Super Bowl 2026: Scott Galloway Explains Why Anthropic's AI Ads Are "Genius" | Pivot

Scott Galloway 0:00 This is going to be the moment when Sam Altman, quite frankly, shit the bed. [upbeat music]

Kara Swisher 0:11 Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

Scott Galloway 0:17 And I'm Scott Galloway.

Kara Swisher 0:18 To explain for listeners, Scott has a new background in his studio, and guess what? I'm not in it. [chuckles]

Scott Galloway 0:24 Okay, I have no idea what you're talking about. Oh, this!

Kara Swisher 0:27 [chuckles]

Scott Galloway 0:27 This.

Kara Swisher 0:28 Oh, look, it's-

Scott Galloway 0:28 The metaphor-

Kara Swisher 0:29 It's Ed.

Scott Galloway 0:29 [chuckles] The metaphor, the metaphor I would use is that you're my first wife, and these are Belarusian hookers who I have-

Kara Swisher 0:35 [chuckles] I don't see any pivot there.

Scott Galloway 0:37 [chuckles]

Kara Swisher 0:37 There's no, like, me going like this. What is happening?

Scott Galloway 0:42 Uh, do you want the honest truth, or am I supposed to be snarky around this?

Kara Swisher 0:46 Whatever. Either one.

Scott Galloway 0:47 Okay.

Kara Swisher 0:47 It's probably a bad explanation.

Scott Galloway 0:49 Uh, no, I'm very focused on enterprise value, and, um, uh, Prov-- Vox owns a piece of Pivot.

Kara Swisher 0:57 No, we do-

Scott Galloway 0:58 And-

Kara Swisher 0:58 But go ahead. Go ahead.

Scott Galloway 0:59 Well, we, we own it, but Vox... Everyone, uh, uh, the thing I hate about the corporate structure and ownership of Pivot is that everyone has veto authority, but no one has control. I like having control, and as you know, about five years ago, I started launching my own pods, and quite frankly, it's, uh, your Pivot has the biggest reach.

Kara Swisher 1:19 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:19 Um, but-

Kara Swisher 1:20 My Pivot? Now it's my Pivot. It's like our children, your children. Go ahead.

Scott Galloway 1:24 Yeah, but I'm very focused on, um, trying to create distinct enterprise value that I have control over.

Kara Swisher 1:31 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:32 So Pivot, Pivot is the biggest and the best and kind of your firstborn, and I-

Kara Swisher 1:36 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 1:36 ... I love it, and I'm fond of you. But in terms of trying to build enterprise value, I'm focused on the Prof G pods because I control it, and let me tell you, you're the same way.

Kara Swisher 1:45 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:45 You have On with Kara Swisher, you have-

Kara Swisher 1:46 I just have On, that's all. But go ahead.

Scott Galloway 1:49 Well, but control is an addictive substance.

Kara Swisher 1:51 It is.

Scott Galloway 1:51 Uh, and I like making decisions, and quite frankly, we get-- we make a lot of money from Pivot, but-

Kara Swisher 1:58 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 1:58 ... it's very difficult to figure out a path to enterprise value because Fox-

Kara Swisher 2:02 [chuckles]

Scott Galloway 2:02 ... because Vox kind of controls or semi-controls the IP. So I'm just very honestly, very focused on building enterprise value around the plethora of podcasts we are developing here at Prof G. [chuckles]

Kara Swisher 2:13 Yes, but let me make an argument. They don't actually control it. We can do whatever-- we mostly do whatever we want. You know that. It's, it's me you're talking with.

Scott Galloway 2:19 No one's gonna buy, no-- or it's gonna be very difficult for us to sell Pivot for a shit ton of money, and that's the business that I'm in.

Kara Swisher 2:26 Well, not-- well, in a couple of years, we can, certainly. Correct?

Scott Galloway 2:29 [exhales] Yeah, I guess the terms of the agreement are the IP turns back to us.

Kara Swisher 2:33 So it's just me that's your problem. Me.

Scott Galloway 2:35 No, I don't... I, I like working with partners. I've always had partners in my business.

Kara Swisher 2:39 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 2:39 I think that when I advise young entrepreneurs, I'm being serious-

Kara Swisher 2:42 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 2:42 ... do with a partner, because the most rewarding thing, and I think the most rewarding thing in life is to raise kids-

Kara Swisher 2:48 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 2:48 ... with a competent person that you love, and, and also to build economic security with someone you care about. It's just, uh, uh, I think that is really rewarding. I also think it's much more rewarding to build businesses-

Kara Swisher 2:59 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 2:59 ... with someone else. I think one of the most rewarding things about Pivot is-

Kara Swisher 3:02 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 3:02 ... you and I built it together, and occasionally, we get on the phone, and we just bask in our success, and it's really fun.

Kara Swisher 3:07 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 3:08 The way I describe it is, inevitably, when I travel, because I, I'm usually on a corporation's dime-

Kara Swisher 3:15 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 3:15 ... I stay at these amazing places, and inevitably, if I'm, when I'm alone, I get upgraded to literally the presidential s-suite at the George Fifth-

Kara Swisher 3:22 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 3:22 ... in Paris.

Kara Swisher 3:23 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 3:23 But if you're in it alone-

Kara Swisher 3:25 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 3:25 ... it's like it didn't happen.

Kara Swisher 3:26 Right.

Scott Galloway 3:26 It, it just doesn't mean anything.

Kara Swisher 3:28 Yes.

Scott Galloway 3:28 So-

Kara Swisher 3:29 Yeah

Scott Galloway 3:29 ... I do think building businesses, I've always had partners. My partner at Prop G Media is Kathryn Dillon, who I've worked with for fifteen years. My partner at Pivot is you, and to a lesser extent, Jim Bankoff. The-- but yeah, the most rewarding thing is building something with a partner, but, uh, with respect to the pictures behind me-

Kara Swisher 3:47 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 3:47 ... I want to set Prof G, uh, up in a corporate structure position such that I can sell it for a shit ton of money-

Kara Swisher 3:53 Oh, I see

Scott Galloway 3:53 ... to an old media company that's panicking that they're not in the fastest-growing [chuckles] ad-supported medium. Is that too much information? [chuckles]

Kara Swisher 4:00 Oh, and then what are you gonna do with your first marriage, Pivot, that got you all that? That got you.

Scott Galloway 4:05 This, uh, I, I'm still here. I'm here on-

Kara Swisher 4:07 That made you attractive to Russian whores. What, what? [chuckles]

Scott Galloway 4:11 I take you to the Olive Garden every Thursday night. When we get drunk at a convention, we might have some bad sex.

Kara Swisher 4:17 [chuckles] Right.

Scott Galloway 4:17 But, you know, I'm still here.

Kara Swisher 4:19 Uh-huh.

Scott Galloway 4:19 I'm still here.

Kara Swisher 4:20 Uh.

Scott Galloway 4:20 I'm hanging around until the kids go to college-

Kara Swisher 4:22 Oh, my God

Scott Galloway 4:23 ... until Taylor and Zoë go off to college.

Kara Swisher 4:25 Uh-huh. Uh-huh. [chuckles]

Scott Galloway 4:26 You know, I, I gotta be honest, Kara, at this point in my life-

Kara Swisher 4:30 Yeah

Scott Galloway 4:31 ... it's like this, this, uh, resist and subscribe. A lot of people reached out to me and said, "Why didn't you organize with these people?" And like, the idea-

Kara Swisher 4:37 Yes, I've heard that. I've gotten a lot of calls from people saying that.

Scott Galloway 4:39 The idea of getting a bunch of activists and liberal, uh, media figures on the phone and trying to get consensus sounds like my worst fucking nightmare.

Kara Swisher 4:49 Yeah, I got that from, like, a dozen people. Who, who was the last one? Katie Couric? Katie Couric, I think.

Scott Galloway 4:54 Oh, yeah, Katie reached out to me.

Kara Swisher 4:55 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 4:55 And to be honest-

Kara Swisher 4:56 Yeah

Scott Galloway 4:57 ... they're right, but my view is, I'm a ready, fire, aim guy.

Kara Swisher 5:00 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 5:00 I'm gonna do what I can do-

Kara Swisher 5:01 And that's what I said

Scott Galloway 5:01 ... we've got a ton of momentum, and then-

Kara Swisher 5:03 Yeah

Scott Galloway 5:03 ... you do your thing, and I'll support you.

Kara Swisher 5:05 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 5:05 But the idea of getting on the phone with all of these people to decide whether Netflix should be on the list or not, that's just not my style, Kara. [chuckles]

Kara Swisher 5:12 I know that. I know it. I-- everyone was like: "Why do you do that?" I'm like: "Because he doesn't like you." [chuckles] Like, I don't know. He just won't sit in the room with you.

Scott Galloway 5:18 No, it's not that I don't like these people. It's like-

Kara Swisher 5:19 No, I know

Scott Galloway 5:20 ... I would rather take a leadership-

Kara Swisher 5:21 You know what I mean. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 5:22 No business I have ever started made any sense.

Kara Swisher 5:24 Yeah, yeah.

Scott Galloway 5:25 But my-- and not only that-

Kara Swisher 5:26 You want to do your own thing?

Scott Galloway 5:28 This goes, this goes to a deeper spiritual thing. One of the things I don't like about getting older-

Kara Swisher 5:32 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 5:32 ... I used to be more fearless when I was younger. I used to call people I wanted to meet, uh, and I used to approach people. I used to g- g- go to crash parties I wasn't invited to, and now I'm just sort of-... recently, heckling from the cheap seats. I have very strong opinions about everything, but I'm doing less, and I wanna move back to taking risks and actually doing shit and risking public failure, 'cause I think that has been, uh, other than being born a white heterosexual male in the '60s, and the irrational passion for my well-being of my mother, the thing, the reason I am somewhat successful is I've never been afraid of public failure.

Kara Swisher 6:08 Yep, yep.

Scott Galloway 6:09 And I've gotten more af-

Kara Swisher 6:09 Speaking of which-

Scott Galloway 6:10 I've gotten more afraid as I've gotten older. I wanna get more-

Kara Swisher 6:13 Yeah, you've gotta get back.

Scott Galloway 6:14 I wanna get in the game.

Kara Swisher 6:14 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 6:14 I wanna get back on the field.

Kara Swisher 6:15 It's okay, you can leave me. You'll see what happens when you leave me. Anyway, I don't really care. I have other things I can do. Um-

Scott Galloway 6:20 I'm not leaving you!

Kara Swisher 6:21 Uh, I'm... Jesus.

Scott Galloway 6:21 I still return your angry text messages at 2:00 a.m.

Kara Swisher 6:24 No, guess who called me the other night? You, 'cause you wanted to chitty-chat with your favorite person on the planet, but let me just say-

Scott Galloway 6:30 Oh, I had an edible and I was bored. No one else would talk to me.

Kara Swisher 6:32 Okay. [chuckles] All right, so-

Scott Galloway 6:32 I had to call someone in Eastern Standard Time, 'cause everyone else was asleep.

Kara Swisher 6:36 [laughing] So, no, but we've been sharing, you've been sharing, speaking of looking ridiculous, what, why, why were you in a fur coat looking like a unsuccessful pimp for your Resist and Unsubscribe? That ma- made me laugh my ass off, I have to say.

Scott Galloway 6:50 Uh-

Kara Swisher 6:50 With a hat.

Scott Galloway 6:51 Well, it was-

Kara Swisher 6:51 Tell me where it's... Where are you right now? Give me a quick update, and then we've got a lot to talk about today.

