The Only Way To Conquer Fear, Build Your Dream Life & Stop Caring What People Think | Sifan Hassan

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 0:00 You're someone who has taken the running world by storm over the past few years, and you must have experienced that there is a real outpouring of love for you all over the world. Why do you think that is?

Sifan Hassan 0:16 I think because, um, everybody have seen people do just the same things. So for me, when, when I'm running, I kind of mix. I go up and down. Sometimes I run 1500-meter marathon, and people think... They always thought, oh, when athlete move to the marathon, it is harder to back to the track. They have never done, but I'm just very curious. I was like, "Okay, what if I did this? What if I do?" So I think maybe because I ran marathon and go back to track, and then I go run marathon and go back to the track. I, the first times, I think when the people shocked in London Marathon, 2000, um-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 0:52 23

Sifan Hassan 0:53 ... 23, when I stopped, right? And I won the race. Then I, I did, uh, after two month, I did some track, uh, race, and they was, "Oh, that's possible?" Then I did World Championship after three month, and then I get the silver, um, I think silver 1500 meter or something.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:11 Yeah.

Sifan Hassan 1:11 And then after six week, I did Chicago Marathon, and then I get, I ran the fastest second time ever, and maybe that- that's why people think, uh, it's like, "Is this, uh, something crazy?" [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:25 Yeah. I think there's a couple of things people really like about you. Certainly speaking from my own experience, you run with a real carefree joy, right? You smile a lot, and it's just a, a beautiful smile from the inside of you-

Sifan Hassan 1:41 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:41 ... that I think people are not used to seeing when athletes compete. So I think that's one reason, this curiosity, this, uh, this joy. I think also this idea that you constantly move out of your comfort zone. You're not afraid to fail at something. You're not afraid to say, "Yeah, you know what? I know most athletes don't do this, but I'm gonna go from the 5K to the marathon." I think that's also something that people really admire and respect about you. Where do you think that comes from?

Sifan Hassan 2:15 Uh, uh, it could be the experience. Also, I think this could be something also inside, just because I was... I, I come, uh, as a young lady to Netherlands, and that's also just, uh, kind of out of comfort zone. And then I was like, I think around, uh, age 20 something, I have to take step my life for big, big picture. I was thought, uh, 2016, uh, the years of Rio, I get injured before the race. Like, I thought I'm not even gonna go to R- Rio. And after that, I was r- really depressed. I was so angry, and I even hated running. I used to lock the door and not talk to anyone. I thought, "You know, this is not healthy." And, uh, you know, I'm also Muslim, and according to us, like, when something happen to you, you should be grateful. You should say, "Oh, I'm healthy. I have health," this, this. You always look the people down to you. You can't complain too much about life. So I thought, "Oh, it is also against my religion. That's not good." I say to myself, "Okay, I'm gonna stop running." I think I was like, I don't know, I was, like, 24 or something. I decide to go holiday by myself, like, for a month. I go Morocco. I go something, somewhere else. And after that, oh, I wanna run. But when I wanna run, I really wanna change myself. Whether what has happened, I just have fun. I just wanna see. And then I decide to also go to America. Already build a f- friendship in Netherlands. I have good friend. I have already, uh,

Sifan Hassan 3:46 home, family, everything there, and I decide to, "Oh, I'm gonna go to America." So I talked to everybody, and many people say, actually, "Look, Sifan, you are already in Diamond League, top, number one or number two. Every race, even 800, 1500 meter, 5 kilometer, whatever you race, you are top three. If you go, move from this coach, what if you don't succeed?" So m- I have to decide. I have to think, oh, if this thing doesn't success, I'm gonna have failure. So I look at myself, okay, when I go, like, later, uh, when I'm 55 years, do I go back, look it, and this thing is no good to do-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 4:24 Mm

Sifan Hassan 4:24 ... or I should done this? I say... I, I look at this like, okay, what if I don't get success? But still, my brain want to try that, you know?

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 4:32 Yeah.

Sifan Hassan 4:32 When I don't regret later. I still, it doesn't matter, I did everything. So I, the, the hardest moment when I'm already, you are success, you think, "Oh, this is the way. I'm always number three, number two, sometimes winning." But I just thought, okay, even if I don't win, I will take some step to go to US.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 4:49 Yeah. This is so interesting because many people play it safe in life, don't they? They, they get a, let's say, a degree of success.

Sifan Hassan 4:58 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 4:58 I'm not talking about athletics and running now-

Sifan Hassan 5:00 Mm-hmm. [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 5:00 ... about anything. They get to a degree of success-

Sifan Hassan 5:03 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 5:03 ... and then they stay locked where they are.

Sifan Hassan 5:06 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 5:06 They, they don't wanna push themselves beyond that. What if they lose what they've got?

Sifan Hassan 5:10 Yeah, you get it, Martin.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 5:11 Yeah. And, and that's the thing I... You know, when I listen to you talk and hear your words, it, it very much comes across that you're someone who, as you said, you don't want regrets. You'd rather take a risk-

Sifan Hassan 5:26 Risk

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 5:27 ... and fail-

Sifan Hassan 5:29 Exactly

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 5:29 ... than not having-

Sifan Hassan 5:30 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 5:30 ... taken the risk at all, right?

Sifan Hassan 5:31 Exactly.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 5:32 Yeah.

Sifan Hassan 5:32 Yeah. You get my point. So that is, I think, even I was thinking my, some half of my brain thought, "I'm gonna lose," and, "No, never win," or, "Never be number three," or, "Don't even make to Olympic." But still my brain, "No, just try it," and you, when you get older, you say, "Oh, I did everything," you know, "to be the best runner, to improve myself." So when I make that decision, I can't tell you, I become totally different because that's the most... hardest. You are already having something. You have good, uh, f- contract with the shoe company. I could provide for myself. I would around world championships. I already in safe place, but I have to move out of this comfort and push myself. No, even no, no, no one, no one was helping me. There was many people like, "No, that's not good idea. How's possible you're gonna do that?"

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 6:22 Yeah. People say this a lot, don't they?

Sifan Hassan 6:24 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 6:24 They unintentionally put us down and keep us where we are, right?

Sifan Hassan 6:28 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 6:28 "Oh, it's not a good idea."

Sifan Hassan 6:29 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 6:30 It's really interesting. Um, there's a lot of non-runners-

Sifan Hassan 6:34 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 6:34 ... who listen to this podcast, okay?

Sifan Hassan 6:36 Exactly.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 6:36 And just to put it in context, for people who- who are not familiar with running, in 2023, you ran the London Marathon-

Sifan Hassan 6:47 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 6:47 ... one of the premier-

Sifan Hassan 6:48 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 6:48 ... marathon races on the planet.

Sifan Hassan 6:50 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 6:51 That was your very first marathon.

Sifan Hassan 6:53 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 6:54 And you ended up winning it.

Sifan Hassan 6:55 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 6:56 Okay? So I don't know if that has ever been done before, someone in their first race. What was also incredible is, during that race, you were written off by the experts on many occasions. I don't know if you've seen a rerun and-

Sifan Hassan 7:13 [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 7:13 ... heard what the commentators were saying-

Sifan Hassan 7:15 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 7:15 ... because you stopped at various times, right-

Sifan Hassan 7:18 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 7:18 ... to stretch.

Sifan Hassan 7:19 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 7:19 You know, and, and, you know, I've, I've watched a rerun, and some of these very, very experienced commentators-

Sifan Hassan 7:26 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 7:26 ... actually said, "Somebody should take her off the course."

Sifan Hassan 7:29 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 7:30 "She's going to damage herself." Yet you came from nowhere to not only catch up with the lead pack, you then went and won the race, right? So talk us through that race. Did you think about pulling out? When you were pulling up at the side and stretching your hamstring and the leaders are getting further ahead, what went through your mind?

Sifan Hassan 7:49 So as a pro athlete, when you wanna run marathon, you don't go to major marathon, big marathon. Like London, you don't even think it.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 7:57 Oh, you, you warm up in other races first.

Sifan Hassan 7:59 Yeah, other races you always do the safe part. You go some, just a small marathon, and you just see how good you are. Then you good. But to me, I s- immediately, when I say I'm gonna run marathon, I was like, "I'm gonna do London." They was like, "Oh, London is too, too risky," because they're going a lot of, uh, big people. Like, "It's better you run some small." I say, "No, I wanna do London." Then I ca- after, when you go home, you're like, "Is that the smart idea? No." Your brain is like, "I think that's stupid." So I had really for three month just, just, even the night, "Ah, that's no good idea. S- s- better listen, you know? Listen to the people around you." You're like, a- again, "No, I wanna do it." So when the race happen, and I just say, "See? Oh my God. Everybody telling me. I didn't listen. This is gonna happen." I would like even asking God, I just wanna go something like 25K, 28K, so I just say, oh, I have experience, you know?

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 8:56 Hold on. So when you were stretching, and it looked to everyone that you were injured-

Sifan Hassan 9:00 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 9:01 ... in your head you were saying, "I knew this would happen. Everyone told me not to race."

Sifan Hassan 9:06 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 9:07 So how did you go from that to winning?

Sifan Hassan 9:09 I kind of stretch. I was like, "Just let me run just 2K, 3K more." And I was like, the pain, it didn't increase.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 9:16 It did not increase.

Sifan Hassan 9:17 And also, it didn't increase. Then I start running. It is shock. Then I was like, the pain was like staying there. I thought, "Okay." I was like, actually, "Okay, I'm gonna do." When I was 38, like around 28 or something, I was already grateful. I say, "I don't care what happen. Even if I stop also, I have experience." I was like, "I have experience."

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 9:36 So when you're at 28K and the race, for people who don't know-

Sifan Hassan 9:38 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 9:40 ... is 42K-

Sifan Hassan 9:40 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 9:40 ... you're just going, "Okay, this is good. I've got the experience."

Sifan Hassan 9:42 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 9:42 "I've run 28K at a major marathon."

Sifan Hassan 9:45 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 9:45 "Doesn't matter what happens-

Sifan Hassan 9:46 No

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 9:47 ... I'm still learning about this new discipline."

Sifan Hassan 9:49 Mm-hmm, yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 9:50 Okay, then what happens?

Sifan Hassan 9:51 Then I was like, I was really already happy. Like, this is the experience. Next time I'm gonna be better with the running. Then I think I was... I didn't know how to drink because I have Ramadan. Whole month I didn't drink. I don't, I didn't practice. I almost get hitted by bus when I grab the drink. When I saw the athletes taking the drink, [laughs] I read, and I was like, "Okay, how much I have to drink?" I was like, "This, this-"

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 10:15 So you're watching the other top athletes-

Sifan Hassan 10:16 Yeah, exactly. [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 10:17 ... oh, okay, they're taking a, taking two sips.

