Silicon Valley GirlMarie Forleo: Progress Way Faster than 99% of people
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
45 min read · 8,964 words- 0:00 – 0:42
Intro
- MFMarie Forleo
You're tens of thousands of dollars in debt, and this thing sounds so stupid and cheesy, you're embarrassed to even say it out loud.
- MMMarina Mogilko
If you're in the- in your career for 10, 15 years, magical things start to happen.
- MFMarie Forleo
I wanna just burn it all down! You are either gonna endure something or you're gonna enjoy it, right? Who do you think you are? And I sat on the church steps, and I cried so hard because I hated my job so much, and I felt like I was gonna bring shame on my family if I quit.
- MMMarina Mogilko
How do you keep this focus? How do you know you're doing the right thing, and not start switching?
- MFMarie Forleo
Is there revenue tied to it? Is there profit tied to it, or are you operating from fear?
- MMMarina Mogilko
Marie, welcome to Silicon Valley
- 0:42 – 3:16
A better way to make big decisions
- MMMarina Mogilko
Girls. I wanna start with a question that you actually wrote a post on LinkedIn, uh, about making 2025 the best year of your life and the principles. How has it been going with the principles? How has t- 2025 been?
- MFMarie Forleo
I mean, so far, it is such a year of transformation for me, and this year's been going amazing 'cause it feels like I'm entering this new phase of a lot more ease, a lot more play, and I've always been a really playful person. Um, and just kind of unexpected ways that I'm showing up for me that feel really good. So, so far, so good. [laughing]
- MMMarina Mogilko
Can you share some of the principles that are working for you right now?
- MFMarie Forleo
So I think in terms of a principle, it's, like, really honoring what my nervous system is a big yes to, versus what is a big no. You know, I kind of built my career, and it was amazing, from being in this place of saying, "You know, I have this goal. I'm gonna set this goal, and I'm gonna do whatever it takes to achieve it," and that's amazing. That's beautiful. But after having followed that for so long, I started reaching a point where I was like, "It doesn't feel good anymore," you know? And the very things that have brought me joy, or sitting at my computer all day long, or, or operating a particular way, I was like, "Ugh!" Like, it feels draining and almost like hitting a point of burnout. And now it's just a, a principle of really tuning in and slowing down a little bit and asking myself: Does this idea, whether it's for a product or a service or an offering or hiring someone, or even in my personal life, how does this make my nervous system feel? And if I start feeling a sense of either dread or tightening or like, ugh, this sounds awful, I'm just such a no. And it feels like, in many ways, for me, my ego is taking a backseat, and ego's great. You know, ego can be a real service to getting us to do things in the world and take a stand for ourselves and believe in ourselves to create something. But I think i- you might reach a certain point where it feels like it's driving you rather than your true self driving the car.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Do you think this principle can be applied to someone who is just starting out their career? 'Cause when you're starting, you're like-
- MFMarie Forleo
Yeah, absolutely
- MMMarina Mogilko
... you have to work.
- MFMarie Forleo
I think that's a really wise question, and I don't know the answer. I think that you have to almost trust what that driving force is inside of you, and I think, you know, when I first started my business, honestly, I was rooted in a lot of excitement and passion for making a difference to other people. And in quite honestly, there was, like, a lot of fear and failure that was underneath it. You know, I had started my career on Wall Street, on the New York Stock Exchange, and I was super excited to find some way to make, like, a really good living and to make a difference to other people, but I just kept failing at that. I was not good at working
- 3:16 – 4:01
How to know you’re on the wrong path
- MFMarie Forleo
for others, and I remember being on the floor of the exchange, and I felt so blessed to be there. You know, I don't come from a lot of money. I was the first in my family to go to college, and so I was grateful to have, like, a steady paycheck and to be able to show up at this iconic center of finance and business in the whole world. Um, but I remember [chuckles] showing up every single day, and this little voice inside of me, Marina, kept saying, "Marie, this isn't who you are. This isn't what you're supposed to do. This isn't who you're supposed to be," and I was like, "Shh, I don't wanna hear it." [laughing] You know, like, I need this paycheck. I need the health benefits. Like, I don't have a plan B. But I kept ignoring that voice, ignoring that voice, until one day, I remember showing up on the floor, and I said to my boss, who was, like, a trader, I said: Hey, you know, I'm gonna go out and grab some coffee. Is that cool? And he was like, "Absolutely."
- 4:01 – 5:45
The most important career advice you’ll hear
- MFMarie Forleo
And I didn't leave to grab coffee. I actually made a beeline towards the nearest church, which was Trinity Church. So I was raised Catholic. I'd just gone to a Catholic university, so I was kind of trained to look up when you're having a hard time. And I sat on the church steps, and I cried so hard because I hated my job so much, and I felt like I was gonna bring shame on my family if I quit. 'Cause a- again, what the hell am I gonna do? Go back to bartending and waiting tables? And so I did, uh, the one thing that I was told to do at that moment, which was call your father, and I took out my flip phone, which tells you that it is 1998. And so I'm doing the ugly cry with my dad on the phone, and I was like: I'm so sorry. Like, you and Mom worked so hard to put me through college, and I just wanna quit, and I'm trying so hard, and I don't know what to do. And like, in between all my ugly cries, my dad interrupted me. He was like, "Marie, you've been working since you were nine years old. You've been babysitting. I'm not worried about you keeping a roof over your head, but here's the secret to life. You have to find something that you love to do because you're gonna be working for the next 40, 50 years, and once you find something you love, it's not gonna feel this way." He's like, "I don't know how to tell you that, but if you need to leave this job because it's making you this sick that you're running out and crying on the church steps in the middle of the workday, you gotta go."
