Live Like You Have 2 Years Left with dancer and cancer survivor Angela Trimbur | A Bit of Optimism

1. 0:00 – 1:49

   What if you had 2 years left to live?

   1. SSSimon Sinek0:00

      You survived cancer.

   2. ATAngela Trimbur0:01

      Yes.

   3. SSSimon Sinek0:02

      What kind of person were you before, and who are you now?

   4. ATAngela Trimbur0:06

      If I had two years left, would I wanna say I stayed in my rent-controlled apartment and I continued holding onto this great space that I have? No, I'd wanna let it all go. I'd wanna let everything go that I own. I wanna move to Manhattan and be a dance teacher. And so I'm like, "Okay." I sold everything, and I moved with, like, $3,000 to New York City.

   5. SSSimon Sinek0:28

      What if you found out that you only had six months left to live? You'd probably start knocking things off your bucket list, empty your bank account, and try and live life to the fullest. But what if you were told you had five years left to live? You might put some of those bucket list things off for a while and maybe think you had plenty of time to get them done. But what if you only had two years left to live? It's a strange middle ground. Not enough time to waste, but enough time to do things with more patience or intention. Well, that's exactly where Angela Trimbur found herself after being diagnosed with breast cancer. The result profoundly changed how she spends her time, the path her career took, and most powerfully, the person she became. Angela replaced her chase for perfection and her need to control everything with a pursuit of joy, and now, through what she calls sentimental weird dance classes, she helps other people tap into something they didn't even know they were missing. Angela has learned to live a life worth living, and she's teaching others how to do the same. This is A Bit of Optimism. [upbeat music]

2. 1:49 – 2:07

   Sponsor Message: True Classic

   1. SSSimon Sinek1:49

      This episode is brought to you by True Classic. I love their T-shirts. I've been wearing them for a long time before they became a sponsor. I personally like the V-necks and all of the basic colors. I like earth tones. I could d- get dressed with my eyes closed. It's pretty good. Um, but I love their stuff, and I'm really proud to have them as a sponsor.

3. 2:07 – 4:49

   Why Angela is one of Simon's favorite artists

   1. SSSimon Sinek2:08

      You are f- one of my favorite artists.

   2. ATAngela Trimbur2:10

      Whoa, okay.

   3. SSSimon Sinek2:11

      And I'll tell you why.

   4. ATAngela Trimbur2:12

      Okay, yes.

   5. SSSimon Sinek2:12

      And I'll tell you why. I love art. I love all of the arts.

   6. ATAngela Trimbur2:16

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SSSimon Sinek2:17

      I love dance. I love good theater. I like painting. I like photography. I like the arts. I like things that, that excite my senses. But the thing that I hate about the arts is the arts tend to be very exclusive-

   8. ATAngela Trimbur2:34

      Mm-hmm

   9. SSSimon Sinek2:34

      ... and also make people feel like, the, and, and inaccessible is the word I'm looking for. In fact, you know, I, you, you talk to, like, uh, symphonies or opera companies or even some dance companies, ballet companies, and all they do is complain about how they can't get new people to come, and yet they're arrogant and distant.

   10. ATAngela Trimbur2:50

       Mm-hmm.

   11. SSSimon Sinek2:50

       And museums, the same. I've always said to friends, you know, the only reason you need to say why you like a piece of art is, "I don't know. I just like it."

   12. ATAngela Trimbur2:57

       Mm-hmm.

   13. SSSimon Sinek2:58

       That's just where it starts.

   14. ATAngela Trimbur2:59

       Mm-hmm.

   15. SSSimon Sinek2:59

       And one of the reasons you're my favorite art, one of my favorite artists, is because you have made a career out of making art accessible.

   16. ATAngela Trimbur3:06

       Mm.

   17. SSSimon Sinek3:07

       It is the least elite thing-

   18. ATAngela Trimbur3:09

       Yeah

   19. SSSimon Sinek3:09

       ... that you do.

   20. ATAngela Trimbur3:10

       Mm-hmm.

   21. SSSimon Sinek3:11

       And the most welcoming thing that you do.

   22. ATAngela Trimbur3:13

       Thank you. Yeah, it's really, like, um... To make something that I would want to be a part of is, is where that comes from, and I used to feel so, like I wanna spend time with artists, and I'd go to a dinner party with them. And for some reason, I still felt like, why am I, why is there a disconnect? And it's, big words are floating around, and I'm like, "I don't, I don't know that reference." You know, just these things that made me feel smaller and smaller. I respect these people, but there's something that just felt, yeah, feels like I drive home, and I'm like, "Wow, I, oh, I should've said this. I should've said this." But just so creating a, a world where there, that feeling doesn't come up for anyone is, is just what motivates me to...

   23. SSSimon Sinek3:55

       I- in your training, you're, you don't, like, you don't, you're not a trained ballerina?

   24. ATAngela Trimbur4:00

       No, I mean, my mom owned an ar- a dance studio when I was little, so I grew up in a dance studio, but no, I haven't trained since I was 12.

   25. SSSimon Sinek4:07

       Which makes it even better.

   26. ATAngela Trimbur4:08

       Yeah.

   27. SSSimon Sinek4:08

       You know? What you do.

   28. ATAngela Trimbur4:09

       I know. Sometimes I'm, I, like, don't wanna... I wanna study other choreographers' work and things like that, but then I'm like, ooh, but I don't wanna start getting in my head, and [laughs] I don't wanna learn counts. Like, I don't do counts in class. I like to think that's left side of the brain and-

   29. SSSimon Sinek4:24

       Wow.

   30. ATAngela Trimbur4:25

       Yeah, 'cause it really is.
4. 4:49 – 10:58

   How Angela broke into dance

   1. SSSimon Sinek4:49

      How did that all start? 'Cause I know your stuff, 'cause I know, I, I just know it from social media.

   2. ATAngela Trimbur4:55

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SSSimon Sinek4:55

      But I actually don't know your story, if I'm honest.

