PivotKristi Noem Fired — Her New Role Sounds Like a “Bad Marvel Movie” | Pivot
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
65 min read · 12,700 words- 0:00 – 0:55
Intro
- SGScott Galloway
We used to be the cop or the protection when we hear a knock at the door. Now we are the knock at the door.
- SPSpeaker
[upbeat music]
- KSKara Swisher
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- SGScott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- KSKara Swisher
And where are you, Scott?
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, somewhere over the North Atlantic, Kara. Where are you?
- KSKara Swisher
All right. I am in my studio in DC, but we, we recorded-
- SGScott Galloway
Cory, maintain eye contact.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughing]
- SGScott Galloway
Maintain eye contact.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughing] Is Corey Lewandowski with you?
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, Lewandowski. Yeah. So I'm fairly certain-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... he's not gonna keep his job either.
- KSKara Swisher
I'm guessing. Well, let me just give people... Back it up for a minute. Scott, we recorded earlier, but had to hop back on, hence why you're on a plane, and, and I'm, and we're redoing this. President Trump has fired Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem
- 0:55 – 13:47
Kristi Noem Out
- KSKara Swisher
or given her a fake job. Trump announced the move on Truth Social, saying Noem had served us well and had, has had numerous and spectacular results. He announced the Republican senator, Markwayne Mullin, would replace Noem. Noem is stepping into a new role, apparently. She wasn't quite fired. I don't know what this is. It's like a firing, kind of.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh no, she was fired.
- KSKara Swisher
I get it. Her new [chuckles] -- Her-
- SGScott Galloway
She's like special envoy to Hulu-
- KSKara Swisher
No, she's-
- SGScott Galloway
... original programming or something.
- KSKara Swisher
No, she's [chuckles] special envoy, let's get it right, special envoy to the Shield of the Americas. I, I, I don't even... That's like a bad Marvel movie, I feel like. Like, the one that we don't wanna watch. But let's talk about this 'cause, uh, uh, later in the show, you have, uh, we, we'll be talking about a lot of things happening right now for the, for the Republicans. But, um, talk to me about this firing a little bit.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, supposedly... I mean, you might have more information than me on this, but supposedly it wasn't the conflict of interest of having an affair with her number two. It wasn't, uh, uh, essentially killing American citizens. It wasn't, it wasn't essentially overseeing what I would argue are the definition of concentration sy- camps, and that was black sites outside the legal jurisdiction or protection of your, of your, um, origin country, which is the definition of a concentration camp. It was... Supposedly what was the straw that broke Trump's back was that she had spent close to or over two hundred million dollars, I believe, on ads featuring her, which appeared to be, uh, courtesy of her, her number two, an attempt to raise her own awareness for a presidential run, that that, that that was what angered Trump. What have you heard, Kara?
- KSKara Swisher
She was advantaging herself, and Trump likes to only advantage himself, right? And so anybody else who's trying to do that... There was also the question, these two recent congressional hearings, to me I, w- I felt the writing was on the wall because Republicans in the Senate particularly were really going after her. So they knew that they had no repercussions to do so, right? If they had gone after her because they were good people or 'cause they had a, a backbone, I think only Tom Tillis has been doing that 'cause he's leaving. Um, uh, this is Senator Tillis from North Carolina. I think she, uh... I think they had permission to go after her, whether it was, uh, uh, Kennedy, uh, John Kennedy or, uh, or others that really did attack her. Um, and the Democrats did an excellent job too, bringing up all these issues you talked about. I just felt like it was open season on her, so to speak, someone who enjoys killing dogs. And, you know, even the reaction has been interesting. Uh, Senator Tom Tillis, uh, who was very upset about the disaster relief fuck-ups, I think very much so, and abo- also about fu- uh, getting rid of people, uh, g- I mean, going after people who didn't commit any crimes, right? Just in terms of, uh, he kept talking about a quota system, "Why are you doing it on a quota system?" in, in these hearings. He... H- his, uh, his thing on X saying goodbye was, "Senator Markwayne Mullin is a great guy and a great choice to lead DHS, restore competence, and refocus efforts on quickly distributing disaster aid," that's the first thing he noted, "keeping the border secure, and targeting violent illegal immigrants for deportation. Another big positive, he likes dogs," um, which of course is a reference to, to, uh, her, her killing, uh, her dog. Um, people are having a field day about this, of course, uh, on the thing, although one of the good ones about Markwayne Mullin, who is a senator from Oklahoma, was, uh, he can't even have a border between his name, uh, Mark and Wayne, Markwayne. Um, but no, they, they, you know, people... The Republicans felt emboldened to attack her, and therefore it was very clear that they got their signals from the White House, would be my guess.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, that just goes to what a, a poor manager and what a low character person, uh, spoiler alert, the president is, and that is when you hire people and you expect them to be part of a team, if you know you're gonna fire them, which it sounds like he did because it took about three seconds, the moment they announced she was leaving, they announced her replacement, to quite frankly trot her out and use her as an anger pillow and humiliate her before showing her the door, knowing that you were gonna fire her, as opposed to saying, "Look, we're making a change. There's no reason for you to go in front of Congress," or, "Once you resign, you probably will not be called." Maybe, maybe they still would have called her in front of Congress.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, that, that last two days in Congress was bad.
