Savannah Guthrie Opens Up About Faith and Family

1. 0:00 – 1:44

   Why a high-profile journalist decided to write publicly about faith

   1. KSKara Swisher0:00

      Savannah Guthrie is the co-anchor of the Today Show and NBC News' chief legal correspondent. She's also the author of Mostly What God Does: Reflections on Seeking and Finding His Love Everywhere. I wanna be clear, this is the real Savannah Guthrie we're talking to, not the AI or deep fake Savannah Guthrie. We'll talk about that in a minute. But I first wanted to talk about the impetus for the book because when you told me about it, um, we text from time to time, you said your, "It's not what you think it's gonna be," and y- you were almost apologetic. It was interesting. Um, and that this would surprise people who know you as Savannah Guthrie, journalist, interviewer, you do tough interviews, uh, you're on the Today Show, you're very well-known. Ta- you're talking about your faith here. Ta- talk to me about what the impetus was 'cause I was surprised actually. I had no idea.

   2. SGSavannah Guthrie0:45

      I know. I was surprised too, and I mean, almost apologetic is just my zone, you know. That's where I s- live, that's where, that's the p- the emotional space I inhabit for, um, (laughs) most of my day. But, you know, honestly, I, my faith has been important to me, it always has been, and all my close friends and my colleagues, everyone knows that. So I don't mean that they would be surprised, but more that I was surprised that it was something I wanted to write about or put out there publicly, not because I was ashamed but because it's so, it's so personal. It's so vulnerable. I mean, if you're gonna write a book about faith and it is in any way authentic then you're more or less putting your heart out there. And in this world, which I don't have to remind you, that's really terrifying. And so for me to put it out there like that, um, I'm certainly not holding myself up as any kind of model of behavior or anything, I'm not any kind of theologian or biblical scholar, it's just reflections from a, a real person, a real life, more, learning more from disappointments and setbacks than any triumph, that's for sure.

2. 1:44 – 3:23

   Quiet faith in a culture that avoids (and obsesses over) religion and politics

   1. KSKara Swisher1:44

      Sh- sure. So one of the things though is, uh, becau- let's leave aside the performative people who talk about religion, who do it for some other reason. Um, you were a quiet, faithful person, as m- as most people are. You know what I mean? That people, they don't... Do you think people are scared? D- not scared and ashamed to talk about it, but you d- 'cause it's so personal, that's why you didn't wanna, you don't talk about it. Or publicly, I guess.

   2. SGSavannah Guthrie2:06

      Yeah, well, I mean, first of all, everyone knows... Yeah, publicly. I mean, I have talked about it, you know, from time to time, which is how this opportunity-

   3. KSKara Swisher2:13

      Mm-hmm.

   4. SGSavannah Guthrie2:13

      ... to write about it came to me. You know, I've, I've certainly never-

   5. KSKara Swisher2:15

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SGSavannah Guthrie2:16

      ... run from it. But, you know, I think people are quiet about their faith because for one thing, our, isn't the mantra you're not supposed to talk about religion or politics?

   7. KSKara Swisher2:22

      Well, yes it is, but that doesn't happen. That doesn't happen.

   8. SGSavannah Guthrie2:25

      Well, I mean, one of those has to hold. (laughs) Yes. It doesn't, it doesn't. But also because, you know, this isn't, I'm not out here trying to proselytize or persuade. I'm, I, the, the truth of the matter is, I never thought I would write a book about God. I, I never thought I'd write any book. And I, and I didn't want to, really. I was happy to just have this be something personal to me. But when the opportunity came up, I found myself not able to say the immediate no I've said to every other offer of any kind of writing whatsoever. And the reason was, was because it seemed-

   9. KSKara Swisher2:58

      Mm-hmm.

   10. SGSavannah Guthrie2:58

       ... intriguing, it seemed challenging, it seemed terrifying, and it's the subject I'm most passionate and interested in. And I'm always telling, you know, especially young producers or interns or people that have ever asked me for advice, I always say, "You know, get outta your comfort zone." Anything interesting you do in your life will be outside your comfort zone. It's on the other side of a big risk that you take. And it had been a while since I had taken-

   11. KSKara Swisher3:21

       Right, right.

