Rachel Maddow: Trump’s Alaska Summit With Putin Is an ‘Abject Humiliation’ | Pivot

1. 0:00 – 18:12

   Intro

   1. RMRachel Maddow0:00

      ... if we all arrived at this meeting and then somebody opened the door from a supply closet and Volodymyr Zelenskyy walked out and sat down and Trump said, "You guys talk, I'll be right outside this door," that would be a victory.

   2. KSKara Swisher0:16

      Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. Welcome back to... Scot-Free August. This is possibly the most badass day of Scot-Free August. My co-host and I are the Al Pacino and Robert De Niro of lesbian journalists.

   3. RMRachel Maddow0:37

      (laughs) .

   4. KSKara Swisher0:37

      Respected, feared, and often confused for one another because of our hair, our fantastic haircuts, let me just say.

   5. RMRachel Maddow0:44

      (laughs) .

   6. KSKara Swisher0:44

      Welcome (laughs) the host of MSNBC's The Rachel Maddow Show, Rachel Maddow.

   7. RMRachel Maddow0:49

      Oh, Kara, I'm so glad.

   8. KSKara Swisher0:51

      (laughs) .

   9. RMRachel Maddow0:51

      And when we made that decision-

   10. KSKara Swisher0:52

       Yeah.

   11. RMRachel Maddow0:52

       ... to go bulk at the barber shop where we would-

   12. KSKara Swisher0:55

       (laughs) .

   13. RMRachel Maddow0:55

       ... always go two for one-

   14. KSKara Swisher0:56

       Together.

   15. RMRachel Maddow0:56

       ... I just think it was great for both of us. I mean, we were both 24.

   16. KSKara Swisher0:59

       Yeah.

   17. RMRachel Maddow0:59

       Who could've foreseen that it would've been the start of our paths in life, but-

   18. KSKara Swisher1:02

       Right. And we often dressed like each other too, and people are always like, "Are you Rachel Maddow?" No, I'm not tall enough. Sh- people don't know Rachel's quite tall. You're quite-

   19. RMRachel Maddow1:09

       People, that's the thing, that's the secret that's- that helps us twin-

   20. KSKara Swisher1:13

       Un- understand each other.

   21. RMRachel Maddow1:13

       ... in a way that will help us ultimately commit great crimes.

   22. KSKara Swisher1:16

       That is correct (laughs) .

   23. RMRachel Maddow1:17

       (laughs) Because we will-

   24. KSKara Swisher1:17

       We should do crimes.

   25. RMRachel Maddow1:17

       ... be the alibi for one another.

   26. KSKara Swisher1:19

       We should do crimes.

   27. RMRachel Maddow1:20

       We should do crimes.

   28. KSKara Swisher1:20

       Should we solve crimes or do crimes?

   29. RMRachel Maddow1:22

       Yes.

   30. KSKara Swisher1:23

       Both? (laughs) .
2. 18:12 – 27:42

   Trump and ‘America First’

   1. KSKara Swisher18:12

      so many great characters there. Um, we've been hearing Trump using this America First line for years, but it's coming into play more than ever in his second t- uh, term, as if it's fresh and new. He slapped the label on foreign policy, trade, immigration. He told the Atlantic a few months ago that America First means whatever he says it does. He said that he was the one that developed it. Obviously, not so. In both Ultra, your podcast, and your- which we've- you've been on, uh, on talking about this in your book, Prequel, um, you- you talk a lot about this, and the deep, deep roots of this, what's happening now in the US which we have forgotten about in a lot of ways. So, talk a little bit about the backstory and- and this rhetoric at this moment in time.

   2. RMRachel Maddow18:50

      So, the America First Committee was a real thing. Um, it only existed for about 15 months but it was 15 really important months. It was from, I think, September of 1940 until December of '41, Pearl Harbor. Um, but they formed ... It was one of the largest anti-war organizations ever in the US, and they formed to basically try to block FDR from affording any assistance to Britain when Britain was fending off a Nazi invasion. And, um, their basic idea, at least their public-facing idea, was that we were impregnable. We were protected by our oceans. Nobody was ever gonna attack us, and who cares if the Nazis took all of Europe? Um, Europe kinda sucks-

   3. KSKara Swisher19:31

      And we're-

   4. RMRachel Maddow19:31

      ... anyway Why should we give money to them? We shouldn't give money to them, and if we give anyone- Plow under. ... money to them, they're gonna plow ever- ev- ev- uh, plow under every fourth American boy. It'll get us into the- it'll get us into the- in- into the war, and we don't wanna be in another war after World War I. That was the public-facing line. The problem the America First Committee had is that even as they were huge, and they had all these really respectable people associated with them. It was founded by the- the guy who was the heir to the Quaker Oats fortune. Um, they kept slipping into kinda liking the Nazis and blaming everything on the Jews. Um, and the American public eventually came to see that, especially when Charles Lindbergh, who was the most famous man in America not named Roosevelt, uh, when Lindbergh, um, became their spokesman and started flat-out saying, "This is just the Jews trying to get us into the war, and the Jews are the big problem in the world."