Sifan Hassan 10:19 Two sips. Exactly.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 10:20 Okay.

Sifan Hassan 10:20 And I was, and at 35, I, I, I don't know, for some reason I caught the group. I was already celebrating. People say, "Oh, she gonna win." I didn't care. I was celebrate. I was like, "I'm so happy." I was with the, this elite athlete who's the greatest marathon, uh, runner ever. I was so grateful. I think one thing in our, uh, life also, being grateful is actually what make you lead to success. I was so grateful, and I was cheering. And my energy actually increased by just, you know somebody when you win, you already have for couple hour high energy. I was already celebrating. You know, I was celebrating.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 10:55 So that was at 38K.

Sifan Hassan 10:57 I had run. [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 10:57 So you're feeling grateful. The gratitude is giving you-

Sifan Hassan 10:59 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 11:00 ... more energy.

Sifan Hassan 11:00 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 11:01 You're with some of the top runners of all time.

Sifan Hassan 11:04 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 11:04 So there's 4K left. What goes on between 38 and 42 that means you end up getting the gold?

Sifan Hassan 11:11 So I was running with them. I was just happy with, uh, number four, number three. I didn't say, I didn't feel. I was like, in the end I was like, I know I have kick, but the kick become really, I was so powerful. I was sprint like crazy. I was like, couldn't believe it. Like, how is... I never imagine I will go to London Marathon as my first marathon and I'm gonna win. I was like, I was like, "I won London Marathon," the, the marathon I watch on the TV. I was like, really, I couldn't believe. I was a sprint. I was like, "I win. I win in London Marathon." [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 11:44 But you know, it's funny, when you were sprinting, and I think this goes back to what people love about you, there was a playfulness with your sprint.

Sifan Hassan 11:52 Mm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 11:53 Okay? It w- certainly to me, and I'm not a running coach, it wasn't an intense focus, right? "I've practiced this. Now I've got to run. I've got 100 meters to go." It was almost this disbelief, this kind of happiness-I don't know. There was a, there was a real freedom I felt watching you, and I don't know, it keeps coming back to the same point, which is how many of us listen to the voices around us that maybe our parents, maybe our work colleagues, maybe our boss, maybe our friends, they're not trying to keep us down, they're trying to help us.

Sifan Hassan 12:32 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 12:32 You know, people were trying to help you say-

Sifan Hassan 12:33 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 12:33 ... "Hey, don't go to the London Marathon."

Sifan Hassan 12:35 Don't... Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 12:35 "It's risky."

Sifan Hassan 12:36 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 12:36 But Sifan, even that word risky is interesting to me.

Sifan Hassan 12:39 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 12:39 I don't know what your take is-

Sifan Hassan 12:40 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 12:40 ... but it's only risky, I guess, if the goal is winning.

Sifan Hassan 12:47 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 12:48 If, if the goal is just to get experience-

Sifan Hassan 12:50 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 12:50 ... well, it's not risky, right?

Sifan Hassan 12:51 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 12:52 So it depends what your definition of success is.

Sifan Hassan 12:55 Yeah. So what you say is right. So 2019, I become the best 1500 meter, 5K and, uh, 10,000 meter runner. So your people around you or your coach always choose the same. I, I was in three events, so I have to cancel one because the 1500 meter and 5000 meter are just 13 minutes apart.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 13:16 [laughs]

Sifan Hassan 13:16 So they, they, 5,000 meter and the 10,000 meter runner, the same athlete. So if you win 10,000 meter because you're gonna compete with the same athlete, you're gonna... You, you don't know what happen, but you're gonna guarantee by n- almost 99% you're gonna win f- win, uh, 5,000 meter also. So I told my coach, he's like, "Okay, I'm so grateful you win 10,000 meter, so you gonna do 5,000 meter because the people you go in the race it, the same people, you already easy win that one. You're gonna win."

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 13:49 [laughs]

Sifan Hassan 13:49 "You're gonna become like Mo Farah." I told him, "No, I wanna do 1500 meter." He's like... I, I argue with him almost two day. Suddenly, and I was- he's like, "This is risky, 1500 meter. A fresh athlete, you already run 10,000 meter. Your, your leg is tired. In 1500 meter also tactic. You could ended up becoming number five. It's tactic race." I told him, "Is life all about gold?" He's like, "No." I say to him, "Let me do the than what I love. I just wanna do experience."

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 14:22 When you said, "Is life just about gold?" my whole body lit up.

Sifan Hassan 14:25 [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 14:25 That went straight to my heart, I promise you. Because this is something I think about all the time, you know, how are we defining success, right? Um, you know, the people around you is like, "Yeah, we want you to win, so the best chance of winning is to do 10,000 and 5,000."

Sifan Hassan 14:42 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 14:43 "If you do 1500, you may not win." But what if winning isn't the goal?

Sifan Hassan 14:47 Exactly.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 14:48 What if experience is the-

Sifan Hassan 14:49 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 14:49 ... is, is the goal?

Sifan Hassan 14:50 Experience is the goal. Exactly.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 14:51 You know, life is not just about gold.

Sifan Hassan 14:54 Yeah. I remember he couldn't answer that. He let me do, and luckily, I get awarded, I won. But that things really helping me because that's the first thing. Then I come to Tokyo years. I was the best shape of my life and available, so I choose the two, three event. And then, and then, like, that's like crazy thing. And then, then I, like, to... From 2019, I was thinking I'm gonna do three event. I'm, I'm training to myself, but it w- in my brain, that's crazy. What if you lose everything? So then COVID come, cancel. Imagine I have to carry that thing, training for 2021.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 15:32 Mm-hmm.

Sifan Hassan 15:33 When 2021 come, uh, 2020, '21 come, I told, "I'm gonna do three event." I te- I'm, I'm... I can't tell you how many people told me, "You're gonna go empty hand." Even the p- the people who's, like, really close to me, "No, she's not gonna this. She's not gonna win this. She's not gonna win this, but she gonna win this." Even the person I tell as a secretary, like, "I don't think so she gonna get in TV. I don't think so she gonna get this. She go..." And even the, the one call me, "No, you're gonna go empty hand. That's crazy. That's stupid. That's whatever." [laughs] So-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 16:07 Do you feel any pressure? What I mean by that is you're a professional athlete, okay? So maybe your sponsors, right? Um, presumably, they're wanting you to be getting medals-

Sifan Hassan 16:21 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 16:21 ... and being photographed-

Sifan Hassan 16:22 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 16:22 ... with the gold medal or the silver-

Sifan Hassan 16:24 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 16:24 ... or the bronze, whatever.

Sifan Hassan 16:25 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 16:26 When everyone around you is saying no, does that make you even more determined to follow your heart? Or like, is, is that there anyway, or, or when the people are saying no around you, are you quite stubborn, where you go, "Right, you're saying no? I'm gonna show you by saying yes."

Sifan Hassan 16:44 It's what my heart want. Even if you tell me it's this or that, but it's still, if... I can be also flexible. I can say, "Oh, that's maybe not smart." But it's like always something inside of me like, "No, do, do, do." I wanna experience. I wanna see what is possible. This is actually take a power over me, what, what inside me I want. I'm very determined when I want it, when I want it, not when the people stop me, "You can't do it." Sometimes I say, "Okay, whatever. What- whatever you say, I don't care," and I just walk away. But if I believe it, I don't care w- w- how many voice shout.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 17:19 Were you always like that, even as a little girl growing up in Ethiopia?

Sifan Hassan 17:22 I, I was very curious. I was very hard to- for my mom. And luckily, I think it is good I was, uh, grow up in Ethiopia because in Ethiopia, uh, the different I see in Ethiopia and in, in Netherlands, the, uh, the children different. In Ethiopia, you have baby. The baby's two, three years, so you... the baby do her own things, you know? But in Netherlands, they do every time for, for children, right? In, in Ethiopia, imagine you already more independent. As a child, you do your own things. But it's also come because I have, have, in my life as a, as a young girl, I have a lot of experience around the world as in I have lived in Africa as a young girl, I lived in Netherlands, and I go to America, so I become more open-minded. Before, I was scared. I... My curiosity, I'd keep it to myself. I let my curiosities go outside.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 18:13 Yeah.You mention the word gratitude a lot in this conversation

Sifan Hassan 18:18 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 18:18 ... um, you mention in the 2023 London Marathon-

Sifan Hassan 18:20 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 18:20 ... your first marathon that you ended up winning-

Sifan Hassan 18:22 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 18:23 ... when you were back on the track after-

Sifan Hassan 18:25 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 18:25 ... stretching your legs-

Sifan Hassan 18:26 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 18:27 ... um, you just felt grateful that you were able to continue and still be in this incredible race.

Sifan Hassan 18:33 Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 18:33 You also said before that, though, that I think in 2016-

Sifan Hassan 18:36 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 18:38 ... you were feeling quite angry and frustrated-

Sifan Hassan 18:40 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 18:41 ... with performances.

Sifan Hassan 18:42 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 18:42 Right? And you had to remind yourself that your religion teaches you that it's important to be grateful.

Sifan Hassan 18:48 Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 18:49 So I'm interested, what happened? Because it sounds like there's been quite a profound shift in your psychology-

Sifan Hassan 18:56 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 18:56 ... with how you approach these things.

Sifan Hassan 18:57 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 18:57 In 2016, anger and frustration.

Sifan Hassan 19:01 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 19:01 2023, 2024, 2025, a lot more relaxed-

Sifan Hassan 19:06 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 19:06 ... and grateful for what-

Sifan Hassan 19:08 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 19:08 ... you get to do. Tell me about that change.

Sifan Hassan 19:09 So whe- when I want to... I, as I grow up as a, a, I t- told you, when I was child, my, my, my family is Muslim, but they really don't know that much about religion. So when I was decide to go to America, I would like, "Well, actually, why I'm Muslim? I have to learn about it," you know? I started deep reading it, and I learn a lot, and that, that when I was like, actually to me, uh, the Islam become the way of life, not, not only, not only-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 19:38 Mm-hmm

Sifan Hassan 19:38 ... just a religion, the way of life. Because I come as a younger girl, even Netherland. I don't know how to, how to handle when I'm happy. I don't know how to live life when, when I'm sad. I was coming, I was... to Netherland by myself. So I have to learn from something. So that teach me, okay, this is the way you live. This is the way you handle when you, you, you angry. This is... That's, I learn a lot from the religion of Muslim. I would, I'm, I'm also, you know, I'm, how I'm curious. I'm like in Netherland, free. You can, you can do drug, and I had a lot of also bad friends. So I could ended up doing bad things, but luckily because of the, the religion, I ended up actually in good, uh, good, uh, way.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 20:18 Yeah, so, so, so for you, it sounds like, uh, your religion gave you a framework for-

Sifan Hassan 20:24 Yes

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 20:24 ... how to live.

