposition is, "I can get you," or they can get you, "a $10 reasonable facsimile of a cashmere sweater," then get, get to... They can import it in for 10 bucks because of their supply chain, whereas Ralph Lauren, when they import something in from China, it costs them 60, or say 50. Generally speaking, a retailer kind of triples it, so it goes from 10 to 30 bucks. If the 145% tariff goes from... That takes it from 10 to 24 bucks, so then it needs to go to 72. The $50 sweater that comes into Ralph Lauren goes from 50 to 100 and, what is that? 45%, 125, so that goes to $375. So the question is, do these less expensive products... The whole market shrinks, but I would argue that cheaper stuff from China ends up taking share, so the economy goes down because the price differential on cheaper goods broadens between the more expensive goods. So what happens? The economy goes down. Spending goes down. But I wonder if some of those less expensive Chinese products actually end up grabbing share from the American companies that are bringing in-

   15. KSKara Swisher41:11

       That's correct.

   16. SGScott Galloway41:11

       ... China prod- Chinese products.

   17. KSKara Swisher41:12

       Mm-hmm.

   18. SGScott Galloway41:12

       So it's like the worst of both worlds for American companies.

   19. KSKara Swisher41:15

       Indeed. Yeah, it's just a mess. Anyway, uh,

8. 41:18 – 47:24

   New EV Truck Unveiled

   1. KSKara Swisher41:18

      speaking of another, uh, interesting thing. Uh, we, we haven't talked about Elon in a while. He's been very quiet. Um, he's not, he's not wielding his chainsaw. Uh, as I noted, I saw the Escalade EV, which I thought was a very impressive car. Uh, but another one, uh, again, that could have been... Cybertruck could have been a terrific, beautiful car and it turned out to be a lemon, and it's, it's a disaster for, for Tesla, quite a big disaster. A startup called Slate Auto, backed by Jeff Bezos and other investors, is launching a made-in-America EV truck at, with a starting price of 20K, inexpensive after federal tax credits. The Slate's truck design is pretty basic, no power windows, no infotainment screen, no paint. People will get custom wraps. You can also, um, change it and you can make... put a back on it. It can be a, um, it can be a pickup. It can do a number of different things. It's really quite... I love the idea of it. It's a lot like, um, Zoox, which he also has, where you can customize it very much. Um, it gets about 150 miles of range on a charge. The car is designed in California and Michigan. Will be manufactured in the Midwest with domestically sourced parts. Very s-... It's like a Lego car, it looks like. Slate plans to start deliveries in late 2026. I bet they will. I bet they'll actually do what they say as opposed to what Tesla always does. Over in Europe, VW t- overtook Tesla as the top EV seller for the first three months of 2025. That's a big deal. Their car is an ID4, I think it's called. It's a... I wanna buy it so badly, I can't even stand it. I don't care how much it costs, it's so great-looking and looks terrific and well-made. Um, all these EV companies, I- I've seen more and more, not just BYD, and there's another one in Japan, but-... so much competition, so many beautiful cars, which are fun and interesting, and at so many different price points. And EV sales are up along with hybrid sales. So, uh, again, another thing Tesla could have done, um, and, and had the market and losing it, 'cause they had to indulge in s- in his Cybertruck, uh, fantasies. So, any quick thoughts?

   2. SGScott Galloway43:13

      I love the new Rivian car. I mean, the automobile industry is, is a case study in economics around fixed costs, and that is to build, to build, um, an assembly line or to build a platform. All right, we want to build an SUV. It costs so much money to build a platform that it's all about scale. You gotta just-

   3. KSKara Swisher43:32

      Yeah.

   4. SGScott Galloway43:32

      ... shove a shit ton of cars down-

   5. KSKara Swisher43:34

      Yeah.

   6. SGScott Galloway43:34

      ... that assembly line. So what do they do? Volkswagen says, "Okay, we're building a platform for SUVs." And about 80% of the way down the assembly line, they shove a Volkswagen Touareg, a Porsche, a Porsche Cayman, and an Audi Q7. They're all on the same assembly line. And then the last 10 or 20% of the assembly line, they take different routes, and the Porsche gets much higher end leather and badging and a better stereo. And then once it's off the assembly line, they get, uh, a different ad agency to appeal to men in midlife crisis. The Touareg gets an ad agency for families. The Audi gets someone who thinks they're a little bit more Euro, whatever it might be. But they've got to shove as many cars down that assembly line for scale as possible, and basically Rivian's saying, "Okay, we've got to come out with a lower cost product and shove as many, as many cars down that assembly line." I think the most impressive company in the world right now, I'm actually thinking of buying their stock even though it's up 60% in the last year, is BYD. I think this company is gonna, uh, uh, ultimately, ch- ultimately trade barriers come down because people are more greedy than they are concerned about their fellow citizens or whatever it is you want argument you want to make around tariffs or trade protections. The world ultimately is up and to the right around, um, free trade. It just makes sense for everybody. It's just everybody, everybody wants cheaper grapes and more toys under their tree than they are worried about Joe, who's a union guy, over the long term. And BYD is literally just, if, if you look at their products relative to the cost, they're putting out a car right now, if we didn't have any trade barriers, you could get a really good EV for less than $10,000. Can you imagine how many of those things they would sell in America? Anyway, I'm, I, I... And not only that, everyone keeps talking, I mean, we, it, this ridiculous notion about humanoid robots at Tesla. You want to see the most unbelievable robots? Go to a factory in China and see (laughs) the robotics there. I mean, Tim Cook said this, he said, "The misconception of China is it's a bunch of low cost wage labor and factories doing, you know, tedious work." You go into these factories, it's something out of West World. So, they, they've already got robotics and humanoids doing incredible things. Anyway, uh, there's a ton of companies, but unfortunately or fortunately, like Volkswagen has unbelievable scale, and now they're selling the most EVs in Europe. And you just want to shove as many cars down that fixed cost assembly line, and the one I think that's gonna be, become the automobile and innovation company of the next five years is gonna be BYD.

