Lawsuit Claims Dating Apps Encourage Compulsive Use

1. 0:00 – 1:27

   Dating Apps Encourage Compulsive Use

   1. KSKara Swisher0:00

      The Match Group, home of Tinder and other dating apps, is being sued for creating addictive products. The lawsuit claims the business model is predatory and rewards compulsive use, accusing the company of negligence and violation of consumer protection laws. Uh, the accusation of similarities to litigation other social platforms have faced, uh, about knowingly designing addictive features. In a statement, Match called the lawsuit "ridiculous" and said it had "zero merit." This suit also seeks damages for people who paid to use the apps and new warnings about risk, uh, risks of addiction. I, I, I don't know what to say. I, I, I feel like that they're... I'm kinda on Match's side, "It's ridiculous." You're kidding. Dating apps are addictive? It's not-

   2. SGScott Galloway0:38

      Yeah. Uh, uh, tell us something we don't know. I don't... I mean-

   3. KSKara Swisher0:40

      Yeah.

   4. SGScott Galloway0:41

      ... it feels like it'd be not just cocaine, but crack cocaine. Not only do they implement-

   5. KSKara Swisher0:47

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SGScott Galloway0:47

      ... the same sort of, um, you know, uh, uh, gamification and visual stimulation and random rewards that Tristan Harris talked about that create that slot mach- machine effect, where it's constant dopa by just pulling the arm again. But when you're thinking about the opportunity for a romantic or, you know, a romantic relationship, um, and you get evaluation or you get feedback s- you know, s- some positive but mostly negative, especially if you're a man on these apps, I can't imagine these apps wouldn't be addictive. How could they not be addictive?

   7. KSKara Swisher1:20

      Mm-hmm. I, I, I, I don't know. Is there a lawsuit here though?

   8. SGScott Galloway1:23

      Yeah. Tell us something we don't know. Alcohol is addictive, okay? What do we do

2. 1:27 – 2:07

   What Do We Do

   1. SGScott Galloway1:27

      about it?

   2. KSKara Swisher1:27

      So, this is why... This is the only reason I'm asking, and I'm gonna play devil's advocate here, is we s- we think social media platforms should be held accountable for what it does to teen girls or addiction and stuff like that, and we think that's okay. Is this any different or not?

   3. SGScott Galloway1:42

      Y- Well, the only thing that's... Uh, I mean these things get pretty mendacious pretty fast. Fake profiles-

   4. KSKara Swisher1:46

      Yes.

   5. SGScott Galloway1:46

      ... where they give people the sense that there's more opportunity and build their hopes when there isn't. You know, that's pretty... That's sort of... Th- th- that's just immoral. That's just not... But they're not doing anything that any other app that's selling sneakers or washing machines is doing, trying to create you to just stick on the app. I don't-

3. 2:07 – 3:32

   Social Media

   1. SGScott Galloway2:07

   2. KSKara Swisher2:07

      Yeah, but how is it different than social media? 'Cause I know-

   3. SGScott Galloway2:09

      I don't think it is.

   4. KSKara Swisher2:09

      ... you and I are... It isn't. It isn't. So should... What we think, social media should be subject to lawsuits around addiction or not? 'Cause it definitely-

   5. SGScott Galloway2:18

      I, I think-

   6. KSKara Swisher2:18

      ... has self-esteem issues, which is linked to addiction of using them, right? So, just-

   7. SGScott Galloway2:23

      Well, it's not... Okay. Uh, to try and... A- addiction itself, I think, is so complicated to prove in a court. I think what we've advocated for is that around health, as it relates to kids, maybe even elections, that's similar to the rest of media. They should not have Section 230 protections, such that if they find that, in fact, Facebook is sending out emails to girls-

   8. KSKara Swisher2:50

      Mm-hmm.

   9. SGScott Galloway2:51

      ... teen girls, with images helping them kill themselves-

   10. KSKara Swisher2:56

       Mm-hmm.

   11. SGScott Galloway2:56

       ... that they have some liability for that.

   12. KSKara Swisher2:59

       Mm-hmm.

   13. SGScott Galloway2:59

       We're not gonna even go to trying to prove what is addictive or what isn't addictive.

   14. KSKara Swisher3:03

       Right.

