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Are Burn Multiples BS in an AI World? & Sam Altman Needs $1TRN of Energy

Jason Lemkin is one of the leading SaaS investors of the last decade with a portfolio including the likes of Algolia, Talkdesk, Owner, RevenueCat, Saleloft and more. Rory O’Driscoll is a General Partner @ Scale where he has led investments in category leaders such as Bill.com (BILL), Box (BOX), DocuSign (DOCU), and WalkMe (WKME), among others. ----------------------------------------------- In Today’s Episode We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 00:47 Understanding Burn Multiples and Capital Efficiency in an AI World 12:57 What Metrics Founders Need to Focus on in a World of AI 20:59 The Role of Kingmakers in Venture Capital: Harvey, Abridge, Profound 33:50 Klarna, Figma, Stubhub, all Down: Are Public Markets Turning? 42:35 How Can We Fund the $1TRN Sam Altman Needs for Energy 01:00:44 FiveTran and DBT: Is the Wave of Consolidation About to Begin? 01:09:04 Does Private Equity Need to Change in a World of AI 01:16:52 Political Expression and Corporate Responsibility ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3j2KMcZ... Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Follow Harry Stebbings on X: / harrystebbings Follow Jason Lemkin on X: / jasonlk Follow Rory O’Driscoll on X: / rodriscoll Follow 20VC on Instagram: / 20vchq Follow 20VC on TikTok: / 20vc_tok Visit our Website: https://www.20vc.com Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://www.thetwentyminutevc.com/con... ----------------------------------------------- #20vc #harrystebbings #roryodriscoll #jasonlemkin #openai #klarna #figma #ai #burnmultiples

Rory O’DriscollguestJason LemkinguestHarry Stebbingshost
Oct 2, 20251h 24mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

AI growth warps metrics, funding dynamics, and trillion-dollar energy ambitions

  1. AI-native companies can look more capital-efficient by burn multiple despite worse cash flow margins because extreme growth swamps burn in the ratio.
  2. Burn multiples remain useful but are increasingly noisy because ARR quality, churn visibility, gross margin volatility, and CapEx (especially for AI) break prior SaaS assumptions.
  3. Founders with strong “classic” metrics can still struggle to raise in a winner-take-most, kingmaker-driven market where capital concentrates into a small number of perceived category leaders.
  4. Public-market comps and recent IPO performance (e.g., Figma, Klarna, StubHub) influence private valuations, with a risk that today’s generous baseline SaaS multiples could revert downward.
  5. Sam Altman’s stated ~$1T infrastructure/energy ambition may be partly “willed into existence,” but the panel expects economic constraints to force slower adoption or moderated CapEx plans even if AI leadership persists.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Burn multiple is not obsolete, but it’s no longer plug-and-play.

The metric still compares ARR added per dollar burned, but it assumes “real” ARR, durable retention, stable margins, and minimal CapEx—assumptions increasingly violated by AI pricing, trials, token costs, and infrastructure spend.

Hypergrowth can make heavy burners look “efficient” while still being fragile.

AI startups may post better burn multiples even with very negative cash flow margins because ARR is rising so fast, but absolute burn and cash runway still determine survival if funding windows close.

In 2025, fundraising is a haves-vs-have-nots market driven by breakout status, not just good metrics.

Founders can hit strong growth/efficiency heuristics and still be passed over if the TAM feels capped, the story isn’t perceived as category-leading, or investors believe the company is “years away” from an IPO-scale outcome.

If you can raise a decent round, take it—don’t optimize as if it’s 2021.

The panel argues many boards/VCs still give outdated “wait for better price” advice; for sub-scale companies, getting funded now and extending runway is often more rational than negotiating for marginal valuation gains.

“Non-AI” is becoming a narrative disadvantage because everyone is expected to have agents.

With most public software companies marketing themselves as AI companies, VCs increasingly assume agentic capability is table stakes, making differentiation and defensibility the real questions—not whether AI is present at all.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

There's only two ways of pricing a deal. You price a deal on hope or you price a deal on the multiple.

Rory O’Driscoll

I hear too many folks that are like, "Oh, you're triple, triple, double, double or better, you're, you're golden. Don't worry, kids." And I think that's terrible advice in 2025. Terrible advice.

Jason Lemkin

I think he is willing the trillion into existence.

Jason Lemkin

Whatever the prize is for being the best company in AI, OpenAI's gonna get that prize, right?

Rory O’Driscoll

A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money.

Rory O’Driscoll

Burn multiple definition and failure modesARR quality, churn masking, GAAP revenue checksAI-native growth vs free cash flow margins“Hope” vs “multiple” pricing in ventureKingmakers, mimetic investing, and funding deterring competitorsPublic comps, IPO pops, and multiple reversion riskFrontier AI compute/energy scale and funding feasibilityFivetran–dbt consolidation and portfolio “mash-ups”Tech PE model risk under rapid AI product shiftsCEO political expression vs corporate neutrality

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