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- MFMarie Forleo
And so that was my permission slip, but, you know, all I knew at that point in time was that I felt like I had some kind of gifts to make a difference in the world, and I wanted to create financial freedom for myself, and I didn't, I didn't know how to do either one of those things. And so I really went through my mind, and it was like, okay, I'm highly creative. I thought I was gonna be an animator for Disney or a fashion designer, but my dad was also a small-business owner, so I loved small business, and so those were the only two things I knew. And I was like, what's the combination of creativity and business?
- MMMarina Mogilko
Speaking
- 5:45 – 7:26
The tool every creator should know
- MMMarina Mogilko
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- 7:26 – 9:50
When is it time to change your career?
- MFMarie Forleo
I was like, "What's the combination of creativity and business?" I was like, "I know, women's magazines." And so I got a job, um, at Condé Nast Publishing, and it was, like, an assistant job at Gourmet Magazine, right? So I'm Italian American. I love to eat. It was in the ad sales department, and I was, like, right next to the test kitchen. So all these editors would bring me snacks all day. I was like, "Oh, my goodness, this is amazing!" Not to mention at that time, you know, when I was on Wall Street, it was, like, 99.9% men, and that was fine, but it was a very unbalanced, unintegrated environment.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- MFMarie Forleo
And so I was constantly, like, being hit on, and I couldn't be taken seriously. I'm like, "This sucks." So at the magazine, I was like, my boss was this powerful woman. My publisher was this pow- I was like, "Oh, my God, this feels like a much more kind of supportive, integrated, dynamic environment. This is gonna be great." But, like, six months into that job, Marina, those voices came back again. It was like, "Marie, this isn't who you are. This isn't what you're supposed to do. This isn't what you're meant to be." And I was just like, "What is going on?"
- MMMarina Mogilko
Can I pause you here for a sec?
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes!
- MMMarina Mogilko
'Cause I get these voices even when I'm doing my most favorite thing in the world.
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes.
- MMMarina Mogilko
And I realize sometimes, or, like, oftentimes, you love 80% of it-
- MFMarie Forleo
Yeah
- MMMarina Mogilko
... but there are, like, 20 to 30% that you don't like-
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes
- MMMarina Mogilko
... and you just have to get through.
- MFMarie Forleo
Sure.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Is that what you still think, or you s- you think it's gonna be 100%?
- MFMarie Forleo
No. No, no, no, no. I think in every area of life, every area of business, there are gonna be portions that are not your favorite, and so I think it's about proportion, and it's about honestly listening. Like, for example, um, parts of that job, being an ad assistant, like, you know, helping my boss put together presentations and learning about sales elements, like, there were certain pieces of it that were really fun. But for me, I would say at least 80 to 90% of it, I'm like, "This sucks." Like, I don't wanna climb this corporate ladder. I didn't aspire to be the publisher of a magazine. So it really helped me get honest with me that, like, this still wasn't it.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Mm, so you look at the endst- in the end goal-
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes
- MMMarina Mogilko
... Do I like it, or do I-
- MFMarie Forleo
Exactly.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Right.
- MFMarie Forleo
And honestly, like, I was also looking from a financial perspective 'cause I was like, "How much does she ma- " You know, like, all of the elements.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- MFMarie Forleo
And I was like, "Well, what am I doing here if I'm not having joy every single day, and I don't wanna climb this particular ladder? Like, that's not my rainbow." Does that make sense?
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah, well, I feel like a lot of people these days... Because you can change jobs.
- MFMarie Forleo
Sure.
- MMMarina Mogilko
These days, you can change so quickly.
- 9:50 – 12:15
The 80/20 rule for stress
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes.
- MMMarina Mogilko
I feel like a lot of people make this mistake of like, "I don't like what I'm doing, so I have to change my niche completely and, like, go from being a financial expert to, like, creator in fashion.
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes.
- MMMarina Mogilko
For example, like, try to, uh, to, like-
- MFMarie Forleo
Yeah, go from, like, basket weaving to AI-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah
- MFMarie Forleo
... or who knows?
- MMMarina Mogilko
Do you- when do you think it's the right decision, and when do you think people should think about just tweaking the processes?
- MFMarie Forleo
Yeah.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Like, maybe delegating something, getting rid of something, but staying in their niche.
- MFMarie Forleo
Yeah, absolutely. So if we're looking at this through a business context, and you are running your own business, right?
