The Privilege of Bad Experiences with NASA astronaut Jonny Kim | A Bit of Optimism Podcast

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   Station, this is Houston. Are you ready for the event?

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   Houston, Station. I am ready for the event.

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   Simon Sinek, this is Mission Control Houston. Please call Station for a voice check. [upbeat music]

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   When I was 13 years old, I had a dream. It was to go to Space Camp in Huntsville, Alabama. I had just seen the movie Space Camp, and it sparked all my childhood dreams to be an astronaut one day. And so I figured the first step was to go to Space Camp, and that's exactly what I did. And I remember when I came back, I was so proud I wore my flight suit to school the next day. Everyone made fun of me, this dorky kid in a public school walking around [laughs] in a light blue NASA flight suit. But secretly, I knew everyone was jealous. And my love of space and the space program NASA has never gone away. I've done every Lego set that has a NASA logo on it. I've got NASA stickers on stuff that I own for no other reason than I think it's cool. So when I was offered the opportunity to talk to astronaut Jonny Kim on the podcast, of course I leapt at it. But it gets better than that. I talk to him while he's in space. He is currently on the International Space Station, and the wonderful, fantastic people at NASA hooked up a Zoom call for us and allowed us to have a chat. What a thrill. What a thrill. Totally, totally nerded out. Jonny is someone remarkable and special, and if you think you've met an overachiever before, you haven't met Jonny Kim. He was a Navy SEAL with many combat tours. He was a combat medic, and it was the experiences he had in combat that inspired him to wanna serve even more. So he decided to become a doctor. But, of course, he went to Harvard. But, of course, that was still not enough, and now he's an astronaut. This guy is amazing. He's also one of the most humble people I've ever talked to. He refuses to give himself a pat on the back. He refuses to say that, that it was about him. He has immense gratitude to the world, and in particular, immense gratitude for the bumpy life that he had growing up. Jonny was raised in a household with an alcoholic father and, unfortunately, a lot of violence, and that is where this meek kid learned to stand up. But he wasn't just standing up against the violence. He was standing up to protect others, to protect those he loved. And it's this theme, the theme of love, that has continued to drive him to higher and higher levels, literally. This is A Bit of Optimism. [upbeat music] This episode is brought to you by True Classic. The way they became our sponsor is because I loved their T-shirts, and so we just called them up and asked them if they wanted to work together. And they said yes. So check out their clothes at trueclassic.com. It's good to see you, Jonny. Thanks for taking the time to do this. Oh, anytime. I've been looking forward to this, Simon. I think we're gonna have a great conversation. [laughs] Uh, I unfortunately have seen that meme and know what you're talking about. Um, I think there's a lot of... I think it's very comical and funny. Um, I do think, though, I, I th- I sometimes worry about the healthy aspects of comparison like that. You know, that common saying, "Comparison is the thief of joy." But also, I also think the part of my journey that's been really important for me has been being the best version of yourself and fighting for what you believe in, regardless of what the scale of what that might be or what that looks like. One of the things I find so fascinating about your childhood as well is, is it was not an easy one. And when we think about, you know, overcoming adversity and that adversity makes somebody stronger, it raises the question, you know, this young generation, you know, uh, much is written about, you know, uh, uh, helicopter parents and over-coddling, and it, and it raises the question, like, how important has adversity been to your own journey? I mean, because what you've accomplished is amazing, but how much is it balanced off by the adversity that you, that you've experienced?

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   I'm a firm believer that all of us are the summation of our experiences, whether they're good or bad. You know, I think there's innate quality traits within us of how we interpret some of those experiences, whether they're good and bad, how we absorb them, and how that kinda shapes us into who we are. But I also think it's really important about the, the extrinsic factors, not just the intrinsic ones, of whether you had a good parent or a coach or a mentor or friend, someone in your life to kind of shape you or bump you when you were going a little bit off course. So to answer your question, I firmly believe I wouldn't be where I am today if it wasn't for a lot of the adversity and the challenges, both the good and the bad ones. And, uh, but I'd say that it's like the, the, the right challenges and the right adversities came to me at a point in my life when I needed them, but I also had at least someone there or, or something at the end of the light working towards where it kinda kept me whole and kept me straight. And that's not to say I didn't bump off the path. I certainly have. And, uh, but I think that's part of that human experience that makes us who we are.

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   Who was that person for you?

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   It's taken the shape of different people over the course of my lifetime. At really different phases of my life, I'd say the one that sticks out for me, certainly in my adolescence, was my mom. You know, my mom gave up so much of her own life. I mean, she stayed in a situation that was really harmful for her, that was h- that was hard for her children. The unconditional love she had for her children, it stuck with me. And, uh, and she's certainly the, the most strongest person that I know of. And, you know, I've been really lucky to have people like my mom or other people in my life that were just there at the right time.

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   You know, it's such an interesting thought, whether it's a, a mother or father or a mentor, a coach, a, a, a teacher. You know, somebody who sees something in us and invests so much in us, it's, I think it's such an interesting, uh, thought, which is we, we, one of the reasons we wanna do well and one of the reasons we don't wanna be a screw-up is because we don't wanna let them down. We don't wanna, like, show that their investment in us and belief in us was, was, was in vain. I find that relationship, the desire to, uh, to make someone proud, it's, it's really fascinating to me. That it's not just inner drive, but also it's the relationship of the person who invested in us.

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   So I, I think that is, can be certainly a very powerful drive. I, and I would be lying to tell you if I didn't have that drive, especially early in my life, where a lot of my motivating factors were almost proving other people wrong.

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    Mm.

