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Dr Rangan ChatterjeeDr Rangan Chatterjee

You’re NOT Just Getting Old! — These Daily Habits Are Destroying Your Body After 40 | Vonda Wright

This episode is brought to you by: VIVOBAREFOOT: Get 20% off your first order https://links.drchatterjee.com/4nWFP51 WHOOP: Get WHOOP 5.0 and your first month free https://join.whoop.com/livemore BETTER HELP: Get 10% off your first month https://betterhelp.com/livemore Bone health is something most of us don’t think about until much later in life, but the reality is that the foundation for strong, healthy bones is built decades earlier – and what we do in our 20s, 30s and 40s can make all the difference to our health and strength in later years. Today, I’m delighted to welcome Dr Vonda Wright. Vonda is an orthopaedic surgeon and internationally recognised authority on active ageing and mobility. She believes that with mobility, smart nutrition and building relationships, we can harness our own power to control 70% of our health and ageing. Vonda specialises in sports medicine and is one of only a few female orthopaedic surgeons in the United States. She currently serves as the inaugural Chief of Sports Medicine for the Northside Hospital Orthopaedic Institute and is the founding director of the Performance and Research Initiative for Masters Athletes (PRIMA). She is also the author of several books, including her latest, Unbreakable: A Woman’s Guide to Ageing With Power, combines cutting-edge science with practical tools to help us protect our bones and our future health. In this fantastic conversation, we discuss: ● Why osteoporosis isn’t just a disease of old age, but one that begins much earlier in life, often decades before the first fracture. ● The idea of the “critical decade” – why our mid-30s to mid-40s are such a pivotal window for building bone strength, especially for women approaching menopause. ● The key lifestyle factors that influence bone density, from nutrition and protein intake to resistance training and impact exercise, and why it’s never too late to start. ● How scans such as DEXA and REMS can give a clearer picture of bone quality and help us take action before problems arise. ● The cultural and societal pressures that shape women’s health behaviours, and how these can sometimes work against long-term bone resilience. ● Simple, practical strategies for protecting your bones at every stage of life, supporting independence, mobility and confidence as we age. Vonda also shares her vision of ageing with strength, independence and vitality, and why she believes we can all take proactive steps to remain “unbreakable”. As Vonda explains, we have more control over our bone health than we might realise - and that knowledge should feel both comforting and empowering. Caring for our bones is really about caring for our future selves. By taking simple, consistent steps today, we can build the strength and confidence to live the way we want for years to come. #feelbetterlivemore --- Connect with Vonda: https://www.drvondawright.com/ https://www.instagram.com/drvondawright/?hl=en https://www.youtube.com/user/vondawright https://www.facebook.com/VondaWrightMD https://twitter.com/drvondawright Vonda’s books: Unbreakable: A Woman’s Guide to Ageing with Power US https://amzn.to/4o3w7hc UK https://amzn.to/4orYIfR Fitness After 40:Your Strong Body at 40, 50, 60, and Beyond US https://amzn.to/3WN73Pm UK https://amzn.to/4orkOim #feelbetterlivemore #feelbetterlivemorepodcast ------- Order MAKE CHANGE THAT LASTS. US & Canada version https://amzn.to/3RyO3SL, UK version https://amzn.to/3Kt5rUK ----- Follow Dr Chatterjee at: Website: https://drchatterjee.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drchatterjee Twitter: https://twitter.com/drchatterjeeuk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drchatterjee/ Newsletter: https://drchatterjee.com/subscription DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjeehost
Oct 22, 20252h 5mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:24

    The hidden drivers of “aging faster”: myths, resignation, and self-neglect

    1. RC

      When you look around across society, what are some of the common things people are doing that are perhaps resulting in them neglecting their bodies-

    2. VW

      Mm

    3. RC

      ... and therefore increasing the speed at which they age?

    4. VW

      I think there are a couple factors that may be surprising, and then several that are obviously not. But I think the first reason people begin to decline, without even realizing it, is this bias or this myth we believe that aging is an inevitable decline, and that there's something abnormal about it. But I say quite frequently that aging alone is the most natural thing we do from the minute of our conception to the moment of our death, and it's how we handle the passage of time that matters. But if you believe that there's absolutely nothing you can do about the future, then you're gonna resign yourself to the first time you feel an ache or a pain, or the first time you come up against a no, as, "Well, that's just getting old, I guess I'll just accept it." And what I find people doing is giving things up one at a time until they don't recognize it. I'll give you some examples. So believing the myth that it's inevitable is, I think, a primary motivator. The second motivator I see is that sometimes people don't believe they're worth the effort. Maybe everybody else is worth the effort, particularly for women, like, the, the neglect, the self-neglect comes because we're not neglecting others, we're investing all of our energy externally and not redirecting anything internally. And so those being primary drivers I see in the stepwise allowing decline.

    5. RC

      Hmm. It's interesting, this idea about mindset or beliefs.

    6. VW

      Mm.

    7. RC

      You know, if we believe, if we get the message from the world around us that getting older means frailty-

    8. VW

      Mm-hmm

    9. RC

      ... means weakness-

    10. VW

      Mm-hmm

    11. RC

      ... means you have to give up the things that you don't wanna give up necessarily-

    12. VW

      Mm-hmm

    13. RC

      ... then of course your behaviors are going to follow-

    14. VW

      That's right

    15. RC

      ... your beliefs.

    16. VW

      Mm-hmm.

    17. RC

      And there's so many things about your new book, Unbreakable, that I really, really enjoy.

    18. VW

      Yeah.

  2. 2:24 – 5:13

    What “normal aging” is really measuring (and why sedentary data misleads us)

    1. RC

      I think it's beautifully written. And in the introduction you actually say, "I contend that although we certainly undergo some life stage changes-

    2. VW

      Mm-hmm

    3. RC

      ... what we call normal aging is actually normal aging for stressed out, undernourished people who are not intentionally building muscle, not attending to their hormonal health, and not prioritizing mobility."

    4. VW

      Exactly. And what I mean by that is if you go back to the medical literature, there was a study, and there are many studies like this. Uh, there was a study called the Health ABC in the United States funded by our National Institutes of Health, that took a cohort of 70-year-olds and just watched them age over a decade. These were people straight out of the population. Well, what do we know about people in the world and in the United States in particular, is that more than 70% of them do not invest any energy any day in mobility or health habits. So if we're watching a population of people to see how they age, and they're truly just a random sample of the population, then you are sampling sedentary people who make very little effort to age in a different way. So I, I state that so clearly is because I contend, and why we formed the research group at the University of Pittsburgh called PRIMA, the Performance and Research Initiative for Masters Athletes, is because I wanted to see what we were capable of if we took the variable of sedentary living out of the way.

