How AI Is Breaking the Rules of Biology | Dr. Priscilla Chan, Chan Zuckerberg Initiative

1. 0:00 – 1:10

   Teaser

   1. PCDr. Priscilla Chan0:00

      science is going to be fundamentally different in, like, five years.

   2. MMMarina Mogilko0:03

      What would it mean for me as a patient?

   3. PCDr. Priscilla Chan0:05

      This is the part I'm so excited about.

   4. MMMarina Mogilko0:07

      This is Priscilla Chan, a Harvard graduate who went to UCSF School of Medicine to study pediatrics. She treated children at UCSF until one moment in the clinic changed everything.

   5. PCDr. Priscilla Chan0:18

      It was honestly scary, and really shook my understanding of medicine.

   6. MMMarina Mogilko0:22

      In 2015, alongside her husband, Mark Zuckerberg, [camera clicking] they launched the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, with the most ambitious goal.

   7. PCDr. Priscilla Chan0:29

      Our mission is to cure, cure or prevent all disease, and we used to say by the end of the century, but I think it's much sooner. I would say, like, in the next- [beeping]

   8. MMMarina Mogilko0:38

      Ten years later, they've invested over $7 billion, built three Biohubs, and are committed to creating AI models that map human cells, [camera clicking] unlocking how disease begins and how it could end. And once we do that, what will be the first diseases that you think are gonna be cured?

   9. PCDr. Priscilla Chan0:55

      Um.

   10. MMMarina Mogilko0:55

       She's betting on a future where science, data, and AI converge to end sickness as we know it. The only question is, how soon can we make that future real? [electronic music]

   11. PCDr. Priscilla Chan1:06

       We're rolling now.

   12. MMMarina Mogilko1:07

       Okay.

   13. PCDr. Priscilla Chan1:08

       Okay.

   14. MMMarina Mogilko1:08

       Perfect.

   15. PCDr. Priscilla Chan1:09

       All right.

   16. MMMarina Mogilko1:09

       Okay.

2. 1:10 – 2:35

   Marina shares why Priscilla’s openness about miscarriage meant so much to her

   1. MMMarina Mogilko1:10

      Priscilla, thank you so much. Um, I have a personal story that I wanted to share.

   2. PCDr. Priscilla Chan1:13

      Okay.

   3. MMMarina Mogilko1:14

      In 2015, you and Mark shared that you were pregnant with your first baby, but also that you've experienced, uh, miscarriages.

   4. PCDr. Priscilla Chan1:20

      Yeah.

   5. MMMarina Mogilko1:21

      And I was going through the same process.

   6. PCDr. Priscilla Chan1:22

      Oh.

   7. MMMarina Mogilko1:23

      But for me, it started in 2015, and we only were able to have a baby in 2019.

   8. PCDr. Priscilla Chan1:28

      Oh, God bless.

   9. MMMarina Mogilko1:28

      And I think you were the first public couple to share something like this on social media-

   10. PCDr. Priscilla Chan1:34

       Mm

   11. MMMarina Mogilko1:34

       ... and that kept me through the process. So thank you so much.

   12. PCDr. Priscilla Chan1:36

       Oh, you're gonna make me start off by crying. [laughing]

   13. MMMarina Mogilko1:39

       [laughing] I, I, I just really wanted to share this, and I am so grateful that you started talking about this problem, because when you're going through it, it feels like you're just alone in it. Now, with social media, people are sharing more and more-

   14. PCDr. Priscilla Chan1:51

       Yeah

   15. MMMarina Mogilko1:51

       ... but when you're in it, and when the doctors tell you, "Oh, it was your fault," or whatever, 'cause some doctors told me that-

   16. PCDr. Priscilla Chan1:56

       Ugh

   17. MMMarina Mogilko1:57

       ... um-

   18. PCDr. Priscilla Chan1:57

       It's the worst.

   19. MMMarina Mogilko1:58

       But thank you so much-

   20. PCDr. Priscilla Chan1:59

       Oh, I'm so glad

   21. MMMarina Mogilko2:00

       ... for being brave and sharing it.

   22. PCDr. Priscilla Chan2:01

       And now you have two kids.

   23. MMMarina Mogilko2:03

       And now I have two kids. Yeah.

   24. PCDr. Priscilla Chan2:04

       It's just, like, I, I... Yeah. I, I mean, I'm so glad that that all worked out, and I felt the same way. I was like, "I'm completely alone. I don't know anyone who has gone through this." Actually, Beyoncé, um, also had this problem, so you, me, and Beyoncé are in the same group.

