EVERY SPOKEN WORD
130 min read · 26,442 words- 0:00 – 3:39
Intro Chat
- SGScott Galloway
... and I also occasionally, if I have both a gummy and, um, a couple of Maker's in ginger-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... I put in my AirPods and I dance to '80s music-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... without my, without my shirt on.
- KSKara Swisher
(instrumental music) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and I am in San Francisco, and was on a flight last night, uh, having to read about Doge working all weekend taking over the government.
- SGScott Galloway
Good to see you, Kara. Uh, wh-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) I'm so tired.
- SGScott Galloway
Are you? Why are you back in San Francisco?
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, I have a bunch of things to do here. I'm speaking in front of a group from Columbia, uh, University Journalism school. Um-
- SGScott Galloway
Uh-huh.
- KSKara Swisher
... I've got some appointments. I've got, uh, a whole bunch of stuff that I'm doing here in San Francisco. I like to come and visit the place f- every now and then to find out what's going on.
- SGScott Galloway
You love it there.
- KSKara Swisher
I do. I do. I don't have a lot of time here this time, but I am, uh, I'm excited to be here. Anyway, it was a long weekend. Listen, uh, this whole Doge thing has got me off to a bad start. Um-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
... but, uh, but I am glad I'm in San Francisco, that's for sure. How are you doing?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I'm good. I'm about to get on a plane for Orlando.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, nice.
- SGScott Galloway
(sighs) Yeah. Um, I have a speaking gig at Walt Disney World.
- KSKara Swisher
What?
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, yeah. Uh, don't ask. I don't know. I don't know. I just go where they send me.
- KSKara Swisher
Why?
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. I'm s-
- KSKara Swisher
Which place?
- SGScott Galloway
What's that?
- KSKara Swisher
Why? Who is at Walt Disney World?
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, they do a lot of conventions there, I guess.
- KSKara Swisher
Uh-huh.
- SGScott Galloway
I don't know. Uh, uh, foreigners? I don't know. I... Foreign...
- KSKara Swisher
Uh-huh.
- 3:39 – 8:12
D.C. Plane Crash Coverage and Blame Game
- KSKara Swisher
tragedy, um, of people dying, and I get it. Um, for a lot of people it's been turned into a political thing, and maybe we did a little bit more than we should have, because we said we weren't going to. Um, so I wanted to bring that up. I don't know how you feel about that, but I, I wanted to, uh, say, uh, these families were finally, um, they're finally finding everybody there. Uh, it's still, they still have not found everybody, uh, in the Potomac. But reading these stories this week, um, of, of, of these families were- was, uh, really heartbreaking, I found it. I found it very heartbreaking.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, it's im- Uh, look, it's, uh, uh, it's impossible not... That's an impossible, I don't want to call it accusation, but it's an impossible comment-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... to not land.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Because if you knew somebody on one of those flights, you're devastated, right? They're-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... losing a loved one unexpected- unexpectedly, and in such a harsh-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... spectacle is... You know, it- you're n- I can't imagine any of those people, including their families, are ever gonna be the same again.
- KSKara Swisher
No.
- SGScott Galloway
You know, my, my view is, uh, taking a step back, I mean, it was sort of like when the wildfires came.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
The- I think- or at least the point I was trying to make, I won't put words in your mouth, is that rather than, I would argue, empathy for the people on, uh, you know, who lost their homes or the people who lost their lives-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... the left says it's climate change, the right says it's DEI. In this instance, the right mostly. The left was mostly, uh, quiet. The right was, "This is DEI." And it's just a shame that a lot of that empathy gets, i- it gets some bullshit nods from people-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... thoughts and prayers-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... and they immediately go to, "How can I politicize this?"
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And our point was, or n- not your- our point. My point is the following. The FAA is arguably one of the most successful government agencies in history. (laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And as someone who's invested in aviation, the error rate you have to test to-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... is ten to the negative eighth with- to get a, a, a, a civil aviation aircraft certified to fly passengers. I mean, in the ability- at any moment there's something like 7,000 planes in the air-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... in our airspace. And the fact that they're able to minimize or keep the number of these horrific tragedies, it is more dangerous to walk up your stairs-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... to get on a plane.
