PivotWhy Scott Galloway Is So Worried about Democrats' Midterm Chances
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
55 min read · 10,845 words- 0:00 – 0:22
Intro
- SGScott Galloway
This is a data harvesting operation wearing a civic costume. This is fucking Halloween.
- KSKara Swisher
[upbeat music] Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- SGScott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- KSKara Swisher
We've got a lot to get into. Th-this one, I was actually... It just happened right, right when I was coming up on the train this morning.
- 0:22 – 8:54
Nvidia’s Buyback and Rogue AI Fix
- KSKara Swisher
Nvidia has launched the largest stock buyback, uh, in history, US history, adding $150 billion to its repurchase program and bringing its total authorization to $235 billion. The move comes just four months after Nvidia's board added another $80 billion to the buyback program. The company says it expects revenue to grow 70% in fiscal 2028. Now, its stock had been down, right? It had been at sort of lows, so presumably the buyback was part of that, but, uh, it's probably cheap to buy its stock back. So talk a little bit, 'cause I also wanna add another announcement. The company is releasing a tool that it says will stop AI agents from going rogue. How funny, the timing. The technology is supposed to help companies to monitor every action taken by an AI agent. This comes after news that OpenAI's agents again went rogue and meddled with government websites, US government websites, without the company's knowledge. But this is amazing. Like, the-these rogues have been all over the place without the company knowing. Meanwhile, Google, OpenAI, and Anthropic are moving forward with plans to create their own AI safety standards body 'cause why not let the arsonists run the fire department without government oversight, with a possible launch by the end of this year or early twenty, uh, 2027. Um, a-Nvidia's gonna build guardrails, AI companies are gonna police themselves, uh, which we do not trust, and then there's buybacks everywhere you wanna go.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, let's start with the buybacks. I just don't think people recognize just the scale of this. This is the largest buyback in US history. Uh, a q- it's, it's a quarter of a trillion dollars. That, that... They're buying back more stock than is the value of the majority of the companies in the S&P 500. Now, [sighs] I've been on a bunch of public company boards. We constantly have conversations around stock buybacks, and generally speaking, I don't like them.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm.
- SGScott Galloway
I don't like them for the corporation-
- KSKara Swisher
I know you
- SGScott Galloway
... 'cause basically when you take capital and you buy back stock, what you're saying is, "We have no new ideas to put the capital to use."
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
And I also like putting capital to, to use because it creates jobs, it forces the CEO to think about growth. And essentially, stock buybacks are a bit of an acknowledgment that you're a mature company and you're not growing as fast as you used to, so you're gonna start returning money to the shareholders. And to be clear, this is a very efficient way to return money to shareholders. Now, going to the macro view, if you look at the three parts of our economy, consumers, shareholders/owners, and, uh, workers, everything we've done the last 40 years via regulatory capture has taken money and power from the, um, consumer and the worker and given it to the, uh, shareholder.
- KSKara Swisher
You talk about that a lot. Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, because we've let industries consolidate such that they can raise the rates faster. We have neutered employees' power via destruction of unions or a lack of minimum wage or, or all sorts of regulations that say, "Oh, no, you don't have to pay this person." You know, we, uh, I, I had a bit of a controversy about some comments I made about paternity and maternity leave, but the reality is it's a conversation only held in the lunchrooms of Google and JP Morgan 'cause only 20% of Americans even have access to paid parental leave. So I don't like these on a, on a company level, I don't like these on a macro level. I think when you do stock buybacks, the company should be forced to pay a, a small tax, just as when someone pieces out and takes their equity somewhere else to do lower, get a lower tax rate such that they don't have to pay back the great states of California and Washington and the infrastructure they've provided to create that wealth. I think that's wrong. I think when people borrow against their stock holdings such that they don't incur a taxable event, I think it should trigger a taxable event.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, that's Peter Thiel original. Um, but what, um, w-what does it say? What is it saying here? Why are they doing it? Obviously, the stock has been lower than it, it was on a, you know, a rocket ship-
- SGScott Galloway
Right
- KSKara Swisher
... and then it fell off pretty considerably for its growth.
- SGScott Galloway
It's very strange, but by traditional metrics, arguably the most important company in the world, the, the premier company in the hottest technology in history, feels cheap on a PE level.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, it's trading, it's trading at a lower PE than Walmart-
- KSKara Swisher
Right. So why?
- SGScott Galloway
Or Costco.