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- MFMarie Forleo
If that's what we're looking at through that lens.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Three businesses. [chuckles]
- MFMarie Forleo
With three businesses, I think it's really important to identify what your genius zone is. You know, we all know the 80 20 rule, right, where 80% of our results are gonna come from 20% of our inputs. And then the inverse, which I think is oftentimes more interesting and overlooked, is also true. So 80% of our stress comes from 20% of our inputs. So if you kind of look at and analyze objectively in your business or three businesses, whatever you've chosen, and you start to really get honest between you and you of like, where are the big drains on your psychic energy, your emotional energy, where you're just like-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Mm
- MFMarie Forleo
... "Oh, my God, stick a fork in me. Like, I cannot do this," you'll know where those things are that you... If you're in the beginning stages and you cannot afford to delegate it, well, now we have AI and AI-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- MFMarie Forleo
You know, there's a lot of new tools that have never been available before. Or if you need to hire, delegate it out, find a partner. Like, there's many different ways to get those things off your plate. I think that realistically, for most of us... You know, when I started my business, I was a solo person for probably, like, five or six years. That was my choice, and so I wore all the hats, and I was not good at all of them. But once you start getting traction and you start getting revenue in the door and a little bit of profit, if you wanna get to that next level, you do have to continue to peel away the things that drain you. Because your genius zone is where you're gonna not only find the most joy, the most energy, but it's probably gonna create the most value in the marketplace, and it's gonna give you something that, for me, has been very, very important, which is longevity-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah
- MFMarie Forleo
... and sustainability.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah, this is what I noticed.
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Uh, because if you're in the- in your career for 10, 15 years, magical things start to happen.
- MFMarie Forleo
That's right.
- MMMarina Mogilko
If you're a good person, if you're hardworking, if you appreciate your art-
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes
- MMMarina Mogilko
... and I see it in the US-
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes
- MMMarina Mogilko
... and it's, like, such a game-changer for me and for a lot of immigrants.
- 12:15 – 14:25
“Bring the party”: reframing boring tasks
- MMMarina Mogilko
Magic's gonna happen.
- MFMarie Forleo
And that's what happens if you actually really, really, really genuinely love the thing that you're doing, and you can, again, carve through that 60, 70, 80% is, like, joy, joy zone, and then maybe there's the 20% that feels a little bit laborious or it's tedious. And then there's a tool that I like to share called bring the party. So this is something that I learned from my folks, who are amazing. When we were young, and my dad would have these clients who wanted, like, a rush job, and it was all in printing. So again, back in the day, we're talking, like, the '80s now, and rather than being away from my dad for the weekend because he had to go handle all this work for the clients, what my parents chose to do was bring my brother and myself to the shop, and they would bring a boom box, they would get pizzas, and we would literally help my dad complete a rush job, but we would turn it into a party.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Nice.
- MFMarie Forleo
So he would give us little jobs that were legit jobs. Like, it wasn't just busy work, and so we felt very engaged in the process. Now, would we want to be working over the weekend? Not necessarily, but this tool of bringing the party is like, you are either gonna endure something or you're gonna enjoy it, right? If you endure something that you have to do, like your taxes, like writing a pitch, any aspect of your business that absolutely must get done, and at this stage in the game, you don't have anyone else, or you don't have an AI agent or any support to do it, what are you gonna do? Are you gonna cry in your cereal and then drain all your energy and then not have anything else to give to your relationships or your health? Or you can bring the party and enjoy it.
- MMMarina Mogilko
How do you bring party to taxes? [chuckles]
- MFMarie Forleo
So you can bring the party to taxes. Like, if you have any great music, right, that you want, and you're like: All right, I'm gonna play my best tunes, and I'm gonna give myself 10 minutes to just start my taxes. Like, I may not have to finish them, but I'm gonna have a little party while I do it. Because one of the ways around procrastination, especially for some type of task where you're just like, "Oh, my goodness, I wanna do anything else," I mean, you can bribe your friends to come over and do it with you. There's so many creative ways to bring a party to a task, but it's a really wise mental trick to not drain your energy, to get things done, and to really, on a more spiritual and soulful level, say, like, "This is my whole life." Like, if you have to do it, why not enjoy it?
- 14:25 – 17:31
Choosing joy vs. operating from fear
- MMMarina Mogilko
Can you walk me through the process of determining which task is worth bringing a party to-
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes
- MMMarina Mogilko
... and which task is worth just dropping and, like, saying goodbye to it completely?
- MFMarie Forleo
Oh, absolutely. You know, I think that's gonna be so hyper-specific to each person, but I do believe that as human beings in general, especially as entrepreneurs, one of the things we have to watch out for is we start a particular process, or we do something every single week, and then, especially as you're building a team, everyone gets used to doing the same thing the way that you've always done it. And whether it's once a quarter, once every six months, or at least once a year, to be able to step back and to ask yourself and your team: Do we need to keep doing this thing? Just because we did it before, and we've thought we've always had to do it, is it really still necessary to continue? I think that's really important for content creators like you and I. Do you... You know what I mean? Like-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah, you're like, "Maybe it's not bringing this joy. Like, should I continue?"