    5. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    6. VW

      So we began studying active people, not professional masters age athletes, but people over 40 who were consistently active. Many of them were podium-type, uh, age group athletes-

    7. RC

      Mm

    8. VW

      ... meaning, you know, winning the 50-year-old, uh, podium. So they were invested, but not pros, and what we found was very different than we find in the population. We found over 15 years we can retain muscle mass and bone density and brain function. Um, and so when I say that we don't really truly know the state of healthy, active ageing, it's based on facts, not fiction.

    9. RC

      Yeah. So in terms of what people can do then as they get older, we're gonna get into all the detail-

    10. VW

      Yeah

    11. RC

      ... but top line-

    12. VW

      Mm-hmm

    13. RC

      ... right at the top for people-

    14. VW

      Mm-hmm

    15. RC

      ... what are some of the things that you want people to consider doing as they get older?

    16. VW

      Mm-hmm. Yep.

    17. RC

      As I say, we'll get into all the detail-

    18. VW

      Yeah

    19. RC

      ... but just top line, what are some of those things you want people to be focusing on as they get older?

  3. 5:13 – 6:23

    The top-line blueprint: mindset, resilience, and your “five-person” circle

    1. VW

      Number one, mindset mobilization. We have to quit worshiping our youth. Number two, we have to work hard at building mental resilience. Aging is not for sissies. It can get hard, so we have to build the mental resistance to stay in the process. Number three, we need to build physical resilience, and part of this book is all about that. How do we know where we are physically, and then use the science-backed ways to build physical resilience? Um, and then I firmly believe and encourage people to form groups of at least five to travel this road with you-

    2. RC

      Mm-hmm

    3. VW

      ... towards an aging process that is vibrant, because, you know, experts in, in social theory and, and relationships will say that we are the product of the five people we spend the most time with.

    4. RC

      Mm.

    5. VW

      And if those five people are naysayers of health and aging, if they are naysaying in your ear, "What are you doing out there trying to get healthier?"It's gonna hold you back. So as a broad outline-

    6. RC

      Mm

    7. VW

      ... those would be the things I identify.

  4. 6:23 – 9:30

    Why this women-focused book matters to men (and to families)

    1. RC

      Yeah. I love those. This book is primarily focused on women.

    2. VW

      Mm.

    3. RC

      I'm a man-

    4. VW

      Yes

    5. RC

      ... in my 40s.

    6. VW

      Yes.

    7. RC

      What is it you would like me to take from reading this book?

    8. VW

      You know what? This book is specifically, uh, through the vision and voice of women, but many of the principles are directly applicable, especially the mindset principles, to men. But listen, all men are from women. S- y- all men were at one point in a woman's womb, right? So you, you must have a mother figure. Many men are partnered with women. You have sisters. You are in working relationships with women. The more understanding men have of the differences between what happens as a man ages and a woman ages, there will be a greater understanding and ability to work together, and, and even probably save a lot of midlife marriages because of an understanding that women go through a completely tumultuous time that is of not their choosing.

    9. RC

      Yeah.

    10. VW

      It's just biology.

    11. RC

      Yeah, I love that. I mean, I, I, I believe that to be the case. I believe books like this can actually save many marriages.

    12. VW

      Exactly.

    13. RC

      And I think it is very relevant to men.

    14. VW

      Yes.

    15. RC

      Even though, you know, the strap line is A Woman's Guide to Ageing With Power.

    16. VW

      [laughs]

    17. RC

      I really enjoyed reading it.

    18. VW

      Mm-hmm.

    19. RC

      And of course, I'm married.

    20. VW

      Yes, you are.

    21. RC

      Okay? Um, I, I help look after my elderly mum, so some of these things that you talk about-

    22. VW

      Mm-hmm

    23. RC

      ... I have seen what happens if people don't pay attention. I have a daughter.

    24. VW

      Yes.

    25. RC

      And I've heard you talk about the importance of bone health and how we get to our peak bone density maybe at 25 or 30.

    26. VW

      Yes.

    27. RC

      And so this book has already made me think about, well, what is my daughter doing right now at 12 years of age-

    28. VW

      Mm-hmm

    29. RC

      ... that's gonna ensure she's putting force and pressure through her bones to make sure she has the maximum bone capacity that she can have. So yeah, yes, it's for women. It's also just as relevant to men.

    30. VW

      I love that you say that because, you know, particularly in reference to your daughter, is it's my intention, I have, I have two daughters and, and f- four daughters-in-law. It is my intention that they never suffer, because your... that, so that your 12-year-old and my 17-year-old and my 31-year-old will know what's going to happen, build solid bases of muscle and bone and, and brain health in their youth, know what's going to happen as estrogen walks out the door, and know where to have the resources. Because what's happened to certainly baby-booming women, certainly Generation X women, which we do not want to happen to the oldest millennial women who are 43, 44, is the hitting the wall phenomenon, not being yourself, cataclysmic changes. So for your 12-year-old and my 17-year-old, my vision and motivating factor is that they will never feel this.

  5. 9:30 – 17:46

    Why women and men age differently: the hormone timeline and the estrogen cliff

    1. RC

      Let's take a big-picture view, right? You mentioned the differences between women and men. Of course, there are many differences.

    2. VW

      Completely.

    3. RC

      But I saw you speak a couple of days ago in London.

    4. VW

      Mm.

    5. RC

      And you put up some very provocative images.

    6. VW

      Mm.

    7. RC

      They... Very, very thought-provoking. And one of them that I'm gonna make sure we pop up on screen-

    8. VW

      Yes

    9. RC

      ... on the YouTube version of this-

    10. VW

      Mm

    11. RC

      ... conversation, is how men and women's hormones change-

    12. VW

      Yes

    13. RC

      ... through their life.

    14. VW

      Mm-hmm.

    15. RC

      And the thing that I really took from this image was this idea that men have a gradual decline in testosterone over a number of decades.

    16. VW

      Yes.

    17. RC

      Whereas women have this sharp, precipitous decline-

    18. VW

      Mm-hmm

    19. RC

      ... in estrogen during perimenopause.

    20. VW

      That's right.

    21. RC

      Could you speak to that-

    22. VW

      Mm-hmm

    23. RC

      ... and speak to these more broad differences and why so many women go through what you went through, I think, at 47-

    24. VW

      Yes

    25. RC

      ... which you can perhaps explain at some point.

    26. VW

      Yes, I will.

    27. RC

      But just take us through what those differences are and how they manifest for us in terms of the quality of our lives.

    28. VW

      So let's start back at the first big bump in the road for everyone who lives, which is adolescence, right? We come into our hormones. We all expect that to be an awkward stage.

    29. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    30. VW

      We describe it as that. We describe it as, uh, all these body changes. It's something that we readily accept.

