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“How We Can Eliminate Crime” | Ben Horowitz and Garrett Langley

What if America tried to eliminate crime instead of just reacting to it? Not with slogans, but with staffing, technology, and strategy scaled to the problem. In this episode, Erik Torenberg speaks with Garrett Langley, founder and CEO of Flock Safety, and Ben Horowitz, cofounder of a16z, about what is happening in the cities that are trying. Flock now works with over 5,000 communities to detect crime, recover missing children, and close cases faster than ever. Ben has been closely involved in Las Vegas, where Flock technology, drones, and community policing have raised clearance rates while reducing use of force. They outline what a real national crime-reduction strategy could look like: solving the police staffing crisis, using intelligence to make policing safer, understanding why clearance rates have collapsed, and how public–private partnerships are filling gaps cities cannot. They also tackle the hard questions around privacy, criminal justice failures, and the hidden role of organized crime in everyday offenses. Timecodes: 0:00 — Introduction: The Cost of Not Enforcing Crime 1:29 — Teach for America Model for Law Enforcement 3:56 — The People Problem: Cultural Shift in Policing 8:28 — Technology Stack: Products for Crime Prevention 12:11 — Deterrence vs. Incarceration 16:15 — Intelligence-Based Policing 19:57 — Why Crime Clearance Rates Are Dropping 25:00 — Vegas Case Study: Community Response 28:10 — Private Funding for Police Innovation 34:05 — Addressing Privacy and Trust Concerns 38:53 — Prison Reform and Rehabilitation 43:44 — Crime Statistics and Reporting Issues 47:08 — Data Retention and Sharing Policies 51:52 — Organized Crime and Sophisticated Operations 54:16 — The Future of Policing: Intelligence and Precision 57:07 — Success Stories: Saving Missing Children Read the full transcript here: https://www.a16z.news/s/podcast Resources: Follow Garrett on X: https://twitter.com/glangley Follow Ben on X: https://twitter.com/bhorowitz Stay Updated: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, and share with your friends! Find a16z on X: https://twitter.com/a16z Find a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16z Listen to the a16z Podcast on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5bC65RDvs3oxnLyqqvkUYX Listen to the a16z Podcast on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a16z-podcast/id842818711 Follow our host: https://x.com/eriktorenberg Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details, please see a16z.com/disclosures.

Ben HorowitzguestGarrett LangleyguestErik Torenberghost
Dec 17, 202558mWatch on YouTube ↗

CHAPTERS

  1. Deterrence as the humane alternative to “lost generations”

    Ben Horowitz and Garrett Langley frame crime enforcement as a societal incentives problem: when the odds of getting caught are low, crime becomes a rational career path and corrodes communities. They argue the goal isn’t mass incarceration, but credible certainty of capture that prevents people from entering the system in the first place.

    • Weak enforcement creates “lost generations” by normalizing crime as an economic path
    • Deterrence is positioned as more humane than long sentences and lifelong stigma
    • Culture follows incentives: if crime pays and isn’t punished, social stigma collapses
    • Clearance rates (especially for serious crime) shape criminal behavior and community trust
  2. A “Teach for America” pipeline to solve policing’s staffing crisis

    Langley proposes a national service-style recruiting program for law enforcement: trade student debt relief for 2–4 years of service in a police department, including non-sworn roles. The idea targets both staffing shortages and capability gaps while boosting the status of public safety work.

    • Student-debt relief as a lever to attract high-potential recruits into public safety
    • Broader set of roles: patrol, analysts, civilian specialists—not just armed officers
    • National staffing initiative to stabilize hiring and professionalize talent pipelines
    • Shorter on-ramp via civilian tracks and more modular training for some functions
  3. The real “people problem”: culture, stigma, and lowered standards

    They argue the hiring crisis is primarily cultural—driven by stigma, early retirements after social unrest/COVID, and a narrative shift from “hero” to “villain.” Horowitz warns shortages can force departments to lower standards, which can compound misconduct and further damage legitimacy.