- KSKara Swisher
Why? What is the thinking here?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, there's, there's real fear and anxiety around the AI trade right now. There's, there's a non-zero probability that th-these AI agents go rogue, and we're forced to step in and either nationalize these companies or tell them to stop or take a pause, which is not good for business. So is... Selling shovels in a gold rush is great. Using your shovel profits to buy your own stock, it basically says that the shovel seller isn't sure how long the rush is gonna last or how deep the mine is gonna go.
- KSKara Swisher
People like, you know... I remember Chamath Palihapitiya saying this. When they buy back, that's a bad sign.
- SGScott Galloway
It's an acknowledgment you're a mature company.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Like or s- y-you know, and of course, you've said that a lot of times, and it, it... But what, what's... We believe in ourselves, but again, you're right. Can't the, can't they find something else? And, and talk about this, this, this tool they suddenly say they're releasing, that they suddenly have to keep us safe. I mean, obviously they're fighting an uphill battle against this narrative, and even someone who's been much more measured, Ya-Jan LeCun, say the doomerism is going too far, of course, um, but who has been pretty measured about the dangers and the assets kind of thing. But the doomers are winning this particular fight right now. Um, how do you look at what... Now they're saying, "We have a thing that'll fix it. Don't worry. We'll handle it." And then the same thing the companies are saying, the s- They're worried about liability here. I feel like this is all about their li- criminal liability and, and other li- other versions of fraud and, and, um, product liability, et cetera.
- SGScott Galloway
So Nvidia selling guardrails is like an arms dealer selling bulletproof vests.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. [laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
It's a, it's a great, it's a great business model. You get paid on both sides of the law
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, I knew I'd get a good one out of you. [laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
Right?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
It's, uh-
- 8:54 – 19:16
Trump and Xi’s Missed Opportunity
- KSKara Swisher
everyone, and they're always at the White House. They're gonna be here tomorrow, I think. There's gonna... They're gonna be doing yet another appearance. The state dinner brought out a slew of tech leaders, Jeff Bezos, Sam Altman, Mark Zuckerberg were all there, and of course, you had Elon Musk, Jensen Huang, and Tim Cook sitting at the head table with Trump and Xi Jinping, um, the Chinese president. You know, as New York Times' Sean McRiche put it, it was just a fun little dinner for the people deciding the future of humanity. Why does Trump keep supporting this? And we'll get into the Chinese visit, 'cause it doesn't look like anything happened except we got two pandas, um, and maybe extended a trade truce by a couple of months. Um, but w- he, he keeps doubling down on them, Trump does, a- as does Mike Johnson, as do not all the Republicans. A lot of Republicans are, you know, cutting, cutting loose and pulling away.
- SGScott Galloway
Why does he keep doubling down on AI?
- KSKara Swisher
On AI, yeah, and, and Johnson too.
- SGScott Galloway
Because the economy is the lone... Economy and GDP growth is the lone bright spot in the Trump administration right now. The economy is actually... I mean, the deficit is a huge problem. Inflation is a big problem. But the underlying growth of our GDP, the majority of the G7 would kill for it. We're still growing, and growth is important. It's the only way out of a deficit. It's the only way... It, it... Growth, growth and productivity solve not all, but most problems. So his attitude is, if 72% of corporate earnings are coming from the hyperscalers, if 93% of GDP growth is coming from the just unprecedented CapEx spending, then do not get in the way of this. This is the only thing I have going right now. This is my fallback, is to keep asking people how their 401K is doing. But the thing about self-regulation, which is he, he has basically said self-regulate, is it has a track record. We have a history here. It does work for low-stakes products. So for example, the movie ratings, the MPAA, the UCG or PG-13.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Sure.
- SGScott Galloway
Video games have it, the ESRB. But where it fails is for high-stake industries. For example, the Tobacco Research Council. I don't know if you remember that.
- KSKara Swisher
I do.
- SGScott Galloway
You shouldn't, 'cause it didn't work.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Wall Street before 2008, or-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- SGScott Galloway
... Facebook's oversight board, or the new one-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, that. Mm-hmm
- SGScott Galloway
... the CNN editorial board.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Self-regulation is a diet where you're, y- you're the nutritionist and the cake. It just... Y- you need a combi- the, the answer is both, right? Nuclear power has the NRC, airlines have the FAA, and drugs have the FDA. We don't let Boeing certify its jets anymore. We learned that the hard way.
- KSKara Swisher
But he keeps... Like, these dinners, they have been to the White House more than... I, I literally, I'm so sick of seeing these same group of people at the same dinners.
- SGScott Galloway
They have more influence than the cabinet.
