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Dr Rangan ChatterjeeDr Rangan Chatterjee

The Only Way To Conquer Fear, Build Your Dream Life & Stop Caring What People Think | Sifan Hassan

This episode is brought to you by: AG1: Get 10 FREE Travel Packs and Welcome Kit worth $80 visit: https://bit.ly/43FwxQl BON CHARGE: Save 20% off with code LIVEMORE https://boncharge.com/livemore WHOOP: Get WHOOP 5.0 and your first month free https://join.whoop.com/livemore It’s easy to be inspired by success, but the real lessons often lie in what it took to get there. After all, true strength isn’t just physical; it’s found in how we face change, challenge and the unknown. In this episode of my Feel Better, Live More podcast, I sit down with one of the most extraordinary athletes of our time, Sifan Hassan. Sifan is a Dutch middle- and long-distance runner, celebrated for her versatility and achievements in athletics. Born in Ethiopia and raised in the Netherlands as a refugee, she is known for competing at the highest level in a wide range of distances, including the 1500m, 5000m, 10,000m, and the marathon. She is a two-time World Champion, an Olympic medallist, and holds multiple European Championship titles. Her journey from refugee to Olympic and World Champion has captivated the world, not just for what she’s achieved, but for how she approaches life. Sifan’s story is one of courage, faith, and relentless curiosity. In this wonderful conversation, we explore: ● How growing up in Ethiopia and later seeking asylum in the Netherlands shaped Sifan’s inner strength, perspective and deep appreciation for opportunity ● The role running played in navigating life in a new country, and how it offered focus, purpose and belonging ● Why failure, fear and self-doubt have been central to her journey, and how she’s learned to embrace them as essential parts of growth and performance ● How Sifan continues to find joy in running, despite the pressures of elite sport, and why staying curious matters more to her than winning ● What her training now looks like behind the scenes - including the shifts she’s made to prioritise recovery, longevity and mental balance ● Why she sees rest, sleep and routine as forms of discipline, and how simplicity keeps her grounded ● What she’s come to understand about identity, letting go of perfection, and finding peace with who she is, beyond the medals You don’t need to be an athlete to connect with Sifan’s story; it speaks to something deeply human in all of us. In a world that often celebrates outcomes, this conversation invites us to embrace the process of becoming, adapting, and learning. Sifan’s perspective is a beautiful example of what it means to stay rooted in who we are, even when life takes us far from where we began. #feelbetterlivemore ---- Find out about Sifan: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/sifanhassan/ X https://x.com/SifanHassan Facebook https://www.facebook.com/therealsifanhassan/ #feelbetterlivemore #feelbetterlivemorepodcast ------- Order MAKE CHANGE THAT LASTS. US & Canada version https://amzn.to/3RyO3SL, UK version https://amzn.to/3Kt5rUK ----- Follow Dr Chatterjee at: Website: https://drchatterjee.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drchatterjee Twitter: https://twitter.com/drchatterjeeuk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drchatterjee/ Newsletter: https://drchatterjee.com/subscription DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

Dr. Rangan ChatterjeehostSifan Hassanguest
Oct 8, 20251h 18mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:15

    Why Sifan inspires fans: curiosity, joy, and living outside the comfort zone

    1. RC

      You're someone who has taken the running world by storm over the past few years, and you must have experienced that there is a real outpouring of love for you all over the world. Why do you think that is?

    2. SH

      I think because, um, everybody have seen people do just the same things. So for me, when, when I'm running, I kind of mix. I go up and down. Sometimes I run 1500-meter marathon, and people think... They always thought, oh, when athlete move to the marathon, it is harder to back to the track. They have never done, but I'm just very curious. I was like, "Okay, what if I did this? What if I do?" So I think maybe because I ran marathon and go back to track, and then I go run marathon and go back to the track. I, the first times, I think when the people shocked in London Marathon, 2000, um-

    3. RC

      23

    4. SH

      ... 23, when I stopped, right? And I won the race. Then I, I did, uh, after two month, I did some track, uh, race, and they was, "Oh, that's possible?" Then I did World Championship after three month, and then I get the silver, um, I think silver 1500 meter or something.

    5. RC

      Yeah.