Sifan Hassan 20:25 H- thank you. Yes, exactly.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 20:27 Yeah.

Sifan Hassan 20:27 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 20:27 Be grateful, right?

Sifan Hassan 20:29 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 20:29 Be appreciative for what-

Sifan Hassan 20:30 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 20:30 ... you have, you know. Do this, don't do that, or whatever it might be. It's-

Sifan Hassan 20:35 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 20:35 Yeah, it's interesting. Can you... I mean, I don't know how much you're prepared to share, but you grew, you were born in Ethiopia, right?

Sifan Hassan 20:40 Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 20:41 You know, how was your early childhood in Ethiopia?

Sifan Hassan 20:44 So it was really beautiful. So you grow up. You don't have car. You just work to, for yourself, and you run to the school. It just like playing around. To me, it is just one, as a child, that is one of your dream. When you child, you don't care about gold house, gold car, gold thing. It's like, oh, you free. You play. You do barefoot.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 21:05 Yeah.

Sifan Hassan 21:05 I would grow up running barefoot to there and to here. It is, it is just a beautiful... To, as a child, I really enjoy my life, but as you grow up, kind, some of Africa country, it is very, a lot of problem that without, uh, like just my nature, and I'm very, "Why this? Why that?" In Africa, sometimes you can't say, "Why this? Why that?" You have to keep quiet.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 21:26 A- as a, as a girl or as a human being?

Sifan Hassan 21:29 As human being, it's very hard actually, like, especially w- with the politics back then. You have to like just asked to live the way it is. But it's, that's is, as a human being, as, even as a kid, I ask everything, and actually that fit me because that, the, in Netherland, they ask everything. They ask everything. They're very direct also.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 21:48 Okay, so you had a happy childhood, running around, barefoot running, asking questions until you weren't able to.

Sifan Hassan 21:54 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 21:55 Um, you went to school there, and when you left, uh, Ethiopia for the Netherlands at the age of 15, was it just you by yourself?

Sifan Hassan 22:04 I left with somebody, but it's like I don't really have, um, you know, as a young, you really need your mom, your dad who guide you to how to live life. I didn't have that one. But I, I, I s- actually, I have a lot of mentor in Netherland, but it is just the culture, the life is totally different. It's totally opposite.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 22:25 Did you choose the Netherlands, or was that just one of the options?

Sifan Hassan 22:28 No. [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 22:28 No.

Sifan Hassan 22:28 It just happened.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 22:29 Really?

Sifan Hassan 22:30 Really.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 22:30 For, for, for many of us who, who, who have grown up and live in the West, we, we possibly can't even fathom what it is like at the age of 14 or 15-

Sifan Hassan 22:40 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 22:40 ... to have to leave our family and our country-

Sifan Hassan 22:42 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 22:42 ... to go thousands of miles away and live in a different country with a different culture.

Sifan Hassan 22:47 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 22:48 Um, are you happy sharing what, why you left in the end?

Sifan Hassan 22:51 It is just all the politics. Like, I, I can go forever. I think it take a long. But it just, like, um, so back then in Ethiopia, you, like many people was... I think it's almost could be like w- from one president to other president. Some president ruled for 30 years, some pe- 45 years. So it's almost gone, gone, uh, start from my grandpa, my grandfather-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 23:17 Mm

Sifan Hassan 23:17 ... my father, and just always the politics. So I think now it's getting better, my s- but still, I think some area, they have also, three years ago, and they have a war. They have to leave. So every time just go around. One group leave. The other group leave. The other... This is just, this, this, just freaking politics in-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 23:37 Yeah

Sifan Hassan 23:37 ... in Africa.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 23:38 And so when you left, you arrive in the Netherlands. Um, what were those first few days like?

Sifan Hassan 23:45 In Ethiopia, every door is open.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 23:47 Yeah.

Sifan Hassan 23:47 Every door is open. Every people, like, there's, there's a lot of community. The children play together, and so the, uh, the, the f- they, they, the door is closed. I was like, "Why the door is closed here?"

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 23:56 Right.

Sifan Hassan 23:56 Like for me, I said, "This is the, the hardest things." Like, that's the hardest thing, and I'm also very outdoor person. So most of the time you stay inside and watching movie or whatever. I was like, "W- why? What?" That, that's the hardest thing. I really... It's, I think for two years, I really don't wanna stay in Netherland. I just was like, "No, though. It's not my things." But luckily, I become independent. I have to think about my life. I was become a student. I have to focus. I was like, "I'm fine." And I think I be- I adapted the culture also after that very fast, uh, because how they are very direct and very open-minded. That what I am very fitted in.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 24:34 Yeah. I've read that you call yourself a very proud Dutch citizen.

Sifan Hassan 24:40 Yes.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 24:41 Um, how, how do you think about nationality? You grew up in Ethiopia, your family are Ethiopian, yet you now reside, um, in the Netherlands, in Holland.

Sifan Hassan 24:52 [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 24:52 You know, you know, it's interesting to me.

Sifan Hassan 24:54 Yes.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 24:54 And the reason I ask also is-

Sifan Hassan 24:55 [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 24:55 ... because I'm, you know, not in the same way as you at all-

Sifan Hassan 25:00 I know, I know. I know

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 25:00 ... but, you know, my parents were immigrants from India to the UK in the 1960s and 1970s. So, you know, growing up, I have an Indian background at home, and then in the day I'm at school. W- so there's kind of Indian values at home, Western values at school. So I've thought a lot about, you know, who am I? Am I British? Am I Indian? You know, why does it even matter? Which is what I think these days. But how do you think about nationality?

Sifan Hassan 25:28 I think to me also, like, I'm young enough to say I'm Netherlands. I know about Ethiopia also. So I, I was also very confused also because when I go back to home, a couple, couple years ago, when they talk about Netherlands, I get impulsive, I get angry. When, uh, somebody also say about Ethiopia, I will get whatever. So suddenly I become like, okay, I'm just both. Even because [laughs] now I feel even I... So I go to America, so I even feel, oh, I know American people. I lived seven years almost.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 25:58 Mm.

Sifan Hassan 25:58 I don't know, six to eight years. So I think if people go, "Can you change?" I was like, back then to 10 years I say, 10 years ago, I was like, "I don't want that." But now if I go back, that's the amazing thing happened to me. So these good things that people know about one place and then come to that place and come to that place. So now it's just for me, it's like why matter? Why I'm have to be Ethiopia? Why it matter? Why I have to be Netherlands? Kind of both, both.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 26:24 Yeah.

Sifan Hassan 26:25 I'm very proud to be Africa. I'm very proud to be European. Like I, I just, it's just deep inside, like I think you know that.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 26:32 I, I love hearing that perspective because I think nationality is a thing that people get so attached to.

Sifan Hassan 26:39 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 26:39 And I mean, the more I think about these things, I think the more attachments we have, the more trapped we become.

Sifan Hassan 26:47 Exactly.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 26:48 Right? You know, we're all part of the human race.

Sifan Hassan 26:51 Yes.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 26:52 Right? We're all trying to get on in the world, you know, achieve our goals, lift people up around us.

Sifan Hassan 26:59 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 27:00 And I think these labels sometimes become really quite limiting for us.

Sifan Hassan 27:04 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 27:05 And you know, it's interesting, the, the London Marathon 2025 was, uh, probably just over 24 hours ago when it finished. And the London Marathon Instagram page and your page posted a beautiful video of you having finished, and I think one of your Dutch counterparts was still coming in, and you were so excited, and you were smiling, and you were cheering. And it was really nice to see that sort of camaraderie.

Sifan Hassan 27:33 Yeah. Like, I will tell you the secret I never tell anyone yet. I had, uh, some breathing problem. I just figure out, uh, because yesterday the highest pollen. I have a whole pollen allergy. So I couldn't catch up. My brain was like, "You can't"-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 27:46 Oh, you, you were feeling-

Sifan Hassan 27:47 Yes

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 27:47 ... the pollen yesterday?

Sifan Hassan 27:48 Yeah, yesterday.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 27:48 Wow.

Sifan Hassan 27:48 So I, I didn't know that. I just hear it was high pollen, but I couldn't breathe. So the secret I want to tell you, I was already number three. I was... I know I don't catch, but in my brain, "Oh, you're not gonna catch." I said, "At least you're gonna enjoy what is gonna happen to the man." Like immediately I finish, I was like, "Oh, I have to watch the man." So where-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 28:06 So watch the ending of the men's race

Sifan Hassan 28:07 ... exactly. Where I'm racing, like couple of fi- five or six kilometer left, I know I couldn't catch them, the, the, the number one-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 28:15 The leaders

Sifan Hassan 28:16 ... the leaders. So I was telling my brother. I was like, "Okay, at least you're gonna enjoy who gonna win at the man." You know, the man, they have this year the strongest field ever. I was even, uh, curious about how Abdi Nageeye gonna race. I was... I know his training. He's really in good shape. I was, I was curious about Eliud. I was curious about Kiplimo. So I was like, I was even telling a day before, "Ah, I wish I don't race. I just sit down and watch my race."

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 28:40 Yeah. It, it's fascinating hearing that. I mean, I've got so many questions about that race.

Sifan Hassan 28:44 [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 28:44 But one of the things you said before about your first marathon in 2023 when you didn't, because it was Ramadan beforehand, you hadn't trained to know-

Sifan Hassan 28:53 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 28:54 ... how much fluid should I take?

Sifan Hassan 28:56 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 28:56 At which distance should I take it?

Sifan Hassan 28:58 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 28:58 Things that most marathon runners are practicing-

Sifan Hassan 29:00 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 29:00 ... and they're getting dialed in completely.

Sifan Hassan 29:03 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 29:03 And then you, you weren't taking a drink, right?

Sifan Hassan 29:06 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 29:06 And then yesterday in the men's race, of course, at that, I think that 35-kilometer, uh, drink station, that's when the whole race changed.

