Trump’s Latest Distraction from Epstein? Obama | Pivot

Kara Swisher 0:00 What does animate these people is the rigging of the 2016 election. The- this does satisfy them. It scratches their itch, and I don't know if it scratches their itch more than Epstein. (instrumental music plays) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

Scott Galloway 0:21 And I'm Scott Galloway.

Kara Swisher 0:22 Scott, I'm in San Francisco, my beloved San Francisco today.

Scott Galloway 0:25 Oh, really?

Kara Swisher 0:26 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 0:26 What, wh- why are you there?

Kara Swisher 0:27 More filming. I ate, I ate s- uh, cell, cell-created salmon yesterday.

Scott Galloway 0:34 Oh, really?

Kara Swisher 0:34 Yeah. Cool.

Scott Galloway 0:35 Um, yeah, that, that, uh, well, good for you. And what does that supposedly do for you?

Kara Swisher 0:40 Uh, well, it's just the idea of that we have to have healthier foods, and they're trying to do all kinds of really interesting lab experiments, uh, on how-

Scott Galloway 0:47 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 0:47 ... to create food. Uh, and, and it's really, uh, it is actually, and it's actually high in protein, all not additives-

Scott Galloway 0:53 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 0:53 ... not all kinds of things. It's interesting. Um, how do we feed the world health- in a healthy way to make them live longer?

Scott Galloway 0:59 We g- we give poor people more money.

Kara Swisher 1:01 That's correct. That's the other way to do it, but there's not enough fish in the sea. Thank you, thank you.

Scott Galloway 1:05 There's my virtue signaling kicking in.

Kara Swisher 1:07 We've got (laughs) a lot to get to today, including Trump's AI action plan and Tesla and Alphabet's earnings.

Kara Swisher 1:14 But first, uh, Elon Musk was right. Uh, Donald Trump is in the Epstein files. Uh, not a really big surprise, but Trump was reportedly informed by AG Pam Bondi back in May that his name appears multiple times in the files, probably quite a lot according to The Wall Street Journal. Bondi says nothing warranted further investigation for- or prosecution. In other Epstein news, the federal judge in Florida denied a DOJ request to release the j- grand jury transcripts, of course. The House Oversight Committee voted to subpoena the DOJ for Epstein files hours before the House adjourned for early, early for its summer recess. Mike Johnson did this on purpose so they didn't have to keep voting on the Epstein situation.

Scott Galloway 1:50 Yeah, "Nothing to see here. Go home."

Kara Swisher 1:52 "Nothing to see here. (laughs) Let's close down this door." The committee has, uh, subpoenaed Epstein associate Ghislaine Maxwell. Of course, it's another, you know, very performative thing with, uh, when the number two person at the Justice Department is taking his time to go talk to her, probably today. Um, we're gonna get to Trump's latest distraction move- maneuvers in a minute, which talk- Scott talked about, and boy did he land a big one, uh, another, another bearing wall of the MAGA movement around, uh, President Obama. But let's first talk about where things stand with Trump and Epstein. Uh, is there anything that he can do to stop the drip-drip at this point? Is it an opportunity for Democrats and, um, and we'll go through the... If you wanna go through those distractions first. Distractions is one way, but what else? And then we'll get to the distractions.

Scott Galloway 2:35 I think it's already underway. I think somebody has communicated to Ghislaine Maxwell in prison that if she exonerates the President, she'll get a pardon by the end of his term. I think it's already underway.

Kara Swisher 2:43 Which makes it worse though, right? Correct?

Scott Galloway 2:45 Mm...

Kara Swisher 2:45 Doesn't that make it even more of an-

Scott Galloway 2:49 I don't, I don't know. I think his base, I think if she, quote-unquote, I mean, think about how ridiculous this is, all of a sudden they've decided they might wanna speak to Ghislaine Maxwell. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 2:56 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 2:57 I mean, think about it. Uh, tha- that just dawned on the, the DE, uh, that just dawned on the Attorney General's office-

Kara Swisher 3:01 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 3:01 ... that maybe they should go speak to her? Uh, so it's been, in my opinion, just logic has said, okay, if you provide us with information or credible information or just basically say he had, he was there, but make it, make it believable, like, he was there, but he never engaged in anything like that, um, y- before the end of the term, wink, wink, you're gonna be back in, in Long Island or wherever she's from. Uh, I just, um... And i- will it get worse? I don't know. His base seems to want... I, I, I can't... I, I, uh, I don't feel as if I really understand his base at all, and I've been more wrong on this than right, and you've been r- more right on this than wrong, so I'll, I'll throw it back to you. What do you think is going on here?

Kara Swisher 3:41 I think he's not going away. I think he'll c- he's, he's sort of... Uh, I think the Obama thing, which we'll talk about in a second, is s- is the smart one because if, there's two things this group is, is enamored with, which is that there was a Russian hoax to stop, the, you know, the, the election was stolen. But, uh, I am not sure which one is a bigger bearing wall for this group, the Epstein stuff or this, and I, they're intertwined in the idea of a deep state. So it's hard to know if this one will work, um, and especially when it's being led by such an idiot like Tulsi Gabbard. Let's, let's talk about these distractions. You said last week we should track his attempts to distract the public and, um, media from Epstein. Let's get, go into what he's been up to, most of which is pointless and doesn't work. Taking credit for Stephen Colbert's cancellation and sending a warning to The View. I think that's a nothing burger. Threatening to block a deal for the Washington Commanders' new stadium if the team doesn't go back to their old name. I'm not even sure he can do that. Another nothing burger. Releasing over two thou- uh, 230,000 pages of files related to MLK's assassination. Again, uh, I think that went, came and went. Visiting the Federal Reserve, another came and went. Um, they're also proposing to rename the Kennedy Center's Opera House after Melania Trump. I, I don't even

Kara Swisher 4:51 understand that. But the one that seems to be the big one is Trump accusing former President Barack Obama of committing treason, claiming he rigged the 2016 election, which is also, uh, uh, as I said, a bearing wall of the MAGA movement's, uh, conspiracy theories. Uh, Trump told, uh, reporters in the Oval Office this week that it's time to go after people calling out Obama, Biden, Comey, and others. He cited declassified materials recently released by Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard which seem to fall apou- apart on initial scrutiny. Gabbard says the documents detail a years-long coup by, in Obama's intelligence officials against Trump. Uh, Obama is finally pushing back. I actually talked to, uh, people m- m- with him, and I was like, "Are you finally gonna say something 'cause I told you that he was coming here." Uh, his spokesman described, uh, Trump's comments as bizarre allegations and called this a ridiculous and weak attempt at distraction. I think it's not a weak attempt. I think it's actually a strong attempt at distraction and probably the only one that has any legs. Your thoughts, Scott? You were-

Scott Galloway 5:49 My thoughts are-

Kara Swisher 5:49 ... 100% right about all these distractions, of course, and there are lots of them.

Scott Galloway 5:52 My thoughts are that you've never heard a heterosexual woman use the term bearing wall.

Kara Swisher 5:56 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 5:57 Um-I was with a group of women last night, uh, that used terms like fractal laser-

Kara Swisher 6:02 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 6:02 ... uh, brow lift, Kegels, but no, I've never heard a straight woman use the term-

Kara Swisher 6:07 I've done Kegels.

Scott Galloway 6:07 ... bearing wall.

Kara Swisher 6:08 I've done Kegels.

Scott Galloway 6:08 I mean, could you be a bigger lesbian? I'm in San Francisco-

Kara Swisher 6:11 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 6:11 ... and every metaphor is, is a construction term. (laughs) A bearing wall.

Kara Swisher 6:16 Well, you, you got my point, didn't you? Did I make my point clearly?

Scott Galloway 6:18 No, uh, yeah, it makes sense. It's-

Kara Swisher 6:20 Okay.

Scott Galloway 6:20 ... it's why you are-

Kara Swisher 6:21 Pillar.

Scott Galloway 6:21 ... who you are.

Kara Swisher 6:21 The pillar.

Scott Galloway 6:22 Lean into it.

Kara Swisher 6:23 Structure.

Scott Galloway 6:23 Lean into... You like you.

Kara Swisher 6:25 What is it? Uh-

Scott Galloway 6:26 Look, I don't-

Kara Swisher 6:26 Foundation. Foundation.

Scott Galloway 6:28 I think Obama, I would've thought Obama was nearly bulletproof. Again, th- these distractions are becoming so... They're so ridiculous, and yet, every day, I turn on CNBC or CNN or Fox and they're just-

Kara Swisher 6:39 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 6:39 ... going for it. They're like-

Kara Swisher 6:40 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 6:40 ... "Wherever he takes us, we'll take the bait."

Kara Swisher 6:42 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 6:43 I would've thought that Obama at this point, these types of allegations would only, I don't know, hurt, u- undermine his credibility. You're, I think on this stuff, you just g- yeah, you just get it more than I do.