   5. KSKara Swisher20:23

      Right.

   6. RMRachel Maddow20:23

      So, the America First Committee, um, I mean, has a- has a- has a short, very pungent history. And then, what the- what the idea of America First became after that is even worse. After the America First Committee disbanded following Pearl Harbor, we then later got other iterations of that concept, like the America First Party, which in 1944 campaigned explicitly on the promise of deporting and/or sterilizing all Jews in America.

   7. KSKara Swisher20:52

      Mm-hmm.

   8. RMRachel Maddow20:53

      So, that's the history of America First, which they're absolutely-

   9. KSKara Swisher20:56

      And there were senators-

   10. RMRachel Maddow20:57

       ... n-

   11. KSKara Swisher20:57

       ... that put these things forth, the sterilas- forced sterilization of Jews, of Blacks, of things like that.

   12. RMRachel Maddow21:02

       Yeah.

   13. KSKara Swisher21:03

       That- the- the insidious nature of it, if it- even if it wasn't called America First, was the thing I was thinking of, is the idea that first of all there was Nazi infiltration in- in our, um, in our country very s- significantly through Congress and also throughout media and everything else.

   14. RMRachel Maddow21:20

       Yeah.

   15. KSKara Swisher21:20

       Um, but that it was- it was much more insidious America First in a lot of ways, 'cause it had all the things attached to it.

   16. RMRachel Maddow21:26

       Yeah. That, I mean, that phrase, that plowing under every fourth American boy, that was, um, that originated in Berlin, um, in Goebbels' office, and then it made its way into the, um, speeches of, uh, an anti-FDR America First American politician. And there was a huge ... One of the things that Ultra and Prequel are about is, um, th- this- this huge multimillion dollar at the time, which makes it, I mean ... In- in- in 1940s dollars, multimillion dollar secret Nazi propaganda effort that was shunted through Congress. They used the Congressional franking privilege to mail out millions of pieces of Nazi propaganda to American homes using, uh, members of the Senate and members of Congress who were on the Nazi payroll, um, in the lead-up to World War II. And it's a forgotten history, I think, because of World War II. It seems to over- you know, that overshadows everything that went before. But we had a- we had a- we had a big Nazi-sympathizing and American fascist movement here in this country that wanted us not to be in that war.

   17. KSKara Swisher22:31

       That continued after the war through McCarthy, which is what-

   18. RMRachel Maddow22:33

       Yeah.

   19. KSKara Swisher22:34

       ... the second, uh, the second season of Ultra is about, correct?

   20. RMRachel Maddow22:37

       Yeah.

   21. KSKara Swisher22:37

       I mean that-

   22. RMRachel Maddow22:38

       That's right.

   23. KSKara Swisher22:38

       ... it didn't stop. So this never stopped. This is one of the things that I took away from your book, is that so much has, you know ... It begins with Goebbels, uh, who was, you know, I think ... They had stolen some ideas from us and Jim Crow.

   24. RMRachel Maddow22:51

       Mm-hmm.

   25. KSKara Swisher22:51

       And ... Or borrowed or whatever, and thought that was a great thing, and then it- they put it back here and continued. Th- that's what ... The- the- the lost history part, I mean, the- the biggest figure ... There's two figures in your books that I think are so c- McCarthy gets all the attention, right? Always, 'cause he's such a tragic and horrible figure. But two people I thought was Lawrence Dennis-

   26. RMRachel Maddow23:12

       Mm-hmm.

   27. KSKara Swisher23:13

       ... um, and O. John Rogge.

   28. RMRachel Maddow23:14

       Mm-hmm.

   29. KSKara Swisher23:15

       Two opposites, though similar.