Sifan Hassan 29:15 Yes, yes.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 29:16 When the winner didn't take a drink.

Sifan Hassan 29:18 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 29:18 Everyone else takes a drink, and he stretches this big gap.

Sifan Hassan 29:23 Ah, yeah. The, the, the, the lady too.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 29:24 That's what happened.

Sifan Hassan 29:25 The lady did to me that too.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 29:27 Really?

Sifan Hassan 29:27 At the 20, in the day that I take drink, they didn't take, they stretch me out. They-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 29:32 Yeah. Isn't that interesting? So, so-

Sifan Hassan 29:33 It's very interesting, yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 29:34 ... so-

Sifan Hassan 29:34 You need the fuel, actually. They, that, that how we believe as scientifically. They say you have to have drink at the 35.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 29:40 Yeah, but, but again, it's these, um, again, I'm not saying we don't need the fuel, but it's interesting that the guy who won-

Sifan Hassan 29:47 They-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 29:47 ... the men's race yesterday didn't take the fuel-

Sifan Hassan 29:49 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 29:49 ... but instead he took the opportunity-

Sifan Hassan 29:52 Opportunity to drink

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 29:52 ... to create a psychological-

Sifan Hassan 29:54 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 29:54 ... advantage.

Sifan Hassan 29:55 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 29:55 And then I think, well, maybe in 2023, one of the reasons you ran is because maybe you didn't drink.

Sifan Hassan 29:59 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 30:00 Maybe that's a good thing.

Sifan Hassan 30:00 That's okay. [laughs] That's true. But also I think the biggest, whatever your brain believe, if you are decide, you will do it. That's, that's, I think the guys just take, "Okay, I, I take this opportunity. I'm gonna destroy them." That's what I did, I think.

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Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 32:46 I've had a big increase in energy. To get 20% off all of their products, go to boncharge.com/livemore. Can you explain to me, because I'm not an elite athlete like you, the importance of that psychology, right? So at a drink station, let's say you're all running together in a group.

Sifan Hassan 33:15 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 33:16 Right? And let's say someone does make a break.

Sifan Hassan 33:21 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 33:21 And they get ahead.

Sifan Hassan 33:22 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 33:24 What is that like for an athlete? Like, if, if suddenly someone you were running with suddenly you find is quite far ahead of you-

Sifan Hassan 33:31 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 33:31 ... in just a few moments.

Sifan Hassan 33:33 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 33:34 What does it do to you psychologically? Because the commentators kept mentioning you because you won London.

Sifan Hassan 33:39 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 33:39 You, you-

Sifan Hassan 33:40 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 33:40 ... are the Olympic gold medallist from last year's marathon.

Sifan Hassan 33:43 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 33:43 And when they started to break away, your name kept coming up. The commentators kept saying-

Sifan Hassan 33:50 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 33:50 ... they're worried about Sifan's kick, so they are gonna keep checking to make sure they've got clear of Sifan.

Sifan Hassan 33:56 Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 33:56 They don't wanna risk-

Sifan Hassan 33:58 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 33:58 ... being with her at the end.

Sifan Hassan 34:00 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 34:00 Now, again, that's the commentators.

Sifan Hassan 34:02 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 34:02 I don't know if that's true from the athletes.

Sifan Hassan 34:04 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 34:04 But obviously because of your amazing kick in 2023 and at the Olympics last year-

Sifan Hassan 34:11 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 34:11 ... where there was all kinds of stuff going on at the end, right?

Sifan Hassan 34:15 Yeah. [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 34:16 How much does that psychology play into when you're actually racing?

Sifan Hassan 34:22 It, it really play bigger, big, big-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 34:23 So it's a big role

Sifan Hassan 34:24 ... big one. So because of what I did in London, I was in Paris, and I was feeling so good at, uh, at, uh, 20K.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 34:33 20K?

Sifan Hassan 34:34 Yeah, 20K. I-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 34:34 So halfway through?

Sifan Hassan 34:35 Yeah, halfway. I was feeling good, and I was like... I saw they are struggling going downhill. I say, "Can I break them here?" And I, I try to pass them, and they speak the language E- Ethiopian, and I, and I, I hear the language. I understand. They's like, "What she's doing?" The other guy say, "I think she's gonna go." And I like, "No, I'm not gonna go. I come back." [laughs] So-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 34:58 Oh, so you heard them talking about you?

Sifan Hassan 34:59 Yeah, they're talking about me. I was like, "Oh, okay, these people are just focused on me." So I saw, like, all of them look at me like they are only racing with me. So I told myself, "No, go back. I just go back. Let me just be safe."

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 35:13 Well-

Sifan Hassan 35:13 "Let me play safe card."

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 35:14 That's interesting. So do you think that's because you came from nowhere in 2020? Not from nowhere, to be clear. Obviously, you're an elite athlete, but in terms of the marathon, because you hadn't done that before and you win your first race, like, everyone's thinking-

Sifan Hassan 35:30 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 35:30 ... "Oh my, we have to watch her."

Sifan Hassan 35:32 Yeah, yeah. I have seen a lot of major athlete who, who did amazing on the track and in the marathon the other. It's total, because the energy system is totally different. So I come from nowhere. It's not only the way I win in London was unusual also. So you can't say a person is straight. She stop, walk, and miss almost drink and then go win. So that's give you, oh, this... Even somebody come to me, they was like, "Oh, they wanna beat you." They, they like, in Tokyo, I race before Paris. They say, "Oh, they wanna beat you," but, uh, the coach say, "We are, mostly we are not focused on Tokyo. We are gonna beat her in Paris." So even the London one marathon, because the way I win is, is totally different, it make like I was the greatest marathon runner to, for, uh, many athlete in the head.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 36:19 So when you heard them talking about you, so this is... I, I didn't know-

Sifan Hassan 36:22 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 36:22 ... any of this.

Sifan Hassan 36:23 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 36:23 This is interesting. So in the 2024 Olympic marathon-

Sifan Hassan 36:26 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 36:27 ... and again, just for the non-runners, you did something remarkable in that Olympics.

Sifan Hassan 36:31 Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 36:31 You competed in the 5K-

Sifan Hassan 36:32 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 36:33 ... the 10K-

Sifan Hassan 36:33 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 36:34 ... and then the marathon, right?

Sifan Hassan 36:36 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 36:36 And I remember, 'cause I, I remember this so well. I had just gone on a family holiday with my wife and children-

Sifan Hassan 36:42 Nice

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 36:42 ... to Kenya for four weeks, and, um, we had just come back.And we were watching the Olympics on television

Sifan Hassan 36:48 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 36:48 ... and we, me, my son, and my daughter watched your marathon race, and-

Sifan Hassan 36:53 Wow

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 36:53 ... and we were talking about, we just, round the TV thinking, "She's, she must be knackered today. She must be exhausted-

Sifan Hassan 36:58 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 36:58 ... 'cause she's just done the 5K-

Sifan Hassan 37:00 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 37:00 ... and the 10K.

Sifan Hassan 37:01 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 37:01 Who's gonna do a marathon-

Sifan Hassan 37:03 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 37:03 ... after already being tired?

Sifan Hassan 37:06 [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 37:06 And what was the time span between the 5K, the 10K, and the marathon?

Sifan Hassan 37:09 So the, the time span was, like, uh, the 5K was two day, and then I did 10K. Then between the, then I, the 5K is two times. I race two times. The heat-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 37:20 Oh, the heat?

Sifan Hassan 37:20 One day-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 37:21 Oh. [laughs]

Sifan Hassan 37:21 Yeah, then two day running.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 37:22 So two 5Ks.

Sifan Hassan 37:23 Yeah, so 5K, and then I race the 10,000, and then I have 30, 36. But for me-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 37:28 36 hours before the marathon

Sifan Hassan 37:30 ... yeah, less. But-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 37:30 A day and a half

Sifan Hassan 37:31 ... yeah, but for me it wasn't really 36 hour because it's less because I have doping control there. After, the, the mixed zone interview, it take, like, two hours.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 37:39 All the interviews afterwards.

Sifan Hassan 37:40 Interview, yeah, and then I have doping control. I have, like, 2:00 AM to my hotel.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 37:47 Oh, so you get to your hotel at 2:00 AM.

Sifan Hassan 37:49 Yeah, 2:00 AM.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 37:49 So you're already late. You're not gonna-

Sifan Hassan 37:50 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 37:50 ... get enough sleep.

Sifan Hassan 37:51 No way. And I was, like-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 37:53 [laughs]

Sifan Hassan 37:53 ... lying down, and then you, I also, like, you have also, when you race as a, as elite athlete, w- we have really high, uh, adrenaline. You know, you have adrenaline.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 38:02 Adrenaline, yeah. You've just been racing, right?

Sifan Hassan 38:03 Yeah, exactly. You can't sleep. So [laughs] the things I had just a night before the marathon, and I go early on 9:00 PM to go to sleep, but my body doesn't wanna sleep because I always come, come later for medal ceremony. Like, I couldn't sleep until 1:00 AM or something, and by 4:00 AM I have to wake up.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 38:24 I mean, it just makes it even more remarkable that you got Olympic gold after all of this.

Sifan Hassan 38:28 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 38:29 But, again, going back to one of the themes earlier on, I think, Sifan, this is one of the things people love about you.

Sifan Hassan 38:34 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 38:34 There's this, like, impossible doesn't seem to exist for you.

Sifan Hassan 38:39 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 38:39 It's like, "Yeah, okay. I'm gonna do it. Doesn't matter," you know?

Sifan Hassan 38:42 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 38:42 I think many of us in life, we, um, we allow excuses to get in our way.

Sifan Hassan 38:48 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 38:48 We go, "Oh, you know what? That's happened. Of course I can't do this." And for me, one of the most inspiring things about you is that it seems that you don't really allow excuses in. Like, as you said, there's more to life than winning gold, okay? A great life lesson for all of us.

Sifan Hassan 39:06 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 39:06 And it seems to be this can-do attitude. It's like, "Yeah, okay. Well, you know what? The race finished. I had interviews for two hours. I had to do my doping control tests."

Sifan Hassan 39:16 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 39:16 "I'm knackered, but hey ho, why don't I do the marathon and see what happens?"

Sifan Hassan 39:20 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 39:20 Is, is that literally how you approach it?