   4. ATAngela Trimbur4:57

      Well, I think kind of, like, my first break into dance, so to speak, was back in 2012. I went, back when YouTube, kind of viral was a new word floating around, I had a dance video that went viral, and it was called Dance Like Nobody's Watching. And it was just that I had something due for this brand, Hello Giggles, and it was like I was staring at, like, a blinking cursor. I wasn't inspired. I didn't know what to do, and I'm, like, r- getting over a breakup, and I was sad about it. And I wanted to try to find some energy to push through 'cause that was why I was depressed and not writing, and so I thought, "Oh, why don't I, I'm gonna go to the laundromat where we had a breakup, and I'm gonna dance, and I'm gonna put headphones in." And so I just went, and I put headphones in, and I film myself dancing, and nobody looked at me or anything. Nobody even acknowledged me, and it turned into, like, okay, dance like nobody's watching 'cause nobody was. And I just shot it once, and that was it, and I handed that in as what, instead of the writing piece. And then they put it up, and it w- was, like, millions of views. It was on the news. Like, it was just this really crazy thing, and then it started, other people wanted to do Dance Like Nobody's Watching, and so people are starting to, like, dance in public places and calling it the same thing. And I did a few other ones. Then that's when, like, casting directors would see me 'cause I w- I was acting at the time, and, like, uh, casting directors were, like, m- in- curious about me and bringing me in, but as a dancer, like, just as this optimistic, let it all go dancer.So that kinda, like, put me on the map in that way. And then I started, um, a dance squad. We did, like, community, women's community basketball game halftime dance shows, which was kinda like a really more performance art, irreverent, 'cause we weren't... I don't know. There's just something really cool about-

   5. SSSimon Sinek6:48

      You're not cheerleaders.

   6. ATAngela Trimbur6:49

      We're not cheerleaders-

   7. SSSimon Sinek6:50

      Yeah

   8. ATAngela Trimbur6:50

      ... but you have a minute and a half to infect joy and keep the energy going.

   9. SSSimon Sinek6:54

      Mm-hmm.

   10. ATAngela Trimbur6:54

       So the concept of, like, a halftime dance, I love. You can't go wrong.

   11. SSSimon Sinek6:57

       Mm-hmm.

   12. ATAngela Trimbur6:58

       Um, and so I did that for six years, and then I started-

   13. SSSimon Sinek7:02

       As a job?

   14. ATAngela Trimbur7:03

       No.

   15. SSSimon Sinek7:03

       Just for fun.

   16. ATAngela Trimbur7:04

       Just for fun. Yeah.

   17. SSSimon Sinek7:05

       With a bunch of friends.

   18. ATAngela Trimbur7:06

       With a bunch of friends. It was an audition process. It was, like, a strict, like, you had to be there every-

   19. SSSimon Sinek7:11

       Yeah, yeah, yeah

   20. ATAngela Trimbur7:11

       ... you know? Like, it was a, that was very structured.

   21. SSSimon Sinek7:14

       It was a commitment. Yeah.

   22. ATAngela Trimbur7:15

       Yeah. And, uh, through that then, I also started doing these things called Slightly Guided Dance Parties, and [laughs] that was, like-

   23. SSSimon Sinek7:23

       [laughs]

   24. ATAngela Trimbur7:24

       'Cause I went to a house party, and I was seeing people in the living room just bopping. People are, they're just going like this, and I was, was just, like, watching. I'm like, "Why is every..." Like, no one goes for it. There's always one person that, like, goes for it, and they're, like, the drunk one or, like, the attention seeker. But I'm like, no, they're, they're actually the only ones really dancing here. And then that song came on that was like, "Throw your hands in the air. Wave them like you just don't care," and everyone seemed relieved to know what they should be doing. And I was like, oh, that's what they just need to be slightly guided.

   25. SSSimon Sinek7:56

       So the song, the song gave them the guidance.

   26. ATAngela Trimbur7:58

       Yes. And I saw the relief.

   27. SSSimon Sinek8:00

       Yeah.

   28. ATAngela Trimbur8:00

       And I'm like, oh, people just don't know what to do, so they're trying to exist without taking up space and dance, and... So then I thought, what if I just made a Slightly Guided Dance Party, and it would be me up there on stage, like, slightly guiding people through a dance party? Which, so it's, like, 60% guided, and then I'd, like, leave you off, and then you have three songs you could do on your own. But it really worked, and, um, it was silly. And I would give little, a little speech before to just kinda get everyone out of their shell. Like, "Don't try to be cool. There's no tunnel vision here. Like, make eye contact with people." It would be, I'd call it, like, Awkward Prom, and we'd start off with Awkward Prom. And I'm like, "You hold the other person this far away."

   29. SSSimon Sinek8:45

       Right. Fran- Frankensteining.

   30. ATAngela Trimbur8:46

       Yeah, exactly.
5. 10:58 – 17:18

   Before and after cancer

   1. SSSimon Sinek10:58

      So we have to go down this path, which is you survived cancer.

   2. ATAngela Trimbur11:02

      Yes.

   3. SSSimon Sinek11:03

      How did it change you? How did it change who you are?

   4. ATAngela Trimbur11:06

      Hmm.

   5. SSSimon Sinek11:06

      Like, what kind of person were you before, and who are you now?

   6. ATAngela Trimbur11:10

      Hmm. Well-

   7. SSSimon Sinek11:13

      How long ago did you have it?

   8. ATAngela Trimbur11:15

      I was diagnosed in 2018. Um, I'm surprised... I don't know when I'm gonna cry when I talk about things like that. But just your question posed that feeling. Um, I would say before, I was very controlling. I was really, um, codependent, even with the, the dance squad that I had, 'cause I, I was diagnosed when I was running the dance squad. Like, it was really like, "We're family. We're all together. Like, we meet this time. This is it. No, you can't... You're gonna come late? No, you can't come late." Like, I was, like, this, like, dance captain energy that was, like, kind of a character but not really because I really had these feelings. Um, like, with a, in relationships, I was really like, "Who are you texting?" You know, there was just this, like, grasp that I had on things, and that's just from, like, not being close with my family and when my family didn't really show up when I went through cancer. Like, you know, my sister, we're close, but we weren't super close at the time, and my dad and mom not, not showing up. It reminded me, like, wow, chosen family is, like, all I have, and this is probably why I'm, like, clingy like this to, to people.