Scott Galloway 6:56 So I, I like-- I think the truth has a nice ring to it. Out of the gates, it was bigger than I expected. I got to about hundred thousand, hundred and fifty thousand uniques a day. It has leveled off, and it's not growing, and I'm not hearing from as many CEOs. So I've been doing some research around: how do you sustain a movement like this?

Kara Swisher 7:13 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 7:13 And one of them was-

Kara Swisher 7:14 Showing with people, because [chuckles] ...

Scott Galloway 7:16 [chuckles] The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. I will take over this island on my own! I'm like one of those-

Kara Swisher 7:22 You won't do it

Scott Galloway 7:22 ... Japanese soldiers in the hills of the Philippines twenty years after-

Kara Swisher 7:25 Yes, shooting

Scott Galloway 7:25 ... the war has ended.

Kara Swisher 7:26 [chuckles] Yeah.

Scott Galloway 7:26 Terrorizing everybody.

Kara Swisher 7:28 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 7:28 No, but this, there was a study done out of Kellogg, and it found that it's actually not economic damage, it's public shaming vis-a-vis the media. It's media attention. And so I've been going on CNN once or twice a day. I was on MSNBC Now, I've been on NPR. I'm about to go on-

Kara Swisher 7:43 You need to go on Fox.

Scott Galloway 7:45 Yeah, I'm probably gonna go on Fox. I mean, I'm like you. This is gonna sound arrogant, but it's true. I can get on any network any day of the week, and-

Kara Swisher 7:52 Oh, I know. I get it.

Scott Galloway 7:53 And what's interesting, though, is when I do... And I'll come back to the-- When I do these crazy, unchained, you know, weird, "he's definitely not running for president now", videos, [chuckles]

Kara Swisher 8:04 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 8:05 ... uh, they get about five or six hundred thousand to a million views, and when I go on CNN Prime Time, I get three to four hundred thousand. So the power of social is so powerful, and what I find about social is it's a chance to be your spirit animal, and people love that. People love-- I went up to, I went up to, you know, my partner's closet.

Kara Swisher 8:26 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 8:26 I grabbed a fur coat-

Kara Swisher 8:27 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 8:27 ... and a ridiculous hat-

Kara Swisher 8:29 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 8:29 ... because I was gonna talk about Landman.

Kara Swisher 8:30 That's your hat. Stop pretending. It's your hat.

Scott Galloway 8:32 What's that?

Kara Swisher 8:33 It's your hat and coat, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway 8:34 Well, I like to spend sixteen hundred dollars at Kemo Sabu in Aspen-

Kara Swisher 8:37 [laughing]

Scott Galloway 8:37 ... for a hat that I look like Billy, the special child, who's the latest, the latest winner of the Make-A-Wish Foundation in El Paso, Texas.

Kara Swisher 8:44 Oh, you look so ridiculous.

Scott Galloway 8:45 Um, I look totally fucking ridiculous.

Kara Swisher 8:47 Fucking ridiculous. [chuckles]

Scott Galloway 8:49 But-

Kara Swisher 8:49 Anyway, where, where are we going? Very briefly, Resist and Unsubscribe. We have a lot to talk about today. There's so much.

Scott Galloway 8:54 No, I, I... So a lot of the organizations that do actually organize, Defiance and Indivisible, um, I'm coordinating with now. Uh, I'm trying to reignite the, the momentum, and I'm, I'm going on a bunch of public media, and I'm hearing-- it is inspi-- I mean, granted, I hear from people who are supportive, but I'm hearing from high school kids saying, "I'm trying to get my entire senior class to unsubscribe from Spotify. Will you do a Zoom?" So I'm, I'm trying to... I hate to admit it, but I'm trying to-- The worst thing, what's even worse than fighting with your allies, is fighting without them. So I'm trying to do a better job of-

Kara Swisher 9:32 Yeah

Scott Galloway 9:32 ... reaching out, which I hate.

Kara Swisher 9:34 I know.

Scott Galloway 9:35 But-

Kara Swisher 9:35 But you're gonna have to, sweetie. You gotta-

Scott Galloway 9:37 Yeah, but I-

Kara Swisher 9:37 It takes a village.

Scott Galloway 9:38 It's, it's kind of leveled out, and-

Kara Swisher 9:41 Yeah

Scott Galloway 9:41 ... I need to reestablish-

Kara Swisher 9:42 Yeah, it's a good idea

Scott Galloway 9:43 ... I need to reestablish something going on.

Kara Swisher 9:43 People got excited about your good idea, right?

Scott Galloway 9:46 There you go.

Kara Swisher 9:46 And we'll talk about The Washington Post later, 'cause I've gotten nine hundred calls about that. People are back to-

Scott Galloway 9:51 Well, you know, The Washington Post and, and journalists are just so fucking precious. You guys should have saw-

Kara Swisher 9:55 We're not precious. Scott, I need you to stop. Three hundred people are fired.

Scott Galloway 9:58 Trigger.

Kara Swisher 9:58 Yes, trigger.

Scott Galloway 9:59 Trigger!

Kara Swisher 10:00 You, you-- Literally three hundred people are... I'm gonna slap you back to last Sunday. But first, let's first start-- We'll get to The Washington Post, and you better collect yourself, 'cause I'll slap you. I will. I'll slap you back to last Sunday.

Scott Galloway 10:09 Well, that's the dynamic here. I say something stupid, and then you say-

Kara Swisher 10:12 [chuckles]

Scott Galloway 10:12 ... and then you come in with your warriors of wokeness, and everyone's like: "I love Kara."

Kara Swisher 10:15 No, it's not-

Scott Galloway 10:16 "I love Kara Swisher. I love Kara." [chuckles]

Kara Swisher 10:16 It's not warriors of wokeness. Three hundred people lost their jobs. You could have a little empathy. Anyway-

Scott Galloway 10:21 Twenty thousand people lost their jobs at UPS, Kara.

Kara Swisher 10:23 Yeah, well, so what? You know what? The Washington, we owe The Washington Post-

Scott Galloway 10:25 But, oh, no, it's-

Kara Swisher 10:25 ... a debt of gratitude for the stuff they did for many, many years.

Scott Galloway 10:28 It's people who, you know-

Kara Swisher 10:29 That's right. I, I-

Scott Galloway 10:29 ... whose parents put them through Sarah Lawrence-

Kara Swisher 10:31 We, and we talk about them

Scott Galloway 10:32 ... and they're more precious than everybody else.

Kara Swisher 10:33 And we talk about them. They're not more precious. It's still important. It doesn't matter. You don't have to stack rank people's misery.

Scott Galloway 10:38 I can't wait. You know, no, come on. That, that's not true. I'm not doing that, but-

Kara Swisher 10:42 You do

Scott Galloway 10:42 ... we should talk about it, 'cause I do have some thoughts on it, and I know you got some thoughts on it.

Kara Swisher 10:44 We're gonna get to it, but first, we're

Kara Swisher 10:46 gonna talk about Anthropic, something really kind of fun. Um, it's taking aim at OpenAI and ChatGPT with a series of Super Bowl ads, poking fun. It, it is s-- the perfect satire at recent news that ads are coming to ChatGPT. I wanna play one of the Anthropic ads, all of which, there's four of them, I think, that feature a young man visiting a therapist to talk about his mom. Let's watch.

Scott Galloway 11:06 How do I communicate better with my mom?

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Scott Galloway 11:46 ... What?

Kara Swisher 11:47 [chuckles] The tagline appears on the screen at the end that says, "Ads are coming to AI, but not to Claude." Uh, they've struck a nerve with Sam Altman, the CEO of, uh, OpenAI. Sam posted on X, the ads made him laugh, and then went on to share a novella-sized rant as TechCrunch put it. He argued the campaign was dishonest and misrepresented how ChatGPT would ever use ads. Oh, my God, fuck him if he can't take a joke. I, I, think these ads are brilliant. They actually-- The way they depict, um, chatbots is perfect. That pause, the smile, the kind of, mm, you know, lowest common denominator advice. But you-- These are great branding, as you told me. So tell me, as a Mr. Brands, what do you think about these?

Scott Galloway 12:28 Uh, this is genius, and this will be seen as the pivotal moment for when in twelve months, Anthropic is more valuable than OpenAI. This is a definition of intelligent branding, and one construct or vehicle for great branding is you ladder the competition. Well, the way you ladder the competition to try and zero in on the soft issues, you go, we're this, they're this, and then you say, okay, is this point of differentiation, uh, truly different? Are we really different this way? Two, does anyone care is irrelevant, and three, can we own it? Is it sustainable? So in this instance, they said, "All right, uh, we're not going to have ads." Is that different? Yes. ChatGPT is having ads. That's truly differentiated. Is it relevant? Yeah, it is relevant because you're providing your most intimate information. There's a memory around AI, and the idea that it's not giving you the best answer, but an answer it can monetize is really uncomfortable for people. And then, is it sustainable? Mostly, unless OpenAI, which is a non-zero chance, they might backtrack on this. But basically, this is the perfect branding. It's differentiated, it's relevant to consumers, and it's sustainable, and the execution here is just gorgeous.

Kara Swisher 13:32 Flawless.

Scott Galloway 13:32 It's just-

Kara Swisher 13:33 Flawless

Scott Galloway 13:33 ... beautiful. This-- Occasionally, like, when Hyundai came out with their seven-year warranty ad, that changed the complexion of Hyundai. Occasionally, there's an ad campaign that literally changes everything. They're fewer and fewer because people don't take advertising as seriously. They take real-time innovation more seriously. This will be-- This already is the ad of the Super Bowl. This is going to be the moment when Sam Altman, quite frankly, shit the bed, and Dario became the new face of AI. Uh, but I believe this will be the pivotal moment, with also a focus on enterprise versus the consumer. They're going Dell versus, versus Gateway, going consumer, or they're going enterprise versus consumer.

Kara Swisher 14:14 This is a consumer play because it's all about people asking advice from these things. Let me tell you, one of the things that really struck me, and I don't know how you felt about it, was the tone of voice of these, and the, the-- one is better than that. I just saw another one, and it was, like, perfect.

Scott Galloway 14:26 They're fantastic. The execution is fantastic.

Kara Swisher 14:27 It was a woman talking to them about business plan and was offering her whatever, a web, like a s- like a, like a web space kind of thing. Um, but the voices and the, and the lack of emotion and the lack of empathy in their voices, and yet they're the robotic nature of people. This is what-

Scott Galloway 14:45 Well, and the shift in the tone?

Kara Swisher 14:46 ... AI sounds like to people.

Scott Galloway 14:47 The shift in the tone, it goes from human to anodyne.

Kara Swisher 14:50 Mm-hmm. Exactly.

Scott Galloway 14:51 I- it is genius, actually. And the thing about-

Kara Swisher 14:53 And pauses-

Scott Galloway 14:54 You're-

Kara Swisher 14:54 ... the pause until they answer. The-- Because no one would do that, right? Everybody jumps all up. When they talk, they have a normal interaction, but the pause is what got me. It was perfect.

Scott Galloway 15:05 Well, the Super Bowl is basically, the ads aren't worth it. Whatever they're charging, eight, eight million for thirty seconds, it's not worth it. The only way it's worth it, and you know r- you know if the ad was worth it before the ad ever airs, and that is how much plays are getting on YouTube. And, and already, Anthropic's ads are worth more than they're spending because everybody's talking about its buzz. Ben Stiller's ad for Instacart is going to be the silver medalist here. It's fucking hilarious.

Kara Swisher 15:32 It is. It's with, um... What's his name? Oh, that guy.

Scott Galloway 15:35 Yeah, he does flips and everything. But basically-

Kara Swisher 15:38 Don't do the flip.