   12. SGSavannah Guthrie3:21

       ... my own advice. And so I thought, "I'm gonna try."

3. 3:23 – 5:10

   The book’s core thesis: “Mostly what God does is love you”

   1. KSKara Swisher3:23

      So you write a lot about, um, some deep... By the way, it's a bestseller, so it's doing, people are responding to it. Um, in the book you write about some deeply personal topics, including the loss of your father who died when you were teenagers, you also talk about your husband and your kids and how you see both marriage and parenthood as metaphors for relationships with God. Um, d- talk a little bit about this, h- why you wrote it the way you did.

   2. SGSavannah Guthrie3:46

      Well, the big revelation is mostly what God does, that's the title of the book, and the rest of the sentence is mostly what God does is love you. And I grew up in the church, I, I had a ba- traditional kind of Baptist upbringing and there's a lot about that that I still love and treasure, but there was also a lot of guilt and shame and rules and a sense for me of always failing, never measuring up, and always kinda wondering what this looming God figure might have thought of me. And through a life of, again, more mistakes than anything else, what I came to realize is that mostly what God is doing at any given time is loving us. The, it comes actually from Scripture, it comes from a verse in Ephesians that was retranslated by a scholar named Eugene Peterson. And this, the verse goes, "Watch what God does, and you do it too, the way children learn proper behavior from their parents. Mostly what God does is love you." When I read that sentence years and years ago, it was a radical reframing of how I thought about God, rather than this angry taskmaster scolding or s- being disappointed-

   3. KSKara Swisher4:54

      Mm-hmm.

   4. SGSavannah Guthrie4:54

      ... or w- you know, having a bill of particulars of all the ways we and all of humanity fails. Mostly what God is doing is loving you. That's true for me, it's true for you-

   5. KSKara Swisher5:05

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SGSavannah Guthrie5:05

      ... it's even true for Scott, who's very silent during this conversation.

   7. KSKara Swisher5:06

      He's gonna ti- he's gonna talk in a minute. He comes in with the big...

4. 5:10 – 5:55

   Parenthood as a metaphor for God’s delight and care

   1. SGSavannah Guthrie5:10

      (laughs) I'm, uh, (laughs) I'm, I'm, I'm teasing. But the, the thing is, is that I, I wrote about it in the, in the terms of parenthood because that was another moment where when I had kids, I was in my 40s, I was so lucky to get to have kids-

   2. KSKara Swisher5:23

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SGSavannah Guthrie5:23

      ... at that late date, long after I thought I had screwed up everything and would never have my chance. And h- to have a child is truly the most, I think the closest we'll ever get-

   4. KSKara Swisher5:32

      Mm-hmm.

   5. SGSavannah Guthrie5:32

      ... to understanding how God relates to us. You know, we love our kids, we're amazed by our kids, we delight in our kids, we relish their little accomplishments, we delight in their milestones. We not only love them, we often like them, we adore them. Well, that's how God feels about every human being.

   6. KSKara Swisher5:50

      This is a good

   7. NANarrator5:50

      Come to our, yeah. This is where-

   8. SGSavannah Guthrie5:50

      And I'm not making this up.

   9. KSKara Swisher5:51

      There's other versions.

   10. SGSavannah Guthrie5:52

       This is the very metaphor-

   11. KSKara Swisher5:53

       Yes, I know.

   12. SGSavannah Guthrie5:53

       ... that God uses.

   13. KSKara Swisher5:54

       There are other versions of it.

   14. SGSavannah Guthrie5:55

       Yes.

5. 5:55 – 7:23

   Scott enters: the social value of religion—and the fear of its weaponization

   1. KSKara Swisher5:55

      Scott, why don't you come in here? By the way, you know, uh, uh, God is dog spelled backwards, so dog.

   2. SGScott Galloway6:01

      There you go.