   15. SGScott Galloway3:03

       'Cause ice cream is addictive.

   16. KSKara Swisher3:05

       Right, right. True. Fair.

   17. SGScott Galloway3:05

       We're going, we're, we're going to go to liability. Now, if, if, if kids... If, if they are lying to people and saying, "Okay, there's a ton of really hot interesting people here who are really interested in you," and there are fake profiles and they're not, such that you spend more money, that's fraud, right? But I don't, I don't, I don't... Uh, you know, we have big laws around addiction. We tried to outlaw, we tried to outlaw alcohol. It didn't work. I, I, don't... I think that's tough

4. 3:32 – 7:53

   Dating Apps

   1. SGScott Galloway3:32

      to figure out.

   2. KSKara Swisher3:33

      I, I suppose like on cigarettes there's warnings, right? Maybe they could have warnings on them in this regard.

   3. SGScott Galloway3:38

      Warning, pursuing love is addictive or bad for your health.

   4. KSKara Swisher3:41

      (laughs) Yeah. Addicted to love, play that song.

   5. SGScott Galloway3:43

      I... Look, uh, apps, I've never been on a dating app. Uh, although, uh, my nickname at the office was Swipe Left. I love that.

   6. KSKara Swisher3:50

      Uh, was it?

   7. SGScott Galloway3:51

      Um-

   8. KSKara Swisher3:51

      What?

   9. SGScott Galloway3:52

      All the kids used to call me Swipe Left. (laughs)

   10. KSKara Swisher3:53

       Oh. Oh, that's funny. (laughs) That, that means you don't...

   11. SGScott Galloway3:56

       Um-

   12. KSKara Swisher3:56

       I've never been on a dating app. Is, does that mean-

   13. SGScott Galloway3:58

       Yeah. So-

   14. KSKara Swisher3:58

       Does that mean you don't like them?

   15. SGScott Galloway4:00

       No. I, uh, d- would I advise people?

   16. KSKara Swisher4:02

       What is swipe left? Which is swipe left? Tell me. I don't know because I've never-

   17. SGScott Galloway4:04

       Swipe left is I'm not interested. (laughs)

   18. KSKara Swisher4:06

       Oh, okay. Got it. I get it. Okay.

   19. SGScott Galloway4:07

       I'm not into-

   20. KSKara Swisher4:07

       I like that. I'm gonna call you that, Swipe Left.

   21. SGScott Galloway4:08

       Thanks for that.

   22. KSKara Swisher4:09

       No problem.

   23. SGScott Galloway4:09

       I, I personally, would I advise single people? I, I think it's easy to be a purist when you're s- when, when you're in a, when you're in a relationship. If I were single-

   24. KSKara Swisher4:17

       Yeah, yeah.

   25. SGScott Galloway4:17

       ... I would be accepting every ina- invitation to a dinner party. I'd be letting my friends know that I was single. I'd be politely and in a dignified way, when I met people professionally, following up and seeing if they might be interested in coffee and trying to sense if they were in fact interested in me in more than professional relationship, which I think is okay. One in three relationships begin at work. And I'd be on the apps, because the most rewarding thing in your life is going to be finding a romantic and sexual partnership, or maybe someday you decide to partner together economically and have children. And you know what? It's really fucking hard, and it requires effort and rejection, and I, I, I say do it all.

   26. KSKara Swisher4:56

       I, I see all the negatives out there. There's a great story, and I forget who wrote. I think it was Gail. Oh, she's a Vanity Fair reporter, wrote a great story about sort of the way men treat women on these apps, and I didn't like it. It was really kind of repulsive. Um, and when I actually read it-

   27. SGScott Galloway5:09

       I think it's the opposite, Kara.

   28. KSKara Swisher5:11

       I know. Uh, let me just finish. Let me just-

   29. SGScott Galloway5:12

       Go ahead.

   30. KSKara Swisher5:12

       So I... There's lots of issues with these apps, including fraud, bad profiles, et cetera, et cetera, and sort of the way people treat each other is kind of, um, interchangeable and fungible, um, which I don't like. But that happens in life at bars too, so it's not like a new fresh thing. Um, on the whole, I've had, heard... A- as many as horror stories there are, I think there's been a lot of really wonderful stories of people meeting on these things.

Episode duration: 7:53