   25. MMMarina Mogilko2:20

       Okay. I feel like 20% of all women experience some kind of variation of this problem.

   26. PCDr. Priscilla Chan2:25

       It's very common.

   27. MMMarina Mogilko2:26

       So, um-

   28. PCDr. Priscilla Chan2:26

       It's just it's not talked about that much.

   29. MMMarina Mogilko2:28

       But I think the, it's- the exciting part is, like, one way or another, people will have their families.

   30. PCDr. Priscilla Chan2:33

       Yeah.
3. 2:35 – 3:24

   Why Priscilla and Mark decided to start the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative

   1. MMMarina Mogilko2:35

      thank you for that. And so when you had Maxine, you decided to commit 99% of your wealth into CZI-

   2. PCDr. Priscilla Chan2:41

      Mm-hmm

   3. MMMarina Mogilko2:41

      ... this initiative.

   4. PCDr. Priscilla Chan2:43

      Yeah, so when we had Max, you've probably experienced this, too, everything sort of becomes very real. Like, the future is not some abstract time in the f- in the distant future. You're like, "I have this baby. She's coming now. Like, what are we gonna do to actually, like, prepare for her?" And, you know, we did the normal nesting stuff, too, but what we really wanted was to do our part in building a future where she could be healthy and thrive, and that's why we started the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, to figure out, like, what could we bring to the table? What could we do to build a future where kids, um, are part of a world that's even better than what we have today?

4. 3:24 – 4:40

   The mission of SZI

   1. MMMarina Mogilko3:24

      And what's your mission with CZI?

   2. PCDr. Priscilla Chan3:26

      Our mission with CZI, and now Biohub, is to cure, cure or prevent all disease. Um, and we used to say by the end of the century, but through a bunch of work that we've done, and, uh, these AI coming online with large language models, we've been able to see a pathway to this becoming a reality much sooner than the end of the century. I would say, like, in the n- coming decades. It really comes down to whether or not we can make every scientist faster and more efficient, and to take more risks. Like, that's so important. Um, and no one organization, not our organization, not any other organization, is going to do it alone. And our strategy is, how do we build tools to make every single scientist better, and to be able to test their riskiest, bravest ideas? And that's how we're gonna be able to move this forward in a pace that hopefully will blow all of our minds. And what we're doing at the Biohub is we wanna combine, uh, frontier science with fr- frontier AI work to really bring together, uh, a world where we are able to push forward science to have direct impact on people's lives much, much sooner.

5. 4:40 – 6:56

   10 years ago VS now. How do people react

   1. MMMarina Mogilko4:40

      This mission sounds amazing, but also so brave, right? We're gonna cure all diseases. So when you stated this 10 years ago versus now, like, how has people's reaction changed when LLMs came around?

   2. PCDr. Priscilla Chan4:53

      It's such a, a great question, because 10 years ago, people looked at us like, "You're nuts. How do you even do that?" And it was exactly that reaction that we said, "Okay, tell us why we are wrong. Tell us why that won't happen." And that really forced people to pause, and instead of just a knee-jerk reaction, think through, like, "Why is that not possible?" And that really prompted people to say, "Well, we need better tools. We need better dataset. We need new techniques in the lab. We need to have different types of people come in to solve this problem together." And then we said, "Okay, if that's the problem, then let's go do it." And so, uh, we started building tools for scientists. We built the Biohubs, where we bring together scientists, engineers, biologists, uh, physicists, all different backgrounds, to solve a common problem together, and we went from one Biohub to four in the past 10 years. And all that, we were making steady progress, and, um, we also built one of the largest datasets around single-cell biology. But again, we built that not knowing where it was gonna go.... and then two years ago, we both had this data set, cell by gene, coming together, and then people were like, "You know, like, what about large language models?" And I was like, "I don't know what that is. Like, let me look that up."

   3. MMMarina Mogilko6:15

      Mm.

   4. PCDr. Priscilla Chan6:15

      I am a physician by training, not, uh, a engineer or a machine learning expert, and so I looked it up. I was like, "Wait a minute, this is actually perfect." I see the pathway to taking the incredible amount of data that can come out of biology labs and actually extract meaningful knowledge, and that was, you know, maybe two years ago. Now, today, you say it, and some people are still skeptical, but a, a lot of people look at it and say, "Okay, I can see how you can get there," um, and that has been a complete, um, step change for us and incredibly exciting. I get so much energy, uh, doing

6. 6:56 – 9:18

   Priscilla’s personal story: why she turned from medicine to biology and investing in science

   1. PCDr. Priscilla Chan6:56

      this work.

