Gary Vee: The AI Opportunity Is Real — You're Just Looking at It Wrong

Gary Vaynerchuk 0:00 I need everybody to hear this. The middle class will be in trouble.

Marina Mogilko 0:04 Do you think it's our last chance to build wealth?

Gary Vaynerchuk 0:07 It has the chance to create hyper micro-wealth, but I think a lot of people are gonna check out of this era.

Marina Mogilko 0:13 This is Gary Vaynerchuk, serial entrepreneur, best-selling author, and early investor in Facebook, Twitter, and Uber. He predicted TikTok, talking to computers, and the creator economy before anyone saw it coming. And in our lifetime most unpredictable moment, I went straight to him for answers. What would you do if you have a laptop and AI?

Gary Vaynerchuk 0:34 I would build an app that's 5 to $50 a month, make unlimited organic content, and try to [beep] .

Marina Mogilko 0:41 For me, as a person in Silicon Valley, I can totally see how Anthropic releases new lines of codes tomorrow and this business is done. Why would I start if it's already being automated?

Gary Vaynerchuk 0:50 Because everything you learn along the way will set up your next thing. What are you gonna do, lay down and cry? I'm asking you.

Marina Mogilko 0:55 [laughs]

Gary Vaynerchuk 0:57 [laughs]

Marina Mogilko 0:58 [laughs]

Gary Vaynerchuk 1:00 Yes. Uh,

Marina Mogilko 1:04 In Chicago, I was like ho- I da- I showed up. [laughs]

Gary Vaynerchuk 1:08 I didn't know.

Marina Mogilko 1:09 [gasps]

Gary Vaynerchuk 1:10 And they went, and I just battled and got through it. It was pretty cool.

Marina Mogilko 1:13 Well, you do speak Russian, which is amazing.

Gary Vaynerchuk 1:15 Yeah. Yeah, I can speak Russian.

Marina Mogilko 1:15 I'm glad you... Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 1:16 Russian, huh? Crazy. So- no,

Marina Mogilko 1:22 I

Marina Mogilko 1:26 actually wanna talk about AI and what's happening. And, um, you know, I've been watching you for eight years now, so I've been preparing for this interview for eight years, and what I noticed about you is that you're right at so many things. I remember you predicted TikTok, and you're the reason I started TikTok. I have 3 million followers there 'cause you were like, "You need to start a TikTok."

Gary Vaynerchuk 1:44 Yes.

Marina Mogilko 1:45 When you're looking at this AI era, do you think it's our last chance to build wealth right now?

Gary Vaynerchuk 1:52 That's a great question. You know, one of the things I try to do is when I talk about things publicly, I've spent a lot of time thinking it through, and I've seen indicators of actual human action that shows me an insight to the earliest of preview of something I think will be at scale. So that's why a lot of my predictions have worked out. It's a... Like, when I talk about our grandkids marrying AI robots, well, it's already happening in Japan.

Marina Mogilko 2:18 It is.

Gary Vaynerchuk 2:19 And so, like, to me, that's not a long putt. That's just something that's happening in a part of the world that clearly, to me, is a human psychology, and so it's gonna work. Your question's interesting because my intuition is it has the chance to create hyper micro-wealth, the fragmentation of, you know, vibe coding and all this stuff, and the stuff we're already seeing, right? Kids building out products very quickly and having success. On the flip side, you're also alluding to clearly the super scalers, right? When you look at what Meta and Microsoft and Google and App- like, the biggest... and companies in China, like, you could see a winner-takes-all scenario where 12 or 13 companies. My gut is that the economy and the consumer behavior is so large that, yes, there'll be 25 companies that take so much, right? You look at, you know, Adobe and Salesforce and ServiceNow, SaaS companies.

Marina Mogilko 3:20 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 3:20 I mean, SaaS companies are clearly coming out of an incredible 30-year run and now walking into a potential buzzsaw. You know, I saw a headline yesterday. I don't know if it's true, I mean, it just... You know, I was busy yesterday. But X- or maybe it was Claude. Claude just made- gave everybody a Bloomberg terminal for free. You know, like-

Marina Mogilko 3:39 Yeah

Gary Vaynerchuk 3:39 ... those kinda headlines seem very real to me. They seem really natural. But it's almost like Meta or Anthropic or, or someone else is gonna eat up more Bloomberg and ServiceNow and Salesforce. Like, th- it's like the battle of the titans.

Marina Mogilko 3:56 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 3:56 And then over here on the scraps, well, the scraps actually might be quite big, and it might be a social media-like era where all of us become, literally all of us, become vibe coders. Like, just like I thought... One of my great predictions in 2008 was everybody would have a social media account when it did not seem like that.

Marina Mogilko 4:18 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 4:19 Is everyone going to have a mini app that is monetizable 'cause they themselves were able to build it, not need a developer for 500,000? I don't know.

Gary Vaynerchuk 4:32 I think, I... So I, I, I believe that the middle will be in trouble, and the middle might be a VaynerMedia, you know. Um, but I have a feeling the h- the, the separation of the middle class of entrepreneurship and could be real. The difference is the long tail could be quite at scale, maybe even then creating this middle, you know, this middle class. I don't know. If you put a gun to my head, I would say no, it's not our last chance.

Marina Mogilko 5:01 Okay, so we have a few years, [laughs] right?

Gary Vaynerchuk 5:04 I think so. And a- again, let me take another counter just to build on this, the conversation. If it is our last chance and 79 companies make all the money, governments will get massively involved.

Marina Mogilko 5:14 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 5:14 And, like, it may lead to a nirvana. Like, you know, back to where we come from and where we're sitting, could extreme capitalism mean a different version of socialism, right?

Marina Mogilko 5:28 Coming back to the roots. [laughs]

Gary Vaynerchuk 5:30 You know what I mean?

Marina Mogilko 5:30 Yeah. Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 5:30 Could a world where there's only 100 companies that make 80% of the monies, would they then be forced to subsidize all the depl- displaced workers? Do we live in a three-day work week environment with the other four days subsidized from the companies that we work from? Do we have more leisure? Do we get more into the arts and family? And do we have side projects that make these micro pennies? I don't know.

Marina Mogilko 5:53 So what if tomorrow everything crashes for you, like VaynerMedia-

Gary Vaynerchuk 5:56 [laughs]

Marina Mogilko 5:56 ... you lose your followers. What would you do if you have a laptop and AI?