- SGScott Galloway
But that was, "Okay, we have absolutely no respect, fidelity, camaraderie for the people I hire, and if it serves my political purposes, I will throw them under the bus and then back up the bus-
- KSKara Swisher
Well, that's the-
- SGScott Galloway
... and run over them again."
- KSKara Swisher
That's the Trump way, right? That's the Trump way. And in fact, he doesn't even give her the, "I, I don't think she deserves any dignity," the dignity of just firing her, like, "You're fired." I mean, the guy who's so famous for doing "You're fired" cannot say, "You're fired." You have to give him this Sh- special envoy to the Shield of the Americas, which... And of course she's bragging as if she won, right? As if it was a good thing because, uh, like, even as she's humiliated, and by the next humiliation, by the way, is gonna be Pam Bondi, right?That's obvious. He's gonna go-- All the ladies, as, you know, of the Trump administration are in big trouble, um, and they will be the first to go. They'll get to Kash Patel at some point, or maybe not, but, like, another incompetent, another... You know, same thing with Pam Bondi, mendacious and incompetent. Um, and so y-he doesn't-- The fact that he hasn't let go so many of these people already who are just not up to the task is really-- says a ton about his management style.
- SGScott Galloway
I think they're more strategic than people want to give them credit for. And when I was a consultant, I was just-- And I would review decks of associates going in to present to a management team. I would say-- I would ask a series of questions, and one of the questions I would ask, but I would say-- I would ask, "Who's in the room that's not in the room?" And that is what is the context, what is the influences, what is the overarching theme of the vibe in this room or their objectives before you even show up? And the two people that are always in the room around any Trump official and any public activity are, one, Roy Cohn. If you look at the way these people equip themselves in front of the Senate and the Congress, one of the greatest erosions in the brand equity of the United States is there has always been a level of civility and decorum. We aren't that South Korean senate where they break into fisticuffs or they start yelling at each other. There was always a certain amount of respect. But this Roy Cohn deny, deflect, uh, o-obfuscate, attack, you're, you're a, you're, you're a-- "You should be ashamed of yourself. You're a failed lawyer. Go on, don't answer the question," that has in and among itself eroded the value and the prestige of the Senate. Roy Cohn is always in the room when these guys testify. The person that's always in the room is Epstein. And I believe there are three people armed with LLM saying, "Monitoring the temperature of Epstein in the news, and when it gets above a certain temperature, they think of distractions." And nothing is better than one of these hearings or declaring war or saying you're gonna raise tariffs to fifty percent. But I literally think they have-- they are monitoring the, the number of times Epstein and Trump are linked together. When it gets above a certain temperature in the press, they, they, they throw someone under the bus, announce a tariff, [laughs] start, start firing missiles, whatever it might be, you know, uh, capturing or, uh, absconding with, with, um, leaders of Central American countries. But Roy Cohn and Jeffrey Epstein are in every room.
- KSKara Swisher
That's really smart. That's a re-- Uh, and the Epstein stuff is not going away, let me just say. It is not, it is n- as I said a half a year ago, it is n- it is here to stay, like, it's the thing. But to, to Kristi Noem's credit, she did not go to the island on her fuck plane, um, so that's a good, that's a good part of her. But we wish you well, Kristi. You're completely incompetent and deserve to be fired. Um, but the fact that he kept you there that long says more about Donald Trump than it does about Kristi Noem. She, she's is what she is, I guess. Anyway-
- SGScott Galloway
I heard she's gonna be-
- KSKara Swisher
Right
- SGScott Galloway
... volunteering at an all kill dog shelter.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, very funny. I mean, that's gonna, that's gonna go to the end of her days, and deservedly so. Anyway, uh, now back to the rest of the show. And guess where I went last night?
