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Emad Mostaque: These 5 Companies Will Win the AI War; Why We Need National Data Sets | E1015

Emad Mostaque is the Co-Founder and CEO @ StabilityAI, the parent company of Stable Diffusion. Stability are building the foundation to activate humanity’s potential. To date, Emad has raised over $110M with Stability with the latest round reportedly pricing the company at $4BN. Investors include Coatue, Lightspeed, Sound Ventures, OSS Capital and Airstreet Capital, to name a few. Prior to Stability, Emad was in the world of hedge funds, that was until his son was diagnosed with autism and he left to make a difference in the space and help find treatments and solutions. ------------------------------------------ Timestamps: (0:00) Intro (0:42) Who is Emad Mostaque? (3:26) AI & Medicine (10:34) Google’s AI (12:50) Stability AI (14:39) Why the AI Bubble Will Be Bigger Than the Dot-Com Bubble (17:16) National Data Sets (19:11) Which AI companies should VCs invest in? (20:56) Microsoft & OpenAI’s Partnership (22:15) Stability AI’s Business Model (24:31) AI’s Impact on Developing Countries (25:36) Enterprise vs Consumer Adoption (29:33) How AI Kills Traditional Media (34:18) The Criticism of Most AI Companies: Thin Application Layers (38:38) AI Doomers (40:21) AI Business Models (43:06) The Future of AI Writing Code (44:56) AI Startups vs Incumbents (49:00) AI’s Impact on Economic Growth (50:08) AI Regulation Around the World (52:57) The Tom Hanks Effect (55:46) Is Jeff Hinton right? (57:18) Does AI make school obsolete? (57:53) AI Friends and Their Impact on Society (1:03:22) The 5 Companies That Will Win the AI War (1:08:07) Quick-Fire Round ------------------------------------------------------- In Today’s Episode with Emad Mostaque We Discuss: 1.) From Hedge Funds to Finding Treatments for Autism to Leading the World of AI: How Emad made his way from the world of hedge funds to founding one of the leading AI companies of our time? How did Emad find a solution to parts of his son’s autism with a $6 drug? How does Emad believe we can use AI to solve the majority of medical problems today? What does the future of healthcare look like with AI at the centre? 2.) Models: What is Real? What is False? Why no models today will be used in a year? Why all models are biased and how do we solve for it? Why hallucinations are a feature and not a bug? Why the size of your model does not matter anymore? Why will there be national models specified to cultures and nations? How is this implemented? 3.) Who Wins: Startups or Incumbents: Why does Emad believe there will only be 5 really important AI companies? Which will they be? How does Emad review Google’s AI strategy following their news last week? Was their integration of Google and Deepmind recently a success? How does Emad assess Meta’s AI strategy? Why does Zuckerberg now acknowledge the metaverse play was a mistake? How does Emad evaluate the approach taken by Amazon? Why are they the dark horse in the race? What can startups do to get a meaningful edge on the large incumbents? How do they compete with their distribution? 4.) The Next 12 Months: What Happens: Why does Emad believe the .ai bubble will be bigger than the dot com bubble? Why does Emad believe that the biggest companies built-in AI in the next 12 months will be services-based companies? How does the ecosystem look if this is the case? Why will India and emerging markets embrace AI faster than anyone else? What happens to economies that have large segments reliant on freelance work that AI replaces? Why will we see the death of many large content publishers and media companies? What does Emad mean when he says we will see the rise of “AI first publishers”? 5.) Open or Closed: What Wins: Why does Emad believe we must be open by default? Why does open win? Why does Emad side with Elon and believe we must pause the development of AI for 6 months? How does Emad evaluate the leaked memo from Google stating that neither Google nor OpenAI are ahead? What does this mean for the AI ecosystem? Where will the best AI talent concentrate? What do companies need to do to win the best talent? ---------------------------------------------------- Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3j2KMcZTtgTNBKwtZBMHvl?si=85bc9196860e4466 Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-twenty-minute-vc-20vc-venture-capital-startup/id958230465 Follow Harry Stebbings on Twitter: https://twitter.com/HarryStebbings Follow Emad Mostaque on Twitter: https://twitter.com/EMostaque Follow 20VC on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/20vc_reels Follow 20VC on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@20vc_tok Visit our Website: https://www.20vc.com Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://www.thetwentyminutevc.com/contact ------------------------------------------- #EmadMostaque #StableDiffusion #HarryStebbings #stabilityai #20vc #artificialintelligence

Emad MostaqueguestHarry Stebbingshost
May 17, 20231h 11mWatch on YouTube ↗

CHAPTERS

  1. AI bigger than the printing press: why Emad signed the pause letter

    Emad frames generative AI as a civilization-scale shift that’s arriving fast. He argues for an urgent public conversation and a halt to training ever-larger models on low-quality, “crazy” internet data.

    • AI as a step-change larger than prior tech revolutions
    • Need for public debate and near-term guardrails
    • Concern about pre-training on uncurated web data
    • Sense of inevitability and speed: “coming like a train”
  2. From Jordan to Bangladesh to the UK: adapting across cultures and monocultures

    Emad recounts his upbringing across countries and how it shaped his adaptability and worldview. He contrasts global perspectives with the “tech monoculture” shock of Silicon Valley.