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes, and/or just because everyone else says you should do it. I'll give you a prime example for me. I remember when 2019 hit, right when my book was about to come out, um, one of my colleagues was like, "Marie, you gotta get on TikTok." And it was, like, super early days, and I just checked in. I was like: Nope, not for me. Like, I knew it wasn't for me, and everyone was screaming at me, "You're missing out. You're missing out." And so you have-
- MMMarina Mogilko
I remember Gary Vee was like-
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes
- MMMarina Mogilko
... "Get on TikTok." [chuckles]
- MFMarie Forleo
And you're like FOMO and all this stuff, and even now they're like, "But aren't you?" And I'm like, "No!" And I think it takes a lot of wisdom, and it takes a lot of self-trust. I know we're going a little off that original question, but for most entrepreneurs, if you try and be everywhere and do everything all at once, especially in the beginning, you're gonna wind up burning off and burning out really fast and quitting before you hit that magical seven-, 10-, 12-year mark, where everything starts to come together. So I'm a big fan and a big advocate of making business success sustainable 'cause we're living in a time where there's more information, there's more input, there's more data, there's more shiny objects, there's more everything than ever before, and I believe our brains and our bodies and our nervous systems are not quite dealt- They're, they're not set up to handle this.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Not adjusted yet-
- MFMarie Forleo
Right
- MMMarina Mogilko
... at all. [chuckles]
- MFMarie Forleo
So you have to have wisdom then when you go about your journey. And so going back to your original question about, well, how do we discern, you know, what to bring the party to or what to drop or to delegate out, I think really ask yourself, first of all, is this a critical business function? Like, is there revenue tied to it? Is there profit tied to it? Is there any kind of data that proves that you should absolutely keep this going, or are you operating from fear? Is this a fear-rooted thing like, "If I sh- stop showing up in a particular place, or if I stop offering this particular revenue stream, if I stop doing this, am I gonna lose relevance? Am I gonna lose mon-" You know, like, you're kind of operating from a fear-based-
- MMMarina Mogilko
I think it's always, always both, right, for a lot of entrepreneurs. Yeah, TikTok, I might have had two deals-
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes
- MMMarina Mogilko
... and it's kind of growing.
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes!
- MMMarina Mogilko
So there's-
- MFMarie Forleo
And for some people, there's joy there. Like, but for me, there wasn't. Does that make sense?
- MMMarina Mogilko
The joy would be the-
- MFMarie Forleo
Absolutely
- MMMarina Mogilko
... criteria for you.
- MFMarie Forleo
I cannot make myself do something I genuinely don't wanna do for very long.
- 17:31 – 20:26
Would you give up prestige to follow your calling?
- MMMarina Mogilko
When were you able to mentally allow yourself to do that? Did it come with a certain number in the bank?
- MFMarie Forleo
No. So that's why when we were back at, remember Gourmet Magazine, and I was telling the story-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah
- MFMarie Forleo
... and I kept hearing that voice, like, "This isn't you. This isn't what you're supposed to be," so I actually went to, picking up that story, the HR department, and I was like: Look, I don't think I'm meant to be on the ad sales side. I thought that my creativity was still being underdeveloped, and I was undernourished. So I said, "I'd love to be on the editorial side of the magazine. If any job position opens up, please let me know, even if it's a pay cut."... something did open up at Mademoiselle Magazine. I was like, "This is gonna be it." Like, I'm working with fashion designers, photography, photo shoots, so glamorous, so fun. Get that position, and it was fabulous and novel for, like, six months, and then those voices came back again. And I was like, "Marina..." At this point, I felt like I was broken. I was like, "All of my-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah, right? It keeps repeating.
- MFMarie Forleo
It keeps repeating.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Maybe it's just me.
- MFMarie Forleo
Maybe I have this cognitive des- deficit. I can't focus. Turns out I am ADHD. I didn't know that at that time. But, um, and it was around then that I stumbled upon an article online about a new profession at the time called coaching. Now, again, setting context, this is probably 1999, 2000, and it was all about this world of life coaching, which I will admit, as a Jersey girl, sounded really cheesy, stupid, but there was something in my heart that lit up like a Christmas tree, like nothing else before. So I had one voice in my head say, "Who do you think you are? No one's gonna hire a 23-year-old life coach. You haven't even lived life yet. You don't have what it takes to do this." Yet, I couldn't deny that my body was so on fire and so tingly, it was like the clouds parted, and little angels were like, "Ah!" Like, "This is what you're supposed to do." So cut to I signed up for a three-year life coach training program that happened at night while I worked at Mademoiselle during the day, and then about six months later, I get a call from the HR department at, um, Condé Nast. They had a promotion for me at Vogue. That was my fork in the road. You're either gonna go to Vogue, more money, more prestige, all the wonderful things-
- MMMarina Mogilko
All the doors open, right?
- MFMarie Forleo
... All the doors open, and people understand what you do, or you're gonna quit and start your own life coaching business at 23, which you have no idea how to start a business, you're tens of thousands of dollars in debt, and this thing sounds so stupid and cheesy, you're embarrassed to even say it out loud. Of course, I chose that one because it felt right, even though it did not make logical sense. I had failed-
- MMMarina Mogilko
You could've done Vogue-
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes
- MMMarina Mogilko
... got to meet all these people, and then start a coaching business with all the access that you had.