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    Or like for ex- instance, becoming a SEAL. Like, I, there were a lot of people that told me straight up that that was a bad idea, I wouldn't make it, and a part of me was proving other people that I could do it, and also to myself, proving that I could do it. But as I've gotten older and more mature, I really have shed those extrinsic factors of proving other people or, or doing things for other people 'cause I, I don't think that's a really sustainable way to a healthy life, a healthy whole life. And, uh, and so I, I'm really careful about motivation and why you do things. And because the why you do things is the most important. I mean, Simon, I know you [laughs] yourself know this very, very well. In doing something for someone else's approval is, I think, a surefire way to, to disappointment, to failure. It's not sustainable in my opinion. But it is absolutely powerful in, in, in the right amount of doses at the right times in your life.

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    Yeah. But I think, I mean, this is interesting because I think there's a nuance, right? There's a, I think there's a difference between doing for, something for someone's approval and, and wanting to make proud the person who invested in you. You know, if y- y- like when we go s- you know, see our kids graduate and we sit in the audience, we feel proud, and the person graduating, you know, is proud, too, but also i- is grateful. I think that what I'm talking about is some sort of gratitude, um, uh, because we have these human connections. A- and this is what I find so interesting, which is how much of it is just us and our drive and our ambition? And because I know you're service oriented. I mean, I, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've read things you've said before, how, how driven you are to service. And sort of you could look at your own career path, it's y- sort of finding bigger and bolder ways to serve.

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    Yeah, I, I think it's a subtle difference. You're right. And, uh, that human connection is really important. I think human connection is one of the most important things we need to explore in our life. And that's actually what I find the most fascinating about the International Space Station is, is how it connects so many different people from different walks of life and backgrounds.

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    Mm. Mm.

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    I mean, just earlier this week, we had a crew of four, the Axiom 4 crew, and so we had 11 people on board from six different countries and from 11 different backgrounds, yet we were breaking bread together and sharing stories and, and f- and realizing that we had so much more in common than differences.

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    Every astronaut I know has talked about this. It's not just the overview effect of looking down and saying, "Why can't we all get along?" 'cause you don't see borders, but you experience it when the people come to visit, which is it must be one of the most human experiences where you don't see each other based on, you know, our, our different divides based on our nations, but you're all human beings and common experience, and, and common risk for that matter, too. I mean, you're, you're in austere conditions up there.

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    Absolutely. And, uh, if we could find a way to relay these experiences down on Earth, you know, I think a l- the world would be a lot better place if we had more empathy and understanding and a drive to find those commonalities amongst us.

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    Can you tell me a specific story, something throughout your career at any point, whether it was, you know, at, at any point, at any, at any of the, the, the many jobs you had, that, you know, you look back at that one specific thing and you think, "Wow, that, that was incredible." Whether it was successful or, or not, you know, whether it was a mission success or a mission failure is, it doesn't matter, but when you look back you see that it was a defining moment in your life. Can you tell me a specific story of something you've gone through?

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    I have a few of those. I, I think, uh, the one that's probably the most true is probably just a little outside the scope of the conversation we have here today, but, uh, the one I'll, I will share with you was being unconfident in my abilities. You know, I think insecurity is something that we've all dealt with, and it's a part of our, it's a part of being human. And certainly I think a little tinge of healthy insecurity keeps the humility in check, or keeps the ego in check. And, uh, one of the most formative experiences of my life was being able to serve overseas as a combat medic. And regardless of who the person was when they were hurt, um, it was my job to save them. And having that ill opportunity, in particular, to try and save some of my friends left a really impact on me. I mean, it, it's what spurred me to-... kind of continue that level of service at a higher level for medicine. That's why I wanted to be a physician. Um, watching my friends get injured and, uh, and doing my best to help. And I, that's something that's always stuck with me. It's that kind of privilege of experience, and I, I say that really carefully, privilege. You know, privilege of just having bad experiences, but good experiences, formative experiences, challenging, worst day of your life type of experiences. If you can come out of that on the other end stronger and more compassionate and empathetic, it's a real superpower. And, and I think I've been very privileged to have had a lot of those unique type of experiences throughout my life, and that's shaped me into the person I am today. And so that's almost like a moral obli- obligation I find to kind of share that empathy and that experience, uh, among, amongst us so that we can make this world a better place.

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    Hmm. The privilege of bad experience. I'm so taken by that phrase. You know, that, that, uh, that bad experiences, though they're awful in the moment, I think anyone who's, who's been shaped by them looks back and say, "I hated every moment of that, but I'm glad it happened."

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    Yeah. You know, I, it, it's, I, I think it requires a lot of context 'cause off the face of it, if you heard the privilege of bad experience [laughs] you'd be like, "What are you talking about? That's, uh, that's, that's terrible." And, and I don't mean to diminish the kind of hurt people have-

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    Hmm

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    ... from having bad experiences.

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    Hmm.

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    I'm just talking about if you happen to be one of the lucky ones-

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    Hmm

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    ... that can come out of a bad experience for whatever reason, maybe because you had a, the right mentor in your life, or you had the right intrinsic perspective to, to reshape that for a good, whatever it is, sublimation. But it is indeed a privilege if you can come out of a bad experience with a new set of eyes to do good, and I think those are stories really, really worth sharing.

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    What was the specific story when I asked you of something that you look back and you say, "That really was, that really molded me or contributed to molding me into who the person I am today," what was the specific story that you were gonna tell that you said was slightly to the side?

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    [laughs]

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    Just 'cause you're in space, I'm not gonna let you off the hook.

Episode duration: 26:06