   9. SSSimon Sinek12:21

      More, more of afraid of losing them.

   10. ATAngela Trimbur12:22

       More afraid of losing them.

   11. SSSimon Sinek12:23

       Yeah, yeah.

   12. ATAngela Trimbur12:24

       Yeah, and so holding on so tight. And then cancer just kind of taught me how to not overthink-So I was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2018 and learned that I had the BRCA gene, which is like a family, you know, you have to reach out to your family. And so that was when I had to, like, finally reach out to my mom. I hadn't talked to her in so long. So it kind of, like, forced these dominoes to fall that I was kinda blocking. And letting go of saying goodbye to, like, your breasts that you've, that are, that represent motherhood, that are very sexual. Like, I loved my breasts. Like, I thought they were perfect and they were, like, my [laughs] they were, like, my calling card. Like, sexually, I, like, couldn't wait to undo my shirt and, like, reveal them in their glory. And so to have that be like, now you're not gonna have sensation there, and they're taken away, and they're not gonna be as attractive anymore, and you don't have that anymore, and I can't breastfeed, and like... So just all these things that I had as things I never thought I wouldn't. So you're kind of, like, stripped away from a lot of things that connected you to yourself and the future. And so there was a therapist that kinda came along with... Like Cedars has a... Not a lot of people know this, like, in the breast, um, cancer community, you have access to a therapist that's meant just for that. You have to kinda, like, know to ask for it. But I started working with one and she taught me about how the main goal is to keep your stress levels low. I'd ask her things and she'd be like, "Whatever makes you the least amount of stress, that's the decision that you make." And so I started kind of, like, anything that made me feel tense, I learned how to kinda let go. And I would say, in a nutshell, I just really learned about myself, and how to be gentle on myself, and how to let life unfold as it will, that you can't control things. You have to trust the universe, and you kinda have to trust fall backwards and be like, "I don't know what the plan is. I don't know what the lesson is, but I'm sure it's gonna make sense soon." And, like, when I was first diagnosed, all these survivors ca- you know, that I don't know, and they were like, "Trust me, you're gonna love who you become after, and you're not gonna regret it. You, you wouldn't take it back." And at first I'm like, "Yeah right, this is gonna be awful." But in retrospect, I really like who I became. I, I say that I had an edge to myself. Like, I was doing comedy. I was, like, making sketches and being funny and, like, always on. And going through cancer really made me relax and I feel softer. I'm a little bit more of an observer sometimes, feel more wallflowery. And sometimes I miss the zing zang girl, but I just feel, I, I, I like the softer side.

   13. SSSimon Sinek15:06

       How did you learn to settle the mind? 'Cause it's easier said than done, right? Oh-

   14. ATAngela Trimbur15:11

       Mm-hmm

   15. SSSimon Sinek15:11

       ... just make the, don't stress yourself and don't overthink things. Like-

   16. ATAngela Trimbur15:15

       Yeah

   17. SSSimon Sinek15:15

       ... every overthinker overthinks about overthinking.

   18. ATAngela Trimbur15:18

       Right.

   19. SSSimon Sinek15:18

       You know? It's like-

   20. ATAngela Trimbur15:19

       Yeah

   21. SSSimon Sinek15:19

       ... "Stop overthinking. Stop overthinking. You're always overthinking." Like, what did you have to go to to actually settle the mind?

   22. ATAngela Trimbur15:25

       Learning how to say no to things that don't sound... Like, I, I think the pandemic kind of taught a lot of people that, but I went through this before the pandemic. I just learned how you don't wanna do something that you have plans with, like, it's okay to cancel, like, because you're sick, so you, you kinda have a, an excuse. Well, it wasn't an excuse, but your energy levels, you're tired. Like, I had this respect from other people like, "Okay, she's literally, you know, in chemo, so if she wants to cancel plans, she can." But you don't have to be going through anything to do that.

   23. SSSimon Sinek15:58

       Mm-hmm.

   24. ATAngela Trimbur15:58

       Like, you don't have to have an excuse. It's just whatever-

   25. SSSimon Sinek16:01

       Mm-hmm

   26. ATAngela Trimbur16:01

       ... you need to get-

   27. SSSimon Sinek16:02

       Mm-hmm

   28. ATAngela Trimbur16:02

       ... through. And I think I was always a FOMO person. I don't wanna miss out. I can't let this person down. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna do this. I gotta do that, even if I don't want to. I don't know, there's just something that learning how to prioritize your needs was something I never really did. I was just acting out of fear.

   29. SSSimon Sinek16:19

       During the pandemic, a lot of us learned that lesson.

   30. ATAngela Trimbur16:22

       Mm-hmm.
6. 17:18 – 20:03

   The 2-Year Mindset

   1. ATAngela Trimbur17:18

      I went through, I had a lot of people that came up to me that would see me in public like, "Thank you so much for sharing," and, "My mom went through this." And then I'd say, "Oh, good. How are they now?" And they're like, "Uh, well, it came back two years later." And, um, I kept hearing two. I kept hearing recurrence after two years, and I was like, "What is this two? What's the two message? Is it gonna come back for me?" And so I started thinking if I only operate as if I had two years left, and it sounds like it's a dark thought, but it's actually not, because the timeline makes sense for anybody. You don't stay stagnant. You don't have six months. You're not bucket listing. You're not blowing money. You're also not, like, five-year plan, where you're like, "I have some time to get there." Like, two years, if I only had two years left. And so I asked myself when I was living in LA, if I had two years left, would I wanna say I stayed in my rent-controlled apartment and I continued holding on to this great space that I have and just kind of... It's like, what would I wanna do? No, I'd wanna let it all go. I'd wanna let everything go that I own. I wanna move to Manhattan and be a dance teacher. I wanna say that I was a dance teacher in Manhattan. And so I'm like, "Okay, I'm doing it." I, I worked on this show called Search Party, and I lived in Brooklyn for the first time for three months. It was, like, a whole summer of filming, and as soon as I went there, I'm like, "This is another sign." So I, I-Sold everything and I moved with like $3,000 to New York City and, um, I don't know how I did it, but I got an apartment and I started, I was like, "I just have to start teaching." And through the dance following that I kinda built from all the other things I'd mentioned, 'cause I started doing these dance parties at like the MOCA in LA and I had, there were like 300 people coming, so I had like-

   2. SSSimon Sinek18:54

      Museum of Contemporary Art. Yeah.