- KSKara Swisher
It... Why... I, I was thinking, I was sitting there going Why don't they invite, like, the trucking people there? Why don't they invite... Maybe they're there, but it's these same people in the same critical seats, and I'm kind of like, "Hey, let a, let a, let, let a concrete manufacturer in there sometime, or let, like, another industry." You don't see-- I mean, I know Jamie Dimon was at this dinner. Speaking of which, David Ellison was also at this dinner while they were keeping CNN out of it. Um, but, uh, but it's a really interesting thing is, like, how long this is gonna-- this kind of weird kabuki drama between them is gonna continue. Um, be- And at the same time, they got nothing, which is probably what they wanted, no AI policy at all during the Xi visit, right? And for people who don't know that, I'd love you to th- what you think of what happened the visit. I think most people think nothing. But Anthropic CEO Dario Modi was not at the state dinner. This gang doesn't like him 'cause he's a little bit, like, slower. Um, but he and Trump had their own private dinner Sunday night. I don't-- I haven't found out what they were talking about, but he was, he was there, there at the dinner, I mean, at his own dinner, uh, because I guess he can't d- dine with the others. Um, but y- y- they're-- obviously, they're there having enormous influence, and yet they're-- nothing happened during the summit with our key partner in AI, which would be China.
- SGScott Galloway
It's a mix of courtship and coercion. You blacklist the company on Thursday, and then you invite them, invited CEO for dinner on Sunday. It's not, uh, uh, it's not policy. It's a protection bracket with a wine pairing. It's just-
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
It's so inconsistent.
- KSKara Swisher
Funny today.
- SGScott Galloway
Well-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... the, the metaphors are just so easy. They write themselves right now.
- KSKara Swisher
I know. Yeah, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
We- we're in an arms race with China, then label one of its frontier labs a national security risk. It's, it's benching kind of your starting quarterback during the Super Bowl because he won't go to your barbecue. I mean, it's just... D Scott, and I have never seen two people, such as Dario Amodei and Sam Altman, I've never seen two people more in over their head, ever. And I, I don't wanna say empathize with them, but they have so much pressure to recognize the economic potential that they have built. Their, all their employees must be counting their money, buying houses, thousands of investors who desperately need to show that they know how to invest money, the president putting pressure on them, and at the same time, they have employees saying, "This might be an extinction event."
- KSKara Swisher
Right, a lot of employees, actually, and then, and much evidence that they don't have control of their technology.
- SGScott Galloway
It's like I, I'm on the road, and my 16-year-old, who refuses to go to bed when I'm there, when I'm on the road, he'll call me. He'll FaceTime me in bed because h- he wants guardrails. [chuckles] He's like, "I wanna know the rules by which I play by." And these CEOs, I actually think they're pretty genuine at a minimum. I mean, they wanna shape the AI, or they wanna shape the regulation, but they're saying, "Jesus Christ, just tell me what I'm allowed to do and not allowed to do."
- 19:16 – 20:53
Elon’s Voter Data Grab
- KSKara Swisher
[whooshing] Scott, we're back. With a little over a month to go before election day, there are some questions and concerns about election security, some legitimate, some not. Obviously, they just, New York Times just had a great story showing that all these fraud allegations that Trump had of thousands of voters, it turned out to be zero. Um, but if you're heading to the website VoteSafe.org for answers, information, think twice. The site is run by Elon Musk's America PAC. VoteSafe can collect your name, address, email, phone number, political information, and browsing activity. Its privacy policy says that the information may be shared or sold to business partners. For safe and reliable voting information, go to Vote.gov, even if it's run by the president, it's the official government website, or Vote.org, which is run by a nonprofit, uh, a nonpartisan nonprofit. If you're voting from overseas, there's also VoteFromAbroad.org. Full dis- I just ran into them when I was in, uh, Vienna. Full disclosure, it's run by an organization of Democrats abroad. There's a lot of tricky voting information websites out there that you have to be very careful of, and Elon's at the forefront. Um, early voting is already underway in several states. Um, so are you worried about this, the chaos? I run into a lot of people who remain continually worried about Trump, Elon, and others creating chaos around the election. You know, martial law was brought up last week by some o- uh, some of Trump's outside advisors. I don't think he's capable of doing that, but maybe... I think he's capable of it. I don't think he'll be able to do it. Um, uh, Supreme Court has cleared the way for states to use Trump administration citizen data, uh, uh, database to check ineligible voters, but there's not that many, so it's kind of stupid. It's kind of stupid. What they're trying to do is prevent people from voting. Um, and,
- 20:53 – 29:28
The GOP’s “Craptastic” Midterms
- KSKara Swisher