Gary Vaynerchuk 6:00 If I d- lost my reputation and my personal brand, but I kept my knowledge of how to make content on socialI would build an app that's five to $50 a month, and I would make unlimited organic content on LinkedIn, Twitter, TikTok, and try to get customers.

Marina Mogilko 6:19 If you want to stay ahead in the AI era, I bring you the people who see what's coming next every week.

Marina Mogilko 6:26 Subscribe to this channel so you don't miss it. That's very interesting approach. I just talked to Bill Gurley, who's like a legendary investor.

Gary Vaynerchuk 6:32 Of course.

Marina Mogilko 6:32 And he told me, "You can't even imagine how many websites are there that are just like passport photos that charge you $6." And yes, AI can do that, but because we're still so used to going to a website and paying, and they're making tens of thousands of dollars a month, and we just don't realize it. 'Cause for me as a person in Silicon Valley, right, I'm looking at all the businesses and I'm like, "Okay, I can totally see how Anthropic releases new lines of codes tomorrow, and this business is done." And that's-

Gary Vaynerchuk 6:55 It's not how consumers work. He's right.

Marina Mogilko 6:57 Exactly.

Gary Vaynerchuk 6:58 It's not how it works.

Marina Mogilko 6:59 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 6:59 And in fact, I would argue what I do for a living and what I'm obsessed with actually explodes in this next era. It's all gonna be about brand because you have to discover it. Y- there w- in 30 years by default, somebody will be like, "Oh, let me go to the main AI thing, and I don't need to..." But there is going to be a long period of time here.

Marina Mogilko 7:18 Yeah, so there is this long tail we still need to adjust. We're... As humans, we take some time to adjust to new reality, so.

Gary Vaynerchuk 7:25 When you're a Silicon Valley Girl and you even know who Bill Gurley is, you live in a different world than the 99.9% of people on Earth who've never heard of Bill.

Marina Mogilko 7:34 And that's opportunity for everyone who's listening-

Gary Vaynerchuk 7:36 Correct

Marina Mogilko 7:37 ... because transitioning to that era together with small companies, small businesses, other people, educating them, I feel like there is a lot of potential there.

Gary Vaynerchuk 7:44 When you layer what I've been obsessed with about the last 20 years, which is there is a advertising and brand-building ecosystem called social media that does not cost you money, and that's the point about AI apps. It really doesn't cost you money anymore to build something in the way that I grew up. Um, but the fact that you can actually get awareness, that you're one TikTok away from having people know who you are and building a platform, that's, that's intoxicating.

Marina Mogilko 8:12 But do you have another worry? Talking about social media, right, I see a lot of AI content, and, uh, we're getting flooded with so much content, so we're competing more. But also, another thing that I'm always thinking about, what if the social media platform... Like, why would they pay human creators? Why would they not just, you know, generate AI creators? This is much more personalized content. It's free, and they don't have to pay anyone.

Gary Vaynerchuk 8:33 Well, platforms don't pay people.

Marina Mogilko 8:35 Well, some of them do.

Gary Vaynerchuk 8:37 No, they really don't. Like, f- Meta doesn't pay people. TikTok doesn't pay people. Like, they don't pay people. They, they are an open vessel that people go on and create for, and then businesses come and sit in between people that make content and people that consume content, and then the businesses advertise on there or go to a creator and do a brand deal. Now, if you're saying, why would L'Oréal go to you, like they might today, versus someone that looks kind of like you that they could even own, like a Mickey Mouse, 'cause-

Marina Mogilko 9:08 Exactly, and make 100 videos versus one.

Gary Vaynerchuk 9:11 They're, they're going to do that. That is very-

Marina Mogilko 9:13 So how-

Gary Vaynerchuk 9:13 Now, right now there's stigma around that, and big companies are scared to go too deep into AI 'cause there's pushback. But over the next five to 10 years-

Marina Mogilko 9:20 Yeah

Gary Vaynerchuk 9:20 ... they will. Now, what they might use you for, though, is you might be one of the hundred faces they use, 99 of which they own the IP, but you're gonna be able to do this. I think the rise of analog value is gonna be extraordinary. So we're sitting in this world right now where people... a lot of people behind the scenes doing stuff. I think, you know, for me, and I think you know this about me, I'm, I'm comfortable and good in both environments, both behi- in- with my thumbs and right here. That person's gonna do incredibly well. The person that's very comfortable with analog, hosting a conference, having 25 people in this room right now while we do this, right? Brands are gonna find incredible value in the analog world, real life. Restaurants, real life studio podcasts. Like, real life is gonna explode. We're gonna live in this barbell world, extreme technology, but extremely scaled. What we take for vantage, us four, is like, that's normal. Like being outside, like a pop-up shop, you know, going to a sporting event. They're gonna continue to increase in value. And so yeah, you're gonna be... Like, the game's gonna change. But I remind influencers... Influencers are crying to me quite a bit right now, like, "Gary, AI did a..." I'm like, "You took money from real celebrities." 20 years ago, none of us existed, and all of that money went to Jennifer Aniston. If you were on Shark Tank, you were the only business people. I, I, Gary Vee, do not have a television show. I get comped for speaking fees and appearance fees greater than most of the Sharks, right? That would've never been possible. So the world turns.

Marina Mogilko 11:02 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 11:02 Shit changes.

Marina Mogilko 11:03 We just get too comfortable in our space and-

Gary Vaynerchuk 11:05 Well, what's funny is when we're young and we're disrupting something, we like it. But when we're the one that gets-

Marina Mogilko 11:10 [laughs] Yeah

Gary Vaynerchuk 11:10 ... disrupted, we don't like it.

Marina Mogilko 11:12 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 11:12 Right?

Marina Mogilko 11:12 How are you adjusting your social media strategy?

Gary Vaynerchuk 11:15 Nothing because of what we just talked about. To me, I stay in... My last book I wrote was called Day Trading Attention. I live in that environment. So if AI wasn't even happening right now, I'd still be focused on what I'm focused on, long form written content, so much more Substack, beehiiv, LinkedIn, X, longer form content.

Gary Vaynerchuk 11:34 So I hired two full-time writers on my staff, journalists, who basically will l- listen to this entire interview, and he's gonna come up with 15 to 20 follow-up questions, which is why I needed someone who had a journalistic background. 'Cause if it was just transcribing, I can AI that.

