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Scooter Braun on Being Enough, Insecurity, Wealth, Investing, Fame, Marriage and Much More | E1002

From college party promoter to managing global stars to CEO and investor. Scott “Scooter” Braun is one of the most powerful people in media and one of the most multi-faceted entrepreneurs we have ever met. As the founder of media company SB Projects and the co-founder of TQ Ventures, he has backed prominent companies such as Pinterest, Spotify and Uber and managed some of the world’s biggest names in music including Justin Bieber, Ariana Grande, and Demi Lovato. Braun’s other accolades include founding Ithaca Ventures (acquired by HYBE for $1BN+) in 2021, and philanthropic efforts such as being a Make-A-Wish board member, raising $55M+ for Hurricane Harvey and Irma relief and continuing to instill the value of social good wherever possible. --------------------------------------- Timestamps: 0:00 Introduction 1:22 Happiness & Success: Finding Balance 7:37 How Money & Power Changes You 10:08 Who’s there for you? 13:49 Scooter Braun’s Approach to Online Hate & Conflict 18:53 Discovering Justin Bieber: A Career-Changing Moment 21:32 Manchester Terrorist Attack and Ariana Grande’s Response 24:01 Biggest Professional Mistake and Lessons Learned 28:23 Inside Look at Billion-Dollar HYBE Deal 32:11 What I Learned from Jeff Bezos 37:52 Scooter’s Investment Hits and Misses 43:06 TQ Ventures: Investing in the Future 44:31 Friendship with Ashton Kutcher 46:28 On Being Vulnerable 51:55 Scooter’s Advice to Harry 1:00:10 Why Everyone Needs One Week Off a Year 1:06:47 How Kids Changed Scooter’s Mindset 1:09:00 Biggest Catalyst in Scooter’s Life 1:14:02 What do you still need to unlearn? Growth and Self-Reflection 1:18:37 What achievement are you most proud of? 1:20:10 Lessons I Want My Children to Learn 1:28:52 Call Me Scott Braun: Identity and Reinvention 1:31:47 Quick-Fire Round 1:34:51 Favorite Memory Working with Justin Bieber 1:37:43 How I Discovered Ariana Grande 1:39:03 What would you like to change about the music industry? 1:41:25 Where do you see yourself in five years? --------------------------------------- In Today’s Episode with Scooter Braun We Discuss: 1. From College Party Promoter to Managing The World’s Biggest Superstars: What was the single most catalytic moment of Scooter’s career? What was Scooter’s most painful professional mistake, and what did he learn from it? What was the decision-making behind Scooter’s HYBE deal? What is the biggest challenge in scaling the trajectories of the people Scooter works with? If Scooter could change one thing about the music industry, what would it be? 2. College Party Promoter Turned Venture Investor: How did Scooter originally get into investing? How did Scooter’s party promoting business almost lead to an early investment in Facebook? Do people approach Scooter differently as an investor because of his success in the music industry? Why is vulnerability helpful for investing? 3. Scooter’s Lessons on Success (And How to Deal With It): Why does Scooter believe happiness and success are not aligned? How does Scooter approach deal-making? Is work-life balance bullshit? Does Scooter think you have to break your back to become as successful as Jeff Bezos? Is Scooter scared of mediocrity? Why does Scooter think all entrepreneurs are bad at having faith? 4. The Secrets to Being a Better Parent, Child, and Partner: How does Scooter approach trust? How did having kids impact Scooter’s mindset? Why was divorce the biggest catalyst in Scooter’s entire life? Does Scooter worry that money will negatively influence how his children are brought up? What is the most important thing a child can hear from a parent? 5. Finding the “Scott” Buried Inside “Scooter”: It’s easy to become the brand you create. How does Scooter prevent losing himself when that happens? What does Scooter need to unlearn in the future? What has Scooter changed his mind on in the past 12 months? How does Scooter approach his relationship to regret? What single lesson you most would Scooter most want a young person listening to this conversation to take away? --------------------------------------- Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3j2KMcZTtgTNBKwtZBMHvl?si=85bc9196860e4466 Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-twenty-minute-vc-20vc-venture-capital-startup/id958230465 Follow Harry Stebbings on Twitter: https://twitter.com/HarryStebbings Follow Scott “Scooter” Braun on Twitter: https://twitter.com/scooterbraun Follow 20VC on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/20vc_reels Follow 20VC on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@20vc_tok Visit our Website: https://www.20vc.com Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://www.thetwentyminutevc.com/contact --------------------------------------- #ScooterBraun #HYBE #HarryStebbings

Scooter BraunguestHarry Stebbingshost
Apr 17, 20231h 42mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 1:22

    Introduction

    1. SB

      It's your job to show up in the moment, be present, and present who you are, and help someone do the same.

    2. HS

      (instrumental music) Scooter, I am so excited for this. So, I sent out a tweet saying how desperate I was to have you on the show, and, uh, I believe quite a few people messaged you after it.

    3. SB

      So, if you're very-

    4. HS

      Thank you so much.

    5. SB

      I... Look, thank you. You're very popular on Twitter.

    6. HS

      (laughs) .

    7. SB

      My favorite was, obviously I got calls from people that I do know, but my favorite was reading underneath your tweet all of these people saying, "Oh, I know him so well, I'll reach out to him," and I had no idea who some of these people were. (laughs)

    8. HS

      Did they try and reach out to you?

    9. SB

      I have, I, I have no idea. I, I got a couple calls coming in, and then I responded, and I'm really glad that I did because we'll get into it, but the first time we spoke, you were just, "Hey, we can do this whenever. I'm excited." And you know, we ended up having a conversation on the phone where I pushed you on what you wanted to talk about and kind of where I am in life.

    10. HS

      Hmm.

    11. SB

      And I had a very vulnerable conversation with you about your life, mine, where you are, things you wanna achieve, things you're thinking of, and I found you to be an incredibly thoughtful guy who is, is thinking about the right things at an age far before I ever did. And I told you before we started that part of the reason I'm here is, one, because I was so impressed by you, but two, I c- I can tell you're just gonna be incredibly successful, but I think you're asking the right questions to be happy and successful.

    12. HS

      You say about being happy and successful. The biggest thing that I'm struggling with right now, honestly,

  2. 1:22 – 7:37

    Happiness & Success: Finding Balance

    1. HS

      is I always thought happiness and success were aligned.

    2. SB

      Well, so did I.

    3. HS

      And they're not at all. Like, I'm sorry this sounds arrogant, but I'm becoming more and more successful, but I'm not becoming happier, and that's a really hard dislocation because everything I ever believed is then not true.

    4. SB

      Well, i- look, I... (sighs) It's funny because even as I got older, I thought that I solved this, and then you find out that you're always doing the work, and you're always, the universe is always kinda revealing to you what you need. I had a number that I wanted to make... Uh, I wanted to... I was like, "Oh, I wanna be a billionaire," and then I found out making five grand is hard. And I was, uh, I was 19 years old, and I s- I was, started building the business that I have today. And I had a number. I met a guy who owned a c- a Cadillac dealership in Atlanta, Georgia, and he told me a number that I could have his life if I made this much, and my goal was to make that much by the time I was 50. And I was 27 years old, and, uh, Justin's career had started to explode. And my accountant called me, and another commission had come in, and I said, "Wait a second. How much money do I have?" And I was 27, and I had surpassed my lifetime number. And I remember suddenly becoming thrilled, and then within 30 seconds, incredibly depressed.

    5. HS

      Yeah.

    6. SB

      Um, and it was because I realized that I thought if I got this much, I would feel at peace, and now I can just go through life and be happy, and I... Nothing had changed. So, I found myself incredibly depressed, and I ended up calling my dad, and I'm telling my dad now I'm, I'm the most successful person in the family at 27. And he's all excited, and then I said, "But I'm depressed," and he actually gave me beautiful advice. He goes, "Look, pull over. Think about the times you're truly happy, and then call me back." So, I pull over. I think about it. I call him back, and I say, "When I'm playing basketball with my friends, when I'm out for a great dinner with friends, when, you know, I'm, I'm seeing someone right me, and I randomly help them out, or I'm at a grocery store, and I pay for the person in front of me." And he goes, "It sounds like being successful only allows you more time to implement those things. That's where your happiness lies. Success is not about happiness." And later on, someone said to me that, you know, financial success can either be a jail or freedom, and it's, it's how you treat it. So, I think the more successful you are, if you're willing to do the self-work with the liberty of not having to worry about a mortgage, with the liberty of having the time to put yourself first at times, you'll be far happier at an earlier age than I was because even though I had that perspective, I then continued to build my life based on a narrative that I'd given myself of what it had to look like for me to love myself.

