EVERY SPOKEN WORD
115 min read · 22,785 words- 0:00 – 7:43
Intro
- KSKara Swisher
And I'm sure there are lesbians who have Cybertrucks, but I'm not speaking to them anymore. (instrumental music) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- SGScott Galloway
And I heard you're going on vacation.
- KSKara Swisher
I am, just for a sh- few short days.
- SGScott Galloway
For just-
- KSKara Swisher
A few short days, I'm taking-
- SGScott Galloway
... I don't think I've ever known you-
- KSKara Swisher
... the kids.
- SGScott Galloway
... to go on a vacation.
- KSKara Swisher
I know, I know. Amanda required it. Um, she didn't require it actually. Um, my two younger kids have different vacations because they're at different schools, and this was the only crossover. And then, um, Louie's coming too. Alex just recently went on his own vacation so he's not coming. He's got school. Um, but yeah. I know. I'm gonna, like, not do anything for four days, which is probably not true, but I'll be probably be talking to you and so-
- SGScott Galloway
Well, you, you may be too old for this to really have an impact on you, but my wife claims that she just loves to fuck on vacation, which is-
- KSKara Swisher
Okay. (laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... it was kind of a weird postcard to get.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
That's good!
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, my God. Where are you coming up with-
- SGScott Galloway
That's good!
- KSKara Swisher
... all these bad jokes? Did you get a joke book for-
- SGScott Galloway
That's good. It's called the internet.
- KSKara Swisher
Did you get a joke book? Okay, all right.
- SGScott Galloway
What, what is the internet for other than watching videos?
- KSKara Swisher
I know, I know, I know.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
But lately, there's been five or six really bad jokes.
- SGScott Galloway
Tracking, tracking the slow descent into fascism and funny jokes, that's it.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. That's true, that's true.
- SGScott Galloway
I, I am so pissed off. I believe... I'm that dad.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I send at least two dozen ridiculously hilarious memes to my sons every day, and I will see, I will wake, I will get up at 2:00 in the morning and find out that they still have not seen them, much less responded.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
They don't even open or look at-
- 7:43 – 14:20
Trump v. Judges
- KSKara Swisher
let's, th- speaking of losing, uh, the judiciary is really pushing back on Donald Trump. Chief Justice John Roberts clapping back against President Trump. Earlier this week, Trump called for the impeachment of a district judge who'd ruled against him over, uh, the deportation of Venezuelans, which led Roberts to issue a very rare response. Let me read part of it. "For the two, for more than two centuries it has been established that impeachment is not an appropriate response to disagreement concerning a judicial decision. The normal app, uh, appellate review process exists for that purpose." It's a little bit weak sauce, but there it was. Uh, when GOP representatives introduced articles of impeachment against the judge, let's listen to what President Trump had to say about it on Laura Ingraham.
- NANarrator
We have very bad judges, and these are judges that shouldn't be allowed. I think they, I think at a certain point, you have to start looking at what do you do when you have a rogue judge? The judge that we're talking about, he's, uh, you look at his other rulings, I mean, rulings unrelated, but having to do with me, he's a lunatic.
- KSKara Swisher
This is what he said about every judge who deals with him. This is just a typical thing he does, is insults the judges in any way. According to a sworn filing in an Immigration and Customs Enforcement official, many of those deported did not have criminal records. It's really quite amazing. They just grab people. Um, th- th- he's lost, I think, six times with judges. So again, appellate courts are the way you win here, Donald Trump. You na- you tend not to win, because what you do is illegal. But, um, but anyway, this is a major showdown and he's setting up a real fight with the Supreme Court, 'cause all of these are gonna eventually get to the Supreme Court. Any thoughts?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, this is, I, I think probably one of the most significant historical events happened kind of, it got some coverage, but I don't think people realized how important it was. And that is, the White House essentially defied a court order and, um, let those planes carrying, um, carrying the people they wanted deported, some of whom had done nothing but had the wrong tattoo, and then they created what I think is basically a Republican snuff film. Did you see the video of them being-
- KSKara Swisher
Yes.
- SGScott Galloway
... dragged off planes?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean-
- KSKara Swisher
That was by the guy who runs El Salvador, who seems like an asshole. Um, that, I think that was his with the music. I think he put them up.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I mean, El Salvador's a really interesting situation what's happened there, but that's another talk show. But-
- KSKara Swisher
No.
- SGScott Galloway
... w- effectively, if the, if the White House is gonna ignore court orders, the question is well, okay, what power does the judiciary or the, or the court have if they start violating court orders? And what the power they have is they could say, "All right, if you carry out these, if, if you actively or the individuals define these court orders, we can put you in jail or fine you." But the problem is, the president can then pardon them. So i- if you have... We're in unchartered territories. We, look, we have a criminal as president and, uh, y- you know, this is a convicted felon, someone who appears to have absolutely no regard for the law, who's set or seems comfortable carving up the world with another mob boss, another autocrat, who has now defied court orders. And if he has the power of the pardon, and can threaten judges, and i- uh, appears to be comfortable defying court orders, then folks, you know, i- it might feel good, right? A, a decent number of Democrats and Republicans have both said in polls they'd be comfortable with an autocrat as long as he or she agreed with their views. All right, just wait until that knock on the door comes for you and your nephew or your outspoken, um, friend on politics is kind of disappeared, is shipped off, is put on a plane to somewhere where they don't, aren't protected by the law, is incarcerated without due process, has their livelihood taken away and has no recourse. I mean, they're, i- it's really interesting that y- they are doing exactly what they said they would do. When he said, "I will concede the election if I win," that was a blatant, "I'm going to be an autocrat." And everyone is like, "Oh, isn't that funny? Isn't that cute? He doesn't really mean it." He's pretty much done everything he said he was gonna do. But if, if the courts are neutered by the power of the pardon or President or an administration, supported by one party that controls Congress a-... it says it's okay to violate court orders?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. I agree.