Marina Mogilko 11:48 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 11:49 And then we will create a first-person article about the barbell theory, why analog is on the rise, right? So a lot more written content.

Marina Mogilko 11:57 Interesting. And I feel like it's becoming so much easier, 'cause I remember a couple years ago, I met... uh, four years ago, I met someone from LinkedIn. They were like, "You should be on LinkedIn." I'm like, "I can't write."

Gary Vaynerchuk 12:06 Yeah.

Marina Mogilko 12:06 "So- I'm so bad at that." And then ChatGPT came around, and my LinkedIn's growing like crazy.

Gary Vaynerchuk 12:11 Yeah, and I've always had ghostwriting infrastructure for my books 'cause I've never been able to write, and... but I've always wanted it. You know, it's funny, every book I've writtenEveryone, with my written content, people come up to me, they're like, "Man, it sounds so much like you." I'm like, "It is fully me."

Marina Mogilko 12:25 [laughs]

Gary Vaynerchuk 12:25 'Cause it is truly s- transcribed from my words. I don't write differently than I talk because it's just the transcription. But so writing content, um, I'm incredibly focused on being, and this, I'm pushing my team right now on this, on just being remarkable on every platform. Like, obsession to how to win Snapchat Spotlight, obsession to understand how to be great at YouTube Shorts to make sure I'm feeding the LLMs of Gemini with my content.

Marina Mogilko 12:52 Why Shorts, not long-form?

Gary Vaynerchuk 12:54 Both.

Marina Mogilko 12:55 Both.

Gary Vaynerchuk 12:55 But I think, but Shorts allows me to pump out a lot of how to, why.

Marina Mogilko 12:58 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 12:58 Right? There's a little bit of a different thing there. Um, so just,

Gary Vaynerchuk 13:03 just hyperfixation on the craft of the written word, the images, um, testing new formats. W- I ca- I call it PAC, platforms, so I need to know everything that's happening on Substack, X, Pinterest, Instagram, TikTok, Shorts, all that. That's algorithms. Within those, what kind of content, what format, what kind of p- is it a reel? Is it a full... Like, w- with, uh, on LinkedIn, is it wr- right now, imagery is doing incredibly well. Video crushed last year. It's declining a little bit this month. Like, just so what's the algorithm within the platforms doing? And then C, culture. Like, what is happening in popular culture across everything? Like, the, you know, America's long and popular culture fed from Black culture. Now we're seeing Hispanic culture, we're seeing Korean culture impact so much of US pop culture. Slang terms, quarter zip, uh, Labubus in then out, uh, the Starbucks bear tumbler for three weeks, then not, Stanley Cups, then not.

Marina Mogilko 14:08 I love your passion-

Gary Vaynerchuk 14:09 Y-

Marina Mogilko 14:09 ... when you're talking about this. Like, I see [laughs]

Gary Vaynerchuk 14:11 Well, 'cause pop col-

Marina Mogilko 14:12 Yeah

Gary Vaynerchuk 14:12 ... you know, bag- baggy pants for guy-

Marina Mogilko 14:14 Mm

Gary Vaynerchuk 14:14 ... like, pop culture is relevance, right? I can make one reference in here of something that's happening in popular culture, and then for somebody who's listening, if they're also into the same thing I'm into, immediately we are connected.

Marina Mogilko 14:27 Connected.

Gary Vaynerchuk 14:27 Right? We are connected by being born in the same pla- like, people look for... We're tribal. We love sports. Religion is because the way it is. Cultures, we have i- you and I met immediate- we, we're just from the same place. It is what it is. But by the way, when I walk outside right now, if somebody's wearing a Jets hat, they're immediately my brother.

Marina Mogilko 14:47 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 14:47 So w- you know, I think pop culture, especially in B2B environments, is very misunderstood, but even B2C environments. The biggest consumer brands I work with in my day-to-day, I, I think they underestimate pop culture.

Marina Mogilko 15:02 Yeah, even creators. Like, I'm talking to so many big brands, and they're, they've never advertised with creators, and I'm just surprised. Let me pause here for a second, because what we've been talking about connects directly to something my team has been actively testing. Running a media company, the operational load never stops because you prep for podcast episodes, you have to push content to multiple platforms, and somewhere in between, a million documents landing in your inbox waiting for your decision. That's our day-to-day, and a few weeks ago, my team started testing something that's been changing how we handle it. That's Accio Work. And what I appreciate most about it is that you can build a full secure agent team for your business, not just one AI. Each agent has its own identity, intelligence, tools, skills, and persona. You can create as many as you need, full custom, and they work in parallel with a pre-built library of connectors already set up. Gmail, Shopify, HubSpot, social platforms, nothing to configure. And here is what that actually looks like in practice. So for example, my team runs three agents, a strategist, a producer, a CPO. The CPO leads the agent team, keeping operations aligned and making sure nothing falls through the cracks. The producer works under the strategist. Content decisions are always backed by data before anything goes into production. Each agent has a defined role, a clear reporting line, and they coordinate directly with each other without me in the middle. You can also set up recurring scheduled tasks, things that run automatically every day without anyone touching them. Set a time, set a task, and it runs. For example, every morning at 10:00 AM, my CPO agent sends the whole team a briefing with the latest industry news. No one has to ask for it. It just lands in the chat. Accio Work is built by Alibaba, 26 years of B2B infrastructure behind it. That's what makes it different from a generic tool. Right now, there's a limited time offer, two weeks of unlimited access to top-tier models, including Claude Opus 4.6. The link is in the description.

Marina Mogilko 16:59 So you, you're saying you're not running faster because of AI, you're just doing whatever you're doing.

Gary Vaynerchuk 17:03 I'm saying that I don't have a different social media strategy right now because of AI, per se. If I wake up from a coma right now in seven years and everything's different, it will not take me long to get back on the bike and be successful, 'cause I'll just spend 100 days paying attention to, where is everyone paying attention to? Oh my God, AI changed everything. We're back to reading newspapers? Okay, I'm gonna make newspaper ads. Like, it's not complicated.

Marina Mogilko 17:30 Mm-hmm.

Gary Vaynerchuk 17:30 The thesis is simple. Understanding in how to be good at the thesis is hard.

Marina Mogilko 17:34 Has your hiring changed because of AI? How many people do you have now?