    6. SH

      And then after six week, I did Chicago Marathon, and then I get, I ran the fastest second time ever, and maybe that- that's why people think, uh, it's like, "Is this, uh, something crazy?" [laughs]

    7. RC

      Yeah. I think there's a couple of things people really like about you. Certainly speaking from my own experience, you run with a real carefree joy, right? You smile a lot, and it's just a, a beautiful smile from the inside of you-

    8. SH

      Mm-hmm

    9. RC

      ... that I think people are not used to seeing when athletes compete. So I think that's one reason, this curiosity, this, uh, this joy. I think also this idea that you constantly move out of your comfort zone. You're not afraid to fail at something. You're not afraid to say, "Yeah, you know what? I know most athletes don't do this, but I'm gonna go from the 5K to the marathon." I think that's also something that people really admire and respect about you. Where do you think that comes from?

  2. 2:15 – 3:46

    From 2016 injury and depression to a “no regrets” mindset

    1. SH

      Uh, uh, it could be the experience. Also, I think this could be something also inside, just because I was... I, I come, uh, as a young lady to Netherlands, and that's also just, uh, kind of out of comfort zone. And then I was like, I think around, uh, age 20 something, I have to take step my life for big, big picture. I was thought, uh, 2016, uh, the years of Rio, I get injured before the race. Like, I thought I'm not even gonna go to R- Rio. And after that, I was r- really depressed. I was so angry, and I even hated running. I used to lock the door and not talk to anyone. I thought, "You know, this is not healthy." And, uh, you know, I'm also Muslim, and according to us, like, when something happen to you, you should be grateful. You should say, "Oh, I'm healthy. I have health," this, this. You always look the people down to you. You can't complain too much about life. So I thought, "Oh, it is also against my religion. That's not good." I say to myself, "Okay, I'm gonna stop running." I think I was like, I don't know, I was, like, 24 or something. I decide to go holiday by myself, like, for a month. I go Morocco. I go something, somewhere else. And after that, oh, I wanna run. But when I wanna run, I really wanna change myself. Whether what has happened, I just have fun. I just wanna see. And then I decide to also go to America. Already build a f- friendship in Netherlands. I have good friend. I have already, uh,

  3. 3:46 – 4:49

    Taking the biggest risk: leaving a “safe” successful setup for the US

    1. SH

      home, family, everything there, and I decide to, "Oh, I'm gonna go to America." So I talked to everybody, and many people say, actually, "Look, Sifan, you are already in Diamond League, top, number one or number two. Every race, even 800, 1500 meter, 5 kilometer, whatever you race, you are top three. If you go, move from this coach, what if you don't succeed?" So m- I have to decide. I have to think, oh, if this thing doesn't success, I'm gonna have failure. So I look at myself, okay, when I go, like, later, uh, when I'm 55 years, do I go back, look it, and this thing is no good to do-

    2. RC

      Mm

    3. SH

      ... or I should done this? I say... I, I look at this like, okay, what if I don't get success? But still, my brain want to try that, you know?

    4. RC

      Yeah.

    5. SH

      When I don't regret later. I still, it doesn't matter, I did everything. So I, the, the hardest moment when I'm already, you are success, you think, "Oh, this is the way. I'm always number three, number two, sometimes winning." But I just thought, okay, even if I don't win, I will take some step to go to US.

  4. 4:49 – 6:36

    The danger of playing it safe—and how other people’s fear limits us

    1. RC

      Yeah. This is so interesting because many people play it safe in life, don't they? They, they get a, let's say, a degree of success.

    2. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    3. RC

      I'm not talking about athletics and running now-

    4. SH

      Mm-hmm. [laughs]

    5. RC

      ... about anything. They get to a degree of success-

    6. SH

      Yeah

    7. RC

      ... and then they stay locked where they are.

    8. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    9. RC

      They, they don't wanna push themselves beyond that. What if they lose what they've got?

    10. SH

      Yeah, you get it, Martin.

    11. RC

      Yeah. And, and that's the thing I... You know, when I listen to you talk and hear your words, it, it very much comes across that you're someone who, as you said, you don't want regrets. You'd rather take a risk-

    12. SH

      Risk

    13. RC

      ... and fail-

    14. SH

      Exactly

    15. RC

      ... than not having-

    16. SH

      Yeah

    17. RC

      ... taken the risk at all, right?

    18. SH

      Exactly.

    19. RC

      Yeah.

    20. SH

      Yeah. You get my point. So that is, I think, even I was thinking my, some half of my brain thought, "I'm gonna lose," and, "No, never win," or, "Never be number three," or, "Don't even make to Olympic." But still my brain, "No, just try it," and you, when you get older, you say, "Oh, I did everything," you know, "to be the best runner, to improve myself." So when I make that decision, I can't tell you, I become totally different because that's the most... hardest. You are already having something. You have good, uh, f- contract with the shoe company. I could provide for myself. I would around world championships. I already in safe place, but I have to move out of this comfort and push myself. No, even no, no, no one, no one was helping me. There was many people like, "No, that's not good idea. How's possible you're gonna do that?"

