Skip to content
ADHD Chatter PodcastADHD Chatter Podcast

5 Signs You're A High-Masking Autistic With ADHD (AuDHD Expert Explains)

Dr Khurram is a world-renowned, award-winning psychiatrist and the author of Explaining AuDHD. In this episode, he explains what AuDHD (Autism + ADHD) really feels like beyond the diagnostic labels, why so many people spend years masking their traits, and the emotional cost of living without understanding themselves. We explore the hidden signs of AuDHD, why so many people feel broken, misunderstood, and lonely, how an AuDHD diagnosis can transform relationships and identity, and what it truly takes to stop masking and start thriving. Chapters: 00:00 Trailer 01:43 The AuDHD contradiction nobody talks about 04:14 What people with AuDHD are terrified of being judged for 06:29 The AuDHD assessment Dr Khurram will never forget 07:37 What almost every AuDHD adult blames themselves for 08:32 Why so many people with AuDHD think they're a bad friend 10:01 The hidden danger of never finding your AuDHD tribe 10:34 Why masking AuDHD is so exhausting 13:43 The most heartbreaking part of living with AuDHD 16:22 Why loneliness feels different with AuDHD 19:10 Why partners often misunderstand AuDHD 22:07 Tiimo advert 23:59 5 hidden signs you're masking AuDHD 25:03 How an AuDHD diagnosis changes relationships 30:13 The moment you realise your whole life was masking 34:45 What AuDHD burnout really feels like 36:45 The true cost of never unmasking AuDHD 39:08 Stop fighting your AuDHD brain 40:56 Why so many people with AuDHD believe they're broken 45:07 If you were diagnosed late, you need to hear this 45:42 The hardest part of living with AuDHD 47:10 A letter to my younger self Dr Khurram on LinkedIn 👉 https://uk.linkedin.com/in/dr-khurram-sadiq Dr Khurram’s book 👉 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Explaining-AuDHD-Guide-Autism-ADHD/dp/1804369489 Dr Khurram on Instagram 👉 https://www.instagram.com/fomosapien666/?hl=en Book to see Dr Khurram in clinic: For an ADHD assessment 👉 https://adhdhealthclinic.co.uk/adhd-treatment-options/in-person-adhd-assessment/ For an Autism assessment 👉 https://adhdhealthclinic.co.uk/autism/in-person-autism-assessment/ For a combined ADHD and autism assessment 👉 https://adhdhealthclinic.co.uk/autism/in-person-combined-autism-adhd-assessment/ Get 30% off an annual Tiimo subscription 👉 https://www.tiimoapp.com/offers/adhdchatter Buy Alex's book entitled 'Now It All Makes Sense' 👉 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Now-All-Makes-Sense-Diagnosis/dp/1399817817 Order Alex’s latest book about Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria 👉 https://linktr.ee/adhdchatter?utm_source=linktree_profile_share&ltsid=9ffd8709-06df-444c-9936-c136fbd14d6e Producer: Timon Woodward  Recorded by: Hamlin Studios Trailer editor: Ryan Faber DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or qualified healthcare provider. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

Dr. Khurram SadiqguestAlex Partridgehost
Jul 6, 202647mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 1:43

    Trailer

    1. KS

      A diagnosis of AuDHD doesn't lead to things joining together. And I've seen people separating, divorcing. Now it's all in the open, both the parties aren't able to live with that reality.

    2. AP

      If there was a child and you could only tell them one thing about AuDHD, what would that be?

    3. KS

      That AuDHD is not a mixture. It's a completely different neurobiology, which comes with a different presentation. It comes with a push and a pull that you do not experience in either autism or ADHD. It can be balancing act if you get it right, but if you get it wrong, it can be devastating for you.

    4. AP

      "I wasn't lonely because nobody loved me. I was lonely because so few people truly knew me." Why do you think so many people with AuDHD feel lonely?