Gary Vaynerchuk 17:37 You know, it's funny you say that. We at Vay- You know, so I have many different companies, but the biggest one I run is VaynerX, VaynerMedia, and there, there's Chuck Media and the Tamara Group, three very large advertising agencies, all of which do something pretty similar. We're exploding, and I'm having this very, very challenging game. I mean, I was in Seattle yesterday, as you heard before we went on here. I met with the three biggest companies that are HQ'd there, all of which are like, "We wanna do more with you. We wanna do a lot with you." Two that are already working with us, a third that wants to jam with us. So the demand of customers is exploding. I still need an extraordinary amount of human beings, 'cause it's a human-based business. Yes, I understand that AI can do the job of a, uh, it is not lost on me that 100 people can now do the work of 400 people.I'm just worried about the output wars of the future. What if you're competing with somebody that has 400 and you have 400? You cut 200, and they still have 400. And in our world, you and I, we're like, "Ah, we're outflanking them. We're gonna be better. We're gonna make more EBITDA. We're gonna..." But what if they weaponize those 400 people with the same tools that we weaponize our 200 people?

Marina Mogilko 18:48 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 18:48 In my world, advertising, if my 400 people now make 27,000 ads and your 200 people make 16,000 ads, for whatever human element is there, and I understand it doesn't work that way, but there, this concept of is AI a shield and a sword and a gun versus rocks in a war, right? You would think 200 will beat 400. But what if the 400 also have shields, sword? Like, and so there's something here that I haven't fully figured out. I'm definitely being cautious. We are definitely first and foremost attacking things that do not have value. For example, if you're a project manager at VaynerMedia, and your sole... 'Cause, you know, every project manager comes in different shapes and sizes, but if you're the kind of project manager who only takes notes, like, that is how you'd-

Marina Mogilko 19:46 Yeah

Gary Vaynerchuk 19:46 ... well, that person has already been kind of smoked out and asked to do more.

Marina Mogilko 19:50 Was

Marina Mogilko 19:51 there something that you transformed with AI within your team that blew your mind? You're like, "Oh my God."

Gary Vaynerchuk 19:56 I- my mind has not been blown since kind of the... You know, I had a lot of friends in, in Silicon Valley talking that machine learning was getting better and better, and I'm just like, maybe I'm impressed on how fast everything is happening, but I'm in a point where, like, f- yes.

Marina Mogilko 20:14 It's normal for you now.

Gary Vaynerchuk 20:15 To me, basically, here's where my head's at. I'm gonna take my phone and be like, "Build this app. I want it to do this. Enter. Done." So if I'm already there, everything in between is just a step to that. That's where I think we're going.

Marina Mogilko 20:25 Anything you transformed in your process or you just started executing by yourself? I mean, like building apps.

Gary Vaynerchuk 20:31 I- probably the biggest thing that happened to me is I am an anthropologist pop culture strategist, so g- having that level of thinking power with me that I used to rely on search and, like, just digging around the internet, that was profound.

Marina Mogilko 20:49 I feel, I feel the same. When I was flying here yesterday, I was, uh, playing with, uh, Claude Skills-

Gary Vaynerchuk 20:54 Yes

Marina Mogilko 20:54 ... which is, like, a skill that you can build-

Gary Vaynerchuk 20:55 Yes, of course

Marina Mogilko 20:55 ... that executes for you. So, like, it w- it was preparing me for this interview, and I was like, "This is fascinating." I feel like I'm a superhuman [laughs] with all these tools. 'Cause Perplexity computer every day sends me stocks to buy. Claude Skills does my research. It's just fascinating.

Gary Vaynerchuk 21:10 Yeah, but I also think it's, it feels like a superhero today the same way I felt with the iPhone, that first year with the iPhone. So I bought the iPhone the day it came out. The... Especially in New York because of Wall Street and any big city, there was BlackBerry obsession, and I felt like a superhero that first year because I could go on the internet for real, not like the way the BlackBerry people could, and that gave me a hyper advantage. Like, I would go and do... At that point, I was already out a- about a little bit. I would go and do something, and I could look something up before I, like, went on stage or went into a meeting, and that was, like, powerful in a way that, you know, I didn't have to do with my laptop, even though that used to have that. It was just so fast. You feel like a superhero with Claude, Perplexity, GPT. Uh, Meta's infrastructure's starting to get very impressive. To remind everybody who's listening, your grandmother in the office did not have internet, did not have AI, did not have social media.

Marina Mogilko 22:07 Didn't have an office. [laughs]

Gary Vaynerchuk 22:07 Didn't have an office, to your point. Did not have mobile computing. Did not have computer in office. Did not have internet. Like, yeah, I mean, this is just technology.

Marina Mogilko 22:19 But do you feel that we're in this period of time, and we are, like, 1% at grasping technology? Do we need to run faster to make the most out of it? Or are you like-

Gary Vaynerchuk 22:27 Well, it depends on the human ambition. I mean, I think a lot of people are gonna check out of this era. Let's talk about Silicon Valley. I have a lot of Silicon Valley friends who were psycho all in, going so hard during early Web 2.0, 2005, '6, '7, '8, blogging, podcasting, and then social, who made enough money and are in a different part of their life now-

Marina Mogilko 22:50 Yeah

Gary Vaynerchuk 22:50 ... who have given a shit about AI and blockchain. Could care less.

Marina Mogilko 22:53 For somebody who wants to build wealth, this-

Gary Vaynerchuk 22:54 Yeah

Marina Mogilko 22:54 ... I feel like this is just such an opportunity, and it's unique for the next 10 years. I feel like-

Gary Vaynerchuk 22:59 Yes

Marina Mogilko 22:59 ... we have this year.

Gary Vaynerchuk 23:00 Yes.

Marina Mogilko 23:00 And then it's basic for everyone.

Gary Vaynerchuk 23:03 I don't think... I think that's makes sense that you think that, and I understand that. I think you and I will see each other in 10 years and be like, "Man, you were right." It just, the, i- as much as it looks like AI creates a winner-takes-all world, I have a funny feeling it's not going to.

Marina Mogilko 23:18 Okay.

Gary Vaynerchuk 23:19 Because don't forget, there is the human... Like, there's, it's gonna take too much time. Like, you know what people don't do well? Hang with me for a second. Let's play this game.