Kara Swisher 6:54 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 6:54 You think this is gonna work, or you think e- that it's gonna be-

Kara Swisher 6:57 I don't know.

Scott Galloway 6:58 ... short and effective.

Kara Swisher 6:58 I do think it's the right one if you're looking for a distraction. That's all I'm saying. It's, it's the right distraction. 'Cause I don't think anyone cares about JFK anymore. I don't... I think some people do. I don't think anyone cares about MLK. I don't think anyone cares about Melania Trump or, um, or, or the commander. It's like, uh, he can't, he's not gonna follow through, and I don't think his fights with Rosie O'Donnell or The View or whatever matter. I don't think this an- animates these people. What does animate these people is the rigging of the 2016 election. The, this does satisfy them. It scratches their itch. And I don't know if it scratches their itch more than Epstein. That's the thing that I don't... I'm not sure which one animates them more. They like to let Trump off the hook, that's for sure. So.

Scott Galloway 7:42 Yeah, it's, uh, I mean, I'm waiting for what the next distraction... At some point, he's gonna release a sex tape of him and Charlie Kirk.

Kara Swisher 7:48 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 7:49 It's just... (laughs)

Kara Swisher 7:50 Ew. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 7:50 "Say my name, Chuck!"

Kara Swisher 7:52 Oh, my God.

Scott Galloway 7:52 "Say my name!"

Kara Swisher 7:53 That is now in my head.

Scott Galloway 7:55 Ah, teeing off, hole number four.

Kara Swisher 7:57 Oh, God.

Scott Galloway 7:57 Yeah. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 7:58 Five heads.

Scott Galloway 7:58 Uh, bearing wall!

Kara Swisher 8:00 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 8:02 Um, I, I don't got a lot going on today. I don't have a lot of insight-

Kara Swisher 8:05 You haven't even gotten-

Scott Galloway 8:05 ... so I'm going very dirty.

Kara Swisher 8:06 You haven't even gotten to-

Scott Galloway 8:06 I don't know.

Kara Swisher 8:07 ... power tools.

Scott Galloway 8:07 Look, this is no-

Kara Swisher 8:08 You haven't mentioned power tools.

Scott Galloway 8:09 Okay, my earn- uh, these guys are cut from the same cloth. My Tesla earnings are fucked, so I'm gonna, uh, I'm gonna launch a diner. I mean, the art of distraction here, D- Don Draper summed it up.

Kara Swisher 8:19 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 8:20 About, he said, "If you don't like what's being said about you, change the conversation."

Kara Swisher 8:24 Right.

Scott Galloway 8:24 And that, this is the mother of all that. Every day, and I've said this before, I, I think there are three or four... They have great communications people in a room with AI, saying, with this massive prompt around something that's, that doesn't... W- the maximum amount of distraction to the minimum amount of damage to Trump and maximum amount of damage to his enemies. So, the Obama thing, AI came back and said accuse Obama of, of being involved in the Russia hoax. E- eh, this is all brought to you by AI, and every day it's the same thing. Look over here. This is, I, the term I use is we're at the Nuremberg Trials and someone on trial whips out the kazoo hoping that everyone forgets why exactly why we're there and what they did. And it's not working. I feel as if these things are creating a lot of noise, but maybe, maybe they are a bit of a distraction, but it feels like everyone is, you know, the, the general public, including Republicans, it's like a dog on a soup bone. They're just not letting it go.

Kara Swisher 9:19 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. On this, on this, on the Epstein-

Scott Galloway 9:22 On Epstein.

Kara Swisher 9:22 Because it is also part and parcel of the same conspiracy theories. I just interviewed, uh, uh, Doane from CNN and Julie K. Brown, who actually broke the original Epstein, uh-

Scott Galloway 9:32 She's the Miami reporter?

Kara Swisher 9:34 Sh- M- Miami reporter who did that.

Scott Galloway 9:35 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 9:36 And one of the things they were not-

Scott Galloway 9:37 She's the hero in all of this.

Kara Swisher 9:38 She is. She is, and she's been banging away at this for years. And one of the things she did say, though, is that things... I mean, uh, Doane from CNN is amazing. He covers conspiracy theories. He's like, he, uh, he couldn't tell which one will work, but this, these two are intertwined, this idea of a deep state, right? That's at the heart of both of these conspiracy theories essentially, is that there's a deep state, there's a cabal, there's a group. There's always a cabal. It has... You know, in the Epstein case, which I hadn't thought of, it had vague, uh, um, antisemitic attacks 'cause Epstein was Jewish. And, um, there's all kinds of that idea. Israel is in there and different things like that. I think Trump has to be very careful about what he does around Ghislaine Maxwell, right? 'Cause if he lets her off or if there's any hint that he's letting her off, he looks like he's been taken in. The other thing he's gotta watch out for is that he's relying on Tulsi Gabbard, who is such a sloppy, terrible, uh, national intelligence, uh, head. Um, the stuff she's putting out is so easily provably wrong that it creates strength. I do think it's to, to, t- the, the, the press should take whatever they're saying seriously and look into it no matter what, right? Okay, let's... Show us the stuff. We're gonna do the reporting. And then likely overturn it, right? Um, but I don't think it does any... Uh, eh, even if it's coming from a clown like Tulsi Gabbard, it, it's not something w- you, the press shouldn't say, "Okay, you're saying this? Let's go through it," just like they did with the drawing, um, et cetera. It's like, "Okay, you say you don't draw? You draw." Right? That kind of stuff. Just do reporting on all this stuff. I do, I, I do think Epstein has longer legs than anything, even this stolen election stuff. I think they are just... It has so many elements of what works in a conspiracy theory. Um, I, I don't know about Obama. You're right. I thought he was untouchable. I thought he should've said something way before this and weakened Trump long ago, as you know. Um, but he's gonna now be on his back foot on this stuff 'cause how do you push... You know, when did you, when did you stop beating your wife, sir? Kind of thing. Um-

Scott Galloway 11:42 Yeah, force him to deny it. That, but... Just the only thing, the only, the only wrinkle I would add or nuance is that, uh, I think the fix is already in. I think someone has already communicated to Ghislaine Maxwell that if she's gonna have to give testimony and it's gonna be on the record, and if by chance that the truth comes out that the president...... was a friend but, uh, was not i- involved in any of this, that who knows what might happen by the end of your term? Wink, wink. And at the end of his term, at Trump's term, when he pardons Ghislaine Maxwell, which is, uh, what I think is gonna happen after she gives ... after she lies and says, um, he was not involved in anything, I don't think he cares. He's an obese octogenarian who has no love in his life.

Kara Swisher 12:21 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 12:21 That, generally speaking, means you're gonna die soon. I, I think biology is gonna take care of Donald Trump.

Kara Swisher 12:26 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 12:26 The most dan- I put ... I said the most dangerous person in the world was Pe- Peter Thiel, but ...

Kara Swisher 12:29 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 12:29 Anyways, the, the ... I don't think he cares. I think the fix is already in and w- what are they gonna do to the guy when he's 83 and they're like, "Oh my God, he, he's pardoned Ghislaine Maxwell-"

Kara Swisher 12:38 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 12:38 ... and this is outrageous?"

Kara Swisher 12:39 Once again.

Scott Galloway 12:39 What the fuck is he gonna care?

Kara Swisher 12:41 That's an-

Scott Galloway 12:41 Why would he care?

Kara Swisher 12:42 ... excellent point. Yeah, that's an excellent point.

Scott Galloway 12:43 The fix is already in.

Kara Swisher 12:44 He's gotten-

Scott Galloway 12:45 Why-

Kara Swisher 12:45 ... away with it.

Scott Galloway 12:45 Why have they all of a sudden figured out it'd be a good idea to talk to Ghislaine Maxwell? (laughs)

Kara Swisher 12:50 Well, one is 'cause she committed perjury, I believe, and she also has not really t- ... I mean, one of the things that Julie was pointing out, and I think cor- correctly, is Ghislaine Maxwell is as culpable as Epstein in this. She was his pr- an equal predator to him, eh, though, you know, he had the dramatic d- death. But, um, she was part and parcel to this pair that w- you know, the Bonnie and Clyde of pedophiles, essentially. And, um, and she was just as culpable. And so I think letting her off will ... uh, i- is a little stronger than that because she's not, like, some bystander. She has not cooperated. She has not said things. She's been found to lie. Um, I think letting her off will stick to Trump in a way that maybe has not ... uh, I don't think he cares. I think you're right.

Scott Galloway 13:34 I- if you're 83 and about to die, and all you got is maybe seven more rounds of golf-

Kara Swisher 13:38 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 13:38 ... what the fuck do you care what sticks to you or what doesn't? I-

Kara Swisher 13:41 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 13:41 I- i- all he cares about is getting off this topic right now.

Kara Swisher 13:45 Right.

Scott Galloway 13:45 That's it.

Kara Swisher 13:45 Right, right, to, to, to accomplishing ... Any, any idea of what the next distract- what would be a strong distraction? Any ideas?