    21. RC

      Yeah. People say this a lot, don't they?

    22. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    23. RC

      They unintentionally put us down and keep us where we are, right?

    24. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    25. RC

      "Oh, it's not a good idea."

    26. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    27. RC

      It's really interesting. Um, there's a lot of non-runners-

    28. SH

      Mm-hmm

    29. RC

      ... who listen to this podcast, okay?

    30. SH

      Exactly.

  5. 6:36 – 7:49

    London Marathon 2023: choosing the biggest stage for her first marathon

    1. RC

      And just to put it in context, for people who- who are not familiar with running, in 2023, you ran the London Marathon-

    2. SH

      Mm-hmm

    3. RC

      ... one of the premier-

    4. SH

      Mm-hmm

    5. RC

      ... marathon races on the planet.

    6. SH

      Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    7. RC

      That was your very first marathon.

    8. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    9. RC

      And you ended up winning it.

    10. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    11. RC

      Okay? So I don't know if that has ever been done before, someone in their first race. What was also incredible is, during that race, you were written off by the experts on many occasions. I don't know if you've seen a rerun and-

    12. SH

      [laughs]

    13. RC

      ... heard what the commentators were saying-

    14. SH

      Yeah

    15. RC

      ... because you stopped at various times, right-

    16. SH

      Mm-hmm

    17. RC

      ... to stretch.

    18. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    19. RC

      You know, and, and, you know, I've, I've watched a rerun, and some of these very, very experienced commentators-

    20. SH

      Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

    21. RC

      ... actually said, "Somebody should take her off the course."

    22. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    23. RC

      "She's going to damage herself." Yet you came from nowhere to not only catch up with the lead pack, you then went and won the race, right? So talk us through that race. Did you think about pulling out? When you were pulling up at the side and stretching your hamstring and the leaders are getting further ahead, what went through your mind?

  6. 7:49 – 12:36

    Stopping to stretch, learning to drink, and winning anyway: the London comeback story

    1. SH

      So as a pro athlete, when you wanna run marathon, you don't go to major marathon, big marathon. Like London, you don't even think it.

    2. RC

      Oh, you, you warm up in other races first.

    3. SH

      Yeah, other races you always do the safe part. You go some, just a small marathon, and you just see how good you are. Then you good. But to me, I s- immediately, when I say I'm gonna run marathon, I was like, "I'm gonna do London." They was like, "Oh, London is too, too risky," because they're going a lot of, uh, big people. Like, "It's better you run some small." I say, "No, I wanna do London." Then I ca- after, when you go home, you're like, "Is that the smart idea? No." Your brain is like, "I think that's stupid." So I had really for three month just, just, even the night, "Ah, that's no good idea. S- s- better listen, you know? Listen to the people around you." You're like, a- again, "No, I wanna do it." So when the race happen, and I just say, "See? Oh my God. Everybody telling me. I didn't listen. This is gonna happen." I would like even asking God, I just wanna go something like 25K, 28K, so I just say, oh, I have experience, you know?

    4. RC

      Hold on. So when you were stretching, and it looked to everyone that you were injured-

    5. SH

      Mm-hmm

    6. RC

      ... in your head you were saying, "I knew this would happen. Everyone told me not to race."

    7. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    8. RC

      So how did you go from that to winning?

    9. SH

      I kind of stretch. I was like, "Just let me run just 2K, 3K more." And I was like, the pain, it didn't increase.

    10. RC

      It did not increase.

    11. SH

      And also, it didn't increase. Then I start running. It is shock. Then I was like, the pain was like staying there. I thought, "Okay." I was like, actually, "Okay, I'm gonna do." When I was 38, like around 28 or something, I was already grateful. I say, "I don't care what happen. Even if I stop also, I have experience." I was like, "I have experience."

    12. RC

      So when you're at 28K and the race, for people who don't know-

    13. SH

      Mm-hmm

    14. RC

      ... is 42K-

    15. SH

      Mm-hmm

    16. RC

      ... you're just going, "Okay, this is good. I've got the experience."

    17. SH

      Yeah.

    18. RC

      "I've run 28K at a major marathon."

    19. SH

      Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

    20. RC

      "Doesn't matter what happens-

    21. SH

      No

    22. RC

      ... I'm still learning about this new discipline."

    23. SH

      Mm-hmm, yeah.