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes, but I didn't choose that. I chose the path of like, "I cannot work for someone else. I am not built to sit at a desk all day. I cannot do this any longer and keep failing. I will figure out, come hell or high water, how to build this weird-ass life coaching business that no one's ever heard of, that I am totally afraid of." So your question before was around, well, how
- 20:26 – 24:15
How to hear your inner voice
- MFMarie Forleo
does this... How do we develop this ability, or when did you start developing this ability to listen to joy and have that be kind of the barometer?
- MMMarina Mogilko
How do you even hear yourself?
- MFMarie Forleo
Well, that... Remember you were talking about that you have these voices inside, too?
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah, I have them-
- MFMarie Forleo
Everyone has them
- MMMarina Mogilko
... all the time, and sometimes the next day I wake up, and I'm like, "What was that voice yesterday? It was weird."
- MFMarie Forleo
It was weird.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Like, I'm glad I didn't listen to it.
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes, so this- you actually brought up a perfect point. One of the things that I've noticed over time is if that voice is consistent and keeps repeating, like, not just over a day, not just over a week, but it's probably, like, a few months, and for some of us it could be a year, you can trust that voice. But all of us, of course, have good days and bad days, where we're like, "I wanna just burn it all down!"
- MMMarina Mogilko
[chuckles] Exactly.
- MFMarie Forleo
And we're not gonna make emotional decisions-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah
- MFMarie Forleo
... and burn it all down, you know, in that context.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah. Yeah, this is... I, I feel for a lot of women.
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Like, every month you have those days- [chuckles]
- MFMarie Forleo
Oh, 100%.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Goodbye, everyone. [chuckles]
- MFMarie Forleo
Well, first of all, that's real. Like, one of the most realest things is the chemicals of hormones and how they impact every part of our experience of living, our decision making-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah
- MFMarie Forleo
... how we wanna burn it all down if we're crying our eyes out in the corner, and then the next day you wake up, you're like, "Dude, I'm fine!"
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- MFMarie Forleo
Completely fine. So it's wisdom to not act on that.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Is there anything that you do every single day or, like, every week to kinda develop this ear for your body? Is it meditation, or maybe you work only particular hours?
- MFMarie Forleo
Yeah, you know, that has evolved over the years, and I always like to pay attention to what I call... something I call my primary project. So the use of time, productivity, getting things done, that's always been a huge obsession of mine, and in the past five or six years, I've really honed in on some skills and some practices that are rooted in mind science and also just common sense that help me function at my best, especially as someone who has a very wild brain, an ADHD brain, which I don't think it's a limitation at all, and I've actually been told it's quite a gift, and many entrepreneurs have it. Um, so if my primary project... For example, like, when I was writing Everything is Figureoutable, and I was about to go on book tour, it actually involved my book launch, which was my vision. It was a combination of, what if a TED Talk, a Beyoncé concert, and a block party had a baby? That's what I wanted to do. So I wanted to talk on stage, I wanted to dance on stage, I wanted it to be a-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Love it
- MFMarie Forleo
... full concert, and it was amazing. We sold out the Hammerstein Ballroom. It was so much fun, but I had not been dancing in that regard or my ability to perform since I was a Nike athlete back in the day. So I was like, "Okay, I need to train again." So in those times, the morning, like, I'm not gonna do, uh, a super, like, lengthy morning process of, like, meditation and journaling and all that stuff. I needed to get my ass in the studio and rehearse and perform for, like, a couple of months because that was my primary project. In other times, like when I was working on writing the book, the most important thing for me to do in the morning was to meditate and write. So it always is contextual, and it's tied to whatever my primary project is in that stage and season of my life. Generally speaking, I find that movement, and for me specifically, dance and weight training, are two of the things... and yoga. I would throw yoga in there as well, the things that help my channel stay open, for as strange as that might sound. I think that for many of us, we spend so much time looking at our screens, and we spend so much time sitting and so much time consuming information and podcasts and shows, that we're oftentimes out of touch with our physical body.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Absolutely.
- MFMarie Forleo
And so that movement practice, whatever it may be, for me, clears my mental cache and has me-... much more receptive to what I like to call downloads, those intuitive downloads, those ideas, those breakthroughs that don't come from grind.
- 24:15 – 28:56
Financial freedom and the fear of losing it
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah. Let's talk about financial stability.
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes!
- MMMarina Mogilko
You shared your background, you know, coming from a family... Your, your family was, uh, immigrated from Italy, right?
- MFMarie Forleo
Um, not my parents, but my parents' parents.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Your parents' parents.
- MFMarie Forleo
Yeah.
- MMMarina Mogilko
You have, you have this immigrant mindset.
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes.
- MMMarina Mogilko
I grew up in Russia. We had one room that was shared with my parents. I could on- they could only afford one apple a week, so it was... And it lasted like that for seven years of my life, and then it was still kind of we weren't really well off. So when I started making money, until this day, it's really hard for me to say no to brand deals, just because I'm still that Marina-
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes
- MMMarina Mogilko
... who's in Russia, who- whose parents can't afford the food.
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Like, who am I to say no to this? [chuckles]
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes.
- MMMarina Mogilko
And it seems like a never-ending game, so this fear of going back to that room-
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes
- MMMarina Mogilko
... never went away.
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes.