and just the last part, Trump is reportedly predicting the Republicans will overperform in November, pretty much every other sign pointing the opposite direction. His disapproval rating just hit, uh, 60.4%, the worst either of his two terms, either wor- even worse after January 6th, if you can believe it. Meanwhile, gas is averaging nearly $4.50 a gallon. Mortgage rates have hit above 7%, and we're seven months into the war with Iran with no apparent exit strategy. A lot of Republicans are now calling for that. One Republican advisor gave Axios this assessment of the GOP's midterm outlook: "The numbers are somewhere between shittabulous and craptastic." Um, you know, he's moving into the 20s in approval ratings, by the way, and I think the best joke I heard was he's very excited to get to the teens, 'cause he loves them. What do you think, Scott, about all this? This, uh, this voting thing just drives me crazy. I want people to go and make sure they can vote, but not be tricked by these ridiculous websites that are, um, are PAC websites, essentially.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, well, let's talk about Mu- Let's... Okay, there's, there's a lot there.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Let's start with Musk.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
I, I just don't think... I think history shows that power corrupts, and absolute power absolutely corrupts. And we never look back on history and think this one powerful person should have more power. We just never, almost never think that. And just to be fair, I, I heard Elon Musk speak recently.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
The guy is a, an-
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs] That's why I wasn't there
- SGScott Galloway
... Uh, okay. I'm not saying what event.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
The guy's an enormously big thinker. It is very difficult not to be inspired when you hear that the new Falcon Heavy rocket is gonna have a car- you know, a payload capacity to put a space station in orbit on every launch, and he wants to get to a launch every five minutes. I mean, it just-
- KSKara Swisher
If he can do it
- SGScott Galloway
... And he's building a vehicle that has the greatest thrust in history. It just, uh, uh, you can't help but be inspired by the guy. I, I, I-
- KSKara Swisher
If he can do it, yes, absolutely
- SGScott Galloway
... I want to acknowledge that. Taxes protect us from this type of absolute power and corruption, and I'm not saying... I, I think people should be allowed to make billions and trillions of dollars. I think you wanna let your thoroughbreds run, and this guy, from an innovation standpoint, is Secretariat. It, the concentration of power, we need to have checks on it, and actually taxation, progressive taxation, is a check on that power. As it re- as it relates to VoteSave.org, this is a data harvesting operation wearing a civic costume. This is fucking Halloween. It collects your name, address, politico in- political info, and browsing activity, and then it can sa- s- and then it can sell them. It's basically a f- a fake ATM that skims your card, and it's, and then tells you where to vote.
- KSKara Swisher
So he can then, then, and then, and could tell you bad things. Who knows? Who knows what it's gi- information it's giving him?
- SGScott Galloway
He's done this before. The $1 million a day petition was also a data grab in swing states. He's not doing voter outreach. He's doing voter acquisition. And in politics, the list is the asset. Phone numbers, emails of motivated voters are worth more than the ad. This, again, is list building disguised as public service. To me, uh, and I don't think it's illegal, I think it should be illegal.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And-
- KSKara Swisher
I would agree
- SGScott Galloway
... so anyways.
- KSKara Swisher
It, it... Well, I'm glad he's inspiring, but what do you... I, I think he's also extraordinarily dangerous in this area, in this area of wanting to create chaos, create... You know, why, why lie about who you are if you... You know, just say, "Hey, I'm an Elon..." If he's so open and honest and inspiring, just say, "I'm Elon Musk. I'm for Trump right here, and we'll talk about it, and give me your information." I, I don't... Th- this is, uh, hiding himself is, in plain sight, seems to be a very disingenuous thing to do.
- SGScott Galloway
This is a broader theme and solution we need to move to, and that is we need to move further towards one person, one vote, as outlined initially by our Founding Fathers. We have strayed so far from that. It's a small number of voters and a small number of states and a small number of people and organizations that decide our elections. We need to de-gerrymander the US. In certain states in the South, they have 20, 30% Black voters, but they've figured out a way to not give them any representation. It doesn't matter what you vote in, in California or [chuckles] New York. It doesn't matter for, uh, with respect to national politics. We need, we need huge reform around, uh, Citizens United. We need to de-gerrymander. Just take a, a grid and place it over the US and make congressional districts. And also, we just should not be comfortable with any organization, including the healthcare industry, which is now the biggest political donor, or an individual having this kind of power. It's just not... It's, it's the, it's anathema to the basic notions of a democracy.