- SGScott Galloway
Where'd you go?
- KSKara Swisher
Party for, uh, Andrew Ross Sorkin at the French Embassy, our favorite Canadian.
- SGScott Galloway
I was not invited.
- KSKara Swisher
I know. It was by Puck, and he got the First Amendment Award. He gave a-- He gave such a good speech. He's, like-
- SGScott Galloway
He's a very talented guy
- KSKara Swisher
... he's such a nice boy. I don't know what else to say.
- SGScott Galloway
Very talented.
- KSKara Swisher
He's a nice boy. He gave an excellent speech about the First Amendment, and he, he said everyone thinks he's Canadian, 'cause we say that's the case. [laughs] He now is asked about his Canadian citizenship.
- SGScott Galloway
He's a lovely man. I like his wife too. His wife, they're, they're a very impressive couple.
- 13:47 – 22:05
Iran War Has “Just Begun”
- KSKara Swisher
Let's dig in. First, uh, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth says the war in Iran is far from over, warning that we've only just begun. It was such a ridiculous press conference. As a record, the House is set to vote on a measure to block President Trump from taking further action in Iran without congressional support, and the Senate already failed to do that, by the way. European leaders are pushing back on Trump, notably Spain's prime minister, who said, "We can't play Russian roulette with the destiny of millions of people." He's absolutely correct. Tr- the White House said they were cooperating, and then they said they weren't. Um, Trump is also facing pushback from parts of his MAGA base over the war, even as he insists, "MAGA loves what I'm doing." They do not love what he's doing. And looking at the economic impact, US gas prices saw their biggest single-day spike in three years this week, and oil prices continue to rise. Um, this drag on the, uh, in the US economy is gonna be very tough for Trump and, and the Republicans as we approach the midterms. I've been, uh, I've been talking to a lot of Republicans. In fact, had a meeting with a very prominent one yesterday, um, and they are... They... I can tell you, they do not like this. Or they, they think Pete Hegseth is, is an imbecile, that's for sure, and they don't think this was well thought out at all, I think, and that's, that's the Republicans, and these are people who maybe publicly are being supportive by at least voting against his- the restrictions on Trump. What, what are your thoughts about the economy, what's happening here?
- SGScott Galloway
It really hasn't taken much of a hit yet. It's the existential threat that it could digress into something much bigger and more dangerous. Uh, the, uh, oil is up about 11, 11 bucks a barrel, or 10%, uh, or 12%, which translates to about 25 cents a gallon. Typically, typically wars, the markets go down, and then they check back, and actually, the year after a war ends, markets typically outperform. So I don't think you can say that the markets have responded or that we know this is gonna be inflationary.
- KSKara Swisher
No, there hasn't been. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
What, what I think you can say is that I believe if he had gone to Congress and made an argument for why we're doing this, why now, and what are our objectives, he might have gotten an- the authorization for the use of military force. They, they never get declarations of war any longer. They get AUMFs. But unfortunately, what they've done is because they had to position this as a defensive action, they said, "Oh, one of our allies was about to be imminently attacked. We were gonna have to respond." So it's like, okay, you just gave into this very dangerous trope-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- SGScott Galloway
... that Israel's controlling the US.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes. Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
That was just... And you have had such inconsistent messaging.
- KSKara Swisher
Absolutely.
- SGScott Galloway
This is regime change. No, we don't want regime change. This is gonna be five days. We'll be there as long as it takes.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
This is a special-
- KSKara Swisher
Now the Kurds. We're bringing the Kurds in.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. Now we're gonna o- operate the Kurds. Well, okay, what does that mean when the Kurds get fired up in other regions? This is a special combat operation. No, it's a war. The, uh, uh, they have so much inconsistent messaging, and the fact that they didn't reflect the confidence to, at a minimum, think about the American citizens in the Gulf and a plan for getting them out of there-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, that seems like... makes Biden's Afghanistan withdrawal seem, like, minor.