   3. ATAngela Trimbur18:56

      Yeah. Yeah. So I had kind of like a following. And then the, the classes, somebody from the Times took the class unbeknownst to me and asked to do like a feature on me when I was there. And so after living in New York for two months, I had a Times article about my unique dance class approach, and then the classes ever since then were sold out and now I'm-

   4. SSSimon Sinek19:16

      So th- this, first of all, let's, it's worth underscoring because it is such a profound thought, which is to live life as if you only have two years left.

   5. ATAngela Trimbur19:24

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SSSimon Sinek19:26

      And as you, you said it, which is if it's a six-month sentence, you start bucket listing. You start emptying your bank account. Like-

   7. ATAngela Trimbur19:32

      Yeah. [laughs]

   8. SSSimon Sinek19:33

      But if you said, if you have, "Oh, I've got five years," then you keep putting it off. And two years is sort of this kind of a-

   9. ATAngela Trimbur19:38

      Sweet spot

   10. SSSimon Sinek19:38

       ... kind of a sweet spot of like it adds some urgency, but not a crazy urgency and not a bucket list response.

   11. ATAngela Trimbur19:44

       Yeah.

   12. SSSimon Sinek19:44

       But rather I, I've always wanted to do this thing that is an investment-

   13. ATAngela Trimbur19:47

       Mm-hmm

   14. SSSimon Sinek19:47

       ... rather than a, than an event.

   15. ATAngela Trimbur19:49

       What about you? What would you do?

   16. SSSimon Sinek19:51

       That's a great question. What would I do?

   17. ATAngela Trimbur19:52

       I feel like you kind of live like this already.

   18. SSSimon Sinek19:54

       I kinda do. I kinda do. I sounded like Christopher Walken there.

   19. ATAngela Trimbur19:58

       [laughs]

   20. SSSimon Sinek19:59

       I kinda do.

   21. ATAngela Trimbur20:00

       [laughs]

   22. SSSimon Sinek20:01

       I kind of do for different reasons.

7. 20:03 – 22:16

   How Simon says no

   1. SSSimon Sinek20:03

      There's one thing that you said that I learned only pretty recently, which is I'm better at saying no, but the more important part is I don't owe anybody an explanation. And that's been very powerful for me.

   2. ATAngela Trimbur20:15

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SSSimon Sinek20:15

      Because I think very often, look, I don't wanna lie, but when people say, "Can you do something for me?" And I, you come up with, "Well, I'm so busy." But at the end of the day, if I really wanted to do it, I'd find the time. Or canceling plans-

   4. ATAngela Trimbur20:28

      Mm-hmm

   5. SSSimon Sinek20:28

      ... 'cause I either just change my mind.

   6. ATAngela Trimbur20:30

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SSSimon Sinek20:31

      You know, I canceled going to a wedding. You know, I RSVP'd yes. No, it's not like I, the day before, but like-

   8. ATAngela Trimbur20:36

      Yeah

   9. SSSimon Sinek20:36

      ... three months, four months before the wedding, I just decided I didn't wanna travel and I just didn't wanna go, you know?

   10. ATAngela Trimbur20:42

       Mm-hmm.

   11. SSSimon Sinek20:42

       In that case, I probably owed an explanation.

   12. ATAngela Trimbur20:44

       [laughs]

   13. SSSimon Sinek20:44

       But, uh, but, uh, but I found that like I just say, "Thanks so much for inviting me, but I'm gonna pass," or, "I'm so sorry to do this, but I, I-

   14. ATAngela Trimbur20:52

       It feels wrong

   15. SSSimon Sinek20:52

       ... I'm, I'm gonna cancel."

   16. ATAngela Trimbur20:53

       Yeah.

   17. SSSimon Sinek20:53

       And I don't have to like text or say like all of this stuff to justify my canceling or justify saying no and tie myself into knots. The answer is I don't wanna do it, and that's-

   18. ATAngela Trimbur21:02

       Yeah

   19. SSSimon Sinek21:02

       ... that's it. And people are fine with it, I found. Nobody, no-

   20. ATAngela Trimbur21:05

       People are

   21. SSSimon Sinek21:05

       ... no- nobody slams their hand on the table and says, "Give me the reason." I'm like, "Nobody actually cares."

   22. ATAngela Trimbur21:10

       Yeah.

   23. SSSimon Sinek21:11

       And that's the other thing I've learned is nobody actually gives a shit about me at all. [laughs]

   24. ATAngela Trimbur21:14

       Yeah. People are on their own journey. They're always thinking of-

   25. SSSimon Sinek21:17

       They're on their, they're doing their own thing.

   26. ATAngela Trimbur21:18

       Yeah.

   27. SSSimon Sinek21:18

       And the only reason they get upset is because that somehow upsets their dinner table. [laughs]

   28. ATAngela Trimbur21:23

       Right. Right.

   29. SSSimon Sinek21:24

       "I had it planned for an even number, and now it's an odd number." It's like-

   30. ATAngela Trimbur21:27

       Yeah
8. 22:16 – 29:07

   Dance is supposed to be fun: balletcore vs. ballet

   1. ATAngela Trimbur22:16

      journey.