   3. SGSavannah Guthrie6:02

      (laughs)

   4. SGScott Galloway6:02

      Savannah, it's really nice to meet you. Um-

   5. SGSavannah Guthrie6:04

      Hi, Scott.

   6. SGScott Galloway6:04

      ... first off, congratulations on your success. I think this is a brave book for someone in your position to write 'cause you're just subjecting yourself to a lot of scrutiny and your vulnerability and, and I can see why it's a bestseller. So acknowledging that, uh, I, I love what you've written, I love what David Brooks has written about the importance of community and how much comfort religion gives people. And that there's definitely a, a hole in American society where people are having trouble finding each other and the agency of something bigger than them. And religion plays an incredibly important role. And as a devout atheist, I also wanna acknowledge that I think we would probably benefit from an upsurge in religious institutions in America. Having said that, uh, I worry, or what would you do to provide comfort to people when you say mostly what God does, what I see mostly God being used for, quite frankly right now, is oftentimes good people do good things, bad people do bad things. When good people do horrendous things, usually God is at the center or some form of their vision of God. And what I see in America is that religion and legislation, that the line is being blurred and being used for quite frankly, incredible misogyny, incredible discrimination. So what would you do to provide comfort to people that recognize the importance that church plays, but see increasingly that, that God is being, if you will, weaponized?

6. 7:23 – 9:35

   Doubt, suffering, and a “broken world”: Savannah’s response

   1. SGSavannah Guthrie7:23

      Hmm. Well, I understand those, those sentiments, you know, I live in the real world too, and, you know, I write a lot about doubt-

   2. KSKara Swisher7:32

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SGSavannah Guthrie7:32

      ... in the book.

   4. SGScott Galloway7:33

      Mm-hmm.

   5. SGSavannah Guthrie7:33

      And the doubt isn't, does God exist? (laughs) The, the doubt, the crucible of, of doubt for any deeply thinking faithful person is where is God? You know, does, why would, why would a good God allow unmerited suffering?

   6. KSKara Swisher7:46

      Yeah. You say this-

   7. SGSavannah Guthrie7:46

      As for what you're talking about-

   8. KSKara Swisher7:48

      You say this-

   9. SGSavannah Guthrie7:48

      Yeah.

   10. KSKara Swisher7:49

       ... i- in one chapter you write, uh, waking each morning to an overnight news summary, which often has a headline after headline of bad news, you wrote, "It feels like, uh, it feels like, uh, taking 20 punches to the gut in rapid succession."

   11. SGSavannah Guthrie8:00

       Hmm. Yeah. And I mean, I, I hear and understand exactly what Scott is laying out. I mean, again, I live in this world too. I, I would only say that what you're describing has more to do with humans-

   12. SGScott Galloway8:13

       Mm-hmm.

   13. SGSavannah Guthrie8:13

       ... than it does to do with God. And I understand what, uh, I, I, I would say try to get back to the source material.

   14. SGScott Galloway8:22

       Mm-hmm.

   15. SGSavannah Guthrie8:23

       Go back to basics, you know, look for-

   16. SGScott Galloway8:26

       Love the poor.

   17. SGSavannah Guthrie8:27

       ... God for yourself.

   18. SGScott Galloway8:28

       Yeah. Yeah.

   19. SGSavannah Guthrie8:28

       Look within. I mean, looking out in the world, whether, I mean, frankly any human institution and every human, even our most treasured and most devout or most faithful or most moral humans we have, they're still human.

   20. SGScott Galloway8:41

       Mm-hmm.

   21. SGSavannah Guthrie8:42

       And this is, in, in my faith view, this is not the world that God intended. We live in a broken world and, um, there's just no getting around that.

   22. SGScott Galloway8:50

       Mm-hmm.

   23. SGSavannah Guthrie8:50

       And PS, I don't have the answers to that in this little yellow book.

   24. KSKara Swisher8:54

       Mm-hmm.