Sifan Hassan 39:22 Yeah, yeah. To me, I think many people, especially w- w- well, number one, how we destroy ourself to having excuse. Like, for London Marathon, for yesterday, if I make excuse, they're like, "Oh, she's great because she have this problem." But I'm, I'm also destroying myself. The good thing is actually because we scared, you know why we don't do many things, why we don't try? Because we scared to f- fail. If we fail, and then people gonna judge us. For example, if, if everybody's like, "Oh, she's great," I wanna be always they call me great, because when they say it's great, I'm already in comfort zone because everybody think I'm great. But if I try to out of that great comfort zone, I will be maybe challenge fail. People gonna talk about me, I'm no good. So we scared of actually judging, people judge us. I think the great thing is just try it and don't care what they say. You tried, you know? Don't think also to be, like, greatest. Just be, do your best. There is nobody great in everything. There is also nobody s- have bad in anything. Everybody have something. Just, just try, you know, to. So what I see is people just scared of trying, you know, because people, somebody gonna-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 40:34 Yeah

Sifan Hassan 40:34 ... judge them.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 40:35 Th- this is, I mean, such an important bit of wisdom you just shared there for people. Um, it's really interesting that you race marathons, but that's really a metaphor for life, isn't it?

Sifan Hassan 40:48 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 40:48 Life is a marathon.

Sifan Hassan 40:49 Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 40:50 In life we have to endure.

Sifan Hassan 40:51 Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 40:51 Things are gonna happen.

Sifan Hassan 40:52 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 40:53 It's gonna feel tough at times.

Sifan Hassan 40:54 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 40:54 And somehow we have to find a way to get through.

Sifan Hassan 40:57 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 40:57 And actually, I was watching a video of yours this morning, Sifan, and it was, it was really inspiring because you were saying, and to be clear for everyone, you are, you know, one of the world's best athletes.

Sifan Hassan 41:07 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 41:07 You've got six Olympic medals-

Sifan Hassan 41:09 Yes

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 41:09 ... I believe.

Sifan Hassan 41:10 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 41:10 Uh, you're the current Olympic marathon gold medallist.

Sifan Hassan 41:13 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 41:14 Yet you still say that you have both parts of your mind.

Sifan Hassan 41:17 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 41:17 Sometimes you're really scared before you do something. You have fear, you have nerves.

Sifan Hassan 41:22 Yes.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 41:22 You're scared that you're not good enough-

Sifan Hassan 41:25 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 41:25 ... that you are not enough, yet you do it anyway.

Sifan Hassan 41:28 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 41:28 And I thought, wow, if someone with six Olympic medals-

Sifan Hassan 41:32 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 41:33 ... is saying that, that should be inspiring for all of us-

Sifan Hassan 41:36 Yeah, exactly

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 41:37 ... for those of us who let fear get in the way of-

Sifan Hassan 41:39 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 41:39 ... us living our best lives.

Sifan Hassan 41:40 Yeah. I think I'm gonna... Look, for example, after I won Paris Olympic, everybody think I'm great. So I took, after Olympic, four or five month off, and I'm already gain also weight. And especially six weeks ago, I was ready to run London Marathon. So in my heart, because I did already out of comfort zone, I was scared, but I know if another athlete, if they are not sure they're gonna win, they don't come. But to me, I already used to, because '21, I won gold, gold and one silver. '22, I had bad years. I didn't win any race. So they was like, "She's done. Her life is over." Believe me, we all are scared. I'm scared. I'm terrified sometimes. But I just do it. I just win over my fear. So I'm gonna tell everybody, wherever you, look, try it. Who cares? Okay, done, done. As long as not, not dangerous, as long it doesn't kill you-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 42:34 Yeah

Sifan Hassan 42:34 ... just try it.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 42:35 So this is interesting, okay. So having won gold at the London Marathon-

Sifan Hassan 42:39 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 42:39 ... in 2023, having won gold at the Olympic Marathon-

Sifan Hassan 42:42 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 42:42 ... in Paris in 2024-

Sifan Hassan 42:45 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 42:45 ... you came third in the London Marathon-

Sifan Hassan 42:47 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 42:47 ... yesterday, okay?Some people might look at that as a failure.

Sifan Hassan 42:54 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 42:54 Right?

Sifan Hassan 42:55 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 42:55 If someone's listening right now and they think, "Yeah, well, you, you won two golds and then you came third. Well, that's not good. That's, that's not what you would be expecting of yourself."

Sifan Hassan 43:05 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 43:05 Or whatever story they have about you-

Sifan Hassan 43:07 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 43:07 ... what would you say to them?

Sifan Hassan 43:09 I say, actually, you greater because of failure. The more you try, the more you fail, the more also you succeed because you try. Imagine if you try only one, two times, you may win one to two times, but if I try 10 times, I fail five times, I win five time. Who is the winner? I'm winner. I win more than you. So it's like this, you could have a lot of failure, but you also have the chance to win. Look, I tried it six, six distance at the o- two Olympic. I have three bronzes, I have three gold. So, and I also tried so many marathon, and I'm already have-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 43:46 But it, yeah, it's not, it's not even, for me, when I hear that, it's not even just how many golds you've got, right? You could have played it safe and just stuck to your distances-

Sifan Hassan 43:56 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 43:56 ... then you never would have learnt about-

Sifan Hassan 43:58 Anything

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 43:59 ... the marathon, and that it's a different event.

Sifan Hassan 44:02 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 44:02 Different energy systems.

Sifan Hassan 44:03 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 44:03 How do you maintain that concentration-

Sifan Hassan 44:05 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 44:05 ... for 42 kilometers-

Sifan Hassan 44:06 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 44:06 ... not just 5K or 10K?

Sifan Hassan 44:08 Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 44:09 And then going beyond the gold medals, it's also about life and what do we want our experience-

Sifan Hassan 44:15 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 44:16 ... of life to be.

Sifan Hassan 44:16 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 44:17 Because how many new life experiences have you, have you experienced-

Sifan Hassan 44:22 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 44:23 ... through challenging yourself? So whether you got gold or not-

Sifan Hassan 44:26 Forget about it, yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 44:27 ... of course it's important.

Sifan Hassan 44:28 Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 44:28 Great.

Sifan Hassan 44:28 It's good if you have it.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 44:28 And I'm not diminishing it. It's great that you've got the gold medals, but even if you hadn't, you would have learnt so much about yourself-

Sifan Hassan 44:35 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 44:35 ... which you wouldn't have learnt-

Sifan Hassan 44:37 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 44:37 ... had you played it safe.

Sifan Hassan 44:38 Exactly. That's also, like, for me, it's people think it is all about running, run. No, it's not about running. It is also where after I go out of my running career, I can jump into any business or anythings. I will still figure out. I will still way how to make, to solve the problem. I will still have the solution for the problem.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 45:01 But that's where the confidence comes from-

Sifan Hassan 45:02 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 45:02 ... doesn't it, right? The confidence that you now have even beyond your running career-

Sifan Hassan 45:07 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 45:07 ... to solve problems.

Sifan Hassan 45:08 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 45:08 And problems are gonna come up in life.

Sifan Hassan 45:09 Of course.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 45:10 The confidence comes from taking risks-

Sifan Hassan 45:13 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 45:13 ... from going outside your comfort zone.

Sifan Hassan 45:16 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 45:16 I mean, to some people these things sound like cliches, but they're cliches because they're true.

Sifan Hassan 45:21 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 45:22 Right? This is literally how you've learned.

Sifan Hassan 45:24 Exactly. It is normal to have up and down.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 45:28 Yeah.

Sifan Hassan 45:28 It's like if we have perfect life, we don't even enjoy, I think. We don't even enjoy life, I think.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 45:33 Going back to the, uh, 2024 Olympic marathon, you were telling me how halfway through you were feeling good, despite having done the 5K and the 10K and not much sleep leading up to it.

Sifan Hassan 45:45 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 45:45 You're feeling good halfway through, and you were thinking about making a run-

Sifan Hassan 45:48 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 45:48 ... making a break.

Sifan Hassan 45:49 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 45:49 Right? And you heard some of your competitors-

Sifan Hassan 45:55 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 45:55 ... talking in Ethiopian.

Sifan Hassan 45:56 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 45:56 You could hear the language-

Sifan Hassan 45:57 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 45:57 ... that they were worried, or they were-

Sifan Hassan 45:59 Mm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 45:59 ... thinking about what you're gonna do.

Sifan Hassan 46:00 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 46:00 Right? So you decided, "Okay, I'm not gonna go."

Sifan Hassan 46:03 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 46:04 Why did you, hearing them focusing on you, why did that lead you to change your decision? Instead of going, why did you hang back then?

Sifan Hassan 46:14 Because when I look at them, I look, oh, they, they worry about me. And I look at the Kenyan, they also look at me. I know they are hunting me. They wasn't focused on the race. They are hunting me. I was like, "Why you have to be? Just stay there and do the best." And, and I also tell myself, before the race, I will do the best of my race, just try compete with myself. So that, and go back. I said, "Just, you know, just stay behind, race, just don't make any mistake." I come back. That really saved me.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 46:42 So it almost gave you an increased confidence.

Sifan Hassan 46:44 Exactly.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 46:45 You think, "Oh, they're talking about me. I'm the hunted one now."

Sifan Hassan 46:47 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 46:47 "So fine. I've got a bit more-"

Sifan Hassan 46:49 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 46:49 ... um, autonomy here. I can make decisions here."

Sifan Hassan 46:53 Mm-hmm, yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 46:53 "I don't need to push now."

Sifan Hassan 46:54 No.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 46:54 "Let me save it-

Sifan Hassan 46:55 Yes

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 46:56 ... in case I need it at the end."

Sifan Hassan 46:57 Yes.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 46:57 And you did need it at the end, of course.

Sifan Hassan 46:59 Yes. Yes, yes.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 46:59 It was quite a, um, how can I put it? Quite a robust finish, right?

Sifan Hassan 47:03 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 47:04 Um, do you remember that finish?

Sifan Hassan 47:05 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 47:05 Do you remember what happened when it seemed as though-

Sifan Hassan 47:07 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 47:07 ... you guys almost touched at one point?

Sifan Hassan 47:09 Yeah, exactly. I was like, um, so I, I think like around 1K I wanna go to run next to her. I didn't-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 47:16 1K left.

Sifan Hassan 47:16 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 47:16 So you'd nearly finished the race.