- 8:12 – 23:25
Trump’s Trade War
- KSKara Swisher
Trump set off a firestorm over the weekend, slapping 25% tariffs on goods from Canada and Mexico, and 10% on China's products, set to go into effect this week. We'll see. What do you think, Scott?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, just on a human level, for the first time in my life, it- and this is an odd feeling, and it's- it's a mix of shame and surprise, I'm rooting for Canada, not the US.
- KSKara Swisher
Can I just make a quick note? The Journal had a very good story this morning that one of the reasons is he's mad about how he had to open the Berlin factory, that they have too many days off, that they take too much work, uh, from sick leave, I guess, and that he doesn't like the workers, and he was ins- i- i- infuriated with it. Again, a lot of this early stuff started with the factories, um, in- in California. He got mad of it, at COVID. It's where it began. Um, so it was very interesting, the- the links between the Berlin factory and his increased activism. But go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, let's- let's break them down. So, let's start with the tariffs, and let's do a strong man or steel man.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
His argument is that, uh, countries, uh, that America's been too sta- soft, and that America should command the space it occupies-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... and charge more and create a revenue source or access to what is the largest economy in the world, and that our trade agreements have been asymmetric, and that is they have, uh, we have been taken advantage of. First, my personal experience having literally done business in almost every Western nation-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... and even negotiated, uh, agreements between private companies and world leaders, America flexes its power every fucking day (laughs) .
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, the notion that somehow we're always on the wrong end of deals, when you show up, uh, almost every trade agreement, we have 700 military bases in 80 countries.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
China has one in Djibouti.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
U- u- and you think we just ask for those? You think we just said, "Hey, wouldn't it be a great idea to have a military ba-" We flex our power every day. So first, the base notion that somehow we've been-
- KSKara Swisher
We've been taken advantage of.
- SGScott Galloway
... getting taken advantage of (laughs) is literally comical. Now, let's talk about the tariffs themselves. You could make the argument, all right, with China, uh, the argument would be, and I'm- I'm trying to call balls and strikes here. A lot of the tariffs initially imposed in the first Trump administration were actually kept in place by Biden. This takes it to such a deeper, weirder level, because, uh, for example, with Canada, 25%, it- it, this will just immediately raise prices for both nations. They, the definition of stupid is you hurt yourself and you hurt others. In addition, (sighs) you don't think China might get a military base at Colombia at some point? You don't think Can- Canada, they- they, the Canadian Embassy in Tehran, those people risked their lives to try and covertly get American hostages out of Iran.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
They risked their lives, because Canada sees themselves as friends, brothers, siblings of America. They followed us into Afghanistan. They followed us into Iraq. We have Major League Baseball-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... National Basketball Association teams-
- KSKara Swisher
He's called an ally. Yeah, it's an ally.
- SGScott Galloway
... in Canada.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
It's more than an ally.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
They are, they are with us. And Canada right now can't even answer the question, what do you want from us?
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
What's the end game here? Why didn't you call us, your good friend, and say, "This is our concern, and this is what we're trying to achieve"? I don't even think they know. They can't even answer the question, what is his end game here in this bullshit that, well, the, we've gotta reduce the level of fentanyl. You can sort of make that argument against China and Mexico. You can't make it against Canada.
- 23:25 – 29:24
Government Websites Disappear
- SGScott Galloway
or the...
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, we will. Yes, let's go, let's go to the sites. Let's go to the sites.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I've always maintained... (laughs) So for example, there was an HIV transmission calculator. And I've maintained that actually I don't think Trump is, uh, homophobic. I'm not even sure it's fair to say that their policies are misogynistic. What I think their policies are... I don't know what the right term is here. I do- I don't think this is a war on women. I don't think it's a war on gay, gay people. I think it's a war on poor people. And if you have... The CDC had an HIV transmission calculator.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And if you're a young man discovering your sexuality and you live with a single mother, you don't have a lot of money, maybe you dropped out of high school, it's important that these kids have this information about, about... I think it's called-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... PrEP and PEP and what certain types of sex result in transmission of HIV. It's important that if you have an, an STD and you find out that you're pregnant-... what that means and what treatment are available. And all those sites have been taken down. Now, who does that impact? Would it impact my son? No. It impacts poor kids. It impacts poor women. And i- i- eh, this is the, it's the definition of censorship and purposely r-regressing and taking us back. It feels like it's not... I don't think it's an, uh, a war on women or LGBTQ.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, come on. Stop. God.