- SGScott Galloway
We're, we're essentially done.
- KSKara Swisher
Well, I think that's why, why Roberts did that, is, is issuing a warning, because he lost, he's lost in the Supreme Court several times recently, especially 'cause of, uh, Amy Coney Barrett and Roberts together with the liberal wing of the party. It keeps being five-four. And I think that, uh, he doesn't seem to... He, it, the, the Supreme Court orders, he's, has yet to over not do. The issue is he's also the enforcer of these things, and so... And J., uh, J.D. Vance keeps quoting Andrew Jackson, "Let him enforce it. If he wants to say this, let him enforce it." What, what's also, you know, really... It, it's just, it's, this is what he's doing, and he's, he... What he's doing is he's raising... He goes, "You wouldn't, uh, you can't do that. However, we have bad judges." The only judge he likes is A- Eileen Cannon, who does whatever he wants, right? Anything that's for him. And she's a, she's an incompetent, uh, judge, essentially, but she gets to stay there until they remove her. Uh, and she can be overturned on, uh, uh, appellate court, and that's the whole system, which is what Roberts was talking about. But we'll see how far he goes here. Like, he's already gone very, very far down the line and, and his little handmaidens to sedition like, uh, uh, Laura Ingraham i- is, are, are really disturbing. Like, it's a disturbing thing to agree, uh, that you're gonna attack judges. Now, in other countries where they've tried this, th- the guys, typically, they don't win. The courts tend to win. Um, but we'll see. We'll see what happens.
- SGScott Galloway
Look what's going on in Hungary, I mean, for-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... I mean, Viktor Orbán, who's sort of the role model or the idol here-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... for how Trump is executing his presidential powers, there are, there's real, there's an enormous protests-
- KSKara Swisher
Protests. That's what's taking happen.
- SGScott Galloway
... in Hungary, which is actually really hopeful, um-
- KSKara Swisher
I do too. I see the future of the GOP right here. Right here it is. He can only do so much. We'll see what happens, and I think Roberts is a critically important character, he, even though most people think he's a, he's a, he's a, a limp noodle. Um, but he did that, and that, for him, that was like screaming, I think, I believe, according to lawyers I know. Um, in another power... And by the way, he keeps l- Trump has lost and lost and lost yesterday particularly over and over and over again. Uh-
- SGScott Galloway
But the question then becomes, does that mean anything when you lose if they just stop, if they just-
- KSKara Swisher
Correct.
- SGScott Galloway
... start ignoring those, those (laughs) , those court decisions.
- KSKara Swisher
Correct. Right. He, I think he has started to not ignore them on some things, and the others, they play fast and cute, especially that border czar, Tom Homan. What a clown. Anyway,
- 14:20 – 22:13
Trump’s FTC Purge
- KSKara Swisher
uh, President Trump just, uh, fired, by the way, the two Democratic members of the FTC, which is very illegal, saying, "Their services is inconsistent with my administration's policies." That's right, 'cause they're Democrats. Uh, just for people to know, the FTC typically has five members with the president's party holding three of those seats. Uh, th- th- they're seven-year terms. You can't fire them unl- except for gross incompetence, not "inconsistent with my administration's policies." That's the whole point of having two members be from a different party. The two fired Democrats, Rebecca Kelly Slaughter, who I know very well, and, uh, Al- uh, Alvaro Bedoya plan to challenge Trump's decision in court, obviously. Bedoya told the New York Times, "When people hear the news, they need not think about me. They need to think about the billionaires behind, uh, the president and his inauguration," and that's exactly what this is. Um, this is a payback to, uh, to the, to the people who, uh, who sat in fr- on the front row. Um, FTC is investigating all of these companies. Whether you agree with them or not, they'll lose in court if they're not. They don't have a good case, again, um, so, uh, you know, and the guy who runs the FTC is such a unctuous toady, uh, A- Andrew Ferguson, let me name him, you're an unctuous toady, um, to allow these people... They already ha- they're gonna have a, a, a dominance, they need to add one more person to the, uh, FTC, but they're gonna have a dominance anyway, so I don't know why they need to do this. Um, but, uh, it really does. It s- feels like payback to, to everybody standing up there, uh, Trump, all the tech billionaires, uh, in terms of, of antitrust cases and everything else. Even if you didn't agree with Lina Khan, uh, that's the whole point here is the person, the com- uh, party in power gets to decide, and this is just a wholesale, um, giveaway to the billionaires, um, again, once again.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, you have essentially w- what, what people or what Democrats have failed to do is connect antitrust with lower inflation.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And that is, it's no accident that Google announced they were going to acquire (clears throat) , I think it was called Wizz Company-
- KSKara Swisher
Wizz.
- SGScott Galloway
... uh, last year, and the FTC and DOJ said, "We have some concerns," and they called it off. And, um, uh-
- KSKara Swisher
What just happened.