Scott Galloway 13:52 I think that ... Oh gosh, I have no idea. I, I, I mean, I, I did not see-

Kara Swisher 13:58 Obama.

Scott Galloway 13:58 ... We Can't Change the Name From ... to the Washington Commanders coming.

Kara Swisher 14:01 Oh yeah, (laughs) that's true.

Scott Galloway 14:03 I mean, the most ridiculous trade deal, uh, by the way, the, the trade deal with Japan is we've m- we've absolutely ceded advantage to Japanese automakers. On the announcement of this new, quote/unquote, big framework, Japanese automakers soared 12 to 18%. They're desperate to just do anything. Uh, I think it'll mostly ... His biggest weapon right now, 'cause it gets a lot of attention, is something around Powell, something around, um, tariffs.

Kara Swisher 14:27 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 14:28 Uh, but you're right. There's, uh, i- i- it'll ... If he comes up with three or four new accusations each day on Obam- on the Obamas-

Kara Swisher 14:36 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 14:36 ... um, you know, maybe that-

Kara Swisher 14:37 'Cause Clinton doesn't ... He can't really beat that horse anymore, right? The Clinton, m- Mrs. Clinton.

Scott Galloway 14:42 The e- cl- Hillary emails? I don't ... I think even they're tired of that.

Kara Swisher 14:44 I don't th- yeah, I think Hillary's ... I think Obama's a much better target for him in that regard. Uh, we'll see if it works though, 'cause Obama's got his own skills, let's just say. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Elon's warning after Tesla's disappointing earnings.

Kara Swisher 14:58 Scott, we're back with more news. Time for a quick roundup of earnings. First up, Tesla. Elon Musk said Tesla could, quote, "uh, probably have a few rough quarters," unquote. You think, Elon? After the company's latest earnings, the Musk company reported a 16% year-over-year decline in automotive revenue, which is hard 'cause it's an automotive company. Adjusted net income fell 23% to 1.4 billion. It makes Twitter look like a great business. Sales of Model Y and Model 3 fell 12%, and Cybertruck sales fell 52%. I mean, that's f- that's gone right through the ground. Um, I'll just mention the others. Alphabet's overall revenue grew 14% year over year, but the company increased its capital expenditures forecast by $10 billion, citing demand for its cloud products. Uh, revenue for Alphabet's cloud computing business increased 32%. That was impressive, finally. I had a many year ago discussion with Sundar Pichai about why they're not in the cloud computing business as much as they were a long time ago, and they seem to be right there. They're also pushed by, obviously, AI and stuff. For GM, the auto company said its profits fell by more than a third in the second quarter due to tariffs costing the company over a billion, and as Scott pointed out, um, uh, that it's, uh, gonna get hit further with this Japanese deal. Scott, any thoughts on any of these?

Scott Galloway 16:11 Well, you covered the, I mean, Tesla's earnings again. Uh, no, no automobile company in the world trades at a PE of 180 and has a trillion dollar market cap, and at the same time, their revenues are declining faster than any automobile company in the world. And Musk knows those two do not stay in unison for very long. At some point, he either has to massively reignite growth, or the stock is gonna crash, and it feels like the latter.

Kara Swisher 16:34 Or do some merger of some sort.

Scott Galloway 16:36 Or, say, xAI or, um-

Kara Swisher 16:38 SpaceX.

Scott Galloway 16:38 ... announcing a diner or, "We're not a car company. We're doing robots." Uh, uh, it's no accident they announced, by the way, which is a really cool idea. It will add no shareholder value, but it's an amazing marketing idea. This Tesla diner, it's no acci- uh, I said this on Property Markets-

Kara Swisher 16:53 We should go.

Scott Galloway 16:54 ... yesterday. The fact that he opened this diner just days before these earnings came out is, again, no accident. I'm, I'm not exaggerating. 40 hours, 48 hours ago when it came out, I said to Ed Elson on Property Markets, I said, "That means he's about to puke on the earnings call, and he's trying to get everyone to look away."

Kara Swisher 17:07 Right.

Scott Galloway 17:08 Their revenues are down 12%. Their bright spot was their services or their supercharging station. But this thing's trading at a trillion dollar valuation, and it's, it's declining faster than Ren- I mean, there's no car company in the world that's posting these numbers this bad. On a more meta level, I think what's happened here ... I think 2025 will be the year that, uh, late night TV w- turns out the lights, and also, I think this is the year where we kind of officially cede anything resembling leadership to the automotive industry. I think the automotive industry now in the US is, uh, on a, kind of The Green Mile death march. And what do you have? You had our nash- you have our national champion, Tesla, which is worth more than the rest of the automobile industry combined, starting to throw up. And they released the worst product, car product of the year, the Cybertruck. They're, they're, they're grasping at straws right now saying, "We're AI. We're this." Th- uh, so that is a huge blow to the American automobile industry 'cause Tesla was the national champion. And then the traditional player, General Motors, just announced that their earnings were taken down by a billion dollars because of tariffs, and then you have Japanese car companies ... I love that Trump announces it's a big victory that they won't charge any tariffs on our cars going into Japan. Okay. Let's just talk about what a give that is.We buy about $54 billion of the Japanese cars in the US. Do you know how many, do you know the dollar volume of cars the Japanese buy from the US?

Kara Swisher 18:31 $26.

Scott Galloway 18:33 Two billion.

Kara Swisher 18:34 Right, what is it? What car is it?

Scott Galloway 18:35 Like a, a few Japanese billionaires buy Escalades. That's it.

Kara Swisher 18:38 Escalades, yeah.

Scott Galloway 18:38 We don't sell ... The Japanese want nothing to do with our cars. So for them to say, "Fine, no tariffs," it's not a give. And they are now, this trade agreement is gonna keep flat or lower the tariffs coming to the US. So what do you have? You have more pressure from amazing manufacturers, specifically Japanese manufacturers. You have our national champion going into the shitter. And you have our old guard, General Motors, announcing that these tariffs are really hurting them. And then if you want validation of just how bad this deal is for America, the ultimate neutral arbiter that absorbs millions of points of lights and is not politicized, it's totally focused on fear and greed, is the markets. And what happened in the market when these tariffs, this Japanese big beautiful deal was announced yesterday? Toyota was up 16 or 17%.

Kara Swisher 19:23 And he's made it worse, he's made it worse if he's talking about protecting manufacturing here. He's decided not to protect them, actually making it worse for them. Um, what about, uh, Alphabet?

Scott Galloway 19:33 Uh, staggering. Uh, and I'm talking about my own book here.

Kara Swisher 19:36 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 19:36 Every year, I make a big tech stock pick.

Kara Swisher 19:38 You did this month.

Scott Galloway 19:39 And it's based on, it's based on valuation. And, uh, okay, the existential threat, you know, quote-unquote, "search" is being undermined by AI. Search revenue, search revenue grew 12%. (laughs) Their search, this company that, this, quote-unquote, "technology" that is supposedly being disrupted by AI, it grew double digits. YouTube up 13%, Cloud up 32%. They have five different businesses-

Kara Swisher 20:07 As you've noted.

Scott Galloway 20:08 ... that could be independent, independent companies.

Kara Swisher 20:11 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 20:11 And they have Search, uh, an unbelievable display ad network, YouTube, subscriptions, and seven products that have o- over two billion users. Search, Maps, Gmail, Android, Chrome, Play Store and YouTube. And now their new growth vehicle is Waymo, which is by far the most dominant autonomous player with more than 100 million total miles logged on, on public roads. In addition, this company trades at, I think the average S&P company trades at a PE multiple of 26. So Google, which is growing faster than the S&P, much faster, and has this incredible, incredible leadership, is cheaper than the average S&P company. And pick your average S&P company. I always say it's Dow Chemical or PNG. Great companies, call them the average. Would you rather have autonomous and YouTube than, you know, uh, Tide? I mean, it, this company relative ... The existential threat or the overhang of the existential threat of AI has been vastly exaggerated at Alphabet. And then if you look at the IP they have and the investments they're making, and they announced, they announced massive CapEx here that, you know, they're just gonna, they're gonna build. We're gonna get there just on money. They've announced that they're increasing their CapEx up to 85 billion from 75. Microsoft is at 80. Meta is between 64 and 72, and Amazon is up to 100 billion. But if you wanna talk about CapEx going into AI, you know, a lot of Amazon CapEx goes into boring shit like f- you know, like distribution centers and planes and things. Uh, so what do you have? You have unbelievable businesses that continue to grow. You have, uh, th- the, probably some of the deepest IP around AI, you have a cloud business growing 33% a year, and a company that's trading at a lower multiple than the S&P. So anyway, I'm very bullish.

Kara Swisher 21:58 I would agree. One of the things you, uh, everyone focuses so much on Mark Zuckerberg overpaying for talent. I would look at Google. Like I think he's gonna maybe blow the money in that regard, in, in terms of catching up. He thinks he can do it by this brute force research essentially. It's just not possible.