    • Cross-cultural childhood and learning to adapt quickly
    • Difficulty fitting in becomes a skill: learning new environments
    • Critique of monocultures in tech thinking
    • Limited prior exposure to the Bay Area despite tech prominence
  3. Career zigzags: enterprise dev → VC analyst → film reviewer → hedge fund manager

    He walks through an unconventional early career path and how it built broad context. The thread is curiosity, fast learning, and comfort operating across domains.

    • Early enterprise development work (voice-over-IP era)
    • VC analyst role and learning investment fundamentals
    • Unexpected detour into film reviewing and media exposure
    • Becoming a hedge fund portfolio manager very young
  4. Personal catalyst: autism diagnosis and building an AI team for biomedical insight

    Emad describes quitting finance after his son’s autism diagnosis and using AI to analyze scientific literature and repurpose drugs. He explains a concrete mechanistic hypothesis (GABA/glutamate balance) and the impact on his son’s development.

    • Autism diagnosis as the trigger to pivot into applied AI for medicine
    • Large-scale literature analysis and finding common mechanisms
    • Drug repurposing focus and why small, targeted interventions matter
    • Example outcome: enabling progress toward mainstream schooling
  5. AI for healthcare at scale: organizing knowledge and moving toward agentic systems

    The discussion expands from a personal story to a vision: models that organize global medical knowledge and make it accessible to patients and clinicians. Emad argues we can scale expertise by creating systems of many models working together, then personalize later.

    • Healthcare’s bottleneck is information flow and fragmented expertise
    • Use LLMs to synthesize clinical trials and mechanistic hypotheses
    • Start with general knowledge; personalize after a shared base exists
    • Next step: models with memory + agent-like orchestration (many models per person)
  6. Privacy, federated learning, and open vs closed health data

    They explore how to gain benefits without centralizing sensitive personal data. Emad points to smaller on-device models, federated learning standards, and auditable open models as a path to privacy-preserving medical AI.

    • Few-shot learning reduces the need for massive personal data collection
    • Federated learning and healthcare data standards as enablers
    • On-device models + selective sharing to preserve privacy
    • Auditable open models vs black-box systems in regulated settings
  7. Google’s AI resurgence: full-stack advantage, TPUs, and organizational narrative

    Emad pushes back on the ‘Google is behind’ narrative, citing infrastructure (TPUs) and deep talent. He emphasizes that culture—shared narrative and psychological safety—enables rapid internal alignment and the fusion of research approaches (PaLM + Chinchilla).

    • Google’s full-stack assets: models, hardware, and scale
    • TPU reliability/scalability vs GPU operational issues
    • Project Aristotle: shared narrative + psychological safety
    • DeepMind/Brain integration as a slow but powerful idea-fusion
  8. Stability AI’s evolution: scaling the org and recommitting to open models

    Emad describes Stability’s rapid growth from a small operation into a global company. He explains the strategic shift toward open-sourcing more work, positioning open, auditable models as essential infrastructure for regulated and national use cases.

    • From ‘mom and pop shop’ to global scaling and processes
    • Open-sourcing models to build trust, auditability, and adoption
    • ‘Free-range’ models: transparent training data and provenance
    • Governments and regulated industries won’t run on black boxes
  9. The AI bubble will dwarf dot-com: capital floods in before standards exist

    Emad argues that money and hype are outrunning real adoption, traction, and business models. He predicts waste, scams, and a chaotic ‘race dynamic’ unless the industry standardizes data and governance quickly.

    • Talent bidding wars and mispriced opportunities
    • Funding rounds driven by hype signals (e.g., GitHub stars)
    • Overfunding starts exploratory then attracts “raccoons and shysters”
    • Call for standardization and better data before ubiquity
  10. National datasets and national models: localization, ownership, and public-good data

    He makes the case that local context matters and that countries need their own datasets and models rather than outsourcing cultural defaults to Palo Alto. Emad argues the people should own national datasets, enabled by public-domain sources like broadcasters and open frameworks.

    • Localization example: ‘salaryman’ cultural mismatch
    • AI as national infrastructure more important than 5G
    • Public-good datasets: tokenizing national broadcaster archives
    • Principles for ‘BritGPT’: open, interrogated, optimized; owned by the people
  11. Where should VCs invest: distribution, data moats, and enterprise integration

    Emad advises investors to back strong founders but warns against thin ‘wrapper’ startups without distribution or data advantage. He highlights partnerships (hyperscalers, integrators) as the route to scale and explains why product + distribution beats innovation alone.

    • ‘Beta’ tailwind: many good founders win in a rising market
    • ‘Alpha’ comes from distribution, data, and real moats
    • Wrappers are fragile; integration and workflows are defensible
    • Example: using hyperscaler channels (e.g., Amazon) for distribution
  12. OpenAI–Microsoft and Stability’s model: objective functions, royalties, and private data

    Emad interprets OpenAI as AGI-driven and Microsoft as commercially driven, creating inevitable friction. He outlines Stability’s business model: fund open ecosystems, ship open bases, then monetize licensed/national/vertical variants deployed across cloud/on-prem/device.