- SGScott Galloway
... Wizz filed to go public. Now, had Biden been reelected, or excuse me, Harris been elected, it's likely that Wizz would've gone public and Google would've had a competitor, which would've meant that enterprises that use these products would've had more options, which results in competition, which results in lower prices. But because, uh, Trump was elected, the FTC and the DOJ have effectively have an entirely different complexion now in terms of the bar or how high the bar needs to be to file an action to block a merger and acquisition, and what do you know? Google came back and said, "Let's, let's acquire this company." So, uh, under the Biden administration, uh, you know, last year was a record low for M&A, but you're gonna see a lot, you're gonna see a further consolidation of power. And one of the biggest issues facing our economy is really boring. You know, it's the boring stuff that moves the needle, and it's the fact that across everything from home renovations to chicken to things like fertilizer, much less digital media, there are a small handful of companies that control the entire market, and the result is, in concentrated industries, they can charge higher rents on corporations and on consumers. So if you want... I mean, it sounds really boring, but if you want inflation to come down over the medium and the long term, you want a really robust FTC and DOJ, and they're no longer that. They're basically there to say, "Okay." Jonathan Kanro, who I had on the pod- uh, podcast, was more optimistic. He said that a lot of people still at the FTC and the DOJ are not exactly, they're not just gonna roll over.
- KSKara Swisher
They are.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, but-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, especially the DOJ.
- SGScott Galloway
But I would, uh, uh, uh, we still haven't been able to effectively, um, on the left, communicate (laughs) that M&A, while, uh, it, it feels like capitalism and it's more macho and get out of the way of companies...There are a surpri- we have seven companies basically driving the stock market right now.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Well-
- SGScott Galloway
We, we need... Sorry, go ahead, Kara.
- KSKara Swisher
G- Google bought the Wiz for $32 billion, for people who don't know. It's a security cloud, uh, company, cloud security startup.
- SGScott Galloway
I think it's their biggest acquisition ever.
- KSKara Swisher
It is. It's, it's, it's enormous? It's an enormous... Uh, obviously Microsoft and Amazon have been doing great in the cloud services area, and so Google wanted to beef it up. There is competition here, but this is a crazy... This is... A lot of people feel, um, you know, they were gonna buy it for $23 billion last year, but there was concerns from fedu- federal, like, regulators, um, and, and the... E- especially, uh, about the f- the need for more competition, i- including with Amazon and Microsoft, so now it does boil down to three, right? All the time, it boils down to two to three. Um, so it's, it really is anti-competitive, um, because it's one of the most fast-growing software companies in the world right now. So, it's taking out, again, a really, a r- a, a robust competitor, um, which is really something to see.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, when companies-
- KSKara Swisher
Sorry.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, uh, so it's not... Okay, it's their biggest, it's their biggest acquisition ever. It's only a 1.5% dilution to their stock price. They have a $2 trillion market cap. They can make a $30 billion acquisition. I mean, these companies, these companies are just so enormous and have so much capital that they can... I mean, quite frankly, they could afford to buy this, and they're not going to do it here, but they could afford to buy this and do an acro kill, and just kill it if they were bothering them, because a 1.5% dilution of the stock price is just not... Quite frankly, $32 billion is, dollars is a lot of money. A dilution of 1.5% of your outstanding stock is not. And these companies, these big companies have such an advantage because the reality is, if they see any sort of strategic reason whatsoever to acquire a company, uh, i- e- no one else can compete. (laughs) It just, there's a small handful of companies that have multi-trillion dollar market caps, they... You just can't... It, it's just like when the kingdom decides they're bidding on the World Cup, no other bidder even shows up-
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
... because every other country is like, "Why bother? Why?" (laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
"Why even, why even go through the hassle of finding the former governor of the province of Brazil or whatever, putting together a team, putting together a group of people, putting our best foot forward? Why even bother when we know the kingdom is showing up?" And if-
- KSKara Swisher
Wow.
- SGScott Galloway
... one of these players shows up for an acquisition, it... No.
- KSKara Swisher
It's over. It's over.
- SGScott Galloway
It's over. It's done.
- KSKara Swisher
FTC Chairperson Ferguson, again, Unctuous Toady, uh, his, his new nickname, posted a statement on X saying he had no doubts about Trump's constitutional authority to remove commissioners. Oh my God. It d- it literally says he can't remove commissioners. It's, it's so weird. It's like them, like, saying, "Oh, president..." Uh, someone in Meta, um, uh, MAGA are saying, um, you can, uh, president can stay three terms, and I was like, "The 22nd Amendment says you can't," and these people are arguing the Constitution says you can't. Literally the opposite of what it says, they say, and it's so irritating. K- Senator Maria Cantwell and Amy Klobuchar, by the way, uh, who, w- who serve on the committees that oversee the FTC even though they don't have power right now, President Trump's dismissal of Commissioner Slaughter and Bedoya are not only illegal but also hurts consumers by undermining an independent agency that Congress established to protect consumers from fraud, scams, and monopoly power. Now, the FTC is moving forward with its, uh, Meta, uh, lawsuits. Uh, he said, uh, F- Ferguson said, uh, they're gonna move forward, uh, with, with Meta. Uh, we'll see. We'll see. Um, uh, I think that's probably their strongest case. And again, if they, they can move forward with these things, and if they lose, they lose, right? Um, so, uh, you know, we'll see how, um, how much they're going forward. So I guess Mark Zuckerberg's appearance didn't help as much as the others, uh, essentially. Anyway, um, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Starlink gets installed at the White House. Even worse, it... God, it just gets worse
- 22:13 – 24:55
Starlink at The White House
- KSKara Swisher
and worse. Scott, we're back. Starlink is now accessible at the White House. White House officials said the move was an effort to increase internet availability, saying some areas of the property couldn't get cell service. Uh, this is nonsense. Th- that system was reportedly routed through the White House data center. Officials said Starlink donated the service, and the gift was vetted by lawyers overseeing ethics issues at the White House Counsel's Office. So many tech people say this is really dangerous (laughs) . Like, I just, I can't even tell you. It's like putting, like, Putin's, uh, uh, y- you know, his listening device in the White House, and just opens everything up, but lots and lots of tech people are like, "Ooh, this is not something you want to happen on the White House grounds." But presumably they already have a direct line, so I don't know. What do you think? It's also ethically ridiculous.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, it's more just sort of the White House is turning into a giant infomercial for its political allies, but in addition, I-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Yes, you're right.
