PivotWhy Canada’s Ronald Reagan Tariff Ad Was So Effective | Pivot
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
135 min read · 27,404 words- 0:00 – 2:39
Intro
- SGScott Galloway
Well, wasn't it ... What's happening with TikTok?
- KSKara Swisher
Well, they said it's consummated or gonna consummate it or whatever. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and I'm still in Korea. Hi, Scott.
- SGScott Galloway
Are you enjoying yourself?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I am. I'm not a big traveler. I'm not a big traveler. I like-
- SGScott Galloway
What?
- KSKara Swisher
... home.
- SGScott Galloway
You're not a big traveler? You travel all the time.
- KSKara Swisher
I, I know, but I like home, if I had to pick, if that makes sense. Does that make sense?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, that's ... Um, you're ... I assume you're not ... It would be somewhat distressing if, if Amanda was listening and you said, "Yeah, I just ... I like to be away from home."
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) Well, she's been great.
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
She's been with the kids.
- SGScott Galloway
Whether that's true or not, that's the right thing to say.
- KSKara Swisher
I miss home. I miss home, wherever it happens to be.
- SGScott Galloway
I can't stand my kids, and then about, uh, an hour into the drive to the airport, I start missing them. I can't. I-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, really? I can-
- SGScott Galloway
I-
- KSKara Swisher
... stand my kids. I miss them a lot. I do. I do.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, you're a much better parent than me.
- KSKara Swisher
I am? Well, that's kind of-
- SGScott Galloway
You get my point. I'm, I'm-
- KSKara Swisher
Do you want me to parent your kids, if you'd like? No. Your mom ... Your wife is great.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I could use the help.
- KSKara Swisher
You're ... You know, Trump's coming here, and I'm leaving. That's, that's one of my favorite parts of this whole-
- SGScott Galloway
He's going to Korea?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Are you coming here on your ... Let me just say for everybody, Scott's book comes out what day? November ...
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, it comes out November ... I think it's November the 4th. Is that right?
- KSKara Swisher
Y- Notes on Being a Woman. Yes. No. (laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
There you go.
- KSKara Swisher
No, it's, it's ... (laughs) That's your next book.
- 2:39 – 5:52
Tech Bros Get Face-Lifts
- SGScott Galloway
I did.
- KSKara Swisher
Did you hear about this? The tech bros are all getting plastic surgery. They're following in your footsteps. Um, some surgeons have seen five-fold increases in demand for men in tech in the last five years, not a surprise, according to an article in The Wall Street Journal. I don't think it's just men in tech, but apparently it ... And so there's a lot of them. Procedures, mini face-lifts, neck lifts, that deep-plane thing, eyelid lifts, to stay looking youthful in a competitive job market. I, I just ... I didn't have any work done, but it's ... You know, I'm not surprised. Do you think? Are you surprised? It seems silly.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, no. I mean, I get ... I've had ... I get Botox, and I'm sure at some point I'll go under the knife. I think that ... Look, we're in a, we're in an ageless culture. I think some of that is good. (laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, and people wanna feel youthful. And I think the standards and the benchmark, there are so many people out there now ... I, I don't know if you've noticed. Have you noticed this? It seems like every young person is hot. Uh, between working out and skin treatments, in New York all the young people are hot. I think the tunnels have some sort of X-ray or security posts where, if you're not hot, you're not allowed into New York. Um, but my sense is the, the aesthetic and the benchmark has gotten so-
- KSKara Swisher
Especially for men, right? For men. Which I think w- it's co- it's common, more common here or Brazil or a different pla- or B- Brazil, I think. Um, but it, it ... I've noticed a lot younger and a lot ... Just the way they are in some other countries. Um, a lot younger and a lot more men.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, that's the bigge- that's the growth part, is that women have always been ... Look, men are disproportionately and unfairly evaluated on their economic viability, women on their aesthetics. So there's always been an emphasis, and women have always spent a disproportionate amount of time and money on aesthetics. What's ... The, the delta or the change or the uplift in surgery is mostly coming from men because a lot of ... It used to be men had to retire at 65, and now they say, "No, I wanna come back and bend the knee to Donald Trump and fuck up Disney, and I'm 74, but I wanna look 73, so I get surgery." So guys everywhere are getting ... If you have ... The bottom line is, the, the surgical techniques have gotten much better. And, and if ... Why look 65 if you can look 57?
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And if you have money, and it's not that big-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... a risk any longer, it ... I ... The question I have is, why wouldn't you? And some people-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... say, "Well, I don't care." Do, do you really? Do you n- really not care what you look like?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
So-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Those neck things work. Men look better with the neck ... I hate to say it, but ... I'm not a big ... I, I don't like a lot of surgery. Al- although they ... You know, it's, it's gotten better and better. I mean, the, that deep-plane thing. But, um, the thing around the neck with the guys I thought-
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
... was really interesting, is, um, you know, they look kind of jowly and then they don't. I have-
- SGScott Galloway
It's the lower face lift.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. I have less jowls, I was told by the skin people. I don't have as many jowls.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. No, you're not-
- KSKara Swisher
Jowls are coming, of course. Or the, the, the thing around your eyes, sort of the eye sockets and the double folds and this and that, um, or the triple folds and the e- the heavy eyelids.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
They were interesting.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
Anyway, good. Well, I didn't have any while I was here, but maybe you could when you come. Anyway-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I'm a-
- KSKara Swisher
Speak-
- SGScott Galloway
I'm-
- KSKara Swisher
Go ahead.