   2. MMMarina Mogilko6:56

      Do you remember the moment when you were like, "Okay, this is when I need to start doing this. This is when I need to start investing in biology"? Was there some personal story behind that?

   3. PCDr. Priscilla Chan7:06

      Well, um, I trained as a pediatrician at UCSF, uh, and UCSF is, you know, a very fancy academic medical-

   4. MMMarina Mogilko7:14

      Delivered both babies there-

   5. PCDr. Priscilla Chan7:15

      Oh!

   6. MMMarina Mogilko7:16

      ... because they're pro natural birth.

   7. PCDr. Priscilla Chan7:17

      Wow.

   8. MMMarina Mogilko7:17

      I was researching, so I drove from Los Altos Hills to UCSF-

   9. PCDr. Priscilla Chan7:21

      Incredible

   10. MMMarina Mogilko7:22

       ... during contractions, but it was the best decision.

   11. PCDr. Priscilla Chan7:23

       You probably delivered at the fancy, beautiful, new hospital, too.

   12. MMMarina Mogilko7:26

       Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   13. PCDr. Priscilla Chan7:27

       Um, I'm so glad.

   14. MMMarina Mogilko7:28

       It's the best.

   15. PCDr. Priscilla Chan7:29

       So that's where I trained, and, you know, hopefully you had a very uncomplicated experience there, but for a lot of people who bring their kids there, it is because no one else has been able to give them an answer, or they need a subspecialty that doesn't really exist anywhere else. And as a pediatrician, those were the kids I was taking care of most of the time, and it was honestly scary and really shook my understanding of medicine. Going into medical school and residency, I was like, "If I do a good job, and I sort of learn what's being taught, I'm gonna be able to help people," and what I learned in the clinic and on the wards is a lot of these kids have things that we don't know the names of, and we don't know how to treat. We barely can describe it. The hope that their parents held on to was, was the little research that existed on their kid's issue, and I looked at it, and I looked at... Th- they would hand me these PDFs, and I would look at the PDF, and it'd be like, "How do I translate that to medicine or treatment or what I need to do for this kid?" It was so limited.

   16. MMMarina Mogilko8:36

       Yeah.

   17. PCDr. Priscilla Chan8:37

       And that's when I realized that being able to move basic science forward, that's where hope comes from for these kids.

   18. MMMarina Mogilko8:44

       Yeah.

   19. PCDr. Priscilla Chan8:44

       And so, you know, just pulling on that thread led me to really think about: How can we make an impact in biology?

   20. MMMarina Mogilko8:51

       [swoosh] Quick pause here. If you're enjoying this podcast, you will absolutely love my inner circle newsletter. My newsletter is basically behind-the-scenes from the heart of Silicon Valley. I'm building a language company, a personal brand, a family, all while navigating tech and creativity, so every week, I share real wins, real falls, quick, actionable tips to level up your business and life. Let's build and grow together. The link is in the description. Join my free newsletter to stay ahead. [swoosh]

7. 9:18 – 10:38

   Why CZI focuses on building tools for all scientists instead of tackling a single disease

   1. MMMarina Mogilko9:18

      And with this, you're not focusing on any particular diseases, right? You're just trying to map our cells and all of that, or is there some focus?

   2. PCDr. Priscilla Chan9:26

      There really isn't, and the way to think about it is we wanna make all scientists better at doing their job and more effective. And we have built, you know, annotation tools. We have built, uh, technical wet lab tools to help scientists do their work, and, um, the cell by gene work, where we- is what we did when we mapped out individual cells and w- how they were each, uh, different across a human body. You know, you have... The same DNA, uh, creates your skin cell, that creates your heart cell, your liver. It's the same DNA. How does it actually lead to such different outcomes, and what happens when the DNA has a mutation or something goes wrong? How do we understand what happens inside your cell? And the really cool thing there is if we can understand how it works when it's healthy and what happens when there's an error or something happens, um, from the outside, what is actually the impact? W- how does the cell look differently? Because if you understand it at that level, then you can design very specific treatments to actually correct the issue. And so

8. 10:38 – 11:17

   Why they’re building virtual cells

   1. PCDr. Priscilla Chan10:38

      we don't work disease by disease, but we want us- want to work in a world where we can experiment quickly, efficiently on human, uh, knowledge. Right now, a lot of the models are, like, you know, you can study in flies or mice-

   2. MMMarina Mogilko10:53

      Mm

   3. PCDr. Priscilla Chan10:53

      ... or rats, but that doesn't always translate to humans. And so we think if we could build a virtual cell model that allows us to do a lot of this experimentation on a human model but on a computer, then it's cheaper, it's faster for scientists to do the research, and it applies more directly to the clinic and has more direct impact on people's lives.