Marina Mogilko 23:28 Mm-hmm.

Gary Vaynerchuk 23:29 Let's, let's take that point. Let's say 10 companies want everything. Do you literally think that eight billion people are gonna be like, "Yeah, that's awesome"?

Marina Mogilko 23:36 No.

Gary Vaynerchuk 23:36 Okay. That's-

Marina Mogilko 23:37 And governments won't-

Gary Vaynerchuk 23:38 But-

Marina Mogilko 23:38 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 23:38 So-

Marina Mogilko 23:39 Yeah

Gary Vaynerchuk 23:39 ... that's, that's it.

Marina Mogilko 23:40 It's just funny to hear this from you 'cause you're the one like, "Hustle. Do this." Like-

Gary Vaynerchuk 23:44 People don't like to take my sentence in its totality. Hustle, go hard if you complain and are a crybaby and you don't realize that accountability can help you. Hustle if you like it so much that you would do it if it was free. I would build businesses if it was free, meaning, like, it gave, made me n- like, it's my joy. I build companies the way people like to go golfing and cooking and watching movies. It's more fun to me. You know, it's so funny. We put on a pedestal someone who's a philosopher or, or a great reader, someone who reads books all day in their rooms, a real thinker, and writes. Oh, wow, so noble. That's what I do. I just do something with it-

Marina Mogilko 24:27 Yeah

Gary Vaynerchuk 24:27 ... on the other side. [laughs] You know what I mean? So I think hustle, if it makes you happy, one could argue that the extreme opposite of hustle-... is what I also do. I mean, you- the more you know me, the more you would realize I'm incredibly detached from my career or my, or my public persona. I'll make it very blunt. I don't give a [beep] about Gary Vee or my Vayner empire. I do not think it makes me better than. Who cares if I'm good at business? Some people are good at skiing. Some people are good at singing. Some people are good at writ- Like, it just happens to be something I'm good at. I have my self-worth wrapped up into who I show up as as a human to people in my life, that I'm a nice guy, that when I l-

Marina Mogilko 25:13 Was that a switch ever in your life, or-

Gary Vaynerchuk 25:15 Absolutely not.

Marina Mogilko 25:16 Mm.

Gary Vaynerchuk 25:17 Never. It was ingrained in me by my mother and my circumstances and my DNA.

Marina Mogilko 25:22 What would you say to someone who thinks their worth is tied to their results, and that makes them very anxious in this era?

Gary Vaynerchuk 25:29 Correct. Um, I would tell them that first of all it depends on what results, right? You know, if you're saying financial results-

Marina Mogilko 25:35 I don't know. I'm in Silicon Valley.

Gary Vaynerchuk 25:36 Great

Marina Mogilko 25:37 Your company's valuation. [laughs]

Gary Vaynerchuk 25:38 I would say I understand. It's a very common human trait. I would also say that almost everybody I know on Earth that is wrapped up in that metrics mindset has incredible anxiety, and anxiety sucks.

Marina Mogilko 25:51 How do you separate yourself from it? But I feel like it's easier to say for you, 'cause you have all the millions followers already and millions of dollars.

Gary Vaynerchuk 25:59 You're saying that because you don't know me. If my friends that have known me my whole life will tell you that I have the millions of followers and dollars because I've always been this way.

Marina Mogilko 26:07 Mm.

Gary Vaynerchuk 26:08 Even when I'm-

Marina Mogilko 26:09 That's the reason. It's not the-

Gary Vaynerchuk 26:10 Right, my detachment, because I have an incredible relationship with losing.

Marina Mogilko 26:17 Mm.

Gary Vaynerchuk 26:17 I like it.

Marina Mogilko 26:19 What do you tell yourself when you lose?

Gary Vaynerchuk 26:21 That I sucked and that was funny and let's not try to do that again, and, like, what can we do d- Like, I love the chall- You know, I was the kid when I, when I was losing in sports or ping pong or pool, like, I loved playing again. I loved playing again. I loved playing again. I didn't think me losing in front of my sister or mom meant that I was lesser than. I played outside of this short-term validation framework, and I also was incredibly structured to not struggle with peer pressure. In high school and in college when so many of my contemporaries did everything for validation amongst their peers, I did not. And that was just tremendous parenting, luck of the draw with DNA, and the circumstances I grew up with.

Marina Mogilko 27:01 What,

Marina Mogilko 27:02 what are you telling your kids?

Gary Vaynerchuk 27:04 Well, they're not me. I'm tell- I'm trying to leave deposits on that, but they're growing up in a very different environment. Now, luckily, my children share a lot of mine and my ex-wife's DNA and are also a little bit cocooned. Like, my 17-year-old daughter does not live her life for her friends' or boys' attention, so she's cooking with gas. My 13-year-old son also, he's ... I, I would have said three years ago, I'm like, "Mm, let's..." He's already starting to, like, really develop this. And so, you know, look, DNA is a real [beep] thing. And then when you have parents that are conscious and are pushing you on the right things, the only core thing they're for sure they have different is environment. I don't have this ideology for my children to be exactly like me or just like me or they need to be hungry like I was. I want them to be happy and lack anxiety like I was, and that comes into this, not anything else. This.

Marina Mogilko 28:04 Any tip how to teach that? I have a four-year-old and a six-year-old, and I feel like they really rely on what other kids think of them. What do you, what do you tell your kids?

Gary Vaynerchuk 28:12 I pounded that narrative into my kid verbally. Like-

Marina Mogilko 28:15 You just tell them, like, you-

Gary Vaynerchuk 28:17 I think it's cr- Like, as young as that, I would tell my children, like, "People making fun of you, people saying you're awesome means nothing. How do you feel? What do you like?"

Marina Mogilko 28:28 Yeah, and learning not to react to positive things and negative.

Gary Vaynerchuk 28:33 The reason I can deal is I today have 95% validation, 5% skepticism and pushback. It's the, it's the goat emojis in my Instagram posts that I have to not pay attention to, not the, "You suck, Gary," or, "You got lucky," or y- y- you know, "You're a snake oil s-" Like, to me it's not hearing the accolades. I'm telling you that that's where the lack of anxiety comes from. I don't need to have a house or a plane or a third home or a Nobel Peace Prize or 40 million followers or an exit to impress Bill Gurley. I don't need that. It is not what my life is about. I like it, but I feel like I'm an athlete who wants to be great on the field, but off the field, that is not the man that I think I am.