  6. 17:46 – 22:12

    Estrogen is a whole-body hormone: brain, heart, bone, muscle—and pain

    1. VW

      Yes. There is a normal, natural aging process, and in the book I talk about what I call the time bombs of aging. They're actually the hallmarks of aging. We know aging happens at a cellular level, but women have stacked on top the loss of estrogen. Let... Do you mind if I give you a couple organ examples?

    2. RC

      Oh, take your time.

    3. VW

      In the brain, for instance, the work of Lisa Mosconi has shown that the brain is covered, literally covered, with estrogen receptors. The work of Robbie Brinton-A brain scientist has shown that without estrogen sitting in those receptors, the brain literally starves and changes its chemistry. That's why it manifests as brain fog. We can't find our keys. We can't remember why we walked into a room. For me and many other women, I forgot nouns. Imagine this, I tell this story all the time, and I wanna tell everybody my brain is back. It's as good as it ever was because of the estrogen that I take now. But when I, bef- in my critical decade, before I became an expert on this, I would walk into the operating room, and I would know exactly what I was gonna do, and I was gonna know exactly how to do it, but I forgot the name of the piece of equipment that picks things up. And I would say to my scrub tech, "I need the thing..." For those of you listening, I'm, I'm doing a pincing motion. "I need the thing that does this thing." I needed a Nansen, which is a, which is a forcep.

    4. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    5. VW

      I could-- I knew exactly what I was doing, but I lost my nouns, and I frankly thought that I was getting dementia. So I start googling early signs of dementia. Think how frightening that is for a brain person.

    6. RC

      That is, yeah.

    7. VW

      Yeah. My... I'm a brain person. My brain's the best part of me. There's that. Many women experience that. Um, and I don't think it ends there. These mechanisms are not clearly worked out, but there must be a reason that 70% of all people with Alzheimer's are women. It can't just be coincidence. I think we're gonna work out the mechanisms to find that although multifactorial, it has to do with estrogen sharply declining. So that's the brain. The heart has an increase of 30% to 40% of microvascular disease.

    8. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    9. VW

      When men's hearts have, have, uh, disease, it's in the big, major vessels. For women, it's in the much smaller vessels, so it goes undetected a lot of times. But we know that estrogen plays a critical role in heart health. If we get to musculoskeletal health, which is obviously where I live, there's a natural rate of decline of bone for men and women of about f- 1% a year in their bone density. During perimenopause, that precipitously increases to 2% to 3% a year so that over five to seven years, 10 years, you can lose 20% of your bone density. So if you've never built enough bone as a child, and now you're gonna lose 20% of it predictably, that's why 70% of all hip fractures are in women. Muscle is the same way. We will lose 8% to 10% of our muscle, um, mass in the decades surrounding perimenopause. The list goes on-

    10. RC

      Mm-hmm

    11. VW

      ... and on and on. And so when I say men and women age differently, the most direct contributing factor, lifestyles being equal, has to be, at least in part, due to our estrogen.

    12. RC

      Yeah, it's interesting. Simply calling estrogen a sex hormone is so limiting-

    13. VW

      Oh

    14. RC

      ... isn't it? These labels we put on these things.

    15. VW

      Yes.

    16. RC

      And I feel medicine's done this in many different places.

    17. VW

      Mm-hmm.

    18. RC

      Actually, there's been unintended consequences, right? So by viewing estrogen purely as a sex hormone, we therefore don't think about the effects of estrogen-

    19. VW

      Yes

    20. RC

      ... on the brain-

    21. VW

      Mm-hmm

    22. RC

      ... or the heart-

    23. VW

      Mm-hmm

    24. RC

      ... or the bone. And you could sort of make the same case, like, with exercise, right, or physical activity, how for many years in society it was about weight.

    25. VW

      Yeah.

    26. RC

      Physical activity is what you need to do to maintain a healthy weight.

    27. VW

      Mm.

    28. RC

      And I would say, I think, over the last five or 10 years, realizing that your muscles aren't just dumb muscle sitting there.

    29. VW

      [laughs]

    30. RC

      They're also important for your hormones-

  7. 22:12 – 29:35

    Bone health rebranded: bone as master communicator (and why fractures are so deadly)

    1. RC

      ... and all kinds of communication molecules around the body. And then yesterday, I was watching this beautiful 30-minute video on your YouTube channel about-

    2. VW

      Oh

    3. RC

      ... bone.

    4. VW

      Yes.

    5. RC

      And I was thinking the same thing with bone, right?

    6. VW

      Yes.

    7. RC

      Like, muscle has had a PR job over the last five years, where we now understand that muscle is important for so much more than our physicality.

    8. VW

      Yes.

    9. RC

      And I feel with that video [laughs] and in this book, you're almost giving this kind of new marketing to bone, saying, "Hey, bone isn't just your structure."

    10. VW

      That's right. [laughs]

    11. RC

      Bone does so many other things.

    12. VW

      Absolutely, and I'm so glad you're giving time to this on this podcast because it is now a, a vision and mission of mine to help people understand a- and care about their bones. I mean, it's Fashion Week in around the world right now, and that's about the only time we think about bones is, oh, gorgeous cheekbones.

    13. RC

      [laughs]

    14. VW

      Look at our wrist structure, or when we fracture, obviously. Bones are seemingly silent until they break, and then they're screaming 'cause that's excruciating. But the reality is bones have so many functions in the body. From structure, sure, they're structural. Otherwise, you know, think about it. I love to say this out loud, that without bones, muscle that we're all in love with is just this heaping pile of metabolic tissue like a chicken breast on the counter. It does nothing but lay there. But with bone, you have structure. It gives you human form. It gives you locomotion, but it is a master communicator. Bone produces a multitude of hormones, one of which, uh, I talked about on that video you're referencing, called osteocalcin.

    15. RC

      Yeah.

    16. VW

      Yeah. Osteocalcin is released by the bone. It goes to your brain. It causes your brain to secrete bone-derived neurotrophic factor, which builds better neurons. So bone is helping you build a better brain, yes. It goes to your muscles and helps with glucose absorption. It goes to your pancreas for insulin, uh, release and resistance. In men, it goes to the testicles and helps you produce testosterone. There are gut, uh, bone-brain axes. There are bone-gut axes that are only being worked out. AndNot only do they talk to the rest of the body, but they are intimately talking to muscle and fat.

    17. RC

      Mm.

    18. VW

      Because the musculoskeletal system, fat, tendon, ligament, bone, muscle, muscle stem cells, are all from the same stem cell originally, the mesenchymal stem cell. They're all cousins. Why wouldn't they talk to each other and do so in a way that coordinates the whole body? And so not only is it a master c- a structural master communicator, it is the storehouse of all the minerals we need for our body to function, the calcium, the phosphorus, a lot of collagen. Bone is made out of collagen. When your body needs it to live, it will take it from the storehouse. It's not abnormal to resorb bone. What's abnormal is a disconnect between reabsorption and rebuilding s- because we use the products we store in our bone. It is also, believe it or not, the incubator of all of our blood cells. All of your blood cells are made in your pelvis, and when you're young, in your long bones. So if we were gonna do a stem cell therapy on you, we would get your stem cells from your pelvis.