    24. RC

      Okay, then what happens?

    25. SH

      Then I was like, I was really already happy. Like, this is the experience. Next time I'm gonna be better with the running. Then I think I was... I didn't know how to drink because I have Ramadan. Whole month I didn't drink. I don't, I didn't practice. I almost get hitted by bus when I grab the drink. When I saw the athletes taking the drink, [laughs] I read, and I was like, "Okay, how much I have to drink?" I was like, "This, this-"

    26. RC

      So you're watching the other top athletes-

    27. SH

      Yeah, exactly. [laughs]

    28. RC

      ... oh, okay, they're taking a, taking two sips.

    29. SH

      Two sips. Exactly.

    30. RC

      Okay.

  7. 12:36 – 27:05

    Redefining success: ‘Is life all about gold?’ and choosing experience over certainty

    1. RC

      But Sifan, even that word risky is interesting to me.

    2. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    3. RC

      I don't know what your take is-

    4. SH

      Mm-hmm

    5. RC

      ... but it's only risky, I guess, if the goal is winning.

    6. SH

      Yeah.

    7. RC

      If, if the goal is just to get experience-

    8. SH

      Yeah

    9. RC

      ... well, it's not risky, right?

    10. SH

      Yeah.

    11. RC

      So it depends what your definition of success is.

    12. SH

      Yeah. So what you say is right. So 2019, I become the best 1500 meter, 5K and, uh, 10,000 meter runner. So your people around you or your coach always choose the same. I, I was in three events, so I have to cancel one because the 1500 meter and 5000 meter are just 13 minutes apart.

    13. RC

      [laughs]

    14. SH

      So they, they, 5,000 meter and the 10,000 meter runner, the same athlete. So if you win 10,000 meter because you're gonna compete with the same athlete, you're gonna... You, you don't know what happen, but you're gonna guarantee by n- almost 99% you're gonna win f- win, uh, 5,000 meter also. So I told my coach, he's like, "Okay, I'm so grateful you win 10,000 meter, so you gonna do 5,000 meter because the people you go in the race it, the same people, you already easy win that one. You're gonna win."

    15. RC

      [laughs]

    16. SH

      "You're gonna become like Mo Farah." I told him, "No, I wanna do 1500 meter." He's like... I, I argue with him almost two day. Suddenly, and I was- he's like, "This is risky, 1500 meter. A fresh athlete, you already run 10,000 meter. Your, your leg is tired. In 1500 meter also tactic. You could ended up becoming number five. It's tactic race." I told him, "Is life all about gold?" He's like, "No." I say to him, "Let me do the than what I love. I just wanna do experience."

    17. RC

      When you said, "Is life just about gold?" my whole body lit up.

    18. SH

      [laughs]

    19. RC

      That went straight to my heart, I promise you. Because this is something I think about all the time, you know, how are we defining success, right? Um, you know, the people around you is like, "Yeah, we want you to win, so the best chance of winning is to do 10,000 and 5,000."

    20. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    21. RC

      "If you do 1500, you may not win." But what if winning isn't the goal?

    22. SH

      Exactly.

    23. RC

      What if experience is the-

    24. SH

      Yeah

    25. RC

      ... is, is the goal?

    26. SH

      Experience is the goal. Exactly.

    27. RC

      You know, life is not just about gold.

    28. SH

      Yeah. I remember he couldn't answer that. He let me do, and luckily, I get awarded, I won. But that things really helping me because that's the first thing. Then I come to Tokyo years. I was the best shape of my life and available, so I choose the two, three event. And then, and then, like, that's like crazy thing. And then, then I, like, to... From 2019, I was thinking I'm gonna do three event. I'm, I'm training to myself, but it w- in my brain, that's crazy. What if you lose everything? So then COVID come, cancel. Imagine I have to carry that thing, training for 2021.

    29. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    30. SH

      When 2021 come, uh, 2020, '21 come, I told, "I'm gonna do three event." I te- I'm, I'm... I can't tell you how many people told me, "You're gonna go empty hand." Even the p- the people who's, like, really close to me, "No, she's not gonna this. She's not gonna win this. She's not gonna win this, but she gonna win this." Even the person I tell as a secretary, like, "I don't think so she gonna get in TV. I don't think so she gonna get this. She go..." And even the, the one call me, "No, you're gonna go empty hand. That's crazy. That's stupid. That's whatever." [laughs] So-

  8. 27:05 – 32:46

    London 2025: pollen, acceptance, and the mental game around fueling and breaks

    1. RC

      And you know, it's interesting, the, the London Marathon 2025 was, uh, probably just over 24 hours ago when it finished. And the London Marathon Instagram page and your page posted a beautiful video of you having finished, and I think one of your Dutch counterparts was still coming in, and you were so excited, and you were smiling, and you were cheering. And it was really nice to see that sort of camaraderie.