Marina Mogilko 29:23 I feel like everybody should learn this type of mindset, especially now, 'cause also I have this question from my team-

Gary Vaynerchuk 29:29 Please

Marina Mogilko 29:29 ... who read your, um, piece, AI Splits People into Architects and Masons.

Gary Vaynerchuk 29:33 Yes.

Marina Mogilko 29:34 And half of my team thinks they're masons.

Gary Vaynerchuk 29:36 But they have the ability to become an architect.

Marina Mogilko 29:38 So how do you deploy that mindset when you know you're losing right now-

Gary Vaynerchuk 29:43 Yep

Marina Mogilko 29:43 ... 'cause AI is replacing you, but how do you go to the next step of your career utilizing this mindset, that I don't need external approval, and this mistake of failure is in me?

Gary Vaynerchuk 29:53 How do you lose 25 pounds when you know you're not feeling great? I'm asking you.

Marina Mogilko 30:01 Well, it's either/or. You die sooner than if you don't. [laughs]

Gary Vaynerchuk 30:05 Yeah, there's that outcome, but how do you do it? I'm not saying what the outcome is, and you're right about that.

Marina Mogilko 30:10 You can... Like, I don't know. I'm, I don't have this problem-

Gary Vaynerchuk 30:13 Right

Marina Mogilko 30:13 ... so I can't relate. My husband has this problem.

Gary Vaynerchuk 30:14 Okay.

Marina Mogilko 30:15 He loves sugar.

Gary Vaynerchuk 30:15 Yeah, me too.

Marina Mogilko 30:16 So yeah, he just feels worse, and for, for him, it's s- it's stopping sugar completely.

Gary Vaynerchuk 30:22 Yep.

Marina Mogilko 30:22 That what works.

Gary Vaynerchuk 30:23 Yep.

Marina Mogilko 30:23 Like, completely.

Gary Vaynerchuk 30:24 But, but it's hard.

Marina Mogilko 30:25 It is.

Gary Vaynerchuk 30:26 Like, I go through patches where I also cut it out. I ... So I'm your husband. I have the same issue. Sugar is the real bane of my existence. To me, let me tell you how I stopped drinking soda for every beverage.13 years ago. I also- I hired a full-time person to l- literally 12 years ago. There would've been a man in here right now to make sure I didn't take a sip of-

Marina Mogilko 30:50 Really?

Gary Vaynerchuk 30:50 For one year.

Marina Mogilko 30:51 [laughs]

Gary Vaynerchuk 30:52 I took an extreme measure of babysitting to get me into the discipline. He suffocated me to then get into patterns to get into the discipline, and then it became my norm. If you are a mason and you wanna become an architect, you can cry about it. You can stop and start. We all stop and start in health, in wellness, in work, in d- but you need to, for it to become your actual pattern. It becomes your norm. To your point, sometimes it's cold, but it starts here first. Like, what I would... If I had that whole team right now, I'd be like, "Listen, you can do it. You have to believe that. If you don't, it's... What are we gonna do?" Like, it first starts mentally, and then it starts physically. Like, you need to start using these tools to help you think better, to put in the work. T- you need to start reading. You need to start doing this. You need to start hanging out with these people. Like, you need to start taking from your leisure-

Marina Mogilko 31:44 Yeah

Gary Vaynerchuk 31:44 ... which you're using to get a escape from your concern, and you need to allocate some of your leisure time into more work. You have to go to the gym and eat better. That starts with your mind, but then it has to happen with your actions. And then you just have to stay into that conversation. Like, this is staying in a conversation. The reason the world is so tight right now is we've stayed in the negative conversation for 10 years, but, like, my newsfeed is not politics. My newsfeed is not telling me that the world is going to [beep] .

Marina Mogilko 32:17 [laughs]

Gary Vaynerchuk 32:17 My newsfeed doesn't tell me that my parents had it better than me. Like, you're in control of your algorithm. You're in control of the people that you spend time with. Look at all the people that are listening to this right now. These people chose to follow you and listen to you. Some are here because this is the first time they're listening to you because they follow me. Knowing enough of your platform and definitely knowing my platform, these are people that are choosing offense. These are people that are choosing optimism. These are people that are choosing to try to figure it out.

Marina Mogilko 32:45 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 32:46 That same person could have a twin sibling who right now, we're on a... This is a Saturday morning that you and I are filming this, who might be watching Netflix to- this morning, which is lovely, and you should have leisure, but why are they watching it? Are they watching it because they, they have a little side dish of leisure and enjoyment? That's beautiful, but if it's their main course and they're doing it because they had an anxious week and they're devastated that they have to go back Monday, now I'm concerned.

Marina Mogilko 33:12 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 33:12 Does that make sense?

Marina Mogilko 33:13 Totally.

Gary Vaynerchuk 33:14 Like, to me, leisure and escapism needs to be side dishes and amuse-bouches, not the main meal.

Marina Mogilko 33:21 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 33:21 When it's the main meal, you are escaping your actual life that isn't going well.

Marina Mogilko 33:27 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 33:27 And that's what I think.

Marina Mogilko 33:28 Gary just told me that AI is splitting people into architects who build things and masons who do things, and most people don't even know which side they're on yet. Future Proof is my weekly newsletter where I break down exactly what architects are doing right now that masons aren't, the tools, the moves, the mindset shifts. Link is in the description. Please subscribe. It's absolutely free, and I talk about a lot of practical things there. Let's talk about people

Marina Mogilko 33:55 who are watching who are immigrants-

Gary Vaynerchuk 33:56 Yes

Marina Mogilko 33:56 ... because I have a lot of immigrants watching. You came to America at age three. I came when I was 25. For someone who arrives today, what is the first thing they should be doing?

Gary Vaynerchuk 34:06 [sighs] I think it's a framework of... It's funny we used curiosity. I think it's a framework of self-awareness, humility, and curiosity. So self-awareness is if you come from Guatemala, Poland, you know, South Korea, and you're here in the US or you're... Or by the way, you're an American who's deciding, like, "Ah, I don't l-" you know, one, one of those people, which you're allowed, and you're moving to Sweden or you're going from India to England or England to Argentina. No matter what shift you're making, a, a lot of people listening here will move to other countries because of jobs. Their wife got a... Is... Their wife's the big executive. They're the entrepreneur, and she just got a big job, a- and now you're moving to Portugal. When you are new in an entirely new country, immigrant, I think there's three things to rely on. Number one is self-awareness. Who are you? Right? When I came over, you know, the... I was a kid, but the older generation, these people were engineers in the Soviet Union, and they were literally cleaning toilets.