- SGScott Galloway
It's a war on poor women.
- KSKara Swisher
I'm sorry. It is. It's a, it's a war on lots of things. The stuff they're taking down across the government is, it's not just poor people. H- they're trying to, like, abrogate, eh, eh, to eliminate other, anyone else that has... Remember, they're taking down, like, they have, um, Black History Month or Gay Pride Month.
- SGScott Galloway
Who does it impact?
- KSKara Swisher
Well, that kinda stuff, it's the same message. It's, it's, i- i- if you read Project 2025, it's not just... Of course, it, uh, uh, impacts poor people, but it also impacts the idea of any kind of identity beyond, you know-
- SGScott Galloway
That's fair.
- KSKara Swisher
... veterans need to veteran. Um, you know-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
... CDC needs to CDC. Don't talk about anything else. Um, it's, it's an idea, it's an idea that has driven them crazy, which is that we should celebrate diversity, I guess. That's, you know, it's a, it's a broader obsession that they have with this issue. A- and that's how you led to sort of the FAA thing, which is, it had to be, uh, diversity, equity, inclusion that caused these crashes, even though in, we haven't had a crash in a very, very long time, w- when those things were in place. Um, uh, which probably is a tragic accident. But, you know, that's really what it is, and, and that's what happens in life. But, um, but I think it's a, it's an, it's an atta- it's a bigger i- ideological attack o- of things they're trying to eliminate in schools. Um, y- uh, let me just say, my kid's in a public school in DC. I am very nervous they're gonna start meddling with the education system. She came home and was talk... She said, "Oh, I learned the word diverse today." And I said, "What does that mean to you?" And she goes, "Oh, that we're all different." And she wasn't using race. She was like, "Oh, we're all different people from each other. And, um, it's good to be, you know, to have differences, and it's good to have things in common." It was a very, like, you know, chalk, vanilla, strawberry way of thinking about it. But I was like, "Oh, they're gonna take that out of her education, just the word," which was frightening in a lot of ways, you know? I-
- SGScott Galloway
I think it's a bigger issue, uh, you know, taking the word diversity out of preschool-
- KSKara Swisher
No, I know.
- SGScott Galloway
... or whatever.
- KSKara Swisher
I, I think they're gonna do-
- SGScott Galloway
But let me finish.
- KSKara Swisher
... a lot of meddling-
- SGScott Galloway
I, I, I-
- KSKara Swisher
... in education.
- SGScott Galloway
... I think in terms of actual damage on the ground, not letting... having information around vaccines, uh, for new mothers who may not have access to, you know, formal education.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, not having access to information around STDs, not having access to information around HIV transmission, not having access to who you can content, c- contact if you think your landlord is unfairly abusing you and won't give you your deposit back. I, I generally believe America, even under Trump, that rich people continue to have more rights-
- KSKara Swisher
Yes.
- SGScott Galloway
... at the expense of poor people. And I think that's the basic fulcrum and the injustice in our society right now. I think, I think the majority of the people wh- who are in special interest groups, as long as you have money, I think you're fine. I, I just, I, I, I... This to me is just a, a war on poor people, and they give a... It's, it's... I, I agree with you, it's ideologically driven.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- 29:24 – 35:53
Big Tech Earnings
- KSKara Swisher
for its most recent quarter, but the numbers show a slight dip in year-over-year iPhone revenue. Probably not a surprise. Showing Apple Intelligence did not boost sales that they had hoped, although it introduced quar- sort of at the end of the quarter. Microsoft reported a 12% year-over-year rise in revenue, although its cloud business is slowing. And Meta beat expectations with revenue rising 21% in the last quarter. Really big performance from Meta. Tesla mostly missed expectations on earnings and revenue with $25 billion in quarterly revenue. Automotive revenue fell 8%. Um, these earnings were announced during the initial DeepSeek frenzy last week. Um, eh, there's questions about the AI spending plans. Microsoft has ear- has earmarked $80 billion for AI this year, while Meta has pledged as much as 65 billion. Um, let's talk about... Uh, obviously, tariffs probably may or may not affect them. And, uh, at the same time, they've pledged, uh, fealty to Trump in one way or another. Um, and now there's things to throw in, as Meta is reportedly in talks to reincorporate in Texas or another state, according to The Wall Street Journal. Uh, out of Delaware. Uh, it has to do with certain lawsuits, uh, that, uh, Mark Zuckerberg is facing, I believe. Um, but Texas seems to be the place where they all have... is their safe space. Uh, thoughts about the earnings?