- 5:52 – 13:56
Reagan Tariff Ad
- KSKara Swisher
speaking of, uh, of, of Trump being here, he is ex- actually coming Thursday. He's been in Asia striking all manner of deals, which we'll talk about in a second. Um-... he, he, uh, he's, he's pulling tariffs off, it looks like, or, or putting striking deals, but, uh, he said he's putting a 10% tariff on imports from Canada after already canceling trade talks all because of a TV ad that had audio, accurate audio of Ronald Reagan criticizing tariffs. Trump called the ad, which was sponsored by the government of Ontario, that would be Doug Ford, a fraud and a hostile act. The spot features excerpts from a 1987 Ronald Reagan radio address on foreign trade. The audio is authentic, though it is slightly different order from the original speech. Um, but it's what he said. Um, he, the pr- the Reagan Presidential Foundation said the ad misrepresents Reagan's words but does not explain what was misrepresented 'cause I went back and, and listened to the original, and it's, uh, this, it was the intent, but so I guess they shouldn't have rearranged it. But let's listen to some of this ad.
- NANarrator
When someone says, "Let's impose tariffs on foreign imports," it looks like they're doing the patriotic thing by protecting American products and jobs. And sometimes, for a short while, it works, but only for a short time. But over the long run, such trade barriers hurt every American worker and consumer. High tariffs inevitably lead to retaliation by foreign countries and the triggering of fierce trade wars. Then the worst happens. Markets shrink and collapse, businesses and industries shut down, and millions of people lose their jobs.
- KSKara Swisher
I'll tell you, it was nice hearing a president who actually spoke in full sentences. Um, a Republican one. Uh, O- Ontario's premier pulled the ad, but, uh, it did air in major US markets over the weekend, including during the World Series. Um, talk about this from a marketing... This is this Doug Ford who's s- this conservative who was somewhat pro-Trump, as I recall, and now is sort of, like, s- you know, smacking them around up there in, up north. Um, talk about from a marketing, not so much the essence because this is what Reagan thought, actually, but, um, but about doing this kind of things and why Trump is reacting like this.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, look, I, I think Canada's never looked stronger. It's just strange to be rooting for the Blue Jays when they're playing my home team, the Dodgers. Uh, it's just, Canada... The US strategy looks performative, faux masculinity, sclerotic. Either they're dictating trade policy off of commercials that antagonize the president. It's just... And Canada, I believe, uh, is our biggest trading partner. Some people would say it depends on, uh, Canada, it should be Mexico.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
But, I mean, one of the biggest problems we have in the United States is housing.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And unfortunately, because of NIMBYism and incumbents who control the government who are fond of regulations to made it, make it harder for the entrants to buy a home, and so we've let homes go from 290 to 410, and the, you know, two of the largest inputs are gypsum drywall, which comes from Mexico, and lumber, which comes from Canada. So we're gonna make homes more expensive unnecessarily, and Canada just looks more consistent and unafraid, and, uh, I think this has been, I think this has bolstered the brand of Canada. I think they will end up... This will absolutely impact their economy negatively for three or four years. They will figure out different trade routes. It's no accident.
- KSKara Swisher
Which they are trying, of course, which-
- SGScott Galloway
Carney's headed to Asia as we speak.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And there's no shortage of, of other export nations that'll say, "You know what? We have really good products here too, and we're gonna do it at zero tariff, and let's strengthen the relationship between Canada and Asia and Latin America." And then those relationships will be really, um, hard to undo.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And the next administration, and I'm trying to manifest this, is, uh, gonna have to go on essentially a 48-month apology tour, and regardless of how effective that is, there's no way we're gonna be able to compensate for the destruction to these 80-year trade alliances that has taken place over the last, uh, you know, 10 months. This is just... No one likes to be insulted or have economic warfare, and why this is just so incredibly stupid is, I'll just use an example. The Kentucky bourbon industry is basically gonna be wiped off the map if they're not careful.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
So they have stopped buying Jack Daniel's. Do you know the margins? The margins on lumber are probably like 10 to 30%. The operating margins are probably high single digits.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Those companies don't trade at big multiples, the public-traded lumber companies, if there are any, whereas alcohol commands 90 points of margin. The majority of restaurants-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... th- th- the kind of the ugly secret of restaurants is they try to break even on the food, and they make all their money on the alcohol.
- KSKara Swisher
On the alcohol, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Because they'll charge you 14 bucks for a Maker's Mark and ginger ale, and it costs them about 60 cents. And so that's where they make all their margin, and we have some of the best alcohol brands in the world, and when we import them into Canada, uh, and they say no, it's not tit-for-tat. If we reduce our exports by a dollar by declaring trade war, and they reduce, their exports go down a dollar, it's not dollar-for-dollar because our margins on our products tend to be higher.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. One of the things is interesting to me is, you know, from a marketing perspective, Reagan used to be the gold standard of Republicans, right? And, uh, you know, we're showing our age. We remember the age of Reagan, which wasn't as great as people are now making it out to be, although some of these speeches are terrific, especially the immigration one, which was one of his last speeches. Um, but, you know, the, the, the marketing strength of Ronald Reagan is over, mo- Mr. Morning in America, which is very different from Make America Great Again, right? In terms of that was some marketing expertise, the Reagan administration. But it doesn't work, I guess, except to irritate Donald Trump.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, he was an actor-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... and he was very handsome, and regardless of some of his policies, I mean, I, I like Ronald Reagan, and it's easy to play Monday morning quarterback, but he refused to use the word AIDS. And in a period where... A- anyways, we have a tendency to decide people in history are either very, very good or very, very bad, and-
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
... because history is sort of a crude blunt instrument.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, if you think about...... him as the, the ... There are no more Republicans. Or at least-
- 13:56 – 21:09
China Dealmaking
- KSKara Swisher
tariff front though, US and Chinese officials have reached yet another framework of a deal to avoid 100% tariffs that Trump threatened to impose. Uh, Taco Trump. Uh, Treasury Secretary Scott Besson, who really has sort of lost it, seems to be undignified now, also said on Face the Nation that Trump and Xi are set to finalize a TikTok deal this week. Let's listen, uh, to, uh, how he talked about this.