- SGScott Galloway
... I think it's stupid of SpaceX and Starlink. Uh, Starlink, I absolutely love Starlink. I think it's an amazing product, it's a superior product, and its competitors all of a sudden have seen their stock prices surge and have access to capital to potentially at some point be a competitor. I think Jeff Bezos, I think everyone is eyeing this space going, "These guys have created an opening because, because of, um, Musk kind of over-political activity, uh, I'm now thinking, 'How do I get rid of,' or, 'How do I not use Starlink?'" And th- I, I, I just think this is a dumb move for them. I think, um, people are, you, that... He is alienating 52% of the population overnight with his products, and I just wanna give a shout-out to me. I sold my Tesla before it was cool three years ago.
- KSKara Swisher
You did. I remember.
- SGScott Galloway
And i- y- uh, I don't know if you saw the, uh, Senator Kelly just did a, just did, made a big deal of him selling his Tesla. Uh, this is next. Starlink, i- if you, y- they basically decided to politicize this product, and I think just on an economic level, shareholders... SpaceX is one of the most actively traded and most valuable private companies on the secondary market. It's also responsible now for the majority...It's the largest source of wealth now for, um, Musk, because he owns so much of it. And it's an incredible product, but it's, it's, it looks like it's gonna go the same way of Tesla, and that is, it's attracting a ton of competition. People will catch up, and then people given sort of a coin flip, uh, or a tiebreaker will opt for the company that's not run-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. I agree.
- SGScott Galloway
... by someone whose politics they don't agree with. So, I think it's a stupid move.
- KSKara Swisher
I just don't know why they... uh, the security issues to me are... but whatever. They, they can get whatever they want from this guy, the Russians. You can imagine this creates a more porous environment, which is maybe the point. Um,
- 24:55 – 31:47
Government Websites Taken Down
- KSKara Swisher
uh, another thing that I think, I thought of you when I read it, was the HHS has removed... another thing they're doing besides making us less secure is also, uh, from a technical point of view, is removing information from websites, all, all over the government, that is, you know, mentions people. And there's two things that really stood out. The first, uh, the HHS has removed the Surgeon General's advisory on gun violence from its website. A spokesperson for the agency said the content was removed to comply with Trump's executive order to protect Second Amendment rights. Firearms are the leading cause of death for children and teens in the US. Also recently removed, this was heinous, articles about Native American code talkers have been removed from some military websites, include, having been labeled DEI. The Navajo code talkers aided America's victory at Iwo Jima, historically, a critically important, uh, group of people who did this. Um, and I think they, they just... they're removing all kinds of things that... well, they... some words don't work, and they end up removing the wrong thing, because they have a list of fucking words that don't work. Instead of going through this kind of thing, they just do this wholesale, you know, cut and paste, essentially. Uh, re- replacing this information is gonna be very difficult over time, because it will be replaced eventually. But the, but between the firearms and these code talkers, it's, uh, uh, I feel like I'm living in 1984, like in the, in the book 1984. I don't know how you feel.
- SGScott Galloway
This is... I mean, again, it's difficult to know where to focus, because the, you know, the hits keep on coming. But as you referenced, number one source of death for children in the United States, past accidents, cancer, drowning, drug poisonings, is now firearms. And as someone who left the US 18 or 20, um, two and a half years ago, I'm just telling you, a free gift with purchase living in the UK is you don't have these horror fantasies involving gun deaths or mass shooters. And-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, you talk about that.
- SGScott Galloway
54% of US adults report that either they or a family member have experienced a firearm-related incident. Uh, one in five have a family member who was killed by a firearm, including suicide. It... and then going back to... uh, I always like to ground everything in a personal parable. When I sold my first company, Prophet, um, there was a, like a 20-year anniversary of the company. I started the company when I was 26, and me and the other co-founder were not invited. The, the, the CEO wanted it to be all about him. Fine, okay, have at it. And we used to joke that we were like... that we were living in a fascist state and we were Trotsky being erased from photos. And even we heard about them showing up to clients and, and referring to themselves as the founders. Like, we were literally erased from the, the scrolls of history from this company, despite the fact that we had hired everybody wasn't... that was now claiming they were the founders. And to go back, to go back in history and say to the, you know, the two and a half million African-Americans that registered for the draft, the one million African-Americans that fought in World War II, the 33,000 Japanese-Americans who fought mostly in the European theater, despite the fact that maybe their parents had been sent to confinement camps, 120,000 Americans of Japanese ancestry, and, and, and then to not at least nod that many of them served in World War II. There was 20,000 Chinese-Americans. There were 44,000 Native Americans. Somewhere between five and 10% of the entire Indigenous population fought in World War II. A quarter of a million Filipino-Americans, 400,000 Hispanic-Americans. And to not acknowledge that is to not acknowledge one of the great... uh, one of the great victories, one of the great civil rights advancements i- i- in American history that makes our military so... The US military, I believe, is the most impressive organization in history. And a- across, you know, many of its achievements and many of its victories, it was also a tremendous means of progress in civil rights. Because there's something about wearing the same uniform and being dependent upon the guy or the gal next to you that has a tendency to make you look at each other for your character and your skills and nothing else. And the armed services have been an outstanding means of progress for special interest groups. And to remove their commitment and their sacrifice, it, it's just so un-American. And it basically-
- KSKara Swisher
It's un-American, it's petty and it's cruel and it's weird.