   7. KSKara Swisher46:12

      BYD. But let me just say, all the car companies are really, have exciting cars they're offering, all of them, in some ways. And they'll either be popular or not, but impressive? I mean, you put the Cybertruck next to these, and it's such a fail on behalf of Tesla to have had the lead here, and it could have been innovative. He just doesn't want to be in the car company, and then he's bragging about, um, robo-taxis, which Waymo is doing beautifully, and then he's talking about the Optimus Prime, which nobody wants to have a robot in their house right now. It's just not happening. Maybe some day. But this idea, like these, they're, they're, they're indulging-

   8. SGScott Galloway46:47

      I know someone to yell at. I can't believe you forgot to take the roast out of the freezer.

   9. KSKara Swisher46:50

      I know, exactly. But you know what? Uh, he, they're indulging in this guy's weird fantasies. They never should have done the Cybertruck, never. There was so much opportunity for him to do a big killer, Escalade killer, a Ford b- you know, a truck killer, and he just didn't do it, didn't do it. Had to create this weird thing not, a woman would never buy, and the only men that would buy it are dickless.

   10. SGScott Galloway47:11

       Well, you know why robots don't have brothers?

   11. KSKara Swisher47:13

       Why? Oh, no.

   12. SGScott Galloway47:14

       Because they have trans sisters.

   13. KSKara Swisher47:16

       (laughs) That's good.

   14. SGScott Galloway47:19

       Right?

   15. KSKara Swisher47:19

       Okay. (laughs) One more quick break.

   16. SGScott Galloway47:21

       Right?

   17. KSKara Swisher47:21

       That's a good one. We'll be back for wins and fails.

9. 47:24 – 58:57

   Wins and Fails

   1. KSKara Swisher47:24

      Okay, Scott. Here's some, uh, let's hear some wins and fails. I think I'll go first today.

   2. SGScott Galloway47:28

      All right.

   3. KSKara Swisher47:28

      Um, there's a story in The Wall Street Journal, I, again, I argued with meta people this weekend at these parties. Um, they're called digital companions. They have the ability to engage in romantic role play with users, including kids. According to a Wall Street Journal article, Mark is the one pushing it through to be more aggressive. I've talked to a lot of people internally at Facebook and they've been trying to keep him from doing that, and to be very safety conscious around these things. Very sim- similar to Character.ai, which was an offshoot of Google. It was, uh, people went off and did it, and Google's now licensing it. Uh, and a lot of, a lot of kids, uh, one kid killed himself, et cetera. Just these, you cannot have digital companions that kids can get near, and there can't be any holes in your wall if you're gonna do this. I have no problem with, I don't have a problem with these digital companions and being romantic. They cannot get near certain people, and it should be, like, it sh- the fact that The Wall Street Journal was t- was able to get them to do this, and also you, they also have celebrity voices for these things, and they start to get se- apparently j- uh, John Cena got sexy with someone on, he didn't want to get sexy with them, but he did, his bot did. And so if you're gonna do this stuff, you've got to have it locked the fuck down. And the fact that they haven't is just atypical. And Mark is pushing it through and there's a lot of pressure, et cetera, et cetera. Um, I think, uh, I just, I'm, I'm just astonished that they continue to build things without this, the, the level of care they need to. It's just, I, I, maybe I shouldn't be surprised, but it's really amazing that they keep doing so. It's, um, it's, uh, it's such a fail. It's a so- it's such an astonishing fail. And I think probably my positive this week, uh, uh, there's a lot of stuff coming out, I'll be talking about Mission, the next Mission Impossible soon, and other things that are coming out, looks like some great movies this summer.... um, but I have to say, I think this, this, uh, Carney in Canada is d- is playing it beautifully. I assume he's gonna win tonight, um, uh, and he's, uh, he looks like he's on track to win. And what a comeback for the Liberals, and, and, and changing their candidate is what they did. They've been in charge for a long time. I don't think any country should have one party in, uh, in charge for, uh, for too long. But he seems to be a fresh new face when he's not a fresh new face, so it gives a lot of lessons to Democrats, um, in terms of f- finding a fresh new face even when you're not fresh. So I'm really... Uh, we'll see what happens. And then very briefly, there's a, there's a big outage of power in, in Spain and Portugal, and I hope everybody's there. And of course, we have to think about a cyberattack, uh, in situations like this. But they're having it right now, and, uh, it's fairly, uh... This is gonna happen more in the future. Just good, good luck to the people there as it's happening. Scott?