- SGScott Galloway
We reached a final deal on TikTok. Uh, we'd reached one in Madrid, and I believe that as of today, all the details are ironed out, and that will be, uh, for the two leaders to, uh, consummate that transaction on Thursday in Korea.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm, I'm getting the hell out of Korea before consummation. Let's, let's hope not. (laughs) Um, so there's that happening, which I think is something you talked about n- needing to happen, the Chinese, uh, to, to, to come to terms with China.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but I don't, I don't know what that means. What, what-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... if they have a commercial that pisses him off on the way over? I don't-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And that 100% tariff and ... Um, I think that they, uh, you know, China definitely has its own problems. I mean, what, what you have to, when, when you're establishing or trying to understand a battle and doing our game theory, you've got to look at the strengths they have that you don't have. And China has, uh, the advantages of an authoritarian government where the autocrat has established power for the next 10, 20, 30 years. He's consolidated power. They have, uh, the, the CCP, I don't know if it's unpopular or popular, but I don't think it's very unpopular. The economy there has struggles. But the Chinese d- the Chinese, to a certain extent, have the same advantage that the Russians have in Ukraine, and that is their willingness to endure and inflict pain on their populous for long-term interests.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Americans, if, you know, if AWS goes out and Netflix goes down, the whole nation i- is freaks out. China is absolutely willing to put companies out of business. It's willing to decrease their prosperity, but is not gonna be pushed around by America. And also, we have a tendency to think, uh, this, this administration anyways, that it's the biggest customer at the, you know, rolling up to the bar. We're the third-largest, uh, trading partner. The Association for Southeast Na- uh, Asian Nations is their largest trading partner. The second-largest, they do more trade with the EU than they do with the US.
- KSKara Swisher
Hm.
- SGScott Galloway
And they have already vastly decreased the percentage of trade going to the US. So he shows up, and again, this is just a, such a common error in judgment and in strategy, he shows up thinking he has cards he doesn't have. And Americans, if, if inflation pops to 5 or 6% here, Americans are gonna freak out. They could go to 15% in China and ... The Chinese government has killed tens of millions of its own people or let them starve for what they perceive to be national interests.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
So to think that he can show up and muscle them around-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... he is totally misc- miscalculating and misappraising his, his adversary over there. So I don't trust him nor any of his team to get a deal done or, you know, quote unquote, "a framework."
- KSKara Swisher
So we'll wait and see, right. A frame- framework of a deal, yet another.
- SGScott Galloway
What's happening with TikTok? I, I mean-
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
... I don't know-
- KSKara Swisher
Well, they said it's consummated or gonna consummate it or whatever. Th- they're gonna fuck each other. I don't know with, why he used that word. But presumably, it's going to Larry Ellison, as is everything. It's apparently in the media, uh, this is the most important element of Ellison's, uh, me- uh, burgeoning media empire, of course. Um, uh, you know, what, what's gonna happen here. But, um, I don't know what it means. I guess they're just decided, "Ah, give it to them. What's the difference?" Right? Like, "We don't need this, and w- if we can get everything else." I mean, there was an, an interesting ... I read a lot of the analysis of this. And basically what they've decided to do, as every other leader, including the leader of Japan, is to flatter him, to compliment him, and then get what you want, right? Essentially. And, and which is kind of depressing. Like, they've just figured, figured him out pretty easily. And, uh, we'll see. The Chinese, you're absolutely right, are in it for the long haul. So we'll see what they have to say. Um, uh, you know, it'll be an int- uh, uh, the TikTok thing is what I'll be paying attention to, but we'll see if they, um, do something, what I think Trump is trying to do. It's so interesting because presidents all start out locally and end up-... in foreign places, doing these, these trips. And I think Trump is very comfortable acting like he's big BMOC across the world, essentially. And so these, th- these leaders have figured out a way to, to please him in a... It's kind of sad. It's like pleasing an old man, like let's pet him and this and that. So we'll see. We'll see what happens here. I, uh, here's my prediction. He's gonna go up to the DMZ and go visit his friend, um, uh, in North Korea. So we'll see. He's so close, I can't imagine he would... You know, he keeps talking about him. He, he talks about him in a nicer way than he talks about other Americans, which is really kind of depressing given he's a dictator and not just an autocrat. Even worse than that.
- SGScott Galloway
Those were his role models.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
He's very much about strength and-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... again, he's conflates, he conflates strength with coarseness and cruelty and authoritarianism, and-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... that's not... It, it's just a terrible, it's a terrible, um... And the problem is, he's been successful in the short term at it.
- KSKara Swisher
Sure.
- SGScott Galloway
He's won the presidency twice.