9. 11:17 – 11:52

   What exactly is a virtual cell?

   1. PCDr. Priscilla Chan11:17

      [swoosh]

   2. MMMarina Mogilko11:17

      Before our interview with Priscilla, I got to meet some incredible scientists who are mapping what's happening inside our cell. They're working on something called virtual cells, computer simulations that replicate how real biological cells behave and function. Once we have fully working virtual cells, it will completely change medicine, biology, and even how we understand life because we'll be able to understand disease before it happens. Drug discovery will be hundreds of times faster. We'll get personalized health because we'll be able to have our digital twins, and biology will basically become programmable. Virtual cells will change everything. So how far do you think

10. 11:52 – 12:23

    How close are we to creating a full, natural virtual cell?

    1. MMMarina Mogilko11:52

       we are from an actual virtual cell?

    2. PCDr. Priscilla Chan11:54

       Oh, it really [chuckles] depends on who you ask. Um, if you ask the AI folks, they're like, "You know-... three years, two years, and they're impatient. If you sort of ask folks with a biology background, there's so many different dimensions, and, you know, we're looking a little further out. But, you know, I would say the way we think about science is going to be fundamentally different in terms of, uh, our ability to model the human cell in, like, five years.

    3. MMMarina Mogilko12:22

       What would it mean

11. 12:23 – 13:40

    What this means for patients — how healthcare could change in the next five years

    1. MMMarina Mogilko12:23

       for me as a patient? What will change in five years?

    2. PCDr. Priscilla Chan12:26

       In five years, I think scientists will have an incredible tool. Obviously, like, that's great, but the thing we actually all care about is i- the impact on people's lives.

    3. MMMarina Mogilko12:37

       Mm.

    4. PCDr. Priscilla Chan12:37

       This is the part I'm so excited about. We need to understand individuals' biology. Right now, we get to have this, like, "On average, this is what a skin cell does. On average, this is how your brain cell behaves," but none of us are average, and each of us has unique biology. But the research won't tell me how my brain would react to a certain medication than your brain would, but we have very distinct biology. The thing I want is for us to be able to do medicine, um, where it's also on the frontier. We can understand based on your genetics, this is how your brain reacts to certain conditions, how it responds to different medications, and because we all have variants within our DNA. That is the part I'm so excited about because right now, we either don't understand, or we give you a treatment that's our b- that's our best guess.

    5. MMMarina Mogilko13:35

       Yeah.

    6. PCDr. Priscilla Chan13:35

       And it causes a lot of suffering, and, you know, what kind of diseases

12. 13:40 – 14:38

    Which common diseases could be cured with the help of virtual cells

    1. PCDr. Priscilla Chan13:40

       are this? People often think, "Okay, we're talking about rare diseases that we don't have treatments for," and it's true. Rare diseases are a really good match for this type of work, but in reality, common diseases are rare diseases. I think things like hypertension and depression, they're these big categories, but actually, they sh- it should fall, break down into different sub-diseases because, you know, so one person reacts very differently to a blood pressure medication than another. Uh, one person's, uh, depression reacts very differently to s- one type, class of antidepressants than others, and if we understood each one of our biology, we would either be able to choose the most effective medication right away or design it, and that's the world I, I, I, I know we're gonna m- uh, be able to live in once we can understand the biology at a more granular lev- level as well.

    2. MMMarina Mogilko14:37

       And once

13. 14:38 – 16:11

    The first diseases likely to be cured with AI-driven biology

    1. MMMarina Mogilko14:38

       we do that, what will be the first diseases that you think are gonna be cured?

    2. PCDr. Priscilla Chan14:42

       Oh, this is such an interesting question, and honestly, I don't really have a, a, a... Like I said, we allow scientists from the outside to take it and solve problems. But I will say, I think the immune system is fascinating because the immune system is built in. It's, like, in your DNA. It's in your biology. It keeps you healthy. It's critical, and when it's overactive, it also makes you sick. So there's, like, a very fine balance in the immune system, that if we understood how that balance gets out of whack in either direction, we could help a lot of people with autoimmune disease. That would be incredible. Another application is, right now, immune cells are already special cells. They get to go all over your body and solve problems. What if we just enhance that to, uh, allow us to engineer immune cells to say, like, "Go to your heart," and say, "Are there plaques in the arteries? Uh, tell us yes or no, and then go do something about it. Clean it up." Like, those cells already exist in your body, and we can- it's- it sounds like science fiction, but it's not.