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, like they continue to do, I mean all of 'em, it just went from sort of better, you know, good, better, best. The, I don't think you've seen any, any chill around earnings. What I, the thing I find most interesting is that (sighs) all of 'em, uh, have essentially said, "We're going big at, um, AI," except for Apple in terms of cap ex, and no one is thinking that Apple is the dumb one right now. Apple said, "We're gonna take sort of a wait and see approach, and we're gonna leverage other people's technology and investments," and Apple just continues to, you know, sort of over-perform. And then the other one is, uh, Meta, using their kind of AI ad technology, they continue to serve more ads, more targeted, more effective. It's almost like what Tim Cook did to Meta was similar to what we did to China around AI, and that is we forced, or Tim Cook with their opt-in, kind of trying to kneecap, uh, Meta, actually inspired them to figure out a workaround where now their ad stack is, is much more robust and much more AI driven. And, uh, just as we held kind of sophisticated chap technolo- chip technology from, uh, China, which forced them to come up with a workaround that might in fact disrupt American AI, uh, Apple sorta is... No one is criticizing Apple now for not making these enormous, uh, announcements about just these staggering investments. But I, I, you know-
- KSKara Swisher
Do you see any effect of the Deep Seek? That came at the end of the quarter obviously, and it did shake up the, shake up the stock market and people worried about the spending.
- SGScott Galloway
This is my, my thesis right now, and is that similar... that AI may be like... I mean, there's three layers to AI, s- loosely speaking, buckets. There's the infrastructural layer, the NVIDIA guys. There's the LLMs, the Anthropics, the OpenAIs, Perplexity in there, and then there's the application layer, an Expedier, an Airbnb or whoever comes up with AI to do more sophisticated things or make their services better, they're the customer layer. I wonder if this is gonna end up being like the airline industry and the PC industry, where there's a massive increase in economic value and productivity, but no one company is able to capture the majority of revenues similar to the way people are banking that Microsoft, OpenAI and NVIDIA are gonna be able to capture it. Now, Intel captured a ton of revenue and shareholder value because they were the brains inside of PCs. I was on the board of Gateway Computer, do you remember that?
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, of course, Ted Wait, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
We... Okay, get this. PCs changed the world.
- KSKara Swisher
You were on that board? What?
- SGScott Galloway
I was on the board of Gateway Computer, I know.
- KSKara Swisher
You're kidding. No wonder.
- SGScott Galloway
Talk about the weakest flex in the world.
- KSKara Swisher
No wonder what happened to it. (laughs) No sorry, sorry that I said that.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. Anyways, so we were the second-largest-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... manufacturer of computers. You think about it, if someone had said 100 years ago, PCs... or 50 years, "PCS, uh, uh, these super computers that cost the government billions of dollars, we're gonna be able to put one on every desk." PC manufacturers, Dell for a little while but not anyone else, Le- Lenovo, ASUS, Compaq, Packard Bell, remember all these companies? N- none of 'em got anywhere, maybe with the exception of Dell, in a, in a product that revolutionized the world. The airline industry-
- KSKara Swisher
It's true. That's a really good analogy. S- God, you've, you come up with a good one.
- SGScott Galloway
Every once in a while, right? Yes.
- KSKara Swisher
You really do. I hadn't thought about that, but go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I'm not done, I'm not done.