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs) .
- KSKara Swisher
It's just weird. It's just so weird. I mean, especially these now... uh, uh, the gun stuff is... it, it... beyond belief. It's just a fact. And I think what's, what's really... you know, it... obviously, it's yet another attempt, like with the judges. This has a theme, everybody. You remove the judges, you remove information, you only tell people... I don't think it works at all. I honestly don't. I think people are sick and tired of this and they get it. And Americans are a uniquely difficult group of people. And so I don't think it works. I don't think it, it holds. I think in other countries sometimes it does. But in this one, I think people get furious about especially stuff like this. Um, I mean, literally just to... they, they have one issue with DEI and they cannot stop. That's the thing. They cannot stop with one or two things. They've got to completely erase everything, especially this cut and paste of words. Like, they... I forget what they took out, some dumb thing, and-But that's beyond bel- this is, this to me is ridiculous. And everyone, everyone knows that gun violence kills kids. That's it. There's, I don't care how many things they take down, everybody knows, and everyone's aware of it, and they will pay the price here for going overboard on almost everything. Um-
- SGScott Galloway
Well, we hope, we hope they'll pay the price.
- KSKara Swisher
I think they will pay the price.
- SGScott Galloway
So far they, so far they, so far they haven't. We keep, we keep hoping and waiting. But just back to the, the erasing people from photos of history-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
...and a really positive part of our history. You're going to Puerto Rico? 53,000 Puerto Ricans fought in World War II.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. I love all your stats, Scott.
- SGScott Galloway
400,000 Hispanic Americans-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
...including 350,000 Mexican-Americans.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
These are people who came here, felt really fortunate to be a part of this great experiment called America, and decided to put themselves, uh, you know, in ri- risk bodily harm to serve in a uniform, to fight for the rights of all Americans, and we're, we're erasing them from, from history? Uh, it's, it's just, it's very strange and self-defeating. And how, how likely are people going to be to raise their hand and say, "I will fight for my country," thinking that at some point, my contribution (laughs) might be starched from history. It's, uh, uh, it's very disappointing-
- KSKara Swisher
No.
- SGScott Galloway
...to say the least.
- KSKara Swisher
And it's very typical, it's not a surprise. I think karma's a bitch. I think putting people in jail that never had a criminal record without due process, everything is, karma's gonna be such a bitch here. I, I, I just believe that, 'cause they, it's one thing after the next where, uh, injustice happens. And so we'll see. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about, uh, BYD's big breakthrough. Scott, we're
- 31:47 – 35:02
BYD’s New Supercharger
- KSKara Swisher
back. Chinese EV company BYD is promoting a new fast charging technology that can allegedly add 250-mile range in a five-minute charge. Woo, I was very excited about this. The new battery and charging system will be used, uh, in BYD's next generation vehicles, and the company plans to build more than 4,000 ultra-fast chargers across China. This puts BYD well ahead of Tesla, whose Superchargers currently add around 170 miles on a range, of range for a 15-minute charge. It takes longer than that, just so you know. BYD, uh, shares hit re- record high yesterday on the news. The company is up more than 50% for the year with a hundred and, uh, $60 billion market cap, as Tesla is down 30 some percent, 37%. It goes up and down, but it's mostly, uh, 30% for the year. Um, is this Tesla's Deep Seek moment? Tesla stock is currently headed for its ninth straight weekly loss. It's now 53% below all-time highs. Statistically, everybody's gaining, including US, uh, makers of EVs, uh, all over the place. Uh, and Tesla's losing, uh, market share. And of course, there's the protests that go on across the country. Um, Attorney General... Uh, but they're trying to, he's trying to get an assist from Attorney General Pam Bondi, who's labeling recent attacks on Tesla dealerships an act of domestic terrorism directed at Elon Musk, who was weeping about it on Fox News, saying he's only done lovely things for people his whole life and he's never been violent, i.e., well, fine. He's created the situation where people die, but that's, whatever you say, Elon. Bondi said in a statement that, "The DA- DOJ will investigate these incidents and impose severe consequences on the people involved." There's definitely an organized m- protest ac- across, interestingly by the person paying for it is the wife of Steve Jurvetson, his, who was Elon's pal, the ex-wife, uh, who's a big Democratic donor is helping, uh, you know, uh, helping get these things organized, uh, these, these protests. Which is perfectly within the rights of her and the protestors to do. Obviously not within the rights are, um, ar- are violence, but they're certainly allowed to cause all kinds of ruckuses in front of these places and put up Nazi pictures of Elon and stuff like that. So, these two things, BYD is just doing the inno- on one hand, BYD is doing the innovative things Tesla should be doing if its CEO was paying attention. And secondly, if people don't like Elon Musk, they can protest against him, and for the Attorney General to call it domestic terrorism is really beyond the pale. Again, an ad for Elon Musk by the President, his own personal Attorney General.
- SGScott Galloway
In the first two months of this year, Tesla sold 60,000 vehicles, BYD sold 481,000. And that represents-
- KSKara Swisher
That's amazing.
- SGScott Galloway
...that represents a 75% increase year on year of BYD, and a 14% decline for Tesla. And despite Tesla losing, you know, a third of its value in the last month, it's still, it, if, if Tesla trades like other car companies that are growing at the same rate, which is declining, n- and now the majority of car companies are growing faster than Tesla. That puts its stock at about $14 a share. So, the notion that somehow (laughs) Tesla's been, has had some market correction, we haven't even-
- KSKara Swisher
Still hasn't.