   2. SSSimon Sinek22:17

      Let's go back to the dance classes.

   3. ATAngela Trimbur22:18

      Okay.

   4. SSSimon Sinek22:18

      'Cause we haven't really... [laughs]

   5. ATAngela Trimbur22:19

      [laughs]

   6. SSSimon Sinek22:20

      Because we haven't really explained to anybody what they're like. It's whoever wants to come.

   7. ATAngela Trimbur22:24

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SSSimon Sinek22:25

      As you said, there's no like, "One and two," and there's no counting.

   9. ATAngela Trimbur22:28

      No counts.

   10. SSSimon Sinek22:28

       There's no-

   11. ATAngela Trimbur22:29

       There's no skill level

   12. SSSimon Sinek22:31

       ... there's no skill level. Even the teacher has no formal training. [laughs]

   13. ATAngela Trimbur22:34

       Mm-hmm. [laughs] Right.

   14. SSSimon Sinek22:35

       The only skill the teacher brings is a love of life and the ability to dance like nobody's watching.

   15. ATAngela Trimbur22:41

       Mm-hmm. Yep.

   16. SSSimon Sinek22:43

       Which is what you do in spades. And what is so magical about your class is people living out these sort of childhood fantasies of, "I'm gonna be a ballerina" and take, and like little kids dressing up to go to take their ballet class.

   17. ATAngela Trimbur22:55

       Mm-hmm.

   18. SSSimon Sinek22:55

       And your people, your students, they're dressing in pink tights and leotards, and it's dance class-

   19. ATAngela Trimbur23:02

       Yes

   20. SSSimon Sinek23:03

       ... as if we're little kids.

   21. ATAngela Trimbur23:04

       Yes.

   22. SSSimon Sinek23:04

       And kinda like little kids, nobody really knows how to dance, and none of it matters.

   23. ATAngela Trimbur23:08

       Yes. It's, I, I teach a bunch of different kind of classes. Like one is called 13. That's the first one. My pitch before I teach is like, "Imagine we're all 13 years old again, and we're in a backyard, and it's just my backyard because I have the corner house and it's the bigger backyard. But there's no hierarchy here. We're just all making up a dance and we're gonna show our parents before dinner. And our parents would be like, 'Okay, that was interesting. Go wash your hands.'" Like the stakes are so low. No one's better than anyone else. No one's cooler than anyone else here. We're all, uh, like the same. And so that's called 13. And then there, the exercise is, like for some reason, hearing that gets people, okay, there's no Beyoncé's backup dancer here, like working mentally, like staying on top of choreo. Like we're just telling a story and the stakes are low.

   24. SSSimon Sinek23:56

       It's making the show for the parents at dinner. I mean, as we've-

   25. ATAngela Trimbur23:58

       Exactly

   26. SSSimon Sinek23:58

       ... all done that.

   27. ATAngela Trimbur23:59

       Yeah, exactly.

   28. SSSimon Sinek24:00

       Yeah.

   29. ATAngela Trimbur24:00

       You get it. Living room ba- recital vibes.

   30. SSSimon Sinek24:02

       Lipstick as makeup.
9. 29:07 – 32:15

   Dance as a story

   1. ATAngela Trimbur29:07

      no, you will," because we're telling a story. So there's no lyrics to classical, and so I have to invent a story. And so the stories that evolved-

   2. SSSimon Sinek29:16

      Oh

   3. ATAngela Trimbur29:16

      ... are really, like... One is, like, um, you're a widowed spider, and you're alone, but you're not lonely. And you live in this forest, and you're a really good web maker. Like, you make beautiful webs all over the forest. Like, if you have ever seen those, like, ones in Australia where there's, like, spider webs everywhere, I'm like, "That's you. You make these spiders, like, or spider webs," and they're so inc- in, um, artistic and huge. You don't do it for the likes or the follows. You do it just because you know it makes the forest beautiful. Um, so half the routine we're weaving webs, and, like, you're confident, and there's, like, this, like, confidence that they have to go through, too, and this, like, a web gets stuck in your foot. Like, doesn't matter. You're gonna take it off and throw it away in the wind. And then all of a sudden a bird flies over, and they're dropping a scroll, and you catch it, and you look, and lo and behold, it's the mayor of the forest who wants to give you an award for all the art you've dedicated to the community, and they wanna thank you. And so you cry 'cause you feel seen without needing that recognition.

   4. SSSimon Sinek30:18

      [laughs]

   5. ATAngela Trimbur30:18

      But now you have it, and you get crowned. Like, there's, like, all these, like-

   6. SSSimon Sinek30:22

      Instead of memorizing the numbers-

   7. ATAngela Trimbur30:24

      Numbers

   8. SSSimon Sinek30:24

      ... and then-

   9. ATAngela Trimbur30:24

      Yeah

   10. SSSimon Sinek30:24

       ... instead of memorizing the beats and memorizing the moves, you play along with the story.

   11. ATAngela Trimbur30:29

       Exactly.

   12. SSSimon Sinek30:29

       And-

   13. ATAngela Trimbur30:29

       So it's, like, all storytelling.

   14. SSSimon Sinek30:31

       Right.

   15. ATAngela Trimbur30:31

       And there's all... It's not like, "Arabesque, complete pirouette." Like, it's like-

   16. SSSimon Sinek30:35

       Right

   17. ATAngela Trimbur30:35

       ... "Grab the web and spin," and it's spinning out of your butt.

   18. SSSimon Sinek30:38

       Right.

   19. ATAngela Trimbur30:38

       You know? Like, so-But there's also like a deepness to it. Like sometimes when I do that routine, like I'm actually crying because I feel like seen for the first time. Like-

   20. SSSimon Sinek30:47

       And that story is you.

   21. ATAngela Trimbur30:49

       And that story, yeah.

