What is a Supercommunicator? (And Why Do We Want to Be One?) | Pivot

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Charles Duhigg is a…

   1. KSKara Swisher0:00

      Charles Duhigg is a writer at The New Yorker and author of the new book, Super Communicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection. Welcome, Charles. First of all, explain to us, what exactly is a super communicator? You write in this book, actually, came about when you realized you weren't communicating well in your marriage.

   2. CDCharles Duhigg0:16

      So, I had this problem where I'd come home from work and I would complain to my wife about my day, and she would give me this really good advice like, you know, "Take your boss out to lunch, get to know him better." And instead of being able to hear her, I would s- you know, get upset and say, "Why aren't you supporting me? You're supposed to be on my side." And then she would get upset because I was attacking her for giving me good advice. And, and I wanted to understand what was going on. And so I went out to researchers and I asked them, you know, "Why am I miscommunicating? I'm a professional communicator." And what they said is, "Well, look, we're living through a golden age of understanding communication, and one of the things that we know now is that we think of a discussion as being about one thing, but it's actually many different kinds of conversations." And in general, they fall, tend to fall into one of three buckets. There's practical conversations, where we're solving problems, we're making plans together. But then there's emotional conversations, where I tell you what I'm feeling, and I don't want you to solve my feelings. I want you to empathize. And then finally, there are social conversations about how we relate to each other. And if you're not having the r- same kind of conversation at the same moment, that's when you miscommunicate. I was having an emotional conversation, my wife was having a practical conversation, and so we couldn't really hear each other.

   3. KSKara Swisher1:17

      I know that, I know that. I'm often in practical c- I'm always like, "What's the solution?" I don't really care-

   4. CDCharles Duhigg1:22

      Yeah.

   5. KSKara Swisher1:22

      ... about the feeling as much as the solution, which is interesting. So, what, h- what do you see is the main reason, I mean, I, of course, it's hard to, like, say one reason that people struggle to communicate effectively, but talk about a few of them.

   6. CDCharles Duhigg1:33

      It, it's usually because, for a couple of reasons. First of all, that we don't, we're not having the same kind of conversation. Remember that, that wave of, like, tech CEOs doing layoffs over Zoom?

   7. KSKara Swisher1:43

      Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   8. CDCharles Duhigg1:44

      So, obviously when you're laying someone off, that's an emotional conversation.

   9. KSKara Swisher1:48

      Mm-hmm.

   10. CDCharles Duhigg1:48

       And yet, they were treating it as a practical conversation.

   11. KSKara Swisher1:51

       Mm-hmm.

   12. CDCharles Duhigg1:51

       "This is why we're laying you off, here's the benefits you're gonna get, this is what's best for the company." Somebody hearing that they're being, that they're losing their job, they don't wanna hear about the practicalities. They wanna hear someone who empathizes with them. And so, having the same kind of conversation at the same moment is critical. Another thing that's really important is asking more questions. Super communicators ask t- 10 to 20 times as many questions as the average person. And as reporters, we know this, right? The power of questions, and, and particularly asking deep questions, questions that ask me about my values or my beliefs or my experiences. Like, if you meet someone who's a doctor, instead of saying, "Where do you practice medicine," saying, "Oh, what made you decide to go to medical school?" That's an invitation for them to say something real. And then finally, the thing that super communicators do is they prove that they're listening. They ask follow-up questions that show they're paying attention. They might do this thing called looping for understanding, where they repeat back what they heard you say. And when we feel listened to, that's when we become more likely to listen in return.

   13. KSKara Swisher2:47

       Oh, that's an interesting technique. So that's, so, what you've just said to me is... No, um, no, um, uh-

   14. CDCharles Duhigg2:53

       (laughs) You're very good at it.

   15. KSKara Swisher2:54

       Uh, yeah, no, I'm not.

   16. SGScott Galloway2:55

       Do you want me to explain it to you, Carol?

   17. KSKara Swisher2:56

       Yeah, yeah. Let's, please. Let's-

   18. CDCharles Duhigg2:57

       (laughs)

   19. SGScott Galloway2:57

       Sorry.

   20. KSKara Swisher2:57

       Um, Scott, go for it, Mr. Communications.

   21. SGScott Galloway3:01

       Uh, my, my, it's, you, you've sort of outlined, my dad said, you know, m- my dad said this to me when he, uh, I was much younger, and I didn't register how important it was or how many subtleties to it, and it sounds like it's a lot of what your themes. He always used to say, "Communication is with the listener." Can you talk about, uh, something I didn't figure out till I was much older is the power of silence. Just looking someone in the eye and make sure that you know that, that you are not waiting to speak, that you're, you're listening to them. Can you talk about the power of silence and sort of acknowledging the point, if you will?

   22. CDCharles Duhigg3:38

       Absolutely. Absolutely. Creating those spaces for silence is critical. And, and what's interesting is that speaking is such a cognitively intense activity that oftentimes, we don't really pay attention to how people are acting when we're speaking. Right? And so the way that we create that silence or we create that proof of listening is when they stop talking, what we do. For instance, think about how powerful it is if, if you just said something profound and someone says, "Wow, that gives me a lot of, a lot to think about. Let me take a second just to think about what you just said." In that moment, what you're really doing is you're saying, "I am listening to you. I promise I'm listening to you." And then if you ask a follow-up question, or if you say, "He- here's what I hear you saying, and tell me if I'm getting this wrong," what we're doing is we're proving that we're listening, 'cause you're exactly right. Many people, p- particularly in a hard conversation, a conflict conversation, we suspect in the back of our head, "This person isn't listening. They're waiting their turn to speak." And we have to prove that that's not what's happening. And when we do, it transforms a conversation.

   23. KSKara Swisher4:38

       So, so, w- one other thing you just talked about, referenced zoom communication. A lot of s- communication happens on text or video or social media, which is a very different level of commu- which is not about listening in any way. Some of the time it is, uh, but usually it isn't. Um, how does technology play into what we're writing about? Because often, when Scott and I get into beefs, it's over a text. You know what I mean? Like, I'm thinking, um, which he takes the wrong way.

   24. SGScott Galloway5:03

       No, one of us gets-

   25. KSKara Swisher5:04

       No.

   26. SGScott Galloway5:04

       ... into a beef.

   27. CDCharles Duhigg5:04

       (laughs)

   28. SGScott Galloway5:04

       The other just sits there and goes, "What the fuck is she texting me for at 3:00 AM?"

   29. KSKara Swisher5:08

       No. But then when we talk-

   30. SGScott Galloway5:09

       I don't respond, Charles.
2. 15:00 – 15:22

   Yeah. …

   1. KSKara Swisher15:00

      changes dynamics constantly where we're at.

   2. CDCharles Duhigg15:02

      Yeah.

   3. KSKara Swisher15:03

      Rather than just rush past them, um, and he actually looks at them, and I think it's one of those really, I was like, "Wow, that was ..." It's, it works. It works.

   4. CDCharles Duhigg15:11

      It's powerful.

   5. KSKara Swisher15:11

      It is, very much so. Anyway, Charles Duhigg, Super Communicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection is out now.

Episode duration: 15:22