- KSKara Swisher
It is. It, I, I mean, I understand. I have been in that inspiring talk by Elon. I have. Uh, I think he doesn't do as much as he says he's gonna do, but he talks a great game. Like, and he does a lot too. He's done a lot. But the question is, does it outweigh this kind of nefarious activity? And also his string of, you know, racist and, and misogynist and anti-trans and sort of going into other co- When I was abroad, everyone there was talking about the way he meddles in other people's politics by supporting right-wing, right-wingers.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, the new American export is political division. He shit-posts Britain. He hasn't been there in three years.
- KSKara Swisher
Germany. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
He's, he's, he's-
- KSKara Swisher
Germany, everywhere else
- SGScott Galloway
... uh, he's exporting polit- American political division. I feel the same way about Musk as I feel about Big Tech, and that is if you had a button to say, "All right, he ends up going into art, and we never hear his name," or you had a button that, where Big Tech could just go away, I don't think you'd wanna push that button. I think these guys and Big Tech, I would argue, as critical as I am of Musk, are a net positive. The problem is with the word net, and that is you can appreciate that he inspired the EV race. You can appreciate-
- 29:28 – 32:15
Big Tech and the Musk Documentary
- KSKara Swisher
Scott, we're back with new, more news actually related to Elon. Meta and YouTube are reversing course and now, will now run ads for Alex Gibney's upcoming Elon Musk documentary after initially rejecting them. Meta, YouTube, and TikTok reportedly refused to run the ads for political content reasons. That explanation didn't make much sense, since we're talking about a movie trailer, not a campaign ad. It's not that hard. Meta now says the rejection was an error, while YouTube says the system temporarily restricted an ad before clearing it following a review. TikTok still isn't running the ads, and no surprise, neither is X. He doesn't have to. I don't really care. How would you promote the film, just very briefly on this one? It seemed kind of stupid by these tech companies to look like they're caring more for Elon
- SGScott Galloway
If I, I were to promote the film, first off-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... I'd edit it down to two hours.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, I just think a four-hour film is, is destined to not be seen by a lot of people.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, also, I hate to say it, but Banned by Big Tech is a great trailer, and money can't buy that. It's, it's the, it's the Streisand effect as a, as a marketing plan.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, that worked this weekend, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Where, where, where would you promote it? I would put billboards across the street from Tesla dealerships, uh, because I think it'd get a lot of attention. I would do projections on the side of X's offices [laughs] and get shut down. Blue Sky threads, Reddit, podcasts, where the audience is already, of Elon-skeptical, highly engaged people, and then theater pre-roll. I love marketing. I used to do m- you know, what was, uh, in brand strategy, we used to talk about media plans. The platform's reversal on this is a tell. Uh, uh, when they said, first they said they wouldn't run it, now they are. Meta called it an error. The error was thinking that no one would notice. And when your first instinct is to block criticism of a billionaire, the algorithm isn't neutral, it's deferential, and that's the problem, is these, the standards, these billionaires have a different set of standards, go, or get to live by a different set of standards. And one of the nice things about America is that we have a series of checks and balances that check, and quite frankly, are sometimes unfair to popular people, and that's healthy. So-
- KSKara Swisher
Exactly. Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... uh, you know, X, X not running it, uh, you know, of course not.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
You, you don't expect the Kremlin state newspaper to run ads for Navalny. I get it.
- KSKara Swisher
Right, yeah. That's true.
- SGScott Galloway
But the other guys?
- KSKara Swisher
That's true. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
If, if they're gonna-
- KSKara Swisher
I know
- SGScott Galloway
... if they're gonna, you know, if they're gonna be whores for, uh, bot farms probably sponsored by the IRGC and the GRU and the CCP, banning an ad for the Musk film doc just comes across as very much different set of standards for rich people.
- KSKara Swisher
It'll be interesting to see what the Ellisons do, 'cause it's supposed to go on HBO, and they will be in control of HBO.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, that's really interesting.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, that should be interesting. We'll see. Uh, 'cause they are close. Actually, Larry Ellison and Musk are very close. Uh, or were.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, Musk considers, uh, Ellison his mentor.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, he does.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, he does. Yeah, yeah, and he's, he's gotten him out of a lot of jams, a lot of jams. Um,
- 32:15 – 37:33
SNL Mocks Dario Amodei
- KSKara Swisher
anyway, lastly, this was, I thought, hysterical. I don't know if you saw SNL. I didn't think it was a very strong show, although J- uh, Jalen Brunson is so adorable. Um, Saturday Night Live took the AI industry's recent doom warnings as Jane Wickline [laughs] playing Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei this weekend. Uh, this clip, I thought this was spot fucking on. Let's see the clip. [whooshing]
- SPSpeaker
You know, you know, you know, uh, thanks for having me, Michael. Um, I may have been alarming in my recent interviews, but I want to assure you that if we can pressure lawmakers to create guardrails, we will be able to stop me. [audience laughing] Dario, can you just explain how your company isn't going to kill us? So, so, so, so, so, so, so that's a really hard question. [whooshing]
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs] It went on where he was talking to himself. At one point he said, "AI is the devil and I'm its maker." He hit a voice. "So, so, so, Scott, what do you think?" I thought it was... Oh
- SGScott Galloway
I, um, I said the comments before. I've never seen two people who are more over their skis. I, I-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... I get the sense, I mean, it's-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... you know. I get the sense Dario's a good man, doing his best.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. He is. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And he woke up and said, "I, I didn't ask to, uh, have all of my fingers near a red button that might launch nuclear missiles if I twitch in my sleep."
