Will Trump Triumph in Battle Against the Courts? | Pivot

Kara Swisher 0:00 And I'm sure there are lesbians who have Cybertrucks, but I'm not speaking to them anymore. (instrumental music) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

Scott Galloway 0:15 And I heard you're going on vacation.

Kara Swisher 0:18 I am, just for a sh- few short days.

Scott Galloway 0:20 For just-

Kara Swisher 0:21 A few short days, I'm taking-

Scott Galloway 0:21 ... I don't think I've ever known you-

Kara Swisher 0:22 ... the kids.

Scott Galloway 0:22 ... to go on a vacation.

Kara Swisher 0:23 I know, I know. Amanda required it. Um, she didn't require it actually. Um, my two younger kids have different vacations because they're at different schools, and this was the only crossover. And then, um, Louie's coming too. Alex just recently went on his own vacation so he's not coming. He's got school. Um, but yeah. I know. I'm gonna, like, not do anything for four days, which is probably not true, but I'll be probably be talking to you and so-

Scott Galloway 0:49 Well, you, you may be too old for this to really have an impact on you, but my wife claims that she just loves to fuck on vacation, which is-

Kara Swisher 0:56 Okay. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 0:56 ... it was kind of a weird postcard to get.

Kara Swisher 0:59 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:01 That's good!

Kara Swisher 1:02 Oh, my God. Where are you coming up with-

Scott Galloway 1:04 That's good!

Kara Swisher 1:04 ... all these bad jokes? Did you get a joke book for-

Scott Galloway 1:06 That's good. It's called the internet.

Kara Swisher 1:08 Did you get a joke book? Okay, all right.

Scott Galloway 1:09 What, what is the internet for other than watching videos?

Kara Swisher 1:11 I know, I know, I know.

Scott Galloway 1:12 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 1:12 But lately, there's been five or six really bad jokes.

Scott Galloway 1:16 Tracking, tracking the slow descent into fascism and funny jokes, that's it.

Kara Swisher 1:19 Yeah. That's true, that's true.

Scott Galloway 1:20 I, I am so pissed off. I believe... I'm that dad.

Kara Swisher 1:23 Yeah, yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:23 I send at least two dozen ridiculously hilarious memes to my sons every day, and I will see, I will wake, I will get up at 2:00 in the morning and find out that they still have not seen them, much less responded.

Kara Swisher 1:36 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:36 They don't even open or look at-

Kara Swisher 1:38 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:38 ... my memes anymore.

Kara Swisher 1:39 No. Text? You text them? My sons don't pay attention. "Oh, I didn't read your text. I didn't read your text," is the worst thing you can text me.

Scott Galloway 1:44 How can you not read a text?

Kara Swisher 1:46 I agree. I don't even understand.

Scott Galloway 1:47 I'm like, "What if the house is on fire?"

Kara Swisher 1:49 I know that. Well, you wouldn't text that, would you? Would you text that?

Scott Galloway 1:52 Uh, I don't know. I never thought about it.

Kara Swisher 1:53 "Hi, the house is on fire."

Scott Galloway 1:54 I never thought about it.

Kara Swisher 1:55 I'd probably call. Right, I don't know.

Scott Galloway 1:56 Anyways, are you staying at... w- what's the... is it the Four Seasons or the Ritz-Carlton down there, where are you staying?

Kara Swisher 2:00 No, no, no. We rented a Airbnb by the ocean, and so it's near El Yunque. Uh, Amanda loves Puerto Rico. I went there as a kid. I haven't been there in a long time. It's a beautiful place. Um, and, uh, and so it's near... it's on the beach, and it's near the beautiful rainforest there. So we're gonna go hiking, get Louie to cook obviously, 'cause he's now, he's now the babysitter and cook for the situation, um, and just relax for just a few days. It's just, it's not very long, but it's... I need it I think. I finally need it.

Scott Galloway 2:29 Oh, you've needed it for a few years, uh-

Kara Swisher 2:31 Yes. I haven't vacationed in a long time. When I vacation, I don't vacation for people who need to understand this. I don't take time off.

Scott Galloway 2:37 I'm pretty much on-

Kara Swisher 2:37 So-

Scott Galloway 2:37 ... an extended vacation. I'm, I'm not exaggerating. I think I vacation-

Kara Swisher 2:42 You are.

Scott Galloway 2:42 ... arguably like 15 to 20 weeks a year, and I'm planning to increase it.

Kara Swisher 2:45 Yeah. I know that. I'm aware. I'm aware-

Scott Galloway 2:47 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 2:47 ... of the entire thing. We're gonna have some guest hosts in a few weeks 'cause actually you're doing a thing with your kid, but that's different. That's a little bit-

Scott Galloway 2:53 College tour.

Kara Swisher 2:54 College tour. Oh my God. I'm literally-

Scott Galloway 2:56 Let's... Where are we going to next?

Kara Swisher 2:57 ... uh, speaking of texts.

Scott Galloway 2:57 Where are we going to next that you have absolutely no chance (laughs) of getting in?

Kara Swisher 3:01 No.

Scott Galloway 3:02 Uh.

Kara Swisher 3:02 Don't say that. It's hard to get in, but actually, I heard Harvard was off, like, in terms of applications.

Scott Galloway 3:06 Harvard. Oh my God.

Kara Swisher 3:08 But, you know, I'm just saying.

Scott Galloway 3:09 The, the... By the way, can we just-

Kara Swisher 3:10 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 3:10 ... can we just talk for a moment about Harvard?

Kara Swisher 3:12 Yes.

Scott Galloway 3:13 Okay.

Kara Swisher 3:13 Sure.

Scott Galloway 3:13 Harvard puts out this ridiculously, uh, this virtue signaling of all virtue sig- wokestan meets total virtue signaling bullshit.

Kara Swisher 3:22 Oh my God. Stop with the wokestan. I'm...

Scott Galloway 3:23 Okay. They announced that anyone, any family under, that makes less than $200,000 gets-

Kara Swisher 3:29 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 3:29 ... free tuition. Well, aren't they just fucking amazing? But here's the thing. I think I did the math. Okay, so you have about 1,500 students. I bet maybe a third in- come from families that make less than $200,000 and of those, they would've gotten some financial aid so call it, call it, I don't know, 500 kids are gonna get a $50,000 benefit, and that's being really, really generous. I think it comes out to about $20 or $25 million.

Kara Swisher 3:55 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 3:56 Okay.

Kara Swisher 3:56 So it's not that big a deal.

Scott Galloway 3:57 So they have a $53 billion endowment. If it's-

Kara Swisher 3:59 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 3:59 ... matching, if it's matching the market, it's doing about $4 billion a year, so they've decided to step up and give a whopping, um, what is that? A whopping half a percent and put out a press release rather than taking some of that $52 billion and stop acting like rejectionist, exclusionary, self-important jerks-

Kara Swisher 4:19 And expand their things, yeah.

Scott Galloway 4:20 ... and expand the number (laughs) afforded.

Kara Swisher 4:21 Um-

Scott Galloway 4:21 And here's what it is. Uh, uh, uh, just give me a second here.

Kara Swisher 4:24 All right. I wanted to check.

Scott Galloway 4:24 It makes things even worse because this is what's happening in America. If you're the son of somebody who's rich or the daughter of someone who's rich or freakishly-

Kara Swisher 4:31 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 4:31 ... fucking remarkable, you not only get into an amazing university, you get to go for free. But the rest-

Kara Swisher 4:36 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 4:36 ... the n- the other 99.9% of America gets arb'd down to a mediocre school that doesn't have a $53 billion endowment. This is nothing but making everything worse in terms of income inequality, and yet they have the fucking nads-

Kara Swisher 4:49 They do.

Scott Galloway 4:49 ... to put out a thing acting as if they're doing-

Kara Swisher 4:51 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 4:51 ... the world a service. Here's what you do, folks. You take some of that $52 billion endowment and you make your freshman class bigger than what a good Starbucks serves. Dartmouth has an $8 billion endowment.