    2. SH

      Yeah. Like, I will tell you the secret I never tell anyone yet. I had, uh, some breathing problem. I just figure out, uh, because yesterday the highest pollen. I have a whole pollen allergy. So I couldn't catch up. My brain was like, "You can't"-

    3. RC

      Oh, you, you were feeling-

    4. SH

      Yes

    5. RC

      ... the pollen yesterday?

    6. SH

      Yeah, yesterday.

    7. RC

      Wow.

    8. SH

      So I, I didn't know that. I just hear it was high pollen, but I couldn't breathe. So the secret I want to tell you, I was already number three. I was... I know I don't catch, but in my brain, "Oh, you're not gonna catch." I said, "At least you're gonna enjoy what is gonna happen to the man." Like immediately I finish, I was like, "Oh, I have to watch the man." So where-

    9. RC

      So watch the ending of the men's race

    10. SH

      ... exactly. Where I'm racing, like couple of fi- five or six kilometer left, I know I couldn't catch them, the, the, the number one-

    11. RC

      The leaders

    12. SH

      ... the leaders. So I was telling my brother. I was like, "Okay, at least you're gonna enjoy who gonna win at the man." You know, the man, they have this year the strongest field ever. I was even, uh, curious about how Abdi Nageeye gonna race. I was... I know his training. He's really in good shape. I was, I was curious about Eliud. I was curious about Kiplimo. So I was like, I was even telling a day before, "Ah, I wish I don't race. I just sit down and watch my race."

    13. RC

      Yeah. It, it's fascinating hearing that. I mean, I've got so many questions about that race.

    14. SH

      [laughs]

    15. RC

      But one of the things you said before about your first marathon in 2023 when you didn't, because it was Ramadan beforehand, you hadn't trained to know-

    16. SH

      Mm-hmm

    17. RC

      ... how much fluid should I take?

    18. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    19. RC

      At which distance should I take it?

    20. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    21. RC

      Things that most marathon runners are practicing-

    22. SH

      Mm-hmm, mm-hmm

    23. RC

      ... and they're getting dialed in completely.

    24. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    25. RC

      And then you, you weren't taking a drink, right?

    26. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    27. RC

      And then yesterday in the men's race, of course, at that, I think that 35-kilometer, uh, drink station, that's when the whole race changed.

    28. SH

      Yes, yes.

    29. RC

      When the winner didn't take a drink.

    30. SH

      Yeah.

  9. 32:46 – 36:23

    Racing psychology at the top: being ‘the hunted’ and using others’ focus against them

    1. RC

      I've had a big increase in energy. To get 20% off all of their products, go to boncharge.com/livemore. Can you explain to me, because I'm not an elite athlete like you, the importance of that psychology, right? So at a drink station, let's say you're all running together in a group.

    2. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    3. RC

      Right? And let's say someone does make a break.

    4. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    5. RC

      And they get ahead.

    6. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    7. RC

      What is that like for an athlete? Like, if, if suddenly someone you were running with suddenly you find is quite far ahead of you-

    8. SH

      Mm-hmm

    9. RC

      ... in just a few moments.

    10. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    11. RC

      What does it do to you psychologically? Because the commentators kept mentioning you because you won London.

    12. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    13. RC

      You, you-

    14. SH

      Yeah

    15. RC

      ... are the Olympic gold medallist from last year's marathon.

    16. SH

      Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

    17. RC

      And when they started to break away, your name kept coming up. The commentators kept saying-

    18. SH

      Yeah

    19. RC

      ... they're worried about Sifan's kick, so they are gonna keep checking to make sure they've got clear of Sifan.

    20. SH

      Yeah, exactly.

    21. RC

      They don't wanna risk-

    22. SH

      Yeah

    23. RC

      ... being with her at the end.

    24. SH

      Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

    25. RC

      Now, again, that's the commentators.

    26. SH

      Yeah.

    27. RC

      I don't know if that's true from the athletes.

    28. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    29. RC

      But obviously because of your amazing kick in 2023 and at the Olympics last year-

    30. SH

      Mm-hmm

  10. 36:23 – 39:22

    Paris Olympic marathon: brutal schedule, minimal sleep, and a chaotic sprint finish

    1. RC

      This is interesting. So in the 2024 Olympic marathon-

    2. SH

      Mm-hmm

    3. RC

      ... and again, just for the non-runners, you did something remarkable in that Olympics.