    7. HS

      Yeah.

    8. SB

      And that's how I built... I don't wanna be long-winded here, but I built Scooter. And it wasn't until 39 years old that my personal life went into turmoil, and this narrative that I had built for myself of the success, the perfect marriage, the perfect life, this example to the world, suddenly it came crashing down, and I was forced to do the self-work that made me understand that real happiness is being okay with, what we talked about earlier, with your mess, being okay that you're, the fact that you're not okay.

    9. HS

      (laughs)

    10. SB

      And I think that you're asking those questions, and I think we're all on a process to figure that out.

    11. HS

      First question, when you called your dad and told him at that moment, what were you looking for? We've spoken before about my relationship with my father, and I always seek his p- like, pride and, uh, satisfaction and approval. What did you want him to say when you called him to tell him about your number?

    12. SB

      Look, I, I think it's a lot easier at this perspective in my life to know what I was looking for. I think I wanted... I always wanted to be an example to other people, right? And that seemed like a good thing because then I could... I would give to charity, and I would build a big business, and I would have this perfect life, and I would, you know, say to my dad, "Look how successful your son had become even though he was a college dropout, and you were so worried about him." And, and even though I did things differently, I had an idea of what I wanted to build, but it was always projecting outward. It was always, "If I do this..." And I see you smiling at me 'cause I have a feeling you relate to this. "If Harry Stebbings builds this VC firm, if Harry Stebbings builds this media company, if these help people, if he can be an example to other people of success, then he doesn't have to tell everyone the fear that he has or the frustration he has or the childhood that he had, that he had to step up to always be an example because if he just sat there and didn't do anything, he never knew if that was okay."

    13. HS

      Do you know

    14. SB

      Yeah.

    15. HS

      ... know how I actually feel? I actually feel like if I build them, then I'll be worthy. Do-

    16. SB

      And that's the whole thing. It's, it's you're projecting...... it, look, it's- it's the shame lie that I had and you have, it's what I see in you, I see a lot of m- me, we both have this thing that we're not enough. That, you know, like, who would ever love us if we just showed up as ourselves without the achievements? And that comes from childhood. It's why, you know, you asked me about the place, Hoffman, that I went to.

    17. HS

      Mm-hmm.

    18. SB

      And that was the first time since I was six years old that I liked my name, Scott. And I realized I'd been building this mask, Scooter, for all these years. And that place helped me realize that I'm okay being me, and I'm still doing that work every single day. And I'm okay being a mess. And I told you the hardest part of getting to the other side of that work and then continuing it, is so many people who knew that version that w- was filled with so much fear, that built this beautiful thing. And I was proud, like, what I built as that mask of Scooter was a beautiful thing. And we'll talk about a lot of that, I know.

    19. HS

      Mm-hmm.

    20. SB

      And I'm very proud of that. But you ha- you deserve to have both. You deserve to have the version of you that's tough out there, that's achieving and everything else, but you also deserve to have that inner child, you know. What- what were you called as a kid?

    21. HS

      What, n- name?

    22. SB

      Yeah.

    23. HS

      Uh, I mean, at- at school, Augustus. I was incredibly fat. Uh, and, uh, and then at home I was Haz, Hazard.

    24. SB

      So my point is, does anyone call you Haz anymore?

    25. HS

      No.

    26. SB

      (laughs) And- and it's an interesting thing, because-

    27. HS

      But people... But this is what I also don't like with... Sorry, this sounds so awful, and it's also very different. You're a so much more successful than me. But it's just like-

    28. SB

      I'm a lot older than you.

    29. HS

      ... but

  3. 7:37 – 10:08

    How Money & Power Changes You

    1. HS

      like, money and power changes your relationships. People are nervous of me. Like, my father and a lot of my friends, th- they're much more nervous 'cause there's this hierarchy for them. Not for me. I just wanna have a coffee with my mate, Scott.

    2. SB

      Yeah.

    3. HS

      They're like, "Oh, I'm gonna come and ask for advice, or ask for money." And it changes all the relationship dynamics you have.

    4. SB

      Well, I told you this earlier, uh, a therapist that I work with really changed my life when she said, um, "Boundaries are there for you to teach other people how to treat you." And I was always really bad with boundaries because I thought that they showed weakness. I was like, "I can handle anything. I don't have a boundary with anything. I can be completely open and no boundaries." And I realized that it is okay for me to have boundaries and say to people, "If you're gonna be in my life, you have to treat me a certain way, and that is seeing me for who I am." And there are certain people that's been frustrating for me that because of, rightfully so, the way I was before, they think that's who I am.

    5. HS

      Mm-hmm.

    6. SB

      But they're also not giving me the grace of that growth. And maybe they have boundaries with me because they don't know, when that's all fair. But I can tell you, with what you're describing, you're giving that power. You know, that's, it's like stoic philosophy. It's like, you c- y- it's only your reaction is what matters. And when you decide to be comfortable enough in yourself, truly comfortable enough in yourself, and do that work, that you feel comfortable as Haz or Harry, then you won't be affected by how they're coming in. You'll be able to look at them and say, "Hey, I need you to treat me this way," or, "I'm sensing that I need to remove myself from the situation." Or completely unaffected, you know? And it, you're not giving it any power. It makes you uncomfortable 'cause you're still trying to navigate. And I'm, I don't wanna tell you how you feel, okay? But I know for me, in the past, I would try to navigate how to make them even feel comfortable so I could feel comfortable. You underst- you know what I mean?

    7. HS

      Yeah, I do, totally.

    8. SB

      And I- I just think that, you know, I'm- I'm sound preaching to you, but it's only because I'm on that path right now. I'm just as much of a mess as you when you're talking about what you're going through. I'm still navigating, I'm still having that dark side rise up in me when I have certain insecurities and I wanna defend myself and say, "Well, actually, no, I'm this person." Or... And I think I'm working on getting to a place where I'm comfortable enough with myself that I can just say, "Okay, if you're choosing to meet me and see me and love me, you get to stay here. And if not, I don't have any ill will, but I don't have to give my energy to that anymore."

  4. 10:08 – 13:49

    Who’s there for you?

    1. SB

    2. HS

      Can I ask, who's there for you? We spoke earlier about, you know, um, "I'm- I'm there for a lot of people," you know,

    3. NA

      Yeah.

    4. HS

      "Little people in the family, in particular, and then booze was there for me. Alcohol was there for me." And that was a crutch, and great, it worked. Who's there for you at the end of the day? 'Cause you're there for so many.

    5. SB

      You know, I- my grandmother died, um, a little over six years ago. Eight days later, my second son was born. And I was really depressed losing her. But I didn't tell anyone 'cause I had to be there for my father. My mom was being there for my dad. You know, I would, I would always be the fixer, right? And then I had to jump in and have a child, and... And I realized no one asked if I was okay, and I got very depressed again because, you know, no one asked. And- and, uh, my wife at the time, Yaël, said something really beautiful to me. She goes, "That's your fault. You don't share with people who you are. You're not vulnerable with people and- and telling them so they don't know to ask. What you're doing now, doing this podcast and being this vulnerable, there are a lot of people who wanna be there for you. Strangers who I've checked your Twitter and I've seen the comments." Like, people really are falling in love with the vulnerability of what you share. I did. That's why I came, because you spoke to me in a way that I was like, "This is a really good guy searching for answers, just like me." So when you ask who's there for me, since I've done this work, not only are there a lot of people there for me, but I also came to the realization that there were always a lot of people there for me, and I just wasn't letting them in because I thought that it was weak to do so.

    6. HS

      How do you approach trust? This is the other thing that I find now, which is like, there's a lot of people who will be there for you, who will wanna be there for you. You know, Scooter. And you can't trust everyone.

    7. SB

      Well, one, um, I have three beautiful kids that I get unconditional love from. So I have like a... I'm like Green Lantern with the lantern-

    8. HS

      (laughs)

    9. SB

      ... getting, you know, powered up by my children every time I'm around them. There's just something...... so beautiful about children that, you know, I, I coach two of my kids' basketball teams, I bring my daughter to dance class on Mondays, and I love being around them. Like, I, I'm kind of obsessed with them. It's, I, I'm af- I don't wanna become the dad that's overbearing, but I really, really-

    10. HS

      But let me tell you about my kids. (laughs)

    11. SB

      No, but it's, I, I just, I, I'm obsessed with them.