    19. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    20. VW

      Isn't that fascinating-

    21. RC

      Yeah

    22. VW

      ... that bones are doing all these things? And listen, if I were designing a human being, why wouldn't I make bone the master communicator? Because we have bone from the top of our skull to the bottom of our pinky toe. It's a highway for communication. But you're right, we never think about it unless we're thinking about fracture. And it's funny, people say bones are silent. Bones are not silent, but we just can't hear them-

    23. RC

      Yeah

    24. VW

      ... until they break. And I'm gonna tell you from being in the trauma bay many years, it's excruciating, and I never want someone to have to deal with it. But we think about it, especially bone health with aging, because as we lose our bone density and break big bones like the femur or, you know, the top of the femur is the hip, um, especially in women, men break their bones, too. M- uh, uh, let's just talk about this. Two million men in the United States have osteoporosis. It's not just a disease of women, but more prevalent in women. 70% of all hip fractures, which is the biggest bone in the body, happen in women. The instant, literally the instant, snap your fingers, the instant you break that bone, you have a 30% chance of dying in the next year. I mean, that's grave. Isn't that? That is a grave statistic, that if we could think about our 12-year-old and our 17-year-old daughters that we have, to get their bones so strong at peak mass that they never reach that point.

    25. RC

      Yeah.

    26. VW

      So 30% of the time, Aunt Miriam, who's a story I told to the FDA in the United States recently as we're trying to change the thoughts about estrogen, 30% of the time she's gonna die, and if you live, 50% of the time you will not return to the home that you came from because you don't have the functional strength or, or you can't get up from a chair anymore. So bone is... That kind of fracture is not only a personal pain, it's a family and social dilemma. What do we do with Mom, right? Do we hire a full-time caregiver? That's expensive. Do we have her move in? You know, in some cultures, and I'm Chinese, in my culture, that's what would happen.

    27. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    28. VW

      I mean, my parents live with me, 'cause that's just what we do. But in many cultures, that's not what you do. You find a place for your parents to live. Well, if you find a place for your parents to live, that is prohibitively expensive many places, and so in the United States, you must use your life savings to pay for that at the rate of 5 to $15,000 a month until you're a pauper, and that's when the Medicaid-

    29. RC

      Yeah.

    30. VW

      Who wants to be in that situation?

  8. 29:35 – 42:51

    The “critical decade” (35–45): bone scans, early warning, and why young adults already have osteopenia

    1. RC

      This is huge. But how do you get a woman in their late 30s who is in what you call the critical decade-

    2. VW

      Yes

    3. RC

      ... which you can perhaps explain in a moment-

    4. VW

      Yes

    5. RC

      ... to actually care about this neck of femur fracture that they might get at 75?

    6. VW

      Yeah.

    7. RC

      Because that seems like, "Oh, yeah, whatever," you know.

    8. VW

      I'll deal with it then.

    9. RC

      I'm still active.

    10. VW

      Mm-hmm.

    11. RC

      I can still pick the kids up, and I can still see my girlfriends at the weekend and-

    12. VW

      Mm-hmm

    13. RC

      ... you know. How do you get someone in their 30s or 40s to care about those bone density implications later on in life? It's difficult, isn't it?

    14. VW

      It's so hard, because there's a temporal disconnect. There's this, there's this banking idea, I learned it from my bankers, that they experience called tem- temporal disconnect. On average, they cannot get the average person to save $10 for their s- fu- for their pension, right? It's the same in health.I cannot get people motivated in their youth for their old age. So for the women and men in the critical decade, which I call 35 to 45-

    15. RC

      I love that. Is, is it just for women though, or is it for men as well?

    16. VW

      No, it's for men. It is time to get your proverbial health standards in check, because if you build a lifestyle where you're eating a non-inflammatory, high-protein diet so that you're able to build, or if you're eating at all, many women decide not to eat enough.

    17. RC

      Mm.

    18. VW

      We can talk about that. If you've got your food down, and it doesn't mean you can't live and have an occasional... I, you know what, I had a piece of chocolate before I walked in here. I'm not talking about austerity. The standards of nutrition, a muscle-building practice, a cardiovascular building practice, it's a lifestyle to you. It is not a burden-

    19. RC

      Mm

    20. VW

      ... if that's just the way you live.

    21. RC

      My family and I have been wearing VIVOBAREFOOT shoes for over 12 years, and there is no way that I would go back to wearing cushioned shoes. The human foot is a masterpiece, but modern footwear has disconnected us from our natural movement, and barefoot shoes are a tool to restore that primal link. VIVOBAREFOOT strips away the unnecessary. No thick foam, no elevated heels, just thin, flexible protection that lets your feet move in the way that nature intended. When your feet can feel the ground, your body naturally moves better. Now, VIVO offer a fantastic range of shoes, office shoes, athletic shoes, but also amazing winter boots like the Tracker Forest, my current favorite, which is super comfortable, warm, and also has amazing grip. I can't recommend them enough. And if you want to give them a try, please do use VIVO's online sizing tools to ensure that you find your own perfect fit. To get 20% off your first order and enjoy a 100-day money-back guarantee, visit vivobarefoot.com/livemore, click on the link in the description box below, or scan the QR code on screen. I've been wearing a WHOOP band for about a year now, and it has had a transformative impact on my health and wellbeing. I've gained so many different insights, how different types of exercise or life stress affect my recovery, how different evening routines affect my sleep, and overall, it's helped me understand my own body much better. WHOOP is the only wearable that turns your health and fitness data into personalized guidance. And I'm pleased to announce that the all-new WHOOP band is now here, 7% smaller and with 14-plus days of battery life. The all-new WHOOP includes so many exciting new features, including hormonal insights and on-demand ECG readings. But I think, for me, my own personal favorite is Health Span, and seeing this regularly helps motivate me and keep me on track with my habits. Now, I've been a medical doctor for over 20 years. I think it's really important to use the WHOOP data as a tool to help guide you, not as something to dictate your life. Honestly, I don't think health wearables are necessarily for everyone, but for some people, like me, they can be absolutely game-changing. If you join WHOOP right now, they are giving my audience the all-new WHOOP 5.0 device, plus they are giving you the first month completely free. And if you're still not sold yet, there's also a 30-day money-back guarantee, so you can try it out for free. Go to join.whoop.com/livemore.

    22. VW

      The critical decade is the time to get that in order before you lose your hormones, right? For women, once you hit your mid-40s, now you're adding that burden that we already discussed.

    23. RC

      Yeah. It's almost as if we can kind of get away with things until our mid-30s, right?

    24. VW

      That's right.