- MMMarina Mogilko
I wonder if it ever went away for you, or you're still? [chuckles]
- MFMarie Forleo
So it's such a great question, and it's a really important one because it speaks to something universal that I think all of us, it's useful to face. And it's like: what is enough, and when do you stop? And to answer very, very specifically, there was a point in my career when I remember talking to my financial advisors, and they sat me down, and we did all of the different scenarios that you can run. And there's, like, one name, it's c- it's kind of a brilliant name, which I love it. It's called Retire Tomorrow, and it's just a set of algorithms that they can run based on your investments and your spend, and all those wonderful things. And they told me, "Marie, you'll never have to work again." And Marina, I didn't believe it, and I... Do you know what I- like, I, I believed it. I understood. I could receive that information, but on a cellular level, I didn't trust it. I didn't trust it.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah, right, 'cause financial system can crash.
- MFMarie Forleo
That-
- MMMarina Mogilko
That's my thing.
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes!
- MMMarina Mogilko
You can tell me whatever you want. [chuckles]
- MFMarie Forleo
Absolutely.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- MFMarie Forleo
And so- and but I also, like, sim- simultaneously, I know myself. Like, I'm actually not a big spender. It has taken me personally a few years, like four to five years, to really thaw to the fact that I don't have to work anymore. And so it has been, and it continues to be, a journey, like a spiritual journey of really tuning in and understanding from a very reasonable, logical place, yes, of course, the markets could tank, everything could go away. And then I also have to face the reality, like, if that world happens, all bets are off. Then we're in, like, a Hunger Game situation, and it doesn't matter what I had in the bank. Do, does that make sense?
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah, but still, I'm like, but there will be crypto, there will be cash. I have [chuckles] enough of that-
- MFMarie Forleo
Yeah, yeah, yeah
- 28:56 – 31:04
Do you really need to stay hungry to succeed?
- MFMarie Forleo
that you, that you want.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah, I think it's also something that keeps us going, right?
- MFMarie Forleo
Mm-hmm.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Especially immigrants.
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Uh, and you're like, "But should I drop this feeling if it's the one that's-
- MFMarie Forleo
If it's... Oh, that's actually- let you... Uh, can we peel into that a little bit?
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah, yeah, let's do it.
- MFMarie Forleo
Because that's super fun. There is an idea and a notion that I think many of us have been taught, I've certainly been taught it, that if you don't have hunger, that if you don't keep that hunger alive, that somehow you're gonna lose your edge, that somehow you're gonna fall behind, that somehow you're gonna f- slip out of relevance. And every single one of those thoughts, at least for me, is rooted in fear. It's rooted in fear of losing something. It's rooted in fear of, again, becoming irrelevant, or missing out, or falling behind, or other people are gonna get ahead, or I'm gonna lose everything I worked so hard for. And the more I've been pushing against that dogma and testing it, it's not true. It's like creation can happen at so many different levels, and for me, what my experience has been is-... the desire to create comes less from a desire to prove or keep or retain or clench or hold onto, and it's coming from a much deeper, more s- expansive and playful and easeful place, which is not something that I'm used to, just to be clear.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- MFMarie Forleo
I'm used to pushing. I'm used to grinding. I'm used to, like, "Get out of my way, and I will make it happen." That's useful. That's awesome, but it's almost like, you know how a piano has 88 keys?
- MMMarina Mogilko
Mm.
- MFMarie Forleo
I've been playing on 44 for the first part of my career, which is that push, that grind. Again, it's useful skills. We-
- MMMarina Mogilko
This is what gets you ahead sometimes.
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes, that's what... We love it, but what if there's a whole other range to play in?
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- MFMarie Forleo
And so that's what I'm interested in exploring. I ain't losing that. That's a part of me. That's never gonna go away.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- MFMarie Forleo
But it's kind of like overtraining a muscle. Do you know what I mean?
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- MFMarie Forleo
And it, it gets boring a little bit.
- MMMarina Mogilko
That makes total sense.
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- MFMarie Forleo
So you have that range, so when you need to push, when you need to grind, when you need to have that hunger, it's like, "Oh, I can fire that up. That's well-worn in me," but what about this whole other side?
- 31:04 – 33:26
What success looks like now
- MMMarina Mogilko
Love it.
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes.
- MMMarina Mogilko
So what's the metric you optimize for these days?
- MFMarie Forleo
The metric I optimize for is honestly, like, from a business perspective, I'm like, is it easeful, joyful money? Like, can I show up and create a product, a service, or an offering where it's, like, in that 80 to 90% genius zone for me, and there is no nervous system dread? If there's something like, "Oh, all your customers and your audience wants it, and they want it so bad, and everybody wants it," I'm like, "Dude, if I don't want it, it is a psychic, emotional, energetic drain, and at some point, it's gonna be a detriment to the bottom line. It's gonna be a detriment to my ability to, to serve and my team." Like, everything's gonna go down at some point if I don't obey my inner truth. So from a money standpoint, like, you know, and of course, there's the difference between the business side and the personal side. So I think one of the joys at hitting the stage that I'm at is, like, I don't have to work for the money. So now I wanna reshape things where it's like, oh, I'm working because things are really exciting, because I can bring something to the market, or I can create something that's gonna make my customers' lives so much easier, but I'm gonna do it in a very artful and playful way.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Do you see more progress there?