Scott Galloway 22:13 Are you talking about-

Kara Swisher 22:14 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 22:14 ... Sundar or, or-

Kara Swisher 22:15 Sundar-

Scott Galloway 22:16 ... M- Mark?

Kara Swisher 22:16 ... is quietly, like, making, like ... He has a lot of businesses to pull levers on, as you note. And I think they have a better story than the sort of flashy jazz hands version that Meta is doing, which is stealing talent all over the place.

Scott Galloway 22:31 Look, Sundar, Sundar is ... I've been thinking a lot about, they asked me at this thing last night, who should run for President or who would you like to see as President? And I said, "I think competence, we're entering an age where competence and the amount of press you get are inversely correlated."

Kara Swisher 22:47 That's correct.

Scott Galloway 22:48 And that is, I think one of the most accretive actions for the quality of life of Americans would be a president like Michael Bennet, who lacks the charisma to be in your face and in the news cycle every day.

Kara Swisher 22:57 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 22:58 I think I spend easily an hour a day thinking about or having Trump rent-free in my brain.

Kara Swisher 23:03 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 23:03 And I hate to admit it, but a, just a competent, you know, good governance is really fucking boring and doesn't get headlines. And really competent leaders don't feel a need to be attention merchants and want you to have time to focus on your kids and your relationships and making money. And Sundar Pichai is that kind of CEO. He's not, he's not out there like Musk or, or-

Kara Swisher 23:24 Satya as the second.

Scott Galloway 23:25 Yeah, it's, they're just like-

Kara Swisher 23:26 Even Cook.

Scott Galloway 23:26 "I'm just gonna do the boring shit that moves the needle."

Kara Swisher 23:28 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 23:28 "I don't need press."

Kara Swisher 23:30 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 23:30 "I don't need to be in your face every day. I don't need to virtue signal and talk about not working with this comp-" Uh, you know, these guys aren't, these guys aren't jonesing-

Kara Swisher 23:39 They can't shut the fuck up. They can't.

Scott Galloway 23:40 These guys aren't jonesing for the camera every fucking day-

Kara Swisher 23:43 Right.

Scott Galloway 23:43 ... or in your face every day.

Kara Swisher 23:45 A lot of them, I'm like, "Stop talking. Stop talking. Please stop talking." Like, and you don't, you see Sundar not doing that. You see a Satya not doing that. I mean, they give interviews, but it's very typical, right? It's the typ- rather than the sort of jazz hands performative stuff.

Scott Galloway 23:58 Do you remember during COVID when we did those series of specials, uh, special webinars or podcasts and Sundar came on?

Kara Swisher 24:05 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 24:05 I think his kid was coming in the room. He kept looking over and, like, waving people off.

Kara Swisher 24:09 Right, yeah.

Scott Galloway 24:09 I don't know if it was his kid or his comms person saying-

Kara Swisher 24:11 He's a very nice man.

Scott Galloway 24:11 ... "Get off of the bearing wall, bitch."

Kara Swisher 24:13 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 24:13 "She's gonna make us look bad."

Kara Swisher 24:15 I love ... You're gonna use, let me just tell you-

Scott Galloway 24:17 Bearing wall.

Kara Swisher 24:17 ... now your prediction, your next appearance in Aspen with the ladies of Alo, you'll use the word bearing wall, I swear to God.

Scott Galloway 24:23 100%.

Kara Swisher 24:23 You, you know you are. You, you've said it so much-

Scott Galloway 24:25 They love me there.

Kara Swisher 24:25 ... you're like, "Oh, that was good."

Scott Galloway 24:26 They're love- they love, they're up and they're like-

Kara Swisher 24:28 "I'm gonna steal that from-"

Scott Galloway 24:28 ... "Why won't the Democrats listen to you?" And then I'm like, "Well, hello, what's your name? I think we have the same dermatologist. Let's go to San Ambrose." Would you like, would you like to take a hike with me tomorrow?

Kara Swisher 24:37 No. No one wants to take a hike with you. Um, and you don't hike. I can't imagine you hiking, but okay.

Scott Galloway 24:42 I'm young and good-looking for Aspen. Most of the guys there literally like too much time in s- the sun.

Kara Swisher 24:46 (laughs) You are.

Scott Galloway 24:47 You made a lot of money, but you didn't spend enough on sunblock.

Kara Swisher 24:50 Anyway, let- speaking of which, Elon's xAI is working to raise up to $12 billion in debt for a massive supply of Nvidia cli- uh, chips to help train and, uh, power Grok. Valor Equity Partners, whose founder has close ties to Musk, has been working with lenders to secure capital to lease the chips for the company. This is a big fucking play. First of all, Musk doesn't partner with anybody like OpenAI and the o- uh, and, and, uh, and the others. Anthropic. Uh, secondly, they're losing $13 billion.... it's, like, crazy how much money this thing is losing and almost no revenues. Um, and they're raising the money. And by the way, speaking of which, his money-making thing over at, at, uh, SpaceX. Paperwork sent to investors discussing a tender offer included an interesting risk factor that Elon Musk may return to politics. Uh, this feels like-

Scott Galloway 25:41 (laughs) I love that.

Kara Swisher 25:41 ... this feels very-

Scott Galloway 25:43 I hope so. I hope so.

Kara Swisher 25:43 ... shaky to me. Like, I can't believe-

Scott Galloway 25:45 He's running on the Hot Topic ticket.

Kara Swisher 25:47 I know. But one of the things is, this is a lot. The $13 billion he's raising 12. I mean, it's always good to bet on Elon, but I was like, "This guy's a high-wire act of all high-wire acts here," um, around the m- around all, everything he's doing. And then he over at SpaceX, which would y- we would assume would be his, his, uh, seat, cornice, um, his bearing wall, so to speak. Uh, he's really kicking it, kicking it in the foundations in a lot of ways with this political stuff. I don't know.

Scott Galloway 26:16 I, I don't think he has any choice. If you look at, uh, the guy's a brilliant guy, and there's... The reason he's the wealthiest per- there's, there's a myth, and I hate it when usually venture capitalists or entrepreneurs say this, they get on stage and someone references their wealth or money or the stock price and they say, "You know, I never really thought about money. I just wanted to build-"

Kara Swisher 26:33 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 26:33 "... something great." These guys would fuck their sister for a nickel.

Kara Swisher 26:35 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 26:35 These guys are obsessed, obsessed with money. And let me be clear-

Kara Swisher 26:40 Yeah. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 26:40 ... if you want to have a lot of money, you need to be thinking about it all the time. Roger Federer thinks about tennis a lot. You know, these, y- you have to be... And I, I, I think young people, I love it when they talk about stocks. I try to be very open and transparent about my investments and how much money I've made or lost. You need to be financially, financially literate. And this guy understands the relationship between, uh, the means of production, revenues, profits, and also in an era of perception where essentially the multiple you get on whatever revenues you have is purely a function of the perception of you as an innovator. And this is where he has, between SpaceX, Tesla, and Twitter, he has about $1.4 trillion in value. The lion's share of that is $1 trillion in value from Tesla, and he looks at it and goes, "This is a $50 billion company pretending to be a trillion"-

Kara Swisher 27:32 Yeah, oh shit.

Scott Galloway 27:32 "... dollar market cap company."

Kara Swisher 27:33 He knows it, yeah.

Scott Galloway 27:34 The only thing he can do to possibly keep that trillion-dollar balloon from bursting is, is two words. First is A, second is I. So he is doing anything he can to try and figure out a way to establish the perception of AI leadership and wrap it around all of this shit. So he, he is not afraid to spend, he, he has... The only way this, his empire stays worth $1.4 trillion and he maintains his status as the wealthiest man in the world is to figure out a way for Tesla to get some perception or to get wrapped in an AI glove. So he doesn't care what it costs, and 13 billion, uh, Tesla, Tesla was down, what, 7%? Tesla lost 70 billion yesterday after their earnings. So 13 billion, uh, he can't spend money fast enough. Uh, if it, if someone comes in and says, "You know, I think this will give us a slight little bit of, little AI-"

Kara Swisher 28:31 Edge, yeah.

Scott Galloway 28:31 "... juju, but it's gonna cost a billion dollars and I have no idea if it's gonna work," green light it.

Kara Swisher 28:36 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 28:36 Green light it.

Kara Swisher 28:37 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 28:37 He has to get the AI veneer over this $1.35 trillion enterprise that is worth... SpaceX, I believe is worth 350 billion, Tesla 50, Twitter 10. I mean, he, he-

Kara Swisher 28:51 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 28:51 All he's thinking about is, "How do I keep Tesla, uh, in the limelight?" And the only thing he can do, again, is the AI Botox, brow lift, fractal laser here.