   22. SSSimon Sinek30:49

       I mean, I know you just made that story up, but that story is you. I mean-

   23. ATAngela Trimbur30:52

       Yeah

   24. SSSimon Sinek30:52

       ... you did the thing not for the likes and not for the follows.

   25. ATAngela Trimbur30:56

       Right.

   26. SSSimon Sinek30:56

       You did the thing for yourself. You did the thing to get over your depression. You did the thing for the joy.

   27. ATAngela Trimbur31:01

       Yeah.

   28. SSSimon Sinek31:02

       It just so happened that it went viral on the internet. It just so happened that there was a New York Times reporter in your class. It just so happened-

   29. ATAngela Trimbur31:09

       Right

   30. SSSimon Sinek31:09

       ... it just so happened, it just so happened.
10. 32:15 – 33:55

    True Classic: An Ad with Authenticity

    1. SSSimon Sinek32:15

       This episode is brought to you by True Classic. And if you've ever wondered why our ads feel different, it's because they are. We don't just read ad real. We have real conversations with real people and make it into content that actually matters. Let's go back.

    2. SPSpeaker32:31

       Okay.

    3. SSSimon Sinek32:31

       So you're a musician. Did you wanna be a professional musician?

    4. SPSpeaker32:34

       I wanted to be a music producer.

    5. SSSimon Sinek32:36

       Okay, so you wanted to be a music producer.

    6. SPSpeaker32:37

       I played poker for a living after I failed in music. I went to Vegas, and even though I was decent at poker, I realized very quickly that even though I was the best of my friends, I was the worst as a professional-

    7. SSSimon Sinek32:49

       Mm-hmm

    8. SPSpeaker32:49

       ... in the big leagues.

    9. SSSimon Sinek32:50

       Mm-hmm.

    10. SPSpeaker32:50

        If I were to go back and take one good thing that came out of poker, it was the ability to fail. Because, man, do you fail a lot in poker. Because even professionals that play for a living, they can go to streaks where they just lose for a month and a half, and they just cannot figure it out. But they have to pick themselves up and go back and lose again. Get up the next day, go lose again. And you just really get numb. 'Cause if, if, if you don't get numb to that feeling, you're never gonna succeed in poker. It's just like something you gotta get used to. It's a big part of really breaking through in that industry. So that was one of the positives that came out of it. I built really good entrepreneurial DNA because, as you know, when you're an entrepreneur, it's all you do is fail because it always leads you to the better answer, and we're always seeking the truth, and we're not afraid to be wrong. Ben and I will sit and argue for 30 minutes about something, and all we're after is the truth.

    11. SSSimon Sinek33:42

        Mm.

    12. SPSpeaker33:42

        You know, we don't care about our egos. We're just... We- that's what's really good. We're able to pivot on a dime if one of us brings up a good point, and I think if you instill that in the culture, it's really good for progress.

11. 33:55 – 38:27

    Art is for others

    1. SSSimon Sinek33:55

       We don't have to go too deep into it, but I think it's, y- y- what's, these kernels of ideas that you have that blossom.

    2. ATAngela Trimbur34:03

       Mm-hmm.

    3. SSSimon Sinek34:03

       You know, I guess they're seeds, not kernels, but these seeds blossom. Then you have summer camp, so now you're doing summer camp and bringing back all the silliness of going to summer camp when you're a kid.

    4. ATAngela Trimbur34:12

       Yeah.

    5. SSSimon Sinek34:12

       And you do a recital.

    6. ATAngela Trimbur34:13

       Yes.

    7. SSSimon Sinek34:14

       And it's called Recital.

    8. ATAngela Trimbur34:15

       Yeah.

    9. SSSimon Sinek34:15

       Like, you take your ballet students, and you book a venue.

    10. ATAngela Trimbur34:19

        Mm-hmm.

    11. SSSimon Sinek34:19

        You have a real stage with real audience.

    12. ATAngela Trimbur34:21

        Mm-hmm.

    13. SSSimon Sinek34:21

        And people buy real tickets.

    14. ATAngela Trimbur34:23

        Yep.

    15. SSSimon Sinek34:23

        And people come pay money to see... And it's usually family and friends, just like Recital.

    16. ATAngela Trimbur34:28

        Yep.

    17. SSSimon Sinek34:28

        And it's your students. And you said they take it so seriously.

    18. ATAngela Trimbur34:32

        Mm-hmm.

    19. SSSimon Sinek34:33

        And they practice and practice and practice, just like we did as little kids because-

    20. ATAngela Trimbur34:37

        Yes

    21. SSSimon Sinek34:37

        ... we're on stage for our friends and family.

    22. ATAngela Trimbur34:40

        Yes, and it has nothing to do with your career. And the more serious you take it-

    23. SSSimon Sinek34:43

        And you've got doctors and lawyers and artists and every-

    24. ATAngela Trimbur34:47

        Absolutely

    25. SSSimon Sinek34:47

        ... everything in your, in your class.

    26. ATAngela Trimbur34:48

        Not performers-

    27. SSSimon Sinek34:49

        Not performers

    28. ATAngela Trimbur34:49

        ... at all, really. Like, some people haven't even taken the stage. I, I realize that that's, like, part of it, so baller- if you're really a part of a ballet company that we claim to be, they're working towards something.

    29. SSSimon Sinek34:59

        Right.

    30. ATAngela Trimbur34:59

        So it gives us something to work towards. And there's this logic that I have from this too where I'm like, like through dance camp, there's new friendships that form. Through the recital, I get to cast a routine. So we do auditions, and the auditions are everybody makes it. You just have to audition. That's how you sign up for the recital. And you have to wear a number, and I, it's pur- it's purposely scary, but it's really not because the stakes are l- you already know you're, you got in. But they go through this thing together where they're like, "Oh, I'm so nervous. Like, why?" You know. And they're wearing the numbers, and they also still have their fake cigarettes, and then they, they audition. And then I really spend, like, so much time really thinking, like, "What routine for this person? I know this person. This person should have the spider storyline. I think that they could use that storyline as something they continue to work on."
12. 38:27 – 41:34

    Angela's favorite project

    1. SSSimon Sinek38:27

       [laughs] Tell me whether it's a specific class or a specific project, something you did over the course of these last few years that was beyond magical, like you absolutely loved being a part of. It doesn't mean it was easy, doesn't mean it was commercially successful or successful at all, however you wanna define it, but something that you were a part of that you absolutely loved, and if everything you did, if every project you did from this point on was like that one thing, you'd be the happiest person alive.