    12. HS

      Right.

    13. SB

      Like, it's, uh, and it's because they love me, you know? It's like they, it's such unconditional love that it's, like, it's, it's hard to describe. So number one, I have that. Number two, I have a bunch of friends. I'm actually in town with my buddy, David Appleton, who's been an amazing friend to me. Um, I have two of my close friends since I was 11 years old, Mike and Vuk, and we'd hang, but when I went through this, kinda, transformation of, of pain to joy over the last three years, I, uh, "Amor Fati" I have tattooed on my r- uh, arm. It's, uh, Marcus Aurelius Meditations. I had the suffering and the joy and I learned to love them the same. And when I was vulnerable, me and these two guys who'd been in my life my whole life took it to a different place. And they say, "We've known you your whole life, but we don't really kn- we didn't know you until now." And they check on me and I check on them, and they are there for me in such a beautiful way. And I started to realize how many other people were. I just always thought that I had to show this strength to these people. And I was also playing into my trauma of, um, trying to satisfy the people who were abusive to me. (laughs) You know? It's like, I'm paying so much... It's like negative comments on your Instagram, right? (laughs) I'm paying so much attention to certain people in my life who I'm trying to win over to make sure that they love me that I'm not paying attention to the people standing right next to me who truly love me and aren't asking me for anything.

  5. 13:49 – 18:53

    Scooter Braun’s Approach to Online Hate & Conflict

    1. SB

    2. HS

      They hurt me. Do they hurt you?

    3. SB

      Yeah.

    4. HS

      You know, when everything happened with the Taylor stuff-

    5. SB

      Yeah.

    6. HS

      ... and there was such hate, did that hurt?

    7. SB

      Yes.

    8. HS

      Yeah?

    9. SB

      Yes, absolutely.

    10. HS

      How do you deal with that?

    11. SB

      I mean, I-

    12. HS

      Can I get some random answer?

    13. SB

      Look, I always, I always said, "Oh, I took the high road," and everything else. I was going through stuff in my personal life. I really didn't have the bandwidth to deal with it, and it did hurt, because the day before it happened, I had never had any negative news about me in our entire industry. I'd never had an issue with anybody. Um, and then suddenly overnight, because someone said something, I was a bully. What I realized though is I started to go out in public and say, "I'm not gonna be a hermit to this," and not one person has ever said anything negative to me in public. So, I will tell you, the internet is not a real place. Dave Chappelle says that all the time. Twitter is not a real place. So, if someone is taking time out of their day to write you something negative, and they don't even know you online, it's usually 'cause they're hurting. You know, it's not real. And the other thing I can tell you is, if someone has over 100 million followers and 10,000 are yelling at you at the same time, it seems extraordinarily loud, but it's less than 1%. You know? So, it's not real. And I knew that from handling my own clients. I think the thing I took pride in that moment was that no one else said it. You know? The, a lot of the times when, when someone comes out and says, "Oh, this whole time this person's been this way," there's an onslaught of everyone coming out, uh, coming out and being like, "I agree, I agree." And no one did that, you know? No one actually came out and said those things. And I have no ill will. I, I don't know if, if, you know, what was told on the other side, but, um, I don't have any ill will. And I'm actually at a place now, to be honest, out of respect, I answered it for you, but I've moved on from it.

    14. HS

      Yeah.

    15. SB

      And, and I don't even feel a need to talk about it anymore, because it, it no longer needs to affect me. But the answer at the time, it hurt. But I also hadn't done the work that I ended up doing over those next three years at that point. So, I was so hurt because my narrative I had built was being the good guy.

    16. HS

      Yeah.

    17. SB

      So then, suddenly being labeled, without any real facts, you know, I was, it was messing with me. And I look back now and I think that it had to happen. I think that had to happen, my divorce had to happen. I had to be, I had to be knocked in the gut for me to go do the work, 'cause there were all these signs for probably four or five years leading up to that, for me to go and do this self-work. And I kept telling myself, "But I'm fine. I don't have any issues." And I think God, universe, whatever you wanna call it, gave me what I needed to humble me to a place to go do the work, because you play a role in every conflict. So, I can say, "Oh, I didn't do anything" everything else, but everything, you had to have played a role in something or it was for you, something was given to you. Uh, there's a great book, Many Lives, Many Masters.

    18. HS

      I haven't read this.

    19. SB

      It's by Brian Weiss. It's, uh, he was the head of psychology at the University of Miami, and he wrote this book about a patient that came in who he was helping, and he had to do hypnotic regression to get to her early childhood, and he found some stuff, he goes, "Oh, that should solve it." She came in, nothing was solved. He did it again, she went into past lives. And he said, "Well, this can't be real." And then he realized with her educational background she couldn't know certain things, and he wrote a book about how this experience and what happened changed his entire practice. And when I read the book, I found it really interesting, 'cause it's obviously about reincarnation, and I said, "Well, that's, uh, just a beautiful way to look at life." We're here, we're given lessons to learn to be better. We can learn them and progress, or we don't learn them and come back and try again. And you don't have to be afraid of death if you realize you're just in a cycle of learning. And then my dad was like, "Well, our religion doesn't believe in that." And then I realized Kabbalah was only taught to 40-year-old Jewish scholars of the Torah, so it wasn't shared until recently, and all these mathematical formulas are now found that have been around for all these years. But the other thing it teaches is reincarnation, which means Christianity, the Muslim religion. We already know Buddhism. All the major religions actually b- believe in reincarnation, we just didn't realize it.

    20. HS

      Do you run towards conflict? You said the word conflict. I run away from it. That's one of the reasons I'm a terrible manager. I just p- uh, and w- we spoke about relationship with family. I'm always, "I'll pay for conflict to not be there."

    21. SB

      I would not say I run towards conflict now. I think I run towards resistance.

    22. HS

      Yeah.

    23. SB

      I think I used to run towards conflict 'cause I had, I had that feeling what we talked about, I'm not enough. So if someone had an issue, I just ran towards it and I wanted to address it right away because I needed it to be okay so I could continue feeling good about myself. (laughs) And I think now I realize that I, I don't need to do that. So what I run towards is the resistance I find within myself. If I find resistance in myself towards something, then I have something unresolved and I need to look inside myself on what is unresolved and get to that work. If I do that, someone could have a conflict, but if I feel indifferent, I'm not giving it any power so I can move on to what my work

  6. 18:53 – 21:32

    Discovering Justin Bieber: A Career-Changing Moment

    1. SB

      is.

    2. HS

      I do wanna take a different tact here, but we've mentioned a couple of different aspects. You mentioned kind of Justin earlier. And often the question is like, oh, how did you get into this industry? I don't wanna ask that at all. I find there's catalytic moments in careers where the spark ignites. And it may not be what people think it is.

    3. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    4. HS

      But when you think about a catalytic moment that really you felt, "Oh, shit, it's working and this is my break." And so like for me, it could be a specific episode or the fundraise. Is there a moment where you're like, yeah, that was the moment?

    5. SB

      Look, I could tell you there are certain moments 'cause I, I know what they were. The weird part is when certain things happen to me, I get like, um, almost a blueprint gets downloaded in my head and I can see everything like, like a chess board. Like I know exactly what's gonna happen. So when I saw Justin, while everyone told me no and everyone thought I was crazy, I knew exactly what to do and I saw the plan til he was 18. Like, I just knew. I, I was like this kid's gonna be the biggest artist in the world. I know exactly what to do to help him become that. Then there were moments, I don't know what it's gonna be, but there was a moment where we had, um, a mall that got overran and I knew that like, okay, the press is gonna pick this up and I got arrested for it.

    6. HS

      (laughs)

    7. SB

      And yeah, and um, 'cause they, they, we went and put up a tweet, like and they arrested us and for causing a riot, but we didn't cause the riot and then my record got expunged later.

    8. HS

      I would love to see that. I don't know. (laughs)

    9. SB

      Oh, yeah. It's, it's, it was, uh, there was a whole free scooter thing.