    25. RC

      So yeah, there are health-promoting things to do, but even if you don't do them-

    26. VW

      You'll skim by

    27. RC

      ... you still seem to get by-

    28. VW

      Mm-hmm

    29. RC

      ... or a lot of us do in our 20s and early 30s.

    30. VW

      Yeah.

  9. 42:51 – 46:27

    Family-based movement: teaching kids to load bones through play (and reclaiming what adults abandon)

    1. RC

      And as you say, of course, you know, the kids today are digital natives.

    2. VW

      Yes.

    3. RC

      And it's something my wife and I are constantly talking about with our kids. I mean, my daughter's 12, and she got into netball about three years ago.

    4. VW

      Mm-hmm.

    5. RC

      And so she probably plays five times a week.

    6. VW

      Mm.

    7. RC

      And I'm delighted because she enjoys playing, her friends are there-

    8. VW

      Mm-hmm

    9. RC

      ... so there's this big social component.

    10. VW

      Mm-hmm.

    11. RC

      And I'm thinking, actually, you know what, if I think about netball through the lens of bone health-

    12. VW

      Mm-hmm

    13. RC

      ... there's a lot of impact-

    14. VW

      Nice

    15. RC

      ... a lot of jumping-

    16. VW

      Yes

    17. RC

      ... a lot of speed. Um, I'm thinking, this is good.

    18. VW

      Multidirectional jumping, perfect.

    19. RC

      Yeah, and I'm thinking, this is good, right?

    20. VW

      Mm-hmm.

    21. RC

      Because there's a social component for her.

    22. VW

      Mm-hmm.

    23. RC

      And as a side effect, she's getting all of this great movement in.

    24. VW

      Yes.

    25. RC

      I think the difficulty for me would be is, well, if she wasn't into netball, actually, and I know a lot of, uh, parents face this, if their children don't enjoy a particular sport-

    26. VW

      Yeah

    27. RC

      ... they could hear a podcast like this-

    28. VW

      Mm-hmm

    29. RC

      ... and think, "Well, hold on a minute. What are my kids actually doing-

    30. VW

      Mm-hmm

  10. 46:27 – 1:07:13

    Pregnancy and breastfeeding: how bone can be depleted—and how to rebuild

    1. RC

      Going back to this idea that women and men age differently-

    2. VW

      Yes

    3. RC

      ... I'm really interested as to what happens when a woman gets pregnant.

    4. VW

      Oh.

    5. RC

      Because I know that can have an impact-

    6. VW

      Completely, yes, uh-huh

    7. RC

      ... on bone health, and breastfeeding can as well.

    8. VW

      Yes, mm-hmm.

    9. RC

      So can you just talk us through that?

    10. VW

      Yes.

    11. RC

      Because again, I think it's empowering to realize the impact of those things-

    12. VW

      Yes

    13. RC

      ... and therefore what we can do on the other end.

    14. VW

      Completely love that you brought that up, because if we talk about that bone is a lifespan pursuit, we just talked about the young women, then when women enter their fertility years, when they're choosing to have children, or if you don't, bones are still of concern to you, but during pregnancy, we are building a baby from ourselves. The baby's not eating itself. The baby is eating the mother, either through the nutrients coming in, or if there's not enough, from her muscle, from her bone. Takes about 500 milligrams of calcium a day to build a baby. Where are we getting that? We're either absorbing it from the gut and then passing it to the baby, or we're resorbing the mother's bone.

    15. RC

      Um, and just for people who don't know what resorb means?

    16. VW

      Yes. It means that there's a, the way bone works, just as a bone building primer, how bones work, our bones are constantly doing something called remodeling, meaning taking a little bit away, building a little bit up. It's two different cell types. The osteoclast, with a C, is taking bone away, and then you use all the minerals that you've harvested. And then the osteoblast, B, blast, is building bone.

    17. RC

      Mm.

    18. VW

      And in normal circumstances, with enough hormones, that is a, a pretty equal process. Homeostasis, balance.

    19. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    20. VW

      Those are all synonyms. If your body requires more than you're able to build or replace, you will get in bone deficit. That can happen during pregnancy if we're not getting enough nutrition. The mother's body will prioritize the baby and resorb what it needs, regardless of what happens to the mother, such that-

    21. RC

      Mm

    22. VW

      ... there is a, a phenomenon called the osteoporosis of pregnancy. It's a documented medical phenomenon. Because women can lose a significant amount of bone density. Now, here's the good thing.Our bodies know this is gonna happen, and we are, we are designed to rebuild that bone, uh, post-pregnancy, but only if we eat enough. Mothers get busy. Sometimes they don't have time to take a shower, let alone eat, right? Pile on top of that breastfeeding. Now, I always like to have the caveat based on responses I've got that I am all for breastfeeding for women who choose to do it. I breastfed my youngest child for a year. I think it was that important. Where are we get... Again, it's the same argument. Where are we getting the nutrients from? It takes 500 milligrams of calcium a day to make enough milk for a baby. We're gonna take that from our bones. So every time your baby latches on, in addition to drinking water, we have to be thinking about replacing-

    23. RC

      Mm

    24. VW

      ... our calcium, our magnesium, our phosphorus, so that we don't end up in deficit. Because now with women, uh, millennial women delaying childbirth into their early 30s, mid-30s, um, we're entering the critical decade, right? So we have less time to build bone back, and then what if we're having children more rapidly at an older age, and so we may never have time to build back? I just want people, women to be aware, right? Because you can correct that. But if you never correct that, and then we've already talked about what happens in perimenopause, losing 15 to 20% of your bone density, do you see how this can add up across a lifespan such that it is not un- it is even more common for women truly in their menopause years, I, at, at this conference we were at-

    25. RC

      Mm-hmm

    26. VW

      ... I had many women come up to me afterwards and say, "You know what? I thought I was doing everything right." They're doing all the lifestyle things.

    27. RC

      Mm.

    28. VW

      But they go and get this DEXA scan or this REMS scan, and they're osteopenic or osteoporotic, and they're so disappointed-

    29. RC

      Mm

    30. VW

      ... because they thought they were doing everything right now. Well, they may be, but maybe they didn't build enough bone in their youth.

  11. 1:07:13 – 1:16:02

    Movement as the universal medicine: cellular aging, stem cells, and the F.A.C.E. framework

    1. VW

      So if we have, if we have hypertension, high blood pressure, there's a pill for that. If we have diabetes, metabolic disorder, there are a variety of pills for that. If there is heart disease, a pill for that. But there is one pill, one activity, one set of skills that treats everything, and that is movement, baseline. In fact, it is so critical in so many diseases that, um, a pro- I wish I had made this up. I didn't, but there's a professor out of, uh, Columbia University in Missouri in the United States that coined the word sedentary death syndrome. It is the 33 chronic diseases that we die from, including heart disease, that are directly impacted by the amount of movement we do. So how does that work? So, um, let's just take skeletal muscle contraction, mo- movement. Skeletal muscle contraction produces a, a, a cytokine, a hormone called irisin that is directly related to glucose metabolism, uh, insulin resistance. I've already talked about the way the bone talks to the brain and the muscle and the pancreas.

