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Aakash GuptaAakash Gupta

Zapier's CEO Will Grade Your AI PM Skills Live

Zapier CEO Wade Foster wrote the AI fluency rubric that kicked off a wave of companies grading PMs on how they use AI. In this episode, he grades 3 PM artifacts live, from a PRD written with ChatGPT to a full agent stack with a nightly triage swarm, and explains why only about one PM in 30-40 should earn a transformative rating. Then he opens up his own robot staff, including the scribe that cut two hours of end-of-day cleanup to 15 minutes. Full Writeup: https://www.news.aakashg.com/p/zapier-ai-fluency-rubric-for-pms Transcript: https://www.aakashg.com/how-zapiers-ceo-grades-pms-on-ai-fluency/ Timestamps 00:00 - Intro 02:39 - How Zapier measures AI fluency 06:53 - Where most PMs should sit on the curve 09:17 - Ads 11:23 - How one PM built Zapier's company brain 13:22 - Grading PRD one, written with ChatGPT 24:43 - Slop cannon or turbo brain 29:55 - Grading PRD two, prototype plus customer evidence 38:03 - Grading PRD three, the full PM agent stack 46:07 - Why not every PM should build the factory 48:17 - Wade's robot staff, from morning brief to scribe 57:06 - Why Wade vibe coded a CEO CRM 1:01:56 - Why transformative is an n of one 1:03:45 - Zapier since 2021, headless SaaS and new competitors 1:12:55 - Outro 🏆 Thanks to our sponsors Arize - Ship AI agents and features faster with fewer regressions - https://arize.com/?utm_source=aakashgupta&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=arize_sponsor_ai Get a full year of Arize’s paid plan, along with 8 other AI tools, at bundle.aakashg.com Key Takeaways 1. Basic AI use is the floor, not the bar - Summarizing, drafting, looking things up and generating a basic PRD are table stakes at Zapier in 2026. Everything above that line needs structured, reusable systems for specs, prototypes and research. 2. Adaptive is where the curve should sit - Zapier wants most PMs at adaptive most of the time, with one transformative example to point to. Living at transformative full time means you are tuning your systems instead of shipping. 3. Transformative means an n of one - Wade's bar is that you are the first person doing a new thing and figuring it out as you go. On a team of 30 to 40 PMs, that is roughly one rating a half, and Wade grades himself as adaptive in most places. 4. You should be ahead of your CEO inside your own discipline - Wade should be behind his PMs on PM-specific AI fluency. When he spots a technique that is obvious to him and new to the PM, he gets nervous. 5. Never stop at the PRD - A document alone reads old-fashioned in 2026. Build the prototype with a coding agent, even though production code is not the PM's job, because seeing is believing. 6. Evidence got cheap, so there is no excuse - Sift Gong calls, Zendesk tickets, subreddits, LinkedIn and X before asking anyone for buy-in. The buy-in conversation now happens after you have proof, not before you start. 7. Judgment separates a turbo brain from a slop cannon - AI plus judgment looks like watching a new species get invented. AI without judgment generates so much noise that it is harder to work with than a teammate who uses no AI at all. 8. Label the effort level when you share AI-assisted work - Say whether you skimmed it once or stand behind every sentence. Handing over unreviewed output just moves the judgment onto the reader. 9. The job shifts from doing tasks to auditing the factory - When agents handle spec, prototype, eval and first-draft code, your job is to ask why the machine produced a bad batch. Where to put the human gates is the design question nobody has solved yet. 10. The new no-code is code, and the user is now the agent - Zapier's bet is deterministic execution in the cloud, so workflows run reliably without burning tokens or keeping a laptop open. If your software cannot run headless, you are swimming against the current. 👨‍💻 Where to find Wade Foster LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wadefoster X: https://x.com/wadefoster 👨‍💻 Where to find Aakash Twitter: https://x.com/aakashgupta LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aagupta/ Newsletter: https://news.aakashg.com #AIFluency #ProductManagement 🧠 About Product Growth The world's largest podcast focused solely on product + growth, with over 200K+ listeners. 🔔 Subscribe and turn on notifications.

Aakash GuptahostWade Fosterguest
Sep 14, 20261h 14mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Zapier CEO grades AI PM fluency: from PRDs to factories

  1. Zapier’s updated AI fluency rubric grades PMs from unacceptable to transformative based on concrete behaviors, with basic AI drafting now considered table stakes in 2026.
  2. Wade Foster critiques a PRD-only, ChatGPT-assisted spec as outdated and shows that stronger AI-PM work pairs prototypes with rapid, AI-assisted customer evidence gathering.
  3. The episode frames AI output quality as a judgment problem—poor judgment creates “AI slop,” while good judgment turns AI into a “turbo brain,” and teams need norms that disclose verification effort.
  4. Transformative AI fluency is depicted as building a product ‘factory’ of agents, memory, and gates that compresses idea-to-shipping cycles, though the optimal system design is still an open question.
  5. Zapier’s strategic response to new automation competitors is to become more headless and agent-friendly, emphasizing deterministic execution, governance, and an unmatched integrations library.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

AI fluency is measured by behaviors and leverage—not tool familiarity.

Foster’s V2 rubric ranks people by observable behaviors: (1) basic AI usage (summaries/first drafts), (2) structured, reusable workflows and faster iteration, (3) system-building that changes how the org ships. Zapier updates the rubric frequently because capabilities and expectations move quickly.

High-performing PM orgs live in the adaptive middle, not perpetual ‘transformative.’

Zapier expects most PMs to operate “adaptive” most of the time, with occasional “transformative” spikes. Constantly chasing transformative can become counterproductive because you spend all your time tuning systems instead of delivering outcomes.

In 2026, PRD-only work is insufficient; prototype + evidence is the new baseline.

A PRD that’s mostly AI-generated reads as “old-fashioned” in 2026 unless it’s paired with a prototype and customer evidence. The CEO lens is: how far did you push the idea (prototype), and how grounded is it (signals from calls/tickets/forums/data)?

You can delegate the work to AI, but not the accountability—or the judgment.

Foster distinguishes delegating work from delegating responsibility: AI can draft, search, and build—but the PM must apply taste/judgment, filter slop, and stand behind decisions. Teams are developing new etiquette: explicitly label effort/verification level when sharing AI-assisted work.

Transformative is systems design: building the loop that builds product.

Transformative PM work starts to resemble a “product factory”: agents ingest signals, cluster insights, generate specs, prototype, create evals, draft code/PRs, and feed learnings back into memory—with human gates placed intentionally. The hard, unsolved problem is designing the loop (where gates go, cost vs speed, and reliability).

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

There is still something to be said about, like, really understanding the customer problem, really having some intuition around how to go solve those problems. And if you combine those, you get excellence. But if you just let AI kinda just do everything, you're probably gonna get kinda mediocrity. You're gonna get what people call AI slop.

Wade Foster

The line we use at Zapier on slop, you can delegate the work, but you can't delegate the accountability.

Wade Foster

You probably want to be, in your discipline, you probably want to be farther ahead than your CEO is.

Wade Foster

It's almost like you're, you're witnessing a new species being invented.

Wade Foster

To me, transformative is like you are literally an N of one. You're the first of its kind doing this new thing, uh, and you're figuring it out.

Wade Foster

AI fluency rubric (unacceptable → capable → adaptive → transformative)PRD critique and the new baseline (prototype + evidence)Judgment, taste, and ‘AI slop’ accountabilityCompany brain vs individual second brainsAgentic product factory loops and human gatesDeterministic execution vs agentic reasoning costsHeadless SaaS, MCP servers, and new automation competition

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