   25. SGSavannah Guthrie8:54

       I don't. The only thing I say is that I believe that God yearns to engage with us even on our doubts. Even with our doubts. In fact, I think that's, I think that's part of faith. I think doubt is kind of f- faith being worked out. Um, it's not an exception to faith. It's, it's an aspect of faith. Indifference and apathy. Now that might get you a little more opposite of faith. So I understand all those doubts and I don't try to run from them. I try to explain how I have dealt with them either personally with my own setbacks-

   26. SGScott Galloway9:29

       Mm-hmm.

   27. SGSavannah Guthrie9:29

       ... or the world that I see that is, breaks my heart every single day.

7. 9:35 – 11:19

   Who the book is for: not proselytizing, but inviting a ‘fragrance’

   1. KSKara Swisher9:35

      What, what do you, what do you say to... He just said he's a devout atheist, right? Scott just did. I happen to be more of an agnostic 'cause I don't know, and I, I every now and then-

   2. SGScott Galloway9:42

      Which means you're a closeted atheist, but anyway.

   3. KSKara Swisher9:44

      No, I'm not. No, I'm not.

   4. SGSavannah Guthrie9:45

      (laughs)

   5. KSKara Swisher9:45

      Because I've been literally walking by churches recently and thinking I'd like to go in.

   6. SGScott Galloway9:49

      Agreed.

   7. KSKara Swisher9:49

      I don't know why. I don't know. I don't, and I don't go in, by the way.

   8. SGScott Galloway9:52

      Community.

   9. KSKara Swisher9:53

      Um, maybe.

   10. SGScott Galloway9:54

       I'm sorry, I don't mean to answer for you. Go ahead, Kara.

   11. KSKara Swisher9:55

       Okay. I, I don't know. I don't... No, no, it's something else. I don't know what it is. It's not c- I don't wanna see more people, Scott. That's something I wanna do the opposite of.

   12. SGScott Galloway10:02

       (laughs)

   13. KSKara Swisher10:03

       Um, but what, um-

   14. SGScott Galloway10:04

       (laughs)

   15. KSKara Swisher10:04

       It's true, Savannah.

   16. SGSavannah Guthrie10:06

       I know.

   17. KSKara Swisher10:06

       Um-

   18. SGSavannah Guthrie10:06

       I know.

   19. KSKara Swisher10:07

       What, what are you writing for? Are you writing to reach those people or what's, what were you, what's the goal here for you?

   20. SGSavannah Guthrie10:14

       I mean, the book is not for any particular person. I really mean that it is not in any way proselytizing. If it's persuasive, that's not what it's intended to do. It's, it's a description of a relationship with God and I hope that it's ultimately appealing, because I think God is quite compelling. So I, I write about, um, there's a chapter called The Fragrance of the Gospel, right?

   21. SGScott Galloway10:39

       Mm.

   22. SGSavannah Guthrie10:39

       Which is a, a line from scripture. But I say, you know, the idea is it's a fragrance, right? It's not a stench, it's not an odor. It's not the person next to you wearing too much perfume. It's, it's a fragrance. I, I hope that a life that is lived with recognition that God loves every human heart, yourself, and every human you see on the street, I hope that life carries a fragrance that is appealing and compelling. But no, I'm not trying to write to any particular person. I'm trying to write to every particular person who cares to pick up this book. And in a lot of ways, I'm writing to myself, because th- this encouragement is something I need all the time.

   23. KSKara Swisher11:18

       Mm-hmm.

8. 11:19 – 11:56

   Faith as a daily practice: marriage as the analogy for relationship with God

   1. SGSavannah Guthrie11:19

      I mean, I still need to be reminded that God loves me. That n- even more radically that God could like me.

   2. KSKara Swisher11:26

      Yeah.

   3. SGSavannah Guthrie11:26

      I mean, this is, if you could let that in, if you could really let it in even for a moment-

   4. KSKara Swisher11:31

      Mm-hmm.

   5. SGSavannah Guthrie11:32

      ... it's pretty transformative, but it's not the kind of thing that you learn once and then it stands for all time.

   6. KSKara Swisher11:38

      Huh.