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Very Oppenheimer, right?
- SGScott Galloway
Like, what do I... But Oppenheimer had guardrails. [laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, he did. Eventually.
- SGScott Galloway
Oppenheimer didn't get to decide where, uh, where and how, where nuclear bombs would be constructed and who they were dropped on. Other people-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... got to make those decisions, and he was really-
- KSKara Swisher
Right, he still, and he still was agonized over it
- SGScott Galloway
... and he was really freaked out.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And, uh, but this is, again, my go-to analogy. In 1946, would we have let Oppenheimer raise money from Andreessen Horowitz and start selling nuclear devices into Pakistan and Procter & Gamble? These guys are in so far over their head.
- KSKara Swisher
They really are.
- SGScott Galloway
There's a total lack of regulation, a total lack of adult supervision, and they must feel pressure from every which way but loose, but at the same time, these guys own these pit bulls.
- KSKara Swisher
They do.
- SGScott Galloway
These guys own this AR-15, and if they do not secure this shit-
- KSKara Swisher
Which can be very nice dogs when properly trained.
- SGScott Galloway
Pardon?
- KSKara Swisher
Which can be very nice dogs when properly trained, pit bulls.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, yeah, I, pit bulls are wonderful dogs, let me be clear.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
It's some of their owners that aren't wonderful people.
- 37:33 – 47:09
Wins and Fails
- KSKara Swisher
Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Would you like to go first?
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, sure. So my fail is this performative steel plant in Iowa that's gonna cost taxpayers fifteen billion for about seventeen hundred and fifty jobs, so that's roughly nine million dollars per job. You could give every one of these workers lifetime salary, a house, and a boat, and still have money left over for taxpayers. And again, the broader point here is we've genderized politics, and Trump, quite frankly brilliantly, took advantage of the fact that many Americans, especially in the Republican administration, feel like the government and industry has been feminized, and we need to de-gender decisions and just say, "Is it the right decision?" A windmill is not feminine, and Trump going to a steel mill and spending nine million dollars per, per job is performative testosterone. He loves fire, sparks, and hard hats.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
This is-- He thinks he grows more chest hair when he goes to a steel mill and announces its opening.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
The tariffs on steel protect about eighty thousand mill jobs, but they end up taxing millions of workers at downstream production in the supply chain. Automakers, builders, and appliance makers now have higher costs, and they will lose more employees than these tariffs will protect at steel mills. The 2002 Bush steel tariffs, uh, they are estimated to have destroyed a, a lot more jobs than the entire sector, uh, steel sector gained in employment. It's, it's like the equivalent is chemotherapy that's harder on the patient than the underlying tumor. If this is meant to grow jobs, it doesn't. It destroys jobs such that he can have what he feels is like a Rambo performative masculinity. Steel is about thirty percent more expensive than Europe steel and nearly double China's. We did-- We haven't made steel great again, we've just made it more expensive.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, this is nuts. This is nuts.
- SGScott Galloway
So my, my fail is this performative masculinity that is irrational, economically stupid, of opening a steel mill to get a one job for nine million dollars.