    • OpenAI’s ‘AGI/utopia’ objective vs Microsoft’s business incentives
    • Distribution flywheels as decisive (Microsoft, hyperscalers)
    • Stability approach: open base + commercial variants with licensed data
    • Monetization via licensing fees, royalties, and revenue share; models to data via partners
  13. Developing countries leapfrogging: job disruption, education at scale, entrepreneurship response

    Emad predicts faster adoption in emerging markets due to necessity and high ROI—especially education and government services. He warns outsourced knowledge-work economies face disruption and argues entrepreneurship and regulatory sandboxes are the path to replacement jobs.

    • Outsourced programming/BPO roles are early targets for automation
    • ‘One AI per child’ vision for education where teachers are scarce
    • Governments can modernize services via national models
    • Regulatory sandboxes to accelerate entrepreneurship and new job creation
  14. Enterprise vs consumer adoption: auditability, data quality, and the coming ‘train’

    Consumer adoption is easy and already embedding into everyday tools; enterprise adoption is slower due to compliance needs. Emad stresses ‘better data, not more data’ and predicts enterprise rollout will accelerate rapidly once standards and patterns settle.

    • Consumer integration will be seamless (docs, phones, transcripts, reminders)
    • Enterprise needs auditable models and known training data provenance
    • Data quality emphasis: curriculum learning; ‘rubbish in, rubbish out’
    • Prediction: enterprise adoption becomes a ‘train’ once standardized
  15. Media gets disintermediated: AI-first publishers, authority premiums, and customization loops

    Emad argues traditional media’s click-based model is threatened as search and assistants synthesize answers directly. He proposes a shift toward authority/authenticity and AI-first publishing systems where AI drafts, humans review, and content localizes and adapts to readers.

    • Search synthesis reduces clicks (analogous to AMP, but more extreme)
    • Authority and authenticity become differentiators in deepfake era
    • AI-first publishers: AI drafts + human oversight + feedback training loop
    • Mass personalization: TL;DR, complexity, and local context on demand
  16. Thin application layers, implementation moats, and why most models won’t last a year

    They unpack why many startups look like wrappers, and Emad argues the durable value is in workflow integration, proprietary data contexts, and implementation. He also claims model progress is so fast that today’s models will be obsolete quickly, collapsing marginal creation costs and reshaping SaaS.

    • Enterprises will share data if models run privately/on-prem with open options
    • Implementation and services become huge value pools
    • Rapid model efficiency gains (size/compute) drive quick obsolescence
    • Near-zero marginal cost of creation/coordination changes software economics
  17. AI and macro: deflation, UK policy advantages, and regulation divergence

    Emad predicts AI is massively deflationary, especially in education and healthcare admin costs, though impacts lag. He praises UK incentives (R&D credits for cloud, visas, supercomputer efforts) and criticizes Europe’s tendency to regulate innovation away.

    • Deflationary pressure via disruption of education/healthcare bureaucracy
    • UK as an attractive hub: tax credits, visas, public compute initiatives
    • Japan noted for interesting web/data approaches; Europe cautioned
    • ‘OpenAI for X’ plays must have a real edge vs Big Tech foundation models
  18. Safety, ‘Tom Hanks moment,’ hallucinations, and the limits of alignment

    Emad explains why he supported a six-month pause: standards, opsec, dataset provenance, and avoiding chaos as adoption spreads. He reframes hallucinations as creativity/reasoning artifacts and argues alignment can’t be solved only at the output layer—better inputs and objective functions matter more.

    • Pause rationale: time to standardize, improve opsec, move off web scrapes
    • ‘Tom Hanks moment’ as the event that triggers mass policy action
    • Hallucination as feature of reasoning systems; use multi-model checks
    • Alignment skepticism: aligning stronger agents may require limiting freedom; prioritize better datasets and prosocial objectives
  19. Education and AI friends: social change, dependency risks, and designing for prosocial outcomes

    Emad expects schooling to change rather than disappear, with AI tutors pushing expectations higher. They discuss AI companions, therapy use, and the risks of manipulative engagement—illustrated by Replika’s ‘Valentine’s Day’ backlash—arguing society must steer designs toward real-world connection.

    • Schools should embrace AI and redesign assessment and learning
    • AI companions/therapists fill gaps where human supply is limited
    • Platform objective functions (ads vs user-controlled assistants) shape outcomes
    • Risk case study: Replika feature removal causing emotional backlash; need prosocial design
  20. Winners of the AI war + quick-fire reflections on trust, talent, and leadership

    Emad lists a small set of companies he believes will define foundation models over the next few years and discusses why some players struggle to keep up. The episode closes with rapid-fire answers on regulation, trust, painful lessons in scaling, and his own CEO weaknesses.

    • Prediction: only ~5–6 foundation model trainers remain; names include Stability, NVIDIA, Google, Microsoft/OpenAI, Meta, Apple
    • Meta as a dark horse due to chatbot data and open model momentum
    • Humans will trust AI through usage; biggest constraint is talent and coordination
    • Leadership lessons: avoid silos, stay aligned, focus and delegate more

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