Right Wing Media Charts a New Course for Power and Influence | Pivot

1. 0:00 – 0:30

   Trump’s nontraditional media playbook and the ‘right-wing media is bigger’ thesis

   1. KSKara Swisher0:00

      We've noted that Trump harnessed podcasts, YouTube, and non-traditional media al- along with the bro vote to great success. We've talked about this for a long time. But now there's tons of pieces about this. One piece in The New Republic argued that the year it became obvious that right-wing media had more power than mainstream media, wh- another thing we've talked about for a long time. And that it was Fox News, Sinclair, X, Joe Rogan, and others who, quote, "fed their audience a diet of slanted and distorted information that made it possible for Trump to win." Elon Musk has been telling his followers, "You are the media now," which we've heard before. Um, again,

2. 0:30 – 1:18

   Why Democrats lagged in the shift away from legacy media (and why ‘find a Joe Rogan’ is simplistic)

   1. KSKara Swisher0:30

      I think it's a- it's getting a little overdone in my opinion, but it's true, and it's also getting overdone. Um, that said, Democrats were slow to move away from legacy media, slower, as they always have been, 'cause they've owned legacy media for a long time compared to the right, which has been dabbling in radio and everything else for much- 'cause they were- they were kept out of the mainstream media, except for Fox. Um, Mark Cuban posted a podcast that he thought this- this ******* was only partially relevant for Trump's victory. I thought this was a smart observation as always. He thinks it's about social media echo chambers. He says that he told Fa- Harris to focus on reverse engineering the algorithms for each demo, but the campaign was stuck in 2020. Um, it's a complex story. I think it's partially ... And I thought Mark had a really good point, that by just saying, "Dems, you need your own Joe Rogan," it's not the answer.

3. 1:18 – 1:59

   Scott’s podcast-rankings ‘aha’: news commentary dominates political influence

   1. SGScott Galloway1:18

      Well, I called you the other night. I'm obsessed with data and also the affirmation of strangers, and I'm always looking at the rankings of our podcast, and if you type in, "What's the most inf- influential category in podcasting as it relates to an election?" I think it would not be politics. I think it would be news commentary. 'Cause that's where people tune in to hear about the state of the world. And the top of the ten top news commentary podcasts, which by the way I would bet get dramatically more listenership, not only dramatically more listenership, but younger, more valuable, uh, consumers in terms of, uh, politicians or people running for office or advertisers.

   2. KSKara Swisher1:57

      Sure. Mm-hmm.

   3. SGScott Galloway1:57

      They're much more powerful than the top ten cable-

4. 1:59 – 2:37

   The top charts tilt red: a conservative advantage in the most influential category

   1. KSKara Swisher1:59

      Who's in there? Who's in that list?

   2. SGScott Galloway2:01

      Uh, I was ... Y- y- I was- I was headed that way. So eight of the ten-

   3. KSKara Swisher2:05

      Ah, s-

   4. SGScott Galloway2:05

      Eight of the ten-

   5. KSKara Swisher2:06

      Yeah.

   6. SGScott Galloway2:07

      ... are hard red.

   7. KSKara Swisher2:08

      Yeah.

   8. SGScott Galloway2:08

      Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly, Charlie Kirk, Dan Bongino.

   9. KSKara Swisher2:13

      That whole gang.

   10. SGScott Galloway2:13

       I mean ...

   11. KSKara Swisher2:14

       Yeah, what a party.

   12. SGScott Galloway2:14

       Uh, I forget that other guy, a little bit older. I forget his name. Oh, it's, uh, John Bolen.

   13. KSKara Swisher2:17

       Levin, Mark Levin.

   14. SGScott Galloway2:18

       Mark Levin. The two blue, the two lone islands of blue are, uh, number six is Pivot and then number ten is On With Kara Swisher. You are literally the only islands, the only safe passage of blue in the top ten news commentary of the most popular or most influential medium, I believe, now in politics.

5. 2:37 – 2:55

   Where Crooked Media fits—and how platform categorization shapes perceptions

   1. KSKara Swisher2:37

      Don't- don't Crooked Medias get in there? Don't Crooked Media?

   2. SGScott Galloway2:40

      It's interesting. They're cata- they're- they're- they're categorized under politics, and they're number one or number two. If they were categorized under news commentary, I think they'd be number one or two. I think that's a fair point. But for whatever reason, Apple doesn't categorize them as news commentary.