Kara Swisher 5:01 I would agree. Uh, uh, it l- uh, ex- except for your obsession with wokestan in colleges 'cause I think they're mostly beaten down by now, so I think we can move along on that issue. I think that has been-

Scott Galloway 5:10 Oh, I don't think so.

Kara Swisher 5:11 ... sucked down. Okay, in any case, I think... A lot of colleges do do this for people who don't know. It's not a new and fresh idea from Harvard. That was this thing I was, uh, I was not aware of, and i- it is true. And if you make under a certain amount, you get the whole thing free, right? That was if you get in. If you get in.

Scott Galloway 5:29 Pricing at elite universities is the following. The- there's the, there's the sticker price, which is for foreign students and rich people so they can charge them a ridiculous amount of money, and almost everybody else does not pay the sticker price. And the problem with these elite universities that, that hoard this amazing drug called higher education is that they have so much money-... that it means absolutely nothing for the, y-y-y-you- if you get into Princeton or Harvard, (laughs) it doesn't matter how much money. If you have enough money then d- don't worry about it. If you don't, you will absolutely get financial aid. It's the other 99% of our youth that has to go to a university that doesn't have these enormous endowments, that has to go into student debt, end up with a degree in Philosophy from a Joey Bag o' Doughnuts university that they can't not only pay off, but is one of the few, few forms of debt that is not dischargeable in bankruptcy.

Kara Swisher 6:17 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 6:17 And they wanna put out a press release acting like, "We'll fucking smell you, Harvard. Aren't you-"

Kara Swisher 6:22 Okay. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 6:22 "Aren't you good people?"

Kara Swisher 6:24 Okay. Uh, you know I'm going to Puerto Rico? Did I tell you that?

Scott Galloway 6:26 Oh yeah, sorry, go ahead.

Kara Swisher 6:27 It's gonna be really fun, I'm gonna say-

Scott Galloway 6:27 Go ahead.

Kara Swisher 6:28 ... I'm gonna, I'm gonna-

Scott Galloway 6:28 Lotta sunblock. Lotta sunblock.

Kara Swisher 6:30 Sunblock. Sunblock, sunblock. They are also under siege by the government right now too, let's just put it, we've got a lot to get to today-

Scott Galloway 6:35 Under siege.

Kara Swisher 6:36 ... including more president siege.

Scott Galloway 6:37 Under siege, yeah, they're-

Kara Swisher 6:38 Eh, come on, stop it. Trump is acting like a total asshole. We've got a lot to get to today, including more presidential power grabs, the Chinese EV company putting Tesla on blast, and the fast fashion war claims its latest victim. By the way, I, I had a little text thing with Jessica, uh, Jess Tarloff, uh, she'll come to Paris with me, just, I'm just saying.

Scott Galloway 6:57 Yeah, you two, she's-

Kara Swisher 6:59 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 6:59 She's, she has a-

Kara Swisher 7:00 I'm gonna take-

Scott Galloway 7:00 You guys have-

Kara Swisher 7:00 ... I'm gonna steal you from her.

Scott Galloway 7:01 ... kind of a little bit of a crush.

Kara Swisher 7:03 Because she'll steal her from you.

Scott Galloway 7:03 You guys have a little bit of a crush on her. Yeah, yeah.

Kara Swisher 7:06 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 7:07 You know it's-

Kara Swisher 7:07 Really?

Scott Galloway 7:08 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 7:09 Okay, all right. Okay.

Scott Galloway 7:09 Yeah, yeah, you two like each other.

Kara Swisher 7:09 No, I just thought that she was teasing. She goes, "I can't believe you won't go to Pari-" W- now, you know that there was a movie where all the, uh, people who had affairs with a guy got together and took revenge on him? It's with Cameron Diaz and, oh my God, what's that movie called? Uh, anyway, uh, that's what's happening here, all your exes are getting together and we're gonna take revenge on you. All right.

Scott Galloway 7:27 Well, we could fit all those people in a closet, I mean- (laughs)

Kara Swisher 7:30 That is correct.

Scott Galloway 7:30 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 7:31 That is correct.

Scott Galloway 7:31 The, the line is long of lovers of the dog.

Kara Swisher 7:34 It would be fun, I know, wouldn't it? (laughs)

Scott Galloway 7:34 That's right.

Kara Swisher 7:36 In any case.

Scott Galloway 7:36 That's right.

Kara Swisher 7:37 In any case, um-

Scott Galloway 7:37 Almost all of them still have their teeth.

Kara Swisher 7:39 Yeah, okay. Uh, anyway, let's bring it back. All right, first,

Kara Swisher 7:43 let's, th- speaking of losing, uh, the judiciary is really pushing back on Donald Trump. Chief Justice John Roberts clapping back against President Trump. Earlier this week, Trump called for the impeachment of a district judge who'd ruled against him over, uh, the deportation of Venezuelans, which led Roberts to issue a very rare response. Let me read part of it. "For the two, for more than two centuries it has been established that impeachment is not an appropriate response to disagreement concerning a judicial decision. The normal app, uh, appellate review process exists for that purpose." It's a little bit weak sauce, but there it was. Uh, when GOP representatives introduced articles of impeachment against the judge, let's listen to what President Trump had to say about it on Laura Ingraham.

Narrator 8:21 We have very bad judges, and these are judges that shouldn't be allowed. I think they, I think at a certain point, you have to start looking at what do you do when you have a rogue judge? The judge that we're talking about, he's, uh, you look at his other rulings, I mean, rulings unrelated, but having to do with me, he's a lunatic.

Kara Swisher 8:41 This is what he said about every judge who deals with him. This is just a typical thing he does, is insults the judges in any way. According to a sworn filing in an Immigration and Customs Enforcement official, many of those deported did not have criminal records. It's really quite amazing. They just grab people. Um, th- th- he's lost, I think, six times with judges. So again, appellate courts are the way you win here, Donald Trump. You na- you tend not to win, because what you do is illegal. But, um, but anyway, this is a major showdown and he's setting up a real fight with the Supreme Court, 'cause all of these are gonna eventually get to the Supreme Court. Any thoughts?

Scott Galloway 9:17 Well, this is, I, I think probably one of the most significant historical events happened kind of, it got some coverage, but I don't think people realized how important it was. And that is, the White House essentially defied a court order and, um, let those planes carrying, um, carrying the people they wanted deported, some of whom had done nothing but had the wrong tattoo, and then they created what I think is basically a Republican snuff film. Did you see the video of them being-

Kara Swisher 9:43 Yes.

Scott Galloway 9:43 ... dragged off planes?

Kara Swisher 9:45 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 9:45 I mean-

Kara Swisher 9:45 That was by the guy who runs El Salvador, who seems like an asshole. Um, that, I think that was his with the music. I think he put them up.

Scott Galloway 9:53 Well, I mean, El Salvador's a really interesting situation what's happened there, but that's another talk show. But-

Kara Swisher 9:57 No.

Scott Galloway 9:58 ... w- effectively, if the, if the White House is gonna ignore court orders, the question is well, okay, what power does the judiciary or the, or the court have if they start violating court orders? And what the power they have is they could say, "All right, if you carry out these, if, if you actively or the individuals define these court orders, we can put you in jail or fine you." But the problem is, the president can then pardon them. So i- if you have... We're in unchartered territories. We, look, we have a criminal as president and, uh, y- you know, this is a convicted felon, someone who appears to have absolutely no regard for the law, who's set or seems comfortable carving up the world with another mob boss, another autocrat, who has now defied court orders. And if he has the power of the pardon, and can threaten judges, and i- uh, appears to be comfortable defying court orders, then folks, you know, i- it might feel good, right? A, a decent number of Democrats and Republicans have both said in polls they'd be comfortable with an autocrat as long as he or she agreed with their views. All right, just wait until that knock on the door comes for you and your nephew or your outspoken, um, friend on politics is kind of disappeared, is shipped off, is put on a plane to somewhere where they don't, aren't protected by the law, is incarcerated without due process, has their livelihood taken away and has no recourse. I mean, they're, i- it's really interesting that y- they are doing exactly what they said they would do. When he said, "I will concede the election if I win," that was a blatant, "I'm going to be an autocrat." And everyone is like, "Oh, isn't that funny? Isn't that cute? He doesn't really mean it." He's pretty much done everything he said he was gonna do. But if, if the courts are neutered by the power of the pardon or President or an administration, supported by one party that controls Congress a-... it says it's okay to violate court orders?