- 21:09 – 28:57
Binance Founder Pardoned
- KSKara Swisher
Scott, we're back. President Trump has pardoned Changpeng Zhao, better known as CZ, the founder of the crypto exchange Binance. CZ pleaded guilty in 2023 to violating anti-money laundering laws and, uh, served four months in a federal prison while Binance paid $4.3 billion to settle with the Justice Department. CZ has been working on a pardon for months. There seems to be a playbook here with the Trump people, hiring lobbyists with ties to Trump and making podcast ex- uh, appearances praising the president. Binance is also a key backer of the Trump family's, this is the key one, crypto venture, World Liberty Financial, and helped launch its stablecoin earlier this year. In a post on X, CZ said he was grateful to Trump and pledged to help make America the capital of crypto. I assume Sam Bankman-Fried is next. What do you think of this? Because we've been talking a lot about how this focus on crypto with his family, um, sort of larding itself over in, um, money and, uh, just money, really.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I think it's important to understand why CZ was incarcerated.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And he was incarcerated 'cause Binance was found guilty of laundering money. And that sounds, that sounds somewhat innocuous, but according to the Department of Treasury, Binance failed to report the following. Transactions associated with terrorist groups, including-
- KSKara Swisher
Al-Qaeda.
- SGScott Galloway
... Al-Qaeda, ISIS, Hamas-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, millions of dollars in ransomware transactions. Binance is one of the largest receivers of ransomware proceeds. Transactions associated with child sexual abuse materials. So, people hear about sextortion and think that is the most heinous crime ever. Well, folks, there's a technical, technological infrastructure behind it, and money, money laundering with funds that can't be tracked is part of it. And then transactions associated with drugs, fraud, and other illegal contraband. His, his official charges were, again, around money laundering, and he'd served four mon- four months, and-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... Binance was barred from operating in the US. But here's what they did. Binance received a $2 billion investment from the Abu Dhabi investment firm MGX, and then Binance decided to accept the investment via World Liberty Financial USD-1 stablecoin, which, by the way, the majority stake is still connected, in World Liberty Financial USD-1, is still connected to the financial wealth and buttressing the financial wealth of the Trump, of Trump and his family, which owns 38% of World Liberty Financial. So put another way, "Make me richer, and I will let the person that a judge and jury and our institutions decided to incarcerate because he was facilitating transactions to terrorists and people engaged in child sex exploitation, I'm letting that person out if you agree to make me and my family richer."
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And because this feels very circular and complicated and we're so busy watching stupid fucking videos of the construction project at the, uh, at Pennsylvania Avenue, we take our eye off the ball. There's going to be more kids who are going to be in scams, send naked pictures of themselves, and then be extorted and then potentially engage in self-harm because the people on the other end can find a means of transacting these payments and this exploitation.
- KSKara Swisher
You know, if, if you're watching a Bond movie, CZ is the one he ends up-... golfing in the end. Like, he's the money-laundering, you know, mogul, essentially. And so, uh, we, this is, was a criminal act, this guy. And, uh, uh-
- SGScott Galloway
But we're bombing fishing boats.
- KSKara Swisher
M- most people in crypto think this too, by the way, FYI. So it's sort of a, a g- you know, he's, they've just decided crypto good, no matter what. And it's like saying banking good, or whatever. There's l- there's all kinds of bankers that are, um, culpable in these kind of things, by the way. It's not just limited to, to crypto. Um, but, uh, this is just s- (laughs) this was such a straight-line, um, grift. It's just, like, absolutely out in the open, uh, you know, the c- the everything's out in the open. What do I mean? E- e- even if, you know, I, I agree with you, every, with all the hand-waving around the, the White House thing, which I'll talk about later. But, um, i- i- it's really, uh, this one really deserves more attention, especially for what, uh, what, what this company did, you know? This company did. And I assume Sam Bankman-Fried is next, who is comparatively minor compared to this guy, right? This, he was, that was just your basic, "Uh, I made a mess. I didn't realize that that was his excuse." But I, there, there's a whole way to get a pardon from Trump.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but he doesn't have the power right now. FTX doesn't have the platform or the power to make the Trumps rich. This is, to a certain extent, there's sort of, I don't wanna call it low-calorie corruption. But when Eric goes over and says, "Build a hotel and give me better financing terms and finance it," somebody still has to build the hotel.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
There is some risk. It's corruption. But what they found is, if we're gonna be corrupt, let's just figure out a way to pump up...
- KSKara Swisher
Just go to the top, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... a synthetic currency that has no value or underlying utility.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And then we don't even have to report when we sell it, and nobody has to operate it, and we don't even have to pre- pretend that we know how to be in the hospitality business. We don't have to build it.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
We just get people to basically funnel money into it, massively inflate the market, we sell. Nobody even knows we've sold. And boom, this is the, like, most elegant, clean, frictionless form of corruption. So they're like, they're like, "Okay, Nancy Pelosi, that does insider trading, but you have to report those trades. Okay, Trump, who gets a 747. We actually see the 747. He's gotta fly it around. He's gotta justify it." No, this is easier. Nobody even really... there's no records of this.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, they, as far as we know, we think they've made $3 to $5 billion off these crypto scams, but it's even hard to tell how much money they made. We don't know how to connect it to... We know when the Qatari government says, "Give us, give us NATO-like protection" after giving the president a $400 million plane, we can connect the dots. But when he s- launches a meme coin and someone calls him and says, "FYI, tomorrow I'm gonna buy $1 billion or $100 million-"
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
"... worth of Trump coin, which will take the price up, and if you wanna sell some, that's your business, Mr. President."
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
"But i- in addition, would you mind not shipping Tomahawk missiles to the, to Ukraine for a while?"