- SGScott Galloway
In, in addition, just, just tactically-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- SGScott Galloway
... uh, tactically bombing Tehran, the, the, the majority... The, the real danger here is that the Iranian people are not on our side, turn against us, uh, because what the Iranian biggest miscalculation was firing... They, they basically... Jon Stewart summarized it as two guys start beating up on you, so what do you do? You try and start a fight with everyone in the bar. That was a real strategic mistake on the part of Iran. But our potentially biggest mistake is when we're bombing Tehran, you're essentially flattening s- neighborhoods of people who are probably more pro-West-
- KSKara Swisher
Yep
- SGScott Galloway
... and empathetic. It's the, the-
- KSKara Swisher
The girls at the wa-
- SGScott Galloway
... kind of religious, the theo- theocracies in the rural areas. So-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- SGScott Galloway
... no one really trusts... I think the why, why now, and objectives had legitimacy here, and he potentially could have got 77% of Republicans are, or 72% of Republicans are in favor of this. Only 17% of progressives-
- KSKara Swisher
But that's low. 72% of Republicans is low. It's usually 95%.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, well, well, the, the, the broader number is 41/59, so let's be clear.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
The majority of Americans do not-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... support this. I still think had he had a well-thought-out plan, he could have gotten potentially-
- 22:05 – 31:10
Tuesday’s Primaries
- KSKara Swisher
Um, the first primaries of the 2026 midterms, here are some of the highlights from Tuesday's elections. In Texas, incumbent Senator John Cornyn and Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton are headed to a late May GOP Senate runoff. The GOP clash is already the most expensive Senate primary in history, with Republicans alone racking up nearly a hundred million dollars in ad buys. Um, Trump is supposedly gonna pick one and tell the other to get out, but Ken Paxton's already said he's not getting out, even if he doesn't get picked. Um, and State Representative James Talarico beat, uh, Representative Jasmine Crockett in Texas' Democratic Senate primary. Let's listen to a clip from Talarico's victory speech.
- SGScott Galloway
"To the billionaires who have taken over our state and taken over our country, your unchecked power is coming to an end" [crowd cheering] "Your days dividing working people are numbered"
- KSKara Swisher
Ooh, he sounds like a guy we should hang out with. Um, good, good, good, it was a good speech. And actually, I have to say, Crockett, uh, handled the, the defeat well. Uh, they seemed to come together. Everyone's-
- SGScott Galloway
Agreed
- KSKara Swisher
... like, "We're all gonna come together." Um, and, uh, they both ran really tough campaigns, and, and then they, they... I have to say, everybody acted... The [chuckles] Democrats look like they're not, uh, d-in disarray, as they say. Uh, Texas Supreme Court stepped in to block a last-minute voting extension in two counties after GOP primary polling mix-ups, uh, backing an appeal from Ken Paxton. It seemed like he was just trying to create chaos. In North Carolina, former Governor Roy Cooper won the Democratic Senate primary quite easily and will face Republican Michael Whatley, uh, for, uh, Senator Thom Tillis's seat in a race that could help decide Senate control. Um, so interesting stuff going on there. A lot of people lost their jobs. Um, Dan Crenshaw lost his job. Uh, he was targeted by a billionaire, speaking of billionaires, who spent enormous amounts of money to get rid of him. In North Carolina, the head of the state senate, who'd been in power for a long, long time, uh, is in a very tight race. A lot of people losing, losing their jobs, like, all over the place. So, uh, what do you think, uh, this means for Democrats this year and for Republicans?
- SGScott Galloway
It's very exciting for Democrats. The, I mean, the Talarico race. Uh, first off, if Talarico wins the seat against the Republican nominee, I think he's likely or very likely to be the vice presidential pick in 2028 because if he w-wins this and shows an ability to win in Texas, if as VP they think he could deliver Texas, it's game over for whoever'sFor the, the Democrats win.
- KSKara Swisher
Interesting.