Kara Swisher 12:01 Yeah. I agree.

Scott Galloway 12:02 We're, we're essentially done.

Kara Swisher 12:03 Well, I think that's why, why Roberts did that, is, is issuing a warning, because he lost, he's lost in the Supreme Court several times recently, especially 'cause of, uh, Amy Coney Barrett and Roberts together with the liberal wing of the party. It keeps being five-four. And I think that, uh, he doesn't seem to... He, it, the, the Supreme Court orders, he's, has yet to over not do. The issue is he's also the enforcer of these things, and so... And J., uh, J.D. Vance keeps quoting Andrew Jackson, "Let him enforce it. If he wants to say this, let him enforce it." What, what's also, you know, really... It, it's just, it's, this is what he's doing, and he's, he... What he's doing is he's raising... He goes, "You wouldn't, uh, you can't do that. However, we have bad judges." The only judge he likes is A- Eileen Cannon, who does whatever he wants, right? Anything that's for him. And she's a, she's an incompetent, uh, judge, essentially, but she gets to stay there until they remove her. Uh, and she can be overturned on, uh, uh, appellate court, and that's the whole system, which is what Roberts was talking about. But we'll see how far he goes here. Like, he's already gone very, very far down the line and, and his little handmaidens to sedition like, uh, uh, Laura Ingraham i- is, are, are really disturbing. Like, it's a disturbing thing to agree, uh, that you're gonna attack judges. Now, in other countries where they've tried this, th- the guys, typically, they don't win. The courts tend to win. Um, but we'll see. We'll see what happens.

Scott Galloway 13:24 Look what's going on in Hungary, I mean, for-

Kara Swisher 13:26 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 13:26 ... I mean, Viktor Orbán, who's sort of the role model or the idol here-

Kara Swisher 13:30 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 13:30 ... for how Trump is executing his presidential powers, there are, there's real, there's an enormous protests-

Kara Swisher 13:37 Protests. That's what's taking happen.

Scott Galloway 13:37 ... in Hungary, which is actually really hopeful, um-

Kara Swisher 13:40 I do too. I see the future of the GOP right here. Right here it is. He can only do so much. We'll see what happens, and I think Roberts is a critically important character, he, even though most people think he's a, he's a, he's a, a limp noodle. Um, but he did that, and that, for him, that was like screaming, I think, I believe, according to lawyers I know. Um, in another power... And by the way, he keeps l- Trump has lost and lost and lost yesterday particularly over and over and over again. Uh-

Scott Galloway 14:03 But the question then becomes, does that mean anything when you lose if they just stop, if they just-

Kara Swisher 14:08 Correct.

Scott Galloway 14:08 ... start ignoring those, those (laughs) , those court decisions.

Kara Swisher 14:10 Correct. Right. He, I think he has started to not ignore them on some things, and the others, they play fast and cute, especially that border czar, Tom Homan. What a clown. Anyway,

Kara Swisher 14:20 uh, President Trump just, uh, fired, by the way, the two Democratic members of the FTC, which is very illegal, saying, "Their services is inconsistent with my administration's policies." That's right, 'cause they're Democrats. Uh, just for people to know, the FTC typically has five members with the president's party holding three of those seats. Uh, th- th- they're seven-year terms. You can't fire them unl- except for gross incompetence, not "inconsistent with my administration's policies." That's the whole point of having two members be from a different party. The two fired Democrats, Rebecca Kelly Slaughter, who I know very well, and, uh, Al- uh, Alvaro Bedoya plan to challenge Trump's decision in court, obviously. Bedoya told the New York Times, "When people hear the news, they need not think about me. They need to think about the billionaires behind, uh, the president and his inauguration," and that's exactly what this is. Um, this is a payback to, uh, to the, to the people who, uh, who sat in fr- on the front row. Um, FTC is investigating all of these companies. Whether you agree with them or not, they'll lose in court if they're not. They don't have a good case, again, um, so, uh, you know, and the guy who runs the FTC is such a unctuous toady, uh, A- Andrew Ferguson, let me name him, you're an unctuous toady, um, to allow these people... They already ha- they're gonna have a, a, a dominance, they need to add one more person to the, uh, FTC, but they're gonna have a dominance anyway, so I don't know why they need to do this. Um, but, uh, it really does. It s- feels like payback to, to everybody standing up there, uh, Trump, all the tech billionaires, uh, in terms of, of antitrust cases and everything else. Even if you didn't agree with Lina Khan, uh, that's the whole point here is the person, the com- uh, party in power gets to decide, and this is just a wholesale, um, giveaway to the billionaires, um, again, once again.

Scott Galloway 16:04 Yeah, you have essentially w- what, what people or what Democrats have failed to do is connect antitrust with lower inflation.

Kara Swisher 16:13 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 16:13 And that is, it's no accident that Google announced they were going to acquire (clears throat) , I think it was called Wizz Company-

Kara Swisher 16:22 Wizz.

Scott Galloway 16:22 ... uh, last year, and the FTC and DOJ said, "We have some concerns," and they called it off. And, um, uh-

Kara Swisher 16:29 What just happened.

Scott Galloway 16:29 ... Wizz filed to go public. Now, had Biden been reelected, or excuse me, Harris been elected, it's likely that Wizz would've gone public and Google would've had a competitor, which would've meant that enterprises that use these products would've had more options, which results in competition, which results in lower prices. But because, uh, Trump was elected, the FTC and the DOJ have effectively have an entirely different complexion now in terms of the bar or how high the bar needs to be to file an action to block a merger and acquisition, and what do you know? Google came back and said, "Let's, let's acquire this company." So, uh, under the Biden administration, uh, you know, last year was a record low for M&A, but you're gonna see a lot, you're gonna see a further consolidation of power. And one of the biggest issues facing our economy is really boring. You know, it's the boring stuff that moves the needle, and it's the fact that across everything from home renovations to chicken to things like fertilizer, much less digital media, there are a small handful of companies that control the entire market, and the result is, in concentrated industries, they can charge higher rents on corporations and on consumers. So if you want... I mean, it sounds really boring, but if you want inflation to come down over the medium and the long term, you want a really robust FTC and DOJ, and they're no longer that. They're basically there to say, "Okay." Jonathan Kanro, who I had on the pod- uh, podcast, was more optimistic. He said that a lot of people still at the FTC and the DOJ are not exactly, they're not just gonna roll over.

Kara Swisher 18:02 They are.

Scott Galloway 18:02 Um, but-

Kara Swisher 18:03 Yeah, especially the DOJ.

Scott Galloway 18:04 But I would, uh, uh, uh, we still haven't been able to effectively, um, on the left, communicate (laughs) that M&A, while, uh, it, it feels like capitalism and it's more macho and get out of the way of companies...There are a surpri- we have seven companies basically driving the stock market right now.

Kara Swisher 18:23 Yeah. Well-

Scott Galloway 18:23 We, we need... Sorry, go ahead, Kara.

Kara Swisher 18:25 G- Google bought the Wiz for $32 billion, for people who don't know. It's a security cloud, uh, company, cloud security startup.

Scott Galloway 18:31 I think it's their biggest acquisition ever.