Kara Swisher 29:02 Yeah, I know. The o- the thing is with SpaceX, I think Trump can still do damage to it. There's, even though they said, "We can't live without it," I think they're trying to figure out a way to live without it, right? Now they're on that path. And so, that's even, uh, you know, and especially as he, if he returns into US politics, w- and it will be loudly, by the way, so it will take focus off of it. And, uh, I, that'll be a problem. And, and by the way, Peter Thiel is back spending money on politics, which he said he was getting out of quietly, right? Speaking of confi- quiet confidence, he, you know, that's what he's doing, um, where nothing is at risk. But I don't think E- Musk can resist himself. I think he's just the most high-wire act I've ever seen, and in some ways it's, I don't want to use the term admirable, but it's like Je- when I saw that number, I was like, "Jesus, this guy's..." Uh, good luck. I don't know if it's the galas that-

Scott Galloway 29:50 What number? The number he's on, on-

Kara Swisher 29:51 The $13 billion in losses.

Scott Galloway 29:53 Oh, I see.

Kara Swisher 29:53 Like-

Scott Galloway 29:53 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 29:53 ... wow. Well, he just isn't, he's playing all, you know, the, the sort of, th- this game that he's playing is really high level i- in a way that's, I would never do, it's terrifying. But this is him, this is the way he is, and this, and he's, he's gonna go down in flames or probably he'll go down in flames. But ultimately it, it's really quite astonishing to watch it. Uh, and I think you're right, the valuations are way off of what they actually will be, and at some point, they'll come down to earth. Uh, all right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump says he's removing the red tape

Kara Swisher 30:23 around AI. Scott, we're back with more news. Trump says he's removing the red tape around AI. The President spoke about his AI action plan, signed three executive orders at a summit hosted by the All-In Podcast in Washington this week. I wonder why they didn't invite us? The orders aim to fast-track, uh, permitting for data centers, which okay, promote American technology abroad, hmm, okay, and ban ideologically based AI systems from federal contracting. That's just stupid, but a little, a little meat for his base. Uh, one other thing Trump thinks is holding AI back, copyright law, incredibly. Let's, so he's kicked, uh, one industry in the, in the nuts. So let's listen to a clip.

Narrator 31:00 You can't be expected to have a successful AI program when every single article, book, or anything else that you've read or studied, you're supposed to pay for. "Gee, I read a book. I'm supposed to pay somebody." And, you know, we, we appreciate that-... but just can't do it because it's not doable. (screen whooshing)

Kara Swisher 31:17 Okay. This is amazing. I thought that was amazing. I thought the, the, the, the whole thing was kind of ridiculous hand-wavy stuff, and it was sort of basic basics of like, yes, we could have less regulation. But it essentially was Silicon Valley getting back its money first spending on Trump. That's what it looked like. And then he also went off script a number. He talked about trans athletes, he talked about tariffs, he talked about everything. But it looked like, uh, Silicon Valley was getting its bit. Um, D- David Sacks was sort of the leader of that and he's, he's on the All-In podcast. Um, but it's, uh ... Uh, that to me it, it was sort of a nothing burger. I think a lot of people didn't pay attention to it. It was very showy. Um, but e- essentially his minions, um, eh, his minions in tech getting the payback for what they've gotten. I don't think there was anything here except for the copyright law which was, like showed an astonishing lack of, of, of knowledge about the real problem here. So he's sort of giving the green light for tech to do what it did before. What are your thoughts?

Scott Galloway 32:13 I see this as just nothing but a, kind of a long term transfer of wealth from Los Angeles and New York to Silicon Valley. And that is if, if late night TV could go back in time, they would've partnered with every other high end, um, TV show and said, "We can't have YouTube crawl. We've all gotta bind together and license it for more money." 'Cause they'll take ... Uh, basically with YouTube, I can go see the best two minutes of Colbert and I don't have to endure 22 minutes of advertising through the hour. So they're basically ... And they let 'em do it, and the time to stop it would've been 10 or 15 years ago. And e- effectively what they're saying here is they're going back in time and saying, "Okay, these are ..." They're opting for Facebook's right or Google's right to crawl IP, slice it, dice it, and to a certain extent, probably make more shareholder value than the traditional media companies have been able to do. The problem is, is that journalism is weakening. The, an industry that employs more people is weakening. So it's, it's disruption but it's also ... All right. W- what is the incentive to do good work and create original IP and do investigative journalism if the asset-like companies that don't have to hire people or hire gaffers or sound people can just come in and crawl our data? And they claim that you couldn't do this. Well, actually the music industry's figured out a way to do it. Every radio station in America can crawl any song and then play it. But they pay a small fee, like probably a quarter of a cent, and every year they send a check to a royalty or an artist group that then says, "Okay, Madonna, here's your check for $685,000 from the radio stations in the Southeast." So they could've figured out h- ... In my opinion, this is him m- ... Uh, this is payback for Silicon Valley who said, "We wanna continue to, (laughs) to crawl and molest other people's data that they've spent money on, that they've risked their lives sometimes going into hotspots to cover reporting or ..." I mean, it's just a transfer of wealth to, uh, Silicon Valley by saying, "Okay. AI needs to run, you know, needs to run flat out with no friction, not have to pay anybody else, crawl books, crawl music and it, it ... We get to do it." And y- the argument you would make is that Ame- part of America's leadership from market capitalization standpoint, innovation standpoint is that we err on the side of a lack of regulation. So that is a real argument. And also you could argue, "Okay, so we're stealing a dollar from the garage of Warner Brothers but we can take that dollar we're stealing and turn it into seven whereas they can t- ... They turn it into 50 cents." So there is sort of an economic argument or an innovator's argument that this is good for AI. Let our, let our thoroughbreds run. But we've been to this movie before folks. Just keep in mind, don't let your kids go into original IP or art or creative because now AI can just crawl it and doesn't have to pay you back.

Kara Swisher 35:01 Yeah. Well, the problem is I don't think he's necessarily gonna ... I, i- he's just saying this whether it's g- ... N- you know. Everything he says like, "I'm gonna take the commanders out." But he's not. He's not. And the l- for example, on Monday, Josh Hawley and, uh, from Missouri and Senator Blumenthal, uh, Richard Blumenthal from Connecticut, Democrat, Repub- Republican, Democrat, unveiled legislation that would require AI companies to, to, to get consent of individuals for using their content and data and developing it. This is not going to ... Copyright law is quite robust in that regard. And so just 'cause Trump says it's not so, first of all, he's as dumb as a box of hammers but, um, but they also didn't ... By the way, they didn't mention deepfakes in this thing which is supposed to be their big thing. They didn't mention like so many things were out of this thing. It was just a show. It was such a, such a nothing burger of a, of an everything. Um, and one of the things that n- you know, especially around ... And I have to say G- Governor Newsom who is, has on point social media these days, um, wrote, "President Trump's executive order on AI threatens to defund states like California with strong laws against AI generated child porn. Some might say that's an interesting priority, particularly in light of his close ties with Jeffrey Epstein." I thought that was (laughs) quite good, this picture of him with Jeffrey Epstein. Um, so I don't know if this is gonna be such an easy thing that I know the, the tech companies would like to get out of this, but I don't think they are. I don't think ... In this case, copyright is quite strong. I think there's a lot of supporters of that even if ... And not just, uh, you know, media. I think it's movies. There's lots and lots and lots of s- pe- people that still have some juice. Um, and we'll see if they can do that. They also were showing some signs of weakness. SoftBank and OpenAI's $500 million Stargate project intended to boost USAI is facing setbacks over disagreements about key terms of the deal including where to build data centers. The companies pledged to immediately invest $100 billion in the project in January but they only plan right now is to build a small data center by the (laughs) end of the year. It's pretty pathetic actually. It would have probably cost tens of millions of dollars, maybe 50. Like just 'cause Trump says it, like a lot of things, doesn't mean it's happening and this AI thing was incredibly weak sauce I thought. I was sort of like, "Well, I wasn't invited but I'm kinda glad I wasn't." Um,

Kara Swisher 37:08 and it just looked like a payoff to me. Um, um, the one that I thought was more disturbing was Columbia University agreeing to pay $200 million fine to resolve the Trump Administration's investigation into alleged violations of federal anti-discrimination laws and all this kinds of stuff around DEI. It essentially gave, uh, Trump an ability to-... to me- the government an ability to meddle in, in emissions. And so I just love your thought on that, uh, because I, you know, I, I know you, you, you know, you, you talk about the over, uh, use of DEI programs, et cetera. This seems like, uh, like a first th- The first, uh, th- uh, the founding fathers did not, like, were not worried about woke, they were worried about this. This is what they actually ... I mean, they're, they ... It's annoying, but it's different than what is happening here, which is a clear violation of the government meddling in private enterprise. But go ahead.