    3. MMMarina Mogilko15:52

       It does, yeah. [chuckles]

    4. PCDr. Priscilla Chan15:53

       It does- it's not. Our New York, uh, Biohub is working on this very question, and so I think there's so much promise in enhancing the way the immune system, uh, works and understanding the different levers that optimize it in each one of us.

    5. MMMarina Mogilko16:10

       So basically,

14. 16:11 – 17:12

    Looking ten years ahead: what breakthroughs to expect

    1. MMMarina Mogilko16:11

       in 10 years, if everything goes well, the way we treat cold would be, "Let's extract my immune cell, reprogram it, put it back, and it treats cold." Is that what it's gonna look like?

    2. PCDr. Priscilla Chan16:19

       Oh, cold is interesting. I would say you probably don't wanna wait for your immune cell to be re- re-engineered for that, but, like, let's talk about, um, multiple sclerosis or neurodegeneration. Like, you want to understand exactly in which pathway you have upregulated interleukin 10 or whatever it is, and you wanna be able to dial it back down so that your immune system doesn't attack itself. That would be incredible, uh, and I think there's a lot more you can do, actually, in, um, uh, uh, helping address, like, actual infectious diseases, too. But I think the thing I want to really expand everyone's imagination on is that the immune system is not just good for infectious disease.

    3. MMMarina Mogilko17:07

       Mm-hmm.

    4. PCDr. Priscilla Chan17:07

       It's actually critical in keeping all of our organs healthy.

    5. MMMarina Mogilko17:11

       I was just

15. 17:12 – 19:50

    How mapping cells accelerated from 100 million to 1 billion — and why speed matters

    1. MMMarina Mogilko17:12

       talking to some of your scientists, and they told me you were able to map 0.1% of the cell to build this virtual model. Does this number get us somewhere, or we still need to map at least, like, 50% to understand what's going on?

    2. PCDr. Priscilla Chan17:25

       There's so much more work to do, um, but luckily, it just gets faster and faster.

    3. MMMarina Mogilko17:29

       Mm-hmm.

    4. PCDr. Priscilla Chan17:29

       It took us, um, 10 years to map, you know, around 100 million cells, but it's taken us months to map a billion cells. So the rate of the ability to map and understand, uh-... different dimensions of the cell has accelerated.

    5. MMMarina Mogilko17:46

       Is that because of AI or because you already have the data set?

    6. PCDr. Priscilla Chan17:49

       It's because the, the, actually the hardware tools has gotten a lot faster, but also clarity and of purpose, right? But the other thing that needs to happen is, that's just, when we talk about the human cell atlas data set, that's at the single-cell transcriptomics. We are looking at how your DNA is being transcri- transcribed to RNA in different cell types. But that's just one dimension. We need to be looking at where the proteins are, so that's why, you know, here at the Imaging Institute, we're looking at it in a cell map, and we can look at the layout and look at where the protein's being expressed. But, still, those cells are frozen and sliced, so then we need to look at it in a living cell, and we need to look at how the cell behaves in different contexts. There are just so many more angles of- that we haven't been able to probe and understand, so a lot more needs to happen. But the really exciting thing, uh, for us, is we pair our AI labs with our wet labs, and so w- that conversation between those two teams, they aren't siloed. The AI lab can say, "Okay, we've built this model. We have this blind spot, or we need to look at this next." The wet lab can say, "Oh, well, actually, we c- either we can do it or we know someone who can do it," and then they can also feed information around the metadata of what they're seeing in the lab-

    7. MMMarina Mogilko19:13

       Mm-hmm

    8. PCDr. Priscilla Chan19:13

       ... and share that with the AI researchers so they can build that more efficiently, and then vice versa. They can ... The folks in the wet lab can say, "I have this bottleneck. I can't efficiently look at the tomograms that c- are coming out of the Cryo-ET." Then they can say, "Oh, I can build you something to help with that."

    9. MMMarina Mogilko19:32

       Mm-hmm.

    10. PCDr. Priscilla Chan19:32

        And so it's that combination of, uh, frontier AI and frontier biology that we are hoping comes together in a flywheel to make this work so much faster.

    11. MMMarina Mogilko19:42

        It's fascinating. So even with, uh, like, cardio diseases, right? When you said clear plaques, that-

    12. PCDr. Priscilla Chan19:46

        Yeah

    13. MMMarina Mogilko19:47

        ... that's something the immune system could do.

