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Shyam Sankar: The Broken Incentive Structure of How Governments Buy Defence | E1104

Notion combines your notes, docs, projects into one space that’s simple and beautifully designed, with the power of AI built right inside — not a separate AI tool or browser tab. Try Notion for free when you go to notion.com/20vc --------------------------------------------- Shyam Sankar is Chief Technology Officer and Executive Vice President of Palantir Technologies in addition to the Chairman of Ginkgo Bioworks. Shyam holds a B.S. in Electrical and Computer Engineering from Cornell University and a M.S. in Management Science and Engineering from Stanford University. ----------------------------------------------- Timestamps: (0:00) Intro (00:52) Work Ethic, Luck, and Success (04:54) Palantir's Formative Years (09:05) Sales Strategies and Government Contracts (18:08) Challenges in Defense Industry (26:31) Government Procurement and Budgets (36:04) Evolution of Defense Technology (42:22) Leadership and Venture Capital (47:36) Talent Management (57:30) Business Reinvention (59:20) Quick-Fire Round ----------------------------------------------- In Today’s Episode with Shyam Sankar: 1. Journey to the Top of Defence: How did Shyam make his way into the world of startups and get a role with Kevin Hartz at Xoom? How did seeing Shyam’s parents lose everything impact his mindset and drive? What does Shyam know now that he wishes he had known when he started his career? 2. How the World’s Governments Buy Defence: What is the playbook for selling defence to different governments? Why is the way that governments purchase and procure so broken? If Shyam were head of the DOD, what would he change? Why does the DOD “need to pick winners”? Which governments are the best to work with? Which are the worst? 3. A World In Conflict: What Changes: How does conflict change the buying process and urgency for governments? How do elections change the buying cadence and process for different governments? Looking forward to 2024, how does Shyam predict the state of different global conflicts? 4. Hiring 101: You Have To Hire Artists: What have been Shyam’s single biggest lessons on what it takes to hire the best of the best? Why does Shyam believe that hiring great people is like talent management in Hollywood? Why does Shyam believe talent should be “shielded from budgets”? What have been some of Shyam’s biggest hiring mistakes? How did he learn from them? ----------------------------------------------- Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3j2KMcZTtgTNBKwtZBMHvl?si=85bc9196860e4466 Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-twenty-minute-vc-20vc-venture-capital-startup/id958230465 Follow Harry Stebbings on Twitter: https://twitter.com/HarryStebbings Follow Shyam Sankar on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ssankar Follow 20VC on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/20vchq Follow 20VC on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@20vc_tok Visit our Website: https://www.20vc.com Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://www.thetwentyminutevc.com/contact ----------------------------------------------- #harrystebbings #20vc #ShyamSankar #palantir

Harry StebbingshostShyam Sankarguest
Jan 16, 20241h 6mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Palantir CTO Exposes How Broken Defense Procurement Stifles Innovation, Security

  1. Palantir CTO Shyam Sankar discusses how Western defense procurement and incentive structures, especially in the U.S. and Europe, systematically block speed, innovation, and true competition in national security. He contrasts WWII-style industrial mobilization and maverick founders with today’s financialized primes, process obsession, and labor-based ‘cost-plus’ contracts that punish risk-taking. Sankar details Palantir’s alternative playbook—product-first, subscription-based software, deep user embedding, and product-led land-and-expand—as well as why the DoD must explicitly pick a few big winners if it wants a viable defense-tech ecosystem. He also explores internal topics: building an “artist colony” rather than a factory, hiring and managing asymmetric talent, continuous company reinvention, and where value will accrue in AI.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Defense procurement’s cost-plus, labor-based model destroys incentives to innovate.

When governments pay by the hour and cap profit based on audited costs, contractors are rewarded for adding bodies and complexity, not for taking risk, investing their own capital, or making things cheaper and better over time.

Governments must move to product-based, subscription-style buying to benefit from commercial R&D.

Palantir refused services revenue and forced a software-license / SaaS model, financing R&D with equity instead of government funds; this aligns incentives with building reusable products that can scale across customers and missions.

“Peanut-butter” contracting starves the emerging defense-tech ecosystem; the DoD must pick winners.

Spreading limited budget thinly across many startups creates zombie companies that can’t scale or generate venture returns; selecting and backing a few winners at meaningful scale is necessary to keep capital and talent in defense.

Process obsession trades catastrophic failure for guaranteed mediocrity.

In the name of fairness and protest-proof decisions, U.S. and especially EU processes have become so slow and complex that they preclude both fast failures and breakthrough successes, despite proving in crises that rules can be bent when leadership is serious.

Modern warfare favors cheap, rapidly iterated, often expendable systems over exquisite, long-lived platforms.

Ukraine, Israel and other conflicts show the effectiveness of single-use drones and short-lived capabilities, implying new logistics, procurement cycles, and business models that assume next year’s systems will be different from today’s.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

In an effort to have a perception of fair competition, we have created so much process that we neither have fair competition nor speed.

Shyam Sankar

Technology is supposed to make things cheaper. Somehow that doesn’t happen in government. Why?

Shyam Sankar

No great company was created primarily to make money.

Shyam Sankar (paraphrasing Alex Karp)

You can get really far with incredible content and bad process. You’re going to get nowhere with incredible process and bad content.

Shyam Sankar

Instead of being a factory, we’re going to be an artist colony.

Shyam Sankar

Structural problems in U.S. and European defense procurement and incentivesPalantir’s product-driven business model vs. traditional cost-plus defense contractsThe need for the DoD to pick winners and enable real competitionHistorical perspective: WWII mobilization, the Cold War, and ‘The Last Supper’ consolidationShifts in modern warfare: cheap, expendable systems (e.g. drones) and fast iterationOrganizational philosophy: content over process and the ‘artist colony’ talent modelAI value capture: commoditization of models and importance of the application layer

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