Scott Galloway 37:59 Well, we've never had a president that's more socialist. He demands a golden share to control a steel company. He's doing one-off deals with companies. And now he's decided, if you want to appoint Supreme Court justices that overturn, uh, race-based affirmative action, which has happened, I get it. You may agree or not agree with that decision, but it's meant to be a thoughtful, slow, grinding process that affects every university. But when you show up and start threatening, using the full weight of the DOJ and government to go after individual universities, and then just make these vague statements that you want to have input into less politically correct admissions, that's just not how you run a government. It's not how ... It's so- it's, it's socialism, and then it's kind of th- thought control, uh, at-

Kara Swisher 38:39 Exactly.

Scott Galloway 38:39 ... the places that are supposed to have the most freedom of thought. That is why they are so successful, is that we provide this ridiculous thing called tenure, which is very expensive, and, and occasionally someone says so- something so stupid they'd be fired anywhere else and we can't fire them, because the whole idea is, we built universities outside of the city center so people could say crazy shit like, "Well, maybe the world isn't flat," and not risk being burnt at the stake. And so when government starts coming in and telling the Admissions Department ... I th- Look, I do think that if you are going to provide millions of dollars in assistance and federally backed student loans, you do have some input, but that input should be systemic across all universities. I do believe that if you are not growing your freshman class faster than population growth, uh, and you have an endowment over a million dollars, you should lose your tax-free status, 'cause you're no longer a public servant, you're a hedge fund offering courses. And, and, and then I like the carrot idea. Offer, instead of student debt relief, offer, uh, capital investment if they, one, keep their tuition flat for 10 years, and two, increase their enrollments by 3%. What do you end up with? College in the '80s, where the admissions rates are double what they are now, and on an inflation-adjusted basis, tuition comes down by a third. And then force them to have non-four year degrees in things like nursing and specialty construction. So I am very much up for the federal government providing both sticks and carrots to, to reformat higher education such that it returns to its original mission of increasing the likelihood that middle class, unremarkable kids have a shot. I'm, I'm all about reform, and quite frankly, I'm all about showing up and saying, "Oh, we're not asking." But the way you do that is by passing laws.

Kara Swisher 40:19 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 40:19 And then everyone is subject-

Kara Swisher 40:21 That's correct.

Scott Galloway 40:21 ... to these laws. Not going after-

Kara Swisher 40:22 But they-

Scott Galloway 40:22 ... Columbia 'cause they-

Kara Swisher 40:23 That's the same thing.

Scott Galloway 40:23 ... pissed you off.

Kara Swisher 40:24 Let me tell you, with the Epstein things, they're not interested in the victims. They're not. That, that's no-

Scott Galloway 40:28 Yeah, that's not why they're there.

Kara Swisher 40:29 That's not why they're there. And you know why? Trump is not at these universities to make them better. If they made a mistake around not protecting Jewish students, fine them for that, like, and tell them they have to fix something. That's a very s- easy fix, right? And this, but this is something very different, and it's a, it's a, uh, the, the government should not be telling universities who to, who, who, what to, what to say. Just period. Period, period, period. And again, this, the ... I think you're e- exactly right. It should be based on, on finances versus race, maybe, and that will fix the problem anyway probably. Um, but it should certainly, um ... This is such an overreach, it's crazy. And go to Columbia. I went to Columbia, by the way, for graduate school, and I, uh, they will never see another ... I, I don't give them money anyway, so they'll never ever see m- money from me. It's, they're embar- they're an embarrassment to their, to their long and storied history. But it's an embarrassment for Columbia. And I hope Harvard and others, as much pressure as they're under, do- don't fall prey to this kind of nonsense, 'cause it's not ... It doesn't make these universities better to let more white people in (laughs) . It just doesn't. It just, it's not, it's not, it doesn't solve the problem that we have here. But they don't care. They don't care about the victims and Epstein, they don't care about ... They don't care about AI and having a really robust AI system. They just want to get what's, what's good for them.

Scott Galloway 41:46 Their instincts in some ways are correct. It's again the execution is wrong.

Kara Swisher 41:50 Not the government's business.

Scott Galloway 41:51 60 years ago, 12 Black people at Harvard, Princeton, and Ye- Yale combined, that was a problem, race-based affirmative action. Now, 60% of Harvard's freshman class identifies as nonwhite, but the problem is-

Kara Swisher 42:01 Rich.

Scott Galloway 42:02 ... 70% of those nonwhites come from upper income households.

Kara Swisher 42:05 Right.

Scott Galloway 42:05 Most, most Republicans and all Demograts- Democrats agree that there are some people who face such incredible headwinds through no fault of their own, that if the government gives them a hand up, okay, we're down with that. The question is, and all the argument is over, is who qualifies for the hand up? And Tyler Perry and Trevor Noah's kids should not get a hand up.

Kara Swisher 42:24 Right.

Scott Galloway 42:24 There has been, quite frankly, and this triggers people, too much advantage shoved into the kids of nonwhite parents. Those are the ones getting the most advantage right now. And a lot of good kids have been pushed out by foreign students and by, quite frankly, wealthy, wealthy nonwhites, and they've said, "Okay, uh, fine. Uh, w- we need to, we need to reconfigure affirmative action," as the University of California did, and they made it an adversity index. But this says to the white community who's poor and from single parents, "You got the same shot. We're gonna lift you up," and at the same time says, "Okay, okay, you know, uh, Tyler Perry's kid, sorry, you have the same advantages as a rich white kid."

Kara Swisher 43:02 Yeah, but except Scott, they never address the white kid rich kids, right? They never like go, "Oh, wait a minute." Like, it's always like, "Okay, now-"

Scott Galloway 43:08 Well, they're talking about doing away with legacies.

Kara Swisher 43:10 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 43:10 They're, the-

Kara Swisher 43:11 Yes.

Scott Galloway 43:11 They-

Kara Swisher 43:11 That's what I mean. Do away with legacies. But again, this is not the government's job. I'm sorry. It's just, they should not tell a y- university how to s- what to say, how to operate. If they, th- th- the one thing is if they didn't protect students, Jewish students, whoever the students that were m- uh, were attacked on campus, that's something the government might want to get involved in. But otherwise, help y- poor kids get into colleges, and may- and help figure out a way to get colleges to open up more. As you said, instead of being a private hedge fund that happens to give classes, figure out a way to get more people educated at, especially at the lower levels of the economic rung. That is a-

Scott Galloway 43:49 And, and there are-

Kara Swisher 43:49 ... brilliant idea.

Scott Galloway 43:49 ... models out there.

Kara Swisher 43:51 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 43:51 UW-Madison-

Kara Swisher 43:52 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 43:52 ... University of North Carolina, which prioritizes in-state applicants-

Kara Swisher 43:56 U-

Scott Galloway 43:56 ... these, some of these univers-

Kara Swisher 43:58 The University of California.

Scott Galloway 43:59 The University of California. They are doing their level best to let in as many kids as possible, such that they can go deeper and deeper into the barrel, because here's the bottom line. No individual or institution can be the arbiter of predicting greatness when a kid is 17 or 18. You just don't know. The key is ... And by the way, the kids getting in right now, if you're come from a 1% income earning household, you're 77 times more likely to gain admissions to an elite university. And here's the, the truth of it. The top 1%, they need college the least. They already show up well-educated. They already have contacts. They've already gone to camps. They've already gotten really good socialization. Dad is already super well-connected. It's the bottom 90 that need college the most. And anyway, uh, I, uh, the one place we do disagree here is I do believe if you're going to back, uh, you're gonna federally back student loans, you're gonna offer Pell Grants, you're gonna offer tax-free status, I think y-

Kara Swisher 44:49 They've cut Pell Grants, Scott.

Scott Galloway 44:51 ... you-

Kara Swisher 44:51 They don't care. I'm just saying. But go ahead.

Scott Galloway 44:53 No, I, I agree. What I'm saying though is that the federal government should have, should have, and nothing's for free, input into the policies. But it should be ... And the word we always use is systemic.

Kara Swisher 45:03 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 45:03 It should apply to everybody-

Kara Swisher 45:04 Right.

Scott Galloway 45:04 ... not one-offs based on where Baron did or did not get into college.

Kara Swisher 45:08 Right. No, I agree with you. I, I'm ... That's not the argument I'm making, is the government is, uh, should not tell colleges what to teach. Colleges can decide and then the market will decide of what they do.

Scott Galloway 45:19 Uh, it, it-

Kara Swisher 45:19 It's just they need to keep their dirty little hands out of it.

Scott Galloway 45:23 But this is-

Kara Swisher 45:23 Like, it's just-

Scott Galloway 45:24 Uh, uh, it gets complicated fast, Kara, because universities have taken in $14 billion from international ... from, from other governments. Four of the 14 billion has come from a nation with 300,000 people, Qatar. And what do you know? We have all of these Middle East st- studies departments who, quite frankly, aren't teaching that Israel has a right to exist. So, it does get pretty gray pretty fast. I think that's a ... It's a complicated issue, but universities have become-

Kara Swisher 45:49 The government should not be deciding this. I'm sorry. It's, it's First Amendment. They can ... If they ... Look. I, I, I, I'm not loving Qatar doing it. I didn't take money from Qatar when they offered it to them.