Sifan Hassan 47:17 And, and I was, like, try to go next to her. I, I didn't know that she's blocking me, actually. So I was like, I was like, I, uh, I see her again in front of me. I try, here I see. I thought, "Oh, she's so fast, I can't match her cadence." So I-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 47:30 You can't match her

Sifan Hassan 47:31 ... I thought, I thought, "Yeah, I can't match her cadence." I thought, I didn't know that she's trying to, like, block me. So I just stay behind her, and at the time, the time passed, the, we smash it. I, I feel like, I can't tell you, I feel like somebody give me, like, wake-up call, like some crazy alarm or something. I was like, boom. My head was like, boom. [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 47:52 Because you just exploded and-

Sifan Hassan 47:53 Yeah, it just, like, become, like... It sh- I shocked, actually.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 47:58 Were you shocked by how quick you were able to run at the end?

Sifan Hassan 48:00 No, I was shocked when we, like, she smash, when we smash each other. I would, like, really wake up, and I was, like, try to sprint as hard as I can.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 48:08 Oh, so you think that knock actually helped you?

Sifan Hassan 48:10 I think knock, yeah, helped me a lot.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 48:12 Wow.

Sifan Hassan 48:13 It really helped me.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 48:14 And a question I think a lot of us who are non-elite athletes think about is, you know, you guys, of course, at the top level are competing with each other, right?

Sifan Hassan 48:24 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 48:24 You know-

Sifan Hassan 48:25 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 48:25 ... 'cause only one person can get gold, right?

Sifan Hassan 48:27 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 48:27 Um, does that affect your relationship with these fellow athletes off the track? Is it hard to be friends with people off the track when part of your job is to try and beat them on the track?

Sifan Hassan 48:41 I, I, f- to me, it's most of the time, actually, I don't really have a, on the track. Y- like, we talk and, you know, because most of the time I think as an athlete, it's better you focus on yous- yourself-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 48:53 Right

Sifan Hassan 48:53 ... because you can only do, uh-Only, you can only control about yourself. But it's good also having competitive, you know? That make actually sport beautiful, you know?

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 49:03 When you make a record and then someone beats that record, how do you feel?

Sifan Hassan 49:09 I don't really care. It actually motivate me. Like, when the Faith break my mile record and everybody say, "Oh, sorry." I was like, "No, it's good because I know I can go harder." Because-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 49:19 What was your mile record?

Sifan Hassan 49:20 It, uh, it was 4:12 a couple years ago.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 49:23 4:12. Four minutes and 12 seconds.

Sifan Hassan 49:24 That, yes. She broke, I think, like, 4:07. And now I believe, I try, actually I was, when I try before, like, before I jump to the marathon, I was like, "Oh, I can break that record." Now, actually, Faith make it easy. It's like I know that's, that's, that's possible. Like, the, the record I break was 20-something years old record. And, uh-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 49:42 So you broke a 20-year-old record.

Sifan Hassan 49:44 Yes. And then-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 49:44 And after you break, broke it-

Sifan Hassan 49:45 So in two years or three, she broke it

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 49:47 ... but we see this, don't we? We saw this with, uh, Roger Bannister and the four-minute mile.

Sifan Hassan 49:51 Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 49:51 He breaks it after... Well, he becomes the first-

Sifan Hassan 49:53 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 49:53 ... human being to run under four minutes.

Sifan Hassan 49:55 Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 49:56 And I think-

Sifan Hassan 49:56 And-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 49:56 ... eight people break it in the next two years

Sifan Hassan 49:58 ... eight minutes later. Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 49:59 'Cause the mentality has changed.

Sifan Hassan 50:01 Mentality, yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 50:02 And I think she has just announced that she wants to try and break the four-minute mile barrier later this year, I think. Did you hear that?

Sifan Hassan 50:09 Yeah, yeah, I hear that. It is very good. Like, it's actually, I'm very starting proud of many athlete because they're always, uh, stuck one place, now they try to, they are taking challenge, you know? And that's what I want. Like, especially for Toomi or actually when they broke this, when they broke that, I really wanted to break now, so I, I know it is possible. It's like I, I'm sure when athlete now they wanna do three event and go to track and go back to marathon, it is easy because I have done. But if you never see somebody done, it is very hard because you, you are taking risk.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 50:39 Yeah.

Sifan Hassan 50:39 But they know that I have done, it is easy for them. But I'm so happy, like, athlete now starting taking challenge, you know? They don't have to. Why, why we have to wait till somebody try?

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 50:50 Yeah.

Sifan Hassan 50:50 Why we don't try ourself?

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 50:52 I know it's very important to you to inspire women, isn't it? Um, y- in fact, uh, in, I, I, I read a quote from you which was, "Females will always have challenges, but the challenge is like practicing, it helps you get stronger to become a warrior."

Sifan Hassan 51:11 Mm-hmm. You know why is this important? I wanna actually inspire every- everybody. To me, it is, uh, because female are generation. If the female are strong, if a strong mother, if you, your, your wife or your mother, somebody stronger, the child she produce, the child she feed is gonna be stronger. That is a matter of, a matter of, like, when female is strong, the man is also strong. It's not I was focused only the female is strong as man. No, we're different. I'm different. Even every man is different.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 51:44 Mm-hmm.

Sifan Hassan 51:45 So I don't have to be strong as man. I'm strong in a different way. He's strong in a different way. He's born different. They are born differently. But I'm equal as human being. I believe that. I believe in equality, but I don't believe really that, uh, I'm strong as they. No, I'm not strong. But to me, I, I wanna motivate woman because I wanna motivate all human being because female are really generation.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 52:05 Mm-hmm.

Sifan Hassan 52:06 If the mother is weak, the child will be weak, whether a, a boy or a girl. That one.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 52:11 Yeah.

Sifan Hassan 52:11 Like, if the mother is exercise, the child will exercise. If the mother is good in her head, the child will be good in his head.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 52:19 Yeah. I love that message. I think my wife would love it even more, that message.

Sifan Hassan 52:23 Yeah, exactly. [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 52:24 I think she would very much be agreeing-

Sifan Hassan 52:26 Yes, yes

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 52:26 ... going, "Yes, you're absolutely right."

Sifan Hassan 52:27 [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 52:28 Um, yeah, it's, it's interesting. I d- I'm, again, I, I can't speak for Ethiopia or for the Netherlands, but one thing that we see in the UK, and I think in many other Western countries, certainly the US I know is the same, I don't know in the Netherlands, that once girls, uh, get to their teenage years, their physical activity starts to decline.

Sifan Hassan 52:50 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 52:51 Okay? So we know that we have a generation of young, uh, girls, teenagers, women who are not moving their bodies-

Sifan Hassan 52:59 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 53:00 ... as much as would be good from a health perspective.

Sifan Hassan 53:02 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 53:02 Okay? Now, there's many reasons for that. One thing that I know some women feel, and men for that reason, but let's just keep this on women for a minute-

Sifan Hassan 53:11 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 53:12 ... is that they often feel self-conscious about their bodies.

Sifan Hassan 53:17 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 53:17 Okay? They don't like the way that they look.

Sifan Hassan 53:19 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 53:20 And therefore, that sort of shame or embarrassment-

Sifan Hassan 53:24 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 53:24 ... stops them from, let's say, going for a run-

Sifan Hassan 53:27 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 53:28 ... or going to the gym.

Sifan Hassan 53:29 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 53:30 If there is a lady or even a, a teenage girl listening to us talk right now who feels a bit embarrassed to go out there and go for a run, she's worried that people are looking at her, she doesn't like the shape of her body or whatever it might be-

Sifan Hassan 53:45 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 53:46 ... what would you say to her?

Sifan Hassan 53:47 So I say to her that, you know, the, the confidence that she doesn't have is because she's not exercise. When people no exercise, they become, the, the, the physical body become weaker. When you are weaker, it doesn't matter how beautiful you are, you can't have confidence. Just start exercise. When she become strong, her confidence bu- build. Even just being healthy, strong is actually what build confidence and look at yourself and you say, "I'm, I'm strong."

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 54:14 Mm.

Sifan Hassan 54:14 If your body's strong, you don't even, you don't see that you are, you, you're not beautiful, you're not looking good. You think you are looking good. You are better because something connection, you know? Your neural-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 54:25 Yeah

Sifan Hassan 54:25 ... your, your brain is connect, oh, you're strong. That's, that's the why female and male are so different. Like, male is because they're born that way, they think, oh-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 54:33 Yeah

Sifan Hassan 54:33 ... that's, that, I think that's what I'm gonna say. They have to exercise. I really, especially, like, just don't sit behind the computer. They have to exercise. They have to move to have their confidence back.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 54:46 In the 2024 medal ceremony, you wore your headscarf to the ceremony, and it seemed to cause quite a lot of-Um, noise on the internet. Was she making a statement? Uh, was she trying to say something or send a message to the world? Um, from your perspective, what actually happened?

Sifan Hassan 55:10 To me, [laughs] to me it's like, l- look, okay, I'm not hijabi girl, to be honest. Like a Muslim, according to religion, you have to cover whole body. But I do the hijabi to also send the me- message, because I have learned from childhood, and the Muslim people who wear hijab, they don't have confidence. They think the, the man is telling them to wear, and they think they don't have, uh... They are not smart, and they are so weak. So I just wanna the, the world to know, they have, they are, they are very smart people. They are very independent. They are very strong. I just want to say, "See? You could be Muslim and be strong, and say whatever you want to be. Be like, uh, like in the good manner. Be just, uh, with a good morality. You could be Muslim female and have great education, have, be sport and be stronger." So that's, I wanna say it's also, it's, it's, Muslim is actually... They choose to be Muslim.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 56:05 Yeah.

Sifan Hassan 56:06 I choose to be Muslim. Nobody force me.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 56:09 It's, sounds like you wanted to almost, you know, break down barriers and judgment-

Sifan Hassan 56:15 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 56:15 ... and go, "Hey, look, I'm a gold medallist."

Sifan Hassan 56:17 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 56:17 "I just kicked ass in the Olympic-

Sifan Hassan 56:20 Mm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 56:20 ... marathon and won an incredible sprint out-

Sifan Hassan 56:23 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 56:23 ... and I'm also someone who wears a headscarf-"

Sifan Hassan 56:25 Yeah, exactly

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 56:26 ... to sort of break down that judgment-

Sifan Hassan 56:28 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 56:28 ... which, of course, there's a lot of judgment and discrimination in the world.

Sifan Hassan 56:32 Yes.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 56:32 Very empowering message you were trying to put out there.

Sifan Hassan 56:34 Yes, yes. I wanna, wanna say-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 56:35 Did you get much, much pushback and much negativity, or do you not even take, ta- take any attention of that kind of stuff?