    10. HS

      Facilitation of Justin Bieber concert. (laughs)

    11. SB

      Yeah. And it, it was at a mall. He was just making an appearance in Long Island. But the next day on the national news, this crazy incident at the mall happened and suddenly he was a household name. Or we were putting up all these videos on YouTube and he sang With You by Chris Brown and every, that was the one that went to a million the first time and everyone binge watched, like Netflix, all the others and everything started going to a million and he became one of the biggest things on YouTube. I've had those kinda moments with so many different careers and many times, like that riot where I got arrested, majority of the times outta those, those moments are the moments of tragedy. It's the moments that other people would say, "Oh, this is going to be a very bad thing." And how you choose to react can change everything. You know, you can choose to walk into it and just put your head down and say, "That's it." Or you can choose to react in a very different way that can, that can lift... And you know, they say make lemonade out of lemons.

    12. HS

      Mm.

    13. SB

      And I've seen that so many different times that almost every single time I, something bad happens or you would assume it's a bad situation, I always say, "Okay, there's, there's a, there's something in this for us." That, you know, there's a message and there's something that, something special can happen here.

  7. 21:32 – 24:01

    Manchester Terrorist Attack and Ariana Grande’s Response

    1. SB

    2. HS

      Is there one that you think to with that?

    3. SB

      The most special thing I've ever been a part of was the Manchester concert. Um, I've never... I have the Manchester bee tattooed on my arm. Um, Ariana, who I had dinner with last night, she knows this so I always tell her and she, you know, gets emotional, but she'll always be a hero to me, um, 'cause she could've stayed home after that. She met those kids, she was there, she was traumatized. I asked her to do a concert two weeks later in response to terrorism. That's a very unfair ask. But I, I, uh, I was, I was angry. But it was an unfair ask. And, um, she said no at first and then two days later called me and says, "You know, I'm not who I say I am. Unless I do this, we need to do this." And all those artists showed up. But I always say the, the hero was the city of Manchester because people forget the London terror attack was the night before that concert. And the British government put a full alert on saying, "You can go to the concert, but there is likely an attack." That is what the Greater Manchester Police put out as a bulletin. And I thought, no one's gonna show up. We- we're putting this on, you know, it's on BBC, it's being broadcast over Radio One, it's on Twitter, it's on YouTube, and it's on Facebook. You can sit at home and watch this magnificent concert and be safe. And when Marcus Mumford took the stage to open it up for us, it was filled with like 66,000 people.

    4. HS

      Yeah.

    5. SB

      And I have never... He and I talked beforehand and he called for a moment of silence and it was just completely still and I, I just couldn't stop crying. And, uh, it was the most powerful thing I've ever been a part of. That and March for our Lives, um, which was in response to gun violence, which we're dealing with again unfortunately in the United States. But those kind of things, being a part of those, um, producing those with people that I love, you know, I, I, I'll never forget those moments. It makes it all worth it and, and it's, it's why, you know, this country that I'm in and why Manchester always has a special place in my heart because I've never seen bravery like that. Ever.

    6. HS

      Can I ask one which is like, I think the most... I think people get podcasts wrong and I think people get discussions wrong 'cause they, they often focus on the theory too much and not the story. And we both have a love of storytelling. But it's not not tied to lessons.

  8. 24:01 – 28:23

    Biggest Professional Mistake and Lessons Learned

    1. HS

      One of my biggest lessons was when I lost, you know, many millions of dollars in, in Pakistan on an investment and many reasons why it was a mistake, but-

    2. SB

      That sounds like a Hangover movie, like when you describe-

    3. HS

      (laughs)

    4. SB

      ... I lost millions of dollars in Pakistan.

    5. HS

      Literally millions.

    6. SB

      It just feels like Zach Galifianakis there. (laughs)

    7. HS

      Trust me, we could have made, we could have made The Hangover movie for how much I lost in Pakistan.

    8. SB

      (laughs)

    9. HS

      But, um, I learned a lot. That was a really painful mistake for me professionally and I learned a lot. When you think about your most painful-... professional mistake. What would you say it was and what did you learn?

    10. SB

      My most painful professional mistake. I have lots of them, honestly, but I don't see them as mistakes. I see them as the greatest moments of perspective, 'cause I needed them, you know. The way you just said, you know, "It was such a big mistake and I learned from it."

    11. HS

      Mm.

    12. SB

      If you didn't lose millions of dollars in Pakistan, I don't think you'd be exactly where you are today.

    13. HS

      No, I would be millions of dollars richer, right now. (laughs)

    14. SB

      Or, or, or-

    15. HS

      With less learnings.

    16. SB

      Yeah, but here- but here's what I would say, you would have less learnings, you wouldn't have the perspective to go and do the great things you're going to do. And I think those moments, like I said, it's for you because you need the perspective of those losses to actually understand how to win. I, I have so many. I mean, you know, when, when I sold the company to Hybe, um, my entertainment company, that is, 'cause we have obviously an investment firm that's separate. But, um, when we sold to Hybe, I, uh, it's hard doing these things sometimes because you have to talk about yourself. (laughs)

    17. HS

      Don't lie, I'm asking.

    18. SB

      Um, so I gave $50 million of my own stock away to my employees and my artists, um, when I received, you know, my payment. And the reason I did that is 'cause, um, I had learned from past deals that I took everyone, you know, whoever had equity, they got their stuff and we just kept it moving. And what I realized is, um, I wanted everyone to feel a part of it. And what I, uh, you know, and everyone was, "Oh, it's so generous." But the learning wasn't the generosity, 'cause there's 100 different ways to be generous. I could've given the money to charity. Um, it was because I also realized there's a freedom in generosity. There's a way that, you know, we talked about it earlier, money can trap you.

    19. HS

      Right.

    20. SB

      You can make a lot of money and then you're bound to the responsibilities of what you've built, or you're bound to the expectations of what you've built, or you're bound to the frustrations of others, of what you've built. And by, you know, doing that, I felt like, one, I took care of everyone, and two, if I choose to go in a different direction ever, I have the freedom of being able to look everyone in the eye and say, "I took, you know, I did right by you." And, and that was important to me. And, and I learned that from not doing it fully in the past and thinking, "Well, if as long as I'm just giving to charity, that's enough." You know, I look at other people I admire and I, I kind of took it from them and I think, um, there, there's just 100 different points. I mean, I don't wanna go into them because they become headlines and I don't want this to necessarily go in that direction.

    21. HS

      Mm.

    22. SB

      But I can tell you that you can do everything right, by the book, and people can say they're frustrated. And you can say, "Well, I did everything right." But ambition can also hurt you. And mean, and what I mean by that is, there are plenty of times in my career where I can look back and if someone's frustrated, I say, "I didn't do anything wrong. I did everything by the book. You know, this is business and, and I did everything right." But I knew in my heart I coulda done it a different way and I was too afraid to do it a different way sometimes because I didn't trust people. I didn't trust if I was completely transparent with them, would I get it done? And I look back now and I, I trust the universe a little bit more, that it wanted me to be here. You know, that it would've happened and I could've been more transparent. And the only bad thing that would've happened being transparent, is those who didn't help me get it done, I would've recognized who those people are and I would've removed them from my life. And maybe I wouldn't have gotten every single deal, but I would've got other deals. And I think that the lesson it taught me now, is that I wanna get to a place that when I win, everyone involved wins. If there are 10 people involved, all 10 win. I don't wanna leave anyone out, because I want a quality of life in my wins now.

  9. 28:23 – 32:11

    Inside Look at Billion-Dollar HYBE Deal

    1. SB

    2. HS

      What was the decision-making on the Hybe deal? It was a big deal.

    3. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    4. HS

      It was a very momentous moment in your life and your, your employees' life. What was the thinking behind, "Yeah, we're gonna do this"?

    5. SB

      Look, I think I was going through a very interesting time in my personal life. I was going through a divorce. Um, I was doing a tremendous amount of self-work. I had stepped away from my business somewhat for the first time in 20 years.

    6. HS

      I remember you had a b- I listened to your, uh, your conversation with Jay, and you had to burn a phone for like a year, I think. (laughs)

    7. SB

      Y- for about f- two and a half months.

    8. HS

      (laughs)

    9. SB

      Close it. Um, two and a half months, and then, uh, but it does, it was a big deal for a guy who literally always had his-

    10. HS

      It was a huge deal for anyone.