    • Cultural vilification drives early retirements and weakens recruitment pipelines
    • Short staffing pressures can lead to lowered standards and worse outcomes
    • Examples cited: hiring mistakes and historical scandals (e.g., Rampart)
    • Rebuilding legitimacy requires improved image plus higher-quality staffing
  4. Recruiting through modernization: tech, visibility, and the “Cybertruck effect”

    Horowitz describes using high-visibility modernization (vehicles, tech deployments) to make policing appealing and community-facing. They claim flashy but practical investments can improve recruitment, increase community engagement, and shift perceptions faster than abstract messaging.

    • Modern equipment and tech-forward identity can attract younger recruits
    • Community events and public touchpoints increase when police appear approachable/cool
    • Criticism in media vs. positive community reception can diverge sharply
    • Marketing and morale improvements are treated as operational necessities, not luxuries
  5. Building a city’s crime-prevention technology stack (sensors → AI orchestration)

    The conversation shifts to “products”: address crime type-by-type with sensors like gunshot detection, cameras, and drones. The missing piece, they argue, is an AI/orchestration layer that turns abundant data into actionable intelligence while supporting transparency and accountability.

    • Match tools to crime problems: gun violence, auto theft, real-time response
    • Sensors create data abundance; AI is needed to triage, search, and coordinate
    • Drones and camera networks enable faster, safer situational awareness
    • Transparency/accountability are presented as essential to sustain legitimacy
  6. Deterrence vs. incarceration: why certainty of punishment matters more than severity

    They criticize systems that combine low capture rates with long prison sentences, calling it both economically costly and socially destructive. Their preferred model is “you will get caught,” which changes behavior upstream and reduces reliance on prison as the primary tool.

    • Long sentences create lasting barriers (jobs, housing, voting) and fuel recidivism
    • High certainty of capture can reduce crime without expanding incarceration
    • “Certain punishment means no punishment” (certainty reduces need for severity)
    • Enforcement and social services are complementary, but enforcement can’t be removed
  7. Intelligence-based policing + community cooperation (Vegas as proof point)

    Horowitz argues intelligence improves safety for suspects, officers, and bystanders by reducing uncertainty and mistaken stops. They connect high clearance rates in Las Vegas to community policing—people share information when trust and professionalism are strong.

    • Objective intelligence reduces false stops and volatile, uncertain encounters
    • Claimed effect: fewer police shootings when situational awareness improves
    • Community policing increases witness cooperation and case solvability
    • Victims are disproportionately poor; enforcement failures harm vulnerable communities most
  8. Why clearance rates are collapsing nationwide

    Langley offers multiple drivers of declining clearance rates: higher evidence standards, reduced witness cooperation, a shift toward more random/organized violence, evidence overload outpacing tools, and the loss of experienced detectives due to retirement and staffing gaps.

    • Higher evidentiary expectations (DNA/video) raise the bar—good but demanding
    • Witness cooperation declines because risks outweigh personal benefit
    • Crime mix shift: fewer “domestic/obvious suspect” cases, more random/gang-related cases
    • Evidence volume exceeds investigative capacity; staffing shortages hollow out expertise
  9. Vegas case study: visible community support and practical ROI

    Horowitz says the biggest surprise in Vegas is how strongly residents—especially working-class locals—support the technology approach despite national press criticism. He emphasizes that small, targeted investments can create outsized operational improvements and public confidence quickly.

    • Vegas faces unique dynamics: tourism-driven and “crime tourism” patterns
    • Residents value the promise: crimes may happen, but escaping is difficult
    • Private philanthropy can unlock tech adoption that budgets can’t start
    • Small quality-of-life upgrades (e.g., 911 workplace basics) can transform performance
  10. Private funding as a catalyst for police innovation (and why cities can’t start alone)

    They describe public-private partnerships as a pragmatic bridge: private dollars fund initial deployment, then cities decide whether to absorb costs later. Examples include police foundations and corporate support (e.g., major employers funding local safety improvements).