- 28:57 – 35:12
Tech Leaders Lobby Trump On SF
- KSKara Swisher
troubled me was the tech and business leaders, um, are getting credit for coordinated effort to stop Trump from sending troops to San Francisco. Mayor Daniel Lurie reportedly worked with Sam Altman, Jensen Huang, uh, Marc Benioff, and others to get the president to reconsider. Trump acknowledged the lobbying in a Truth Social post saying he got calls from "friends of mine" that decided not to surge San Francisco, as he put it. I find this repulsive, this strategy, is that, you know, I'm not s- you know, I, I, I've been in touch with Benioff recently about a- this whole, the whole thing with the, with the troops. And, uh, he knows what I think (laughs) , um, which is that he should have never called for them. But, you n- none of you get a thank you for telling a bully not to do something that's stupid, right? I don't want my democracy to be run because these guys can call him up or go to a dinner or give him money. Um, but y- you know, this, this was the wrong thing to do for all these cities, including San Francisco. And the fact that the only way it gets saved is these guys call him. Like, what in the world? No one's making decisions based on e- the right thing to do. It's based on these incredibly powerful, the people who have access, and then the regular Americans don't have access to make their argument one way or the other. But this is, this is a, I find this truly disturbing. Um, and, you know, uh, none of them has said, "Uh, you should thank me, Kara," 'cause I'd be like, "Go fuck yourself." Like, how dare you, that this is the way things are done. I just, I find it, uh, s- something quite vague, just disturbing about this, this, uh, this is how, this is how it's done, done, done, as they say, and, um...... uh, K-pop demon hunters kind of thing.
- SGScott Galloway
But Mayor L-Lurie trying to enlist local business people to lobby the President to-
- KSKara Swisher
He has to.
- SGScott Galloway
... to not send in, send in the National Guard and create disruption and terrorize local residents. A-kudos to him. I think that's the right thing to do.
- KSKara Swisher
I agree.
- SGScott Galloway
The problem is they're operating in a context that's illegal and non-American, and that is-
- KSKara Swisher
Right. That's right.
- SGScott Galloway
Barry Goldwater said this. He said, "We're, we're placing too much power in the office of the presidency." The whole point of a democracy is you have a diffuse sense of power such that there's checks and balances, and that unfortunately, you, you don't go as fast, but it prevents the tragedy of the commons. And when y- y- if you're gonna send in the National Guard into cities, there needs to be some sort of oversight or there needs to be some sort of legal justification or systemic laws that say, "This is when the National Guard can be sent into a city and what its mission is." Not, "Well, I don't like the mayor here," or, "I don't like the governor here," or, "Epstein's starting to creep back into the news. I need to (laughs) launch the National Guard or pulse the National Guard into a city." This is ... I mean, it's just so ... I, I can't imagine, and I don't know how much of it I'm convinced now that, uh, you know, and I've said this before, we're just gonna be so angry at the mind control that these algorithms have over us-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... and we don't even realize how much. Th- the most upsetting things I see, I think ... Is this true? ... is those, is all of that footage of, of ICE agents.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Right.
- SGScott Galloway
I just find it ... The idea that these guys are in masks-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
The idea ... There's a basic principle that is so core to our democracy and what is wonderful about America, and that is we target and ideally reward beh- ... We target and reward people based on their behavior, not their identity.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And that is, we say, "Okay, w- i- i- if you're a gay woman and you're great at what you do and you take risks, you can make a lot of money and have a nice life here." And we aren't gonna start rounding up people or asking them, "Are you born here?" which the ICE agents are doing, because they're Brown-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... when they're on their way inside, on their way inside to, uh, you know, Kroger's.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
So-
- KSKara Swisher
Every one of these agents seems like a brute, right? I feel, I feel like I'm in some, like, Steven Seagal movie with bad people. Like, (laughs) y- you know the way they're talking to people and how the, the masks and the ... They look like they've had way too many steroids, every one of them. Like, they f- it feels so villainous, and it's either villainous or you gotta be a rich guy to get through, and it feel- it does feel un-American. When I heard that-
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, yeah. It's, it's totally kind of-
- KSKara Swisher
... that Sam Altman had to call him to call him off, that's, that's our line of defense now because it's not go- ugh. I just was like, "This is ridiculous." It's just like-
- SGScott Galloway
Well, it kinda goes to the same thing now where because of the government shutdown, rather than saying, "Okay, there's a government shutdown. You need to negotiate with a co-equal branch of government," it's like, "No, I'll just get my rich friend to pay the, the military and the people I like in the government." Th- this is not how you're supposed to run a government where individuals ... where the president gets to decide, you know, who in the government gets paid and who doesn't, and he can call someone and say, "Hey, I look really bad here. Can you give me $100 million? And by the way," wink, wink, "I'll make it up to you with a series of laws that transfer wealth from small and medium-sized businesses and your competitors to you." It might even not impact the economy that much in the short run because the economy churns on, but what it does over the long term is a lot of people don't want to invest here, a lot of people don't want to immigrate here, a lot of people don't want to start businesses because they're worried that they, that they're not gonna be t- protected by the rule of fair play and law. I don't think Americans realize how many really talented people come here and how much capital comes here because they feel that there is a rule of fair play here.
- KSKara Swisher
That's what it is, rule of fair play.
- SGScott Galloway
I met a guy. I met this Russian kid who came over here and he'd started one of those home delivery companies, and he made a bunch of money. He was a successful entrepreneur in Russia. He had a m- wonderful life. I said, "Why'd you move here?" He said, "You live in fear in Russia that someone you don't even know makes a call and your business is done the next day, and you don't even know who made the call."
- KSKara Swisher
I know.
- SGScott Galloway
And that's what's ... Effectively, we're headed that way.