   30. RMRachel Maddow23:17

       Lawrence De- Lawrence Dennis was considered to be the m- the intellectual godfather of American fascism. Um, and was ... Like, he was receiving money from the Germans, um, and they brought him over to, like, observe Nuremberg rallies and blah, blah, blah. Um, but he was connected to all sorts of American politicians and to these fascist movements including the violent fascist movements. And then O. John Rogge on the other side-
3. 27:42 – 31:48

   Trump Floats Extending D.C. Crackdown

   1. RMRachel Maddow27:42

   2. KSKara Swisher27:42

      Yeah. Th- You were saying they aren't the same. I mean, right now, for example, Trump ... L- let's go right to this. Trump says he's looking to extend the 30-day federal takeover of Washington, DC's police-

   3. RMRachel Maddow27:50

      Yeah.

   4. KSKara Swisher27:50

      ... and could bypass Congress, declaring a national emergency. I guess he could decide what a national emergency is. His comments come as National Guard troops arrive in DC with 800 guards and 500 federal agents set to be deployed in total. They're often in places that are very loud, although they're over on 14th Street where they're being pummeled with sandwiches. Um.

   5. RMRachel Maddow28:10

      (laughs)

   6. KSKara Swisher28:10

      D- That guy. That's gotta be the guy.

   7. RMRachel Maddow28:11

      (laughs) A felony for hurling the sandwich.

   8. KSKara Swisher28:14

      I know. I love that.

   9. RMRachel Maddow28:14

      Hurling.

   10. KSKara Swisher28:14

       I'm like ... I would, I would ... I feel like I wish I had done that. Um, DC Mayor Muriel Bowser is calling all of this an authoritarian push, although, uh, she'd initially said the city could benefit from it. She's being a little bit quiet about it. Uh, the US attorney for DC, Jeanine Pirro, uh, she of the, the box of wine, wrote in a Washington Post op-ed that she's working to overturn some local laws so juvenile offenders would be prosecuted. I just w- You know, the ... A lot of the stuff you wrote about was implicit. It was quietly being done, although the Silver Shirts, they appeared in ... All these people appeared in Madison Square Garden. They had all kinds of rallies. It was very explicit, but nothing like ... It wasn't the government doing this. Um, now he's also focusing his attention on DC's landscaping, saying, "We need to redo the grass with the finest grasses."

   11. RMRachel Maddow29:01

       (laughs)

   12. KSKara Swisher29:01

       I agree with that. I'm gonna agree. We have shitty grass in Washington.

   13. RMRachel Maddow29:04

       I think America can actually come together around the idea of fine grass.

   14. KSKara Swisher29:08

       Fine grass, yeah.

   15. RMRachel Maddow29:09

       Yes.

   16. KSKara Swisher29:09

       Uh, so talk to me a little bit about what's happening here, 'cause this is explicit. In the time you were writing about it, the government itself wasn't doing things like that, or it was in a way in certain areas, like, uh, concentration camps and things like that for the Japanese.

   17. RMRachel Maddow29:23

       Yeah. I mean, fascist groups in the United States before World War II wanted an authoritarian takeover of our country, in which there would not be a "the American system of government" anymore. There would be a strongman leader who would, um, uh, run things, uh, at his own whim with an ... with autocratic capabilities and would-... um, serve the white Gentile population above all else, and kick everybody else out of the country. That's what fascist groups before World War II wanted in this country, which is why they wanted us to not only, to- to- to either not fight the Nazis or to fight with the Nazis rather than to go over there and fight them.

   18. KSKara Swisher30:00

       And they didn't like democracy, explicitly. They talked about it, Lawrence Dennis did.

   19. RMRachel Maddow30:04

       They thought democracy was decadent-

   20. KSKara Swisher30:06

       Mm-hmm.

   21. RMRachel Maddow30:06

       ... and it was a way for-

   22. KSKara Swisher30:07

       Liberals and women. Gays.

   23. RMRachel Maddow30:10

       ... uh, women and, well, minorities of any kind-

   24. KSKara Swisher30:12

       Mm-hmm.

   25. RMRachel Maddow30:12

       ... to have any say. Like, they, they don't, these are folks who don't want, don't believe in sharing power with people different than them. They think that they should be able to have a say on their own terms of, of what happens not only in government, but in everything. And so now, in our generation, in our time, we have an elected authoritarian leader who doesn't just want to control the executive branch. He wants to control, you know, universities-

   26. KSKara Swisher30:40

       Mm-hmm.

   27. RMRachel Maddow30:40

       ... their (laughs) curriculum and their admissions and their, you know, student discipline policies, and he wants to decide what economists work at what banks, and he wants to control-

   28. KSKara Swisher30:50

       Smithsonian.