    4. SH

      Yeah, yeah.

    5. RC

      You competed in the 5K-

    6. SH

      Mm-hmm

    7. RC

      ... the 10K-

    8. SH

      Mm-hmm

    9. RC

      ... and then the marathon, right?

    10. SH

      Yeah.

    11. RC

      And I remember, 'cause I, I remember this so well. I had just gone on a family holiday with my wife and children-

    12. SH

      Nice

    13. RC

      ... to Kenya for four weeks, and, um, we had just come back.And we were watching the Olympics on television

    14. SH

      Mm-hmm

    15. RC

      ... and we, me, my son, and my daughter watched your marathon race, and-

    16. SH

      Wow

    17. RC

      ... and we were talking about, we just, round the TV thinking, "She's, she must be knackered today. She must be exhausted-

    18. SH

      Yeah

    19. RC

      ... 'cause she's just done the 5K-

    20. SH

      Yeah

    21. RC

      ... and the 10K.

    22. SH

      Yeah.

    23. RC

      Who's gonna do a marathon-

    24. SH

      Yeah

    25. RC

      ... after already being tired?

    26. SH

      [laughs]

    27. RC

      And what was the time span between the 5K, the 10K, and the marathon?

    28. SH

      So the, the time span was, like, uh, the 5K was two day, and then I did 10K. Then between the, then I, the 5K is two times. I race two times. The heat-

    29. RC

      Oh, the heat?

    30. SH

      One day-

  11. 39:22 – 50:52

    Fear, failure, and judgment: the only way to ‘win over fear’ is to try anyway

    1. SH

      Yeah, yeah. To me, I think many people, especially w- w- well, number one, how we destroy ourself to having excuse. Like, for London Marathon, for yesterday, if I make excuse, they're like, "Oh, she's great because she have this problem." But I'm, I'm also destroying myself. The good thing is actually because we scared, you know why we don't do many things, why we don't try? Because we scared to f- fail. If we fail, and then people gonna judge us. For example, if, if everybody's like, "Oh, she's great," I wanna be always they call me great, because when they say it's great, I'm already in comfort zone because everybody think I'm great. But if I try to out of that great comfort zone, I will be maybe challenge fail. People gonna talk about me, I'm no good. So we scared of actually judging, people judge us. I think the great thing is just try it and don't care what they say. You tried, you know? Don't think also to be, like, greatest. Just be, do your best. There is nobody great in everything. There is also nobody s- have bad in anything. Everybody have something. Just, just try, you know, to. So what I see is people just scared of trying, you know, because people, somebody gonna-

    2. RC

      Yeah

    3. SH

      ... judge them.

    4. RC

      Th- this is, I mean, such an important bit of wisdom you just shared there for people. Um, it's really interesting that you race marathons, but that's really a metaphor for life, isn't it?

    5. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    6. RC

      Life is a marathon.

    7. SH

      Yeah, exactly.

    8. RC

      In life we have to endure.

    9. SH

      Yeah, yeah.

    10. RC

      Things are gonna happen.

    11. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    12. RC

      It's gonna feel tough at times.

    13. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    14. RC

      And somehow we have to find a way to get through.

    15. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    16. RC

      And actually, I was watching a video of yours this morning, Sifan, and it was, it was really inspiring because you were saying, and to be clear for everyone, you are, you know, one of the world's best athletes.

    17. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    18. RC

      You've got six Olympic medals-

    19. SH

      Yes

    20. RC

      ... I believe.

    21. SH

      Yeah.

    22. RC

      Uh, you're the current Olympic marathon gold medallist.

    23. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    24. RC

      Yet you still say that you have both parts of your mind.

    25. SH

      Yeah.

    26. RC

      Sometimes you're really scared before you do something. You have fear, you have nerves.

    27. SH

      Yes.

    28. RC

      You're scared that you're not good enough-

    29. SH

      Mm-hmm

    30. RC

      ... that you are not enough, yet you do it anyway.

  12. 50:52 – 59:57

    Strength, identity, and influence: empowering women, faith, and not chasing attention

    1. RC

      I know it's very important to you to inspire women, isn't it? Um, y- in fact, uh, in, I, I, I read a quote from you which was, "Females will always have challenges, but the challenge is like practicing, it helps you get stronger to become a warrior."