- KSKara Swisher
Right. I know. I just ... For some reason, this just stuck in my craw. Thank God Benioff didn't text me like, "You wanna say thank you?" I'd be like, "Go fuck yourself." I, I don't mean that, Mark, but honestly, seriously, this is not the way it should be done. Um, speaking of things that are, are, uh, int- uh, another thing that c- uh, speaking of robots, which I was just m- I'm, I'm seeing a lot of robot companies here, by the way. Um, Amazon
- 35:12 – 46:20
Amazon Automation
- KSKara Swisher
executives believe the company can replace more than half a million warehouse jobs with robots, 'cause this is where it's heading. I've ... I'll, I'll go into it in a second, with robots over the next several years according to internal documents obtained by the New York Times. Documents show, uh, Amazon's robotics team has an ultimate goal to automate 75% of its operations. I bet it's even higher. They reveal Amazon is planning to manage public backlash by promoting a, quote, "good corporate citizen image," participating in community events like parades and toy drives. Executives also discussed ditching words like automation and AI, instead using advanced technology and cobots, collaborative robots. Amazon says the documents viewed at the Times were incomplete and do not reflect its overall hiring strategy. Um, let me tell you, years and years ago, and I was looking for the pictures, I was gonna show it to some people here, um, after Amazon bought Kiva which was, uh, I thought a critical purchase at the time. It was a, it was a logistics, it was a robotic, uh, it moved, uh, things around the factory and they ... Amazon for some reason invited me in to see the factory, and, um, I, I went to see it and watched these Kiva, I think they were Kiva-powered robots moving stuff around, and they had people in the factory but a lot of it was automated, obviously, and it's pretty cool when you see them put on labels or put on whatever. It was a quite o- automated factory, and I, uh, I guess publicly I said, "They're never gonna ha- they're gonna ... They're moving towards no people in these warehouses." This was about 10 years ago. You could see the e- they're so smart, you could see what they were doing, right? Um, and, and I remember, uh, one of the Kennedys who was representing... uh, Massachusetts, I can't remember which one it was, was saying, "Oh, they're gonna put an Amazon warehouse in my district." I'm like, "They're not gonna have people in it." Like ... And I remember Amazon being, calling me and saying, "Don't be saying that." I'm like, "But it ... that's what's ... it seems so obvious to me." And so this is where they're going with these. There w- there will be no people in Amazon warehouses, or very few people, um, and then pretending otherwise seems kind of ridiculous, 'cause they've really ... they're really quite good at it, and they're a logistics company more than a commerce company. H- how ... And here in, i- in, in Korea, I was just in ro- this thing called Robot Valley. I mean, th- the, robotics does not get enough attention compared to AI, but AI combined with robotics is really, uh, like one of these amazing and also terrifying breakthroughs for humanity, it seems to me, but I don't know. What do you think?
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I agree with you. It's sorta ... it's a similar issue to all these data centers-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... that congresspeople are excited to get in their district, but the reality is, you could turn the lights off during the day 'cause there's nobody working there. There's some labor involved in building these things, but once they're up and running, they're just a huge draw on the local electric or power supply, and they don't create a lot of jobs. I think robots and automation are in many ways ... I ... It's always, it's always the shit you're not expecting that impacts you-
- KSKara Swisher
Yep.
- SGScott Galloway
... to the upside and the downside. I actually think the more important technology over the next 24 months that would be the best bet for America is not GPT-5.0. I think it's GLP-1. I think that would be a better bet for America if they put GLP-1 in the hands of every, uh, obese person in a low-income home. And I think robotics, to your point, are in some ways more important than AI because-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... uh, I think that Jeff Bezos and Dara Khosrowshahi dream of a lack of drivers and, uh, and factory workers. I think they think, "Okay." Think about the majority of the bad press that Amazon has probably received in the last 10 years. A lot of it is stories of these delivery men in vans who have pee bottles and aren't t- aren't paid well, and have to hit quotas and have health insurance. I, I gotta be honest. I'm here for it. I want ... I would love to see AI pilots in planes. If you look at the majority of ... And it won't happen 'cause of psychological reasons, but if you look at the majority of plane crashes, and there's very few, they're almost always pilot error.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And so, uh, there will be job creation though. There'll be people ... There will be people that have to program and build these things and service them. It'll be a higher-wage job, but the story of America is that the low-wage, low-value-add production jobs slowly but surely get screened out as we move from an agrarian to a, a manufacturing to a services to a quote-unquote innovation economy. I think it's a good thing. The problem with America is that we're not very good at retraining and supporting the people on the wrong end of that trade. We're very much winners and losers. Like, sorry boss, it's The Hunger Games here, but I think it'll be ... America actually ... If you look at the economy right now, it's a giant bet on AI, but there has been some real investment in manufacturing of our industrial base.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And I think the only way we compete with China is to have these types of factories.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, China's way ahead on this stuff. I mean, all of Asia is in a lot of ways. And again, AI gets all the attention, but AI combined with robotics is really ... Yeah, there can be ... Let me say, there's, there's sort of a thing called human-centric robots where it's not replace ... not just getting our coffee and it's not-
- SGScott Galloway
It's called a sex doll.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) Okay. That's right, where you go to ... But I'm talking ... What I ... The, the, the stuff I was ... The exoskeletons to help people walk better, to help the elderly, like-
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
Eventually, there, there's all manner. And one of the things ... I had a really interesting suc- discussion with Alex, who of c- is a mechan- ... is mec- mechanical engineering student, and he's like, "Why do robotics have ..." Like, Elon Musk is ... They laugh at Elon Musk here in Korea, I have to tell you, um, because he's like going, "I'm gonna make Optimus, gonna make these, you know, humanoid robots." They don't have to look like humans. Like, the real changes are in places like what Amazon has done, which is, they're robots. They're just not the robots you think of from science fiction. Um, you know, doing a hand. Like, Alex was like, "Why does a dog-walking robot have to look like a person?" In fact, that's hard. They fall over the hand. It's funny. Like, automation is very ... And I think, actually, automation's not a, uh, i- is, y- y- is the right word, right? That's actually ... Instead of calling it advanced technology, it's automation. Um, but there's, there's all kinds of ways robotics are gonna affect us and especially when it's g- when it now ... Like this one thing I was wearing, it uses AI to collect data in real time about my body movements, which would then calculate how these ro- you know, robots should be adjusted per person in real time. And it used to be they'd have to be adjusted individually, but they don't have to anymore. Same thing with cars, same thing. So the combination is really both d- deadly (laughs) to jobs and at the same time breathtaking in terms of savings, like what it's gonna do.