Sifan Hassan 56:42 I didn't really get any attention. Well, the, because for, to me, both of them, I don't take attention. Because if, if you also search for positive, one day they're gonna crush you. If you also search for negative, it, both of them, it's, it's not necessary. It's good that people say it's great, but I, it's good. If you wanna be greatest, don't, don't search for anything. Don't search for the bad-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 57:02 Yeah

Sifan Hassan 57:02 ... don't search for good also. You will be greater because you just feel, you just do what is right, what is good for you. Other way, it is like the gonna in your head, people will decide for your life. It is good to also talk with the people, you know, choose what is good and talk, be open-minded, also flexible, but it just, it's, it's not necessary to, to search for both attention. Do not... Like, I wanna say especially the children, don't search for anything-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 57:27 Yeah

Sifan Hassan 57:28 ... to be greater, you know?

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 57:29 I completely agree. If you let the good go to your head-

Sifan Hassan 57:31 Exactly

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 57:31 ... the negativity's gonna bring you down as well.

Sifan Hassan 57:33 Yeah. The, the one who put you up gonna put you also down-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 57:36 Exactly

Sifan Hassan 57:36 ... and then you will crash.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 57:36 Like you said before, without sad, there's no happy.

Sifan Hassan 57:39 No, there is no, yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 57:40 Right? It's the balance of life.

Sifan Hassan 57:41 Where there are success, there are no failure. Where are failure, there is no success also.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 57:44 Yeah.

Sifan Hassan 57:45 So that is how I say. And, and then, yeah, exactly. This is what I just wanna show the, in the world, like they, they, they, they deserve.

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Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 59:57 mature life wisdom-

Sifan Hassan 59:59 [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 59:59 ... right, that often we don't associate with people until they get quite a bit older, and I'm interested to know, do you think that comes largely from your upbringing, the fact that you've had to move countries and get used to different cultures and different ways of living, or do you think it's come through your athletic journey and running-

Sifan Hassan 1:00:23 Mm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:00:23 ... or is it everything?

Sifan Hassan 1:00:24 No, I think, to me, it's like, believe me, you will be intelligent if you travel around. I wasn't born that way. I, I cannot tell you genetically I'm this. No, it come as, I don't also tell you f- from athlete background because I know, I know many athlete. Yesterday somebody asking me, uh, uh, "Do you try everything to be good? Where, where it come from?" Because I didn't see many Ethiopian do that in running. I say, "Because I travel around." See, just as a young, move to this country, move to that. It just open up your mind. Where you get actually free school. Like, we have to go to school as child. Uh, this is also great school, actually. It just, I think, just great school. Great university. You can call great university.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:01:05 YeahI think travel's amazing if you-

Sifan Hassan 1:01:07 It's amazing

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:01:08 ... because it, it, it shakes you out of your belief system.

Sifan Hassan 1:01:12 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:01:13 You think the world is a certain way-

Sifan Hassan 1:01:16 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:01:16 ... and you travel. You're like, "Oh, oh, there's another way to operate in the world."

Sifan Hassan 1:01:20 Oh, to live.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:01:20 "There's another belief system."

Sifan Hassan 1:01:22 Yes, exactly.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:01:22 There's, there's other ways that people live in harmony-

Sifan Hassan 1:01:25 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:01:25 ... with completely different beliefs to me.

Sifan Hassan 1:01:26 Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:01:27 And I, I, I really do believe that, of course, not everyone can travel, but more travel I think would really make the world a lot happier and there'd be less discrimination.

Sifan Hassan 1:01:38 Yeah, exactly. Because you see, I, like, and now when I talk to people and I know when the p- when I talk to an Ethiopia people, Netherland or America, I have totally different opinion than, than the person because I see differently because I live in Netherland, I live in Ethiopia. This time, you know, I went to Kenya-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:01:55 Mm-hmm

Sifan Hassan 1:01:55 ... for three month. It made me actually I want to learn in Kenya, uh, I want to learn about Kenya culture in university or something.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:02:04 Yeah.

Sifan Hassan 1:02:04 It look like... I feel actually part of, like, oh, they are Africa. They are like my home. Oh, they think this way. Th- this, uh, this is the way they did it. That's-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:02:11 It's that curiosity that, that-

Sifan Hassan 1:02:13 Yes

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:02:13 ... sort of seems to permeate everything you do.

Sifan Hassan 1:02:15 Exactly.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:02:16 Right? That curiosity-

Sifan Hassan 1:02:18 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:02:18 ... what's possible, what can I learn here?

Sifan Hassan 1:02:21 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:02:22 Um, what's the language you grew up speaking in Ethiopia?

Sifan Hassan 1:02:24 I speak, uh, they call Oromo language.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:02:27 Yeah.

Sifan Hassan 1:02:27 So one of the, I think it may be half, half the people speak, 15% of people they speak the language. In Kenya also 'cause on the border many, many people are even, they are Kenya, they speak the Oromo language. So it's-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:02:38 Did you also grow up speaking English?

Sifan Hassan 1:02:41 No, I just learn it in Netherland.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:02:43 O- okay, that's interesting. So you... So, sorry, what, the language called Oromo?

Sifan Hassan 1:02:46 Yes.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:02:47 So, so you grew up speaking that language.

Sifan Hassan 1:02:49 Yes.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:02:49 Then you are a refugee to the Netherlands.

Sifan Hassan 1:02:52 Yes.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:02:53 And you didn't speak Dutch at the time, so you had to learn Dutch.

Sifan Hassan 1:02:58 I have to learn Dutch. I really don't speak that much English. I just know from school because you just have one lang- uh, one, one subject. So when I come to Netherland, I immediately, like, in three weeks I was... In Netherland everybody speak English. I learn quicker English than Netherland because it's like-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:03:13 You learn English in-

Sifan Hassan 1:03:14 English quicker

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:03:14 ... in Netherlands?

Sifan Hassan 1:03:14 Yeah, because Netherland t- language is very tough. So I would say what they did, actually it did help me, I was become lazy to learn the Dutch because I was already comfortable. So I'm like, "Why I have to suffer with this language when I'm speaking English?" [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:03:29 So but then you did learn Dutch.

Sifan Hassan 1:03:30 I did learn. And suddenly after a couple, I think after three years, I moved to Dutch coach. I start learning Netherland. I was also 10 months of, no, this is really bad when I stick- of speaking D- then, um, the TV. And what I like also about Dutch, they like when you speak their, their language-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:03:48 Yeah

Sifan Hassan 1:03:48 ... you try. So I was like, "Okay, I have to become better."

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:03:53 Um, just before we came in to record, I had the pleasure of meeting your coach, Tim.

Sifan Hassan 1:03:58 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:03:59 And I've been reading quite a lot about your coach recently.

Sifan Hassan 1:04:03 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:04:03 And one of the things I came across was, um, on your way to the 2023 London Marathon, again, this marathon that, um, you'd never done before.

Sifan Hassan 1:04:14 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:04:15 He basically shared in an interview that, I think you said it as well, that quite soon before the marathon you were thinking of even pulling out.

Sifan Hassan 1:04:22 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:04:23 But I think your team had said, "Look, London have just announced it. It won't be good for their marketing," so you didn't wanna let down the-

Sifan Hassan 1:04:30 Exactly. [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:04:30 ... the marketing of the event.

Sifan Hassan 1:04:31 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:04:31 So you go, "Oh, I'm gonna do it."

Sifan Hassan 1:04:32 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:04:33 Even in the coach, I think on the way to the start line you were thinking about pulling out, "Should I really be doing this?" And he, he, he mentioned that you guys made a bet that I think he proposed to you that, "If you win, I'll give up sugar until the end of the year." But you came back with a higher bet, didn't you?

Sifan Hassan 1:04:53 Yeah, exactly. I thought that we're joking because he's, uh, very addicted to sugar-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:04:57 Okay. [laughs]

Sifan Hassan 1:04:57 ... before. And I was like, as a joke, "Okay, if I win, you're not gonna eat until Paris Olympic." That was one years and a couple month, I think. He's like, "Okay, okay, deal," and we just make as a joke, and suddenly I thought, you know, I never thought I'm gonna win. I ended up winning. Tim was really struggling. He, he really give up.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:05:16 He gave up sugar for 14 months.

Sifan Hassan 1:05:17 He really... He really, really give up.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:05:19 Very few of us in life can succeed by ourselves. How important is your relationship with your coach, Tim?

Sifan Hassan 1:05:28 It is very good. Tim is actually, he's also very curious. I used to, uh... Tim is, uh, actually when I say wha- when I come up with something, he never say it's impossible. He's very curious also. He's like, he's also risk-taker. He think, "Yeah, it's possible." Everything you say, "Yeah, why not?" You know? So that make really easy for me. That is also when I come out with three event, he's actually the one of, uh, I, I announce, like, a month before I'm gonna do three event. He's the one of really supportive. That I think you need. As an athlete, your coach have to be, uh, one of the greatest support. Like-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:06:07 Mm-hmm

Sifan Hassan 1:06:07 ... uh, you're gonna be, uh, as a coach, like, you are actually coaching athlete. It's a big team. Like, it's one, two brain work as one. It feel like your coaches doesn't really, uh, support you. Whatever you decision make, you are down. It is like... So I say, when athlete being curious, they have to choose that their c- coach is the one who supported them.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:06:27 I heard an interview with your coach, Tim, uh, with a friend of mine, Floris, from the Extra Miles podcast.

Sifan Hassan 1:06:34 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:06:34 And I think Floris asked him about advice for coaches.

Sifan Hassan 1:06:38 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:06:39 And he said many things, but one of the things he said I, I really, really loved, he said, "Never, ever joke negatively with your athletes." And I really like that. I thought it is, yes, it's important for athletes, but even in a marriage, in a relationship with your children, like, never joke about something negative, and I thought that was a really insightful piece of advice.

Sifan Hassan 1:07:06 Yeah, I think it's a... Well, he's, he's very smart, by the way, because it's true because so athlete and coach are so close, as even our brain have a lot of-To myself, I have a lot of negative things in coming to-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:07:19 Mm

Sifan Hassan 1:07:19 ... when I make decision. Then that come to the athlete also make, "Yeah, maybe true. Maybe she's or he-"

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:07:25 Yeah

Sifan Hassan 1:07:25 ... "better. Maybe I can't do," you know? That, you know, this value, it is very important also to know.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:07:30 Yeah. I think it also resonated with me because I was chatting to my kids recently about this. This is before I heard that interview with Tim, and one of them made a joke, just a, a s- stupid joke, but I said, "Hey, listen, even if your sibling believes 1% of that-

Sifan Hassan 1:07:45 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:07:45 ... right, even though you meant it as a joke, that can have implications for that person later on."

