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Why the People Who Built Hip-Hop Ended Up With Nothing

Ben Horowitz and Erik Torenberg sit down with Nas, Grandmaster Caz, and Steve Stoute for a conversation about the Paid in Full Foundation and its mission to recognize and support the pioneers who built hip-hop. Ben, Nas, and Steve share how the foundation began, why simply giving artists money wasn’t enough, and how the Hip Hop Grandmaster Awards became a way to pair financial support with the recognition many foundational artists never received. Caz brings the perspective of one of those pioneers, reflecting on his role in hip-hop’s earliest history and what receiving the award has meant for his life and legacy. They also discuss the enormous cultural and commercial impact of hip-hop beyond music, from language and fashion to some of the world’s biggest brands, why so many of its pioneers captured so little of that value, and what happens when generations of hip-hop finally come together in the same room. Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 01:00 - Meet the Paid In Full Foundation 01:43 - The Origin Story: $5M in Value, $10 for the Album 09:49 - Grandmaster Caz & the Rhymes That Became Rapper's Delight 17:16 - What This Foundation Actually Does for Its Honorees 25:08 - Celebrating the Legends: Melle Mel, Roxanne, D.O.C. 33:05 - The Quincy Jones Award & Annual Tradition 40:05 - Grandmaster Caz: "Hip Hop Don't Have Social Security" 45:21 - Tommy Hilfiger, the Culture & Who Owes Back 50:48 - How Ben, Steve & Nas Became Friends for Life 56:15 - PaidInFullFoundation.org: How to Get Involved Resources: Learn more about the Paid in Full Foundation: https://paidinfullfoundation.org Follow Nas on X: https://x.com/Nas Follow Steve Stoute: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevestoute/ Follow Ben Horowitz on X: https://x.com/bhorowitz Stay Updated: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, and share with your friends! Find a16z on X: https://twitter.com/a16z Find a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16z Listen to the a16z Show on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5bC65RDvs3oxnLyqqvkUYX Listen to the a16z Show on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a16z-podcast/id842818711 Follow our host: https://x.com/eriktorenberg Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see http://a16z.com/disclosures.

Ben HorowitzguestSteve StouteguestErik TorenberghostNasguestGrandmaster Cazguest
Sep 20, 202657mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Paid in Full fights hip-hop’s exploitation by honoring and funding pioneers

  1. Paid in Full Foundation was created to honor hip-hop’s originators and ensure they are “paid in full” financially, culturally, and spiritually through grants and public recognition.
  2. Ben Horowitz says the idea began with realizing he got outsized life and career value from foundational hip-hop (e.g., the album Paid in Full) while pioneers often received little in return.
  3. Nas pushed the model beyond writing checks, arguing that hip-hop requires visible honor and celebration, which led to the Hip-Hop Grandmaster Awards and artist-led selection involvement.
  4. The conversation spotlights industry failures—from stolen authorship (Grandmaster Caz’s rhymes used in “Rapper’s Delight”) to brands and labels profiting off culture without reinvesting in the people who built it.
  5. The foundation emphasizes hands-on care and community-building, including medical/urgent support and an annual gathering that reunites legends and influences new generations to contribute.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Paid in Full starts from a moral debt: hip-hop created enormous value that never flowed back to its creators.

Horowitz frames the gap starkly: a $10 album can generate millions of dollars of personal and economic value for listeners and industries, while many originators of the genre see little long-term financial security. Paid in Full is designed to “pay it back” in ways that match hip-hop’s cultural scale.

In hip-hop, money alone isn’t enough—recognition is part of the payment.

Nas argues that hip-hop support can’t feel like a quiet handout; it must come with public acknowledgment and status restoration. That belief shaped the model: a major annual celebration plus direct financial support.

Deep distrust among pioneers is a feature of the problem—and the foundation had to design around it.

Stoute describes early outreach where honorees assumed it was a scam, reflecting long-term exploitation and distrust. The foundation learned that celebrating artists in the “right light” makes support feel legitimate and dignified, increasing acceptance.

The program mixes multi-year financial stability with reputational lift that keeps compounding.

Recipients receive a grant paid over five years; Caz says it enabled a life change—buying a home and leaving the projects—plus a “cushion” that reduces day-to-day hustle pressure. The grant is paired with a reputational boost that leads to more opportunities.

The foundation functions like a safety net—sometimes literally life-saving—not just a ceremony.

Beyond awards, the group emphasizes relational care—Felicia Horowitz’s role includes personal check-ins and urgent support. Ben recounts Felicia persuading Scarface to see doctors for a heart issue, arriving just as his aorta burst, likely saving his life.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

I think in life it's impossible to do anything great if you start with what's possible. You have to start with what's right.

Ben Horowitz

I bought, uh, Paid in Full, the album, for $10 and I got, you know, in my career... I probably got at least $5 million worth of value out of that record. Uh, but there was no way to pay it back. Um, and it needed to be paid back.

Ben Horowitz

Hip-hop don't have Social Security. You know what I mean? Hip hop don't have no, um, uh, health benefits or none of that. You have to work.

Grandmaster Caz

The first hip hop hit was stolen from him, and he didn't get what he deserved.

Steve Stoute

My, my, my, the last thoughts in my head for the last, like, 10, 15 years, I don't wanna die in the projects.

Grandmaster Caz

Paid in Full Foundation origin storyHip-Hop Grandmaster Awards modelRecognition vs. “handouts” in hip-hopGrandmaster Caz and “Rapper’s Delight” authorshipMulti-year grants and life impactFelicia Horowitz’s hands-on support and health interventionsBrands and industries profiting from hip-hop culture (Adidas, Sprite, Tommy Hilfiger)

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