    11. SB

      And, um, but I was like deep into self-work, and even when I got my phone back, I delegated in a different way and I wasn't hands-on. I, I lost a client in Kid Laroi for a while because he was like, "I signed up for you and you weren't there." And then obviously I came back at a later point when I was on the other side of certain self-work, and he's back with us now. I decided to do Hybe because I wanted partners. Um, I, my children were getting to an age that I wanted to take a different path. I wanted to do less management and more play of an executive role. I got approached by Chairman Bang, who's my partner now, and he became like a dear friend. We started doing Zooms every week, privately. No one knew we were talking. And the day I was sold that I decided I wanted to do it, obviously he was offering us a really great deal. But the day I decided, he, he was talking to me and he said, "You know, in the, in the West, you guys always talk about transaction. And in the East, we actually talk about what we're gonna do after the transaction. We don't talk about the transaction. We get that out of the way right away, and we just talk about how we're gonna build together. And that's why I don't necessarily like doing as much business with the West." Um, he goes, "But on these four phone calls we've had, these Zooms, you've never talked to me about the transaction. You've only talked to me about life, about business, about culture, about music, about family." And he said, "I know that whatever happens, we will figure it out together on the other side, so I'm going to do this deal." And when he described it that way, I knew that was someone I wanted to be in business with. I had a great amount of admiration for him after that. And, uh, I felt like I can, not only do I have a partner that I can, uh, grow with, but I have a partner I can grow, I can learn from.

    12. HS

      You said there about kind of th- the transaction and how they don't focus on the transaction itself, it's kind of ironic because, you know, so many people said you are one of the best deal makers when I did my research. And it's kind of the antithesis of the transaction actually. So what do you think about successful deal making?

    13. SB

      So my mom's dad died when she was 11. When she was about 18, 19, my grandmother remarried. That was my grandma on the other side, not the one who died when my kid was six. Um, and I had a grandfather who raised me as his own, uh, named Irving. And he started a department store in the Catskill Mountains called Sullivan's. And he was one of the most successful businessmen in that entire area of this like mountain towns, right? And he was just this incredible entrepreneur of that community. And he realized I had a business mind very early on and I was kinda the one in the family that did. And he told me before he passed, he passed my freshman year at college, and he said to me, "The best deals are the ones where everybody wins." He goes, "The greatest negotiations are the ones where everyone feels good about it." So when I've negotiated, I've been tough, but I've always tried to get it to a place where it's fair. I never wanted anyone looking and saying, "I got a raw deal outta that." Um, and I also learned that if I got the raw deal, I had to stand by it. If I made the deal, I stand by it. So if I said to someone, "Hey, we're gonna do this," and then we start working and they're not pulling their weight, but I gave my word, I'll stand by my word. Because keeping that is more important than actually, for me, you know, proving, okay, this needs to change.

  10. 32:11 – 37:52

    What I Learned from Jeff Bezos

    1. SB

    2. HS

      How do you ... like your relationship to regret? Often in deals you'll have regret, and obviously am- among many different facets of life. But how do you approach your own relationship to regret?

    3. SB

      I don't have as much regret anymore. I think I would... I'll find myself doing that. Like I'll litigate the past sometimes when there's that regret, and then I'll catch myself and realize if everything hadn't happened, not only happened, but happened in the exact time it happened, giving me the grace to get through it.

    4. HS

      Do you know what I worry about? Those are underlying questions, to be totally honest with you.

    5. SB

      Okay, go ahead.

    6. HS

      Uh, a fear of future regret, which is a weird one. Like I, you know, I have the funds and the media company, Monday to Friday funds, media company Saturday, Sunday. Done it since I was 17, now I'm 25. And I will be doing it for the next 10 years. And I love it, and I fricking love doing everything about it. But when I'm 45, A, I'm worried about being rich Uncle Harry to my brother's kids and being on my own in a big house. And I'm worried that I'll go, "Really? Your whole 20s, every single weekend you were in a dark room listening to yourself?"

    7. SB

      L-

    8. HS

      And I love it. Do you see what I mean?

    9. SB

      Yes, 'cause I've lived it. So two things I'd say to you. Bezos started Amazon, and you've seen this interview I'm sure, 'cause most young entrepreneurs-

    10. HS

      Mm-hmm.

    11. SB

      ... have, where he says regret minimiz- minimization format.

    12. HS

      That's one of the best.

    13. SB

      One of the best ever. Um, and a couple things about Jeff that I find interesting, 'cause I've, I've had the privilege of getting to know the person. Um, number one, I think you should watch that again, 'cause you have to weigh that. You have to look at that formula and you have to decide for you, is it worth it, me giving up my twenty- 20s to have that freedom in my 30s and my 40s and my 50s? And by the way, I decided it was.

    14. HS

      Yeah.

    15. SB

      Um, but then you're talking about a guy who also decided, okay, I need to do this, because I'll regret not going this direction. And now he's also the guy who says entrepreneurs are incredibly misunderstood, great entrepreneurs. And I think he's one of the most misunderstood people, because here's someone, Jeff Bezos created more jobs in COVID than any human being on the planet. Jeff Bezos, when corporate companies wouldn't raise their minimum wage, and it cost him a lot of money, raised minimum wage at Amazon to $15 when the US government was still at seven and a quarter, I think. And other corporate companies, because he did that, were forced to do the same. So people talk about charity, they talk about giving, he just donated $10 billion to the environment. What they don't talk about, 'cause w- it's easy for us to talk about nonprofit and foundations, but what we don't pay attention to is are we giving back within our, within our for-profit businesses that actually pay the bills for these people? And I don't think that man gets enough credit for being someone who not only creates jobs, but makes sure people make a living, that they can survive and prosper when the actual government isn't willing to do that. And he deserves more credit. And, and I just don't think we like to glorify those things enough, but we used to. We used to kind of glorify building a business to make it huge. And somewhere along the way, we got fine with small businesses, maybe some midsize businesses, but God forbid you become a behemoth.

    16. HS

      And it's gonna get worse.

    17. SB

      And it will get worse, but at the end of the day, people should pay attention to the fact that Amazon didn't need to do that. And that man did it because he thought it was the right thing to do while he was creating jobs. And I just think that it, it deserves more credit and we should be celebrating entrepreneurs who do things like that, because it makes a massive difference in the everyday man's life.

    18. HS

      Before we move to venture, I do just have to ask, I have this problem, we mentioned kind of the regret minimization there, I have this problem with the work/life balance. I just think it's total bullshit. You speak to someone like Jeff in the early days of Amazon, most of the days of Amazon, I'm sure even now, you speak to your Elons, they absolutely kill themselves to make what they are building as big and as successful as they've become. I don't buy the, you can do it all, you can have the ba-

    19. SB

      So I'm actually gonna tell you, I asked the same question of Jeff.

    20. HS

      (laughs)

    21. SB

      I actually asked him, "How do you handle work/life balance?" And he gave me the best answer I've ever heard. He-

    22. HS

      If you were actually a true venture investor, by the way, you would caveat that and just say, "This was my answer." (laughs)

    23. SB

      No, but I, it, it came from him and he deserves the credit for it. I asked him, "How do you handle work/life balance?" And he said to me, "I hate the word balance." He goes, "Why?" And this is a man who has an amazing relationship with his children.... while building one of the biggest companies in the world. And he said to me, "Why should you have to balance two things that you love? You should harmonize them." And I said, "Really?" And he goes, "You should communicate to your fa- friends and your children how much you love Amazon." If, he goes, it's Amazon for him. He goes, "My kids knew everything that was going on there, so they didn't feel left out. If my kid was going through something and I had to be there for my kid, everyone at work knew what was going on so that they understood that my kids come first." And you put them together, and I think that I, for so long, thought work/life balance was finding a way to balance them, so I didn't tell people on one side what was going on in the other because I thought I had to keep them separate, but I was passionate about both. And that's like being married to two different people. And that's not fair. That's not gonna work. So I think that that advice he gave me is something I now use in my life that this next chapter for me, I wanna make sure that I harmonize it. If I'm passionate about something, I wanna make sure that everything in my life I'm passionate about is knowing about each other. The other thing is, the things I used to be passionate about, I'm not as passionate about anymore. So I have to also make sure that I don't stay in the same place and stay stagnant and become resentful

  11. 37:52 – 43:06

    Scooter’s Investment Hits and Misses

    1. SB

      of what I've created.

    2. HS

      You said about the next chapter there. I do want to discuss the investing. First, like, what was the first deal and how did you get into venture investing? Before we touch on TQ.