- SGScott Galloway
...seen a correction.
- 35:02 – 41:18
Tesla Protests
- SGScott Galloway
- KSKara Swisher
And the protests, what do you think of the protests? They continue, they haven't stopped, which is really interesting.
- SGScott Galloway
I'm, look, I, I'm, it tickles my sensors. Um, uh, I, I like, uh, I'm, I'm of two minds, and that is I don't think people should damage physical property. I joke that whenever I get a Tesla, I cancel or I let it wait outside. I have started canceling when I get Teslas and I try to put it in the notes although you can't on Uber. Um, I don't think people should deface property. I don't, I don't think people should feel unsafe in their cars. But, uh, protests, peaceful protest is an American right.
- KSKara Swisher
Or calling it Cybertruck owner an asshole. That's, that's, if you choose to buy it, I think that's perfectly fine. I think if it, as long as-
- SGScott Galloway
I can say I, I don't agree. I, I-
- KSKara Swisher
I do not agree.
- SGScott Galloway
You buy a Cybertruck, uh, I do think there needs to be-
- KSKara Swisher
It's such an obnoxious term.
- SGScott Galloway
...for the benefit of all of us-
- KSKara Swisher
I don't do it.
- SGScott Galloway
...I think we, I think we err on the side of civility. I do- I, quite frankly, I didn't like it when J.D. Vance gets booed on a ski mountain with his family. I, it tickles-
- KSKara Swisher
Hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
...my sensors.... but I think that in America, ideally, you wanna err on the side of giving people some grace when they're out in public, I- including driving their car. I, I, I, I'm turning into an old person. I-
- KSKara Swisher
You are, because I think that's exactly what it is to be an American, and I think Americans do that. I think you pro-
- SGScott Galloway
Well-
- KSKara Swisher
I, I, I didn't mind when the, when all the Christians went nuts about Disney. They can protest. I didn't love the Nazis out front.
- SGScott Galloway
I'm not saying, I'm not saying you can't protest. What I'm saying-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... is if someone is out skiing with their family, if someone is driving a car, I don't think verbally assaulting them or verbally screaming at them, that's your right. I'm not saying it's not legal, but it doesn't mean it's right. And I think one of the nice things about America is that we do have a certain level of comity or respect for each other. I was at a party, an F1 party in Las Vegas, and someone showed up wearing a MAGA hat. And that individual, a woman, was kind of immediately surrounded, and people started shouting at her. I did not think-
- KSKara Swisher
What?
- SGScott Galloway
... that was right either.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, that's silly.
- SGScott Galloway
They should be able to wear a MAGA hat, and-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... I, I, I think we have to err on the side, when we're out in public, uh, err on the side of civility. You have the right to say things, but calling someone an asshole because they get out of a certain brand of car, uh, uh, it... We're just a slow burn into e- an erosion in everyone's quality of life.
- KSKara Swisher
I don't know, I think, I think it's sort of a long tradition of the United States doing this. I think you're, you're living in a country that doesn't... I mean, I, you know, I just, I, I feel like I don't love a lot of it, but at this... Cybertruck in particular is somewhat offensive to my eyes, and that's probably one of the reasons that compared to a lot of cars. Um, but, you know, you've been in a, in a line and some dick d- douche drives up in a Ferrari, who obviously is just rich and try- is compensating, and everyone goes, "Uh," like this under the breath, right? Instead of saying-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but they don't start screaming, "Hey, you little dick weirdo." They just say, "Let him-"
- KSKara Swisher
Yes.
- SGScott Galloway
"... let him or her get his or her coffee-"
- KSKara Swisher
Yes.
- 41:18 – 46:56
Forever 21 Files for Bankruptcy
- KSKara Swisher
so, uh, this is one that's sort of in your wheelhouse. Forever 21 filed for bankruptcy this week. Uh, the two t- second time in six years is, uh, this time putting the blame on fast fashion retailers, uh, Temu and, uh, Shein. In court filing, Forever 21 noted non-US retailers selling products at drastically lower prices made it difficult to retain a core customer base. The company plans to liquidate while looking for a buyer for its business or its assets. Uh, Shein and, uh, Temu are facing their own struggles with Trump's tariffs, though he delayed cracking down on the loophole that exempts low-cost items from getting taxed. Uh, he probably won't delay on it. Um, I, I don't know. I just think-... Forever 21 sucks, but-
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
... what do you think here? I just think it sucks. (laughs) It just sucks.
- SGScott Galloway
I think you've summarized it.
- KSKara Swisher
And, and the other two don't. And the other two don't, even, even if they have advantages in China.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, look, uh, I, I've said this, that a de minimis, a de minimis loophole that favors foreign retailers over domestic, fine. I can... I think there's an argument that they, they should do away with it, create a level playing field. I get that. But Forever 21, I group into a group of specialty retailers whose value proposition I would identify as dressing 15-year-old girls up like sluts. I just, I...
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) God. (laughs) It's...
- SGScott Galloway
That, th-
- KSKara Swisher
I know that. I agree with you.
- SGScott Galloway
There was an entire genre of retailers who literally, like-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... "Send your 15-year-old and we'll make her look like a slut." I mean, that's-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... essentially what the fashion was, or the genre. It was, you know... Anyways, I don't-
- KSKara Swisher
I would agree. I ha-... I, I w-... I used to... I, I get some... Even today, (clears throat) when you're looking for kids clothes, a lot of the girls clothes are really questionable, and the boys' clothes rock. They're, like, so cool. They're, like, so interesting. And the girls' clothes are always like... Some of them are like, "Ooh." No, no, no.