    2. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    3. VW

      So any time we're moving our body, it's not just locomoting us, it's changing us chemically on the inside. When I recommend people sprint at the end of their cardio workout, literally get your heart rate way up, that will change the number of mitochondria, which are the powerhouse units in our cells. It will help stimulate the r- uh, the division of something called satellite muscle stem cells, which are called satellite cells. Mobility in the form of exercise causes the transcription and changing of body molecules of more than 9,800 molecules every time you go out for a run. It's signaling your DNA to express the genes that you need to stay healthy. Um, it, it's just fascinating that, that one modality, mobility, can change us at a cellular level. It can change us at a tissue level. Um, here's an experiment we did in the labs with my partners that I had at University of Pittsburgh. Mobility is actually the fountain of youth for our stem cells. So what the experiment was this. We took little old lady mice. A little old lady mouse is two years old. She's old.

    4. RC

      [laughs]

    5. VW

      She's just sitting back in her cage waiting for her next meal. So we sampled her muscle, and we took out a few of her little muscle stem cells, and what did we find? We found that her muscle stem cells in sedentary living were dying. Dying cells, it's an active process.

    6. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    7. VW

      You turn on something called programmed cell death. They were dying. They had lost their round plumpness. Healthy cells are round like a grape. They were more like a, a, a, a branch.

    8. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    9. VW

      They were spindly, and they were no longer reproducing or producing growth factors. That's what these little old stem cells were doing. Then we took these girls, and I spent a lot of money buying mouse treadmills. It's unbelievable how much mouse treadmills cost. But I bought some, and we put these girls on the mouse treadmills, and they were just like the rest of us. They didn't wanna run, but we encouraged them to do so.

    10. RC

      Mm.

    11. VW

      Twice a day for two weeks, we ran these girls on treadmills, and then we resampled their stem cells. The spindly dying stem cells were now plump like grapes again.

    12. RC

      Wow.

    13. VW

      They were producing growth factors. They had turned off programmed cell death. So the simple act of mobility changed our stem cell function and rejuvenated it. It was a signal to these mou- mice bodies, these murine model, that we're not dead. We're living and ex-

    14. RC

      Yeah.

    15. VW

      So down to the cellular level, so... And that's what I'm trying to r- to explain to people in the book and give them... I mean, I think my readers are smart. They need to know why-

    16. RC

      Yeah

    17. VW

      ... not just go do this program. We can change our mitochondria. We can change the expression of our genes. We can change the amount of inflammation in our body-

    18. RC

      Yeah

    19. VW

      ... by regulating glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity, a- and really have profound changes of the hallmarks of aging by simple activities that become how we live, not just programs.

    20. RC

      Yeah. I, I love the bit sort of halfway through the book where you move on to the next section, where you've covered exercise in detail, and there's this beautiful chart where you, you've got listed all the time bombs of aging.

    21. VW

      Uh-huh.

    22. RC

      DNA change and damage-

    23. VW

      Yeah

    24. RC

      ... mitochondrial dysfunction, senescence, fuel gauge malfunction, and stem cell exhaustion.

    25. VW

      Yes.

    26. RC

      And then you cross-reference that-

    27. VW

      Mm-hmm

    28. RC

      ... with different kinds of exercise.

    29. VW

      Yes.

    30. RC

      And basically, you follow that chart. You go, wait a minute. If you do this hybrid training program-

  12. 1:16:02 – 1:42:10

    A real-world weekly training template: Zone 2, sprint intervals, and heavy lifting for strength/power

    1. RC

      do check out my book, Make Change That Lasts: Nine Simple Ways to Break Free from the Habits That are Holding You Back. It's in all the usual places as a paperback, e-book, and as an audiobook, which I'm narrating. Now, back to the video. So I guess my question to you is, at this stage in your life, are you able to share with us what a typical week of training or movement looks like for you?

    2. VW

      Sure, sure.

    3. RC

      And I appreciate that may not feel achievable for someone who's about to start, but I wonder if we could start off with what-

    4. VW

      Yeah

    5. RC

      ... you do.

    6. VW

      Yeah.

    7. RC

      And then we can perhaps wind back to someone who's never done any of this before and where they can start.

    8. VW

      Absolutely, yes. Um, and n- number one, I want people to give themselves grace because sometimes when people say what I'm about to say, they're like, "Ugh, I could never." It's not about that. Start where you are.

    9. RC

      Mm.

    10. VW

      And I'll give you the example. I'm on a book tour right now. I am really busy in different time zones, so I'm not doing everything that I would normally love to do, and I'm gonna give myself grace, it's the period of life, and not judge myself for it. But ideally, this is what I do. Um, I have a flexibility and mobility practice, meaning I am trying to stretch out my tendon, ligaments, and muscles nearly every day. This is where... I don't do Pilates or yoga, but if you do, this is where that comes in to be marvelous. I do s- a dynamic warmup every day, which gets every joint, every set of tendons and ligaments around my major joints moving, right? So daily flexibility and mobility.

    11. RC

      10 minutes?

    12. VW

      You know what, it's just a series, and it's outlined in the book, the dynamic warm-up. It's just a series of 10 things that if I do the inchworm motion, it warms up my ankles, my knees, my hips. If I do, um, hamstring extensions, it gets my hips and my knees.

    13. RC

      First thing in the morning? Is that when you tend to do it?

    14. VW

      No, I do it before I work out.

    15. RC

      Before you work out.

    16. VW

      To work. I d- I put it all together.

    17. RC

      Yeah, that's interesting. And, and the only reason I ask is because I do mobility every day-

    18. VW

      Yeah

    19. RC

      ... but it's part of my morning routine.

    20. VW

      Oh, that's great.

    21. RC

      So I'll get up.

    22. VW

      Yeah.

    23. RC

      I'll-- at the moment, I'm really into meditation, so I'll meditate, and then it's in my living room, which has got a carpet on the floor, so it's straight afterwards. I'll probably spend five, 10 minutes just doing a whole variety-

    24. VW

      Yes

    25. RC

      ... of mobility exercises.

    26. VW

      Mm-hmm.

    27. RC

      I almost feel like it's waking up all of my joints-

    28. VW

      Mm-hmm

    29. RC

      ... for the day ahead.

    30. VW

      Yeah.

  13. 1:42:10 – 1:48:18

    VO2 max and the frailty line: predicting independence decades in advance

    1. RC

      And I wanted to talk about VO2 max.

    2. VW

      Okay.