    14. PCDr. Priscilla Chan19:48

        Totally.

    15. MMMarina Mogilko19:49

        And you're building a

16. 19:50 – 20:38

    What is the virtual immune system?

    1. MMMarina Mogilko19:50

       v- virtual immune system, right?

    2. PCDr. Priscilla Chan19:51

       Yes.

    3. MMMarina Mogilko19:52

       Can you talk about it? What does it mean?

    4. PCDr. Priscilla Chan19:54

       So, you know, I've been talking a little bit about the virtual cell, where we're gonna model a single cell and how it, uh, respond ch- is both healthy or sick, or how it responds to changes. The virtual immune system is a sort of a next level ab- uh, up, where the immune system has lots of cell types, and the cells communicate with each other, and, uh, they work together as a team. There's no one organ. The cells are just communicating with each other and sending signals, um, from faraway locations across your body. Understanding that communication and when the immune system turns on and off is actually really important, and the very cool thing is at our Biohub in Chicago,

17. 20:38 – 21:37

    The sensor that reads immune-cell communication — how the body “talks” to itself

    1. PCDr. Priscilla Chan20:39

       uh, Shana Kelly has actually designed a sensor, a really tiny sensor, kind of like, um, the continuous glucose monitor, if you've ever seen anyone wear one of those.

    2. MMMarina Mogilko20:47

       I wore-

    3. PCDr. Priscilla Chan20:48

       Oh, you've worn one?

    4. MMMarina Mogilko20:49

       Yeah, I was tracking my glucose to see how I react to certain foods.

    5. PCDr. Priscilla Chan20:52

       Okay. Very cool, right? And so, and you can just wear it-

    6. MMMarina Mogilko20:56

       Yeah

    7. PCDr. Priscilla Chan20:56

       ... and it gives you-

    8. MMMarina Mogilko20:57

       For a week, yeah

    9. PCDr. Priscilla Chan20:58

       ... ongoing information. She built a little sensor like that, that reads out the signals of your immune cells talking to each other in a living organism, which is incredible, because you want to know the d- uh, the dynamic system of how it works together. So she is building the technology that allows us to measure the communication between the immune system, and then we can take that data and model it in a virtual way, where then we can manipulate, uh, different, uh, parameters and actually understand all different diseases based on this virtual immune system. And, uh, that's an example of sort of how

18. 21:37 – 23:34

    2040 - what medicine could look like

    1. PCDr. Priscilla Chan21:37

       the wet lab empowers the, uh, AI modeling, and the AI modeling improves the wet lab, and, um, it's, it's incredible.

    2. MMMarina Mogilko21:46

       So it's something ... I'm trying to imagine 2040.

    3. PCDr. Priscilla Chan21:49

       Sure.

    4. MMMarina Mogilko21:49

       So I'm wearing, instead of a glucose monitor, I'm wearing this immune monitor, right? Or what do you-

    5. PCDr. Priscilla Chan21:54

       Yeah, so let's, let's-

    6. MMMarina Mogilko21:55

       And it tells me, like, something-

    7. PCDr. Priscilla Chan21:56

       Am I... Is it okay if I make something up?

    8. MMMarina Mogilko21:58

       Yeah.

    9. PCDr. Priscilla Chan21:58

       Okay.

    10. MMMarina Mogilko21:59

        Absolutely.

    11. PCDr. Priscilla Chan21:59

        We're, we're in make-believe now.

    12. MMMarina Mogilko22:00

        Yeah. Let's do it.

    13. PCDr. Priscilla Chan22:00

        But I think it's possible.

    14. MMMarina Mogilko22:01

        Yeah.

    15. PCDr. Priscilla Chan22:02

        Okay. So say we s- understand that, based on your genetics, you are at risk for lupus, okay? And it's an autoimmune disease. But we know that lupus gets triggered when a certain molecule increases, um, and it, when it c- gets out of balance. So we want to know exactly when that happens, not when you have a flare and your kidneys aren't working right, or your joints are hurting. We want to know, like, the first signal.

    16. MMMarina Mogilko22:33

        Yeah.

    17. PCDr. Priscilla Chan22:33

        So you could wear a patch that looks at that molecule and measures the concentration of it and tells us the moment that molecule starts increasing in a way that represents a disease flare.

    18. MMMarina Mogilko22:46

        That's amazing. I would want to wear it for every disease, right? Even for a cold. Like, "Oh, you're getting something. There's a bug."