- KSKara Swisher
You are a hundred percent correct.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, my win is I always... Well, I think young people, I think it's really important to have role models and say, "This is how I wanna equip myself professionally and personally." And it's okay to change role models or, or, you know, or add new ones and really follow people. And I just absolutely adore and think of role models, um, uh, Timothy Snyder and Applebaum and Heather Cox Richardson. And Heather and Tim, and I just had Tim on my podcast, I have just such immense respect for people who decide to go become historians, which is, generally speaking, not a high pay, high impact position, and they are just having such a moment in being, in my view, such great patriots. They are fearless. They are such compelling communicators. I had Tim on this morning, and he really struck me with a couple points that I just seemed obvious in retrospect, but I thought were so insightful. He said, "If we had spent a fraction of the capital, uh, that we have spent on wars the last thirty years on escalating or speed balling the transition to renewable energy, we might not need to have any of these wars. And a lot of the bad actors that we're fighting against or launching their own wars have benefited from the fact that we haven't transitioned to renewables." I thought that was so insightful. And then the other, I thought, really striking insight, and he showed me some data here, and I just hadn't thought of it this way. He said that, "If we had taken the munitions we've expended on the war in Iran and we'd given them to Ukraine, that the war would already be over." It would've been over. And the fact that he just-
- KSKara Swisher
And we would be rebuilding it, and we would be making money from rebuilding it-
- SGScott Galloway
And-
- KSKara Swisher
... and benefiting from it
- SGScott Galloway
And what Americans need to know, 'cause I'm not sure all Americans know, because as is often the case, there's minority rule that does not represent American interests right now. Americans actually feel very positive about Ukraine and wanna be supportive.
- KSKara Swisher
That's right.
- SGScott Galloway
We have basically abandoned Ukraine. And when Witkoff and Kushner go over-
- KSKara Swisher
Ugh
- SGScott Galloway
... folks, they're essentially parroting Sergei Lavrov and Putin's talking points.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes.
- SGScott Galloway
So if you feel strongly about our support of Ukraine, make sure you speak to your representative and vote for people who have the, the stones to say we need to be more supportive of Ukraine 'cause we have basically abandoned Ukraine. But coming back, my win is I love historians. In people who are fearless and are compelling and are using their platform to, I think, have really powerful, uh, impact on the shape of the world right now. It's a ni- it's kind of in a, it's a really... I, I, it's not only an important moment for them, but it's just nice to see people in industries or professions... Uh, c- I mean, could they have imagined one day I will be influencing-
- KSKara Swisher
No, they're dropping their info. They're dropping their info. It's really, I, you know, I love a historian, too. I ran into Anne at the Atlantic Festival that they had just recently.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, she's wonderful.
- KSKara Swisher
She is. She's a lo- She, let me tell you, she's intense. She's no, she's, like, no fucking nonsense. She's, I'm like, "How are things going?" She goes, "We're on the edge of a precipice." And I'm like, "Oh, okay." [laughs] Like, I just had a really good dough, piece of bread, 'cause they also had this person who made the world, the country's best bread, and I was like, "The bread was good." Like, [laughs] it's so, like, hard. They're intense.
- SGScott Galloway
And Anne's husband is the foreign minister of Poland and a total gangster. And I thought the most powerful moment at the UN, actually, her husband.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
He basically just stared down the Russians and said-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... w- we're, we're ready.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
We're ready, bitch. [laughs] I mean, he's just like-
- 47:09 – 54:14
Cornell 7 Case
- KSKara Swisher
story, which is getting a lot of attention online. What's really interesting, I saw a movie many years ago called Promising Young Woman, who, which has stuck. It's by Emerald-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. Very disturbing film
- KSKara Swisher
... Emerald Fennell. And it's an astonishing movie.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
And it's so upsetting, and literally, I think about it at least once a week 'cause it, it hit me so hard, that movie. Uh, um, I recommend everybody seeing it, but this situation at Cornell where these guys may or may not... Like, look, it's alleged. This woman has now sued them in, um, civil. It looks like they never did any kind of investigation at the time, and they're now reinvestigating it. It's causing a great deal of fervor online, and naming th- this, this one group at Cornell, this, uh, newspaper, I think it's called The Sun, has done m- much of the reporting here, um, and named the names of these people. I think they deserve their time in court. I think they seem to have gotten off rather easily, depending on what happened, and it looks like the, they, uh, the, the prosecutors in the area where Cornell is let the campus police do the investigation, which seems they never did an investigation. Now they're doing it. Um, it's... I have to tell you, the rage of women right now is so under, bubbling under the surface that I think y- y- people are going to s- see some things happening from a voting point of view, because women never, you know, women have to sort of sit there and take it a lot of times. But this story has enraged so many people I know. And so I just think it needs to be, um, uh... The court- the investigation's being reopened after, uh, allegations in the lawsuit. There are texts saying, I'm not gonna re- well, I'm going to. It said, "Free pussy upstairs." Um, uh, and these guys apparently drugged this young underage woman. But the Tompkins County District Attorney, who did not do his job, will revisit the decision not to pursue criminal charges against seven fraternity members. They need to investigate this. There is a anger growing among women about a lot of this stuff, and I think it needs, um... It's really, it's, it's really disconcerting on every single level. And again, I pr- I, I, I would recommend you go watch A Promising Young Woman. It will upset you. It is a mind fuck of a movie, and, um, and y- you should watch it anyway 'cause it's r- it's a really important movie. Um, and that's it. That's what it is. It's like not a really happy thing to talk about, but it was... I'm, I can't believe they didn't do a normal investigation of this situation. I know there's been fake allegations before and everything else, but I think an investigation should have happened and should happen now.
