Joe Rogan Experience #2477 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
Joe Rogan (host), Joe Rogan (host), Rick Perry (guest), W. Bryan Hubbard (guest), Joe Rogan (host), Joe Rogan (host)
In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, featuring Joe Rogan and Joe Rogan, Joe Rogan Experience #2477 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard explores texas commits $100M to ibogaine FDA trials for addiction, trauma Hubbard reports Texas will invest $100 million to fund the Texas Ibogaine Initiative, aiming to run a unified FDA drug-development trial and accelerate ibogaine toward approval for addiction and trauma-related conditions.
Texas commits $100M to ibogaine FDA trials for addiction, trauma
Hubbard reports Texas will invest $100 million to fund the Texas Ibogaine Initiative, aiming to run a unified FDA drug-development trial and accelerate ibogaine toward approval for addiction and trauma-related conditions.
The guests argue ibogaine uniquely “interrupts” substance dependence (opioids, alcohol, stimulants, nicotine) and may support recovery from PTSD/TBI and other neurological disorders, citing open-label history, a Stanford veteran study, and anecdotal cases.
Rick Perry explains his shift from traditional anti-drug politics to psychedelic advocacy through firsthand exposure to veterans’ suicidality and addiction, framing the effort as a moral obligation to warfighters and families harmed by the opioid crisis.
They outline an expanding national political coalition—multiple states and tribal nations proposing legislation/appropriations—to partner with Texas and pressure federal agencies to reschedule ibogaine and allow broader access pathways.
The conversation widens into critiques of the War on Drugs, pharmaceutical incentives, bureaucratic inertia, and a spiritual framing that psychedelics can catalyze personal meaning-making and social cohesion in an era of technological change.
Key Takeaways
Texas is positioned as the national hub for ibogaine drug development.
Hubbard says Texas moved from a proposed $50M public-private plan to a fully state-funded $100M effort to run a unified FDA pathway, intended to become the centerpiece trial other states can join.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
Political persuasion hinged on veteran testimonies and “nonpartisan” public health framing.
The Luttrell brothers’ personal ibogaine stories are presented as pivotal in opening Texas leadership to the initiative, shifting the narrative from counterculture drug politics to warfighter care and crisis response.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
The guests claim ibogaine’s standout value is rapid disruption of physiological dependence.
They repeatedly emphasize a 48–72 hour withdrawal/interruption window and contrast it with long abstinence timelines, arguing this makes ibogaine categorically different from standard addiction treatment (while acknowledging unpleasant acute effects).
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
Brain-health claims are central but remain scientifically contested and a key reason for large trials.
Perry shares his own imaging anecdotes (improved prefrontal activity; reduced atrophy), and they cite Stanford vet work; they argue rigorous, longitudinal neuroimaging studies are needed to validate mechanisms, durability, and who benefits.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
A multi-state strategy is designed to bypass federal inertia and force coordinated FDA engagement.
They describe recruiting legislators across many states, using model bills and appropriations to create an “unstoppable external force” that funds and politically supports one trial rather than fragmented efforts.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
Regulatory leverage points include rescheduling and Right-to-Try interpretation.
They argue ibogaine does not fit Schedule I criteria (non-addictive, medical potential) and claim DEA is improperly excluding Schedule I drugs from Right-to-Try; they call for executive action and agency directives to accelerate access after Phase 1.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
The movement mixes medical claims with an explicit spiritual/values narrative.
Hubbard and Perry assert ibogaine (and psychedelics broadly) can catalyze meaning, reduce despair, and affirm “human divinity,” and they position this as culturally strategic—especially for skeptical religious/conservative audiences.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
Notable Quotes
“I can confirm that the great state of Texas is going to fully fund... a full $100 million to launch the development of Ibogaine all the way through the FDA's drug development process.”
— W. Bryan Hubbard
“Their lives are not worth more than my reputation.”
— Rick Perry
“Ibogaine fits neither of those. Ibogaine is not an addictive compound... It's also absolutely not a recreational compound.”
— Rick Perry / Joe Rogan
“You can get eighty-five percent of the people who are hooked on opioids clean in seventy-two hours.”
— Rick Perry
“This is an emancipation movement for the mind, body, and soul of every human being... lethally estranged from their own spirituality.”
— W. Bryan Hubbard
Questions Answered in This Episode
What specifically will Texas’ $100M fund (Phase 1/2/3 design, endpoints, sites, timelines), and who will run the trial operationally?
Hubbard reports Texas will invest $100 million to fund the Texas Ibogaine Initiative, aiming to run a unified FDA drug-development trial and accelerate ibogaine toward approval for addiction and trauma-related conditions.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
Which published, peer-reviewed human studies best support the “48–72 hour interruption” and “two-dose ~98%” claims, and what are the limitations of that evidence?