    19. PCDr. Priscilla Chan22:51

        Yeah.

    20. MMMarina Mogilko22:52

        "Go home." [chuckles]

    21. PCDr. Priscilla Chan22:52

        [chuckles] So it, it's just like, i- imagine that. Like, that's how you keep someone healthy. You prevent them from going into flare in the first place.

    22. MMMarina Mogilko23:01

        That is the best.

    23. PCDr. Priscilla Chan23:02

        And then in the v- for in the virtual cell model, then you can say, "Okay, when this person has a flare, um, in lupus, we know that this protein is what is, uh, working in an inappropriate way." Then you could design a custom drug-

    24. MMMarina Mogilko23:20

        Yeah

    25. PCDr. Priscilla Chan23:20

        ... to help, uh, modify that so that the d- we don't have those disease effects. Anyways, this is my make-believe land. This is what I daydream about. Um, but I think it's very feasible based on our sciences.

19. 23:34 – 23:58

    What keeps Priscilla up at night

    1. MMMarina Mogilko23:34

       Well, so you said, uh, the things that you're fascinated about. What keeps you up at night with all this?

    2. PCDr. Priscilla Chan23:40

       I think it is so important to work quickly. I'm not a scientist myself, right? I'm a pediatrician, so i- my job is to understand the barriers to the work-... and help eliminate the barriers so that we can work efficiently and effectively. Um, and that's, that's my whole job.

    3. MMMarina Mogilko23:57

       And for everyone

20. 23:58 – 24:29

    Her advice for future scientists and doctors

    1. MMMarina Mogilko23:58

       who's watching who's a future scientist or wants to be a doctor, what would be your advice?

    2. PCDr. Priscilla Chan24:03

       This is probably the most exciting time to go into this work, and so, um, do it.

    3. MMMarina Mogilko24:09

       How do you see it- 'cause we go to all the LLMs to ask for health advice, right?

    4. PCDr. Priscilla Chan24:15

       Yeah. [chuckles]

    5. MMMarina Mogilko24:15

       How do you see this change the way people study now? Maybe, 'cause maybe you would say they need to go deeper into science, 'cause this is where all the progress happens, versus just general practice.

    6. PCDr. Priscilla Chan24:27

       So we're gonna need people

21. 24:29 – 26:00

    The new role of physicians working alongside AI

    1. PCDr. Priscilla Chan24:29

       in, on the biology side to continue deepening our knowledge of the biology. And the interesting thing is, biologists aren't physicians, and they're also not always patients. Um, and so a physician who has experience taking care of patients, deep in the science, that's actually magic, because they understand what the patient faces, and they help the biologists ask the right questions. Like, that's actually very powerful and very cool.

    2. MMMarina Mogilko25:01

       That's the job of the future, right? Something that's gonna be in great demand.

    3. PCDr. Priscilla Chan25:05

       Totally. But then on the other opposite, the, on the other end of the... Not opposite, I don't wanna s- paint it like these things are in tension. There's also a different need, because right now, for instance, looking at skin moles, like skin checks or retinal issues, AI is really good at it. Like, and if you look at the head-to-head, it, it is an improvement with than just the physician reviewing these things on their own. And so what is the role of the physician? I think the role of the physician is making sure that we are asking the right questions of AI.

    4. MMMarina Mogilko25:38

       Mm.

    5. PCDr. Priscilla Chan25:38

       Like, looking at the sk- like, this person's at risk, we should look at the skin. I also think it goes back to the original calling and purpose of a physician, which is a healer, and you are- you walk alongside patients going through all different chapters of their life, and, um, that's always going to be a need.

    6. MMMarina Mogilko25:58

       Was there a moment

22. 26:00 – 27:56

    When Priscilla’s mission becomes deeply personal

    1. MMMarina Mogilko26:00

       when discovery felt deeply personal for you in the past 10 years?

    2. PCDr. Priscilla Chan26:04

       Oh, well, you know, the pregnancy stuff is always interesting. We actually did a, a study on the single cell expression of the female reproductive organs. Like, that's... 'Cause we actually don't understand-- Do you know we don't understand how labor is triggered?

    3. MMMarina Mogilko26:21

       Oh, we don't?

    4. PCDr. Priscilla Chan26:22

       We don't. It's magic. [chuckles]

    5. MMMarina Mogilko26:24

       Okay.

    6. PCDr. Priscilla Chan26:24

       And so we-

    7. MMMarina Mogilko26:25

       I thought it was, like, hormones, but we don't know when it starts, right? Like, when the hormones start.