   29. RMRachel Maddow30:51

       ... uh, businesses. He wants to control the Smithsonian. He wants to control high school sports. He wants to control the legal profession. He wants to control-

   30. KSKara Swisher30:58

       Media.
4. 31:48 – 42:30

   White House to Review Smithsonian

   1. KSKara Swisher31:48

      of the same idea, and for people who don't know, the White House plans to review the Smithsonian Museum exhibitions, materials, and operations for America's 250th anniversary next year. The administration sent a letter to the Smithsonian this week explaining how the museum content is in line with Tr- Trump's Restoring Truth and Sanity to American History executive order. Um, and, and recently, the National Museum of American History removed a placard that mentioned Trump's two impeachments, which has since been replaced. Um, i- is there one thing, like, this is, like, a cornucopia of stuff for you to focus on. Wh- what do you look, what do you think is the thing that troubles you the most, or is it in whole? Is it the takeover of the city, um, or the attempted takeover of the city, or is it the museum? I assume it's all of it, but is there something you find most disturbing?

   2. RMRachel Maddow32:34

      Well, it's all of a piece, um, in the sense that I, (sighs) I guess I have two answers to this question. One is that what Trump is doing is so ...

   3. KSKara Swisher32:43

      Mm-hmm.

   4. RMRachel Maddow32:43

      ... textbook.

   5. KSKara Swisher32:44

      It is.

   6. RMRachel Maddow32:45

      Like, there's not anything that's very surprising about what he's doing, and we now know who he is and what his intentions are. That's not, there isn't gonna be a big reveal, "Oh, he has authoritarian inclinations (laughs) for our country, our intentions." Like, we now know who he is. He is, he is Viktor Orbán. He is Vladimir Putin. He is Duterte. He is Berlusconi. You know, pick, pick your, pick your poison. We, he, they all do the same thing, right? We're, we're only lucky that Trump isn't taking his shirt off in photos.

   7. KSKara Swisher33:09

      (laughs)

   8. RMRachel Maddow33:10

      Um, but so-

   9. KSKara Swisher33:12

      Thanks, Rachel.

   10. RMRachel Maddow33:12

       ... on the, that, to me ... Sorry, (laughs) I just put that image right in your head, didn't I?

   11. KSKara Swisher33:16

       You did. I just totally saw his chest.

   12. RMRachel Maddow33:17

       Sorry.

   13. KSKara Swisher33:17

       Just, like, sad.

   14. RMRachel Maddow33:19

       (laughs)

   15. KSKara Swisher33:19

       Anyway.

   16. RMRachel Maddow33:21

       Swayze.

   17. KSKara Swisher33:22

       He's not Swayze. No.

   18. RMRachel Maddow33:24

       (laughs)

   19. KSKara Swisher33:24

       I'd take this shit from Swayze, but not from this guy, but go ahead.

   20. RMRachel Maddow33:28

       (laughs) Um, but be- because he's predictable, because he is playing-

   21. KSKara Swisher33:34

       A role.

   22. RMRachel Maddow33:34

       ... to type, and it is a type, and it's a very knowable thing, I feel like there's only so much value in focusing on every new thing-

   23. KSKara Swisher33:41

       Mm-hmm.

   24. RMRachel Maddow33:41

       ... he does. Um, because it's predictable what he's going to do. We know what this is, so I, it makes me more interested in the question of the, the country's durability-

   25. KSKara Swisher33:50

       Mm-hmm.

   26. RMRachel Maddow33:50

       ... um, and how we're responding-

   27. KSKara Swisher33:52

       Mm-hmm.

   28. RMRachel Maddow33:52

       ... and the strength of our institutions-

   29. KSKara Swisher33:54

       Mm-hmm.

   30. RMRachel Maddow33:54

       ... in standing up to it.
5. 42:30 – 51:16

   Trump and Putin’s Alaskan Adventure

   1. KSKara Swisher42:33

      we're back. President Trump and Vladimir Putin are about to meet in Alaska, and Trump is warning that Russia will face, quote, "Very severe consequences" if Putin doesn't agree to stop the war in Ukraine. The White House downplayed expectations for the summit earlier this week, describing it as a listening exercise. He's talking about feeling people, feeling people out, which was relatively qu- creepy in the Epstein zoo.

   2. RMRachel Maddow42:52

      Feeling people up, out?

   3. KSKara Swisher42:54

      Up, feeling out. Feeling them out.

   4. RMRachel Maddow42:56

      Feeling out, feeling, feeling...

   5. KSKara Swisher42:56

      He might feel them up. That's grotesque.

   6. RMRachel Maddow42:59

      I mean...

   7. KSKara Swisher42:59

      Um, Trump also... You've already gotten, like, lots of pictures in my head, and I don't appreciate it.