- MFMarie Forleo
Do I see... Oh.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Like, does it grow faster than when it's coming from the fear or, like, the hustle?
- MFMarie Forleo
Well, it's actually- it feels like it's just making the entirety of my life better and more rich, if that makes sense.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- MFMarie Forleo
And I feel like in many ways... Like, we're having this conversation where I'm at the baby phases of this next stage for me, so I don't even have enough data points to be able to share with you yet, but maybe we'll have a conversation in, like, two or three years, and I'll be like, "Oh, my God, Marina, I have to tell..." You know what I mean?
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- MFMarie Forleo
I'll have so much more to share. Um, but it's exciting. It's really exciting, and I will tell you, as someone who's always been, like... Uh, in many ways, uh, there's a lot of dichotomy within me. Like, when I first started and throughout my whole career, I've had so much insecurity about not being good enough, but there's been other sides of me where I'm like, "No, I can do this," and I've made it happen. And I think what is interesting and fascinating and what feels so wonderfully energizing at this point, where the confidence doesn't feel like it's rooted in any kind of bravado or proving, and it feels really, really just easy.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- MFMarie Forleo
And that, for me, feels like, woof, what a weight off my shoulders.
- MMMarina Mogilko
I don't have to prove anything to anyone.
- MFMarie Forleo
That's right. That's right.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah,
- 33:26 – 36:32
Choosing not to have kids
- MMMarina Mogilko
and you don't have to answer if you don't want.
- MFMarie Forleo
No, it's okay.
- MMMarina Mogilko
But what about the kids? Like, you made a decision to not have biological kids.
- MFMarie Forleo
Oh, yes, yes, yes. So that was actually another body truth that I always knew. So I remember, um, you know, before I was... My partner now, Josh, and I, we've been together for 22 years, and early on, you know, when I was dating and, and just so excited and, like, college and after college, and I would have all these, like, great relationships, and these guys that I would date, they'd be like, "Okay, and then we're gonna get married, and then we're gonna have kids, and we're gonna move back to New Jersey." I'm like, "Wait, what? Like, are you not looking at this being? Like, I- that's, that's not on my agenda." So the truth of the matter is, um, people have always asked, they're like, "Well, wait, no, you're gonna change your mind, and you're gonna die alone." And I'm like, "I hope I die alone. Like, I don't wanna take anyone down with me."
- MMMarina Mogilko
[chuckles]
- MFMarie Forleo
I've just never wanted... I've never- it's like, it's never been a calling, and I think that that is such a sacred choice to bring life into the world, that you have to want it with all of your being. And I was lucky enough that when Josh and I met, he already had a son, so I, like, instantly got a nine-year-old boy, and he's now 30. And so it was perfect 'cause I was like, "Do you, do you want more kids?" And he's like, "If you really wanted them, like, it's not a problem." And I was like, "No, I don't want them." "No," he's like, "Cool." And I was like, "Oh, my God, I just hit the jackpot." It was j- it was literally a body truth for me, and, um, it-
- MMMarina Mogilko
You never regretted it? No-
- MFMarie Forleo
Not-
- MMMarina Mogilko
... any bad thoughts?
- MFMarie Forleo
A second. Like, not-
- MMMarina Mogilko
That's a very powerful-
- MFMarie Forleo
Not-
- MMMarina Mogilko
... thing to realize that, you know?
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- MFMarie Forleo
Not a second, and it comes back to kind of where, in many ways, we started our conversation, which was around I feel like my mom really gave me a gift of, like, understanding that everyone has intuition and everyone has this small inner voice inside, and to really honor that. So in her context, so she was, um, you know, raised in a Catholic school, and so the nuns really drilled into her, and she, she basically taught me that. She's like, "Marie, everyone has a direct line to God. You don't need to go to the church. You don't need to go anywhere. Like, you just have to listen to this little inner voice inside." My inner voice was very clear since I was a child that I was not meant to have biological kids. Throughout my entire life, it's all been like, "This is not your path."
- MMMarina Mogilko
Did your parents ever had a bad reaction to this decision?
- MFMarie Forleo
Oh, my God, my mom was like, "What is wrong with you?" Like, m- but, you know, my dad's pretty chill, and he- I've never even heard him get angry in my whole life. But my mom, for a long time, was, like, real pissed. I was like, "If you want another kid, go adopt one." She... I literally, I was like, "How do you not know this about me?" And she's like, "Yeah, but everybody..." I was like, "Not everybody, not this one." So, yeah, I got shit about it-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Great
- MFMarie Forleo
... from a lot of people. [laughs]
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- MFMarie Forleo
[laughs]
- MMMarina Mogilko
No, it's... but it's a, it's a new perspective. Well, for me, at least-
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes
- MMMarina Mogilko
... like, I'm from a very traditional background-
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes
- MMMarina Mogilko
... where, like, Russians-
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes
- MMMarina Mogilko
... three kids minimum. [chuckles]
- MFMarie Forleo
Well, Italians, too. It's like, where are they?
