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Bret Taylor: Why Pre-Training is for Morons & Companies Will Build Their Own Software | E1209

Bret Taylor is CEO and Co-Founder of Sierra, a conversational AI platform for businesses. Previously, he served as Co-CEO of Salesforce. Prior to Salesforce, Bret founded Quip and was CTO of Facebook. He started his career at Google, where he co-created Google Maps. Bret serves on the board of OpenAI. ----------------------------------------------- Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (06:46) Are We in Peak AI? (12:48) The Threat of AI Models Replacing Traditional Software (18:14) AI Services Companies & Their Role in Next-Gen Applications (29:05) Balancing AGI Pursuit and Product Development (34:04) Sustainable AI Business Models Amidst Commoditization & High Costs (41:35) Is There Ever a Stop to the Escalating Costs in AI Development? (44:36) AI Agents & the Future: The Decision to Build Sierra (54:38) Unanticipated Challenges in Building Sierra (55:38) Transitioning from Software Rules to Guardrails (01:04:37) Content Verification & Trust: Concerns in a Misinformation-Driven Era (01:08:55) Quick-Fire Round ----------------------------------------------- In Today’s Discussion with Bret Taylor: 1. The Biggest Misconceptions About AI Today: Does Bret believe we are in an AI bubble or not? Why does Bret believe it is BS that companies will all use AI to build their own software? What does no one realise about the cost of compute today in a world of AI? 2. Foundation Models: The Fastest Depreciating Asset in History? As a board member of OpenAI, does Bret agree that foundation models are the fastest depreciating asset in history? Will every application be subsumed by foundation models? What will be standalone? How does Bret think about the price dumping we are seeing in the foundation model landscape? Does Bret believe we will continue to see small foundation model companies (Character, Adept, Inflection) be acquired by larger incumbents? 3. The Biggest Opportunity in AI Today: The Death of the Phone + Website: What does Bret believe are the biggest opportunities in the application layer of AI today? Why does Bret put forward the case that we will continue to see the role of the phone reduce in consumer lives? How does AI make that happen? What does Bret mean when he says we are moving from a world of software rules to guardrails? What does AI mean for the future of websites? How does Bret expect consumers to interact with their favourite brands in 10 years? 4. Bret Taylor: Ask Me Anything: Zuck, Leadership, Fundraising: Bret has worked with Zuck, Tobi @ Shopify, Marc Benioff and more, what are his biggest lessons from each of them on great leadership? How did Bret come to choose Peter @ Benchmark to lead his first round? What advice does Bret have to other VCs on how to be a great VC? Bret is on the board of OpenAI, what have been his biggest lessons from OpenAI on what it takes to be a great board member? ----------------------------------------------- Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3j2KMcZTtgTNBKwtZBMHvl?si=85bc9196860e4466 Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-twenty-minute-vc-20vc-venture-capital-startup/id958230465 Follow Harry Stebbings on Twitter: https://twitter.com/HarryStebbings Follow Bret Taylor on Twitter: https://twitter.com/btaylor Follow 20VC on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/20vchq Follow 20VC on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@20vc_tok Visit our Website: https://www.20vc.com Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://www.thetwentyminutevc.com/contact ----------------------------------------------- #20vc #harrystebbings #brettaylor #sierra #openai #ai #venturecapital #founder #boardmember #fundraising #zuckerberg

Bret TaylorguestHarry Stebbingshost
Oct 1, 20241h 16mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Bret Taylor Explains AI Bubbles, Agents, And Why Models Commoditize

  1. Bret Taylor discusses the current AI boom, arguing it is a bubble that “rhymes” with the dot‑com era—wildly excessive in places yet still producing multiple trillion‑dollar and enduring enterprise companies.
  2. He is deeply skeptical of most startups doing their own model pre‑training, believing value will lie in applications and solutions, not in yet another frontier model, and that economics will favor companies whose costs are tied to inference, not massive training runs.
  3. Taylor predicts AI will mirror the cloud market, with a few hyperscalers and research labs owning the heavy infrastructure and models, while most companies buy specialized, SaaS‑like AI applications and customer‑facing agents rather than building everything themselves.
  4. He also describes his new company, Sierra, which builds branded conversational agents for consumer companies, and outlines how conversational, multimodal interfaces will become a primary way consumers interact with businesses, raising new design, governance, and change‑management challenges.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Treat AI like the cloud stack: few model providers, many solution vendors.

Taylor expects AI to stratify into infrastructure (hyperscalers and labs training frontier models), tools, and SaaS‑like applications, just as cloud did—most economic value will accrue to solution‑oriented products that solve concrete business problems.

Avoid pre‑training your own large models unless you’re a true AGI lab.

For almost all startups, spending heavily on pre‑training is like building your own data center in 2024: capital‑destructive and off‑mission compared with fine‑tuning strong existing models (proprietary or open source) to reach product–market fit.

Anchor your AI costs to inference usage, not massive upfront training bets.

Taylor argues sustainable AI businesses keep training costs modest and variable costs tied to inference, which in turn correlates with real customer usage and revenue; this sharply reduces the risk that sunk training costs never get paid back.

Expect foundation models to commoditize quickly while frontier models leapfrog.

Open models like LLaMA already provide GPT‑3.5‑class performance, making much of the “good enough” layer commodity; at the top end, performance will improve in step changes, but the bar to maintain a clear frontier lead keeps rising.

Every company will need a branded conversational agent, not just a website.

Taylor believes we’re entering an era where consumers primarily interact with companies through conversational, multimodal agents (text, voice, images) that handle support, sales, and transactions—Sierra is aimed at powering that shift for brands.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

I am inherently skeptical of companies doing pre‑training. Unless you are an AGI research lab, doing pre‑training on a model, I believe, is just burning capital.

Bret Taylor

Software is like a lawn, it needs to be tended to. It's not like you write software once and it just works forever.

Bret Taylor

The AI bubble will rhyme with the dot‑com bubble… We will look back and laugh at some of the excess, but I’m confident we will have a brand‑defining, likely trillion‑dollar consumer company come out of this.

Bret Taylor

We're going from the age of rules to the age of goals and guardrails.

Bret Taylor

In 1995, the way you existed digitally as a business was to have a website. In 2025, the way you will exist digitally is to have an AI agent.

Bret Taylor

The AI bubble and historical parallels with the dot‑com eraFoundation vs. frontier models and rapid model commoditizationWhy most companies should not do their own model pre‑trainingAI business models, cost structure, and hyperscaler CapExAI applications and customer‑facing agents as the next software layerConversational interfaces, multimodality, and the future of devicesLeadership, entrepreneurship, and how skills like leadership are learned

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