Kara Swisher 18:32 It is. It's, it's, it's enormous? It's an enormous... Uh, obviously Microsoft and Amazon have been doing great in the cloud services area, and so Google wanted to beef it up. There is competition here, but this is a crazy... This is... A lot of people feel, um, you know, they were gonna buy it for $23 billion last year, but there was concerns from fedu- federal, like, regulators, um, and, and the... E- especially, uh, about the f- the need for more competition, i- including with Amazon and Microsoft, so now it does boil down to three, right? All the time, it boils down to two to three. Um, so it's, it really is anti-competitive, um, because it's one of the most fast-growing software companies in the world right now. So, it's taking out, again, a really, a r- a, a robust competitor, um, which is really something to see.

Scott Galloway 19:21 Well, when companies-

Kara Swisher 19:24 Sorry.

Scott Galloway 19:24 Uh, uh, so it's not... Okay, it's their biggest, it's their biggest acquisition ever. It's only a 1.5% dilution to their stock price. They have a $2 trillion market cap. They can make a $30 billion acquisition. I mean, these companies, these companies are just so enormous and have so much capital that they can... I mean, quite frankly, they could afford to buy this, and they're not going to do it here, but they could afford to buy this and do an acro kill, and just kill it if they were bothering them, because a 1.5% dilution of the stock price is just not... Quite frankly, $32 billion is, dollars is a lot of money. A dilution of 1.5% of your outstanding stock is not. And these companies, these big companies have such an advantage because the reality is, if they see any sort of strategic reason whatsoever to acquire a company, uh, i- e- no one else can compete. (laughs) It just, there's a small handful of companies that have multi-trillion dollar market caps, they... You just can't... It, it's just like when the kingdom decides they're bidding on the World Cup, no other bidder even shows up-

Kara Swisher 20:23 Right.

Scott Galloway 20:23 ... because every other country is like, "Why bother? Why?" (laughs)

Kara Swisher 20:27 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 20:27 "Why even, why even go through the hassle of finding the former governor of the province of Brazil or whatever, putting together a team, putting together a group of people, putting our best foot forward? Why even bother when we know the kingdom is showing up?" And if-

Kara Swisher 20:40 Wow.

Scott Galloway 20:40 ... one of these players shows up for an acquisition, it... No.

Kara Swisher 20:44 It's over. It's over.

Scott Galloway 20:44 It's over. It's done.

Kara Swisher 20:45 FTC Chairperson Ferguson, again, Unctuous Toady, uh, his, his new nickname, posted a statement on X saying he had no doubts about Trump's constitutional authority to remove commissioners. Oh my God. It d- it literally says he can't remove commissioners. It's, it's so weird. It's like them, like, saying, "Oh, president..." Uh, someone in Meta, um, uh, MAGA are saying, um, you can, uh, president can stay three terms, and I was like, "The 22nd Amendment says you can't," and these people are arguing the Constitution says you can't. Literally the opposite of what it says, they say, and it's so irritating. K- Senator Maria Cantwell and Amy Klobuchar, by the way, uh, who, w- who serve on the committees that oversee the FTC even though they don't have power right now, President Trump's dismissal of Commissioner Slaughter and Bedoya are not only illegal but also hurts consumers by undermining an independent agency that Congress established to protect consumers from fraud, scams, and monopoly power. Now, the FTC is moving forward with its, uh, Meta, uh, lawsuits. Uh, he said, uh, F- Ferguson said, uh, they're gonna move forward, uh, with, with Meta. Uh, we'll see. We'll see. Um, uh, I think that's probably their strongest case. And again, if they, they can move forward with these things, and if they lose, they lose, right? Um, so, uh, you know, we'll see how, um, how much they're going forward. So I guess Mark Zuckerberg's appearance didn't help as much as the others, uh, essentially. Anyway, um, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Starlink gets installed at the White House. Even worse, it... God, it just gets worse

Kara Swisher 22:13 and worse. Scott, we're back. Starlink is now accessible at the White House. White House officials said the move was an effort to increase internet availability, saying some areas of the property couldn't get cell service. Uh, this is nonsense. Th- that system was reportedly routed through the White House data center. Officials said Starlink donated the service, and the gift was vetted by lawyers overseeing ethics issues at the White House Counsel's Office. So many tech people say this is really dangerous (laughs) . Like, I just, I can't even tell you. It's like putting, like, Putin's, uh, uh, y- you know, his listening device in the White House, and just opens everything up, but lots and lots of tech people are like, "Ooh, this is not something you want to happen on the White House grounds." But presumably they already have a direct line, so I don't know. What do you think? It's also ethically ridiculous.

Scott Galloway 22:58 Well, it's more just sort of the White House is turning into a giant infomercial for its political allies, but in addition, I-

Kara Swisher 23:05 Mm-hmm. Yes, you're right.

Scott Galloway 23:06 ... I think it's stupid of SpaceX and Starlink. Uh, Starlink, I absolutely love Starlink. I think it's an amazing product, it's a superior product, and its competitors all of a sudden have seen their stock prices surge and have access to capital to potentially at some point be a competitor. I think Jeff Bezos, I think everyone is eyeing this space going, "These guys have created an opening because, because of, um, Musk kind of over-political activity, uh, I'm now thinking, 'How do I get rid of,' or, 'How do I not use Starlink?'" And th- I, I, I just think this is a dumb move for them. I think, um, people are, you, that... He is alienating 52% of the population overnight with his products, and I just wanna give a shout-out to me. I sold my Tesla before it was cool three years ago.

Kara Swisher 23:51 You did. I remember.

Scott Galloway 23:52 And i- y- uh, I don't know if you saw the, uh, Senator Kelly just did a, just did, made a big deal of him selling his Tesla. Uh, this is next. Starlink, i- if you, y- they basically decided to politicize this product, and I think just on an economic level, shareholders... SpaceX is one of the most actively traded and most valuable private companies on the secondary market. It's also responsible now for the majority...It's the largest source of wealth now for, um, Musk, because he owns so much of it. And it's an incredible product, but it's, it's, it looks like it's gonna go the same way of Tesla, and that is, it's attracting a ton of competition. People will catch up, and then people given sort of a coin flip, uh, or a tiebreaker will opt for the company that's not run-

Kara Swisher 24:40 Yeah. I agree.

Scott Galloway 24:40 ... by someone whose politics they don't agree with. So, I think it's a stupid move.

Kara Swisher 24:44 I just don't know why they... uh, the security issues to me are... but whatever. They, they can get whatever they want from this guy, the Russians. You can imagine this creates a more porous environment, which is maybe the point. Um,

Kara Swisher 24:55 uh, another thing that I think, I thought of you when I read it, was the HHS has removed... another thing they're doing besides making us less secure is also, uh, from a technical point of view, is removing information from websites, all, all over the government, that is, you know, mentions people. And there's two things that really stood out. The first, uh, the HHS has removed the Surgeon General's advisory on gun violence from its website. A spokesperson for the agency said the content was removed to comply with Trump's executive order to protect Second Amendment rights. Firearms are the leading cause of death for children and teens in the US. Also recently removed, this was heinous, articles about Native American code talkers have been removed from some military websites, include, having been labeled DEI. The Navajo code talkers aided America's victory at Iwo Jima, historically, a critically important, uh, group of people who did this. Um, and I think they, they just... they're removing all kinds of things that... well, they... some words don't work, and they end up removing the wrong thing, because they have a list of fucking words that don't work. Instead of going through this kind of thing, they just do this wholesale, you know, cut and paste, essentially. Uh, re- replacing this information is gonna be very difficult over time, because it will be replaced eventually. But the, but between the firearms and these code talkers, it's, uh, uh, I feel like I'm living in 1984, like in the, in the book 1984. I don't know how you feel.

Scott Galloway 26:14 This is... I mean, again, it's difficult to know where to focus, because the, you know, the hits keep on coming. But as you referenced, number one source of death for children in the United States, past accidents, cancer, drowning, drug poisonings, is now firearms. And as someone who left the US 18 or 20, um, two and a half years ago, I'm just telling you, a free gift with purchase living in the UK is you don't have these horror fantasies involving gun deaths or mass shooters. And-

Kara Swisher 26:44 Yeah, you talk about that.