   7. SGSavannah Guthrie11:38

      It's like when you get married, you don't say, "I love you, sweetie." And then in 30 years you're like, "Remember I told you on our wedding day."

   8. KSKara Swisher11:44

      No.

   9. SGSavannah Guthrie11:45

      No, you are in it every single day.

   10. KSKara Swisher11:47

       Mm-hmm.

   11. SGSavannah Guthrie11:47

       And you have to continue to seek that connection. And that's how I think about faith as well.

   12. KSKara Swisher11:53

       Scott, by the way, I love you, Scott. Sorry, go ahead.

9. 11:56 – 13:13

   Parenting and religion: Scott’s dilemma as an atheist father

   1. SGScott Galloway11:56

      (laughs) I love you too, Kara. Thank you for saying that. Uh, uh, so I'm asking this question-

   2. SGSavannah Guthrie12:01

      Should I leave? (laughs)

   3. KSKara Swisher12:01

      No. No, it's okay.

   4. SGScott Galloway12:03

      (laughs) So I'm asking you this question generally looking for an answer, not as a comment. Um, what advice, I know you have kids, I have 13 and 16-year-old boys-... and I genuinely struggle with the role that I should play in h- in determining what the role religion should play in their life. As someone who believes at some point I'll look into their eyes, and I believe our relationship will come to an end when I die, I also recognize as someone who's spent a lot of time in temples and churches that there is something wonderful for kids about being involved, uh, in a religious institution. But I struggle with how to incorporate it in a thoughtful way, um, and it was, uh, what advice would you have for someone who, uh, you know, buys into the institutions, not necessarily the lineage, and sees some of, some of the danger? And quite frankly, if I woke up one day and my kid was super religious, I gotta be honest with you, Savannah, I would be heartbroken.

   5. SGSavannah Guthrie13:00

      (laughs)

   6. SGScott Galloway13:01

      And, but at the same time, I realize the value it can play in their lives and I want to incorporate it in a thoughtful way. What advice would you have, uh, uh, for, for parents who feel the same way?

10. 13:13 – 17:58

    Savannah’s approach in an interfaith household: exposure, grace, and space

    1. SGSavannah Guthrie13:13

       Yeah, well, I mean, I'm definitely, uh, with, with ... You asked me, but I definitely do not present myself as somebody who could give any kind of advice on parenting as I'm just struggling along blindly myself.

    2. SGScott Galloway13:24

       Mm-hmm.

    3. SGSavannah Guthrie13:25

       But I'll tell you what I do. I'm with ... And my husband is Jewish. We have an inter-faith household. What I have decided, and this is a little different because I do carry a, a deep faith within me, so what I try to do is share that with my kids.

    4. SGScott Galloway13:38

       Mm-hmm.

    5. SGSavannah Guthrie13:39

       And, yes, to a certain extent, you know, you're talking about religious institutions. I have, uh, I, I go to church. I've always belonged to a religious institution, but to me, I don't let the religious institutions, um, I don't like them ... I don't let them ruin God for me.

    6. SGScott Galloway13:53

       Mm-hmm.

    7. SGSavannah Guthrie13:53

       You know? I try to know God for myself, know Jesus for himself through scriptures, through prayer, through personal interaction, and of our religious institutions, which are imperfect as all humans are, I, I try to take with grace the best that they have to offer and, and, and then have grace with their failings. But what I try to do is teach my kids about the God that I know and not just in a way of dragging them to church, although I do. I ... My sister says w- in our growing up, she said God was the sixth member of our family and what she meant by that was we were always kind of in conversation with God or about God. You know? And when my kids have a problem, I might introduce God into the topic. N- This is easier for me 'cause I believe in God and you don't, but I think that's how I try to do it. And if you, you know, don't have those feelings, you feel strongly, that's different, but if somebody was wondering, they might just say, especially with a 13 and 16-year-old, because I have no doubt your boys are quite smart as you are, you know, it's okay if you wanna investigate that a little bit. And you have to understand that faith is a, is, it's intellectual, but it's also spiritual and emotional. We're on multi-dimensional realms here, okay? So, you know, you can't ... Nobody can sit here and prove it to you and give you a set of facts. Even if they gave you incontrovertible facts, that wouldn't be enough. Faith is, in the end, a leap, and I, if I had older kids, I think that's what I'd say to them. My little kids, you know, these, these, they're seven and nine now, as they start to ask questions, my view is, I've told them what I know, they will choose for themselves their faith or no faith at all, and their ... That will be their choice. I only know my responsibility is to expose them-

    8. KSKara Swisher15:40

       How do you incorporate the Jew-

    9. SGScott Galloway15:41

       ... to the God that I know.