    3. SB

      I was a big college party promoter, and I used to pay a hacker to, um... Every time I got kicked out of the EDU databases at the colleges, I'd pay this kid, like, 4 or 500 bucks to log back in and hack back in and get me all the addresses so I could blast the kids. Um, and then something called thefacebook.com launched and Emory was one of the first, like, 8 or 12 schools. And I was like, "Wait a second. I can use this thefacebook.com to, like, get to all the kids." And I contacted Mark Zuckerberg, and then he put me in touch with the... At the time, it said, I think it was, like, you know, master of coin Eduardo Saverin was, like, on the contact page. And he put me in touch with Eduardo, and we started negotiating, and I was trying to invest $100 grand for 10% of Facebook. And, uh, we had emails going back and forth, and then Eduardo wrote me, um, at my So So Def email address, 'cause I was working at So So Def at the time, "Hey, Mark wants to launch 32 more schools in 2 weeks. He's decided he doesn't want to take any capital." I found out years later, because I saw Eduardo in Singapore, that I had no chance of getting in because Eduardo was pushed out at that point, and that anyone negotiating with Eduardo, Mark wasn't gonna let in. But also, he wasn't gonna take any money 'cause he was launching more schools. So I, I had broken up with my high school sweetheart. She was at BC. He was like, "If you ever wanna come up to Boston still talk to us, come by." And I look back now, and I know myself. If I would've gone up there, I might have gotten in. But I didn't wanna go up there 'cause I was too afraid to see my ex-girlfriend.

    4. HS

      (laughs)

    5. SB

      Um, and I also didn't understand what it was gonna be.

    6. HS

      That was a very expensive relationship.

    7. SB

      Yeah, you know what? I didn't, I didn't understand investing at that point. No one... These things didn't exist. I just thought it was a way to get my parties out there. So a year later, Peter Thiel invested, I think, a million dollars for, like, 10%.

    8. HS

      Yeah.

    9. SB

      And I thought, "Oh my God, I could have made a million dollars." Like, that's how much I didn't understand what it could be. Um, so it's not like I understood. But in the years to come, Facebook kept rising, and I recognized that. And I thought, "Oh, I did miss out on something here. I should continue to look in this space." And that loss opened me up to the idea of investing, and it led me to a slew of other companies that I've been fortunate enough to be an investor in. Um, and I started investing very early. I think I started investing when I was tw- I was like 26, 27, I started investing in tech.

    10. HS

      Do you remember your first deal? I remember getting sent the Y instructions, you know, 50K to a random bank, and you're like, "Wow, shit."

    11. SB

      I remember one of my first deals, everyone thought I was crazy on my, on my team, 'cause I had a new business manager, I was starting to make some money. And, um, it was a company that was valued at $400 million in San Francisco, and it was only in San Francisco, and it was a cab company. They called Uber. And, uh, it was Uber Car, and, um... And the only reason I knew about it is I'd gone up there to see another tech founder that I didn't get in on, and he called me an Uber. And the experience blew my mind, and then someone brought it to me, and I was asking about it, and they were like, "Oh, you gotta meet this guy. He's raising for it." My team was like, "This is crazy. You shouldn't do this." And I'm very grateful that I did. Travis is one of the best founders I've ever met in my entire life.

    12. HS

      Was it immediately obvious?

    13. SB

      Once you met him, yeah.

    14. HS

      Yeah.

    15. SB

      I mean, no, none of this... We all like to say it's so obvious what it's gonna become. At that time...

    16. HS

      No, but his talent and his like-

    17. SB

      Yeah, yeah, but at that time, like, you were thinking, "Oh, it could be a two or 3X," like, maybe. Like, I, I couldn't... I don't wanna lie. Like, I think we all say, "Oh, I saw it all the way." I saw my business all the way. The stuff I was investing in, I was betting on people that reminded me of another entrepreneurial spirit, so I always bet on entrepreneurs. You know, uh, even now, like, you know Z who runs Rho. Rho, Roman-

    18. HS

      Mm-hmm. I'm not... Yeah.

    19. SB

      You know-

    20. HS

      We're pen pals. We've never met in person, but we-

    21. SB

      Let me tell you something. You meet this guy, and you believe in that company instantly.

    22. HS

      Huh.

    23. SB

      You know, he's... There's certain founders that you meet that you go, "They're gonna figure it out one way or another." You know, I've been fortunate to be around certain guys. We're both friends with Daniel Ek, who you're seeing lately.

    24. HS

      Yeah.

    25. SB

      Daniel and I became friends. I invested in Spotify a long time ago. I've never sold a share. You know, I'm a long- I'm a full, I'm a full believer. Obviously, I know that industry much better 'cause it's my own.

    26. HS

      (laughs)

    27. SB

      Um, but I've been fortunate enough to be part of so many different rides. And then now, you know, building a fund with some friends, and it- it's... I just... I've been very... You know, uh, Howard Marks, someone I look up to, um, he wrote a really great memo where he talks about luck. And I agree with it full- wholeheartedly. You know, I was born in 1981 in New York City, and I look the way I look. I won the lottery the day I was born with privilege. Um, so for anyone to say they're not lucky in, in doing this is a completely absurd.

    28. HS

      Do you know, I was such a nerd at school. I, uh, I had went to boarding school, and we used to have these, like, camping torches on at night 'cause you had lights out.And then I'd have his memos printed out with, like, a camping torch on my head and I would read them at night. I mean, no wonder I didn't have many friends. (laughs) I was like 14.

    29. SB

      Look, I think, uh, uh, you're- you're my friend. I think you're a very interesting guy.

    30. HS

      Uh-

  12. 43:06 – 44:31

    TQ Ventures: Investing in the Future

    1. HS

      there. Talk to me about TQ status, where that's at. Tell me about that.

    2. SB

      Yeah, I- I feel extremely fortunate, uh, to be a partner in this fund. It... My partners Andrew and Schuster, Andrew and I were friends. He introduced me to Schuster. Uh, we decided, "Hey, let's do this as a small consumer fund." We did incredibly well, and then we decided, "Wait, we're getting all these opportunities to be something beyond ex- you know, consumer." And we got into all these other spaces, primarily tech and SaaS companies and- and just gaming companies and just really interesting stuff. We started about five, six years ago. We have- we're, you know, over a billion in man- uh, under management. Um, we just closed our third fund. And we're very fortunate because we- we have... Our third fund is a $500 million fund and we've only deployed, I think, 12%. So we're in a really good position in today's climate. And the thing I love about, you know, those guys is they run that fund full time. They're brilliant guys. And the thing I like about them is when they get in there with founders, they're not just guys who are like, "Okay, we're gonna back you with some money." They actually understand how to be there with founders and help them pivot around those tough times. And I think that's what you look for. And I take a lot of pride that when founders meet me, or I haven't met, who are in our fund, they always tell me what a pleasure it is to work with those guys and how hands-on they are and how- how much they back them. We've been very stealthen about how we've moved, but I- I'm- I'm very, you know, honored to, you know, be in business with those guys, and it's been a lot of fun.

  13. 44:31 – 46:28

    Friendship with Ashton Kutcher

    1. SB

    2. HS

      Can I ask a bit of a weird one? I had Ashton Kutcher on the show, uh, about a year ago or so. And he said, "The hard thing about actually being an investor for me is people feel they know me coming into the meeting and they're actually more nervous than they would be with other VCs. And so they don't show their best self, they don't present it in the best way. They kind of try and impress. They might try and... And it distorts the actual investment decision-making process," where for other people, it's like you have a raw, much more neutralized view, and for me, it's very difficult because they bring that kind of predisposed, uh, uh, knowledge of me.

    3. SB

      Well, here's what I'll say to that. I love him, but my son Levi and Ashton's son, Bay, are best friends. They were born in the hospital six hours apart. We actually ran into each other in the hall. We have a picture of our kids in a basket together when they were just 12 hours old. Um, and they go to school together and they're best friends to this day. Um, he is incredibly charismatic.

    4. HS

      He is.

    5. SB

      And he is kind and he is genuine and he is smart. So while they might come in nervous because they're in front of the superstar Ashton Kutcher, I argue that he is so down to earth and- and- and good at what he does that he can fix that very, very quickly and bring the best out of people because he brings the best out of his friends. I'm sure he can bring the best out of fra- founders. That being said, yes, I walk into certain rooms where my career might be known, it might not. I find the same thing. It's whether... You know, sometimes I'll be in front of a musician who's very nervous or your guy who did the cameras before we started-

    6. HS

      (laughs)

    7. SB

      ... he told me about his friend and we FaceTimed the friend and I noticed when he was dialing his friend, his hands were shaking. And I've been doing this long enough that I can tell someone, "Hey, that's..." You know, I take a shit on the toilet just like you. Let me give you a hug. Like-

    8. HS

      (laughs)

    9. SB

      ... uh, you know, you know how to diffuse the situation because sometimes people are nervous, sometimes they're not. Sometimes they have a preconceived notion of who they- you are. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. I think it's your job to show up in the moment, be present, and present who you are and help someone do the same.