Scott Galloway 45:57 Well, they shouldn't be allowed to, they shouldn't be allowed to give money is the wh- how I would handle it.

Kara Swisher 46:00 Maybe so. That's a great solution. Great. That's great. That's a good idea. But here's the deal. Our government should be funding these educational institutions more and they don't. Instead, they give out handouts to the r- to the very wealthy AI people and, you know, just take from anyone else. Anyway, it's a long gamut thing. I just feel like Columbia, you should be embarrassed about yourselves, uh, by what you've done here. You've created a really bad precedent and I hope the others don't follow.

Kara Swisher 46:24 Um, all right. We have to take a quick break and we'll be back for predictions. Okay, Scott. Let's hear a prediction. I just wanna ... Uh, I ... There's one that I could throw out at you. President Trump met with Jeff Bezos at the White House last week in a meeting that lasted over an hour. What do you predict they were talking about?

Scott Galloway 46:38 I, I predict Trump wants in on the bachelor party. I don't-

Kara Swisher 46:41 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 46:42 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 46:43 Didn't that already happen?

Scott Galloway 46:44 Um, did it? I didn't hear about that. I would've been so good at that.

Kara Swisher 46:47 Would you have a post-marriage bachelor party? Lauren's not putting up with that shit.

Scott Galloway 46:50 Oh, yeah. It's called a mid-life crisis. It's called a second marriage and daddy getting together with his friends every six weeks. My prediction ... I already made my prediction. The fix is in. Someone has communicated to Ghislaine Maxwell that if, i- i- if she were to provide states' evidence or testimony that in any way reflects well on the president, that the president has a habit of pardoning people towards the end of his administration. And there's nothing like jail to convince you to lie and do whatever you need to do to get out of jail. Uh, I think the fix is in. Uh, the ... What we're gonna have is something resembling a ... It'll be a kangaroo court where they took testimony and pretend to take it seriously, pretend they're pursuing the truth. And all evidence from Ghislaine Maxwell will show that the president, while was a friend and, uh, showed errors in judgment, was not involved in any illicit or illegal activity. And then on the eve before Trump, uh, uh, you know, takes off and JD Vance is elected president or, or in my opinion, if I were to bet on anyone right now, and I might do this on polymarket, is someone you mentioned earlier. People vastly underestimate Governor Newsom. He is the only one pushing back right now. I believe if I had to bet on anyone, he would be the president. But anyways, whoever 30 days before the, the president, uh, the next president is inaugurated, she will be pardoned.

Kara Swisher 48:02 Uh-huh. Okay. Well, we'll see. Um, just so you know, two things. Ghislaine Maxwell's a li- is a liar. She faced two perjury charges stemming from these accusations. She lied under oaths around Epstein. They dropped those things because they, they had a ... She also had sex trafficking convictions she received in December 2021. So, let me just say, she's a sex trafficker. So, think about that, people, that he's gonna let off a sex, a convicted sex trafficker, uh, who is probably just as equally, um, uh, uh, uh, uh, e- e- she doesn't get as much attention, but she was equally culpable in what happened.

Scott Galloway 48:36 We need a special counsel with Matt Gaetz.

Kara Swisher 48:38 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 48:38 I mean, are we in a simulation here?

Kara Swisher 48:40 Uh, I know.

Scott Galloway 48:40 Literally, are we in a simulation?

Kara Swisher 48:41 I, I just am like, Ghislaine Maxwell's a terrible person and should die in prison. And, um, and she, uh, and again, the focus is off the people it should be on, which is these young women who are terrified now 'cause the president is trying to cover this up. And that's what the president's doing. He's trying to cover up a sex trafficking, uh, scandal, uh, that, that hi- where his name is involved. And so, uh, the, th- everybody ... Uh, all this stuff, whether you're gonna get Trump or not get Trump, just remember all these possibly a hundr- uh, po- hundreds of women they think were sexually abused here and that, that is lost in this entire thing.

Scott Galloway 49:16 Even, even worse. Hundreds of girls.

Kara Swisher 49:18 Girls. Exactly.

Scott Galloway 49:19 Uh, people have-

Kara Swisher 49:20 And-

Scott Galloway 49:20 People have correctly corrected me and said these are not underage women. They're girls.

Kara Swisher 49:24 That's correct. They're girls. And that is what we should be focusing on and we never have, and these, these p- they're women now. They're older. They, th- they're not here ... They, they have been traumatized and, and Trump is further traumatizing them with this fucking circus. And that's what we need to focus in on. That's my ... Uh, and we won't. My prediction is we won't because we don't value the lives of young women.... um, as we, much as we do, is rich, old, syphilitic. These are syphilitic men. Anyway, your prediction? Th- that she's gonna be the, th- th- that this is gonna happen. That she's gonna-

Scott Galloway 49:55 The fix is in.

Kara Swisher 49:56 ... fix is in.

Scott Galloway 49:56 She's gonna be pardoned 30 to 60 days before the end of his term. And, uh-

Kara Swisher 49:59 Tell everybody she's a liar and a sex trafficker, so take it that for the, for the thing. Anyway, okay. All right. But it won't come till the end, you're saying? Won't come till the end of the administration.

Scott Galloway 50:07 Well, I, uh, I, I, I think he, uh, that he'll create some distance to try and lower the volume on the outrage. But the fix was in, and this woman basically came out and lied and took the heat down. Yeah, what the fuck do you care? Pardon her. That... The fix is in.

Kara Swisher 50:22 It's repulsive.

Scott Galloway 50:22 The fix is in.

Kara Swisher 50:24 I lo- all I'll just say is remember the girls, of all of them.

Scott Galloway 50:26 And, usually-

Kara Swisher 50:26 Release Nancy Giles is fine, but remember the girls.

Scott Galloway 50:29 ... a real attorney general-

Kara Swisher 50:31 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 50:31 ... has a group of people who are doing nothing but trying to convince people to narc and impugn more powerful people. They work their way up the chain. This is the first Department of Justice that an attorney general who is trying to figure out a way to get people to flip and exonerate people more senior than them. This is, this is exactly what they are not supposed to do. They're supposed to be... Uh, the, uh, truth to power, th- the law affects everyone means that, quite frankly, you work your way up the food chain. Oh, you're a small-time dealer? This is how we're gonna give you one year in prison and not 10. You're gonna help us find the kingpin here and put him in prison. They realize that there's a... The key to law enforcement is that the more senior, more powerful, more mendacious you get in criminal activity, the bigger, the more important it is that that person get put away. Uh, y- you, you want to punish... You want a progressive... Just as we're supposed to have a progressive tax structure, which is part of our culture, we're supposed to have a progressive criminal, criminal prosecution structure (laughs) that says, "The more senior and powerful and the more damage you're doing, the more w- we try to find, uh, the truth on you." And this, this is entirely the opposite. It's, "Let's give her a pardon if she lowers the heat on the most powerful person in the world." Uh, I, I'm... I, I think this one is so obvious, it's like... (laughs)

Kara Swisher 51:46 I know that. But let, uh, I, again, I wanna stress. To Pam Bondi, these are hundreds of yon- uh, uh, of girls.

Scott Galloway 51:52 Oh, God, Kara. Do y- do you really th-

Kara Swisher 51:54 And you have... You horrible, shameful person to do this. And this is the woman who sexually abused them. Absolutely, 100% has been convicted of that.

Scott Galloway 52:03 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 52:03 You're a h- e- th- you know, they're... I'm gonna do a lesbian thing and quote Gladiator, 'cause it's my favorite movie. "The time for honoring yourself is at an end." The guy's... He's getting all the attention and the emperor's all pissed, and he, then the emperor tries to, you know, tell him about his, uh, his wife and child being killed in a terrible way, including rape, uh, uh, in this thing. And he turns around. Instead of hitting him, he goes, "The time for honoring yourself is at an end," so will soon be at an end. Such a great line. That's what I feel about these people. Anyway.

Scott Galloway 52:35 Yeah. I don't, uh, I, I don't...

Kara Swisher 52:37 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 52:37 I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say Attorney General Bondi's-

Kara Swisher 52:40 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 52:40 ... uh, ethics and morals around the president are sometimes a little bit patchy.

Kara Swisher 52:44 Patchy. Patchy.

Scott Galloway 52:45 Um.

Kara Swisher 52:46 You're a termagant.

Scott Galloway 52:47 "The time for honoring yourself." Wow.

Kara Swisher 52:48 She's a heinous termagant, is what she is. Anyway, uh, we wanna hear... I, and I'll blame the men just as much, but when a woman does it, it's even worse. These are girls, Pam. Girls, okay? Um, anyway, we wanna hear from you. Uh, send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever is on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, this week on Profgy Conversations that we talked about earlier this week, uh, Scott spoke with Governor Gretchen Whitmer, the 49th Governor of Michigan. Let's listen to a clip of big Gretch with Scott.