    10. KSKara Swisher15:41

        Your husband being Jewish, is he ... How do you incorporate? 'Cause there's a lot of families like this.

    11. SGSavannah Guthrie15:45

        Well, we s-

    12. KSKara Swisher15:45

        There's like my-

    13. SGSavannah Guthrie15:46

        Yeah, of course.

    14. KSKara Swisher15:46

        My wife is Jewish but we haven't done anything at all and I wouldn't bring them to church, although with my older kids what my ex-wife did was, um, she took them to all different churches all the time. Like, she would go to a temple, she would go to a Sikh temple, she would go to a Bapt- she brought them to a lot ... Uni- Unitarian was where she tended to zero out on, but, um, she took them to a lot of places, which I thought was-

    15. SGSavannah Guthrie16:12

        I think-

    16. KSKara Swisher16:12

        ... kind of a great idea. I couldn't. I didn't.

    17. SGSavannah Guthrie16:14

        I think s- I th- I mean, look, I've, my view is sort of give God some access to their hearts and let him do the rest. I mean, why do we act like we're gonna, what we say is somehow going to be what they end up believing anyway?

    18. KSKara Swisher16:27

        Mm-hmm.

    19. SGSavannah Guthrie16:28

        So, I feel a responsibility because I do feel my faith so strongly that I wanna share with them what I know. My, my husband, he comes from a, a, the Jewish tradition and he shares his traditions and we let those all live alongside each other. Now, look, I- we don't have to get into chapter and verse why at some point, although there's so much in common-

    20. KSKara Swisher16:47

        Mm-hmm.

    21. SGSavannah Guthrie16:47

        ... between our faiths, why at some point there may be questions and a conflict, and when that day comes, I hope that we can answer it with as much love, understanding, grace, and humility as possible, for all we know and all we don't know. But, you know, there's a ... My kids used to go, they don't go to this school anymore, but it wasn't a religious church, a religious school, but it had religious ... It was an old religious school, but 100 years later in New York City, it didn't. But they still had chapel every week and what I loved about it was, you know, the chapel had nothing religious in it, but it was space and time for something other than the here and now, for something other than what's right in front of you. So, maybe this is a long-winded way of getting to something of an answer, Scott, which is to, however you do it, to leave a little space and if God chooses to enter that space, well, won't you be lucky, even though, Scott, you'll be in despair. (laughs)

    22. KSKara Swisher17:38

        (laughs)

    23. SGScott Galloway17:38

        (laughs) Why should anything change?

    24. SGSavannah Guthrie17:40

        But, you know, that's kind-

    25. SGScott Galloway17:41

        Why should anything change?

    26. SGSavannah Guthrie17:42

        Well, you know what, Scott? All I, uh, my big view, and I write about this in the book, is God speaks our language. Like, y- you open your heart and you give a little access point, then let God do the rest. He's God, you're not.

    27. KSKara Swisher17:54

        Or not.... or not.

    28. SGScott Galloway17:55

        Mm-hmm.