- SGScott Galloway
So each year, and this is, this is a thinly veiled ad, I do-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... my predictions deck, and that is sometime in November, I put together a deck and I say, "These are my predictions for the oncoming year in society, stock market, technology." And each year, I pick one of the big 10 companies, one of the Magnificent Ten, or one of the Big Four actually, Amazon, Apple, Facebook, or Alphabet, and I say, "This will be the best performing stock, and this is why." Last year, I picked Alphabet. It's up 60% in the last year.
- KSKara Swisher
Well done.
- SGScott Galloway
Thank you. Pat myself on the back. This year, um, my pick is probably gonna be Amazon.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And that is, it hasn't ... It's actually hasn't performed very well the last couple years.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And then ... But traditionally, their margin expansion has been powered by-... uh, AWS and the unsung hero of the business, and that is Amazon Media Group running the ads-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... on the platform, and they force retailers to run ads, and it's very high margin. Now the margin expansion is happening in retail. For over a decade, the fulfillment and shipping costs ballooned more quickly than sales, decreasing margins, and then that reversed two years ago, and retail sales are now growing faster than shipping costs.
- KSKara Swisher
That's because they got everyone to use Prime, right? They got everybody in on, on it. They were losing money on Prime, I would assume.
- SGScott Galloway
But also because robotics and the huge investment they've made in robotics is finally delivering operational leverage. Amazon expects to save about, I think, about $13 billion from 2025-
- 46:20 – 54:58
Argentina’s Election Results
- KSKara Swisher
Scott, we're back with more news. The payoff of Donald Trump to help the Argentinian economy has helped. Argentina's President Javier Milei's party swept the country's midterm elections, winning 40% of the votes. They had to get above 35. Compare it with around 24% for the main opposition's, which are- which are the Peronists, who had been running Argentina badly for many years. Now, President Trump endorsed Milei earlier this month and said a $20 billion currency swap bailout from the US was contingent on his midterm success. Trump took to Truth Social to congratulate Milei, saying, "He's making us all look good." And don't worry about the cost of the bailout. Let's listen to the comforting words of Treasury, the thirstiest Treasury Secretary I've ever seen, Scott Bessent, on Meet the Press this weekend.
- NANarrator
It is America first because we are supporting a US ally. Uh, there will be no taxpayer losses. This is a swap line. This is not a bailout.
- KSKara Swisher
Ugh. Well, this is working. I mean, this helped Milei, I think, quite a bit in, in the thing, and, uh, h- h- there's been a lot of, um, pain what he's doing, uh, some of which is- it should have happened because Argentina has had, like, enormous inflation and things like that, but he's doing it in sort of this incredibly, um, brutal way. Um, so how- talk about, uh, talk about this. What- explain what, what Bessent was saying here with, "This is a swap line. This is not a bailout."
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I believe we're just exchanging dollars for pesos, but the peso has, has a habit of, uh, totally crashing and devaluing. Argentina, at the end of World War II, was the third or fourth largest economy in the world because Britain had basically spent everything it had. Two hugely productive economies were decimated, Japan and Germany, and Argentina has been the kind of medium-sized engine that can't. It has been a fucking disaster despite an incredibly- incredible blessing of natural resources, really good universities, an amazing culture, great natural resources. They have just been fucked over and over by kind of socialist, corrupt governments.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
The country has entered IMF, uh, has entered into IMF rescue programs 23 times since 1956-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... more than any other nation. This nation has been, has been bailed out more times than any other nation by the IMF. The most recent major IMF loan-... uh, to Argentina was for 57 billion in 2018, and it failed to stabilize the economy and led to a default just two years later. Over the past 50 years, Argentina has defaulted, defaulted nine times. So basically, every five and a half years, this country defaults, which has resulted in constant hyperinflation and peso devaluation. In the past year alone, the US dollar has increased 350% against the peso. So the, and this is, let's call this for what it is. This is Trump bailing out one of his friends-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... and major-
- KSKara Swisher
Same thing, like, same thing.
- SGScott Galloway
But it's not even about Milei. It's about Rob Citrone, a longtime associate of Treasury Secretary Bessent, who runs a hedge fund-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... and has significant exposure to Argentine bonds and stocks. And what does it do? Again, this is about fucking corruption. The bailout props up these prices, offering a crucial window or exit to mark up the investments of his buddy who will make a huge donation to the Trump campaign. Stan Druckenmiller, Bessent's former mentor at Soros Fund Management is also involved, whose Duquesne family office was recently disclosed as the second-largest investor in Argentina's main exchange-related fund tr- traded fund. Citrone, meanwhile, has made Argentina his biggest bet in Latin America. This is just, you're, you're, this is literally an orgy of corruption.
- KSKara Swisher
It really is. (laughs) It's just ...