- SGScott Galloway
If you could flip Texas in a presidential race-
- KSKara Swisher
Don't you think he should stay there for a little bit? Get, amass power?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, how long did, how long was Obama senator?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, you're right. Yeah, that's right.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean-
- KSKara Swisher
Four years, four seconds
- SGScott Galloway
... they, they do the, the VP is supposed to be the person who could take over. It's not. The VP is brought on to hopefully win a state that is a swing state, for the most part. Anyways, so it's excite- It's an exciting moment for Talarico, but what's really exciting for Democrats is that through the odds, the majority or the number of Democrats turning out in a primary was in the high hundreds of thousands-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, high
- SGScott Galloway
... seven or 800,000. 2.1 million Democrats turned out, and the ver- The, the, the other very exciting thing is that I think it was 1.8 million Republicans turned out.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
So whoever, whoever, whatever party is able to turn out more people for the primary-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- SGScott Galloway
... gives you real insight into what's gonna happen in the general.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, especially among Hispanics. He really pulled in, the, he shifted them really.
- SGScott Galloway
And if we have the first Texas statewide Democrat elected in 20 or 30 years-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, Lloyd Benson-
- SGScott Galloway
... that's gonna be-
- KSKara Swisher
... was the last one.
- SGScott Galloway
What's that?
- KSKara Swisher
Lloyd Benson was the last one, I think.
- SGScott Galloway
I thought it was Ann Richards.
- KSKara Swisher
No, no. She was governor.
- SGScott Galloway
She was governor. There you go. So th- this is an exciting, This is just a super exciting moment, uh, for Democrats.
- 31:10 – 39:05
OpenAI vs. Pentagon vs. Anthropic
- KSKara Swisher
updated its deal with the Pentagon, adding language that says, uh, its AI systems, quote, "Shall n- shall not be intentionally used for domestic surveillance." CEO Sam Altman wrote, "It's critical to protect the civil liberties of Americans," but in an all-hands meeting this week, Sam told staff that OpenAI had no control over how the Defense Department uses its software. And while, uh, defending the deal in the Pentagon, he acknowledged that rolling it out so quickly made the company look, quote, "Opportunistic and sloppy." That's the, the opportunistic and sloppy is the poor name of, of OpenAI. Sam said it's been painful to try to do the, quote, "right thing" and then get, quote, "personally crushed for it." Oh my God, Sam, this is so... He needs to stop talking, I've gotta say. Um, it's a question of whether he's, uh, actually tarnished the brand too much in his actions. Um, ChatGPT uninstalls surged two hundred and ninety-five percent the day after the Pentagon deal was announced. Claude downloads continue to spike. Meanwhile, um, uh, Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei told his staff that the Trump administration didn't like Anthropic because it didn't, uh, it, it hadn't given, um, dictator-style praise to Trump while Sam has. He really laid into... They, they-- There's-- If you think Elon Musk and Sam Altman have a problem, Dario Amodei and Sam Altman have a problem. So what do you think about this? This is like a m- a real... Oof, God, something's going on over there at OpenAI that they really need to fix.
- SGScott Galloway
I think of it on the other side and, you know, as, as people know, we're gonna be at Resist and Unsubscribe in Minneapolis on Sunday, and the way we're evolving it is we're now gonna, m- um, try and encourage people to sign up for who we think are good actors, and the most obvious contrast here is the contrast between OpenAI and Anthropic. And I've been saying for six months that I thought one of the biggest commercial opportunities was for a CEO basically to say no and say, "These are-- We're, we're done enabling these type of, this type of depraved behavior. We're not gonna engage in the violation of Americans', Americans' rights." And the hero we didn't think we needed is Dario Amodei. He's basically stepped up, and he said no, and just to the point of it being a huge commercial opportunity, uh, he, uh, Anthropic immediately surged to number one in the App Store, and its annual recurring revenue has gone from fourteen billion to nineteen billion in just one week. So this is going to be... This is a big moment because what Dario and Anthropic have done, even if they don't realize it, is they're all of a sudden g- gonna give a bunch of CEOs across America the confidence to-
- KSKara Swisher
Agreed
- SGScott Galloway
... start saying no.
- KSKara Swisher
Yep.
- SGScott Galloway
Because I thought it was gonna be Nike, but we said this six months ago, it's a huge commercial opportunity.