- KSKara Swisher
All right.
- SGScott Galloway
So, uh, uh, the airline industry-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
I'm about to get on a plane-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... and in eight and a half hours, I'm gonna be in fucking Disney World-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... for like... Now granted, I'm gonna spend a shit ton of money 'cause I'm a narcissist, but I could do it for $400. (laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
I could skirt along the surface of the atmosphere at eight tenths the speed of sound for almost no money, almost no money. W- as opposed to getting scurvy or having to eat my niece in, i- through the passage of, of the-
- KSKara Swisher
Please don't do that.
- SGScott Galloway
... the Andes or the Rockies-
- 35:53 – 44:29
OpenAI’s New Funding Round
- KSKara Swisher
investing between 15 and 25 billion. There's s- there was several good Masayoshi Son, uh, things. I'd forgotten how much success he's had too even though he's had so many disasters, he's like one or the other, it's fascinating. Um, I looked at Lionel Barber's book called Gambling Man which, uh, was really quite good, I recommend it. Um, OpenAI was valued at $157, uh, uh, uh, billion in October. Uh, meanwhile, Sam is giving competition some credit on Reddit in an AMA this weekend when asked if OpenAI would show users all of the thinking steps. Um, Altman said yes, and give credit to R1 also, also known as Deep Seek when asked if he would consider a more open source approach like Meta's LLaMA. He said the company was discussing doing so and he feels we've been on the wrong side of history. Uh, uh, w- do you... What do you think of him admitting the company needs to make changes, and of course this fundraising round? He, he certainly moves fast, I'll tell you that.
- SGScott Galloway
I have never heard a bell signaling the top like the fucking gong of Masayoshi-san saying he's gonna invest 50 billion-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... in OpenAI-
- KSKara Swisher
15. 15.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, I, I read that it was gonna be as much as 45. It's 15?
- KSKara Swisher
N- no, four- 15 and 25 billion. There's a $40 billion fundraising and he's gonna be 15 or 25 billion of it.
- SGScott Galloway
Okay.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
So, 15 of a $40 billion round.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
At a valuation, I read, that is greater than the valuation on ByteDance right now.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
At somewhere between 300 and 350 billion.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yes, that's correct.
- SGScott Galloway
So, when Masayoshi-san says, "We need to be crazy," he's living up to it.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
I think this will be... I think this will go down as arguably in terms of gross tonnage-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... gross capital lost, I think this is, uh, uh, uh, I think this is just so fucking ridiculous.
- KSKara Swisher
Not a fan. You're thinking WeWork here versus one of the others where he's made a ton of money.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, okay, this isn't WeWork.
- KSKara Swisher
There's a couple he's made some real killings.
- SGScott Galloway
WeWork... WeWork was renting desk space.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
It wasn't a tech company. This is a tech company. There's a non-zero probability that given how smart Sam is, given this unbelievable technology, which I am using 50 times a day-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... they will figure out a way... I, I don't see how it right now, given the fact that the Chinese appear to have come up with something very robust for a fraction or less, the lack of barriers of entry, the regulatory issues, I don't see how this is, today-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... one of the 15 most valuable companies in the world. Now, what they're saying is for Masayoshi-san to get his limited partners the return they expect with the risk here-
- 44:29 – 54:03
Elon’s DOGE Gains Access to Payment System
- KSKara Swisher
the US Treasury Department. Obviously, they're trying to close down USAID. He said he's doing it on instructions from President Trump, and he's doing what he said. They're saying that their stuff w- uh, uh, obviously, uh, the concern is privacy and, uh, sensitive and classified information being accessed by a bunch of kids. That's a worry. That's sort of been a, been a narrative around over the weekend. Obviously, the way they did it was sort of in the middle of the weekend, they crashed in, all kinds of people left and tried to stop them. Um, it's quite a dramatic thing. And then Congress has no ability to stop him, um, in some way. Uh, it, it is concerning that the world's, uh, richest man has a- and a private citizen that has contracts with, massive contracts with the federal government has this much access, and now seemingly has the power to close down entire, uh, departments. They think it's a, obviously I'm doing a, uh, on with some of the experts of what he did at Twitter, um, and is doing here. Um, but it's, it i- it is one way to take over a government, um, is to be doing this. And of course, they're arguing that they're trying to save money and it's the only way to do it, but they're flinging all kinds of, uh, uh, unsupportable allegations about different things. But of course, that chaos is part of the plan here. Any thoughts on this?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, i- i- when you have the world's richest man who can deny people there's, you know, get in the way of their Medicare, Social Security, veterans benefits unilaterally based on his crew that shows up, I mean, it's the ultimate, we complain about regulatory capture and private capture. We, richest man in the world does now have access to who gets money from the federal government without the approval or the oversight of our elected representatives.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