    8. PCDr. Priscilla Chan26:29

       We don't know how the whole cascade gets triggered.

    9. MMMarina Mogilko26:32

       Oh, wow.

    10. PCDr. Priscilla Chan26:33

        Um, and so we actually did a whole project around that. Um, but we also have a portfolio called Rare As One, where we bring rare disease groups, um, together and give them the training and resources to engage in the research process. Those groups are incredible. They are patients or families of patients that are full of hope, um, but also realistic, that, you know, they can be part of making the science better, but it might not impact their trajectory. Like, those groups are what fuel... Their belief in science and belief in the future fuel me.

    11. MMMarina Mogilko27:17

        Yeah.

    12. PCDr. Priscilla Chan27:17

        And sometimes I don't know who's a part of these groups, and one day I got a text message from a friend of my sister, who said, "Say thanks to your sister and my mom." My sister was like, "Why?" And it was because research that her rare disease group did that allowed her to get a diagnosis for something that she had been experiencing.

    13. MMMarina Mogilko27:41

        Wow!

    14. PCDr. Priscilla Chan27:42

        Not even a cure, not preventing her disease, just naming it so she didn't feel so alone-

    15. MMMarina Mogilko27:48

        Mm

    16. PCDr. Priscilla Chan27:48

        ... and so powerless. Like, that is something that, like, motivates me.

    17. MMMarina Mogilko27:54

        This is fascinating. Well, do you think

23. 27:56 – 29:31

    Which diseases she believes will be cured in our lifetime

    1. MMMarina Mogilko27:56

       there are any diseases that we'll be able to cure with this technology in our lifetime? Or what is the most probable disease to be cured?

    2. PCDr. Priscilla Chan28:03

       I actually think many diseases will be cured within our lifetime. Um, because, you know, I trained at UCSF from 2012 to 2015, and diseases that were incurable death sentences have very reasonable and effective treatments now. And, you know, 2015 was 10 years ago. Like, that is a huge difference. And baby KJ, at, at CHOP, baby KJ was born with a mutation that would've made it very, very difficult to grow up to have a normal, healthy life. But because we understood the mutation, and we were able to correct it, he's probably gonna live a healthy life. Like, that sounds like, also sounds like science fiction.

    3. MMMarina Mogilko28:50

       And it's not just him, right? It's also future babies who might be born.

    4. PCDr. Priscilla Chan28:54

       Exactly. And so I think pl- like, the things that are sort of super ripe right now are the ones where we have a very clear understanding of the molecular and genetic basis of why it happens. So I can see the pathway for all those diseases. So we gotta get more diseases to that level of understanding. What is the genetic underpinning? What is the molecular underpinning? And we need better models, and we need scientists to be able to do more risky, bold projects to solve those questions.

    5. MMMarina Mogilko29:26

       That is fascinating that you are doing this work with, with the resources. And

24. 29:31 – 29:46

    When Priscilla will feel her mission is fulfilled

    1. MMMarina Mogilko29:31

       are you waiting for something to happen where you'd say, "My mission is fulfilled?"

    2. PCDr. Priscilla Chan29:36

       I don't have an idea of what that might be like. Um, I think that there's always more interesting work to do.

    3. MMMarina Mogilko29:44

       So you're always, always pushing.

25. 29:46 – 30:33

    Balancing work and raising kids

    1. MMMarina Mogilko29:46

       My last question is for every mum who's watching-

    2. PCDr. Priscilla Chan29:48

       Okay

    3. MMMarina Mogilko29:48

       ... also wants to build something, but, you know, kids take a lot of time. What would be your advice? How do you balance this?

    4. PCDr. Priscilla Chan29:55

       I am extremely disciplined about my schedule, and so I have, uh, time that is s- dedicated to the children, and I have time that's dedicated to work. I don't mix those things, and that's it. And that's okay with me. I, you know, the more fun, social stuff, that will come later when the kids have left the house.

    5. MMMarina Mogilko30:19

       Love it.

    6. PCDr. Priscilla Chan30:20

       Yeah.

    7. MMMarina Mogilko30:20

       Thank you so much, and thank you for the work that you're doing. You're definitely changing the world, and hopefully AI is just gonna speed it up, uh, totally, and we'll g- we'll get some great results in five years.

    8. PCDr. Priscilla Chan30:30

       Thanks for shining-

    9. MMMarina Mogilko30:31

       I hope

    10. PCDr. Priscilla Chan30:31

        ... a light on science.

    11. MMMarina Mogilko30:32

        Yeah. Thank you.

Episode duration: 30:33