Scott Galloway 15:39 This has nothing to do with the ad on the Super Bowl. It's about your permission-

Kara Swisher 15:43 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 15:44 ... to be evaluated and go viral because you're advertising at the Super Bowl.

Kara Swisher 15:47 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 15:48 And already, Anthropic has gotten a huge, huge return. And also, if you'll notice-

Kara Swisher 15:54 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 15:54 ... Sam Altman is sounding very defensive.

Kara Swisher 15:56 He-- Oh, my God, I laughed, but, like, you know, that, that-- he should have said nothing or said, "That was funny." Those were the only two answers, right? That was Benson Boone in the, in the Ben Stiller ad.

Scott Galloway 16:07 But this was, this was a pivotal turning moment.

Kara Swisher 16:09 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 16:09 What do you think?

Kara Swisher 16:10 I thought I just loved it. I thought it was perfect. It also was, you know, it really put a finger on what people don't like about AI, right? It really did. Yeah, they're such like, ew, like, ugh, like, it's not a person. And it, it was, it was actually kind of in their brand of we're not those guys, right? Like, you know, a- also, it, it didn't say what they were, but it said what they weren't, and I think that-- and what they aren't is something that's very unattractive to people, right? What, what they are is attractive. It's like, I want to, I want to use this AI, but I don't want that. Like, that's what I thought was effective there. And it, it, it, it, for, it, it, the, the, a- the p- actors who are doing the chatbots are... The workout one with the guy working out was-

Scott Galloway 16:57 I thought of the Old Spice commercials. "I'm here on a horse. I have diamonds in my hand." [chuckles]

Kara Swisher 17:00 Yeah, I know. It was perfect. But, uh, it was-- Anyway, good job, uh, Claude and, oh, and Anthropic. It really is. And the, and Sam really should have just said, "That was really funny. Loved it."

Scott Galloway 17:10 But what's-

Kara Swisher 17:11 Kind of stuff.

Scott Galloway 17:11 What's more uncomfortable about this is the following: The number one use case of AI, do you know what it is?

Kara Swisher 17:18 Mm-mm.

Scott Galloway 17:19 Therapy.

Kara Swisher 17:20 Mm.

Scott Galloway 17:20 So imagine you're giving someone the most intimate details about your life-

Kara Swisher 17:25 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 17:25 ... and then the AI decides where to insert an ad. It's imagine-

Kara Swisher 17:29 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 17:30 I've, I've been-- I'm getting served all of these ring light therapists that are, quote, unquote-

Kara Swisher 17:33 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 17:33 ... "mental health professionals," telling everyone: "You don't need a job, you don't need a relationship."

Kara Swisher 17:37 Right.

Scott Galloway 17:37 "You need to work on yourself first." Yeah, that, that's helpful.

Kara Swisher 17:40 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 17:40 Anyways, I heard one of these ring light therapists recommending a dating site, and I thought, "Is this person being compensated by this dating site?" Imagine sitting down and talking to a therapist and giving them your most intimate details, and they say, "Oh, you should absolutely go on LexaPro. And by the way, uh-... I'm sponsored by Eli Lilly or whatever.

Kara Swisher 17:59 Well, although doctors are, aren't they? They, I mean, that's a, that's a tale as old as time. Anyway, it, it-

Scott Galloway 18:03 But, but people are using AI-

Kara Swisher 18:05 Yeah

Scott Galloway 18:05 ... as a more trusted doctor than their doctor.

Kara Swisher 18:07 It is. It is.

Scott Galloway 18:07 People are going to AI-

Kara Swisher 18:09 Yeah

Scott Galloway 18:10 ... saying-

Kara Swisher 18:10 I mean, doctors get all those gimmies from pharmacy people, you know that. Like, there's a whole-

Scott Galloway 18:15 And, and by the way, that's been seriously pulled back and regulated-

Kara Swisher 18:17 That's right

Scott Galloway 18:17 ... as it should. I used to get invited to these dinners to s- to speak about, uh, back when I was running a brand strategy firm-

Kara Swisher 18:24 Sky mercy

Scott Galloway 18:24 ... I used to get invited to these dinners with, with neurosurgeons sponsored by Sandoz or whatever.

Kara Swisher 18:29 Yeah, yeah.

Scott Galloway 18:30 And they've pulled back on that a lot 'cause they realized-

Kara Swisher 18:33 Yeah, they should.

Scott Galloway 18:33 But if you're giving AI-

Kara Swisher 18:34 Really. Correct

Scott Galloway 18:34 ... the most intimate de-- If you're saying to AI, "Okay, I have panc- I, I have prostate cancer. My Gleason scores are this, and I don't know whether I should have my prostate removed or if I should just continue therapy, low-fat diet." The idea that the AI might be trying to figure out what ad to insert at that moment?

Kara Swisher 18:54 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Scott Galloway 18:55 So, it-

Kara Swisher 18:55 It has a very Facebooky feel to it, [chuckles] I'll tell you.

Scott Galloway 18:58 With Google, you expect it.

Kara Swisher 18:59 Yeah. Right, it's-

Scott Galloway 18:59 With Facebook, you expect it. But right now, everyone's under the impression that the AI is their friend-

Kara Swisher 19:03 Is here to help you

Scott Galloway 19:04 ... and trying to help them.

Kara Swisher 19:05 Yep, yep. Absolutely. All right,

Kara Swisher 19:07 moving from that, let's run through a rapid-fire update of all the Epstein news that's happened since we talked. I mean, seriously, this is just... First, let's listen to what President Trump had to say to CNN's Kaitlan Collins when asked about Epstein's victims. This was something else, and then J.D. Vance followed up with a really even worse version of it, but let's listen.

Speaker 19:24 Yeah, what did, what did you say? Go ahead, CNN. What would you say to the survivors who feel they've been- You are the worst reporter. No one to see-- CNN has no ratings because of people like you. You know, she's a young woman. I don't think I've ever seen you smile. I've known you for 10 years. I don't think I've ever seen a smile on your face. Well, I'm asking you about survivors of Jeffrey Epstein- You know why? You know why you're not smiling? 'Cause you know you're not telling the truth.

Kara Swisher 19:46 Uh, uh, that was something. Nick, uh, uh, that was something. Uh, let me say, I think the reason she got under his skin is 'cause what she was talking about was the survivors of Donald Trump. You know what I mean?

Scott Galloway 19:57 Well, you mean that he's mentioned fifty-seven hundred times in the Epstein files?

Kara Swisher 19:59 Yes, exactly. I think he knows. Deep in his, i- in his incredibly narcissistic denial personality, he knows, right? And so he knows what happened. These people know what happened, and so, you know, it's typical old man, says, "I've never seen you smile." I've had that. Women have that happen to them all the time.

Scott Galloway 20:15 Oh, smile, sweetheart.

Kara Swisher 20:17 Yeah, you should smile more. [chuckles] You should put Kara Swisher on the back of your thing and say thank you. But, um, but, uh, it's really, it was really something. That was really something, and, uh, and then what was incredible is that J.D. Vance followed it in a really ridiculous interview with Megyn Kelly, in which he said: "Well, he just wants her to have fun, you know?" Oh, my God, he's, he's at the cringiest cringe of... He just takes something that's bad and makes it worse, which is really hard to do in this situation.

Scott Galloway 20:43 I thought- I see, it's funny, I had a different reaction there.

Kara Swisher 20:45 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 20:45 I kind of expected it from J- what I thought was especially heinous was Megyn Kelly defending-

Kara Swisher 20:49 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 20:50 The president referenced her menstrual cycle. I- I- there's a, there's got to be a line where, as someone has a certain level, a- and I go back, you know, uh, not just, not just men. Everyone should have a code and lines. You know, i- the key isn't to be likable. You-- Everyone deserves boundaries in a relationship and boundaries around the behavior they will accept and not accept. When the president insulted the looks of Senator Cruz's wife, that should have been a red line, and it should be like, "I'm never supporting you ever again." And when the president referenced Megyn Kelly's menstrual cycle-

Kara Swisher 21:20 Yeah

Scott Galloway 21:21 ... that should have been a line where she would, I would think, for the rest of her career go, "This guy has a problem-

Kara Swisher 21:26 Right

Scott Galloway 21:26 ... when it comes to women." And I was, I was, uh, texting this morning with, uh, Molly Jong-Fast, and the, the thing I've been trying to wrap my hands around, I want to get your viewpoint here around the Epstein files, and the problem is, or I see the biggest problem, is that what we need is a, a thick layer of an institution that we trust, and that used to be the Department of Justice, to go through, and the FBI, these, these three million pages and say: Okay, our job is to use discretion in the rule of law to parse what is illegal criminal behavior that deserves public attention and what does not deserve public attention, like being on an invite list to a party in St. Barts that Jeffrey Epstein was gonna... 'Cause right now, we're over-punishing shit that is trivial and superfluous, and we're under-punishing child rape.

Kara Swisher 22:16 Yep, absolutely.

Scott Galloway 22:17 E- everything has been mushed together, and-

Kara Swisher 22:19 Yeah

Scott Galloway 22:19 ... it, because we don't trust an institution-

Kara Swisher 22:22 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 22:22 ... to go through this and say, "This is criminal activity and warrants public scrutiny and legal scrutiny."

Kara Swisher 22:27 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 22:27 "And quite frankly, folks, we're not even gonna release this shit 'cause all it does is impugn people for no reason."

Kara Swisher 22:34 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 22:34 But the problem is, there's no arbiter, there's no institution that traditionally we've had trust in, that we're comfortable with doing it. So everyone's like, "Release the files." They release all three million. I don't even know if this is helping right now.

Kara Swisher 22:46 No, there's more. They're- they've released half. They've released half. They're not gonna release the-

Scott Galloway 22:49 What are your thoughts?

Kara Swisher 22:50 I, I just-- He's a pig. I'm sorry. He's just an old man pig, and J.D. Vance made it worse, and Megyn Kelly, forget it, she's a fluffer to all of them, and she's gonna put this on her show. So, hey, Megyn, good to give you content. You'll attack me and not Scott, who's appropriately critical of you, but that's fine. Whatever you want, girl. Um, next up, Bill Clinton-

Scott Galloway 23:08 I've been on Megyn's show. Have you been on her show?

Kara Swisher 23:09 No, of course not. Why would I? Why would I soil myself?

Scott Galloway 23:12 I don't get it, though. I think she's very talented.

Kara Swisher 23:14 She has turned into something else, Scott. You're not paying attention-

Scott Galloway 23:17 But something... No, no, no, no, no.

Kara Swisher 23:17 To it.

Scott Galloway 23:18 Don't-

Kara Swisher 23:18 Okay, go ahead

Scott Galloway 23:18 ... don't interrupt my sentence to score points-

Kara Swisher 23:20 I, mm

Scott Galloway 23:20 ... with your woke warriors.

Kara Swisher 23:21 I, not, oh, stop with the-

Scott Galloway 23:21 What I was going to say-

Kara Swisher 23:22 What is with you with the woke warriors?

Scott Galloway 23:23 What I was going to say-

Kara Swisher 23:25 Did something happen to you, Molly?

Scott Galloway 23:25 Well, let, let me finish

Kara Swisher 23:26 Okay

Scott Galloway 23:26 ... is that I registered that she, like Candace Owens-

Kara Swisher 23:30 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 23:30 ... has literally gone off the fucking deep end.

Kara Swisher 23:32 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 23:32 And I can't figure out if it's because the rage, uh, algorithms love rage bait, so they get more money-

Kara Swisher 23:38 They just want

Scott Galloway 23:38 ... every time they say something incendiary, or they have literally gone insane.

Kara Swisher 23:42 Mm.

