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Phil Carter: Growth Loops, CAC + LTV Benchmarks, Pricing, Discounts, Paywalls... | E1204

Phil Carter is one of the best growth leaders of the last decade helping world-class companies like Faire, Quizlet, and Ibotta accelerate their growth. Today, Phil is a growth advisor and angel investor who helps Seed – Series C consumer subscription businesses define their growth strategy. ----------------------------------------------- Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (01:36) Definition of Growth & Growth Team (04:36) The Right Time to Hire a Growth Team (09:00) Common Mistakes Startups Make Hiring First Growth Roles (10:51) Key Questions To Ask In Hiring (15:27) Example of a Failed A/B Test Leading to Success (18:13) Biggest Mistakes in Setting a Guiding User Metric for Growth (23:19) Challenges in Scaling AI Consumer Subscription Products (26:17) Impact of Market Saturation on CAC Over Time (30:52) Exploring Secondary Channels (41:49) Defining Core Value Promise for Consumer Subscription Businesses (47:59) The Role of Notifications as a Retention Mechanism (54:29) The Dilemma of Paywalls: Hard vs. Freemium Models (01:07:17) Evaluating the Effectiveness of Discounting Strategies (01:13:22) Quick-Fire Round ----------------------------------------------- In Today’s Episode with Phil Carter We Discuss: The Seven Core Levers to Win at Consumer Subscription 1. How to Optimize Subscription Pricing and Packaging: Step: - Single vs multiple subs tiers? - Monthly, weekly or annually? - How often should it be revisited? - Biggest mistakes companies make with pricing and packaging? 2. How to deliver immediate value through new user onboarding? Target Metrics: - Best tactics for delivering value in the shortest amount of time? - Biggest mistakes companies make in user onboarding? - Thoughts on the very long surveys companies like Noom make people fill out pre getting access to the product? 3. How to boost paid marketing efficiency by investing in desktop web flows? Target Metrics: - Why is now the time to be investing in desktop workflows? - What are the most effective and specific tactics to do so? 4. How to optimize paywall visibility and conversion? Target Metrics: - Why is paywall view rate so important? - What is good vs bad? - What are the most common places to trigger paywall? - Thoughts on hard paywall vs consumer value first? - Specific tactics to refine paywall design to maximize conversion? - Single biggest mistakes companies make when it comes to paywall conversion? 5. How to distinguish and emphasize premium value props? Target Metrics: - What are the most effective ways to do this? - Who does it best? Lessons from them? 6. How to leverage motivation tactics (stats, streaks, badges, leaderboards, notifications)? Target Metrics: - What is the most effective? - Do we not have notification overload? - What used to work but now does not work? - Who does this best? Why them? 7. How to leverage strategic discounts and promotions? Target Metrics: - What are the most effective discounting methods used? - What are the biggest mistakes companies make when using promos or discounts? - Who does it best? What do they do? ----------------------------------------------- Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3j2KMcZTtgTNBKwtZBMHvl?si=85bc9196860e4466 Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-twenty-minute-vc-20vc-venture-capital-startup/id958230465 Follow Harry Stebbings on Twitter: https://twitter.com/HarryStebbings Follow Phil Carter on Twitter: https://twitter.com/philgcarter Follow 20VC on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/20vchq Follow 20VC on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@20vc_tok Visit our Website: https://www.20vc.com Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://www.thetwentyminutevc.com/contact ----------------------------------------------- #20vc #harrystebbings #philcarter #elementalgrowth #founder #growthtips #subscription #lessonslearned

Phil CarterguestHarry Stebbingshost
Sep 19, 20241h 23mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Building Durable Consumer Subscription Growth: Loops, Pricing, And Retention

  1. Phil Carter breaks down why consumer subscription apps are easy to launch but brutally hard to scale, emphasizing the importance of unique, enduring value propositions and disciplined growth strategies. He explains how to think about growth teams, when to hire them, and why understanding your core growth loops and channels must precede scaling spend. The conversation dives deep into CAC/LTV dynamics, payback periods, retention benchmarks, pricing and packaging mistakes, and how to design effective paywalls, notifications, and onboarding flows. Throughout, Carter contrasts short‑term metric gains (e.g., spammy notifications, indiscriminate discounts, overreliance on Facebook) with practices that actually compound long‑term value.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Hire growth leaders after product–market fit, not before.

Before PMF you don’t yet know if you’re building the right product or using the right channels; bringing in a growth lead once PMF is evident ensures they can design the right experiments and team structure around known user value and working channels.

Map your growth loops and input metrics before scaling spend.

Understand exactly how users find, activate, convert, and retain (and via which loops like SEO, virality, or paid), then focus on the highest-leverage input metrics—trial start rate, trial conversion, activation, etc.—that most influence core outputs such as ARR and subscriber count.

Expect CAC to rise over time; design for fast payback.

As you move beyond high-intent early adopters and saturate channels (especially Facebook/Instagram), CACs almost inevitably climb; in consumer subscriptions, 6‑month payback is ‘good’ and ~1‑month is ‘great’, because high churn and low NRR leave little room for slow recovery.

Retention is the foundation; separate monthly and annual cohorts.

Monthly subs often lose >50% of users in three months while annuals lose >50% in year one; track them separately, watch for curve flattening or ‘smile’ reactivation, and aim for >50% of monthly subs lasting 6+ months and strong survival through two annual renewals.

Design paywalls for high view rate and context-appropriate aggression.

Early-stage apps should aim for >80% of installers seeing a paywall (ideally in session one), but whether that paywall is hard (no free use) or soft/freemium depends on price point, audience willingness to pay, substitutes available, and whether organic loops (like UGC or SEO) depend on free use.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

Oftentimes, the biggest wins come right on the heels of a failed A/B test.

Phil Carter

CACs, almost by definition, will go up over time.

Phil Carter

The average consumer subscription app is losing more than 50% of its annual subscribers in the first year and more than 50% of its monthly subscribers in the first three months.

Phil Carter

Consumer subscription apps are easy to launch, but hard to scale.

Phil Carter

If you build it, they will come is a myth that has been debunked and will continue to be debunked, because you really need to solve for distribution.

Phil Carter

Definition and role of modern growth teams in consumer businessesCAC, LTV, and payback benchmarks for consumer subscription appsRetention dynamics, subscriber churn, and building enduring value promisesGrowth loops, channels, and the shift from organic to paid acquisitionPricing, tiers, durations, and strategic discounting in subscriptionsPaywalls, onboarding flows, notifications, and gamification for conversion and engagementSeasonality, international expansion, and the venture-scale viability of consumer subscriptions

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