So, uh, uh, a- again, there's just so much crazy shit going on that we never thought we would see, that people don't seem to be... they're, they're just, they're, you know, it's triage right now. There's so many incoming projectiles at everybody that they don't know how to respond and absorb this.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
But he is now kind of the puppet master. And I, the notion that he can go into a website and turn off payments for social services or government-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... services, or shut off foreign aid, uh, at his sole discretion, um, it's just, it's-
- KSKara Swisher
Well, he says he's d- he's doing it on the president's orders. So go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, g- that's fair, because he's appointed by the president and the president can remove him. But m- my impression is based on the, the tariffs, the market's reaction to taking a stock up that basically, okay, you have one guy who the president has entrusted to make these decisions real time.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And it's, uh, you know, we, th- the, one of the downsides or the upsides of a bureaucracy and what people would argue correctly is sometimes an inefficient government, is that we don't let any... You know, power corrupts, and absolute power absolutely corrupts. And what we have here is absolute power. And what do you know? It's the world's wealthiest man. And it goes back to the same thing. There has to be a check on this American experience where we just have decided that money translates to not only power, but to rights. And we are transferring more and more wealth, which subsequently means more and more power, and probably most upsetting, more and more rights at the expense of poor people. And what's gonna happen to every company that isn't owned-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... by Musk? And I look at these tariffs and I'm like, "This is brilliant." He's figured out a way-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... to create a tariff that pretty much exempts Tesla. Everyone's like, "Well, Tesla sells a lot of cars into China." No, all the ch-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... cars being sold in China are manufactured in China.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, they'll not be affected.
- SGScott Galloway
They're not subject to tariffs.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Anyways, it's, it's, I find it very distressing-
- KSKara Swisher
There, there are-
- SGScott Galloway
... and very un-American.
- KSKara Swisher
There, there are ver- very little. It's interesting to see whether you saw those protests in Germany or you're not seeing them in this country, whether... But Musk's, uh, favorables are quite low, really quite low considering most, a lot of people look up to him. Uh, which is interesting, because it does look, especially with this, this crew he's got around him, it feels like a movie someone made up, right? Some of this stuff. And one of, they're all kids, they're all kids of some sort that are around him, or, or people that work for, they're all his people that are coming in and demanding to see everything, demanding their, their, you know, they're like the, they're like the evil genius bar essentially that's going in to all these places. And they did take over what was essentially the genius bar for the government, the US Digital Service, and they've renamed it the US Doge Service. Um, and that gives them access. Th- this, these were already set up, these, these offices in every federal, uh, federal government, uh, facility and every department.Um, and, and, you know, some of them, some of them l- literally were, was just a colle- was just a camp counselor. And one kid did this astonishing computing around decoding, um, these ancient scrolls, brilliant people who had brilliant, uh, coding skills and brilliant computer skills. Um, but it's the sort of team... One guy is called Big Balls, that's his nickname, which I don't, I doubt he has them. It'd be... That's what his nickname is? I bet they're small balls. Um, it's just, it... The whole thing feels so bizarre. And people are freaking out because I don't think many people can do anything, right? What do you do when he does this? Um, there... It doesn't feel like Congress has a handle on it. The Democrats do not control Congress. Um, it feels like it's in plain sight, just this is how they're gonna go through every federal agency and do this unless they're stopped by courts. That's, you know... Which is interesting. Now, Ezra Klein was making a really interesting, uh, argument, which I, I like. I'm gonna read from it. Um, "There's a reason Trump is doing all this through executive orders rather than submitting these directives as legislation to pass through Congress. A more powerful executive could persuade Congress to eliminate the spending he opposes or reform the civil service, uh, to give himself powers of hiring and firing that he seeks. To write those changes into legislation would make them more durable and allow him to argue their merits in a more strategic way. Even if Trump's aim is to bring the servil- civil service to heel, to get... to rid it of his opponents and to turn it to his own ends, he would be better off arguing that he's simply trying to bring high-performance management culture to, uh, Silicon Valley to the federal government. You never want a power grab to look like a power grab." I thought (laughs) that was exactly o- on point. I don't know what you think. He's calling it weak.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I'm pre-
- KSKara Swisher
This is a weak...