- SGScott Galloway
I think it's Instagram.
- KSKara Swisher
Anyway.
- SGScott Galloway
I think it's the algorithm sexualizing girls, but anyways-
- KSKara Swisher
I'm talking about five-year-olds, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
But, (sighs) look, i- i- there is... I mean, if you look at what's happening, and I love this, that if you look at over the past 20 years, inflation adjusted clothing prices have dropped about 50% and unit consumption has doubled. And this kinda connects back to antitrust. Th- the clothing and apparel industry is globalized, it's relatively tariff friendly, and it's incredibly robust, meaning there's a ton of competition. What does that mean? It means that Americans can buy more at a lower price. On an inflation adjusted basis, the price of apparel has been cut in half. And by the way, folks, when things get cut in half in price, it means your prosperity skyrockets. We want competition. We want... And if you, if you, if you don't realize what tariffs are gonna do, about 99% of our clothes... No, I'm sorry. 97% of our clothes-
- KSKara Swisher
Made abroad.
- SGScott Galloway
... are made abroad. (laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
What, what's a good US retailer that competes with Shein and Temu? Like, w- who would you say? I mean, they're all the expensive ones, right? Uh, uh, Gap sort of doesn't even-
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, there's no low-cost maker. I remember-
- KSKara Swisher
There's no low-cost. There's expensive ones, like Hanna Andersson Rocks, or there's all kinds of really wonderful higher end children's clothing, for example. I'm, I'm just thinking of children's clothing. Um, but it's... I mean, I'm trying to think. H&M I like a lot. I like, um, the- the other one.
- SGScott Galloway
H&M's not US. Um, I mean-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I know they're not US. It's the other one that's not-
- SGScott Galloway
The iconic... Look, the iconic US-
- KSKara Swisher
It's the one I buy T-shirts from.
- SGScott Galloway
The iconic US fashion specialty retailers are, in my opinion, Urban Outfitters. Urban and Free People are two of the hottest brands. But the majority, if not all, of their manufacturing is abroad. I remember... And i-... I always love an opportunity to have a professional flex. The first... One of the first consulting clients I had, one of my mentors was a guy named Warren Helman of Helman & Friedman, and he said, "I have a great assignment for you." I was, like, 27, and I'd started this, quote-unquote, "strategy firm." He said, "I want you to come to Levi Strauss & Company board meetings. I don't want you to talk to anybody. I want you to listen the entire board meeting, and then I want you to stand up and give your view." And it was me and a guy named Lee Clow from Chiat\Day got to do this for four board meetings. And one of the first things I said was they had, back in the '90s, Levi Strauss & Company still had domestic manufacturing, and the Haas family, who are very paternal and really civic-minded, were very committed to keeping domestic manufacturing. And the CFO got up there, and I... Uh, you know, I can do math. I said, "What is the cost per unit, uh, producing domestically?" And it was, like... I think it was 11 bucks a pair. And the cost, uh, to bring in the same quality from just across the border in Mexico, or I forget where we were, Honduras, was $3.80. And so, I'm like, "Okay, but just to be clear, uh, what you have decided is that you're giving people un- naturally, artificially high wages that once they're laid off, there's gonna be nowhere else to go." And eventually, of course, they outsourced all of their production. We are meant to go to the lowest cost provider for more prosperity. We need to maintain a certain level of domestic production. For example, the shoe industry has these ridiculous tariffs claiming that if we go to war, we need domestic manufacture of boots, which is just stupid, right? We could spin up a factory to build boots pretty quickly. But the clothing industry is an example of an increase in prosperity because we've globalized it and we don't have massive tariffs. So, uh, uh... I mean, it's, it's striking how Temu and Shein, like, one out of five things purchased over the holidays were from those two companies. But Forever 21, uh, you know, it just... Like you said, it just didn't... It just couldn't compete, nor should it. I, I like it when nations compete for our dollar.
- 46:56 – 49:46
Listener Mail
- KSKara Swisher
Okay, Scott, let's pivot to a listener question.
- NANarrator
Hey Scott, Kara. It's Kyle from New York. Big fan of the show. I had a question about Trump's proposed federal income tax elimination for anyone making less than $150,000 a year. I've heard a lot of discussion recently about how Trump's economic policies really only benefit the wealthy and harm the younger, less wealthy portion of the population. This policy seems like it's in response to that discussion. I'm curious, from your perspective, is this a moment where credit is given or credit is due? Or, is this more hand waving? Curious to your thoughts. Thanks, guys.
- KSKara Swisher
Scott, why don't you take this quickly?
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, I would like to see a tax holiday, um, on, on anyone making under a certain amount or people under the age of 40, similar to what Portugal's done. Uh, the problem is, will this come at the cost of Social Security? We need to, we need to hear more. I hope it's not populist bullshit. I need to do more, um, do more analysis. Uh, I think it makes a lot more sense than this ridiculous no tax on tips. The waiter gets a tax cut, but not the dishwasher. And the reality is, the majority of people in the services industry don't pay any taxes anyways 'cause they don't make enough money. But I just need to understand more about this. We'll see.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.Yeah, we'll see. I mean, and in concept it's a great idea. Um, and you know, uh, again, what's really the point is rich people need to pay more taxes. Like I, I, I don't know why that never gets-
- SGScott Galloway
And corporations.
- KSKara Swisher
Corporations. That's really what has to happen.