Marina Mogilko 35:06 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 35:06 That was the second part, humility. You know, humility is a superpower. You know, I'm aware that my humility does not show up on the internet 'cause that is not the way I communicate, but I will tell you that in my real life behind the scenes, it is one of the beacons of my success. I've never gotten away from the kid that immigrated. Like, with all the stuff on paper, I still don't think I'm better than. I don't think I am l- have earned the ability to not put in the work or to be gracious or to be kind or whatever it might be, so I would say self-awareness. Who are you? What are you good at? You have to then see if that's available to you in the country. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it's not. Nuclear engineers from the Soviet Empire literally had to clean, you know, toilets because America wasn't just giving them jobs, and then they had to build themselves up, and they owned a pharmacy later on. You know how-

Marina Mogilko 36:01 Yeah

Gary Vaynerchuk 36:01 ... it all worked out, right?

Marina Mogilko 36:02 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 36:02 Humility. I know that you were the big dog in India, but maybe here in Poland, that doesn't work, or you were amazing... You were a good creator in America, but now for some reason you live in Indonesia, and you don't have that many followers in Indonesia. Humility, right? And then back to curiosity. For me, I would just... If, again, face got ripped off like that John Travolta, uh, in, uh, John Travolta, Nicolas Cage movie, reputation lost, I find myself in Peru. This is where I'm going. Who am I? I have good people skills. I have h- I have work ethic. I know how to buy and sell. I know consumer behavior. Next, humility. I'll go work at a storeAs a cashier. If I have nothing, if I have nothing. And then curiosity. At night, after I get back from the, the store, what's going on here in Peru? Like, where's my angle? What can I do? What can I sell? So that is my advice, that emotional framework, and then you have to act on it. Ego is just pure insecurity.

Marina Mogilko 37:00 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 37:01 Ego is just pure insecurity.

Marina Mogilko 37:03 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 37:03 Posturing-

Marina Mogilko 37:04 Yeah

Gary Vaynerchuk 37:04 ... trying to be the big dog. That just means you're [beep] scared. That means you're a [beep] . [laughs]

Marina Mogilko 37:08 And that places limits on what you're doing-

Gary Vaynerchuk 37:10 Yeah

Marina Mogilko 37:10 ... 'cause you're trying to feed your ego versus build something.

Gary Vaynerchuk 37:13 Yeah, you're just... You, you are not good internally, thus you must render your peacocking to trick everyone around you.

Marina Mogilko 37:20 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 37:21 I... And by the way, I'm not mad at that. Do you know that I'm not mad at people that are like that? I'm sad about it.

Marina Mogilko 37:26 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 37:26 I wish they could like themselves for all... I... Do you know how many shortcomings I have? Plenty. We all do.

Marina Mogilko 37:35 Yeah.

Marina Mogilko 37:36 Okay, if someone's watching right now and they're like, "Okay, I'm gonna work on all of this, but I really wanna build in this AI era," what do you think is the biggest opportunity right now?

Gary Vaynerchuk 37:45 It goes back to the last question. There's a million of them. I just don't know the person that's listening right now. For example, if you're overly charismatic, the biggest opportunity is to go live streaming on the internet and then drive all of that audience to an AI app that you built that's 10 bucks.

Marina Mogilko 38:01 Before it's automated by AI. 'Cause have you seen in China how they're doing this live-

Gary Vaynerchuk 38:05 Of course

Marina Mogilko 38:05 ... they, they just basically-

Gary Vaynerchuk 38:07 Yes

Marina Mogilko 38:07 ... put an item in front of the camera and it's automated, and there is this AI person already wearing it or showing it. It was crazy.

Gary Vaynerchuk 38:13 That's right. Include- including the influencer is AI.

Marina Mogilko 38:16 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 38:16 It's, it's me-

Marina Mogilko 38:17 Yeah, it's always

Gary Vaynerchuk 38:17 ... and I put your face on me, and I'm-

Marina Mogilko 38:19 Yeah

Gary Vaynerchuk 38:20 ... a woman selling makeup.

Marina Mogilko 38:20 Crazy.

Gary Vaynerchuk 38:21 I mean-

Marina Mogilko 38:22 But c- like, when I think about this, like, why would I start if it's already being automated?

Gary Vaynerchuk 38:27 Because everything you learn along the way will set up your next thing. What are you gonna do, lay down and cry?

Marina Mogilko 38:31 I don't know. Find something else. 'Cause I'm talking to a lot of entrepreneurs.

Gary Vaynerchuk 38:34 Yeah.

Marina Mogilko 38:35 They're in this stage. They're like, "Oh, I really wanna do this," but then, yeah, it's just gonna be taken away by a big com- company in-

Gary Vaynerchuk 38:41 You're too-

Marina Mogilko 38:41 ... a week

Gary Vaynerchuk 38:42 ... you're too young for this, but in 2005, '6, '7, '8, '9 in Silicon Valley, the same thing was being said. Why would I start this?

Marina Mogilko 38:48 Mm.

Gary Vaynerchuk 38:48 Google's gonna copy it.

Marina Mogilko 38:49 Mm. Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 38:50 You're just, you're just talking to fake entrepreneurs.

Marina Mogilko 38:53 Okay. [laughs]

Gary Vaynerchuk 38:56 Real entrepreneurs are willing to lose. Real entrepreneurs know that the two years they work on something that clawed [beep] up was two years of them working on something that sets up their next thing. Real entrepreneurs don't know how to do anything else.

Marina Mogilko 39:13 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 39:14 Real entrepreneurs don't lay down and cry. Real entrepreneurs don't say, " [beep] it, I'll just go get a job." Real entrepreneurs are real entrepreneurs.

Marina Mogilko 39:21 Yeah. That goes back to knowing who you are-

Gary Vaynerchuk 39:23 Correct

Marina Mogilko 39:23 ... and what your passion is.