    29. SGSavannah Guthrie17:55

        Or not, if you're you, but-

    30. KSKara Swisher17:56

        I think, you know, as you were-
11. 17:58 – 18:28

    Kara on Catholicism, harm, and the surprising pull of quiet

    1. KSKara Swisher17:58

       Yes. As you were sitting here thinking, the reason I am i- interested, uh, I- I was ... grew up Catholic. And I ... they hated g- gay people. They did, they did, they did. And that was what reje- made me reject it so strongly. One of the thing ... and I thought they were horrible in so many ways, the people that ran the church, including around, uh, sexual assault and stuff. Um, but one of the things that I think I'm attracted to is the quiet. It's so quiet in there. And I think you're right, being quiet is a very difficult thing these days. Um, I'm gonna ask you one more question. Scott may have one more, but I do have to ask you about these AI-generated

12. 18:28 – 20:08

    AI knockoffs and fake companion workbooks: authorship in the deepfake era

    1. KSKara Swisher18:28

       companion workbooks being sold to accompany your book. Mine are ... I ... there's full books of Kara Swisher with really creepy-looking, uh, Kara Swisher faces on them. Um-

    2. SGScott Galloway18:38

       You look hot.

    3. KSKara Swisher18:38

       What-

    4. SGScott Galloway18:39

       You look-

    5. SGSavannah Guthrie18:39

       Th- I don't look ho-

    6. SGScott Galloway18:40

       You look hot in those photos.

    7. SGSavannah Guthrie18:40

       Stop it. Stop it. And this-

    8. SGScott Galloway18:41

       Looks like the Cinemax version of Kara. You look hot.

    9. KSKara Swisher18:42

       ... is not going there right now. But Savannah, we have a nice guest here today. We have a nice lady with us. Stop it.

    10. SGScott Galloway18:47

        (laughs)

    11. KSKara Swisher18:47

        Um, when ... What did you think when you ... if you ... you brought them up to me. What- what- what did you think-

    12. SGSavannah Guthrie18:51

        (laughs)

    13. KSKara Swisher18:51

        ... when you first saw them pop up? And these were workbooks-

    14. SGSavannah Guthrie18:54

        I was shocked.

    15. KSKara Swisher18:54

        ... workbooks that-

    16. SGSavannah Guthrie18:54

        Yes.

    17. KSKara Swisher18:55

        ... they- they- they seldom to accompany your book, and you had nothing to do with them. And you could-

    18. SGSavannah Guthrie18:59

        I-

    19. KSKara Swisher18:59

        ... do a workbook, for example.

    20. SGSavannah Guthrie19:01

        Well, yes. I mean, and here's the thing. My mother's the one who told me about it. She said, "Oh, honey, I- I bought your workbook." I'm like, "What workbook?"

    21. KSKara Swisher19:09

        Right.

    22. SGSavannah Guthrie19:09

        And then she told me to look it up, and then I saw it and, you know, what is horrifying about it is ... Well, I mean, first of all, who knows what the heck it says with our names on it?

    23. KSKara Swisher19:17

        Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    24. SGSavannah Guthrie19:18

        But also, people spend their real money. It's not like it's $1. It was 14.99.

    25. KSKara Swisher19:22

        Mm-hmm.

    26. SGSavannah Guthrie19:22

        Actually, at one of my book events, uh, th- this nice lady brought it to me. She said, "I just wanted you to know there are these fake workbooks," and I said, "Oh, hon, I'm- I'm all over it. I know." And I, of course, immediately said it to the publisher, but there's very little they can do. If the ... I don't understand it par- you know, totally from a legal perspective if there's a true likeness to your book-

    27. KSKara Swisher19:42

        Mm-hmm.

    28. SGSavannah Guthrie19:42

        ... like there were a few that came on that were-

    29. KSKara Swisher19:44

        Mm-hmm.

    30. SGSavannah Guthrie19:44

        ... like yellow like mine-
13. 20:08 – 23:36

    Interfaith marriage decisions and the deeper goal: connection and meaningful conversation

    1. SGScott Galloway20:08

       So when you were ... when you and your boyfriend, now husband, were thinking about-

    2. SGSavannah Guthrie20:12

       (laughs)

    3. SGScott Galloway20:12

       ... building a life together a- and you ... I- I don't know if you had the conversation around religion, but it's- it's unlikely-

    4. SGSavannah Guthrie20:19

       Yeah.

    5. SGScott Galloway20:19

       ... unless people meet at church or temple that their exact views on this topic calibrate perfectly.