   8. RMRachel Maddow43:03

      (laughs)

   9. KSKara Swisher43:03

      Trump also spoke with European leaders and Ukraine's President Zelensky ahead of the summit. European leaders asked Trump not to strike a unilateral peace deal, so gave him some key points of neg- of negotiation. Zelensky said he warned Trump that Putin was bluffing on pursuing peace, obviously. He's called this meeting Putin's personal victory. What, what are you looking for? I just had David Remnick on last, uh, the last episode, and he said, you know, "As long as he doesn't fuck up or give anything away right away, it'll be a victory." Like, if he, if he has a second meeting, if there's a... And he's been talking that way recently.

   10. RMRachel Maddow43:36

       I mean, I... This is all just so embarrassing.

   11. KSKara Swisher43:40

       Mm-hmm.

   12. RMRachel Maddow43:40

       You know what I mean?

   13. KSKara Swisher43:41

       Yeah.

   14. RMRachel Maddow43:41

       I mean, was, uh... Jimmy Fallon had that very good line where he was like, "Oh, listening and exercise, two of Trump's favorite things." (laughs)

   15. KSKara Swisher43:50

       (laughs)

   16. RMRachel Maddow43:51

       Do you remember the, um, the red line? Obama and the red line with Syria?

   17. KSKara Swisher43:57

       Oh, yeah. The red line. We never heard of a red line.

   18. RMRachel Maddow43:57

       So this was, like, 2012, I think it was.

   19. KSKara Swisher44:00

       Mm-hmm.

   20. RMRachel Maddow44:00

       Um, Obama gave a speech where, um, he described, um, Bashar al-Assad potentially using chemical weapons-

   21. KSKara Swisher44:08

       Mm-hmm.

   22. RMRachel Maddow44:08

       ... as a, as a red line, that that's how the United States would treat it, and then in 2013, Assad absolutely did that. And Obama responded by saying, "All right. I'm going to Congress to get authorization for the use of military force against Syria."

   23. KSKara Swisher44:21

       Mm-hmm.

   24. RMRachel Maddow44:22

       And, um, Congress debated it a little bit, and then it kind of looked like it wasn't gonna pass, and then it fell, and then they didn't do it. They didn't, they did not pass the authorization for the use of military force. That went down in political commentary common wisdom as, like, "Obama was such a wuss. He blew it on that red line thing. That was such an embarrassment." First of all, Obama didn't do anything wrong there. He went for, he went to Congress for an authorization for the use of military force, which is how it works in our system.

   25. KSKara Swisher44:51

       Correct.

   26. RMRachel Maddow44:51

       And it was Congress that blew it. But that, that supposed failure, which wasn't a failure at all by Obama, 12, 13 years later, people still talk about that.

   27. KSKara Swisher45:00

       Why did he do it?

   28. RMRachel Maddow45:01

       As like a, a, a nadir, a terrible thing about the Obama administration. Well meanwhile, here's Trump. Wasn't it gonna be like if by Friday the war wasn't over-

   29. KSKara Swisher45:12

       Over, yeah.

   30. RMRachel Maddow45:12

       ... it was gonna be the-
6. 51:16 – 55:05

   Will SCOTUS Overturn Same-Sex Marriage?

   1. KSKara Swisher51:16

      from her porch. Anyway, um, let's bring that one back. I'm gonna move on to something totally different. The U.S. Supreme Court has officially been asked to overturn the 2015 decision that granted equal marriage rights to same-sex couples. If you remember, Kim Davis, uh, Heinous Kim Davis is what I call her, uh, the former Kentucky, Kentucky, uh, county clerk who was jailed for six days in 2015 for refusing to issue marriage licenses to a gay couple, she's filed an appeal in July for the compensation she, uh, was ordered to pay that couple. Davis is taking her case to the Court on the grounds that Ober, uh, Obergefell v. Hodges, which established marriage equality, was wrongly decided and infringes on her First Amendment rights. Davis has un... been unsuccessfully appealing the order for years to lower courts. She is the only one with standing to do this, from what I understand. Um, I did predict a, predict an attack on marriage equality back in January. Let's listen to a clip. All they're doing is a, is a, is a naked grab for overturning, uh, the gay marriage, uh, Supreme Court decision like they overturned Roe v. Wade, um, and it's very vulnerable. Two su- two court justices, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito, said it should be reconsidered. Um, so we'll see. It's theater. It's, it's, it's theater, but it's... They are going to try to do this. They're trying to get a case up there that will make it happen. Are you concerned about this at all?