    2. SH

      Mm-hmm. You know why is this important? I wanna actually inspire every- everybody. To me, it is, uh, because female are generation. If the female are strong, if a strong mother, if you, your, your wife or your mother, somebody stronger, the child she produce, the child she feed is gonna be stronger. That is a matter of, a matter of, like, when female is strong, the man is also strong. It's not I was focused only the female is strong as man. No, we're different. I'm different. Even every man is different.

    3. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    4. SH

      So I don't have to be strong as man. I'm strong in a different way. He's strong in a different way. He's born different. They are born differently. But I'm equal as human being. I believe that. I believe in equality, but I don't believe really that, uh, I'm strong as they. No, I'm not strong. But to me, I, I wanna motivate woman because I wanna motivate all human being because female are really generation.

    5. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    6. SH

      If the mother is weak, the child will be weak, whether a, a boy or a girl. That one.

    7. RC

      Yeah.

    8. SH

      Like, if the mother is exercise, the child will exercise. If the mother is good in her head, the child will be good in his head.

    9. RC

      Yeah. I love that message. I think my wife would love it even more, that message.

    10. SH

      Yeah, exactly. [laughs]

    11. RC

      I think she would very much be agreeing-

    12. SH

      Yes, yes

    13. RC

      ... going, "Yes, you're absolutely right."

    14. SH

      [laughs]

    15. RC

      Um, yeah, it's, it's interesting. I d- I'm, again, I, I can't speak for Ethiopia or for the Netherlands, but one thing that we see in the UK, and I think in many other Western countries, certainly the US I know is the same, I don't know in the Netherlands, that once girls, uh, get to their teenage years, their physical activity starts to decline.

    16. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    17. RC

      Okay? So we know that we have a generation of young, uh, girls, teenagers, women who are not moving their bodies-

    18. SH

      Mm-hmm, mm-hmm

    19. RC

      ... as much as would be good from a health perspective.

    20. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    21. RC

      Okay? Now, there's many reasons for that. One thing that I know some women feel, and men for that reason, but let's just keep this on women for a minute-

    22. SH

      Mm-hmm

    23. RC

      ... is that they often feel self-conscious about their bodies.

    24. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    25. RC

      Okay? They don't like the way that they look.

    26. SH

      Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

    27. RC

      And therefore, that sort of shame or embarrassment-

    28. SH

      Mm-hmm

    29. RC

      ... stops them from, let's say, going for a run-

    30. SH

      Mm-hmm

  13. 59:57 – 1:10:52

    Life wisdom from travel, language, and coaching: building a support system that expands belief

    1. RC

      mature life wisdom-

    2. SH

      [laughs]

    3. RC

      ... right, that often we don't associate with people until they get quite a bit older, and I'm interested to know, do you think that comes largely from your upbringing, the fact that you've had to move countries and get used to different cultures and different ways of living, or do you think it's come through your athletic journey and running-

    4. SH

      Mm

    5. RC

      ... or is it everything?

    6. SH

      No, I think, to me, it's like, believe me, you will be intelligent if you travel around. I wasn't born that way. I, I cannot tell you genetically I'm this. No, it come as, I don't also tell you f- from athlete background because I know, I know many athlete. Yesterday somebody asking me, uh, uh, "Do you try everything to be good? Where, where it come from?" Because I didn't see many Ethiopian do that in running. I say, "Because I travel around." See, just as a young, move to this country, move to that. It just open up your mind. Where you get actually free school. Like, we have to go to school as child. Uh, this is also great school, actually. It just, I think, just great school. Great university. You can call great university.

    7. RC

      YeahI think travel's amazing if you-

    8. SH

      It's amazing

    9. RC

      ... because it, it, it shakes you out of your belief system.

    10. SH

      Yeah.

    11. RC

      You think the world is a certain way-

    12. SH

      Mm-hmm

    13. RC

      ... and you travel. You're like, "Oh, oh, there's another way to operate in the world."

    14. SH

      Oh, to live.

    15. RC

      "There's another belief system."

    16. SH

      Yes, exactly.

    17. RC

      There's, there's other ways that people live in harmony-

    18. SH

      Yeah

    19. RC

      ... with completely different beliefs to me.

    20. SH

      Yeah, yeah.

    21. RC

      And I, I, I really do believe that, of course, not everyone can travel, but more travel I think would really make the world a lot happier and there'd be less discrimination.