The guests argue ibogaine uniquely “interrupts” substance dependence (opioids, alcohol, stimulants, nicotine) and may support recovery from PTSD/TBI and other neurological disorders, citing open-label history, a Stanford veteran study, and anecdotal cases.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
Ibogaine carries known cardiac risks (e.g., QT prolongation): what exact safety protocols, screening criteria, and emergency capabilities will the Texas trial require?
Rick Perry explains his shift from traditional anti-drug politics to psychedelic advocacy through firsthand exposure to veterans’ suicidality and addiction, framing the effort as a moral obligation to warfighters and families harmed by the opioid crisis.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
How will the initiative prevent “clinic gold rush” dynamics—unregulated domestic offerings, adulterated supply, or coercive/unsafe settings—while access remains constrained?
They outline an expanding national political coalition—multiple states and tribal nations proposing legislation/appropriations—to partner with Texas and pressure federal agencies to reschedule ibogaine and allow broader access pathways.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
If DEA rescheduling doesn’t happen, what is the realistic pathway to FDA approval and post-approval access given Schedule I manufacturing, transport, and prescribing barriers?
The conversation widens into critiques of the War on Drugs, pharmaceutical incentives, bureaucratic inertia, and a spiritual framing that psychedelics can catalyze personal meaning-making and social cohesion in an era of technological change.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
Transcript Preview
[upbeat music] Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat music] Gentlemen, great to s-- Yeah, put 'em on. Slap 'em on. What's happening? Good to see you, gentlemen, again.
Taking off.
Good to see youse, Will.
One more time.
Yeah, one more time.
Yeah.
So, uh, what is the latest? Give me the latest. Where are we at?
Why don't you take it, Bryan? You just kinda-
Yeah.
You, you are the, uh, you're the most current on where we are, what's going on. Man, there has been a lot of stuff happen in the 15 months since we were here.
Yeah.
I mean, like, stunning amount of stuff. So let's not waste any time. Tell him where we're at.
All right. Well, the last time we came to visit with you, I believe, was on December the 27th of 2024. We were just on the front end of having organized 30 committed Texans whose own families had had experiences related to trauma, addiction, alcoholism, and the wounds of war, who, after hearing a plan that was developed for the state of Kentucky to bring Ibogaine to the American people as an FDA-approved medication and breakthrough treatment for addiction and trauma, committed themselves to using their time, their talent, and their network to achieve what had never been done before, and that was to convince an individual state to undertake drug development to create a therapeutic medical breakthrough for public health crises within its borders that are representative of the national reality. After you released the interview with us on January 2nd, 2025, we pursued a five-and-a-half-month blistering campaign to convince 188 blank-slate Texas legislators to fund the single largest psychedelic research and medical development project in history, that being the $50 million Texas Ibogaine Initiative. We had the assistance of some in-state allies, one of which was Texans for Greater Mental Health, led by a dear friend and brother of mine, Logan Davidson, who was my right hand, going to meet with legislators continuously while I set up shop at a hotel here in Houston and lived here just about part-time, wearing the shoe leather off, sweating, and making sure that everybody who needed to be introduced, educated, and motivated to get behind this would do so. At the end of this five and a half months, we secured the votes of, yes, of 181 out of 188 legislators between the Texas House of Representatives and State Senate. There was one individual who we had to persuade at the 11th hour to get behind this project. On May the 14th, 2025, just 36 hours before the Texas budget was finalized, this bill that would create the first unified FDA drug development trial with Ibogaine in U.S. history was not funded. I woke up that morning, and I'm not some... I believe very much in keeping your prayers in the closet, as Jesus taught, and not getting out there parading about it. But on that morning, uh, I got a call, and it was, "Hey, we're getting to the 11th hour. We don't have money to secure this. It may not make it. We've done everything that we can." And I just, I literally got down on my hands and knees and said, "God, please let this happen. And if it cannot happen, help me understand why." Three hours later, I got a telephone call asking if I could go and meet with the Texas House Speaker and Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick. I went at 4:30 in the afternoon on May the 14th and spent an hour with these two gentlemen going back and forth about what this project was, why it was so existentially necessary for Texas and the country. And on Friday morning, May the 16th at 10:00 a.m., we got a text message from Lieutenant Governor Patrick confirming that he would approve and fully fund the Texas Ibogaine Initiative. As we walk in here today, literally just 10 minutes before we walked into your studio, I can confirm that the great state of Texas is going to fully fund the Texas Ibogaine Initiative, originally intended to be a public-private partnership, but now has decided on its own to commit a full $100 million to launch the development of Ibogaine all the way through the FDA's drug development process for the benefit of the American people, to do so on its own without any drug development partner, and to do it for the good of humanity.
Install uListen to search the full transcript and get AI-powered insights
Get Full TranscriptGet more from every podcast
AI summaries, searchable transcripts, and fact-checking. Free forever.
Add to Chrome