    2. ATAngela Trimbur38:56

       Like the recital?

    3. SSSimon Sinek38:57

       Anything. You can pick whatever you want.

    4. ATAngela Trimbur38:58

       I think the recital. I mean, that's the most recent thing that f- so that's just top of my mind.

    5. SSSimon Sinek39:02

       Is it this specific recital above all other past recitals that stood out more?

    6. ATAngela Trimbur39:06

       Well, um-

    7. SSSimon Sinek39:07

       'Cause you've done a few of them

    8. ATAngela Trimbur39:07

       ... this is just the second one. So the-

    9. SSSimon Sinek39:09

       Right

    10. ATAngela Trimbur39:09

        ... first one, I think we, we were all a little baby deer-legged with it.

    11. SSSimon Sinek39:14

        Mm-hmm.

    12. ATAngela Trimbur39:14

        And this year, the narratives got tighter, like regard- or, or the, they got deeper. There's, like, OG students that could kinda guide the new students, but the new students kinda remind the OG students what the excitement was and-

    13. SSSimon Sinek39:28

        Mm-hmm

    14. ATAngela Trimbur39:28

        ... why we're doing it. I don't know, there was just some sort of specific energy with it, but it was really, really challenging too because as a leader, people, they wanna share everything that comes up-

    15. SSSimon Sinek39:40

        Mm-hmm

    16. ATAngela Trimbur39:40

        ... and you hold space and you listen. This year, it had a lot of that energy, people being nervous, people, having to place people, front line, back line. Like, that's really tough. That, I almost, like, didn't wanna do the recital for that part because I'm like, "It's not a big deal. It's not about that, but this person does tell the story really well, and it-

    17. SSSimon Sinek39:58

        Yeah

    18. ATAngela Trimbur39:58

        ... makes everyone look really good because they're telling the story. And so that trickles to this person who maybe isn't as confident in facial telling stories yet. Like, there's popcorn reasons, like, and I have to tell, "It's not about the line placement. Please, like, it's not about that. We're all together. But also, yes, you are there." You know, I don't know. There was just a lot that came up, even for me, like having to ask myself and remind myself of, like, what am I standing for? Does it have to be this person's in the front and center and-

    19. SSSimon Sinek40:26

        So what, what, what was it about recital that if every project you do from this point on was like recital, you'd be the happiest person alive?

    20. ATAngela Trimbur40:33

        I think it's because I got to see people change.

    21. SSSimon Sinek40:35

        Oh.

    22. ATAngela Trimbur40:35

        Like, when from the beginning of the process, even, like, their first balletcore class to the recital, like, they have so many friends now. Their confidence levels are-

    23. SSSimon Sinek40:46

        Mm-hmm

    24. ATAngela Trimbur40:46

        ... skyrocketing. They're dressing-

    25. SSSimon Sinek40:47

        Mm-hmm

    26. ATAngela Trimbur40:47

        ... the way they, they've always wanted to dress. There's just something about it where I'm like, "This is what it's about." Like, it's about-

    27. SSSimon Sinek40:53

        Mm-hmm

    28. ATAngela Trimbur40:53

        ... the journey, doing, opening paths for people. And, like, when I watch, when I Cupid people and I see their friend, I see them hanging out outside of class, I'm like, "That's, I knew that one was gonna, they were gonna be friends."

    29. SSSimon Sinek41:03

        Mm-hmm.

    30. ATAngela Trimbur41:03

        There's just something so satisfying about seeing people coming out of their shell.
13. 41:34 – 47:09

    Angela's childhood memories

    1. SSSimon Sinek41:34

       Tell me an early, an early childhood memory, something specific that I can relate with you.

    2. ATAngela Trimbur41:39

       Okay. [laughs] Uh, happy childhood memory for anything I think of. I mean, I g- I, my mom pulled my sister and I out of school when we were, when I was in fifth grade, and so I was homeschooled. She became a Jehovah's Witness, and I kind of feel like we got, like, convinced to get homeschooled even though, like, we were promised a lot of things like, "You can graduate earlier. You can wear your pajamas, like, all day long." Like, I don't know, there were just things that were, oh, cool, but all of a sudden, like, no, you also have to be a Jehovah's Witness, and that's part of your schooling. Like, you have to go door to door. That's public speaking. You have to read the Bible. That's part, history. So all of a sudden, we were kind of, like, living a very trapped life. But my sister and I were best friends. We weren't allowed to hang out with anybody else really. We had only each other. And every day at 3:15, the bus stop was at the end of our driveway, and so we wanted to go back to school so bad. And so we would, like, at every day at 3:15, we'd, like, go, and we'd, like, watch the people get off the bus together. And I know it s- sounds like a sad memory, but that's just what popped up, like sitting with my sister, like, looking through the window at all the cool kids getting off the bus and, like, wishing we could be a part of it. [laughs] I don't know why that's a nice memory, but that's, like, a very vivid-

    3. SSSimon Sinek42:52

       But that's something you did frequently.

    4. ATAngela Trimbur42:54

       Yeah, almost every day.

    5. SSSimon Sinek42:54

       Is there, is there a specific memory that I can relive with you?

    6. ATAngela Trimbur42:57

       Well, um, for some reason this just popped up. Like, we didn't celebrate holidays or anything, and I remember being in my bedroom, like, so New Year's, I always would, like, had a fantasy about New Year's, and I'd just put the clock radio under my pillow and, like, listen to the countdown alone, like, through the clock radio and hearing, like, the neighbors celebrating. I don't know. Wow, these, these are a lot of memories of, like, fishbowl, like, stuck inside of a, a thing wishing you could be a part of something else. I don't know why they seem like sweet memories to me, but they're very, like, I don't know, times where I remember the most were when I'm self-soothing or something.