    3. RC

      Right? Because, again, one of my other favorite chapters is this almost self-assessment chapter-

    4. VW

      Yes

    5. RC

      ... where I know we mentioned DEXA scans before and what people can do, but you go through the kind of self-assessment process that people can do on themselves, even if they don't want to see a doctor-

    6. VW

      Yeah

    7. RC

      ... or pay any money for anything-

    8. VW

      Mm-hmm

    9. RC

      ... which I think is, is really, really awesome. But in terms of really trying to get this idea through to people that what you do in your 20s and your 30s and your 40s impacts your 70s, your 80s, and your 90s, I love the way you've described VO2 max and the frailty line.

    10. VW

      Yes.

    11. RC

      Okay, so could you just outline-

    12. VW

      Mm-hmm

    13. RC

      ... what is VO2 max?

    14. VW

      Mm-hmm.

    15. RC

      What is the frailty line?

    16. VW

      Yeah.

    17. RC

      And therefore, what are the implications for us in our lives?

    18. VW

      VO2 max is the best measurement of your overall fitness. It's cardiovascular fitness. It actually measures oxygen diffusion, which means passage from your, from the blood in your heart to your lungs. It's, and therefore measures how fit you are. The, the higher your VO2 max, the more fit you are. And now endurance athletes, like, uh, Tour de France athletes, they're just genetically specimens. I mean, and their VO2 max is just outrageous, like 95.Most people, for their fitness level to be great, it's considered in the 50s to 60s of, of this measurement. Um, what happens is with time and disuse, our VO2 max will decline 10% a decade. And so you may think, "Okay, great, I'm not trying to be a endurance athlete. Why does that matter?" Because there is a line which you have cited, the fragility line, where you are too frail, you have so little fitness, you cannot take care of yourself. Meaning, once you have so little fitness, you cannot get up from a chair by yourself, you gotta live with somebody or you gotta move into a home. So our goal is to never pass the fragility line. So if we're gonna lose 10% of our VO2 max if we don't reinvest in it-

    19. RC

      Yeah

    20. VW

      ... now we can build VO- But let's say you're not gonna make the effort. You will lose 10% per decade. So if you start out with a low VO2 max in midlife, say 30, 25, take 10% away per decade, at some point in your life you are likely to pass the fragility line and not be able to get up from a chair and not be able to take care of yourself. For men and women, the line is 15 to 18. So we, you know, great is 50. If we pass 15 to 18, we're not getting up from a chair and living independently. We can work on that by a different type of exercising protocol called the Norwegian protocol, which is going as fast as you can in an aerobic activity for four minutes, and then recovering, but only for four minutes. And by using the Norwegian protocol one time a week, you can build your VO2 max.

    21. RC

      Mm.

    22. VW

      So it's not that all hope is lost if you find yourself in midlife with poor fitness. But again, it's like bone, you're starting behind the eight ball.

    23. RC

      Yeah. I guess the central message there is, is that although it's not inevitable that we're going to become frail as we get older, it is inevitable that there are gonna be some changes in your body.

    24. VW

      Absolutely.

    25. RC

      And that's the normal process of aging.

    26. VW

      Normal.

    27. RC

      And of course, there's many things we can do to improve things. We can stay active.

    28. VW

      Mm-hmm.

    29. RC

      We can do it in, you know, this kind of hybrid-type training-

    30. VW

      Yep

  14. 1:48:18 – 1:55:28

    Hormone replacement and informed choice: the WHI fallout and risk framing

    1. RC

      There's perfection, and there's also make progress from where you are. Let's now talk about hormones.

    2. VW

      Okay.

    3. RC

      Right? Because right at the start, Vonda, you mentioned how there's a precipitous drop in estrogen for women in perimenopause. In your book, you also make the case that to you, estrogen is the elixir of longevity.

    4. VW

      Yes.

    5. RC

      Does it necessarily follow, then, that all women need to replace their estrogen?

    6. VW

      Here's how I position this. I believe that every woman is a sentient being with agency to make her decision, but I insist that that decision be made based on facts and not fear. And here's what I mean. Prior to the 2002 Women's Health Initiative study, which was a study done by the National Institutes of Health in the United States, more than 40% of women in the US, I don't know the, the, uh, European numbers, but, uh, 40% were optimizing their estrogen by replacing it because of the known effects it has on bone and muscle and heart and brain.After the Women's Health Initiative was published with the data that has been now strongly refuted as a travesty, the current number is between 2 and 4%, not because estrogen is bad for you, but because of the fear that was released from that study that made a blanket statement, which turns out to be nuanced and not true, that you will have a high incidence of breast cancer. You can't put that genie back in the bottle. Generations of women still today come into my office, and when I start talking about it, they just automatically say, "I can't do that. It causes cancer," to which I have to walk back, "Well, here are the data. You are free to make your own decision." S- so if we go to that data, do you mind if I name the one piece of data?

    7. RC

      Please.

    8. VW

      So out of that-

    9. RC

      Hey, take your time. This is really important.

    10. VW

      It's critical.

    11. RC

      And I know people listening are gonna wanna know your perspective on this.

    12. VW

      Yeah, so the Women's Health Initiative was designed, and it's-- and a lot of good work has come out of it, but not this piece of work, not this particular question. W- was-- the question initially was heart disease as it relates to, uh, giving hormones. Now, at that time, because of when it was, the hormone they used was conjugated equine estrogen, which is a synthetic form, or which is a form that comes from pregnant horse urine. Um, now what we're talking about when I advise people to, um, consider estrogen replacement, we al- we also have the options of transdermal using patches, so it's not only these pills made out of horse's urine. But in the, in the WHI, they were asking the question, does a estrogen replacement increase cardiovascular disease? So they recruited older women. The women in this study were in their 60s, uh, on average. Here is the data that they found. They stopped the study early, called a press conference. Dr. Russeau, the head of the study, uh, called a press conference, from reading about that time and talking to people who were actually there, without consulting the study group of other doctors, and announced that the study was being stopped because estrogen caused breast cancer. Here are the data. In the women who did not take estrogen, the incidence of new breast cancer diagnosis was 3 out of 1,000. 3 out of 1,000. For the women in the study group who were given estrogen and sometimes synthetic progestins if they had a uterus, the incidence was 3.8 per thousand. So the difference between control group and, and study group was 0.8 women per thousand. Less than one woman per thousand was subsequently diagnosed with breast cancer. Now, listen, I am not making light, because one is one. One woman is one woman. I was a cancer nurse. I get it. I was taking care of, in my youth, women struggling with this. But for one woman in 1,000, estrogen was taken away from generations of women, just blanketly taken away, and in the same study, there was no increase in cancer deaths.