Narrator 53:23 Well, I'm gonna say something that's gonna be really depressing, and that is we're five months into a 48-month term. All right? And I understand the desire to fight, to fight everything. I get it. I feel that too. I feel the same desperation you just spoke to. And as a governor, I have a role. You know, I have an important role. My fellow governors and I do. We talk about this a lot. How do we band together and show Americans what democratic leaders do? It's by delivering in our states. It's by fighting the federal government when they're impacting our states. But we are not the counterpoint to the executive branch and the federal government. That's Congress. That's their whole job, is to be that counterpoint.

Kara Swisher 54:13 So you liked that interview, Scott. You did?

Scott Galloway 54:16 Yeah. Every time I, (sighs) every time I get to know, uh, uh, uh, some of these individuals on both sides of the aisle, I'm really impressed and heartened. And I think governor... I s- I think I said this on the last show. Governor, I, I do this no mercy, you know, every presidential candidate is calling one or both of us, and we're, we will interview between now and then, I think, any, any viable candidate, uh, at least on the Democratic side. And I do this no mercy, no malice review of the interview. And to the upside, uh, uh, she reeks of integrity and character. There's just... You just... She's just one of those people that, within a minute, you think, "This is a competent, decent woman."

Kara Swisher 54:52 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 54:52 And, uh, and also Michigan has a lot to be proud of. It, it, it's not, it's not an easy environment to have a manufacturing-based economy. She's managed to maintain economic growth, even if it's not stellar. The quality of life of Michigan, meaning affordability relative to salaries, is some of the best in the nation. She has a lot to run on. My downside was she's infected with the same rhetorical flourish and avoidance of hard policies that the Democrat that's gonna raise to the head of the polls is gonna be someone who comes out with crazy, bold solutions and says, "We're gonna lower Medicare eligibility by two years every year and socialize medicine. We are going to have an alternative minimum tax of 40%. We're gonna do away with the exemption on real estate, on, on trusts." Th- th- there is such an opportunity now (laughs) for someone to come out-

Kara Swisher 55:35 I agree.

Scott Galloway 55:35 ... with big fucking-

Kara Swisher 55:37 Big, bold, fucking ideas.

Scott Galloway 55:37 "We're moving Social Security back to 72 and we're means testing it. Sorry folks, it's time-"

Kara Swisher 55:42 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 55:42 "... to be the grownup in the room." What, what-

Kara Swisher 55:43 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 55:44 An alternative minimum tax on corporations who are paying their lowest taxes since 1939 of 40%.

Kara Swisher 55:48 Scott Galloway for president.

Scott Galloway 55:50 (laughs) But there's such a huge opportunity, and she wants to talk about, you know, in very big, bold, flowery speech, Americans, and-

Kara Swisher 55:58 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 55:59 ... and I'm like, "Okay, folks. O- Obama-"

Kara Swisher 56:01 What are you gonna do?

Scott Galloway 56:01 "... you're not gonna out-Obama Obama. We need someone who has real policies." And also, this is not the way the world should be. It's the way the world is. Democrats are going to elect and nominate a straight white male over six feet. We are highly looksist, uh, they are not gonna, for the third time, nominate a woman. No fucking way. They're not gonna nominate a gay man because they're worried about Blacks in South Carolina. They're not gonna, they're not going to nominate anyone under 5'11" 'cause they're w- they realize America is so goddamn looksist and sexist still. So, I don't, I think-

Kara Swisher 56:38 Vote Scott Galloway for president. I'm just saying, just pointing it out.

Scott Galloway 56:42 Yeah, the pro-

Kara Swisher 56:42 You fit all that criteria.

Scott Galloway 56:43 ... the, the problem is I wouldn't enjoy it and I wouldn't be very good at it.

Kara Swisher 56:45 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 56:46 Your and my job, Kara, is to, to bring attention-

Kara Swisher 56:49 Yeah, MTC, you're not gonna be president.

Scott Galloway 56:50 ... and oxygen to fantastic Democrats and help them get elected.

Kara Swisher 56:53 Yep, I agree.

Scott Galloway 56:53 Anyways, the, uh, uh, she is, she, I think, is on everyone's shortlist for VP-

Kara Swisher 56:59 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 56:59 ... because she is, she's, she would be, she's just a great foot soldier and she also-

Kara Swisher 57:04 Yeah, I would agree.

Scott Galloway 57:04 ... she has, she's hugely popular in a swing state.

Kara Swisher 57:06 She is. She's very, she's still very popular, despite everything. Um, let me just say, uh, uh, I think you're right about all, (laughs) all those things unfortunately. But, the, but, wh- w- whatever you think a- about Mundane, and there's lots of attacks on him recently, I think the reason he broke through was g- big ideas, whether you think they're right or not, they were big, interesting ideas.

Scott Galloway 57:25 He's saying something.

Kara Swisher 57:26 So, i- but they were kind of interesting.

Scott Galloway 57:28 (laughs) Right, uh, 100%.

Kara Swisher 57:28 They were, some of them were good, some of them were bad.

Scott Galloway 57:30 100%. 100%.

Kara Swisher 57:30 And he's good at social media and he's handsome and he's well-spoken. Like, to me, like-

Scott Galloway 57:36 I agree.

Kara Swisher 57:36 ... get away from whether you're ... Same thing with Abby Spanberger, by the way. Great speaker, great-looking, great, um, great communicator.

Scott Galloway 57:44 Yep.

Kara Swisher 57:44 Saying things of real meaning. Like-

Scott Galloway 57:47 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 57:47 ... what are you gonna do for the people of Virginia or what are you gonna do for the people of blank? And what are you gonna do for the people of the United States? You're 100% right. Scott, you should run for, for office. I can be your vice president. I could be fine too. I'd really run the show, so j- as we do here, um, a-

Scott Galloway 58:00 We will build a giant bearing wall!

Kara Swisher 58:04 (laughs) Bearing w-

Scott Galloway 58:04 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 58:04 We will build ... I like that. We'll build a bearing wall for America.

Scott Galloway 58:09 Oh my God, you could not be more lesbian.

Kara Swisher 58:11 Oh my God.

Scott Galloway 58:11 Bearing wall. That's your go-to metaphor.

Kara Swisher 58:12 I'm gonna go build one right now here in San Francisco.

Scott Galloway 58:14 That's your go-to metaphor.

Kara Swisher 58:15 I'm g- I'm gonna build one right here in San Francisco.

Scott Galloway 58:17 Oh my God.

Kara Swisher 58:18 And then I'm gonna have a kombucha. I hate kombucha. Anyway.

Scott Galloway 58:20 Do you wanna hear the most offensive thing I said at the Aspen Ideas-

Kara Swisher 58:23 What? Oh.

Scott Galloway 58:23 ... Festival? You know that.

Kara Swisher 58:24 I do, I'm sure I'll get a text. What?

Scott Galloway 58:25 They, there was some k- I was joking about masturbation and I said, "I've found the ultimate birth control." And that is, I get lotion, I have this lotion that I put on myself-

Kara Swisher 58:33 Oh no.

Scott Galloway 58:33 ... and if I put it on for more than two minutes, I don't need to have sex. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 58:36 Oh, my ...

Scott Galloway 58:36 And there was this awkward silence, and then a bunch of women in Aloe who like me la- laugh and go, and then looked around to see, can I laugh? And it would be like, "I'm laughing, you just can't tell."

Kara Swisher 58:44 Oh my God.

Scott Galloway 58:44 "I've had so much poison injected into my face."

Kara Swisher 58:47 The quiet laugh. Oh my ... Scott, Scott. Oh my God.

Scott Galloway 58:50 There we go.

Kara Swisher 58:50 You know what you need to do? This is the thing you need to do.

Scott Galloway 58:52 What's that?

Kara Swisher 58:53 Let me just give another recommendation. Go watch Hunting Wives. It's a les-

Scott Galloway 58:56 Hunting Wives?

Kara Swisher 58:58 It's a, Hunting Wives with Malin Akerman, um, and, and others. Um, it, it, it sh- uh, Malin Akerman, Brittany Snow. It's a, based on a book set in Texas. It's about a bunch of sort of rich East Texas ladies, and you think it's gonna be all about shopping and drinking, but it turns out to be a lesbian drama and like, and a murder mystery. And it is so good 'cause Malin Akerman and Brittany Snow are really hot and they have sex all day. But everyone's ma- all the women are making out in it. You should watch it.

Scott Galloway 59:22 I'll see it twice.

Kara Swisher 59:23 I, exactly. You need to watch.

Scott Galloway 59:24 I, I, yeah, I'll see it twice.

Kara Swisher 59:25 You're, you're gonna thank me n- next week. Anyway, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot, and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott, read us out.

Scott Galloway 59:35 Today's show was produced by Larry Name and Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin and Kevin Oliver. Ernie undertod engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Miss Avera and Dan Shallan. Nishant Croa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Bearing wall.

Kara Swisher 1:00:05 (laughs)