- SGScott Galloway
We're paying the lowest, lowest amount of GDP as represented by the taxes since 1939. And just, just a quick note on the last thing. People... It's worth noting that Americans in this income range who make less than $150,000, they pay more in payroll taxes than in income taxes.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, so hand waving for right now. Anyway, uh, you got a question of your own, go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Okay, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, look, I'm, I'm gonna go off script here and, um, I'm going to... I don't have a prediction, but I'm especially slow today because I was up till 4:00 AM, uh, binge watching all four, um, episodes of what I think is, uh, so far the, the media property, other than White Lotus, of course, the media property of 2025, or the media achievement. Have you seen Adolescence, Kara?
- KSKara Swisher
Uh, no, I haven't. No, I haven't seen it at all. I, I've heard about it. I've heard it's amazing and, and depressing and upsetting, but everyone... I've heard several people talk about it.
- SGScott Galloway
It is really powerful. So I'm not gonna give anything away here. It's a British crime drama miniseries from Jack Thorne and Stephen Graham and directed by Philip Barantini. It's about a 13-year-old school boy, uh, who's arrested for the murder of a female
- 49:46 – 55:07
Predictions/Recommendations
- SGScott Galloway
classmate and the in- interesting thing from a creative standpoint is each, each scene is shot in one take, and it is so powerful. It, it brings up social media. It's, you know, obviously, uh, uh, uh, violence, crime, father-son relationships, families, the impact of social media, um, the anxiety and depression that young people are dealing with. It is, it is... I- it's like if you wanted to explain to someone the stress that young people or adolescents are under and facing and what it means and how it ripples out in so many negative ways, it would be, it would be m- really hard to do it more efficiently than watching this, this four-part series. This is-
- KSKara Swisher
Can I ask a question? Is it, is it... 'Cause I tend to avoid these things now, even though I've heard a lot about this show and also Euphoria or any of these, there was a documentary about teens. Um, there's, there's all kinds of these things. I kind of avoid them because they're so upsetting to me. How do you deal with that? Because you're writing a book on it, obviously, which comes out when?
- SGScott Galloway
I'm moving it up.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, good.
- SGScott Galloway
I'm turning in my manuscript early. I'm hoping that it'll come out in November. It was supposed to be-
- KSKara Swisher
Great.
- SGScott Galloway
... spring next year, but I feel like the, the moment is gonna pass if I don't get it out soon.
- KSKara Swisher
No, you should, you've been reading all of them.
- SGScott Galloway
Josh Hawley is writing a book on masculinity. I mean-
- KSKara Swisher
What? Oh, no.
- SGScott Galloway
I got to get it out.
- KSKara Swisher
You need to, you need to dare him to a fight. But t- how, how is it watching these things? Because I think... I, I have noticed I have tended towards happy things when I'm watching things like... And Severance because it's so good, by the way, season ender this Friday. Um, I just... They either have to be really astonishing like Severance or very happy like Running Point, right? I can't... Talk a little bit, uh, this is you're writing a book on it. These topics are dire. How do you manage to feel hopeful watching any of this? And that's one of the reasons I avoided Adolescence.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, it's easy, Kara. I've leaned into my anger and my depression. (laughs) I mean, I'm not the person to talk to about maintaining a positive outlook. I struggle with this shit and what you... One of the things you referenced, which is a social norm, which is kind of interesting, is that in boom times or positive times, tragedies and dramas are more popular. And then in depressing times, romantic comedies are, are much more popular. People want to get out of the mood they're in.
- KSKara Swisher
Or like White Lotus, something that's like-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, that's just pure... That's just, that's just, that's just pure entertainment with some s- you know, some subculture. By the way, Sam Rockwell's, uh, monologue from last week is incredible.
- KSKara Swisher
I heard. I heard. I haven't seen it yet.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, uh, but this is... I mean, it talks a lot about, um, it talks a lot about school bullying via social media centered on incel subculture and people don't realize how powerful that is. This week's post I'm writing about porn, which I think is playing an unfortunately increasingly imp- uh-
- KSKara Swisher
Agreed.
- SGScott Galloway
... not important, large role in-
- KSKara Swisher
Agreed.
- SGScott Galloway
... in young men's lives. But this, if you, if you wanna... If you've read about this stuff but don't understand it and wonder, want to see how it's really impacting people on a ground level in an exceptionally compelling and gripping way... So, uh, but you asked me how I deal with it. I... To be honest, Kara, I'm having trouble dealing with it. I... For the first time in my life, I was thinking about this the other day, I've always been able to disassociate from the news. Since this last election, I'm having trouble disassociating. I'm, I'm, I'm just a ph- I'm that guy who's that fucking downer at a dinner party that turns everything into, "Well, yeah, has anyone-"
- KSKara Swisher
You are posting happy things on, on, I've noticed in threads.
- SGScott Galloway
I've got to. I've got to.
- KSKara Swisher
You really have. A lot of them are delightful, by the way.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, thanks.
- KSKara Swisher
Um, sorry. Yeah. Anyway, it's awesome.
- SGScott Galloway
But yeah, I'm not... So the answer is how do I, how do I handle this shit? The answer is not well. But this is such a powerful piece of media that it is... It's so satisfying because you feel as if you've learned and you can't... I wa- I watched... I, I turned the thing on at midnight, uh, and I was up till 4:00 in the morning. I just couldn't-
- KSKara Swisher
There you go.
- SGScott Galloway
Couldn't turn away from it.
- KSKara Swisher
All right. Adolescence is a recommendation and a prediction, I guess. Okay, elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe this week on Pravji Conversations, Scott spoke another happy thing with Dr. Fiona Hill, a senior fellow at Brookings, chancellor at Durham University, and former White House Russia expert who also testified during the, uh, impeachment hearings. Really smart, uh, person who worked for us and now does not. Uh, let's listen to a clip.
Episode duration: 55:08
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