6. 2:55 – 3:25

   The right’s collaboration machine: cross-promotion, shared circuits, and ‘group’ behavior

   1. KSKara Swisher2:55

      You know what's interesting? I- i- i- what I was just thinking, one of the things the right wing does do better, and I do think, I don't know if they're more powerful, is they join together a lot. They go on each other's shows. They cross-promote. They're always, you know how Rogan's doing the comics, that- that guy, Tony Hinchcliffe, is from a- is a Rogan acolyte down in Austin. They all work with each other as a group and- and I think one of the things we should do is, like, hang with the Crooked g- we should do something where we're always cross-promoting among our group. They're- they exist, but they're little islands. I'm up for shoplifting

7. 3:25 – 3:54

   Podcast influence vs ‘your little podcast’: legacy media underestimates new distribution

   1. KSKara Swisher3:25

      any old idea those sons of bitches have. Um, and so, uh, I think we should start doing that. But I think it's a little more complex than, "Let's make a Joe Rogan." You know? I think it's just, that seems reduct- the me- the legacy media's just woken up to something we've known all along, is that we have a lot of influence in the podcast space, much more so than they realize. Like, your little pod- I always get, "Your little podcast." I'm like, "I think we probably sold more books than a Washington Post review in- by far," or whatever it happens to be.

   2. SGScott Galloway3:53

      Look at- look at-

   3. KSKara Swisher3:54

      Anyway.

8. 3:54 – 4:24

   The audience-value gap: cable’s older viewers vs podcasts’ younger scale

   1. SGScott Galloway3:54

      Okay, MSNBC, 1,000,000 people, average age 70. Uh, Rogan gets 15 million downloads, average age 34. (laughs) I mean, where- where would you rather be? And if you really, th- th- but the reality is, a lot of these people ... Okay, so what do Megyn Kelly, Tucker Carlson, um, Glenn Beck, uh, Bill O'Reilly ... I'm- I'm reading people in the top 15 here. What do these people all have in common?

9. 4:24 – 4:55

   ‘Fired from mainstream’ to podcast stardom: the new outplacement pipeline

   1. SGScott Galloway4:24

      They were fired by traditional media. This is essentially ... This is- this looks like the outplacement office at McKinsey. It's all these formerly important people looking for a new job. And quite frankly, you want to talk about revenge of the formerly fired or the fired from broadcast, they have found a home in podcasting. And I ... There's just no getting around it, though. You have to acknowledge that traditional media was missing a big mar- th- these people have tapped into the same strategy that Rupert Murdoch tapped into 30 years ago.

10. 4:55 – 6:25

    Pushing back on ‘you are the media now’: reporting vs distribution, noise vs journalism

    1. KSKara Swisher4:55

       I- I- I agree. I do think media didn't fall down the job of reporting on it. I just don't think they're getting to people. I think that- that's a bullshit, though. Like, "They ignored it." I'm like, "No, there was a lot of reporting. It just was how they're getting to people." Th- that said, the reason I say it's overreach is 'cause I think they're- "You're the media now." You're not the media now, followers. You're just not. You're not gonna ... all ... you- you can be noisy, you know, and stuff like that, but one of the things that I- I- I ... was interesting, you know, that constant jazz hands, I don't know, wanker, Chamath Palihapitiya, who you know of, um, Mr. Spac, he wrote, "I canceled my New York Times and Washington Post subscriptions, just reallocated the money to subscribe and follow the following folks on X whom I believe help get me accurate news, including Michael Shellenberger, Kaneoka the Great, The Chief Nerd. I will per- uh, periodically publish accounts I subscribe to on X, and you may want to consider supporting them as well. Worst case, consider following them." Uh, this guy, ugh, I once saw him buy, I was noting, several bottles of $10,000 wine one night, and now he's on a budget. I mean, seriously.

    2. SGScott Galloway5:58

       Yeah, but I- I don't-

    3. KSKara Swisher5:59

       This ... we're gonna hear endless amounts of this bullshit.

    4. SGScott Galloway5:59

       I- I- I just think what he's saying is, is that-... is that he's get- he, he feels like he's getting better information and better follows on Twitter than he does-

    5. KSKara Swisher6:07

       Yeah.

    6. SGScott Galloway6:07

       ... in traditional broadcast media. This-

    7. KSKara Swisher6:10

       Uh, fine. Whatever.

    8. SGScott Galloway6:10

       Look, i- i- this is gonna... There's gonna be a lot of naval gazing in the Democratic Party. There's gonna be more naval gazing across traditional media because-

    9. KSKara Swisher6:18

       Yes, but The Washington Post and New York Times does great reporting. Suzanne Craig. They, they just do.