- KSKara Swisher
It's gotta be a tech person.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but it's a-
- KSKara Swisher
Since tech has been so in bed with Trump, it's gotta be a tech person doing it. That's my-
- SGScott Galloway
Fair point, but the, the point is the opportunity here-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- SGScott Galloway
... was for someone to just stand up and say, "Enough already. I'm, I'm not going to. I'm done." And-
- KSKara Swisher
I'll tell you, a lot of Republican senators really have not liked the way Hegseth has handled... I, I've been talking to a lot of them. Quietly, they have been saying this, but-
- SGScott Galloway
It's anti-capitalist.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, it's very-- They're very not disposed. They're like, "When did we become communists," essentially. And, and one of the things that'll be interesting, I mean, sort of Anthropic is a little like, um, what Tom Tillis has been doing. He's left, but he has enormous leverage over the Trump administration now 'cause he can say things, and so ins- he says, "This sucks," to Pete Heg- or, "Stephen Miller sucks," right? He does say it outright, and then others say, "Well, I'm not really liking some of the things that Stephen Miller..." It gives them the courage to say slightly less critical things, and I think that's a great way to be, and Dario is sort of-
- SGScott Galloway
Or just to say no
- KSKara Swisher
... playing that role.
- SGScott Galloway
If you're-
- KSKara Swisher
I get it, but he's playing the role of a heat shield in a lot of ways.
- SGScott Galloway
If you're Anduril, you get to make weapons for the government. It's legal.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
If you're, if you're, um, Palantir, you get to sell data to the government as long as it's legal and-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- SGScott Galloway
... for whatever purposes they might use it for, and if you're Anthropic, you get to work with who you want.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
You can't do it based on... You can't discriminate or not work with people based on their sexual orientation or their eth-ethnicity, but they can absolutely. We get to decide who we take ads from. We, we, we say no all the time to advertisers and say, "No, we're not comfortable with it." Uh, the op- w- what the, the big thing here is that s- in one week, C- uh, Claude went from number forty-two to number one in the free App Store. So this is... I, I mean, this is a big moment. This is a turning point 'cause I-- Just trust me on this. In the next thirty days, all of a sudden we're gonna see these, these CEOs cosplaying Nelson Mandela and acting all righteous.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, do you think? I don't know. I don't know about that. One of the things that was interesting, there was a poll out, an Emerson poll, I can't remem- No, it wasn't Emerson. It was a, it was a more, uh, normal poll, um, that said that people want CEOs to remain neutral, but they also want them to be genuine. So they kind of like this, you know? Even though they say they don't want companies to weigh in, they kinda do, which is interesting. People answer differently. I do think people do vote, like with Resist and Unsubscribe, if you don't like how ChatGPT... I-- So many people have told me they have dumped ChatGPT more than any of the other ones, and Amazon would be the second one when they come up to me to ask me about your efforts with Resist and Unsubscribe. It's always Amazon and ch- and OpenAI that they focus in on. That's what I've noticed.
- SGScott Galloway
But we haven't had an option to the upside. We haven't had a carrot just to stick.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Great idea.
- SGScott Galloway
And this has given everyone the ability to say, "All right. My lack of spending is a signal, but my spending can also be a signal."
- 39:05 – 47:41
Paramount-WBD Deal Momentum
- KSKara Swisher
who I love to call a moron, 'cause he is, says he expects the Warner Brothers Paramount merger deal to get through approval pretty quickly. Of course, you lapdog. Let's listen to what he said when asked about whether he would have concerns about the Netflix deal.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, there was a lot of concerns in DC, and you can see it already. Just the scope and scale on the streaming service in particular, they would have a very difficult path forward from a regulatory perspective. This deal, uh, is a lot cleaner, does not raise at all the same types of concerns. I think there's some real consumer benefits that could emerge from it.
- KSKara Swisher
Uh, he's right about it. It was obviously. They're smaller. That's, that's right, Brendan. But Brendan has nothing to do with this deal, and he always mouths off on everything. Um, meanwhile, Fitch Ratings, one of the Wall Street's big credit rating agencies, has cut Paramount's credit ratings to junk status. No surprise, enormous debt, I think from seventy-five to a hundred billion dollars in debt. It's a big, it's a big chunk of money. They say they're gonna deleverage quickly, but it's always hard, as Bill Cohen noted. Um, and David Zaslav, also not looking so good, president and CEO of Warner's, he's looking good to shareholders, filed to sell over a hundred and fourteen million dollars worth of stock in the company. He's getting pilloried by, 'cause it's very clear that, um, that, uh, Paramount will have to cut. They say six billion. It's much higher. Um, uh, you know, I-- Carr does not play a role here, just, just for people to understand, a real role. Um, but it will get through. It probably will. You know, they've been working Europe. They've been working the government. Um, it- it's just a question of how they get through and, and what damage, uh, they have done by doing this very non-economic deal. Um, any more thoughts on that?
