The Twenty Minute VC

Des Traynor: How to Survive and Thrive in a World of OpenAI | E1082

Des Traynor is a Co-Founder of Intercom, and has built and led many teams within the company, including Product, Marketing, and Customer Support. Today Des leads all Intercom’s R&D efforts, and parts of Intercom’s marketing. ----------------------------------------------- Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (00:54) Founding Stories and Personal Dreams (04:16) The Rise and Integration of AI (10:07) Business Strategies and Product Insights (17:12) AI Innovations in Business (24:17) Resource Allocation and Investment in AI (35:09) Economic Impacts of AI (39:00) Corporate Perspectives on AI (49:53) Tech Giants and AI (58:01) AI in the World of Investing and Marketing (01:15:20) Leadership and Future Predictions (01:24:15) Quick-Fire Round ----------------------------------------------- In Today’s Episode with Des We Discuss: 1. From Consultancy to Founding a Unicorn: What was the founding a-ha moment for Des and the team with Intercom? Why does Des believe that most startup advice is BS and outdated in 5 years? What does Des know now that he wishes he had known when he started? 2. LLMs: The World is Not Equal: What does Des mean when he says the world of LLMs is not equal? How do the different LLMs vary in quality, price and speciality? Does Des agree with Alex @ Nabla, “the best companies in the future will work with many LLMs at the same time and switch between them for different things”? To what extent does Des believe LLMs will be commoditized and it will be a race to the bottom? Would Des be a buyer of OpenAI at a $90BN price? Why not? 3. How to Survive in a World of OpenAI: What two simple questions will determine if Open AI will kill your existing business? What 3 criteria will determine if there is a new business to be built on top of OpenAI? What is the different between a thin layer on top of an LLM and a thick wrapper with real value? Which traditional incumbents are most vulnerable? What should they do in this new world? How long does it take for incumbents to really be impacted? 4. The Titans of Tech: Who Wins: Why does Des believe that Apple could be a massive winner in the next wave of AI? Why does Des believe that Google have not been impressive and failed to keep pace? Why does Des think OpenAI should be wary of Amazon? What could they do to threaten them? What opportunity does Facebook have here? How could Instagram and WhatsApp win? 5. Startup and Investing 101: Why does Des believe that every founder should write a blog post per week? Why does Des believe that most B2B marketing sucks? What makes great B2B marketing? What are Des’ biggest lessons from the Hopin journey? How has Des’ angel investing changed in the last year with the rise of AI? ---------------------------------------------- Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3j2KMcZTtgTNBKwtZBMHvl?si=85bc9196860e4466 Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-twenty-minute-vc-20vc-venture-capital-startup/id958230465 Follow Harry Stebbings on Twitter: https://twitter.com/HarryStebbings Follow Des Traynor on Twitter: https://twitter.com/destraynor Follow 20VC on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/20vchq Follow 20VC on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@20vc_tok Visit our Website: https://www.20vc.com Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://www.thetwentyminutevc.com/contact ----------------------------------------------- #VentureCapital #DesTraynor #Intercom #HarryStebbings

Des TraynorguestHarry Stebbingshost

Nov 14, 20231h 32mWatch on YouTube ↗

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Des Traynor on AI Moats, Thick Wrappers, and Surviving OpenAI

Des Traynor, co-founder of Intercom, explains how AI is fundamentally reshaping customer support and why many “AI-first” claims are superficial if they don’t change the underlying workflow. He distinguishes “thin wrappers” around LLMs from “thick wrappers” that solve an entire user workflow end-to-end, arguing that the latter will capture durable value. Traynor discusses Intercom’s AI chatbot Fin, how they evaluate and switch between LLMs, and why commoditization of models would actually benefit application-layer companies. He also explores who wins in an AI world (startups vs incumbents), how pricing, margins, culture, and marketing must adapt, and why most B2B marketing and AI features are still largely bullshit.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Being truly “AI-first” requires reimagining the workflow, not sprinkling features.

Traynor argues most products claiming to be AI-first are unchanged at their core; real AI-first products redesign the job-to-be-done (like customer support) so that AI performs core workflows rather than just assistive add-ons.

Thick wrappers around LLMs will capture more value than thin wrappers.

A thin wrapper is a quick demo (e.g., ‘paste URL, answer questions’); a thick wrapper handles integration, permissions, reporting, collaboration, approvals, and end-to-end workflows that OpenAI will never go deep on—this is where defensible product value accrues.

Don’t build where OpenAI (or platforms) will hit “minimum viable good enough.”

Traynor likens chasing small gaps in a platform to picking coins on train tracks; anything that looks like a generic capability—simple chatbots, basic wealth advice, generic tools—will eventually be absorbed by foundational providers.

AI will increase startup mortality and also kill many incumbents’ products.

Many AI startups will die either because they’re thin wrappers or because margins are eaten by LLM costs, while incumbents whose workflows are easily automated (e.g., some ad-ops or analytics tools) will be outcompeted by AI-native redesigns.

Future SaaS pricing will shift from per-seat to pricing on work done.

As AI replaces or augments human work, Traynor expects pricing models to move toward value-based or consumption models tied to outcomes (e.g., tickets resolved, assets created), not headcount.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

OpenAI will hit some sort of minimum viable ‘what’s good enough for everyone.’ You’re never gonna make money filling in the gaps in a platform.

— Des Traynor

There’s a massive difference between a thin science-fair tech demo and an actual fully commercialized product.

— Des Traynor

If you were to build a customer support solution today, you’d build it totally different than when Zendesk was started in 2007.

— Des Traynor

Advice is almost out of date by the time it’s ‘best practice.’

— Des Traynor

You can’t listen to your customers if they’re using your competitor.

— Des Traynor

Origins and evolution of Intercom and messaging-based customer supportWhat “AI-first” really means vs superficial AI featuresThin vs thick wrappers on LLMs and where value accruesIntercom’s AI strategy, Fin, and choosing between LLM providersCommoditization of LLMs, compute costs, and infra vs application valueImpact of AI on incumbents vs startups and product strategyB2B marketing, content strategy, and lessons from scaling Intercom

High quality AI-generated summary created from speaker-labeled transcript.

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.