Scott Galloway 26:45 54% of US adults report that either they or a family member have experienced a firearm-related incident. Uh, one in five have a family member who was killed by a firearm, including suicide. It... and then going back to... uh, I always like to ground everything in a personal parable. When I sold my first company, Prophet, um, there was a, like a 20-year anniversary of the company. I started the company when I was 26, and me and the other co-founder were not invited. The, the, the CEO wanted it to be all about him. Fine, okay, have at it. And we used to joke that we were like... that we were living in a fascist state and we were Trotsky being erased from photos. And even we heard about them showing up to clients and, and referring to themselves as the founders. Like, we were literally erased from the, the scrolls of history from this company, despite the fact that we had hired everybody wasn't... that was now claiming they were the founders. And to go back, to go back in history and say to the, you know, the two and a half million African-Americans that registered for the draft, the one million African-Americans that fought in World War II, the 33,000 Japanese-Americans who fought mostly in the European theater, despite the fact that maybe their parents had been sent to confinement camps, 120,000 Americans of Japanese ancestry, and, and, and then to not at least nod that many of them served in World War II. There was 20,000 Chinese-Americans. There were 44,000 Native Americans. Somewhere between five and 10% of the entire Indigenous population fought in World War II. A quarter of a million Filipino-Americans, 400,000 Hispanic-Americans. And to not acknowledge that is to not acknowledge one of the great... uh, one of the great victories, one of the great civil rights advancements i- i- in American history that makes our military so... The US military, I believe, is the most impressive organization in history. And a- across, you know, many of its achievements and many of its victories, it was also a tremendous means of progress in civil rights. Because there's something about wearing the same uniform and being dependent upon the guy or the gal next to you that has a tendency to make you look at each other for your character and your skills and nothing else. And the armed services have been an outstanding means of progress for special interest groups. And to remove their commitment and their sacrifice, it, it's just so un-American. And it basically-

Kara Swisher 29:16 It's un-American, it's petty and it's cruel and it's weird.

Scott Galloway 29:19 (laughs) .

Kara Swisher 29:19 It's just weird. It's just so weird. I mean, especially these now... uh, uh, the gun stuff is... it, it... beyond belief. It's just a fact. And I think what's, what's really... you know, it... obviously, it's yet another attempt, like with the judges. This has a theme, everybody. You remove the judges, you remove information, you only tell people... I don't think it works at all. I honestly don't. I think people are sick and tired of this and they get it. And Americans are a uniquely difficult group of people. And so I don't think it works. I don't think it, it holds. I think in other countries sometimes it does. But in this one, I think people get furious about especially stuff like this. Um, I mean, literally just to... they, they have one issue with DEI and they cannot stop. That's the thing. They cannot stop with one or two things. They've got to completely erase everything, especially this cut and paste of words. Like, they... I forget what they took out, some dumb thing, and-But that's beyond bel- this is, this to me is ridiculous. And everyone, everyone knows that gun violence kills kids. That's it. There's, I don't care how many things they take down, everybody knows, and everyone's aware of it, and they will pay the price here for going overboard on almost everything. Um-

Scott Galloway 30:27 Well, we hope, we hope they'll pay the price.

Kara Swisher 30:28 I think they will pay the price.

Scott Galloway 30:29 So far they, so far they, so far they haven't. We keep, we keep hoping and waiting. But just back to the, the erasing people from photos of history-

Kara Swisher 30:38 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 30:38 ...and a really positive part of our history. You're going to Puerto Rico? 53,000 Puerto Ricans fought in World War II.

Kara Swisher 30:43 Mm-hmm. I love all your stats, Scott.

Scott Galloway 30:44 400,000 Hispanic Americans-

Kara Swisher 30:47 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 30:47 ...including 350,000 Mexican-Americans.

Kara Swisher 30:50 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 30:50 These are people who came here, felt really fortunate to be a part of this great experiment called America, and decided to put themselves, uh, you know, in ri- risk bodily harm to serve in a uniform, to fight for the rights of all Americans, and we're, we're erasing them from, from history? Uh, it's, it's just, it's very strange and self-defeating. And how, how likely are people going to be to raise their hand and say, "I will fight for my country," thinking that at some point, my contribution (laughs) might be starched from history. It's, uh, uh, it's very disappointing-

Kara Swisher 31:25 No.

Scott Galloway 31:25 ...to say the least.

Kara Swisher 31:25 And it's very typical, it's not a surprise. I think karma's a bitch. I think putting people in jail that never had a criminal record without due process, everything is, karma's gonna be such a bitch here. I, I, I just believe that, 'cause they, it's one thing after the next where, uh, injustice happens. And so we'll see. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about, uh, BYD's big breakthrough. Scott, we're

Kara Swisher 31:47 back. Chinese EV company BYD is promoting a new fast charging technology that can allegedly add 250-mile range in a five-minute charge. Woo, I was very excited about this. The new battery and charging system will be used, uh, in BYD's next generation vehicles, and the company plans to build more than 4,000 ultra-fast chargers across China. This puts BYD well ahead of Tesla, whose Superchargers currently add around 170 miles on a range, of range for a 15-minute charge. It takes longer than that, just so you know. BYD, uh, shares hit re- record high yesterday on the news. The company is up more than 50% for the year with a hundred and, uh, $60 billion market cap, as Tesla is down 30 some percent, 37%. It goes up and down, but it's mostly, uh, 30% for the year. Um, is this Tesla's Deep Seek moment? Tesla stock is currently headed for its ninth straight weekly loss. It's now 53% below all-time highs. Statistically, everybody's gaining, including US, uh, makers of EVs, uh, all over the place. Uh, and Tesla's losing, uh, market share. And of course, there's the protests that go on across the country. Um, Attorney General... Uh, but they're trying to, he's trying to get an assist from Attorney General Pam Bondi, who's labeling recent attacks on Tesla dealerships an act of domestic terrorism directed at Elon Musk, who was weeping about it on Fox News, saying he's only done lovely things for people his whole life and he's never been violent, i.e., well, fine. He's created the situation where people die, but that's, whatever you say, Elon. Bondi said in a statement that, "The DA- DOJ will investigate these incidents and impose severe consequences on the people involved." There's definitely an organized m- protest ac- across, interestingly by the person paying for it is the wife of Steve Jurvetson, his, who was Elon's pal, the ex-wife, uh, who's a big Democratic donor is helping, uh, you know, uh, helping get these things organized, uh, these, these protests. Which is perfectly within the rights of her and the protestors to do. Obviously not within the rights are, um, ar- are violence, but they're certainly allowed to cause all kinds of ruckuses in front of these places and put up Nazi pictures of Elon and stuff like that. So, these two things, BYD is just doing the inno- on one hand, BYD is doing the innovative things Tesla should be doing if its CEO was paying attention. And secondly, if people don't like Elon Musk, they can protest against him, and for the Attorney General to call it domestic terrorism is really beyond the pale. Again, an ad for Elon Musk by the President, his own personal Attorney General.

Scott Galloway 34:14 In the first two months of this year, Tesla sold 60,000 vehicles, BYD sold 481,000. And that represents-

Kara Swisher 34:24 That's amazing.

Scott Galloway 34:25 ...that represents a 75% increase year on year of BYD, and a 14% decline for Tesla. And despite Tesla losing, you know, a third of its value in the last month, it's still, it, if, if Tesla trades like other car companies that are growing at the same rate, which is declining, n- and now the majority of car companies are growing faster than Tesla. That puts its stock at about $14 a share. So, the notion that somehow (laughs) Tesla's been, has had some market correction, we haven't even-

Kara Swisher 35:00 Still hasn't.

Scott Galloway 35:00 ...seen a correction.

Kara Swisher 35:02 And the protests, what do you think of the protests? They continue, they haven't stopped, which is really interesting.