    22. SH

      Yeah, exactly. Because you see, I, like, and now when I talk to people and I know when the p- when I talk to an Ethiopia people, Netherland or America, I have totally different opinion than, than the person because I see differently because I live in Netherland, I live in Ethiopia. This time, you know, I went to Kenya-

    23. RC

      Mm-hmm

    24. SH

      ... for three month. It made me actually I want to learn in Kenya, uh, I want to learn about Kenya culture in university or something.

    25. RC

      Yeah.

    26. SH

      It look like... I feel actually part of, like, oh, they are Africa. They are like my home. Oh, they think this way. Th- this, uh, this is the way they did it. That's-

    27. RC

      It's that curiosity that, that-

    28. SH

      Yes

    29. RC

      ... sort of seems to permeate everything you do.

    30. SH

      Exactly.

  14. 1:10:52 – 1:18:03

    Practical training advice + closing message to people in dark places

    1. RC

      Yeah. Many people who listen to this show, uh, Sifan, really enjoy something called Parkrun, which is a weekly 5K run every Saturday morning that people do in community and in groups.

    2. SH

      Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

    3. RC

      Okay? You are an elite athlete, one of the world's best female runners. Um, I've got two running questions for you, okay?

    4. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    5. RC

      Um, for someone who is not a runner but wants to build up to running 5K-

    6. SH

      Mm-hmm

    7. RC

      ... what is your advice for them?

    8. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    9. RC

      And for someone who already runs a 5K regularly-

    10. SH

      Mm-hmm

    11. RC

      ... but wants to get a PB-

    12. SH

      Mm-hmm

    13. RC

      ... a personal best-

    14. SH

      Mm-hmm

    15. RC

      ... in 2025-

    16. SH

      Mm-hmm

    17. RC

      ... what advice would you have for them?

    18. SH

      So, um, the, the, the first advice what I give it, not only 5K, every runner. Many runner, they run, they don't j- do gym. They have to. Gym is one of important for your life. You ha- they have to lift. They have to do heavy lift. Even the people who's older, when they become 60, 50, 65, whatever, they have to do lift. That's very important. Don't only run, 'cause number one, you're gonna avoid the injury. Number two, your bone density gonna be stronger. Number three, what I say for the young girl, you're gonna become stronger and confident if you're gonna improve your f- your PB. You're gonna look after yourself. If you feel strong, then you're gonna run also the fastest. So they, th- then don't forget your core. Don't forget the gym, the heavy lift, everything. I do a lot of lift. They think, "Why you don't get bigger?" Because you cannot get bigger. You, you, your body adapt to what you more do. If you do, uh, the gym every day, five hour, yes, you're gonna be. If you do two times gym, one hour heavy lift, you're not gonna be. You just become stronger, and you would also become, have more growth hormone. That mean you are actually more fitter. Number two, also don't avoid speed. When you do speed, you, uh, you make your right, right and left, uh-

    19. RC

      Yeah

    20. SH

      ... so you make-

    21. RC

      Ventricles and your hearts, yeah

    22. SH

      ... yeah, exactly. You make one stronger. When you do longer, uh, long distance, I think you d- make your right, your left, uh, ventricle stronger. So it is good for your heart also to do longer, also to do sprint. And also when you do, like, that's the way. H- if you do, like, long run, I don't know, some people do 20 minute long run, some people do 45, some people will do 90 minute, and do that. The other also, don't only run.Do sometimes biking. Go to pool. That's how you're gonna run PB because our brain love to play.

    23. RC

      Yeah.

    24. SH

      Th- they don't like to do one thing. They get bored. Maybe they're gonna go b- good at it, but you're not gonna improve. But if you, they do something, number one, they're gonna enjoy, uh, they enjoy sport. The other also, they just gonna improve also. So whatever, if you run, but also add it in. If you have pool, add you pool also. Other way, I don't know, do core or gym, and then you gonna run PB.

    25. RC

      Love it. You're someone who smiles a lot, even when you're taking on a really difficult challenge.

    26. SH

      Mm-hmm.

    27. RC

      What does the word happiness mean to you?

    28. SH

      Number one, why I smiley, I learn. I learn after this sadness gonna be something great coming. [laughs] Like, what I learn, like, it's, it's not gonna stay dark. Th- the, the depressed yesterday, I was like, "Okay, I may sad I didn't win," you know? But I know the day will come when I win actually gonna have more happiness. So that I'm thinking like, okay, actually, you know, my most of goal had made it when I lost, not when I win. When I lost, I made a really great goal, like crazy goal. I don't know why.

    29. RC

      Wow.

    30. SH

      I know I'm not gonna be always happy. I go, sometimes I depressed, sometimes angry, sometimes sad.

Episode duration: 1:18:04

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