Gary Vaynerchuk 39:23 And by the way, let me say something right now. This is actually a beautiful segue. I need everybody to hear this. If you're listening right now and you think you're an entrepreneur, but these last three minutes of this talk are triggering some weird feelings, do you know how awesome it was to be the number seven at Facebook? Do you know how incredible it was to be the number nine at Tesla? Do you know how epic it is to be number 34 at LinkedIn, Microsoft? I mean, like-

Marina Mogilko 39:52 How cool it is to be a podcaster.

Gary Vaynerchuk 39:54 Correct. Like-

Marina Mogilko 39:55 Yeah

Gary Vaynerchuk 39:55 ... this concept that, like, again, I grew up, entrepreneurship wasn't even a word. Being a businessman was not cool. And then I, ironically, was part of the movement that kinda made this thing cool. But I have been talking for 10 years of like, please, it's only cool if you are that.

Marina Mogilko 40:12 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 40:12 It's cool... It's not cool to be a teacher if you're not a teacher. It's not cool to be, you know, [beep] it's not cool to be anything if you're not actually.

Marina Mogilko 40:21 If you're not that.

Gary Vaynerchuk 40:22 You know?

Marina Mogilko 40:23 Yeah. That is a good ending. And I have

Marina Mogilko 40:26 a few questions that are fire speed.

Gary Vaynerchuk 40:27 Rapid.

Marina Mogilko 40:28 What are your top three favorite AI tools that you use daily?

Gary Vaynerchuk 40:31 GPT, Claude, and honestly, the Mangus is really in the la... like, like, is really ex-

Marina Mogilko 40:39 Meta's?

Gary Vaynerchuk 40:39 Yeah, Meta's met- Like, I'm, I'm, like, just a couple weeks going in, but it's-

Marina Mogilko 40:45 Do you use it for your Instagram?

Gary Vaynerchuk 40:46 Yeah.

Marina Mogilko 40:47 I feel like they have access to all the data, so-

Gary Vaynerchuk 40:48 Correct

Marina Mogilko 40:49 ... they can, they can do better analytics than anyone.

Gary Vaynerchuk 40:51 Correct.

Marina Mogilko 40:51 Okay. That's, that's a good one to work on. What's your favorite prompt?

Gary Vaynerchuk 40:55 My favorite prompt is me intuitively feeling something that's happening in culture, right? Uh, I, I'll give you one right now. Does the baggy pants movement for men have another domino to fall? Like, I will l-

Marina Mogilko 41:12 That's a very advanced prompt. So you know exactly what's happening and you're trying to predict what's next.

Gary Vaynerchuk 41:17 Correct. That is almo-

Marina Mogilko 41:18 Okay

Gary Vaynerchuk 41:18 ... that-

Marina Mogilko 41:19 Mm-hmm

Gary Vaynerchuk 41:19 ... almo- almost everything I'm doing is that, for me-

Marina Mogilko 41:23 Mm-hmm

Gary Vaynerchuk 41:23 ... for what I like to do-

Marina Mogilko 41:24 Yeah

Gary Vaynerchuk 41:24 ... professionally and personally.

Marina Mogilko 41:25 Okay.

Marina Mogilko 41:26 College degrees in 2026, yes or no?

Gary Vaynerchuk 41:31 For 50% of the people that are listening right now, yes, they need that degree to do the profession legally in medicine. For the most creative and entrepreneurial people, yes, if mommy and daddy paid for it, because 18 to 22 as a full-pledged vacation to hang out with other 18 to 22-year-olds is a lot of fun.

Marina Mogilko 41:54 It is.

Gary Vaynerchuk 41:54 And you will work your whole life. No, for 18 to 22-year-olds that are taking on substantial debt, who are creative and entrepreneurial.

Marina Mogilko 42:05 Yeah, makes sense. One industry

Marina Mogilko 42:07 to stay away from.

Gary Vaynerchuk 42:09 None. Everything's in pl- I mean, I'm t- I mean, look, betting your whole life to be an admin who doesn't think. An admin that's a mason, not an admin that's architect, bad. Admin that's architect, huge. I'm gonna hire people that have the power of 13 and, 13 admins for me, and she or he is gonna sit at the top of that, and I'm gonna pay that person a [beep] fortune to make my life effective.

Marina Mogilko 42:41 Yeah. And the last

Marina Mogilko 42:42 one. What's the most misunderstood thing about AI right now?

Gary Vaynerchuk 42:45 The counter to whatever anybody's thinking. So for the people that are delusionally thinking this is the greatest thing ever, the counter of the negatives that are gonna happen. And for the people that think everyone's [beep] in China and Perplexity and Anthropic and America and Russia, there's gonna be nine countries and nine companies and everybody else is [beep] are out of their [beep] minds. The counter to the extremism of what people think.

Marina Mogilko 43:13 Thank you for your positivity and energy.

Gary Vaynerchuk 43:15 You're welcome.

Marina Mogilko 43:15 It wa- it's really charging, right? What you're saying gives energy to create, versus like just lie down. [laughs]

Gary Vaynerchuk 43:21 And I think, I think that sits... I, uh, thank you, and I wanna s- end with this. That, that doesn't sit in some blind optimism or, or even the great parenting that I was given. It sits in historics. It is historically true that we were scared of electricity and it wasn't. We were historically true to get off the farms. We did so much more. It's, humans are great. I know we're told that we're not. But 99.999% of us are either neutral or great. And if it, and if I am wrong, here's why I'm this way. And if I'm wrong, I promise you you're not gonna worry about your job. If I'm wrong, we're all dead anyway.

Marina Mogilko 44:02 [laughs]

Gary Vaynerchuk 44:03 So either I'm right that you should choose practical optimism, and there's gonna be a million opportunities for you if you go insular and work on you.

Marina Mogilko 44:10 Yeah.

Gary Vaynerchuk 44:11 Or if unfortunately I'm wrong-

Marina Mogilko 44:14 Then who cares? [laughs]

Gary Vaynerchuk 44:15 ... I'll see you in [beep] heaven.

Marina Mogilko 44:17 [laughs]

Gary Vaynerchuk 44:17 Like, you know, you know, like, this c- I mean, I don't get it. It's not practical to be pessimistic and cynical. It is not practical.

Marina Mogilko 44:25 Yeah. You heard Bill Gurley's name enough times today that I think you know what's coming. In our conversation, Bill shared a mindset shift that's worth every minute of your time. I put the video right here on the screen, and let me know in the comments if you came from this episode with Gary.