- SGScott Galloway
I'm pretty...
- KSKara Swisher
... flex.
- SGScott Galloway
I think almost every life lesson can be extracted from one of the seasons of Game of Thrones.
- 54:03 – 1:05:02
Wins and Fails
- KSKara Swisher
let's hear some wins and fails.
- SGScott Galloway
It strikes me that you need a better strategy than showing up at churches and schools and workplaces to- for these, uh, immigration raids.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, I don't... I just find it so ironic that, that, uh, uh, the agencies charged with locating people... I... Okay, starting with, starting with people who've been, uh, uh, detained for a crime, I get it.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
But it just strikes me as so ironic that, that they have determined the place to find these undocumented workers is at work, church, or school.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Doesn't that make them the most American of us? (laughs) I mean-
- KSKara Swisher
Right. Hard workers.
- SGScott Galloway
It's just so... It's so unro- it's so ironic. But it appears that we've decided that if we want to find undocumented workers, we should go to a workplace, or they're sending their kids to school, or they're going to worship? It, it just so... I find it so, so telling that maybe, maybe... I mean, I, I, I, I'm not about... I'm not against...... deporting people. But I find it illuminating that, okay, we didn't wake up one day and just find out that 17% of people on construction work sites were undocumented workers. And what I don't think we've come to grips with, in terms of an honest conversation around this, is one, I do belie- I don't think you can have open borders. But two, the reason why we have let this go so far is that the most... If the secret sauce of America is immigration, the most profitable part of that secret sauce has been illegal immigration (laughs) , and we don't wanna have an honest conversation about it, because they come in, they take care of grandma, they pick our crops, they build our houses, and then when the work dries up, they leave without taking Social Security. They pay Social Security taxes, but they never stick around for Social Security. They actually don't lean on our social services 'cause they're worried about being deported, and have you seen what's happened at construction sites across America? They're empty. People aren't showing up. So, I wonder if this strategy is just of, of trying to shock and awe and intimidate, is very short-sighted and not good for the economy, and not going to accomplish what we need to accomplish in terms of having a sane immigration strategy. That's my, you know... Anyways, I, I, I, that, that, call it two fails in a row here. The other f- real fail, again, under the auspices of flooding the zone with mendacious shit, you know, uh, a foreign aid freeze? I think we spent about $70 billion, or about $200 per citizen, and this is some of the things we do. You know, in Sudan, you know, the US supports 600 and, uh, you know... We support 634 soup kitchens that feed almost a million people. In Thail- Thailand and Myanamar, refugee hospitals funded by the US are closing their doors. Patients with tuberculosis and life-threatening conditions are being carried away on makeshift stretchers. In Africa, the famine in Sudan is worse. I mean, uh, the Democratic Republic of Congo, where US aid supported four and a half million displaced people, verge of eradi- we were on the verge of eradicating diseases like malaria and malnutrition because of private and public coordination. In Cambodia, where the US was close to eliminating malaria, officials now fear the disease is making-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... a comeback. It, it (overlapping)
- KSKara Swisher
Scott, "It's not helping Americans. It's not helping Americans." That's the stupidest argument.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but I, I, I think-
- KSKara Swisher
It does help Americans.
- SGScott Galloway
I think the majority of Republicans-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... when if you sat them down and you said, "For 200 bucks a year, this is the good we're gonna do around the world, and this is the goodwill it's gonna create, and these are the diseases we're gonna eradicate, and this is how we're gonna find refugees who were displaced in wars a, a, a shot at surviving," I think the majority of the people go, "Here's $200. Right on."