Scott Galloway 35:07 I'm, look, I, I'm, it tickles my sensors. Um, uh, I, I like, uh, I'm, I'm of two minds, and that is I don't think people should damage physical property. I joke that whenever I get a Tesla, I cancel or I let it wait outside. I have started canceling when I get Teslas and I try to put it in the notes although you can't on Uber. Um, I don't think people should deface property. I don't, I don't think people should feel unsafe in their cars. But, uh, protests, peaceful protest is an American right.

Kara Swisher 35:39 Or calling it Cybertruck owner an asshole. That's, that's, if you choose to buy it, I think that's perfectly fine. I think if it, as long as-

Scott Galloway 35:45 I can say I, I don't agree. I, I-

Kara Swisher 35:46 I do not agree.

Scott Galloway 35:46 You buy a Cybertruck, uh, I do think there needs to be-

Kara Swisher 35:50 It's such an obnoxious term.

Scott Galloway 35:51 ...for the benefit of all of us-

Kara Swisher 35:53 I don't do it.

Scott Galloway 35:53 ...I think we, I think we err on the side of civility. I do- I, quite frankly, I didn't like it when J.D. Vance gets booed on a ski mountain with his family. I, it tickles-

Kara Swisher 36:02 Hmm.

Scott Galloway 36:02 ...my sensors.... but I think that in America, ideally, you wanna err on the side of giving people some grace when they're out in public, I- including driving their car. I, I, I, I'm turning into an old person. I-

Kara Swisher 36:14 You are, because I think that's exactly what it is to be an American, and I think Americans do that. I think you pro-

Scott Galloway 36:18 Well-

Kara Swisher 36:18 I, I, I didn't mind when the, when all the Christians went nuts about Disney. They can protest. I didn't love the Nazis out front.

Scott Galloway 36:25 I'm not saying, I'm not saying you can't protest. What I'm saying-

Kara Swisher 36:27 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 36:27 ... is if someone is out skiing with their family, if someone is driving a car, I don't think verbally assaulting them or verbally screaming at them, that's your right. I'm not saying it's not legal, but it doesn't mean it's right. And I think one of the nice things about America is that we do have a certain level of comity or respect for each other. I was at a party, an F1 party in Las Vegas, and someone showed up wearing a MAGA hat. And that individual, a woman, was kind of immediately surrounded, and people started shouting at her. I did not think-

Kara Swisher 36:56 What?

Scott Galloway 36:56 ... that was right either.

Kara Swisher 36:59 Oh, that's silly.

Scott Galloway 36:59 They should be able to wear a MAGA hat, and-

Kara Swisher 37:01 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 37:02 ... I, I, I think we have to err on the side, when we're out in public, uh, err on the side of civility. You have the right to say things, but calling someone an asshole because they get out of a certain brand of car, uh, uh, it... We're just a slow burn into e- an erosion in everyone's quality of life.

Kara Swisher 37:17 I don't know, I think, I think it's sort of a long tradition of the United States doing this. I think you're, you're living in a country that doesn't... I mean, I, you know, I just, I, I feel like I don't love a lot of it, but at this... Cybertruck in particular is somewhat offensive to my eyes, and that's probably one of the reasons that compared to a lot of cars. Um, but, you know, you've been in a, in a line and some dick d- douche drives up in a Ferrari, who obviously is just rich and try- is compensating, and everyone goes, "Uh," like this under the breath, right? Instead of saying-

Scott Galloway 37:46 Yeah, but they don't start screaming, "Hey, you little dick weirdo." They just say, "Let him-"

Kara Swisher 37:49 Yes.

Scott Galloway 37:50 "... let him or her get his or her coffee-"

Kara Swisher 37:52 Yes.

Scott Galloway 37:52 "... and get about their day." I don't-

Kara Swisher 37:53 True.

Scott Galloway 37:54 Um-

Kara Swisher 37:54 True, true. I, I don't know. I think the protests in front of the, uh, in front of these, uh, Tesla showrooms are fine. I think that's, that's the way you express your lack of interest.

Scott Galloway 38:03 I agree. I think there's a difference between that and-

Kara Swisher 38:06 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 38:07 ... yelling at people while they're going about their day. I don't... Anyway, I-

Kara Swisher 38:11 All right, I'll stop yelling at you, Scott. Okay, fine. You want it? Fine. Uh, dick, dick.

Scott Galloway 38:17 There you go. There you go.

Kara Swisher 38:17 Uh, oh, I do this one.

Scott Galloway 38:18 I have to pay women to yell at me. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 38:21 (laughs) I should do that to you.

Scott Galloway 38:22 Yeah, yeah.

Kara Swisher 38:22 I don't know, Scott, I like your, like, niceness, but I think it's okay if people wanna express themselves. I think people get the message, that obviously a lot of people are selling them because they don't like being called assholes.

Scott Galloway 38:31 Yeah, but Kara, there's, there's places in-

Kara Swisher 38:33 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 38:33 ... there's very Republican-dominated, MAGA-loving parts of this country that I think you and I can go to, go about our day, and people generally say, "I don't agree with their politics. I, maybe I don't even think they're..."

Kara Swisher 38:44 Interesting.

Scott Galloway 38:44 "Maybe I even think Kara and Scott are bad for America, but I'm gonna let them get on with their day." And-

Kara Swisher 38:49 Uh, see, you live a different life than... I've been called a dyke in so many Southern states, I can't even tell you.

Scott Galloway 38:53 And that's wrong.

Kara Swisher 38:54 I-

Scott Galloway 38:54 And that's wrong.

Kara Swisher 38:55 Yes. I'm fi- I'm like, "Whatever, dude." Like, and I always, I always have a line. I always go... They'll, they'll say something like les- especially assuming the kids and things like that. Um, I would s- They'll, they'll say something and I'll go, "You're the alternative?" And then it tends to shut it down. But I have been attacked so many times in s- a- apparently civil states that... And I don't, I don't care. I don't care. I'm, like, I always have a line, and I feel sorry for them.

Scott Galloway 39:20 You should be able to have a certain confidence-

Kara Swisher 39:22 Yes, I should.

Scott Galloway 39:23 ... that in America, you're gonna be able to live your life without worrying about being verbally assaulted or treated with a lack of respect or dignity. That's what, that's what you do-

Kara Swisher 39:31 Ah.

Scott Galloway 39:31 ... in a civil society. That's what you do in America.

Kara Swisher 39:33 And that would be nice for all of us who aren't some people, but it doesn't happen, and it doesn't-

Scott Galloway 39:37 Well, again, I don't have your lived experience.

Kara Swisher 39:39 Yeah, yeah.

Scott Galloway 39:39 But don't you generally feel that you're, that you're fairly-

Kara Swisher 39:43 Well...

Scott Galloway 39:43 ... you can go about your day and... I mean, is that the case? Do you really feel like, in, in a lot of places?

Kara Swisher 39:48 Certain places, I don't go. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 39:49 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 39:49 I keep telling you this. I feel uncomfortable. I feel like if I say something about my kids, or, or Amanda and I express any affection in public, I'm very worried, and especially comments. It's always comments. And I, um, you know, I, i- i- it's something you think about in the back of your mind, and I think a lot of people, very different people think about it all the time. Women walking down a street at night.

Scott Galloway 40:11 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 40:11 You know, it just is-

Scott Galloway 40:12 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 40:12 ... it's a very different lived experience. But I, I, I always have a line back. I always, you know, 'cause I've gotten it so much. I always have, like, is, is, "Are you the alternative?" Um, blah, blah, blah. I have a bunch of them, um, that I do, and I... It's, it feels like, it's like breathing. You know, you, you, you endure it all the time. One time, um, it happens when I was with kids, "Who," you know, "who's the..." Not, "Who's the mother?" That's another one people love. "Who's the dad?" They always like to do that one, which is fine.

Scott Galloway 40:39 I just-

Kara Swisher 40:39 Whatever, they're ignorant.

Scott Galloway 40:40 Um, for, for people driving a certain car and for people of a different sexual orientation, I think that we should shame anyone that gives those people a hard time.

Kara Swisher 40:48 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 40:48 I don't...