Scott Galloway 23:42 Like, they haven't taken a red pill, they've swallowed like, you know, a red cyanide pill.

Kara Swisher 23:47 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 23:47 But I would argue over the last few years, Megyn has gone very, very conspiracy theory-

Kara Swisher 23:53 Yeah

Scott Galloway 23:54 ... and has decided, the more insane, incendiary shit I say-

Kara Swisher 23:57 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 23:58 ... uh, is it that she's making money, or is she, has she seriously lost her shit?

Kara Swisher 24:03 ... Yeah, I don't know. I, honestly, she, [sighs] she's- I don't care. She's just one of those people I've decided to, like, put in the trash bin of my, uh... Whatever. She can, she can say whatever she wants about me. If I provide good content to her, k- knock yourself out, girl. Anyway, Bill and Hillary Clinton have agreed to be deposed on camera at public hearings in the Epstein investigation. That should be something. Obviously, when I interviewed Ro Khanna, he said they absolutely should. I agree, so should President Trump. They should also bring him in. They should bring all these people in. Um, but they're having them, and Hillary did this morning, was like: "Bring it on!" Like, I'm a little scared for the Republicans, honestly, and she wants cameras there. She's like, so obviously she's got something up her sleeve, and I wouldn't- I don't- I think this woman has run out of fucks after being, like, whacked around. I mean, some of it is her fault, but boy, have they just... She's, she's loaded for bear, I would say, is my feeling. And, um, they could throw themse- they could... She's gonna talk about Trump the whole time. That's what she's gonna do.

Scott Galloway 25:02 It- it's funny, in my, going back to my brand strategy course-

Kara Swisher 25:04 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 25:04 ... I do people as brands, and I-

Kara Swisher 25:06 Yeah

Scott Galloway 25:06 ... look at them as brands and break down the core attributes.

Kara Swisher 25:08 Thank you.

Scott Galloway 25:08 And I did the Clintons, and I did Bill and Hillary, and they both, especially Bill, but their brand attributes that are so powerful. First off, Bill has Oprah-like empathy. I generally get the sen- when I met Bill Clinton, I thought, "This guy cares about me. I'm gonna support him the rest of my life." I got-

Kara Swisher 25:25 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 25:25 You get the sense he genuinely, like-

Kara Swisher 25:27 He does. He's very

Scott Galloway 25:28 ... cares.

Kara Swisher 25:28 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 25:29 And it's so-- It comes across as so genuine, it's hard to believe it's not genuine. Anyways, the second thing is, you would never want the Clintons on the other side of anything you're doing.

Kara Swisher 25:39 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 25:40 These people are ruthless and smart.

Kara Swisher 25:42 [chuckles]

Scott Galloway 25:43 I don't care if you're, I don't care if you're picking players for a softball team.

Kara Swisher 25:46 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 25:46 If these people had no athletic ability, I would still want them on my team-

Kara Swisher 25:49 [laughing]

Scott Galloway 25:49 ... because they would figure out a way to kneecap the second baseman.

Kara Swisher 25:52 [chuckles] Throw a... I think she's good at, I think she's great-

Scott Galloway 25:54 If I-- I can't wait for this

Kara Swisher 25:56 ... softball.

Scott Galloway 25:56 And if I were, if I were the Trump administration, the last fucking thing I would want-

Kara Swisher 26:01 Is those two

Scott Galloway 26:01 ... is cameras on a very well-prepared, hundred and fifty-five fucking IQ-

Kara Swisher 26:06 [chuckles]

Scott Galloway 26:07 ... Secretary Clinton, because she is-

Kara Swisher 26:09 Well, did you see Cl- did you see Trump said, "I like Bill Clinton"? Like, he was trying to-

Scott Galloway 26:12 All of a sudden, he's trying to be like-

Kara Swisher 26:14 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 26:14 ... "They're pretty good people." Going-

Kara Swisher 26:15 Then they shouldn't have to undergo this. [chuckles]

Scott Galloway 26:17 You, I'm sorry, Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton are testifying?

Kara Swisher 26:23 Oh.

Scott Galloway 26:24 Could these-- Could the Trump administration-

Kara Swisher 26:26 Be any stupider

Scott Galloway 26:27 ... be more stupid? And you're gonna have a bunch of... Trust me, there's gonna be three or four moments-

Kara Swisher 26:31 They're never gonna win

Scott Galloway 26:32 ... where some idiot staffer has given-

Kara Swisher 26:34 Yeah

Scott Galloway 26:34 ... a bigger idiot, Republican-

Kara Swisher 26:36 Comer

Scott Galloway 26:37 ... a stupid question.

Kara Swisher 26:38 He's so dumb.

Scott Galloway 26:38 And you are going to see one of the Clintons slap them back so silly. I can't, I literally can't, I'm not gonna watch this. This is my Super Bowl. I can't wait for this.

Kara Swisher 26:51 Yeah. Anyway, m- le- let's get through the la- last two. Melinda French Gates, another smart cookie, said references to her ex-husband, um, uh, filled her with unbelievable sadness, that he, along with others, needed to answer the question that remained. Gates himself apologized yet again, but I thought Melinda Gates handled herself with so much [chuckles] class, given she keeps getting asked about her, the behavior of her ex-husband. Um, I would hate, I would hate that. I would hate that. I thought she handled it well. And, and let me add into that, you can pick either one. CBS is pulling a sixty-minute segment with longevity guru Peter Attia, but the network's news editor-in-chief, Barry Weiss, is reportedly refusing to fire him and contribute. Um, I'll, I'll weigh in very quickly here. I've heard from a lot of Paramount people, they really want him gone, and they should, because you can easily replace him with someone like Scott Galloway, for example, who knows all about this. He's, he's, you know, Scott could actually do a good job.

Scott Galloway 27:39 You're the longevity person now.

Kara Swisher 27:41 Yeah, I'm the longevity person. I'm using it for marketing. I'm like, "Great, keep this, like, keep this, uh, Epstein-soiled, um, person, who already a lot of people think is a bit of a grifter, uh, on there." And plus, she's added, uh, um, Andrew Huberman, I know you like him, but... And, and Mark Hyman, who is really... I'm sorry, it's just codswallop, a lot of the stuff he, he blablas about. Um, anyway, e- either one, Melinda or-

Scott Galloway 28:05 Yeah, but-

Kara Swisher 28:06 Peter

Scott Galloway 28:06 ... okay, so I, I think, I think Melinda French Gates joins a crew of women, and this is sexist, who seem to have a different approach to how they acquit themselves when they become billionaires. And that is, they're more focused on philanthropy, they demonstrate grace, they demonstrate empathy, focused on their kids, and they, they have just... I mean, I've told you this, kind of one of my personal heroes is Mackenzie Scott. The approach she takes to her life and giving versus the other half of the marriage, it's just, there's something about the female brain, and this is sexist because I'm distinguishing-

Kara Swisher 28:43 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 28:43 ... between the sexes.

Kara Swisher 28:44 It's, it's actually true.

Scott Galloway 28:45 And by the way, let me be clear. Let me, let me piss off women. I think men, oftentimes the male brone- brain, because of testosterone and more risk aggressiveness, sometimes, more than often, make outstanding entrepreneurs, and I think that male aggression has put us on the moon and discovered vaccines. So let me give some credit that is also disparaging, or people are gonna take it as a hate crime against women. When they become billionaires, it appears that the female brain is much more about, "How do I help others?" Versus, "How can I have the most fucking fabulous life with, with, you know, in Aspen?" There does seem to be a real distinct difference between these divorces and how the female side of the equation acquits themselves versus the male equation. Dr. Att-

Kara Swisher 29:28 I would say Sergey Brin and Anne Wojcicki is another example of that.

Scott Galloway 29:31 They're everywhere!

Kara Swisher 29:32 She, she got-

Scott Galloway 29:32 Look at these examples everywhere.

Kara Swisher 29:33 She got dragged to Epstein Island by him, too, so.

Scott Galloway 29:35 Look at all these examples everywhere.

Kara Swisher 29:36 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 29:37 And then, uh, also, though, and I think we're gonna agree on this or disagree on this, but I want to... I think Dr. Peter Attia is a fucking distraction here. Let his colleagues, let his podcast listeners, let his podcast network-- As far as I can tell, he did not commit a crime. He just comes across-

Kara Swisher 29:52 No, of course not

Scott Galloway 29:52 ... as a creep. Hold on.

Kara Swisher 29:52 We don't think that.

Scott Galloway 29:53 Hold on. But, but there is credible evidence that the President of the United States, who has been mentioned fifty-seven hundred times, may have engaged in child rape.... So I could give a flying fuck about a longevity doctor and the creepy emails he sends. This is about criminal activity amongst our, [chuckles] our cabinet and our, our president, and not creepy emails from a wellness doctor.

Kara Swisher 30:21 I get your point, and I, I'm gonna say yes, but do we have-- Again, as I said before, do we have to stack rank these things? I mean, you can say, and I agree with you-

Scott Galloway 30:28 Yeah!

Kara Swisher 30:28 I repeat-

Scott Galloway 30:29 One's, one's about indictments.

Kara Swisher 30:30 Of course.

Scott Galloway 30:30 The other's about who cares?

Kara Swisher 30:31 They should be-- We should be focused on criminally indicting the people who have, who have abused young women. Or young women, not women, young girls-

Scott Galloway 30:39 Girls

Kara Swisher 30:39 ... uh, children. Let's just go right to children.

Scott Galloway 30:41 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 30:41 I'm not speaking of Megyn Kelly trying to figure out which age is okay. None of them. [chuckles]

Scott Galloway 30:47 [chuckles] The, the, the fifteen-year-old.

Kara Swisher 30:49 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 30:49 They're fifteen, they look like they're eighteen, so it's okay.

Kara Swisher 30:52 Eh, they're wearing, you know, extensions, [chuckles] you know, like, oh, my God! Like, so I agree with you on that. That said, the, it, it's okay to say ew to ano-- like, Howard Lutnick, yuck, what a liar a- about his, his affiliations with things. It's okay to say, "Wow, Peter Attia, what a creepy dude!" It's okay to do that also, that's all. I, I, I just don't think you have to, like-

Scott Galloway 31:16 There should be a DOJ-

Kara Swisher 31:17 There should be

Scott Galloway 31:18 ... releasing to the public information and to grand juries to get indictments on criminal behavior.

Kara Swisher 31:22 Agreed.

Scott Galloway 31:23 And quite frankly, they should not be releasing... [inhales] Uh, Kevin Marsh, or whatever his name is, it comes out-

Kara Swisher 31:28 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 31:28 He's in the Epstein files because he was on an invite list.

Kara Swisher 31:30 I, I... Yes.

Scott Galloway 31:31 If we had institutions we could still trust that aren't perverted by the president's total overrun of a co-equal branch of government, you could have an FBI and a DOJ that would say, "Here's the information [chuckles] we're releasing 'cause it's pertinent, and here's the information we're not releasing, 'cause all it does is create distraction-

Kara Swisher 31:49 Agreed

Scott Galloway 31:49 ... and dilution of the real criminals here."

Kara Swisher 31:50 But the guy who was head of Paul, Weiss, who acquiesced very early to the Trumps, he had to step down because of his... I mean, I'm just saying, there are devils. I agree with you. I think we are actually agreed on this. Um, but I just would note that Peter Attia wrote, "The worst thing about being friends with Epstein was that he couldn't tell a soul about the fi- financier's outrageous life." I wouldn't want to work with this fucker. So anyway, um, let's go on a quick break.

Scott Galloway 32:12 If, if AI went through every email you've sent, could they find shit that makes you look really bad?