Sifan Hassan 1:07:51 It's true. It's true.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:07:51 Right? Do not joke negatively.

Sifan Hassan 1:07:53 It's true.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:07:54 You know, find something else to joke about-

Sifan Hassan 1:07:56 It's true

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:07:56 ... but not about someone's weakness or what you perceive as a weakness, and it's-

Sifan Hassan 1:08:00 It's, no

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:08:01 ... and then it, just hearing that made me think, "God, he, he really must be a wonderful coach."

Sifan Hassan 1:08:04 No, it is, he's really, he's, he's great. No, it is really true also because, like, especially with the children, the parents are role model. If you joke about it, they really take serious. They say, they may say they are laughing, but in their head when they come, like, "Maybe that true," you know?

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:08:20 Yeah.

Sifan Hassan 1:08:20 When they ta- they, when the time they, the difficult time, they don't search for solution. They say, "Maybe m- maybe I'm stupid." Like, if you have a child, a girl child, if you talk about how strong female to how the success it, they will wanna become like that success. If you always tell about other history, "Oh, wow, amazing. She did amazing thing," because I know as a child, I hear, like, my mom would talk when some female did amazing thing, she always said, "Wow, this what amazing thing she done." I was like, "Oh, I wanna become, I wanna be like that person so she, people can say also." That's what as a child you would just wanna-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:08:58 Yeah

Sifan Hassan 1:08:58 ... you don't know anything, you just take it.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:09:01 Sifan, you've experienced many different challenges in your life up to this point. What would you say is the hardest thing you've ever done?

Sifan Hassan 1:09:13 Ah, the hardest things is I have, that is, it was the hard when I move from Netherlands to US. Like, when I was like, "I already know, oh, I'm safe, I've success, I've get to survive. I have enough money, but I may lose everything, and I have to go back to school, educate, and have ga- again, a job." So that is the hardest thing. What, like, you know, right now I'm in good position. If I could keep this going, keep for five, six years, I could own something. I could survive then. But I say, "Oh, I'm gonna choose to go to that," and it could be ended up things go different way.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:09:57 Mm-hmm.

Sifan Hassan 1:09:58 And I was like, "Okay, I just, I choose, okay, if thing doesn't work, I do try three, four years. I go to s- uh, do, uh, go to s- school and go back to school, have my diploma or degree, and then I go to work." That's the hardest thing. The other hardest things is when I decide, uh, Tokyo Olympic to do three event when I wasn't have any Olympic medal.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:10:23 Wow. And each of those hard things that you did or put yourself forward for-

Sifan Hassan 1:10:31 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:10:31 ... for you, has paid dividends.

Sifan Hassan 1:10:33 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:10:34 But for some people, they don't always.

Sifan Hassan 1:10:37 No.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:10:37 Sometimes they try and do something hard-

Sifan Hassan 1:10:39 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:10:39 ... and it doesn't pay off.

Sifan Hassan 1:10:41 Yeah, it doesn't pay off. I had also really hard years in 2022.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:10:44 Mm-hmm.

Sifan Hassan 1:10:45 It didn't pay off. This is, I was really struggling, but it is not, not always, but keep working. Never give up.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:10:52 Yeah. Many people who listen to this show, uh, Sifan, really enjoy something called Parkrun, which is a weekly 5K run every Saturday morning that people do in community and in groups.

Sifan Hassan 1:11:06 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:11:06 Okay? You are an elite athlete, one of the world's best female runners. Um, I've got two running questions for you, okay?

Sifan Hassan 1:11:17 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:11:18 Um, for someone who is not a runner but wants to build up to running 5K-

Sifan Hassan 1:11:24 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:11:25 ... what is your advice for them?

Sifan Hassan 1:11:27 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:11:27 And for someone who already runs a 5K regularly-

Sifan Hassan 1:11:31 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:11:31 ... but wants to get a PB-

Sifan Hassan 1:11:34 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:11:34 ... a personal best-

Sifan Hassan 1:11:35 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:11:35 ... in 2025-

Sifan Hassan 1:11:37 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:11:38 ... what advice would you have for them?

Sifan Hassan 1:11:40 So, um, the, the, the first advice what I give it, not only 5K, every runner. Many runner, they run, they don't j- do gym. They have to. Gym is one of important for your life. You ha- they have to lift. They have to do heavy lift. Even the people who's older, when they become 60, 50, 65, whatever, they have to do lift. That's very important. Don't only run, 'cause number one, you're gonna avoid the injury. Number two, your bone density gonna be stronger. Number three, what I say for the young girl, you're gonna become stronger and confident if you're gonna improve your f- your PB. You're gonna look after yourself. If you feel strong, then you're gonna run also the fastest. So they, th- then don't forget your core. Don't forget the gym, the heavy lift, everything. I do a lot of lift. They think, "Why you don't get bigger?" Because you cannot get bigger. You, you, your body adapt to what you more do. If you do, uh, the gym every day, five hour, yes, you're gonna be. If you do two times gym, one hour heavy lift, you're not gonna be. You just become stronger, and you would also become, have more growth hormone. That mean you are actually more fitter. Number two, also don't avoid speed. When you do speed, you, uh, you make your right, right and left, uh-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:12:54 Yeah

Sifan Hassan 1:12:55 ... so you make-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:12:56 Ventricles and your hearts, yeah

Sifan Hassan 1:12:57 ... yeah, exactly. You make one stronger. When you do longer, uh, long distance, I think you d- make your right, your left, uh, ventricle stronger. So it is good for your heart also to do longer, also to do sprint. And also when you do, like, that's the way. H- if you do, like, long run, I don't know, some people do 20 minute long run, some people do 45, some people will do 90 minute, and do that. The other also, don't only run.Do sometimes biking. Go to pool. That's how you're gonna run PB because our brain love to play.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:13:28 Yeah.

Sifan Hassan 1:13:28 Th- they don't like to do one thing. They get bored. Maybe they're gonna go b- good at it, but you're not gonna improve. But if you, they do something, number one, they're gonna enjoy, uh, they enjoy sport. The other also, they just gonna improve also. So whatever, if you run, but also add it in. If you have pool, add you pool also. Other way, I don't know, do core or gym, and then you gonna run PB.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:13:49 Love it. You're someone who smiles a lot, even when you're taking on a really difficult challenge.

Sifan Hassan 1:13:57 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:13:58 What does the word happiness mean to you?

Sifan Hassan 1:14:01 Number one, why I smiley, I learn. I learn after this sadness gonna be something great coming. [laughs] Like, what I learn, like, it's, it's not gonna stay dark. Th- the, the depressed yesterday, I was like, "Okay, I may sad I didn't win," you know? But I know the day will come when I win actually gonna have more happiness. So that I'm thinking like, okay, actually, you know, my most of goal had made it when I lost, not when I win. When I lost, I made a really great goal, like crazy goal. I don't know why.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:14:32 Wow.

Sifan Hassan 1:14:33 I know I'm not gonna be always happy. I go, sometimes I depressed, sometimes angry, sometimes sad.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:14:38 Yeah, the full breadth of experience, like, um, long, slow runs-

Sifan Hassan 1:14:43 Yes. [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:14:43 ... and short, fast runs, happiness, sadness-

Sifan Hassan 1:14:47 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:14:47 ... anger, calm. You know?

Sifan Hassan 1:14:48 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:14:48 It's good to experience everything, right?

Sifan Hassan 1:14:50 Exactly, yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:14:51 Yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's incredible. You know, talking to you is just so inspiring. I can see why so many people around the world-

Sifan Hassan 1:14:59 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:15:00 ... truly love you, right, and feel connected to you-

Sifan Hassan 1:15:05 Thank you

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:15:05 ... and feel that when they watch you run or speak, that they feel that they can do-

Sifan Hassan 1:15:10 The same

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:15:10 ... better things in their own life.

Sifan Hassan 1:15:12 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:15:12 Right? And I'm pretty sure after today's conversation, a lot of people will also feel inspired by your curiosity, your playfulness, your, I guess your directness as well. You know? You don't sort of hide your words.

Sifan Hassan 1:15:28 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:15:28 You tell it as you see it-

Sifan Hassan 1:15:30 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:15:30 ... which I find, and I think many people find really, really inspiring. There's a lot of people around the world who feel as though they're in a dark place. Okay? They can't see the light-

Sifan Hassan 1:15:43 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:15:43 ... at the end of the tunnel.

Sifan Hassan 1:15:43 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:15:44 You're someone who has also been in those dark places before.

Sifan Hassan 1:15:47 Exactly.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:15:49 To finish off this conversation, for that person who's watching right now, who does feel that their life is not going in the way that they want it to go and that they cannot see light at the end of the tunnel, what would your final words to them be?

Sifan Hassan 1:16:06 If you look at me, the people who even, if the person who watch, who knows Sifan, or maybe he never saw. Now he's googling, "Look at, look at it." He said, "Oh, wow, what she done is great." Believe me, uh, whatever you feel inside you, I feel the same. Even now, I think the things is not going my, the way I want. Eh, I'm angry, I'm sad, I'm happy. So even the girl you think, the woman you think is success, feeling the same as you feel. Maybe the people, the success people, they don't say. They actually the, the one who fail more because when they success also, you want a more success, more success. Th- the thing doesn't go the way they want. Maybe, maybe couple thing, but they, they try, they try, they try. Maybe three, four thing go the way they want. Maybe 20 thing doesn't go the way they want. You only see the one success thing. So think it, whatever you think about it, whatever you have in it, I have it. I experience, even now. I wanna win yesterday. I didn't win, because I already have great name. They say she's winner, she's hero, she's that. I wanna do that, but it didn't happen. You think I didn't angry? I get angry. I, I, I was like angry at myself when I go on to sleep, but that's human being. That's all. We are the same. Believe me, we are just... Nobody is special. This is, it's just matter of experience, matter of the trying. Just keep going. So believe in that. That's what I say.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:17:35 Sifan, you're an incredible human being. You're inspiring millions of people around the world. Thank you for making some time to come on my show.

Sifan Hassan 1:17:43 Thank you so much. [laughs] Thank you.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:17:46 If you enjoyed that conversation, then I think you are really going to enjoy this one. Most things that adults are doing that is counterproductive have a logic, a certain logic, a twisted logic you might say, that dates back to their early childhood, where that behavior made a certain sort of sense-