    6. SGSavannah Guthrie20:26

       Yeah.

    7. SGScott Galloway20:26

       And did you have conversations around this? Did you find you needed to accommodate? Did one person grow into it more than the other? Was it less important to one person than the other, so it sh- it shaped more around who was important too? Talk about how you decided-

    8. SGSavannah Guthrie20:39

       Yeah.

    9. SGScott Galloway20:39

       ... that religion should- should morph or not, such that you could shape a life together.

    10. SGSavannah Guthrie20:44

        We talked about it a lot. And you know, of course, I came up in a tradition where you weren't supposed to marry outside the faith.

    11. SGScott Galloway20:50

        Mm-hmm.

    12. SGSavannah Guthrie20:50

        And I think his tradition probably was the same as well.

    13. KSKara Swisher20:53

        (laughs)

    14. SGSavannah Guthrie20:53

        So, right there, we were already, you know, heretics in some sense. But we talked about it a ton. And, um, we actually ... This isn't the only reason that we faffed around and dated for five long years before getting married, but it is one of the topics that came up. How can we make this work and still have integrity with both of our faiths? And that's something that we're trying to do and not water down either one. And, you know, it's ... I- I kind of indicated this. When they're little, it's easier to do that.

    15. SGScott Galloway21:20

        Mm-hmm.

    16. SGSavannah Guthrie21:21

        When they're older, I anticipate, because I believe my kids ... I hope I'm raising smart, thinking kids who aren't afraid to ask hard questions. You know, I anticipate that that will come up and that we will deal with it as it does.

    17. SGScott Galloway21:34

        Mm-hmm.

    18. SGSavannah Guthrie21:35

        But what I knew I couldn't do was in any way water down or walk away from my faith. And my husband n- has known this about me since our very first date and in no way would ever ask me to. I have to give him a ton of credit, too. I mean, it c- ... For me to not only be this person, but then to be in this strange position where now I'm writing a book about faith which is so out there (laughs) -

    19. KSKara Swisher21:59

        (laughs)

    20. SGSavannah Guthrie21:59

        ... you know? He never once was like, "Well, that's great, sweetie, but do you need to?"

    21. KSKara Swisher22:03

        Mm-hmm.

    22. SGSavannah Guthrie22:03

        He a- he completely and totally supported me, which I am so grateful for. And- and the biggest thing I've learned is whether you have a lot of faith or a lot of doubt or something altogether different, I do think, to your point, Scott, people long for connection.

    23. SGScott Galloway22:21

        Mm-hmm.

    24. SGSavannah Guthrie22:21

        And they wanna have conversations that are deep and meaningful. And I've had more conversations even with friends I've had forever since writing this book. I mean, even Kara and I who are text besties-

    25. KSKara Swisher22:32

        Mm-hmm.

    26. SGSavannah Guthrie22:32

        ... and we've talked about a lot of things and when I said, "Oh, I'm writing this book," that opened up a conversation or a lane of conversation we hadn't had before. And I loved that she was so open and interested and said, like, "Oh, I love talking to people about faith." It doesn't mean, "I agree with your faith." It means, "Isn't it interesting to have these conversations?"

    27. KSKara Swisher22:52

        It is.

    28. SGSavannah Guthrie22:52

        "Isn't this more valuable to spend time talking about what you believe, what you don't believe? Let's connect as humans. This is the stuff that actually matters." And I'm hoping that the book at least creates that opportunity.

    29. KSKara Swisher23:05

        This book is really interesting. I've really enjoyed, uh, reading it. Um, and I think it's good. Scott does talk about community a lot. It's important to ta- it ... This is what it's about, faith and community, which is ... doesn't necessarily have to have any religion at all. Um, the book is Mostly What God Does: Reflections on Seeking and Finding His Love Everywhere by Savannah Guthrie and her AI friends. (laughs) Anyway, thank you so much.

    30. SGSavannah Guthrie23:29

        Thank you. I so enjoyed it. Thanks, Scott. Thanks, Kara.

Episode duration: 23:37