    7. SSSimon Sinek43:40

       But it, but but that's very connected to the other memory, right? Which is to the other, to the, to the recital experience, which is there is a fishbowl aspect to our lives, and there is a wishing we could go do something-

    8. ATAngela Trimbur43:50

       Mm-hmm

    9. SSSimon Sinek43:51

       ... or be someone-

    10. ATAngela Trimbur43:52

        Mm

    11. SSSimon Sinek43:53

        ... or change our-

    12. ATAngela Trimbur43:53

        That's true

    13. SSSimon Sinek43:54

        ... change our environment, change our surroundings, and feeling like we're behind the window pulling the curtain aside looking out at everyone-

    14. ATAngela Trimbur44:01

        Mm

    15. SSSimon Sinek44:01

        ... thinking, "Oh, if only." And then what you have done is, and you, you used these words, which is you cleared a path.

    16. ATAngela Trimbur44:09

        Mm-hmm.

    17. SSSimon Sinek44:09

        Which is you gave people, you know, y- everything you say is helping people through, out of, over the fishbowl. Your slightly guided dance parties-

    18. ATAngela Trimbur44:20

        Mm-hmm

    19. SSSimon Sinek44:20

        ... which is, "Come. Come, I'll show you."

    20. ATAngela Trimbur44:23

        Yeah.

    21. SSSimon Sinek44:23

        You know? "I'll show you the person you wanna be."

    22. ATAngela Trimbur44:25

        Mm-hmm.

    23. SSSimon Sinek44:25

        "That you can be."

    24. ATAngela Trimbur44:26

        Mm-hmm.

    25. SSSimon Sinek44:26

        And it's not just a, a dance class for amateurs who aren't dancers. You play the mean teacher. You're in a movie.

    26. ATAngela Trimbur44:35

        Right.

    27. SSSimon Sinek44:35

        Because if you think about it, we get our cues about the lives we wanna live, for better or for worse, watching TV, watching movies, looking, looking through the literal or proverbial window-

    28. ATAngela Trimbur44:45

        Mm-hmm

    29. SSSimon Sinek44:46

        ... through the fishbowl.

    30. ATAngela Trimbur44:47

        Mm-hmm.
14. 47:09 – 52:42

    Visible vs. Invisible Healing

    1. SSSimon Sinek47:09

       What's the difference between the healing we do that is visible and the healing we do that is invisible?

    2. ATAngela Trimbur47:14

       Hmm. Healing we do that is visible. What would be something in your mind that's a visible healing?

    3. SSSimon Sinek47:22

       Therapy.

    4. ATAngela Trimbur47:23

       Uh-huh. Okay. Um-

    5. SSSimon Sinek47:27

       Dance class.

    6. ATAngela Trimbur47:28

       I see. Okay. So I think invisible healing maybe are the life lessons. Like, you don't, we don't get to see life lessons on somebody. Um, we don't get to see, like, "Oh, now I see why I made that mistake," you know? Um, I think the healing just comes in, like, the aftershock of a situation you were in. Um, and we don't really see it, but you'll see it within yourself the next time something like that comes up and that you, "Oh, it doesn't, that doesn't sting as much," or, "I didn't go back to that, um, personality trait of this people-pleasing thing." I don't know. It feels like, um, you don't get to see the, the lessons on other people.

    7. SSSimon Sinek48:08

       Which is a reason why you should, we should throw ourselves into things.

    8. ATAngela Trimbur48:11

       Yeah.

    9. SSSimon Sinek48:11

       Because sometimes the invisible things that we don't really know that are gonna happen, and we may not be aware of them until later. They may not become visible-

    10. ATAngela Trimbur48:18

        Exactly. It all makes sense

    11. SSSimon Sinek48:18

        ... until you've gone through it.

    12. ATAngela Trimbur48:19

        Yeah.

    13. SSSimon Sinek48:20

        And so, as you said, you never wanna go through having cancer again.

    14. ATAngela Trimbur48:24

        Mm-hmm.

    15. SSSimon Sinek48:25

        But you like what happened as a result.

    16. ATAngela Trimbur48:28

        Yeah. I really do. I really, really do. I, I, I think all the time what, what would, it would be like. I mean, there's obviously things I s- I wish, like, um, I wish that I could have kids. I wish that sex wasn't painful. Like, there's, like, a lot of things where I'm like, "Ugh." It's not like I'm like, "Ooh, I'm in my best," like-

    17. SSSimon Sinek48:47

        Right

    18. ATAngela Trimbur48:48

        ... but it, from an emotional standpoint, I, I d- I definitely like my personality better. But yeah, there's a lot of things that I'm still like, "Ugh, fu-"

    19. ATAngela Trimbur48:57

        Ah, I remember that. But, um, yeah

    20. SSSimon Sinek49:01

        You are wonderful

    21. ATAngela Trimbur49:02

        [laughs]

    22. SSSimon Sinek49:02

        I'm so glad you came on. I think you, you're a, a, a path illuminator. I think you're a, a door opener

    23. ATAngela Trimbur49:12

        Mm-hmm

    24. SSSimon Sinek49:13

        I think you're a, "Let me pull the, let me pull the bushes aside and show you that there's a, a bit of a worn path that you, you can also walk down."

    25. ATAngela Trimbur49:22

        Yeah

    26. SSSimon Sinek49:22

        "You're not the, you're not, you're not the first one. You're not the trailblazer. Some- I'll show you."

    27. ATAngela Trimbur49:27

        Slightly guider

    28. SSSimon Sinek49:28

        Slightly g- a slightly guider

    29. ATAngela Trimbur49:29

        Yeah

    30. SSSimon Sinek49:30

        A guide slightlier

Episode duration: 52:43