  14. 46:28 – 51:55

    On Being Vulnerable

    1. SB

    2. HS

      And that's also why I- I think it is helpful to be vulnerable, um, vulnerability be- can be used in a positive which is like I'll often start... I always say being an interviewer and being an investor are very similar in the way that you have three to five minutes at the beginning where you can actually create an environment of safety and say, "You know what, Scooter? I'm really struggling with, uh, my eating disorder right now and I just don't feel great actually about myself." "Oh, I'm sorry to hear that." And suddenly the conversation is very different from like, "Hey, hey, how's the business going?"

    3. SB

      Well, I think i- it's interesting. I like you a lot 'cause I'm hearing certain things you say and certain questions you've asked me both on camera and off camera and I'm thinking of my own journey. I think you are very intuitive about other people and I think that you can use vulnerability as a strength to, what you just said, get other people to open up.

    4. HS

      Yeah.

    5. SB

      I'm gonna a- ask a question of you. Are you really vulnerable? Are you vulnerable in a safe way for you that you're- you're using it as a strength, that you're choosing the things you're comfortable sharing that come across vulnerable to make people feel comfortable to open up themselves? But I'm gonna ask you an honest question of yourself. Are you really, really vulnerable with the things that really scare you? Or do you only share them once you've come to terms with them?

    6. HS

      The honest truth is it's hard when you have a boss. You can use vulnerability as a positive tool efficiently and I think I've learned to do it very well if I'm just being very honest. The hard thing is I have a boss and my bosses are my LPs, the investors in my fund. My bosses are, you know, their bosses. And you very much feel that. I feel that for sure. And why most often the best interviews are people with no bosses 'cause you're completely, you know, uninhibited. So am I totally vulnerable? Probably there's 10% that's not. You know, what is one of my biggest fears? I have fears of Macaulay Culkin.

    7. SB

      Home Alone.

    8. HS

      With respect to him, I'm sure he's doing something. But people go, "Oh, where is he now?" And that's my biggest fear though, which is like, I'll be that-

    9. SB

      I- I saw some interviews with him recently. My argument is he seems to be very happy, you know? It was, uh, I can-

    10. HS

      I didn't want to pick on him, but do you know what I mean?

    11. SB

      No, no. But I- I'm actually glad you did bring it up because from what I've seen, he seems to be a happy person and a self-aware person. Um, and I don't know him. I can't speak to that. But I can tell you there's a lot of people who are known who I can't say that about.And my other argument to you is, do you really have a boss? Or are you putting that expectation on yourself that they wouldn't support you if you told them the truth of your fears?

    12. HS

      I think I also don't feel financially safe enough. I think the honest truth is-

    13. SB

      But that's what I'm saying, it's not... Let me rephrase that.

    14. HS

      Hmm.

    15. SB

      Because you don't feel financially safe enough, you don't trust them to support you if you were completely honest with your fears.

    16. HS

      Yeah.

    17. SB

      And that's what I'm trying to say to you, that I get that completely, and I still work through that. I'm not a pro at that yet. I, d- you know, my fears and insecurities come if I, if I share this or I don't know the answer. And if, if I'm not defensive in this moment, I completely get that. I think what we should both work towards is getting to a place that-

    18. HS

      Do you not worry with people that you work with, that if you're too vulnerable, they're like, "God, please-"

    19. SB

      Or, and-

    20. HS

      "... I'm listening. I'm listening." And they're like...

    21. SB

      By the way, I have LPs in TQ.

    22. HS

      You have LPs in TQ?

    23. SB

      I have LPs in TQ, I have clients who work for me, I'm on the board of Hybe. I'm one of the largest shareholders, but I have... We're a publicly traded company with a market cap that was at 14 billion, between eight billion and 14 billion depending on where the market is. And I'm the CEO of this company, and I, I have bosses.

    24. HS

      And you don't worry?

    25. SB

      No, not anymore. A- and what, it's funny, the things I worry about aren't them. It's when the worry comes in, it's my own shame. I'm now realizing the worry isn't their expectation, because at the end of the day, I'm on my journey, they're on their journey. It's I start to put this fear that if I present myself a certain way or if I'm not defensive or I'm not doing the right thing at the right time, you know, who's gonna support me? And I think what we're all working towards is getting to a place where we choose ourselves enough. I think there's a big lie. I, I want to say this, 'cause I don't wanna come across selfish.

    26. HS

      Mm-hmm.

    27. SB

      When I say choose ourselves, this was the lie that was told to me. And it wasn't like on purpose. I think all our parents and people in our lives do the best they can, every kid interprets life a different way. But the lie that came to me was, one, that I wasn't enough, and two, that if I chose myself, that I was being selfish. And now I realize that when I'm actually choosing myself, that's when my friends love me the most. Because I'm not a selfish person. I'm fun and generous and so are you, I could already see it. Like most people are. That when they're actually truly themselves and truly happy, everyone around them wants to be near them even more, and your LPs would wanna be near you even more because they'd wanna figure out how did you get to that place, because you're obviously a smart guy, you're gonna get to the deals. Your vulnerability is what's getting you to so many people, and that's why they're investing in you. It's not that they are scaring you. It's that you don't trust them to see you fully, because I don't know, and I'm only saying this 'cause I deal with this myself, it's because maybe we don't trust them to see us fully because we haven't accepted, accept ourselves fully.

    28. HS

      Sure.

    29. SB

      And-

    30. HS

      And now when-

  15. 51:55 – 1:00:10

    Scooter’s Advice to Harry

    1. HS

    2. SB

      Well, can I ask you a question?

    3. HS

      Yeah.

    4. SB

      J- we're gonna flip the podcast a little bit.

    5. HS

      Oof.

    6. SB

      Um, five years from now...

    7. HS

      Yeah.

    8. SB

      Your LPs can't be mad about what you say. They're, I- I know some of your LPs, some of your biggest ones.

    9. HS

      Mm-hmm.

    10. SB

      These are good people.

    11. HS

      They are.

    12. SB

      Really good people. They're not betting on at, what, 23? 24?

    13. HS

      When I started.

    14. SB

      How old are you now?

    15. HS

      Uh, 25.

    16. SB

      Okay, 25. They're not betting on a 25-year-old guy just because he's smart. They're betting on you because they wanna see you win because there's a lot of smart people much older than you that they can get a return on capital.

    17. HS

      Yep.

    18. SB

      They're betting on you because they like you and they wanna see you win. That's the truth, that's the part you're missing. They're betting on you because of who you are, not necessarily what you've achieved.

    19. HS

      Mm-hmm.

    20. SB

      'Cause there's a lot of other people who are much more seasoned they could give the same amount of money to.

    21. HS

      Mm-hmm.

    22. SB

      Five years from now, if you didn't have that burden that you actually are putting on yourself of thinking that you're not enough or if I told the truth, what do you want your life to look like if you didn't have to answer to anyone?

    23. HS

      Personal or professional?

    24. SB

      Both. Harmonize.

    25. HS

      I, I do... I love what I do. I love this. This is what gives me huge, huge joy. And kinda speaking of the harmonization, I believe that one of the next great firms will be built with media at the very center of it, and leverage media to find, to pick, to help the best companies in the world. And I wanna build that. And I don't view them as one or the other. And the biggest question that everyone asks me is, "How do you split your time between venture and media?" It's the same thing. It is the same thing. And I love that, and I wanna keep doing that. And I wanna keep having conversations like this where I am uninhibited and we've got this scheduled summer video. I'll still stay true to it all.

    26. SB

      Well, go through it all and then you just decide what you wanna keep.

    27. HS

      Sure. But like, I, I love that. And I think there's the recognition at the same time that I really love kids. And I, I'm desperately alone, bluntly. Um, and you turn off the lights at night and you're suddenly... The silence is very loud. (laughs) Do you know what I mean?

    28. SB

      Are you nervous that if you sought that out or took time to have kids or be l- that you're gonna, that right now is your time to build this?

    29. HS

      Yeah. Yeah. I, I definitely feel the momentum is transient. I don't know if you kind of see this, but it's-

    30. SB

      No, I think, and look, we all feel that.