- SGScott Galloway
C- one of the most wonderful things about college is that we think it's a safe place for our kids, and it needs to be a safe place for, for, for, for, for men. I've been horrified by some of the hazing-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... incidents I've been reading about in fraternities. That, that shit's just not acceptable.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, they continue.
- SGScott Galloway
And also, it needs to be a safe place for women, that in the con- in the, i- in the context where there's a lot of alcohol and a lot of drugs and a lot of partying, young men need to be educated that they need to err on the side of protection for everybody, always, and that if they don't, uh, they might end up in jail for the rest of their lives or at a minimum, kicked out of school. And also, what I experienced firsthand with campuses is there's huge incentive for the campuses to try and do what they think is the right thing while kinda minimizing it-
- KSKara Swisher
Right. 100%
- SGScott Galloway
... and sweeping it under the rug because, quite frankly, th- this is a, this is terrible for the Cornell brand.
- KSKara Swisher
It is. It's bad.
- SGScott Galloway
So the, the, the incentives to just sorta say, "L- let's do what we think is right," while ensuring it's, quote-unquote, "not a big deal," leads to i- instances where, no, there should be absolutely, regardless of how poorly it reflects on the, the brand, there should be full, transparent investigations, and I think that is going to happen here.
- KSKara Swisher
It is. It's just that this guy, like, they used this Tompkins County District Attorney used the campus police invest- investigation, and these guys, what are they? Like, you know, an imbecile with a badge to, as my experience-
- SGScott Galloway
I, I don't think that's fair. I, I worked with the UCPD at UCLA, and I found them very competent.
- KSKara Swisher
UCPD is a level up. Yes, a v- level up, but they shouldn't be doing this investigation. This should be done by authorities, and to rely on their investigation-
- SGScott Galloway
Right, or, or people with specific domain expertise around this crime.
- KSKara Swisher
Correct.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
That is the-
- SGScott Galloway
Fair enough. Fair point
- KSKara Swisher
... I can't believe they relied on this. And look, I had some not great ones [chuckles] when I went to Georgetown, but I'm sure there's a lot of very good campus police, but they shouldn't be doing sexual assault investigations, period. Period, end of story. I hope this investigation goes well and goes fairly for everyone. At the same time, it's a real fail on behalf of Cornell management, um, and especially when they had two of them write an essay on what they did wrong, and someone said, "Release the essay files" I think we need to do more than that. Anyway, uh, we wanna hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to NYMag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show, or call 855-51-PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott Universe this week, uh, on On, I'm speaking with legendary Silicon Valley venture capitalist and Scott Galloway's favorite person, Sir Michael Moritz. His new book, Auslander, uh, Scott, it actually is a really good book, is all about his family members who escaped Nazi Germany and those who died in the Holocaust. We talked about the parallels to modern politics and, by the way, power people, uh, and how powerful people have folded to Trump. Mike's been actually outspoken on, compared to a lot of Silicon Valley people on the other side. Let's listen to a clip. [swish]
- SPSpeaker
[sighs] You know, one of the things that happens when you have an authoritarian with a lot of control, no matter how many protections everybody feels, uh, there might be, uh, in the United States, before you know it, you have the weakening and the hollowing out of the institutions of state with all of their flaws that people have come to rely on. And to me, it's like, you know, termites or dry rot.
- KSKara Swisher
[swish] Anyway, it's a really interesting interview.
- SGScott Galloway
Can I just say, I, I just wanna comment on that. Um, I did not have a good professional experience with, with Sir Michael. Having said that, he has been a powerful, uh, voice around antisemitism, and, uh, I like what Sam Harris said, that if you're wealthy and have people who love you unconditionally, which I know the first, and I assume, uh, the former, I assume, and the latter with Mike, he is speaking what he believes is truth to power, and I admire that.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, he it is. It is. It's not just antisemitism. He's, he's been standing up in a lot of ways that other people have not.
- SGScott Galloway
Yep.
- KSKara Swisher
And, uh, he also started the SF Standard, a newspaper there, competing newspaper.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, he bought a media company, right?
Episode duration: 54:15
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