   2. RMRachel Maddow52:33

      Well, I'm... On this, I'm sort of, of two... I'm of two minds about the-

   3. KSKara Swisher52:38

      Mm-hmm.

   4. RMRachel Maddow52:38

      ... about the decision. I feel like I agree with your prediction from January that they want to overturn.

   5. KSKara Swisher52:43

      Mm-hmm.

   6. RMRachel Maddow52:43

      Um, uh, at least there are parts of the Court that wanna overturn it. I mean, remember, Obergefell was 5-4...

   7. KSKara Swisher52:48

      Mm-hmm.

   8. RMRachel Maddow52:49

      ... decision, and now-

   9. KSKara Swisher52:50

      It was tight.

   10. RMRachel Maddow52:50

       Yeah. And now the Court is 6-3 in the direction that had been in the minority.

   11. KSKara Swisher52:55

       Mm-hmm.

   12. RMRachel Maddow52:55

       Um, and so I th- I think they want to, but I also feel like the sort of legal common wisdom on this case-

   13. KSKara Swisher53:00

       Mm-hmm.

   14. RMRachel Maddow53:00

       ... as I understand it, I'm not a lawyer, but the legal common wisdom is that this is not the case. That while Kim Davis is appealing to the Supreme Court her illegal actions in denying a marriage license-

   15. KSKara Swisher53:12

       Mm-hmm.

   16. RMRachel Maddow53:12

       ... on the... because she says God told her to, um, th- uh, she o- she is i- in appealing that part of her case, she is also asking the Court to overturn Obergefell.

   17. KSKara Swisher53:22

       Mm-hmm.

   18. RMRachel Maddow53:22

       And this doesn't... This just doesn't seem like legally the right vehicle to do that.

   19. KSKara Swisher53:27

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   20. RMRachel Maddow53:27

       The Court also doesn't have to take up any of this.

   21. KSKara Swisher53:29

       Take it all. Yeah.

   22. RMRachel Maddow53:30

       Um, and even if they did take up the Kim Davis part of it, they don't have to address the Obergefell request-

   23. KSKara Swisher53:34

       Mm-hmm.

   24. RMRachel Maddow53:35

       ... in it at all. So I think, I think yes, the, um, the anti-gay movement in this country, um, senses it's got the wind in its sails. They've got a, a newly reactionary Republican Party on these issues that's getting really demagogic on these issues, um, and- and they, they think that they've got victories ahead. I just don't think this is the case by which they're gonna do it. That said, I mean, they've been doing all sorts of stuff that isn't warranted or necessitated by the-

   25. KSKara Swisher54:00

       Mm-hmm.

   26. RMRachel Maddow54:00

       ... by the material that's being put before them. That's the whole shadow docket idea.

   27. KSKara Swisher54:03

       Right.

   28. RMRachel Maddow54:03

       So, this a pretty radical Court, and I don't, I don't really wanna, I don't wanna really wanna s- pl- stand here with on... plant two feet and say it's not gonna happen, but-

   29. KSKara Swisher54:11

       Mm-hmm.

   30. RMRachel Maddow54:12

       ... it would be a, it would be a weird way for them to do it, if they were gonna.
7. 55:05 – 1:01:03

   Katie Miller’s Podcast

   1. KSKara Swisher55:05

      When we come back, we'll talk about what the Women of the Right are up to. Rachel, we're back with a quick update of the Women on the Right. Let's start with Katy Miller, wife of Stephen Miller, former employee of Elon Musk. She launched her own podcast, The Katy Miller Podcast, and kicking it off with a J.D. Vance interview, that charmer. Now, let's listen to some of the hard-hitting journalism happening over there.

   2. RMRachel Maddow55:23

      Oh, God. If you could only eat one condiment for the rest of your life, what would it be?

   3. SGScott Galloway55:27

      One condiment?

   4. RMRachel Maddow55:28

      Yeah.

   5. SGScott Galloway55:28

      Does barbecue sauce count?

   6. RMRachel Maddow55:29

      Yeah.

   7. SGScott Galloway55:29

      Okay, barbecue sauce.

   8. RMRachel Maddow55:30

      Not mayonnaise?

   9. SGScott Galloway55:32

      No. No, mayonnaise is, like, in low doses is good, but it's kinda ... Like, I, I had a buddy who used to eat french fries and mayonnaise. I thought that was disgusting.

   10. RMRachel Maddow55:39

       It's the only thing my husband eats.

   11. SGScott Galloway55:41

       With french fries, or like period?

   12. RMRachel Maddow55:43

       Period.

   13. SGScott Galloway55:43

       Okay. Wow.