- SGScott Galloway
When the book on the worst acquisitions in history-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- SGScott Galloway
... is written, it should just be called Warner Brothers.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs] It's true.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, if you, if you ra- if you ran into-
- KSKara Swisher
That's funny
- SGScott Galloway
... Time Warner executives in two thousand and five.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Steve Case, super smart. He realized that-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... AOL had nowhere near the value it was trading at.
- KSKara Swisher
No.
- SGScott Galloway
So he said, "This is a time to trade it in for boring revenues that come from records and books and parks and movies."
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And if you find a Time Warner executive two or three years later, literally their retirements were ruined because of what was the worst acquisition, uh, in history, and that's Time Warner's merger with AOL. And AOL within, like, thirty-six months was worth ten percent of what Time Warner had to pay for it and give up. And then AT&T bought Time Warner and then barely... and then had to take a c- had to take a haircut.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And then Time Warner merged-
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs] I know. It's true
- SGScott Galloway
... with Discovery.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And basically, it turned into just a giant, uh, public benefit organization. It's like basically the merger between Discovery and Warner Brothers is if David Zaslav had been honest, he would have stood up and said, "Look, this can make me almost a billionaire-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... regardless of whether I destroy or make shareholder value."
- KSKara Swisher
He certainly didn't improve it. He didn't improve it.
- SGScott Galloway
It, it did not... It's underperformed the S&P by any stretch of the imagination.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
He's a brilliant investment banker, and he's gonna walk away with seven hundred million dollars. Whatever.
- 47:41 – 53:13
Social Media Beef
- KSKara Swisher
have some social media beef. I can't believe I just read that. McDonald's posted a video of its CEO eating the company's Big Arch, uh, Burger last month, and while he says he was taking a big bite, the bite was small. He also called it the product. Uh, the video went viral because of the discrepancy, and then on the day of the release of the Big Arch, Burger King posted a video of its president eating a Whopper burger at a more enthusiastic fashion than the rest of them. There's a Wendy's one. I think there's a Taco Bell. I don't know. There's so many of them now. Um, and, and while it, it was... What did you think? Like, very briefly, what did you think of this? It's kind of fascinating. It really took off, the burger eating situation. Funny? Stupid?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, what, what no one wanted to talk about was-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- SGScott Galloway
... there was a CEO of McDonald's who I think died of colorectal cancer in his late 40s.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh.
- SGScott Galloway
Um-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, whoa
- SGScott Galloway
... like, I, I don't... [laughs] Yeah, that, that's a real pick-me-up story.
- KSKara Swisher
Wow. Thanks, Scott. [laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
[laughs] Um, yeah, I don't know why I brought that up.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I don't, I... What, what do you... I could not be less interested in this story other than to say that-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, it's interesting
- SGScott Galloway
... other than to say that I want, I want [laughs] to buy... I, I, I've been, as, as I'm sure you are, I've been talking to all these presidents, uh, presidential candidates who call me for ideas-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- SGScott Galloway
... which is their way of saying, "Send me money." I'm like, "Negotiate, buy a billion doses of, of a GLP-1 dr- uh, drug."
- KSKara Swisher
Right. Yeah. Actually, these businesses are under siege. You're absolutely right.
- SGScott Galloway
Distribute it to rural communities.Uh, if you wanna, if you wanna solve the deficit, all roads lead to healthcare.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
If we wanna reduce healthcare costs, all roads, in my opinion, lead to GLP-1.
- KSKara Swisher
All right.