   4. SGScott Galloway50:06

      I love your fail, and I, I do believe that this requires some sort of legislation. Because I think one of the biggest threats to our society is a lack of companionship and, and love and mating that turns people, especially young men, into misogynists and nationalists and extremists, and also suicidal. I keep... I see all these TikToks about, and it's heartbreaking, about women talking about why would they go on a date when they might go out with someone that murders them. And I understand that men are more violent, and I think it's a real issue, and I can understand. And it breaks my heart to think that women aren't safe around men. But the reality is 2,500 women are murdered by men a year, and that's way too many, and they're usually domestic partners or someone they know. 40,000 men kill themselves. So, eh, these men are not only dangerous to society and dangerous to women, but especially dangerous to themselves. And the question is, well, why are we creating these violent men who are prone to just information that becomes... turns them into shitty citi- citizens, makes them more disparaging of women, more... and much more harmful to others, and especially harmful to themselves? And I think part of that is they're mammals, and they're losing connection with other people. And when you have the deepest-pocketed, most well-resourced companies in the world all trying to convince these men they can have a reasonable facsimile of life on a screen with an algorithm, we're, we're making the problem worse. And I've, I've said that I think wanting to have friends, wanting to go through the pecking order, the humiliation of figuring out friendships, wanting to figure out how hard it is, and to navigate the corporate world, I think that can turn you into a better person, especially a better man who... These guys don't mature very early. And also, that fire, that real fire of sexual desire, I think when channeled correctly makes you stronger, more kind, demonstrate excellence, have a plan. You know, eh, there's a reason, and I've said this over and over, there's a reason romantic comedies are two hours, not 15 minutes, and that this shit is hard but it's worth it. And anything that convinces even more young men that they don't need to go through the difficult and rewarding and worthwhile effort of establishing human connection with other sentient beings is a threat to our society.

   5. KSKara Swisher52:33

      I would agree.

   6. SGScott Galloway52:33

      It's-

   7. KSKara Swisher52:34

      But if they're gonna do it, they have to do it safely, like, uh, honestly. I, I don't-

   8. SGScott Galloway52:37

      My, my question is, if it... It's one thing to give seniors companions who are in their 90s-

   9. KSKara Swisher52:42

      Right.

   10. SGScott Galloway52:42

       ... and have lost all their loved ones.

   11. KSKara Swisher52:43

       Yup, I'd like to have one for my mother, I'll be honest with you.

   12. SGScott Galloway52:46

       But, but, but should we have, should we have... Or maybe tax the shit out of them. I don't know. Should we have AI sex robots that convince all men-

   13. KSKara Swisher52:55

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SGScott Galloway52:55

       ... to think that, "Oh, I don't need to be kind to women. I don't"-

   15. KSKara Swisher52:58

       Mmm.

   16. SGScott Galloway52:58

       ... "need to have a plan"? I-

   17. KSKara Swisher52:59

       They're gonna make them, Scott, whether you like it or not. They're gonna-

   18. SGScott Galloway53:02

       Well-

   19. KSKara Swisher53:02

       ... make them, because these, these guys, they n-... They can't have children, and they desperately want to have children in a weird, strange, fucked-up way.

   20. SGScott Galloway53:10

       When you say... Who are you talking about that want to have children?

   21. KSKara Swisher53:11

       Uh, I mean, I think sometimes I think AI... Uh, you to-... I told you this theory. I think AI is the way it gets so dominated by men, and there's so lack of safety and everything else. I said it's because I think they... men can't have children. Certain men, not all of them think this way, but, um, can't have children, and this is their way of giving birth. I, I just... or something, or creating.

   22. SGScott Galloway53:29

       I never thought about that.

   23. KSKara Swisher53:30

       Hmm, think about it.

   24. SGScott Galloway53:32

       But, but you... Are you saying, are you saying incel culture or the people who run the AI companies?

   25. KSKara Swisher53:37

       No, I think the people that run these, some of these companies, they can't make beings. It's a very beautiful thing to make a child. I... Men and women make them together, obviously, but really women grow children, right?

   26. SGScott Galloway53:46

       Mm-hmm.

   27. KSKara Swisher53:47

       And men... This is man's way of growing things, growing beings. I don't... Anyway, go ahead with your-

   28. SGScott Galloway53:54

       God, that's such a dystopian, weird vision.

   29. KSKara Swisher53:55

       I know. It is, it is. Think about it.

   30. SGScott Galloway53:56

       But I hear this stuff. Everyone talks...

Episode duration: 58:57