Kara Swisher 40:49 What about a lesbian in a Cybertruck?

Scott Galloway 40:51 There you go.

Kara Swisher 40:52 What, do you do that? No, no.

Scott Galloway 40:52 That isn't that... If you'd said a lesbian in a Subaru, I would have said, "Well, that's redundant." Um, but-

Kara Swisher 40:57 Yeah, that's true. See? We don't mind. We're fine with it. I don't care. Um, but I, I, I'm sure there are lesbians who have Cybertrucks, but I'm not speaking to them anymore.

Scott Galloway 41:05 Uh, the thing that you gotta be r- really fearful of is that the LGBT starts a militia and they call themselves ALGADA.

Kara Swisher 41:11 Oh my God, it's Militia Etheridge. That's the term.

Scott Galloway 41:13 Oh, that's right. Sorry.

Kara Swisher 41:14 That's right.

Scott Galloway 41:14 Got it.

Kara Swisher 41:14 Anyway. ALGADA, that's very funny. I like that. Um,

Kara Swisher 41:18 so, uh, this is one that's sort of in your wheelhouse. Forever 21 filed for bankruptcy this week. Uh, the two t- second time in six years is, uh, this time putting the blame on fast fashion retailers, uh, Temu and, uh, Shein. In court filing, Forever 21 noted non-US retailers selling products at drastically lower prices made it difficult to retain a core customer base. The company plans to liquidate while looking for a buyer for its business or its assets. Uh, Shein and, uh, Temu are facing their own struggles with Trump's tariffs, though he delayed cracking down on the loophole that exempts low-cost items from getting taxed. Uh, he probably won't delay on it. Um, I, I don't know. I just think-... Forever 21 sucks, but-

Scott Galloway 41:56 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 41:56 ... what do you think here? I just think it sucks. (laughs) It just sucks.

Scott Galloway 41:59 I think you've summarized it.

Kara Swisher 41:59 And, and the other two don't. And the other two don't, even, even if they have advantages in China.

Scott Galloway 42:06 Uh, look, uh, I, I've said this, that a de minimis, a de minimis loophole that favors foreign retailers over domestic, fine. I can... I think there's an argument that they, they should do away with it, create a level playing field. I get that. But Forever 21, I group into a group of specialty retailers whose value proposition I would identify as dressing 15-year-old girls up like sluts. I just, I...

Kara Swisher 42:29 (laughs) God. (laughs) It's...

Scott Galloway 42:30 That, th-

Kara Swisher 42:31 I know that. I agree with you.

Scott Galloway 42:32 There was an entire genre of retailers who literally, like-

Kara Swisher 42:35 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 42:35 ... "Send your 15-year-old and we'll make her look like a slut." I mean, that's-

Kara Swisher 42:38 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 42:38 ... essentially what the fashion was, or the genre. It was, you know... Anyways, I don't-

Kara Swisher 42:44 I would agree. I ha-... I, I w-... I used to... I, I get some... Even today, (clears throat) when you're looking for kids clothes, a lot of the girls clothes are really questionable, and the boys' clothes rock. They're, like, so cool. They're, like, so interesting. And the girls' clothes are always like... Some of them are like, "Ooh." No, no, no.

Scott Galloway 43:01 I think it's Instagram.

Kara Swisher 43:02 Anyway.

Scott Galloway 43:02 I think it's the algorithm sexualizing girls, but anyways-

Kara Swisher 43:04 I'm talking about five-year-olds, yeah.

Scott Galloway 43:06 But, (sighs) look, i- i- there is... I mean, if you look at what's happening, and I love this, that if you look at over the past 20 years, inflation adjusted clothing prices have dropped about 50% and unit consumption has doubled. And this kinda connects back to antitrust. Th- the clothing and apparel industry is globalized, it's relatively tariff friendly, and it's incredibly robust, meaning there's a ton of competition. What does that mean? It means that Americans can buy more at a lower price. On an inflation adjusted basis, the price of apparel has been cut in half. And by the way, folks, when things get cut in half in price, it means your prosperity skyrockets. We want competition. We want... And if you, if you, if you don't realize what tariffs are gonna do, about 99% of our clothes... No, I'm sorry. 97% of our clothes-

Kara Swisher 43:58 Made abroad.

Scott Galloway 43:59 ... are made abroad. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 44:01 What, what's a good US retailer that competes with Shein and Temu? Like, w- who would you say? I mean, they're all the expensive ones, right? Uh, uh, Gap sort of doesn't even-

Scott Galloway 44:08 Oh, there's no low-cost maker. I remember-

Kara Swisher 44:10 There's no low-cost. There's expensive ones, like Hanna Andersson Rocks, or there's all kinds of really wonderful higher end children's clothing, for example. I'm, I'm just thinking of children's clothing. Um, but it's... I mean, I'm trying to think. H&M I like a lot. I like, um, the- the other one.

Scott Galloway 44:27 H&M's not US. Um, I mean-

Kara Swisher 44:29 Yeah, I know they're not US. It's the other one that's not-

Scott Galloway 44:31 The iconic... Look, the iconic US-

Kara Swisher 44:32 It's the one I buy T-shirts from.

Scott Galloway 44:33 The iconic US fashion specialty retailers are, in my opinion, Urban Outfitters. Urban and Free People are two of the hottest brands. But the majority, if not all, of their manufacturing is abroad. I remember... And i-... I always love an opportunity to have a professional flex. The first... One of the first consulting clients I had, one of my mentors was a guy named Warren Helman of Helman & Friedman, and he said, "I have a great assignment for you." I was, like, 27, and I'd started this, quote-unquote, "strategy firm." He said, "I want you to come to Levi Strauss & Company board meetings. I don't want you to talk to anybody. I want you to listen the entire board meeting, and then I want you to stand up and give your view." And it was me and a guy named Lee Clow from Chiat\Day got to do this for four board meetings. And one of the first things I said was they had, back in the '90s, Levi Strauss & Company still had domestic manufacturing, and the Haas family, who are very paternal and really civic-minded, were very committed to keeping domestic manufacturing. And the CFO got up there, and I... Uh, you know, I can do math. I said, "What is the cost per unit, uh, producing domestically?" And it was, like... I think it was 11 bucks a pair. And the cost, uh, to bring in the same quality from just across the border in Mexico, or I forget where we were, Honduras, was $3.80. And so, I'm like, "Okay, but just to be clear, uh, what you have decided is that you're giving people un- naturally, artificially high wages that once they're laid off, there's gonna be nowhere else to go." And eventually, of course, they outsourced all of their production. We are meant to go to the lowest cost provider for more prosperity. We need to maintain a certain level of domestic production. For example, the shoe industry has these ridiculous tariffs claiming that if we go to war, we need domestic manufacture of boots, which is just stupid, right? We could spin up a factory to build boots pretty quickly. But the clothing industry is an example of an increase in prosperity because we've globalized it and we don't have massive tariffs. So, uh, uh... I mean, it's, it's striking how Temu and Shein, like, one out of five things purchased over the holidays were from those two companies. But Forever 21, uh, you know, it just... Like you said, it just didn't... It just couldn't compete, nor should it. I, I like it when nations compete for our dollar.

Kara Swisher 46:44 It just sucked. It just sucked. Ugh, I never could go in that store. It was, like, terrible. And I like a cheap clothing store. In any case, um, we'll see what happens with the others. But obviously, as Scott said, it's global. All right, Scott, one more quick break.

Kara Swisher 46:56 Okay, Scott, let's pivot to a listener question.

Narrator 46:59 Hey Scott, Kara. It's Kyle from New York. Big fan of the show. I had a question about Trump's proposed federal income tax elimination for anyone making less than $150,000 a year. I've heard a lot of discussion recently about how Trump's economic policies really only benefit the wealthy and harm the younger, less wealthy portion of the population. This policy seems like it's in response to that discussion. I'm curious, from your perspective, is this a moment where credit is given or credit is due? Or, is this more hand waving? Curious to your thoughts. Thanks, guys.