Kara Swisher 32:17 Not like this, no. Not even close. No, no.

Scott Galloway 32:20 Yeah, that's probably true.

Kara Swisher 32:21 No, and not you either, by the way.

Scott Galloway 32:23 I agree.

Kara Swisher 32:23 Fyi.

Scott Galloway 32:23 I don't think so either.

Kara Swisher 32:24 Come on.

Scott Galloway 32:25 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 32:25 Like, it's mostly you, like, yelling at me, really. That's what [chuckles] happens, people.

Scott Galloway 32:30 Oh, yeah! [chuckles]

Kara Swisher 32:31 Anyway. [chuckles]

Scott Galloway 32:31 Me yelling at you.

Kara Swisher 32:32 No, no.

Scott Galloway 32:32 I think you got the pro- I think you got your pronouns off there, or whatever we're calling.

Kara Swisher 32:36 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 32:36 Me yelling at you.

Kara Swisher 32:37 You put whatever picture you want-

Scott Galloway 32:39 Who texts the other -

Kara Swisher 32:39 on the back

Scott Galloway 32:40 ... at 2:00 a.m., "You need to apologize-

Kara Swisher 32:42 So you can make a story

Scott Galloway 32:43 ... to so and so?"

Kara Swisher 32:43 No, no, no.

Scott Galloway 32:43 And Cheryl sand-

Kara Swisher 32:44 You know what?

Scott Galloway 32:44 You're being unfair to Cheryl Sandberg.

Kara Swisher 32:46 Well, you know what? We had a lovely-

Scott Galloway 32:48 Oh, my God

Kara Swisher 32:48 ... chat l- last night, Scott and I did. Just so you know, we did.

Scott Galloway 32:51 We talked-- We spoke last night?

Kara Swisher 32:52 We... Two, two nights ago. Last night, two nights. Anyway, we had a lovely time.

Scott Galloway 32:55 God, the edibles are kicking in.

Kara Swisher 32:56 No, I went out last night with my lovely wife. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Alphabet earnings, really interesting. [music]

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Kara Swisher 34:09 [music]

Kara Swisher 34:12 Scott, we're back. On to some earnings. Alphabet beat earnings and revenue expectations, with a net income up almost thirty percent from the year prior. Well done, Sundar Pichai. Uh, the company expects twenty twenty-six CapEx spend to be, oh, this is incredible, one hundred and seventy-five, and, uh, uh, a hundred and sixty-five and a hundred and seventy-five billion, which could be more than double twenty twenty-five spending, and obviously, all in AI. Shares are down five percent in the last, uh, couple days, 'cause at the time of the taping. Very briefly, what do you think of these Alphabet earnings? 'Cause you've been focused on, on the Google, the owner of Google.

Scott Galloway 34:44 Uh, Alphabet was my stock pick for twenty twenty-five. The, the-- This is nothing short of staggering. Um, annual revenue's, uh, at four hundred billion right now, YouTube revenue up nine percent, Google Cloud up forty-eight percent, Kara. Oh, and by the way, OpenAI was supposedly gonna kill Google Search.

Kara Swisher 35:02 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 35:02 Search is up seventeen percent.

Kara Swisher 35:04 Didn't happen.

Scott Galloway 35:04 Google services revenue up-

Kara Swisher 35:05 They moved fast

Scott Galloway 35:06 ... fourteen percent.

Kara Swisher 35:07 They finally moved fast.

Scott Galloway 35:08 The market was a little spooked by their CapEx expenditure.

Kara Swisher 35:10 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 35:10 In this case, it's a feature, not a bug, 'cause they have the money to do it.

Kara Swisher 35:13 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 35:14 And you want to talk about a comeback story for the ages? Back in twenty twenty-two, the market decided that Search had an existential threat with ChatGPT, and the stock was off forty percent. And guess where, guess where the stock is now, since it hit that low? It's up fourfold. And since the quarter that ChatGPT was released, Google Search revenues are up forty-eight percent. They get about ninety to ninety-five times the number of queries as ChatGPT. And the thing I took away from this, these earnings, were two things: one, staggering, and two, I think OpenAI is fucked. They're getting attacked from the side by Anthropic with incredible positioning, highlighting their, their soft tissue around advertising. They're getting attacked from above by Alphabet, which has more, probably, IP and a fire hose of two billion people a day to point at their own AI platforms. And they're getting attacked from below by these open weight LLMs out of China. I, I saw this, and I'm like, "Jesus Christ, this company is on fire and well-managed!" And then I thought-... There is no y-- I think we have seen the peak of OpenAI's valuation. They're supposedly raising money at eight fifty. I think that'll be the high-water mark.

Kara Swisher 36:25 All right.

Kara Swisher 36:26 Oh, well, interesting. Are now on to Disney. The company topped earnings and revenue expectations with experience department reporting over ten billion dollars in quarterly revenue for the first time. That's the parks. Overall revenue for the entertainment segment of the company was up seven percent year over year. Not bad. He made another big announcement, uh, the CEO, Bob Iger. Josh D'Amaro will replace him. He has been at Disney for twenty-eight years and most recently served as chairman of Disney Experiences, which makes up roughly sixty percent of the profit last year. The company also promoted top television executive Da- Dana Walden to president and chief creative officer, and the-- I mean, she gets the, um, consolation prize, I guess. Once again, Scott, uh, Kara was right. Let's listen to who I predicted Disney would choose in the October of twenty twenty-four. [whooshing] Um, any idea who's, who's gonna be the next, uh, Bob Iger? Probably be someone internally. Prob-- I'm guessing either Josh or, uh, Dana Walden. One of those two. It just seemed like it's hard to run a company like Disney if you haven't been there a hundred and three years. Um, so, uh, we asked our friend and founding partner, Puck, Bill Cullen, for his thoughts on the transition. Let's just quickly listen to him, what he had to say. [whooshing]

Speaker 37:32 In many ways, it was the inevitable choice. Uh, in some ways, it was the most ironic choice. Uh, I say the ironic choice because, of course, uh, Bob Chapek, uh, ran the parks and events, uh, division of Disney when Bob Iger selected him to be his first successor, and we all know that that did not work out, uh, at all. And now he's got, uh, D'Amaro as his, uh, successor, uh, also from the parks division. And I say the inevitable choice because, look, let's face it, that's the division that's been hitting it, uh, out of the ballpark, uh, for the last few years. He's been monetizing, uh, the Disney IP, uh, beautifully. They were also very smart in keeping, uh, the people a-around, uh, at, uh, Disney, uh, who, uh, have the skills that he doesn't have, uh, including Dana Walden, promoting her, Alan Bergman, Jimmy Pitaro, uh, running ESPN. So he's got a good cast around him. If D'Amaro can keep up, uh, what he's done at, uh, in, in the parks department and, uh, increase the Disney stock price, which of course, is what everybody wants him to do because it's floundered for the last couple of years, uh, he'll be a success. If, if, uh, he can't do those things, then it's a big question mark still. Uh, he may go the way of Bob Chapek.

Kara Swisher 39:01 Uh, it's Chapek, actually. But, uh, what-- this is really interesting. I thought that was really smart. I mean, it, it, it's still... You-- Scott and I both think this company's gonna get bought for some reason. [chuckles] Just right? Correct? Are we still on that train?

Scott Galloway 39:13 If it, if it doesn't get, if it doesn't get bought, it's inviting an activist. They'll give the new CEO a twenty-four-month honeymoon period, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone is aggregating stock right now because if you look at the ten-year returns of the S&P, it's almost quadrupled. Disney, it's flat. And Bob Iger is the guy who decided after a successful tour of Vietnam to go back and basically has had his legs blown off. I mean, the, the one of the worst decisions in history, in corporate history, personally, was for Bob Iger to decide to shoot his successor and come back in like he was MacArthur. He wasn't. He-- anyways, um, this company will have an overhang on it until they do the following: I- it-- There should be good bank, bad bank. It should be, if you will, it should be, um, the streaming service, the studio, and the parks. They feed each other IP. There's synergy, and there's flywheels, and then they've got to get rid of, um, ESPN, A- ABC, cable networks, FX, Freeform, Disney Channel, Nat Geo, because these things are just an anchor, and the linear businesses... A- and the linear businesses are just awful, but the experiences, the parks and cruises and streaming are growing and getting profitable. And when you have a conglomerate like this, what the market does is they find the shittiest business, which is the linear business, and they assign that multiple to the entire company. So Disney is probably, in my view, is one of the few values or good buys out there right now because it has unmatched IP. The parks business, assuming that the tariffs are reversed and people start coming back to the US at some point, uh, is, uh, is singular. I don't care what anyone think. If you don't take your kids and spend fourteen hundred dollars a night in a shitty hotel three or four times before the age of ten, they call child services on you.

Kara Swisher 41:02 Yep. [chuckles]

Scott Galloway 41:02 They have a monopoly on children.

Kara Swisher 41:04 Not just that, not just that. It's toys-

Scott Galloway 41:06 Frozen. Dis-- You have to have Disney Plus.

Kara Swisher 41:08 They still haven't been like, you know, like... I don't think they-- they don't have Cocomelon. I think that's over at Netflix. They, they still haven't caught on to some trends. That's my worry for them, is they've got a lot of old trends, right? A lot of old stuff. Like, uh, K-pop Demon Hunters, for example, that was Netflix again. Like, a- and some of the other ones that are very popular with kids, the, the more cutting-edge ones, they don't seem to be on top of them. So I would imagine that, uh, Dana, and there has to really focus on that. Like, what is hot? Like, they, they, they have the traditionals and Frozen two, and, uh, I mean, three and four coming out, which, of course, we have to see, and then we'll have all the things. Um, but, you know, they've missed a lot of turns on the newest kind of v- viral phenomenas that are very lasting, too, right? And so that would be my thing, and b- but content isn't the point. It's the parks, it's the streaming, it's the IP, and what do you do with that? And so to me, they have to really, um, understand, maybe have a little more of a range in IP or something like that, like as if- as they're doing over at Netflix and other places. Just they could be a little more innovative, but you're right, it has to be spun off. Let Jimmy Pitaro run all of those. I've known him for a long time from Yahoo! and very smart executive.

Scott Galloway 42:20 Their, their experiences division in Q1-

Kara Swisher 42:22 Mm

Scott Galloway 42:22 ... reported three times the operating income as the entertainment division.

Kara Swisher 42:26 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 42:26 The entertainment division, the crown jewel there, the streaming services are actually getting some leverage. Their operating income was up seventy-two percent. So if you have this unbelievable singular business with enormous moats, called the experiences division-... and you have the studios which create IP for your streaming services, which is getting momentum. And right now, you know, Netflix is Walmart, and Disney is LVMH, in the sense that Disney has a singular positioning around family that will be very strong for a long time and command margin. Those two growth companies together, and then you shed the problem child, the linear networks, this company immediately, they could- I, I said this last year, I think they could sell, and they won't do this, ESPN, ABC, Entertainment, Global Networks, FX, all that shit, Nat Geo, I think they could sell it for a dollar, and the company would be worth more in six months-

Kara Swisher 43:13 [chuckles] That's interesting.

Scott Galloway 43:14 -because it's an enormous overhang on them.

Kara Swisher 43:17 It is, even though it makes a lot of profit, yeah.

Scott Galloway 43:18 Every analyst, every analyst report says the following: "Good, good, great, good," but there's always a but, and that is these huge cable companies... And by the way, that company, that Babec-

Kara Swisher 43:32 Why hasn't Iger just done it before he leaves? You know, done it.

Scott Galloway 43:34 I think he wanted a bigger number. He put a for sale sign on these things twenty-four months ago.