   14. RMRachel Maddow55:44

       Yeah.

   15. SGScott Galloway55:44

       I never realized.

   16. RMRachel Maddow55:45

       He's only a mayonnaise guy.

   17. SGScott Galloway55:46

       Okay. I learned something about Stephen I didn't know.

   18. RMRachel Maddow55:48

       Yeah. It's whatever.

   19. SGScott Galloway55:49

       (laughs)

   20. KSKara Swisher55:50

       God.

   21. RMRachel Maddow55:51

       Oh, Kara.

   22. KSKara Swisher55:53

       (laughs)

   23. RMRachel Maddow55:53

       Why did you put that in my head?

   24. KSKara Swisher55:55

       (laughs)

   25. RMRachel Maddow55:55

       (laughs)

   26. KSKara Swisher55:55

       'Cause you put naked Donald Trump in my head.

   27. RMRachel Maddow55:58

       Oh, my God.

   28. KSKara Swisher55:59

       I know.

   29. RMRachel Maddow55:59

       I don't wanna think about mayonnaise at all-

   30. KSKara Swisher56:01

       Mayonnaise.
8. 1:01:03 – 1:05:15

   Laura Loomer vs. MTG

   1. KSKara Swisher1:01:03

      mayonnaise. Um, and I, we're not even getting into aioli. Um, all right. Some more ladies to the right, Laura Loomer and Marjorie Taylor Greene are beefing. In the last week, Laura Loomer claimed the Trump White House can't stand Marjorie Ke- Taylor Greene in a deposition in a lawsuit against Bill Maher. By the way, please go read that whole deposition. It's one wacky thing after the next. Marjorie Taylor Greene suggested Laura Loomer was bankrolled by Israeli intelligence. And Loomer has called, uh, MTG a rabid dog and a lying, fake Christian whore. Um-

   2. RMRachel Maddow1:01:29

      (laughs)

   3. KSKara Swisher1:01:30

      (laughs) I don't think we could do any better from that. Um, w- what is happening? I, I, I think a bigger question is, on the right, what happens post-Trump? 'Cause there will be eventually a post-Trump unless they Weekend at Bernie's this guy. Um, what, what happens? 'Cause they, there seems to be so many fissures in this gang of, like, incompetence and malcontents.

   4. RMRachel Maddow1:01:53

      Y- one of the things, you know, and I've done a lot of work in the past few years on, like, the far right.

   5. KSKara Swisher1:01:57

      Yeah.

   6. RMRachel Maddow1:01:58

      And the far right in American modern history and what they've, what they've done and, um, who they are and how they network with mainstream-

   7. KSKara Swisher1:02:05

      Right.

   8. RMRachel Maddow1:02:06

      ... and elected right-wingers and stuff.

   9. KSKara Swisher1:02:07

      And they're good at it.

   10. RMRachel Maddow1:02:08

       Yeah. And there's, it's always been much more seamless between the far right and the center right than it is between the far left and the mainstream left. Um, but one of the things that has limited the ascendance and the power and the sustainability of the very far right in the past-

   11. KSKara Swisher1:02:25

       Mm-hmm.

   12. RMRachel Maddow1:02:25

       ... is that they're all, um, uh, crooks and mean girls.

   13. KSKara Swisher1:02:31

       Mm-hmm.

   14. RMRachel Maddow1:02:32

       And they steal from each other and get in fistfights and set each other's houses on fire and sleep with each other, sleep with each other's wives and husbands. And there's so much infighting, um, that they can't keep it together for more than a single generation ever. And that's true in everything from the American Nazi Party, where we have George Lincoln Rockwell assassinated by one of his own people, to the Liberty Lobby, which was a, uh, Holocaust denial, um, uh, neo-Nazi organization that was very integrated with the, uh, elected right in the, in the Reagan era, where they descended into incredible, like, fistfights and smashing each other over the head with iron bars. Like, there's all this in, there's all this stuff. Um, and it always goes that way. And right now, we do have, with an authoritarian in the White House, we do have greater and more scary, more powerful integration between the very far right and the right than we've ever had before. But it doesn't expunge that dynamic, which I think always exists on the far right. Which is, "You're isra- Israeli intelligence." "No, you're Israeli intelligence."

   15. KSKara Swisher1:03:35

       You're, yeah.

   16. RMRachel Maddow1:03:35

       "And you're a whore, and you're a," you know.

   17. KSKara Swisher1:03:38

       Right.

   18. RMRachel Maddow1:03:38

       I mean, that, that's-

   19. KSKara Swisher1:03:38

       A lying, fake Christian whore.