Kara Swisher 47:41 Scott, why don't you take this quickly?

Scott Galloway 47:43 Uh, I would like to see a tax holiday, um, on, on anyone making under a certain amount or people under the age of 40, similar to what Portugal's done. Uh, the problem is, will this come at the cost of Social Security? We need to, we need to hear more. I hope it's not populist bullshit. I need to do more, um, do more analysis. Uh, I think it makes a lot more sense than this ridiculous no tax on tips. The waiter gets a tax cut, but not the dishwasher. And the reality is, the majority of people in the services industry don't pay any taxes anyways 'cause they don't make enough money. But I just need to understand more about this. We'll see.

Kara Swisher 48:15 Yeah.Yeah, we'll see. I mean, and in concept it's a great idea. Um, and you know, uh, again, what's really the point is rich people need to pay more taxes. Like I, I, I don't know why that never gets-

Scott Galloway 48:24 And corporations.

Kara Swisher 48:25 Corporations. That's really what has to happen.

Scott Galloway 48:26 We're paying the lowest, lowest amount of GDP as represented by the taxes since 1939. And just, just a quick note on the last thing. People... It's worth noting that Americans in this income range who make less than $150,000, they pay more in payroll taxes than in income taxes.

Kara Swisher 48:41 Yeah, so hand waving for right now. Anyway, uh, you got a question of your own, go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Okay, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction.

Scott Galloway 48:55 Uh, look, I'm, I'm gonna go off script here and, um, I'm going to... I don't have a prediction, but I'm especially slow today because I was up till 4:00 AM, uh, binge watching all four, um, episodes of what I think is, uh, so far the, the media property, other than White Lotus, of course, the media property of 2025, or the media achievement. Have you seen Adolescence, Kara?

Kara Swisher 49:22 Uh, no, I haven't. No, I haven't seen it at all. I, I've heard about it. I've heard it's amazing and, and depressing and upsetting, but everyone... I've heard several people talk about it.

Scott Galloway 49:30 It is really powerful. So I'm not gonna give anything away here. It's a British crime drama miniseries from Jack Thorne and Stephen Graham and directed by Philip Barantini. It's about a 13-year-old school boy, uh, who's arrested for the murder of a female

Scott Galloway 49:46 classmate and the in- interesting thing from a creative standpoint is each, each scene is shot in one take, and it is so powerful. It, it brings up social media. It's, you know, obviously, uh, uh, uh, violence, crime, father-son relationships, families, the impact of social media, um, the anxiety and depression that young people are dealing with. It is, it is... I- it's like if you wanted to explain to someone the stress that young people or adolescents are under and facing and what it means and how it ripples out in so many negative ways, it would be, it would be m- really hard to do it more efficiently than watching this, this four-part series. This is-

Kara Swisher 50:31 Can I ask a question? Is it, is it... 'Cause I tend to avoid these things now, even though I've heard a lot about this show and also Euphoria or any of these, there was a documentary about teens. Um, there's, there's all kinds of these things. I kind of avoid them because they're so upsetting to me. How do you deal with that? Because you're writing a book on it, obviously, which comes out when?

Scott Galloway 50:50 I'm moving it up.

Kara Swisher 50:51 Oh, good.

Scott Galloway 50:51 I'm turning in my manuscript early. I'm hoping that it'll come out in November. It was supposed to be-

Kara Swisher 50:55 Great.

Scott Galloway 50:56 ... spring next year, but I feel like the, the moment is gonna pass if I don't get it out soon.

Kara Swisher 50:59 No, you should, you've been reading all of them.

Scott Galloway 51:00 Josh Hawley is writing a book on masculinity. I mean-

Kara Swisher 51:02 What? Oh, no.

Scott Galloway 51:02 I got to get it out.

Kara Swisher 51:04 You need to, you need to dare him to a fight. But t- how, how is it watching these things? Because I think... I, I have noticed I have tended towards happy things when I'm watching things like... And Severance because it's so good, by the way, season ender this Friday. Um, I just... They either have to be really astonishing like Severance or very happy like Running Point, right? I can't... Talk a little bit, uh, this is you're writing a book on it. These topics are dire. How do you manage to feel hopeful watching any of this? And that's one of the reasons I avoided Adolescence.

Scott Galloway 51:34 Well, it's easy, Kara. I've leaned into my anger and my depression. (laughs) I mean, I'm not the person to talk to about maintaining a positive outlook. I struggle with this shit and what you... One of the things you referenced, which is a social norm, which is kind of interesting, is that in boom times or positive times, tragedies and dramas are more popular. And then in depressing times, romantic comedies are, are much more popular. People want to get out of the mood they're in.

Kara Swisher 51:59 Or like White Lotus, something that's like-

Scott Galloway 52:01 Yeah, that's just pure... That's just, that's just, that's just pure entertainment with some s- you know, some subculture. By the way, Sam Rockwell's, uh, monologue from last week is incredible.

Kara Swisher 52:11 I heard. I heard. I haven't seen it yet.

Scott Galloway 52:13 Um, uh, but this is... I mean, it talks a lot about, um, it talks a lot about school bullying via social media centered on incel subculture and people don't realize how powerful that is. This week's post I'm writing about porn, which I think is playing an unfortunately increasingly imp- uh-

Kara Swisher 52:29 Agreed.

Scott Galloway 52:29 ... not important, large role in-

Kara Swisher 52:30 Agreed.

Scott Galloway 52:31 ... in young men's lives. But this, if you, if you wanna... If you've read about this stuff but don't understand it and wonder, want to see how it's really impacting people on a ground level in an exceptionally compelling and gripping way... So, uh, but you asked me how I deal with it. I... To be honest, Kara, I'm having trouble dealing with it. I... For the first time in my life, I was thinking about this the other day, I've always been able to disassociate from the news. Since this last election, I'm having trouble disassociating. I'm, I'm, I'm just a ph- I'm that guy who's that fucking downer at a dinner party that turns everything into, "Well, yeah, has anyone-"

Kara Swisher 53:05 You are posting happy things on, on, I've noticed in threads.

Scott Galloway 53:07 I've got to. I've got to.

Kara Swisher 53:09 You really have. A lot of them are delightful, by the way.

Scott Galloway 53:11 Oh, thanks.

Kara Swisher 53:12 Um, sorry. Yeah. Anyway, it's awesome.

Scott Galloway 53:12 But yeah, I'm not... So the answer is how do I, how do I handle this shit? The answer is not well. But this is such a powerful piece of media that it is... It's so satisfying because you feel as if you've learned and you can't... I wa- I watched... I, I turned the thing on at midnight, uh, and I was up till 4:00 in the morning. I just couldn't-

Kara Swisher 53:31 There you go.

Scott Galloway 53:32 Couldn't turn away from it.

Kara Swisher 53:33 All right. Adolescence is a recommendation and a prediction, I guess. Okay, elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe this week on Pravji Conversations, Scott spoke another happy thing with Dr. Fiona Hill, a senior fellow at Brookings, chancellor at Durham University, and former White House Russia expert who also testified during the, uh, impeachment hearings. Really smart, uh, person who worked for us and now does not. Uh, let's listen to a clip.

Narrator 53:57 The big difference between Trump and Putin is Trump is a totally one-man show. He's destroying the state. Putin operates within the state. He's a creature of the deep state. He's not dismantling the Russian state. That was already dismantled, you know, under Mikhail Gorbachev and Boris Yeltsin. For Trump, he doesn't really pay any attention to any of the people around him. He uses them as emissaries and envoys, but he doesn't do his homework. They can't actually advise him on anything, and that makes Trump very unpredictable. So I think if Putin's looking at his own crystal ball, he also can't say where this is gonna go.

Kara Swisher 54:29 Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Tuesday. Scott, read us out.

Scott Galloway 54:37 Today's show was produced by Lauren Amundson Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Arnie and Todd engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Miss Silverio, and Dan Shalon. Nishak Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Adolescence on Netflix.