Kara Swisher 43:38 He did, yeah.

Scott Galloway 43:39 But private equity, and there's a c- a- and now it's like whatever the one is from Conca- Comcast, someone is gonna consolidate these things.

Kara Swisher 43:45 Yeah, Comcast.

Scott Galloway 43:46 And by the way, that'll probably be a good stock, 'cause someone will come in-

Kara Swisher 43:49 Yeah

Scott Galloway 43:49 ... and start cutting costs faster than revenue declines, and people usually overestimate the speed of revenue declines. That'll be a good business. It'll be a totally different business.

Kara Swisher 43:59 There, there's gonna be a lot of activity because, look, if Paramount doesn't get, uh, doesn't get Warner, that's gonna be someone on the lookout. You've got Comcast sort of waiting in the wings. I went to an Olympic party last night. Boy, they have a great month coming up. They've got the Super Bowl, they've got the Olympics, and they've got the NBA, something or other. Uh, they're calling it legendary February. Um, uh, you know, they've got to do something, so there's gonna be a lot of activity here. And you're right, the spin-off of ABC provides an opportunity for any of these players, uh, going forward. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, uh, we're gonna talk about the Washington Post layoffs,

Kara Swisher 44:33 and I'm gonna get some advice from Scott Galloway. Scott, we're back with more news. The Washington Post has laid off about thirty percent of its employees. The cuts impact both business and newsroom roles, including over three hundred of roughly eight hundred journalists. I- interestingly, I looked at old memos. Uh, Bezos had added up to a thousand. He really grew it, and now he's ungrowing it. Um, in all sections, the company had been impacted with a focus on sports, local news, and international coverage. Executive editor Matt Murray told the staff the company had lost too much money for too long and will now be focused on national news and politics, business, and health. Uh, maybe they can hire Peter or Tia. Um, I want you not to say people are precious right now. I wanna talk about this 'cause I've gotten dozens of- you know, I had been interested in looking at figuring out a way to buy it. Um, I've gotten lots of calls this week from both employees, very wealthy people, people who are civically minded here in Washington, rich people. Um, what do you think's gonna happen here? I mean, let me just very briefly, since I worked there, again, I started in the mailroom. The way they did this, Bezos hasn't said a word. The CEO didn't talk to any employees, hasn't been seen since they did this. They, they handed the bag to Matt Murray to deal with it, um, which to me was just cowardly. Um, you know, I put on threads, uh, Bezos has twice the muscle, and he's half the man from when I met him. Um, but, a- a- and that was a personal insult. I meant it in a really very significant way. Um, uh, uh, what do you do with this? What do you do, and what do I- when I get all these calls, like, I'm doing great with the podcast, although apparently you're leaving me. Um, and-

Scott Galloway 46:06 No, I'm not. I'm just banging Belarusian whores.

Kara Swisher 46:08 Um, okay. It's fine. Uh, I don't care.

Scott Galloway 46:10 Consensual.

Kara Swisher 46:11 But, you know, I just co- cool on everything-

Scott Galloway 46:13 By the way, who w- w- who would have thought Hunter Biden would come across as so wholesome?

Kara Swisher 46:16 [chuckles]

Scott Galloway 46:16 All these prostitutes are on TikTok saying he was respectful. He likes-

Kara Swisher 46:20 I can see it.

Scott Galloway 46:21 They're all like, they're all like, "He likes crack and having sex with grown women"-

Kara Swisher 46:25 Yes.

Scott Galloway 46:25 - "and he looks wholesome right now."

Kara Swisher 46:27 [chuckles] He does.

Scott Galloway 46:27 He's not in the Epstein files.

Kara Swisher 46:28 Not surprising.

Scott Galloway 46:28 He's nowhere in the Epstein files.

Kara Swisher 46:30 I have to say, yeah, I agree. Someone-

Scott Galloway 46:31 He looks like Richard Thomas from The Waltons right now.

Kara Swisher 46:35 Who else did I talk to?

Scott Galloway 46:35 I'm sorry, go ahead.

Kara Swisher 46:35 Maybe Gavin Newsom. I'm like: How did you not get me out? Anyway, um, uh, tell, tell me what to do here. Tell me what you think. Obviously, let me just tell you, thanks, Jeff. Really, the economics have changed. Everybody knows this. Stop lecturing us on things they know. They definitely had to cut costs. If I took it over, I, I'd cut costs, not in this nasty, prickish way while I'm appearing with Pete Hegseth, uh, looking like I've had way too much Botox. But, uh, and I would say something to them if I was doing this, given how rich I am, and I certainly could afford it. I don't mean to say he has to lose money, but boy, the look is so bad. It's such a bad look, him swanning around Paris while he's done this, and then not even speaking to them. The whole thing just stinks, the way he handled this, of really good people who will find, who will find jobs at some point, and but it's a lot of people in the market all at once. So what to do here without insulting [chuckles] journalism? Go ahead.

Scott Galloway 47:31 Okay, so this is Kara Swisher calling me at eleven pm or midnight, asking my advice around the Washington Post, and if and how you should get involved. Is that accurate?

Kara Swisher 47:39 Yes, correct.

Scott Galloway 47:40 Okay, first thing I say is, "Hold on a second. I gotta take my dogs out to pee 'cause I just took edibles, and I'll forget, and if they pee on the stone, I'm, I'm gonna be in a world of hurt."

Kara Swisher 47:49 [chuckles]

Scott Galloway 47:49 That's the first thing I say.

Kara Swisher 47:50 All right, so now you're back.

Scott Galloway 47:50 I take the dogs on a walk, and I think about it.

Kara Swisher 47:52 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 47:52 This is what I would say to you: Don't touch this thing with a fucking ten-foot pole.

Kara Swisher 47:55 All right.

Scott Galloway 47:55 'Cause here's the bottom line.

Kara Swisher 47:57 Okay.

Scott Galloway 47:58 First off, Jeff Bezos has made a terrible personal brand error by not doing the following. He should have said, "I have incredible reverence for, uh, journalism, for free speech. I bought this because I think it plays an important role in our society. It has come to my attention, or I have decided I'm just not the right owner," and he should have sold it to Bloomberg or some other billionaire-

Kara Swisher 48:20 Long ago

Scott Galloway 48:20 ... two years ago, and they would-

Kara Swisher 48:21 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 48:21 ... have had a going-away party for him, and he should have wrapped himself in, uh, the importance of great journalism. And there are-- What's so sad right now about the Washington Post is from, I would call it, kind of twenty eighteen to twenty twenty-... three, they were on an upslope. I started reading The Washington Post. I subscribed to it for its business news.

Kara Swisher 48:42 Mm.

Scott Galloway 48:43 I thought they did a really good job of business coverage.

Kara Swisher 48:45 Yep.

Scott Galloway 48:45 Talented journalists-

Kara Swisher 48:47 Mm.

Scott Galloway 48:47 An important-

Kara Swisher 48:47 Good stories.

Scott Galloway 48:49 Yeah, an important American asset, and he should have gone out. Instead, he looks like someone who is purposefully trying to disassemble it limb by limb. Now, the reason you should not get near this, Kara, is 'cause if you were worth ten billion and willing to allocate two or three billion over the next ten or twenty years, I'd say have at it.

Kara Swisher 49:10 For the good of society, yeah.

Scott Galloway 49:12 Have at it, it's philanthropy, because here's the bottom line: in an era of social media, where two-thirds of news is now garnered off of social media, where they don't have to pay for content, long-form, thoughtful, fact-checked, investigative journalism is a shitty business. And also, let me be clear, the few newsrooms I have been in, and I've been in some important ones, there's a general expectance and entitlement that, "Oh, you're some rich person, and you're funding my very important civic duty," and I find there's a lack of recognition of the fact this is a private company that needs to figure out a way to make money.

Kara Swisher 49:50 I think that's been starched out of them, but go ahead. I agree with you.

Scott Galloway 49:53 I, I still think they find themselves especially precious, and that billionaires owe them a living.

Kara Swisher 49:58 Well-

Scott Galloway 49:58 And there may be-

Kara Swisher 49:59 I don't think that

Scott Galloway 49:59 ... there may be, there may be billionaires who see an opportunity here to-- If you could find a billionaire backer who said, "This is so important, and there are amazing journalists. It's an important asset. We have fewer and fewer of these assets that actually do the work and people trust. This plays an important role in society." I'm hoping that someone pops up and says, "I'm putting together a, an advisory board of 12 amazing journalists, business people, that will be the oversight board. Other than writing a check for two hundred million dollars to subsidize this thing every year, I'm not going to be involved because I see the importance." The same way someone writes a one or two hundred million dollar check to their favorite, you know, to PETA or to, or to, uh, you know, Planned Parenthood or to whatever it might be, PB-- what- whatever they're philan-- the NAACP. This has become a philanthropy, and I say that in the best of terms, and that is it has a social good. But as a capitalist endeavor, this shit just doesn't make any sense. Unfortunately, if you got involved, without, without having billions of dollars to throw at the problem, y- you would just get-- you would get all of the frustration with none of the credit or the appreciation, regardless of your skills in journalism. So unless you're willing to partner, unless you can find a billionaire who says, "Okay, I'm going to take your guidance around an advisory board. We're gonna run this thoughtfully. We are going to impose some discipline on it, but we're willing to lose a hundred to two million, hun- hundred million a year," it's just gonna be good money after bad and more frustration.

Kara Swisher 51:34 But could-- There's no restructuring of this from your perspective? I mean, it doesn't have to be what it is, right? You and I have both started businesses and quite successful ones, um-

Scott Galloway 51:43 Unless you're gonna milk it, there's no business here.

Kara Swisher 51:45 No.

Scott Galloway 51:45 There's no ca- there's no for-profit business here.

Kara Swisher 51:47 Right.

Scott Galloway 51:48 This shit's expensive.

Kara Swisher 51:48 But that's what I'm saying. What else could you imagine it being?

Scott Galloway 51:52 I think The Washington Post-

Kara Swisher 51:53 A founder. Look at, what's the one in the London that you, where you live? The Guardian, right? Don't they have a-

Scott Galloway 51:57 Right.

Kara Swisher 51:58 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 51:58 I, I think in order to get profits, you have to engage in rage baiting and A/B testing and a lack of fact-checking and not... Uh, uh, The New York Times has done everything right in my view, [chuckles] in terms of i- investing early in innovation and technology, and it's still a small, shitty business.

Kara Swisher 52:15 Mm.

Scott Galloway 52:15 OnlyFans will do more revenue than New York Times this year.

Kara Swisher 52:18 Absolutely.

Scott Galloway 52:19 So what do you do? I, I, y- of course, you invest in digital. Of course, you have more subscription programs, but the, the, the only business strategy here is the following: You have to find a deep-pocketed billionaire who says, "This is such an important asset. It has such positive externalities for our society, that it's worth me cutting a check for a hundred to two hundred million a year."

Kara Swisher 52:42 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 52:42 But the notion that someone's gonna come in and reinvent The Washington Post with new subscriptions-

Kara Swisher 52:46 Oh, I don't think that

Scott Galloway 52:46 ... and new ideas, no, it's not gonna happen.

Kara Swisher 52:48 I don't think that. Let me tell you, I think there is-- But I agree with you. It's not a big m- and you're right, The New York Times is incredibly successful and is a very small business. I wouldn't say it's a shitty business. It's a small business, right? It's not- Sorry, Meredith, but it is. [chuckles] It's small, but, but she's done a great job with her small business, and profitable.

Scott Galloway 53:04 Unbelievable.