    10. SGScott Galloway6:22

        Well, I'm not arguing with that.

    11. KSKara Swisher6:23

        Like, to do this stuff, I hate. But go ahead. It's fine.

11. 6:25 – 7:36

    The ad-money migration: why podcast revenue could outgrow Big Tech peers

    1. SGScott Galloway6:25

       Well, uh, uh, th- there's just no getting... The most influential medium in this election, and I think the most influential election over the next... or the most influential medium over the next four years... Podcasts, th- I, I'm predicting next year... I'm doing my predictions today. I think podcasts revenue next year is gonna grow faster than Meta-

    2. KSKara Swisher6:42

       Right.

    3. SGScott Galloway6:42

       ... Alphabet or Amazon. And, uh, uh-

    4. KSKara Swisher6:46

       Right.

    5. SGScott Galloway6:46

       ... all of a sudden, advertisers are waking up to the fact that they go where attention is. Attention... Money always follows attention. And also, the nitro meets glycerin here is that advertisers... A 34-year-old male is three times as valuable if not five times more valuable than a 70-year-old woman because this 70-year-old woman is smart. She's not, she's not in her mating years. She's not spending money on stupid high margin coffee and SUVs and-

    6. KSKara Swisher7:11

       It's the 20s.

    7. SGScott Galloway7:11

       Yeah (laughs) ) I- I mean... and, you know-

    8. KSKara Swisher7:14

       Really.

    9. SGScott Galloway7:14

       ... A- Adidas and Nike. She's not doing that shit anymore. She's like, "Okay."

    10. KSKara Swisher7:18

        Yeah.

    11. SGScott Galloway7:18

        "I, I'm only gonna buy money... I'm only gonna spend money on smart things," right, "that are low margin."

    12. KSKara Swisher7:22

        Yep.

    13. SGScott Galloway7:22

        And other than pharmaceutical ads... I mean, basically watching cable TV right now, these shows is al- is essentially a lesson in how much it sucks to get old. Oh, you ha- you're constipated and you have restless legs? Anyways, uh, this, this medium-

12. 7:36 – 8:25

    Legacy institutions aren’t ‘bad’—they’re structurally challenged businesses

    1. KSKara Swisher7:36

       I'm getting a series of young advertising people. I, I can't mention all of them yet 'cause they aren't up yet. But suddenly... I mean, we're sold out. We're... I, I would love to do a dance how great we're doing, but I still just hate that they ha- they feel the need to say that New York Times and Washington Post suck and they're terrible. They're not.

    2. SGScott Galloway7:53

       Uh, they're the best of a dying breed. And, and they do a good job. There will always be room for them. I think they will... The problem is, you know, M- Meredith Levien is doing an amazing job and has figured out the business model there. Washington Post is important but it's a shitty business. Okay, that's two.

    3. KSKara Swisher8:10

       Yeah.

    4. SGScott Galloway8:10

       I just named 10 podcasts that are making a bunch of money. The economics-

    5. KSKara Swisher8:14

       Yeah.

    6. SGScott Galloway8:14

       ... are so much different.

    7. KSKara Swisher8:15

       Well, I think CNN's still making money. You wanna-

    8. SGScott Galloway8:18

       Well, I thought we were talking about newspapers.

    9. KSKara Swisher8:19

       ... make it sound like it's not. Maybe making less.

    10. SGScott Galloway8:19

        CNN makes, CNN makes a lot of money.

    11. KSKara Swisher8:21

        Yeah, I know, but I'm saying media reports.

    12. SGScott Galloway8:22

        And not only that. I hate to say this. CNN-

13. 8:25 – 9:02

    Elections as a business catalyst and the ‘AM radio’ parallel for podcasts

    1. KSKara Swisher8:25

       Okay.

    2. SGScott Galloway8:25

       ... The New York Times, Washington Post, and Pivot, quite frankly, from just-

    3. KSKara Swisher8:28

       Yeah.

    4. SGScott Galloway8:28

       ... a pure economic standpoint, the election worked out really well for us.

    5. KSKara Swisher8:32

       Mm-hmm.

    6. SGScott Galloway8:33

       A- our numbers-

    7. KSKara Swisher8:34

       Yeah, it did.

    8. SGScott Galloway8:34

       I would bet the subscriptions... Uh, contrarian media does better when the other guy or gal is in the audience. There's just no getting around it. Podcasts and the medium are AM radio and have definitely tapped into what a lot of people are... clearly was an underserved market, and that is people who wanted to serve a longer, nuanced conversation with a conservative bent on it. And the numbers are just clear.

Episode duration: 9:02