- SGScott Galloway
And that the best-
- KSKara Swisher
Well
- SGScott Galloway
... investment we could make, I, I think, I think fast food... By the way, I, I gotta be honest.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
I look forward-- The only thing I'm, the only thing I like about travel-
- KSKara Swisher
In and out
- SGScott Galloway
... is if I'm at an airport, I grant myself the luxury of eating McDonald's. I have a general rule.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
I don't eat fast food or go to strip bars in cities I live in-
- 53:13 – 1:02:10
Predictions
- KSKara Swisher
um, let's hear a prediction. I have something very quickly to say-
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm
- KSKara Swisher
... in the prediction department. I, uh, uh, for people who didn't notice, there was a story, uh, again, on, uh, bots again about, uh, problems with wrongful deaths and suicides. This time it's Google with Gemini AI chatbot coached a man towards suicide, and it is... The story is devastating. This is an adult, not a chi- not a young person, not at, someone underage, but, uh, it's still, uh, just as devastating, th- th- it, what it did and what it told him to do, and it made him go to places and look for things in order to find a robot to put this digital girlfriend into. Um, I have to say, I, I predict some really significant legislation around this in a way that is probably gonna be too reactive and at the same time, um, uh, it necessary because of the way these companies are conducting their, their chatbots that interact with people on a personal level. And they have done nothing to, to rein the man, um, and so the, I think there's gonna be a flood of things around how we interact with technology, uh, that's gonna be bipartisan and pretty ugly for the tech companies. Go ahead. I've been talking about this for years, but I think-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, and I didn't mean to make light of fast food. That, there was that mass shooting at a fast food restaurant-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- SGScott Galloway
... where the guy was screaming, "You've ordered your last McRib," and then one of the workers said, "Sir, this is a Wendy's."
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, my God. [laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
That's so wrong, Kara.
- KSKara Swisher
It's so wrong. [laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
That's so wrong.
- KSKara Swisher
Anyway, anyway, what's your prediction?
- SGScott Galloway
You know, [sighs] I wanna take some license here, and I wanted to talk, I wanted to do kind of a, a fail and a win, and that is, um, I just, I watched, um, one of my living heroes is, uh, Madam, uh, Secretary Clinton. It's the only person I've ever canvassed for, and I saw what I saw, uh, when I saw, I watched her entire testimony. I just thought the level of sexismWas so fucking insane, um, and that is, um, so first off, when is the last time a man was asked repeatedly to explain his wife's behavior or actions? And the, the, the absurdity of holding wives accountable for husbands, and here's what's so incredibly fucked up about this. We live in a world-
- KSKara Swisher
I don't hold they ought it responsible for you, so go ahead
- SGScott Galloway
... we live in a world where a woman with her own fifty-year career in public service, senator, secretary of state, presidential candidate, gets hauled in front of a committee and asked to explain what her husband did. Not what you did, what he did. And also there's this implicit assumption that like, "And why didn't you stop him?" And we've seen the same bullshit for decades. When a powerful man does something wrong, we turn to his wife and ask, "Where were you? Why didn't you know? Why didn't you leave him? Why are you still with him?"
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, she's often... Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And we never ask the inverse. When a woman in power screws up, we don't haul her husband in and ask him to explain her choices.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
We don't demand he account for her behavior.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
We don't ask, "Why did you stay with her?"
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
Because implicit in all this is this-
- KSKara Swisher
Well, we, we do ask that, but go ahead
- SGScott Galloway
... implicit in all th-this is this assumption that men are autonomous agents responsible for their own actions, which is right, whereas women are responsible for everyone's actions, including their husbands'. The double standard is staggering. If, if, if H- if Hillary had left Bill after the Lewinsky scandal, she'd have been called a calculating opportunist who, who abandoned him, and that it was politically convenient. If she stays with him, she's complicit in everything, um, he's ever done. So i- i- I just think it's insane that they kept asking her questions when he was testifying the next fucking day.
- KSKara Swisher
Correct.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, ask him.
- KSKara Swisher
She handled it beautifully.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I agree. So now just to, to piss off the Brooklyn-sandaled-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- SGScott Galloway
... or Birkenstock crowd on the other side, there is absolutely a double standard for, for women when it comes to asking them to explain obvious discretions or conflicts of interest. Watching the exchange basically saying, "Are you having sex with... Are, are you in an extramarital..." And I'm, I'm gonna be clear, I'm not judging them on having an extramarital affair or having sex. When you're having a relationship with your number two who is unqualified, uh, that is reason to be fired at any organization, any corporation, much less be a cabinet position. And, and what the exchange reminded me of was how selectively we apply accountability in politics. And as someone who considers them a feminist, that means you're subject to the same opportunities, and also you're entitled to the same amount of shit as everybody else. And when male politicians face questions about personal conduct, the expectation is clear: Answer the fucking question. And when they dodge, the press and the opposition usually press harder until they deny it or, or admit it. Evasion-
Episode duration: 1:02:10
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