Kara Swisher 53:05 And, and it's profitable, which is great. I wonder if you could do that here and have a similar juxtaposition, 'cause the Post has always been the sort of the Jan to Marsha [chuckles] at The New York Times, right? But I like Jan.

Scott Galloway 53:18 Pretty distant second.

Kara Swisher 53:20 I know, it is.

Scott Galloway 53:20 Pretty distant second.

Kara Swisher 53:21 It is, and, of course, the Journal is in there, too, and that's gonna undergo something when Rupert goes. You know, there's-- that's gonna change. Um, but, but it's a really interesting-- To me, I know it's emotional. I know you know you think it's emotional, but I always think, like, if I was handed CBS, I'm like: I don't know what to do here. Like, I wouldn't-- The Post, I'm like: Well, what if we tried it? Like, it feels like there is some opportunity here, and I don't mean to make a lot of money. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about making something that is sustainable, useful, profitable enough, right? So that... And, and, and serves enormous, profitable in terms of society, right, in helping society, and helping really good journalists do what they do best and get, get out of their way. That's my feel. That's how I feel about it. But you're right, it's a, it's-- I, I was saying to someone this morning, Barry-

Scott Galloway 54:11 There is no way you can maintain the quality of journalism and the fact-checking and the investigative reporting unless you have someone who recognizes the public good outweighs the profit motive here.

Kara Swisher 54:23 Yep, I agree. I agree.

Scott Galloway 54:23 And we keep, we keep finding new people who think that they can have both, and the reality is, if you wanna give people bodily autonomy and have Planned Parenthood in Mississippi, you're gonna lose money. [chuckles]

Kara Swisher 54:34 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 54:34 I mean-

Kara Swisher 54:34 Yeah, yeah.

Scott Galloway 54:35 ... this is a public good.

Kara Swisher 54:37 Yeah, yeah.

Scott Galloway 54:37 It plays an important role, and I pray-- I can't, for the life of me, figure out why Bezos-

Kara Swisher 54:43 Why he did that

Scott Galloway 54:44 ... didn't find a-... This is the bottom line, Republican billionaires buy football teams-

Kara Swisher 54:48 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 54:48 Democratic billionaires buy media companies.

Kara Swisher 54:50 Except now-

Scott Galloway 54:50 What I don't get is-

Kara Swisher 54:51 He turned into whatever he turned into.

Scott Galloway 54:53 Why didn't he call Michael Bloomberg-

Kara Swisher 54:55 Bloomberg wanted it

Scott Galloway 54:55 ... and say, "Michael, you already have a newsroom"-

Kara Swisher 54:57 Could have handled it

Scott Galloway 54:57 ..."Take this off my hands for a dollar."

Kara Swisher 55:00 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 55:00 And Bloomberg, whatever you think of Michael Bloomberg, he's a hero of mine.

Kara Swisher 55:03 Yeah, I, I like him.

Scott Galloway 55:04 I think he cares about dem-

Kara Swisher 55:05 I like him.

Scott Galloway 55:05 I think he cares about democracy. He tries to hit it down the middle. I think he would do a great job with The Post.

Kara Swisher 55:10 And he's not so insecure as Jeff Bezos, and so-

Scott Galloway 55:12 And at some point, one of these, one of these 30- or 40-something crypto or tech billionaires is gonna pop up. Uh, Matthew Prince from Cloudflare, just pulled out of my ass, he strikes me as a really thoughtful guy, a really nice man. I'm like, "Is your legacy gonna be a, a cloud-based company, or is it gonna be maybe saying, 'Journalism is important. I'm gonna take a billion dollars, and over the next decade, I'm gonna make sure that The Washington Post continues to have..."' You know-

Kara Swisher 55:40 Or maybe, maybe a lot-

Scott Galloway 55:42 No fear-

Kara Swisher 55:42 ... of these people. Maybe more-

Scott Galloway 55:42 No fear, no favor around-

Kara Swisher 55:44 Right

Scott Galloway 55:44 ... DC politics, or it's a consortium of them. But it, but-

Kara Swisher 55:48 Consortium-

Scott Galloway 55:48 ... the first meeting has to be-

Kara Swisher 55:49 I was gonna-

Scott Galloway 55:50 The first meeting has to be-

Kara Swisher 55:51 Let's be honest

Scott Galloway 55:51 ..."Stop the fucking consensual hallucination. We're gonna lose $100 million a year."

Kara Swisher 55:55 Yep, I agree. I agree. And on a personal level, I have to say, when I was talking to someone this morning, we're very much alike. I was like, "You know, I'm making a ton of money, and I get to do what I want, and it's easy." It's not easy; it's just pleasurable.

Scott Galloway 56:07 Oh, Kara, if, I'm telling you, if I were advising you personally, I'd be like, "Don't get fucking near this. Look at your life right now. You're having an impact. You're making a shit ton of money. You got young kids at home, and you want to be up late at night talking to the editor of something, saying why he's pissed off at you because you went from 11 people to nine? You don't need this shit at this point in your life."

Kara Swisher 56:24 [chuckles] Anyway, I d- I do would say, let me just tell you, the P- please give to their guild. They got laid off. These are people who've done an amazing public service, and I gave a, a substantive amount of money for me, um, to them.

Scott Galloway 56:36 Well, I'm sorry. I, I, I'm gonna piss off everyone.

Kara Swisher 56:38 What?

Scott Galloway 56:38 Why are we giving money to people laid off at The Post?

Kara Swisher 56:40 I do that with lots of layoffs, my friend. You don't know that. I do.

Scott Galloway 56:42 Did you do it with the 12,000 people laid off at Amazon last week?

Kara Swisher 56:46 Uh, there, if there's a fund, I'd be happy to give to it. Absolutely. I do. I do. I'm sorry, I do that a lot. [chuckles] You don't know that. It's a quiet little thing I do. Um, anyway, I will. If there's one, a fund for Amazon, please let me know, and I will be happy to give to it. Um-

Scott Galloway 56:59 No, you won't.

Kara Swisher 57:00 I will.

Scott Galloway 57:00 You're not gonna give money-

Kara Swisher 57:01 You're wrong, you're wrong

Scott Galloway 57:02 ... to people laid off at Amazon corporate.

Kara Swisher 57:02 Just because you're a greedy fuck doesn't mean I am. I give a lot more money away than you think.

Scott Galloway 57:05 You really think "greedy fuck" is the right descriptor of me?

Kara Swisher 57:07 I don't think that. I think you give a... I think you're very generous. I'm just-

Scott Galloway 57:10 Anyways, I, I don't... I, I would, I would like to know what the severance is. I'll give you an example. The, this cupcake thing called Sprinkles, the, the female co-founder came on and said, "This is not what my legacy wanted to be." She sold to private equity, and she gave people one day's notice-

Kara Swisher 57:25 I know

Scott Galloway 57:25 ... when they all got fired.

Kara Swisher 57:26 I know.

Scott Galloway 57:26 Those people should be publicly shamed like crazy.

Kara Swisher 57:29 Yes, yeah.

Scott Galloway 57:29 I would like to know what the severance is for these 300 people, but-

Kara Swisher 57:32 Well, see-

Scott Galloway 57:32 ... there are massive layoffs everywhere.

Kara Swisher 57:34 I agree.

Scott Galloway 57:35 And also, those people-

Kara Swisher 57:36 But again, you're stack ranking

Scott Galloway 57:37 ... Those people-

Kara Swisher 57:37 You don't have to stack rank.

Scott Galloway 57:38 Those people-

Kara Swisher 57:39 Go ahead

Scott Galloway 57:39 ... who are being laid off, I... This is gonna sound weird. In some ways, they're, they're gonna be better off. The Washington Post gets very talented people. In an effort to reduce costs, they have hired- they've gone younger and younger because younger people are willing to be underpaid. You're gonna see so many new Substacks.

Kara Swisher 57:56 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 57:56 You're gonna see so many little... Puck is gonna hire a bunch of these people. You're probably gonna hire one or two of these people.

Kara Swisher 58:03 Maybe, yeah.

Scott Galloway 58:04 These people are gonna go on to greener pastures, as opposed to being subject to the whims of a billionaire who wakes up and thinks-

Kara Swisher 58:10 True

Scott Galloway 58:11 ... "Oh, I don't, I, I don't know how I feel about The Post. Lay off 300 people-

Kara Swisher 58:15 Yeah

Scott Galloway 58:15 ... and keep my distance from it."

Kara Swisher 58:17 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 58:17 But what the fuck is he thinking, not finding someone else to take it off his hands?

Kara Swisher 58:20 I know, I know.

Scott Galloway 58:21 I don't get it.

Kara Swisher 58:21 And let me just-

Scott Galloway 58:22 I just don't get it.

Kara Swisher 58:22 Let me say, a lot of the decline recently, I mean, it's definitely a secular problem, has been directly because of his stupid-ass decisions. There, there was one after the next. So a lot of these problems were because of the way he's been managing this, and his CEO, let me just say, Will Lewis, you should be ashamed of yourself, of how you've behaved and all your idiotic ideas.

Scott Galloway 58:41 We have a bunch of producers at-

Kara Swisher 58:43 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 58:43 ... our different podcasts. I don't know if you can see, I have some of them behind me, Kara.

Kara Swisher 58:46 I know that, yeah.

Scott Galloway 58:46 But-

Kara Swisher 58:47 Yeah

Scott Galloway 58:47 ... I, I called, I sent a message to the woman who runs our company and said-

Kara Swisher 58:52 Mm

Scott Galloway 58:52 ... "We should be reaching out to some people at The Post."

Kara Swisher 58:54 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 58:54 "Find people that we lo-"

Kara Swisher 58:55 Yep.

Scott Galloway 58:55 The Post right now is literally a recruiter's dream.

Kara Swisher 58:59 Yep, it is.

Scott Galloway 58:59 Everyone at The Post, even the ones that, the, the, the ones that didn't get laid off, will return your call right now.

Kara Swisher 59:04 Yep, that's true.

Scott Galloway 59:04 And these are very... I don't, quite frank, I, I, I feel sorry from the sense that this was their dream job. These people are gonna be just fine.

Kara Swisher 59:12 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 59:12 These, these are very talented people.

Kara Swisher 59:14 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 59:14 So I don't-

Kara Swisher 59:15 No, I-

Scott Galloway 59:16 I think part of capitalism is-

Kara Swisher 59:17 I get it

Scott Galloway 59:18 ... you know, if you make, if you make it easy to fire people, you make it easy to hire them.

Kara Swisher 59:22 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 59:22 I think, I would bet 95% of these people in two years look back on this and go, "Yeah, I miss it."

Kara Swisher 59:28 Yeah, a lot of them did.

Scott Galloway 59:28 "It was great training, and I'm making more money and having more impact and more relevance now."

Kara Swisher 59:33 More fun. Yeah, it's true.

Scott Galloway 59:34 And I don't-

Kara Swisher 59:34 Well-

Scott Galloway 59:34 ... have to wake up and hear what a guy in, partying in St. Barts thinks about layoffs.

Kara Swisher 59:39 [chuckles]

Scott Galloway 59:39 I don't-

Kara Swisher 59:40 It's true. It's true, J- but in any case, Jeff, you're such an asshole. Anyway, uh, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. [whooshing sound] Okay, Scott, let's, uh, hear a prediction.

Kara Swisher 59:51 Um, I, I'm going to, um, take a moment, though, uh, before you do that, uh, to say, uh, Savannah Guthrie's family, uh, with their mom missing, I know... I've met her mom. She's amazing. I, I hope, hope, hope they find her alive, and it's so sad what's happening. It's getting far too much, like, m- media is sort of jumping all over it in kind of an untoward way, but if that helps get her back, I'm all for it. Um, but I just wanna send my love out to her family. She, she- they're wonderful people.