- 36:32 – 41:30
Shiny object syndrome and staying focused
- MMMarina Mogilko
wrap up with a question that's, I feel like a lot of people are going through this phase where there are so many shiny things-
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes
- MMMarina Mogilko
-and we talked about them. And you're like, "Oh, this is not happening. I've been doing this for a year. I don't see, you know, any progress. I should probably chase this shiny thing."
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes.
- MMMarina Mogilko
How do you keep this focus?
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes.
- MMMarina Mogilko
How do you know you're doing the right thing-
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes
- MMMarina Mogilko
-and not start switching?
- MFMarie Forleo
Oh, that's such a great question. Well, I think a few things. Um, in my own experience, one of the best moves that I made, and this was just me, 'cause I know my own risk averseness, especially when it comes to money. I am not a human who thrives under, like, intense financial pressure, so here's what that looked like for me. When I decided to start my own coaching business, I did go back to what I was doing to help put myself through college, which was waiting tables, um, I was a personal assistant, I cleaned toilets, I taught dance. I did so many different things to keep a roof over my head in New York City, because I did not want my coaching business to be the source- my only source of income, 'cause I knew it would make me desperate. I knew that energy would be so repellent. So it took me five to six years of having bridge jobs, part-time jobs, until I really got my act together, where my confidence, and my ability to coach, and my ability to do everything really started to gel. And so I think it was such a gift in that way, because it allowed me to really perfect my art and my craft, if that makes any kind of sense. And I was-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Build that confidence from it.
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes.
- MMMarina Mogilko
It's all about the confidence in what you're doing.
- MFMarie Forleo
It really is, and it also gave me enough time to figure out what the hell I was doing, and to build a following. I wanted to bootstrap, you know what I mean? I didn't feel comfortable. I was so afraid of money. I didn't trust myself, nor did I even understand the world of getting fund... Like, that was all so foreign to me, that I wanted to build this thing from the ground up just using whatever I could pull together myself. And so I think that, to answer your question, like, when someone's like, "Oh, I've been doing this for a year, and nothing's happening," or I, I think it does depend on the kind of business that you have, if you're venture funded or, or you're bootstrapping. But for me, I only have my experience, which was, you have to love what you're doing and believe in it so much, and know that there's other people that can help you figure out what may be the business disconnect, or tweak your offer, or your marketing, or whatever. But I think you have to come back and ask yourself this question: Do I want to keep devoting time and energy to this, even if it might not work out? Like, if you want guaranteed money, go get a job.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Love that. [laughing]
- MFMarie Forleo
Do-
- MMMarina Mogilko
So, g- are you enjoying the process?
- MFMarie Forleo
Yes!
- MMMarina Mogilko
Are you willing to do it for the next X amount of years-
- MFMarie Forleo
It-
- MMMarina Mogilko
... because you enjoy it?
- MFMarie Forleo
Because you enjoy it, and because you think it's making you a better person, and because you believe in the product or service that you're offering. And if you're honest with yourself, you're like, "I haven't really hit it yet," like, you have to have real 10/10 talks with yourself. Are you just believing some internet lore, or someone you saw on TikTok or YouTube or Instagram is like, "I made a gajillion dollars," and you're like-
- MMMarina Mogilko
And they might be lying.
- MFMarie Forleo
And they are probably lying. And the one thing I'll just share is, like, I've been doing this for so long, and so I've had a front row seat to so many wonderful humans. And we're all human and we're all imperfect, but I've met too many people that it is very shiny on the outside, and there are big kind of ego-tied numbers that they're throwing out, but I do also know that they're broke in all the ways, that there's not necessarily that much money and wealth being built, and they're really afraid, and they're in a bad place behind the scenes. So don't believe everything that you hear, don't believe everything that you see, and if you believe in your idea, your product, or your service, and you wanna keep going for it, it's like, do whatever it takes. Have those side gigs, have whatever, so you can give this thing the chance that it needs to thrive.
- MMMarina Mogilko
I love it, 'cause you need at least, you would say, seven years?
- MFMarie Forleo
No, I mean, it could happen sooner. I've hon- I've honestly seen people, especially if they have other experience, that they can parlay... Like, if someone was in sales for a particular company, or maybe they were an excellent PR person, and they could take those skills, parlay, and leverage them into their business, they might start seeing amazing results in, like, six months or a year. And amazing is contextual and it's subjective, right? If you start seeing some traction, you're like, "Oh, my God, this is just... Like, I know if I just give this more time, it could grow." That's what I started to see. I started to just get a little bit of traction, but it took me- Again, I'm a slowpoke, so you don't- there's no hard and fast rule, but it may take some people a couple years to start really getting in their groove, and that's okay. Like, you're on your own timeline, and you don't need to prove anything to anyone but yourself.
- MMMarina Mogilko
I love it. Thank you so much.
- MFMarie Forleo
Thank you!
- MMMarina Mogilko
This was so therapeutic [chuckles] for me as well. Uh, you're amazing, Marie. Thank you so much for taking the time, and, uh, guys, please comment down below what was your key takeaway from this conversation? I'm looking forward to reading your comments, and see you soon on this channel. Bye.
Episode duration: 41:31
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