    • City budgets are rigid and dominated by headcount; innovation is hard to initiate
    • Private funding can cover the first 1–2 years, proving value before budget adoption
    • Police foundations can fund equipment gaps and tech pilots quickly
    • San Francisco’s “quietly” privately funded innovations are cited as a trend
  11. Privacy vs. trust: what surveillance debates are really about

    Langley argues most criticism labeled “privacy” is actually distrust in local police institutions. They claim license-plate readers operate in public spaces and are less invasive than other modern tracking, while emphasizing transparency tools as a mechanism to build public confidence.

    • Core critique reframed: trust in police, not the existence of data itself
    • Public-space data collection vs. more invasive alternatives (e.g., cell phone location)
    • Transparency pages and usage policies as trust-building infrastructure
    • Risk of “defund” leading to privatized security for the wealthy and less protection for the poor
  12. Prison reform and rehabilitation: separating enforcement from corrections failures

    Horowitz and Langley support reforms that reduce recidivism and avoid turning non-violent offenders into hardened criminals. They highlight programs that redirect first-time, non-violent cases into structured pathways (work/school/home) and point to successful reentry models.

    • US recidivism is framed as a rehabilitation failure, not an inevitability
    • Non-violent youth incarceration can accelerate criminalization and violence
    • Examples: Hope for Prisoners (near-zero recidivism claim), Delancey Street model
    • Judicial backlog is itself criminogenic; speeding case processing is a priority
  13. Crime stats, underreporting, and “gaslighting” about public safety

    They argue official crime numbers can be misleading due to underreporting, changed recording practices post-2020, and non-prosecution discouraging victims from calling police. They recommend using victimization surveys and lived experience as critical reality checks.

    • Underreporting rises when victims believe police/prosecutors won’t act
    • Changes in reporting/charging practices can distort trend lines
    • Victimization surveys may diverge from official stats and better reflect reality
    • Safety perceptions (walking at night, kids commuting) are treated as legitimate metrics
  14. Policy knobs in tech: data retention, data sharing, and cross-border crime

    Langley describes configurable governance levers: how long data is retained and who it can be shared with. They argue local values and state laws should determine settings, but warn that strict borders for data sharing can hinder solving crimes that cross jurisdictions.

    • Retention periods vary: 7–90 days (some CA agencies) to multi-year mandates (NJ)
    • Efficacy is linked to retention since crimes are often reported after the fact
    • Sharing controls can be local/state-limited, but criminals operate across borders
    • Case examples used to argue that poor interagency sharing prolongs unsolved crimes
  15. Organized and sophisticated crime: from retail theft to logistics fraud

    They contend modern crime includes highly organized, business-like operations that exploit weak enforcement and policy loopholes. Examples include retail theft rings and sophisticated cargo/logistics schemes that appear legitimate on paper while moving stolen goods at scale.

    • Retail theft framed as organized fencing operations, not isolated “need-based” incidents
    • Policy changes can create openings for coordinated criminal enterprises
    • Logistics fraud example: buy a legitimate company, divert goods, resell at scale
    • Low-level perpetrators may be disposable labor for higher-level organized networks
  16. The future of policing: intelligent, precise, and drone-enabled real-time response

    Langley envisions a system where integrated sensors, shared hotlists, and real-time crime centers enable precision interventions. Drones and analytics reduce the need for risky, force-heavy responses and can shift officers’ time from paperwork toward community presence.

    • Integrated data + real-time operations enable faster, safer interventions
    • Drone-first response can reduce lethal outcomes and collateral disruption (e.g., malls)
    • Analytics can surface suspect descriptors and history to guide low-risk apprehension
    • “Agentic” software layer suggested to cover undesirable shifts and reduce workload
  17. Success stories: recovering missing children and high-stakes real-world impact

    They close with outcomes they view as unambiguously positive, especially rapid recovery of missing children and incidents where fast identification prevents escalation. These stories are used to argue that the benefits of real-time intelligence become obvious when stakes are personal.

    • Claim: hundreds of missing children recovered with the help of the tech network
    • Carjacking/kidnapping scenarios highlight time-critical location intelligence
    • Critiques often fade when people experience victimization directly
    • Framing: safety expectations should rise with technology, not be normalized downward

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