- KSKara Swisher
Yep, yep.
- SGScott Galloway
These are-
- KSKara Swisher
I, I, I, I can't even. It's the cruelest. It's the cruelest and s- small m- most petty and small-minded of cuts. I- there's so many cruel and p- Just, like cutting, like we talked about last week, cutting the, um, the security details of people who work for this country. It's so petty, it's so small, and it shows you the shiveal (ph) little heart that we have at work here. Like that-
- SGScott Galloway
But, but let's put the morality aside. So you decide, "Look, I'm a- I want that $200 to go to American kids, full stop." Okay, I understand the argument. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. That 200 bucks, that void we're leaving, Russia and China are gonna step into that void. They're going to find all- people willing to be allies-
- KSKara Swisher
That's right.
- SGScott Galloway
... and who will fund groups. W- we have this sense of security, this cold comfort, that there aren't people out there who would come for us, kill us, and take our shit away, and one of the reasons they don't is because they can't, because generally speaking, the vast majority of nations and the vast majority of people around the world might find us obnoxious, they might find us gluttonous, they might find us arrogant, but they think at the end of the day, we're trying to do the right thing, that we're the people who are funding that hospital, that when there's refugees, when there are homeless people and there are maternity wards being shelled in the, in Ukraine, that American charities show up, when-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, w- we're seen as the good guys.
- KSKara Swisher
Yep, we're not the good guys.
- SGScott Galloway
And that pays enormous, that pays enormous dividends that we don't, we don't recognize, because the homeland hasn't been attacked since September 11th. So even if you think, even if you don't make the moral argument or you don't accept the moral argument-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... just s- from a security standpoint-
- 1:05:02 – 1:06:53
Preview of Kara's Interview with Ben Stiller
- KSKara Swisher
universe, I talked to Ben Stiller about Severance on On. Let's listen to a clip.
- NANarrator
There's so many different ideas of what, you know, Severance could be a metaphor for.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- NANarrator
And I think we all do sever to a certain extent-
- KSKara Swisher
Sure.
- NANarrator
... when we, you know, check out, if you have a drink or, you know, you take a gummy or you, you know, uh, watch a TV show or if you go on your phone. I mean, we all find ways to cope with the everyday sort of, you know, torrent of stuff that's coming at us in life.
- KSKara Swisher
Right. It's also, I go to hardware stores and browse.
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
Um, when... I do, (laughs) I love them. What do you do to sever, Scott? I- we already know gummies, breath work. What?
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, I hang out with my dogs. Sometimes I take a gummy. I like to write. I, I just... The evening is my, is my alone kind of peace, peace time. You know, I think it's important to have, uh-
- KSKara Swisher
Sever.
- SGScott Galloway
... mindfulness and, and just do your own thing. And I also occasionally, if I have both a gummy and, um, a couple Makers in Ginger, I put in my AirPods and I dance to '80s music-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... without my, without my shirt on. I dance in the mirror like a 15... what I imagine-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh my God.
- SGScott Galloway
... like a, a gay 15-year-old teenager would do.
- KSKara Swisher
I so want to see that. I so want to see that.
- SGScott Galloway
Ugh.
- KSKara Swisher
Can you put a camera in your house so I can watch that, and then I will sever watching that? That would make me happy.
- SGScott Galloway
It would literally... It would probably, it would probably decrease the amount of sex people that... people have that night by like, everyone would just be so freaked out and so unattracted to everybody.
- KSKara Swisher
I want a video where I can watch it over and over.
- SGScott Galloway
DJs and Tom Petty.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Little bit of-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... little bit of edible CBD and sativa with the Makers in Ginger, "Daddy's got the moves. Hello ladies."
- KSKara Swisher
All right.
- SGScott Galloway
"Do you believe in love at first sight or should I walk by again?" Boom. (upbeat music)
Episode duration: 1:06:53
Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript
Transcript of episode GQaBLQ6BKXE
Get more out of YouTube videos.
High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.
Add to Chrome