Scott Galloway 1:00:25 It's really interesting, isn't it, how some stories really kind of... I mean, 35,000 people have supposedly been murdered in Iran.

Kara Swisher 1:00:33 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:00:34 And the, but this story really hits you because, A, people really, really appreciate and have a lot of fondness for Savannah.

Kara Swisher 1:00:41 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:00:41 ... But occasionally there's a story, and it just, it grabs you, right?

Kara Swisher 1:00:44 It does, yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:00:44 I mean, this story, this story has really grabbed people-

Kara Swisher 1:00:47 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 1:00:47 ... because this is kind of everyone's nightmare-

Kara Swisher 1:00:50 Nightmare

Scott Galloway 1:00:50 ... not knowing what's happening, not knowing what's going on.

Kara Swisher 1:00:53 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:00:54 But I, I was really struck at how, and it, it's nice that occasionally people slow down, and when they hear an individual story, it really moves them.

Kara Swisher 1:01:02 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:01:02 And I think, actually, I think the attention being brought to it is probably a good thing.

Kara Swisher 1:01:05 Probably is.

Scott Galloway 1:01:05 I think there's a lot-

Kara Swisher 1:01:06 Probably is.

Scott Galloway 1:01:06 If anyone sees her mom, they're gonna know it.

Kara Swisher 1:01:08 That's right.

Scott Galloway 1:01:09 Right?

Kara Swisher 1:01:09 That's right.

Scott Galloway 1:01:09 And so I think it's... Anyways, I, I, I-

Kara Swisher 1:01:12 There's a surprising not big number of kidnappings, too, like, in this country.

Scott Galloway 1:01:16 It's very rare.

Kara Swisher 1:01:17 Yeah, so-

Scott Galloway 1:01:18 We all talk about the fear of kids and kidnapping.

Kara Swisher 1:01:20 It's all over TV, but it's not true.

Scott Galloway 1:01:22 It's, it's, it's very, it's very, very rare.

Kara Swisher 1:01:26 Right.

Scott Galloway 1:01:27 Anyway.

Kara Swisher 1:01:27 All right, let's hear a prediction

Kara Swisher 1:01:28 from you.

Scott Galloway 1:01:29 Uh, effectively, I don't know if this is really good news, but essentially, um, there are social media bans breaking out all over the world. Norway has a complete ban under 13. Belgium requires children under 13 to have parental permission. Germany requires parental consent for users aged 13 to 16. Italy requires parental consent at sign-up for users under the age of 14. And Spain just announced that it's going to, um, it, uh, it's the latest country. They're banning social media kids under 16. Eighty-two percent of Spaniards support banning social media for kids under 14. Greece is also nearing a social media ban for children under 15. Australia's implemented a similar ban. Also, just a shout-out to my colleague, Jonathan Haidt. I think this would've happened anyway, but he's expedited it, and I think he deserves a lot of credit for this. Um, I mean, if you-- for those of you thinking about going to academia, you can go into academia, study social science, get a PhD in psychology, and someday get entire nations to ban phones in schools. So to think that academics don't matter, it's-- you can have a lot of impact. Anyways, that's not my prediction. Um, my prediction is that this is essentially not only common sense around our children, but this is the beginning of reciprocal tariffs. What do I mean by that? Other nations are sick of the sclerotic, irrational, punitive economic warfare that the Trump administration has levied on them with tariffs, and their tariffs are the following: They're gonna start banning our social media platforms. Uh, the UK is already going after X. You are gonna start to see, over the course of the next twelve to twenty-four months, entire nations say, "You know what? Maybe we don't need YouTube here. Maybe Meta should not be here. Maybe..." And they'll, they'll blanket it in-

Kara Swisher 1:03:17 Maybe we won't use Zoom. I think France is stopping using Zoom in the government.

Scott Galloway 1:03:20 They're gonna blanket in, "Okay, Meta is bad for children," which is true, but the real motivation, [chuckles] in my view, is gonna be like, "You know what? We're kinda sick. If you're gonna start making it harder for Americans to buy our Mercedes and our Vuitton, we're gonna make it harder for people to watch YouTube and be on Instagram." I think European nations and the rest of the G7 are sick of big tech coming in, sucking billions of dollars out of their economy in exchange for opening a Facebook office in Milan. Their newspapers are going out of business, their media companies are going out of business, their manufacturers are going out of business, and this is essentially the thing that is tipping these companies over and giving them the backbone to start banning these things, and it's gonna go up the food chain. Pretty soon, you're going to see a large nation say, "You know what? I don't think we need Google." So this is, while it's being done under the very righteous and worthwhile cause of protecting children, which I celebrate and I think is important, effectively what this is, is a reciprocal tariff, and pretty soon it's gonna start creeping up. You know what's gonna happen? Big countries are gonna decide: "You know what? We no longer want to use Goldman Sachs and McKinsey to do our banking. If you're gonna start fucking with us, we're gonna start fucking with you."

Kara Swisher 1:04:36 And they say that, speaking of consumers, they're consumers, so they can speak with their... They can walk, they can walk. That's the thing.

Scott Galloway 1:04:41 I love the idea-

Kara Swisher 1:04:42 And there, there are alternatives

Scott Galloway 1:04:42 ... of consumers speaking with their, with their spending power. [chuckles]

Kara Swisher 1:04:45 Yeah, yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:04:45 I think it makes all the sense in the world.

Kara Swisher 1:04:46 I know you do. That's why you look like a, like a unsuccessful pimp this week. What's your outfit for next week? [chuckles]

Scott Galloway 1:04:52 I don't know. I'm thinking, I bought-

Kara Swisher 1:04:53 Do it to a charm.

Scott Galloway 1:04:54 I'll, I'll give you a hint. I'll, I'll give you a hint.

Kara Swisher 1:04:56 Okay.

Scott Galloway 1:04:56 I have a hockey jersey, and I'm not wearing any pants.

Kara Swisher 1:04:58 Oh, nice. That's good. Good. Be on brand.

Scott Galloway 1:05:01 That's good.

Kara Swisher 1:05:01 That's perfect.

Scott Galloway 1:05:01 That's good.

Kara Swisher 1:05:01 That's perfect. On trend and on brand. Uh, that's a really, that's really important, Scott, and I think you're right. This is, there are... Before, when, when these com- Europe was not innovative the way the US has been on all these services, there are alternates right now. There are so many alternates to everything. If the, if Silicon Valley thinks they hung the fucking moon, well, they did. They might have, but no longer, and there are alternates in every single category now, that you don't have to put up with the ridiculous midlife crisis antics of Jeff Bezos or whatever, whatever fresh hell Meta is gonna le- unleash upon us. There are choices now, and some of them might be China, by the way, and that's, that's saying a lot if they're, that's where they're going. So I agree with you. I think it's really important. Um, just so you know, everyone, we will talk about Malt Book and Open Claw next week. It's fine. Agent to agent was always the plan, but, uh, we'll talk about that. It's interesting. And we also will talk about, um, uh, Section 230. There's been a new bill to overturn and replace it. Um, oddly enough, I ran into, uh, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, uh, this week, and he was here helping. We'll talk about that next week 'cause Section 230 is really interesting. I had some really interesting discussions with him and others about it. Uh-

Scott Galloway 1:06:12 Can I just say, I love the image of you being e- barely able to see over the mail cart going around-

Kara Swisher 1:06:17 [chuckles]

Scott Galloway 1:06:17 ... and people mistaking you for a fifteen-year-old boy. Can I just say I love that image? [chuckles] I love that you started the Washington Post mailroom. That is really cool.

Kara Swisher 1:06:26 It was, I, I reorganized it.

Scott Galloway 1:06:27 That is really cool.

Kara Swisher 1:06:28 It was so messy. I reorganized all the boxes 'cause I'm so anal retentive. I remember doing that.

Scott Galloway 1:06:33 That is really cool.

Kara Swisher 1:06:33 They're like: "What are you doing?" I'm like: "This is inefficient." [chuckles] And I was, like, in college. It's true. I was slightly taller than-

Scott Galloway 1:06:39 Hey, little fella, don't worry, you'll grow. Oh, wait.

Kara Swisher 1:06:41 [laughing]

Scott Galloway 1:06:41 No, that's Kara Swisher. [chuckles]

Kara Swisher 1:06:43 Anyway, they didn't know my name at all.

Scott Galloway 1:06:45 Oh, God.

Kara Swisher 1:06:45 And let me tell you, from doing that-... everybody who was talented was nice to me. Untalented people were assholes. It was really fast.

Scott Galloway 1:06:52 I worked in a mailroom. I worked in a mailroom-

Kara Swisher 1:06:54 Did you?

Scott Galloway 1:06:54 -of Southwestern University School of Law, where my mom ran the secretarial pool, and we used to have lunch together.

Kara Swisher 1:06:59 And here we are together again-

Scott Galloway 1:07:01 And here we are

Kara Swisher 1:07:02 ... without my picture behind you. Anyway, I'm not offended.

Scott Galloway 1:07:04 But here's the thing, I'm gonna have to move to a fu- everyone's all over me. "Are you selling your Apple stock? Did you unsubscribe to this?" I'm gonna have to move to Ted Kaczynski's shed and have-

Kara Swisher 1:07:12 Yeah

Scott Galloway 1:07:12 ... no entertainment [laughs] and have a ham radio, 'cause I'm running out of things to unsubscribe to. [laughs]

Kara Swisher 1:07:18 [laughs] True.

Scott Galloway 1:07:19 I wanted to wa-

Kara Swisher 1:07:19 Well, subscribe to us.

Scott Galloway 1:07:20 I've been binging that, I've been binging that gay hockey thing, which I think could easily turn me something.

Kara Swisher 1:07:25 Oh, yay! What do you think? Really quickly, what do you... That's just funny, because we'll have a bonus episode tomorrow. I spoke to the executive producers of Heated Rivalry about how they made the breakout hit for a fraction of the cost of other major streaming shows and what they've got coming next. What do you think so far? I made Scott watch-

Scott Galloway 1:07:40 I, I think it's a-

Kara Swisher 1:07:41 -Heated Rivalry.

Scott Galloway 1:07:41 I think it's an important series for young men to watch, 'cause there's different forms of leadership, and masculinity, and empathy, and love, and sexual identity. And I'll- I gotta be honest, Kara, every time I see something like this, I'm reminded of how many people I lost to AIDS back in the, in the '90s, and I don't think... I hope and trust that young people, and especially gay men, realize how important science is and how fortunate they are, and that America has made a lot of progress around these issues. Uh, I can't watch anything about gay men and not think about the '90s.

Kara Swisher 1:08:14 Yeah, you and I both.

Scott Galloway 1:08:15 Just-

Kara Swisher 1:08:15 Absolutely. Anyway, I'm so glad you're watching it. I hope- I can't wait till you get to episode five. Anyway, we wanna hear from you, and we have some homework for our listeners today. Send us a message about your favorite or least favorite Super Bowl ad after the big game on Sunday. We love the Anthropic one. We haven't seen them all.

Scott Galloway 1:08:30 Also, I woke up this morning in a Toronto Maple Leafs jersey, a half-bottle drink of Jack, and a condom hanging out of my ass.

Kara Swisher 1:08:35 Oh!

Scott Galloway 1:08:35 I don't know if that has anything to do-

Kara Swisher 1:08:37 Let's take that out. We're taking that out

Scott Galloway 1:08:38 ... with anything.

Kara Swisher 1:08:38 We're taking that out. Go to nytmag.com/pivot or call 855-51-PIVOT. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe, not unsubscribe, to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. [upbeat music]