- SGScott Galloway
And, and we're the ones that get, like, a $5 tip and have been fucked so many ways, and we just leave the party, you know, y- y- y- you know, naked and, like, abused, and that's basically anyone that doesn't get to hang out in the mansion-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... who's not willing to fellate the big fat man.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, it's just, uh, to think that this isn't going to cost other hedge funds looking for true alpha and looking for investments, to think that somehow we're not gonna end up bailing them out again, and to think about how just moronic this is, we put a tariff on China, which makes no sense. They're smart. They go, "Oh, no, I'm gonna go for your heart and lungs. I'm gonna go after the red states and the people who voted for you four-to-one, the farmers, and we're gonna stop buying all of your soybeans." Those farmers go out of business, right? And who do the Chinese get their soybeans from now?
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Argentina, where we're-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, this soybean farmer. (laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
We're getting, I mean-
- KSKara Swisher
Did you see that? Bessent calling himself a soybean farmer.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, he's a soybean, he's worth a half a billion dollars.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, he's literally, yeah, (laughs) "You are my wife. Goodbye, city life."
- KSKara Swisher
City life. (laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I mean, yeah. Right.
- 54:58 – 1:08:18
Wins And Fails
- KSKara Swisher
Okay, Scott. Let's hear some wins and fails.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, my fail is, it's a s- it's a specific issue of a much larger trend that has become the zeitgeist in our economy, and that is the NBA gambling scandal.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
So Miami Heat guard, Terry Rozier, I believe his name is, and Portland Trailblazers head coach, Chauncey Billups, were among 30 arrested in an FBI investigation that uncovered a poker rigging and illegal betting ring.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Many politicians as well as the NBA commissioner, Adam Silver, have increased calls to Congress to tighten regulations around sports gambling. Since the 2018 Supreme Court decision overturning a federal law that prohibits sports betting outside of Nevada, 38 states have legalized gambling on sports. By the way, the first thing that happens when you legalize, when you legalize betting in a state is bankruptcies go up 20% to 30%. Wagers on sports hit $160 million last year, making it larger than the l- the lottery. One in four adults say they personally bet money on sports. And, by the way, last year, one in two men just bet on the Super Bowl. And one in 10 US adults have placed a bet using an online sportsbook. Despite the proliferation, Americans see betting as a bad thing. 43% of US adults agree that legal sports betting is a bad thing for society, compared to just 34% who agreed three years ago. And i- i- this, it preys on, and I- I- I don't wanna infantilize young men, but they're more risk-aggressive. And when you put a, uh, dopa hit in betting in their pocket, it is, and godlike technology, and basically every ad now when you turn on the s- TV to watch Premier League, is ten pounds free when you sign up for 25 pounds. And folks, they make it impossible to win over the long term. If you're good at it-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... they basically don't let you bet anymore. And the newest trend in sports betting, which will probably have the greatest appreciation in market cap in private companies is predictions markets.
- KSKara Swisher
Right, polymarket cashing.
- SGScott Galloway
And currently, a case is making its way through the courts to decide the future of sports betting on prediction markets. And prediction market weekly volume is about two billion dollars, with about a fifth of it coming from sports betting, the highest category volume. Uh, anyways, the, b- but on a bigger level, a meta level, it's, it essentially is more indicative of our economy, and that is we're, w- we're, uh, the economy now resembles Vegas, and the- the house-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, it's not a thing. It's just betting. It's like crypto.
- SGScott Galloway
Right.
- KSKara Swisher
It's not a thing. It's not a making a thing. It's a, it's something else. What would you call it?
- SGScott Galloway
It, it's, it's basically that-
- KSKara Swisher
It's an economic activity. It's just not productive.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, the houses always win, and the machines-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... have n- our- our narrative platforms, hot take IPOs, meme coins, dudes in hoodies pitching the next big thing. And it, its value, our value in the economy now is, is not derived from character or hard work. It's from attention and speculation rather than goods and services.
- KSKara Swisher
Right. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And then the traditional levers of power, business innovation, labor productivity, real estate growth, they all recede, and young people no longer aspire or show the d-
- KSKara Swisher
It's empty calories is what you're saying.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
Empty.
- SGScott Galloway
And they don't, there's, they don't develop the means, they don't develop the will, and they don't develop the patience for enduring value. Why-
- KSKara Swisher
It's a s- yeah. It's scary.
- SGScott Galloway
Why, why actually figure out a way to get through all the regulations and build a building when you can go get it financed from Qatar by monetizing the White House? Or why even do that when you can just launch a, a meme coin?
- KSKara Swisher
Right. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And then essentially, the-
- KSKara Swisher
Shortcuts everywhere.
- SGScott Galloway
It means the winners get, g- you know, the winners, a small group of people who can own or control or monetize healthcare, monetize the government win, and the losers get stuck with the odds. So, uh, uh, we have godlike technology in gambling that's the dopa hit. For mo- majority of our time on this planet, we haven't accessed, had access to free f- free safe play in gaming. So when we have it, we, we go crazy with it. Also, there's people telling us we can be rich and we can be popular and we can get women, and they hit you at exactly the wrong time when you're most vulnerable. And you're just seeing more and more people have their lives ruined by this shit. And then the broader loss is that our economy is becoming about synthetic risk-taking, not enduring value, not the hard work, the labor to build a company, to invest in relationships. You get a quick hit from this kind of gambling or casino-like economy. I think it's just creating the wrong values-
Episode duration: 1:08:18
Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript
Transcript of episode tbKoHSe0ous
Get more out of YouTube videos.
High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.
Add to Chrome