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The Twenty Minute VCThe Twenty Minute VC

Why VC Today is Worse than 2021

Jason Lemkin is one of the leading SaaS investors of the last decade with a portfolio including the likes of Algolia, Talkdesk, Owner, RevenueCat, Saleloft and more. Rory O’Driscoll is a General Partner @ Scale where he has led investments in category leaders such as Bill.com (BILL), Box (BOX), DocuSign (DOCU), and WalkMe (WKME), among others. ----------------------------------------------- Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:53 Everett Randle joins Benchmark 02:16 Ambition, career moves & the VC shuffle 04:15 Are VCs still the best paid? 06:25 Carry payouts & delayed returns 07:00 Revolut's $75B valuation explained 09:40 The TAM myth in startups 12:30 Why founders must expand their markets 17:05 Are AI Verticals overhyped? 19:55 The "Covid mistake" in AI investing 24:00 The rush to buy AI tools before the window closes 28:10 Will AI markets boom or deflate? 31:00 When to sell vs hold your startup 33:40 The truth about vertical SaaS 40:10 AI is changing the legal industry 41:34 OpenAI's billion dollar cloud play 46:44 Poolsuite builds its own data center 50:19 The rising cost of competing in AI ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3j2KMcZ... Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Follow Harry Stebbings on X: https://x.com/harrystebbings Follow Jason Lemkin on X: https://x.com/jasonlk Follow Rory O’Driscoll on X: https://x.com/rodriscoll Follow 20VC on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/20vchq Follow 20VC on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@20vc_tok Visit our Website: https://www.20vc.com Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://www.thetwentyminutevc.com/con... ----------------------------------------------- #20vc #harrystebbings #roryodriscoll #jasonlemkin #revolut #ai #meta #openai #supabase #investing #venturecapital

Rory O’DriscollguestJason LemkinguestHarry Stebbingshost
Oct 23, 20251h 34mWatch on YouTube ↗

CHAPTERS

  1. Benchmark adds Everett Randle: partner moves and firm resilience

    The conversation opens with Everett Randle joining Benchmark and what it signals about Benchmark’s culture, portfolio strength, and recruiting playbook. The hosts frame the move as part of a broader “VC shuffle” where ambitious investors move quickly between top firms.

  2. Is VC still the best-paid job in tech? Talent markets and compensation reality

    They debate whether venture is still the most lucrative career path compared to top AI engineering roles. Rory argues liquid, mega-equity packages at companies like Meta outcompete VC economics in the near-term, even if venture can win over decades.

  3. Carry is slow: delayed distributions, privatization, and the ‘get rich slow’ problem

    The group digs into how long it takes to see meaningful carry, especially with companies staying private longer. They discuss how paper gains don’t translate into distributions and how holding winners can delay liquidity further.

  4. Revolut at $75B: private markets replacing public markets

    Revolut’s $75B valuation becomes a case study in late-stage private funding substituting for IPOs. They explore what fundamentals justify the round and how private pricing forces everyone to underwrite massive future TAM expansion.

  5. The TAM myth vs TAM exhaustion: why market size anxiety is rising

    Jason challenges the classic belief that great founders can always expand their TAM, arguing TAM exhaustion is appearing across portfolios. Rory agrees on exhaustion risk but argues the best companies start in a niche and expand into adjacent empty space.

  6. Why Spotify won: licensing strategy, geography, and execution vs ‘great man theory’

    They briefly unpack Spotify’s early advantage: building in European markets with less aggressive label scrutiny, securing better licensing, and reaching critical mass before taking on the US. The segment reinforces their theme that outcomes combine founder skill, market structure, and timing luck.

  7. Vertical AI hype and the ‘Covid mistake’: everyone is suddenly “in-market”

    Jason argues investors are repeating 2020-style extrapolation errors: AI is putting every CIO and function “in-market” at once, inflating near-term demand signals. Rory calls it a huge point—compressed buying cycles can mislead growth forecasting and valuation setting.

  8. How founders should react: win fast, model onboarding costs, and know when to sell

    They pivot from investor theory to founder strategy: if the market window is compressed, leaders must move quickly to lock in customers before decisions are made. They also emphasize overlooked implementation and change-management costs, and Jason introduces a sell/hold rule based on TAM acceleration.

  9. Vertical SaaS ‘truth’ in the AI era: Toast as the benchmark and the valuation trap

    They debate whether vertical SaaS can still generate venture-scale outcomes when exits effectively require far larger revenue. Jason argues many verticals are overfunded relative to realistic ceilings; Rory agrees the businesses can be valuable but warns against paying prices near total TAM.

  10. OpenAI’s cloud shift: Oracle vs Microsoft and who carries the balance-sheet risk

    They interpret reports that OpenAI may spend more with Oracle than Microsoft as Microsoft refusing economically irrational capex. The hosts argue OpenAI is exceptionally good at offloading infrastructure risk to partners while preserving its own upside.

  11. Poolside builds a data center: AI’s rising capital intensity and compute scarcity

    Poolside’s plan to build a massive AI data center becomes evidence that competing at the model/application layer may now require owning infrastructure. Rory frames it as a terrifying escalation from software economics to fixed-asset economics, likely driven by inability to secure enough compute capacity.

  12. Boom, bust, and ‘temporal diversification’: surviving corrections in AI investing

    They discuss what a real AI/data-center bust would look like (mild glut, falling prices, halted capex), while agreeing the timing is unknowable. Rory argues the key is balancing aggressiveness with survivability, but notes the industry is compressing fund cycles and abandoning temporal diversification.

  13. Content boundaries and privacy: OpenAI allows erotica and the moderation hot seat

    The hosts close with a discussion on OpenAI permitting erotica, using it as a proxy for broader boundary-pushing in AI outputs. They highlight how AI differs from social platforms because the model generates content directly, increasing accountability and making moderation far harder.

  14. Rapid-fire bets: Replit to $1B ARR, Deel vs Rippling, and what ‘early’ means now

    In a game-format finale, they debate whether Replit can hit $1B ARR quickly and how AI tools change early-stage evaluation. They also compare Deel and Rippling via TAM defensibility and pain intensity, ending on the paradox that even $1B ARR can feel ‘early’ under today’s venture expectations.

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