   20. RMRachel Maddow1:03:40

       Yeah.

   21. KSKara Swisher1:03:40

       That's the name of my band. But go ahead.

   22. RMRachel Maddow1:03:42

       Aw.

   23. KSKara Swisher1:03:42

       Yeah.

   24. RMRachel Maddow1:03:42

       Um, I would-

   25. KSKara Swisher1:03:43

       Actually, the name of my band is Pregnant Women Smoking, but go ahead.

   26. RMRachel Maddow1:03:47

       (laughs) I would buy merch from either.

   27. KSKara Swisher1:03:49

       Yeah.

   28. RMRachel Maddow1:03:49

       Even though I'd be too socially awkward-

   29. KSKara Swisher1:03:50

       So, you, you feel like a crack up-

   30. RMRachel Maddow1:03:51

       ... to go to the show.
9. 1:05:15 – 1:07:38

   Predictions

   1. KSKara Swisher1:05:15

      Rachel, one more quick break and we will be back for our last segment on predictions. Okay, you have to make a prediction. Uh, I can make one too, but I would like you to first.

   2. RMRachel Maddow1:05:23

      Do you want... You go first.

   3. KSKara Swisher1:05:24

      Well, bu- I'm living for two things. I think Gavin Newsom's done very well with his, uh, his tweeting of Trump, fake... You know, he's, he's mimicking Trump, which is really great. But I'm really enjoying the AI boys fighting. Elon Musk and Sam Altman are going at it again. Musk alleged that Apple engaged in antitrust violations, making it impossible for AI companies other than OpenAI to reach the top of the App Store. Musk says, "X.AI will take immediate legal action." Altman responded to a claim saying, "This is a remarkable claim given what I have heard allege that Elon does to manipulate X to benefit himself and his own companies and harm his competitors and people he doesn't like." And Musk responded saying, you know, "You had three million responses, uh, uh, to this, and I have many more followers, and I didn't have nearly as many." And Sam Altman delivered the fantastic, and only gay people can do this, uh, slap, which was, "Skill issues." (laughs)

   4. RMRachel Maddow1:06:17

      (laughs) Okay.

   5. KSKara Swisher1:06:19

      Um, I, I, I, I predict this war is gonna get worse, uh, because I think that Elon will do anything. There is a weird anger that he has towards Sam Altman, who he used to be ali- not aligned with. They did a comp- they did OpenAI together and, uh, and he will not rest until, um, he is somehow sullied. You can have your opinions about Sam Altman all you want, or any of these tech people, but this is gonna get, uh, I think, worse, uh, a- as Grok continues to crater. The pr- the founder just left. Um, and so Y- Elon's gonna sort of focus his attention away from Trump, although I do think he did start the Epstein thing, um, and, and continue to, like, go at, uh, anything that has to do with OpenAI and try to kill it.

   6. RMRachel Maddow1:07:00

      Does Musk have sticktoitiveness problems though? Does he-

   7. KSKara Swisher1:07:03

      Yeah, absolutely.

   8. RMRachel Maddow1:07:04

      Yeah.

   9. KSKara Swisher1:07:04

      Absolutely. He is, he is like a, like, you know, like, what's a bird that... A hummingbird. He just-

   10. RMRachel Maddow1:07:09

       He flits.

   11. KSKara Swisher1:07:10

       He flits, he flots, he... There's a song. What is that? Um, oh, it's in fr- the Sound of Music. (laughs) It's a Sound of Music song. Um, it goes back to Julie Andrews, the villainess.

   12. RMRachel Maddow1:07:19

       I was just gonna say. (laughs)

   13. KSKara Swisher1:07:20

       (laughs)

   14. RMRachel Maddow1:07:20

       We're back to Julie Andrews.

   15. KSKara Swisher1:07:21

       No, the villainess in that is my favorite character of all time, the Baroness.

   16. RMRachel Maddow1:07:25

       Oh.

   17. KSKara Swisher1:07:25

       The Baroness. Remember her?

   18. RMRachel Maddow1:07:27

       The Baroness.

   19. KSKara Swisher1:07:28

       The Baroness. She was this blonde.

   20. RMRachel Maddow1:07:30

       Susan watches, Susan watches the Sound of Music like three times a year.

   21. KSKara Swisher1:07:33

       As she should.

   22. RMRachel Maddow1:07:34

       Yeah. I just-

   23. KSKara Swisher1:07:35

       As. She. Should.

   24. RMRachel Maddow1:07:35

       I go get on, I go get on the exercise bike.

Episode duration: 1:15:34