    13. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    14. VW

      So instead of making this blanket statement, which has now affected women for generations, from which we have a high incidence of frailty in women and suffering, for what? So I think every woman gets to make her decision. If 0.8 is enough for you to not wanna be on it, that's your decision. But I personally, and the women I w- I take care of, I value my brain too much to let it starve to death. I value my heart too much to allow myself to develop 30 to 40% more microvascular disease. I don't wanna lose any more bone than I've had to lose.

    15. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    16. VW

      And I feel like myself again.

    17. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    18. VW

      Because my brain is back. I am stronger than I've ever been, and it is all the things I'm doing-

    19. RC

      Yeah

    20. VW

      ... but it's also because I've given my body back what it's always had, which is estradiol, which is the, the compound our ovaries make; progesterone, because I have a uterus; and once we're settled out on that, I often discuss testosterone use with women. Because the reality is women make more testosterone than we make estrogen. It's a hormone, not a male hormone.

    21. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    22. VW

      And so I think every woman has the right to make those decisions.

    23. RC

      Yeah. Thank you for sharing that.

    24. VW

      Mm-hmm.

    25. RC

      It's really interesting for me to hear your own experience and, of course, that of many of the patients you've seen over the years.

    26. VW

      Yes.

    27. RC

      And yes, the fallout of the WHI study has had huge implications-

    28. VW

      Yes

    29. RC

      ... across society, and particularly for women, for, for a number of years now. Going back to the start of this conversation, when you were explaining that estrogen declines, so every woman is gonna have a decline in estrogen-

    30. VW

      It's inevitable

  15. 1:55:28 – 2:02:30

    Why symptoms vary across cultures: stress load, pain normalization, and community support

    1. RC

      So help me understand this from your perspective, that on the face of it, that would imply that all women would benefit from estrogen supplementation.

    2. VW

      Mm-hmm.

    3. RC

      At the same time-I think if we look around the world, we see clearly that there are certain communities around the world where women don't seem to report the same number of symptoms-

    4. VW

      Hmm

    5. RC

      ... through menopause.

    6. VW

      Mm-hmm.

    7. RC

      And that there are women in their 70s and 80s who seem to be thriving-

    8. VW

      Mm-hmm

    9. RC

      ... having not replaced their estrogen. And again, this, I- I've seen so many women have their lives transformed-

    10. VW

      Mm-hmm

    11. RC

      ... once they start taking hormones.

    12. VW

      Yeah.

    13. RC

      But I find that interesting to go, what is it?

    14. VW

      It's a struggle. What is that, right?

    15. RC

      What is going on?

    16. VW

      Mm-hmm.

    17. RC

      Because also, you mentioned before about how women, if you're breastfeeding and you're not careful about, uh, replacing those nutrients, you could be losing a lot of your bone structure. And as you were describing that, Vonda, I was thinking about the modern world, and in particular, the modern Western world, where actually now women are having to do so much. Now, you know, there used to be a time in many cultures, and even in Western culture, where women would be supported during pregnancy and in the early years, right? While they were breastfeeding, the family would support them and go, "Actually, this is a time where we need to really take care of the mother and the baby, make sure the mother has time to rest, that we're also..." Do you know what I mean? And that, that-

    18. VW

      I do. I've read about it in books, but I've never seen it in my life.

    19. RC

      E- exactly.

    20. VW

      [laughs]

    21. RC

      And it does... And of course, it's very hard now in these, in the modern world where people are often not living near their parents-

    22. VW

      Yes

    23. RC

      ... or their family.

    24. VW

      Mm-hmm.

    25. RC

      Often two parents in a two-parent family-

    26. VW

      Yeah

    27. RC

      ... are working.

    28. VW

      Yes.

    29. RC

      There's a pressure, particularly in the United States, for women to get back to work really, really quickly. So I wonder, and I, I have this question in my head all the time, what is going on? Is it that in those other cultures, yes, we think they're doing well, but had they been given estrogen, they would be doing even better? Or is there something about the stress load in our modern Western world which is exacerbating these issues?

    30. VW

      Interesting.

  16. 2:02:30 – 2:05:57

    Closing mindset: a personal vision statement and the core message of self-worth

    1. RC

      ... and take control of their health. One that we've not really gone into, which is, as, when you arrived today, I sort of shared was one of my favorite things in the book, is there's a chapter on mindset and a chapter on resilience.

    2. VW

      Yes.

    3. RC

      And just to sort of bring this conversation to a close, in the mindset section, you talk about a vision statement and why you think it's really important for every woman who goes on this journey to have their own vision statement. What's your vision statement?

    4. VW

      You know, I have a vision for, um, being able to do what I wanna do when I wanna do it at all times. It doesn't matter if I'm my age now or if I'm 97, I want to have that independence. Because if I'm that independent, then I'm gonna have the fullness of life that I've worked for my whole life. I'm gonna have the fullness of relationship in an equally, um, giving relationship. I won't be just a taking. You know, my children, hopefully I'll be giving back as much to them as, as they're giving to me in my old age, right? And so I just want that independence. And to have that vision, it takes active pursuit now. It's just not gonna happen.

    5. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    6. VW

      Um, and all the visions that, and this is what I teach people, have to be based on your values. Who are you? What do you wanna be? What do you really value in life? And from that you can build your vision, because otherwise, if you don't have that, these are just six-week programs. These are just more things to do without the end purpose.

    7. RC

      Yeah. The book is called Unbreakable: A Woman’s Guide to Ageing With Power. And right at the end of this conversation, which I have thoroughly enjoyed-

    8. VW

      Aw, thank you

    9. RC

      ... for that woman who has been listening-

    10. VW

      Mm

    11. RC

      ... who your words have sparked a little bit of interest.

    12. VW

      Mm-hmm.

    13. RC

      They have started to see themselves differently.

    14. VW

      Mm-hmm.

    15. RC

      They've started to go, "Well, wait a minute. Yeah, Vonda's right, actually. I have neglected myself. I have put everyone else first. I've not looked after my bone health. I've not looked after my physical health. I've never done anything for me, but now I see, Vonda, why it's so important."

    16. VW

      Mm-hmm.

    17. RC

      For that woman who hasn't done much before but wants to get started-

    18. VW

      Mm-hmm

    19. RC

      ... what are your final words to her?

    20. VW

      What I want you to know about this whole process and this book, before anything else, is that you are worth the daily investment in your health. You have worth. That means that you can focus on yourself. You can prioritize these things ahead of everyone else you love and serve, because you are worth it. You were created and made and have value. Until you believe that, you will continue to neglect yourself.

    21. RC

      Vonda, thank you so much for coming on the show.

    22. VW

      My pleasure.

    23. RC

      If you enjoyed that conversation, then I think you are really going to enjoy this one.

    24. VW

      When we talk to women about what they think is a normal calorie intake, especially active women, they're like, "Oh, well, I eat 15 to 1,800 calories a day." That is not enough

Episode duration: 2:05:58

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