  16. 1:00:10 – 1:06:47

    Why Everyone Needs One Week Off a Year

    1. SB

      to like... It took me 39 years to put at- something into practice that I wish I started when I was 20. And if there's anything I could say on this podcast, if someone's listening right now, that I could say, "Do one thing," it is what I'm going to say next. Once a year, take a week off, no phone, no emails, and do a week of self-work. Once a year, one week.

    2. HS

      I want to do this. What does self-work look like? Do I take a book and just-

    3. SB

      S- listen-

    4. HS

      But- but- listen, sorry, I'm- I'm just doubling down that terrible interview technique. Um, I- I haven't done a whole day in seven years and people are like, "Oh, hustle culture." It's not hustle culture. It's just because I started when I was 17 ............................ I have no idea who I am as a person. And when you go away with no phone and no distractions, you have nothing but yourself. And I'm deeply uncomfortable because-Then you suddenly then stare in the abyss and you're like, "Fuck."

    5. SB

      So, you're right. So, you're talking to someone who lived your life. I started when I was 18 and I ended up having a tremendous amount of success, and I thought I was someone named Scooter. And I forgot that my name was Scott, and I left that kid behind a long time ago because I was uncomfortable being Scott, and I didn't want to look into the abyss and deal with myself. So building and building and continuing, continuing, and getting the praise of achievements allowed me to avoid having to do something which was as simple as doing self-work. And it wasn't until my life got to a place where I was miserable that I was forced to do the self-work, and the transition started. And that's why I say if there's anything you listen to, I just don't want anyone to get to the place of pain I had to go to to start. I'm offering it so you don't have to deal with what I dealt with 'cause I wouldn't wish the pain that I felt in that moment on anyone. But I had to get to that low moment for me to start going in that direction. And when I say myself, worked for me, the first time I did it was Hoffman. It was the Hoffman process, no phone, no email, a week of intense self-work.

    6. HS

      When that moment hit, did you know that was the catalytic moment?

    7. SB

      There was no option. When you hit that level of bottom in y- in a depression, you realize there's do something, and the other option is not an option, right? "That's not who I am," that... I realized like, "That isn't me. That thought that came to my head? Way too dark, that isn't me. I'm not gonna go in that direction, I have to do something." And it was funny because my friend was like, "Well..." I was like, "What do I do?" It's the same thing you asked, and he was like, "Well, start with this place, Hoffman. You should go there. I did it, changed my life." And he put me on the phone with this woman, Liza, and she started talking and she goes, "I can get you in in three weeks," and it was October 24th, 2020. And October 24th, 2020, was the release date of Ariana Grande's album.

    8. HS

      Oh, no.

    9. SB

      And I thought, "This is the biggest album release I have of the year." And I remember being in a parking lot off her music video, hearing that over the phone, hanging up, looking up at the sky, and started hysterically laughing because I realized I was being given a choice. Choose the path that I've been on, of success, that had me hitting that rock bottom moment, or do something new and different, and I went into Ariana's trailer. I said, "I need to do something. I will help set everything up. Everything will be lined up for your release week, but I'm gonna be gone and I won't have phone or email. (laughs) And I'm your manager." And she talked to me about why, and she's like, "You were there for me during Manchester. I'm- it's time for me to be there for you." And, um, I left, and it was the first time I turned my phone off in 20 years. And, um-

    10. HS

      Were you scared to- to tell her that? Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

    11. SB

      I- I was at a place where I- I was just like, "It's time." I- I made that choice. I chose me for the first time of like, "I need to do this."

    12. HS

      And you weren't fearful that she'd go, "What?"

    13. SB

      I was. But I didn't have a choice. It was choose that path or not, and I went, and I thought my phone would be off for a week. And as you know, my phone stayed off for two and a half months, and it put me on a very different path, and I'm incredibly grateful. Like, I really am. And I think when you say, "What do you do?" there are many people around you doing it. You know, you just don't know because you've never asked. So I did this thing at Hoffman. Then I did, um, a thing at Sedona where I studied breathwork. Then I did a- another meditation retreat the following year. Um, you know, it's that one week. I remember when I went in, I was like, "What could a week do?" But I had never slowed down for a week before. I didn't know what a week could do 'cause I'd never stood in the abyss for a week. (laughs) And when I did, I was shocked with what one week of choosing yourself can do for your well-being. And now I make sure every year I take that week.

    14. HS

      What are you doing that week now?

    15. SB

      I'm working on something, so if it doesn't happen, I'm gonna choose something else. I'm thinking this year of doing, uh, a silent retreat. Or I- I'm really, uh, intrigued by Wim Hof.

    16. HS

      Hm.

    17. SB

      And I think, uh, I might wanna do, like, Wim Hof for a week.

    18. HS

      Yeah, I- I think financial safety is this big thing. I think that quite often.

    19. SB

      I think you're right, and the reason I say you're right is I don't think you need... Like that Bezos story I told you, he said to me, I said, um, "What do you want out of life?" And Jeff said to me, "I wanna evolve. I wanna be a better father, I wanna be a better friend, I wanna be more intimate." And I realized you don't need $200 billion to start that, right? It was like a cheat code he gave me. But I will say this 'cause I've seen these comments when I've talked about this on the- online before, where people will be like, "Oh, it's easy for you to say that because of your financial safety." And I wanna actually say I acknowledge that. I think that there's something to be said when I told you earlier that money is an avenue to freedom if you let it be. I have the financial freedom to take time off to go work on myself. I acknowledge that my grandfather, when he came to this country, wasn't fully in that position. His family needed him to go to work every single day. Um, but I think that's actually what the American dream was about, you know, putting your family in a better position so they have a better opportunity. My grandfather came to this country with my father and put me in a position so that I could go and do this and break generational patterns. I don't think he put me in this position so I could go be rich. You know? I think he put me in a position so we could have a better life.

    20. HS

      Yeah.

    21. SB

      And I think that for me not to acknowledge that would be ludicrous. I think it's better to acknowledge it. But then people need to look at their own situation and really ask themselves, do they have enough freedom to go take a week off once a year? Most people will be able to say yes.

    22. HS

      I- I do wanna ask

  17. 1:06:47 – 1:09:00

    How Kids Changed Scooter’s Mindset

    1. HS

      before we, um, move onto a quick fire, that children are so important, and being a father is such a crucial part of your life. How did having kids impact your mindset?

    2. SB

      I always thought having kids would slow me down.

    3. HS

      Hm.

    4. SB

      I was like, "Oh, I can kick guys' asses who have kids. They gotta go home," and everything. What you realize when you have kids is how incredibly efficient you become.So you're, without kids, you've, your brain just finds ways to get busy and things that you were like, "Oh, I have to deal with this." When you have kids, you're like, "No, I have to get home." So you're just, you sift through bullshit so much faster. And I, uh, it, those kids are the best thing that ever happened to me.

    5. HS

      Did it change your work mode?

    6. SB

      Yes, completely.

    7. HS

      Yeah.

    8. SB

      You know, I, I, and, and e- and even more so in divorce, because, um, I, I was a really good dad when I was married. I came home every night to put them to sleep. I adored them, but I wasn't fully present because I took it for granted, because I would come home and I'd think, "Okay, well, they're still gonna be here tomorrow, so if I gotta take this phone call, I gotta take this phone call, or if I gotta do this email, I do this email. If I gotta go do this..." You know, I'm here, so that's what matters. They see me. And when I got divorced and it was 50/50, then it went to, "You know what? They're gonna be with me on Monday and Tuesday, and then Wednesday and Thursday, they're five minutes down the road and they're not with me." And when that happened, I didn't take it for granted anymore and I actually can tell you, they get 100% of me in that 50%, and I think that's actually better than it was before. And I, and no one tells you that 'cause I didn't have any divorce in my family, so I didn't know what to expect. I felt like such a failure. But the relationship that I have with my children now, on the other side of it, I wouldn't, I, I, I'm so much more grateful because I would have, if I would have come to this awareness when they were 18, I would have deeply regretted it, and being able to have that happen, you know, when they're, when they're young, when my daughter's four, my, my son's eight now and my other son's six, I, I'm really, you know, while it's incredibly tough, and, and anyone who goes through divorce will tell you, you wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy.

    9. HS

      Mm-hmm.

    10. SB

      Um, I'm very grateful, uh, for the relationship I have with my

  18. 1:09:00 – 1:14:02

    Biggest Catalyst in Scooter’s Life

    1. SB

      children.

Episode duration: 1:42:19

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