    5. KS

      It's multiple factors. I, I think-

    6. AP

      Can I have just a second of your time? If this podcast has helped you understand your brain or made you feel less alone, can you do me one favor? Can you hit the subscribe button? And I'll repay the favor by continuing to book the best and most exclusive conversations on this topic. Please enjoy the episode, and always remember, you're not broken, just different, and you have always been enough. [upbeat music] Dr. Khurram Sadiq. Last time, we did a fascinating episode on AuDHD, which is the dual diagnosis of-

    7. KS

      Yes

    8. AP

      ... autism and ADHD.

    9. KS

      Sure.

    10. AP

      And there was one comment on the YouTube video that really stood out. "I want stability, but I'm bored to death at my job. I want connection, but I'm terrified of intimacy. I want order, but I can't keep things orderly, no matter how hard I try. I want to be myself, but I'm always afraid of being too much." What are some examples of ADHD and autism pulling a person in opposite directions?

  2. 1:43 – 4:14

    The AuDHD contradiction nobody talks about

    1. KS

      The need for social interaction, but then not able to manage that interaction. I think that is, that is the key. Because what happens is that pe- people love to socially interact. They have the energy. ADHD provides them with the energy. They like the idea of socializing. They like the idea of being with people. And just before interaction happens, um, they start to have cold feet. A lot of time, the times they just cancel the point. They do not go. They kind of make an excuse. But sometimes when they go, they feel kind of as if they're being judged. They are in the middle of something that they do not understand. People do not understand them. The structure is not created for them. Um, and even if they find some like-minded people, because small talk is, is, for an autistic person, is the worst case scenario. Like, they don't know how to navigate-

    2. AP

      Yes

    3. KS

      ... small talk.

    4. AP

      Yeah. [laughs]

    5. KS

      The bridging is very difficult.

    6. AP

      Mm.

    7. KS

      And I've met some people who, who have, who have created scripts for themselves, and they ask everybody the same script. And when somebody was then narrating it to me, and I remember my father, and now he would meet somebody, after the name, the first thing he would ask was, "Where are you from?" He had so much knowledge around the geography of the areas and the dialects of languages and everything, he could start a conversation from there. And some people, they script it so that they come to a common ground, they can start communicating. But a lot of the times they cannot sustain the small talk for more than a few minutes. And then the social interaction has time limit to it. It is as much energy that you have, especially when the ADHD is generating that. Once you, the social battery is gone, all of a sudden you shut down. You don't want to be there. All of a sudden, people see a different side to you, from being very bubbly and conversational to very aloof, very recluse, and wanting to leave the place as soon as possible. And then you take days to recover them from that social interaction. I think this is one of the most debilitating things that I've seen in AuDHD.

    8. AP

      You mentioned that someone with AuDHD is concerned about being

  3. 4:14 – 6:29

    What people with AuDHD are terrified of being judged for

    1. AP

      judged-

    2. KS

      Yeah

    3. AP

      ... when they go into a social-

    4. KS

      Yeah

    5. AP

      ... encounter. What do you think they're worried about being judged for?

    6. KS

      As I explained to the people that I see, that it feels like, it, it, it is not a science as, it is not an evidence-based, but I'm pretty sure at some stage, five years, 10 years from now, we'll, we'll be able to see that there's a DNA connected, there's a genetic link to having a lack of social template in, in autistic individuals. So that lack of social template means that they don't have a map to navigate the social inputs. Somehow, other people, non-autistic people, you put them in a situation, they, they just fly through, they breeze through it. Whereas others, they have to define the situation, then they have to define how they have to behave, how they have to converse with people, um, how they have to carry themselves in those conversation, what are the things that they like to wear in those situation. And if, for example, if, if, if it is, it's a black tie event and you have not been a person who's, who's, who likes to wear suits because you find it very authoritarian, then again, you're uncomfortable anyways in those situations. And, uh, there's so many questions going on in your mind. What are people thinking about me? Am I doing it right? Is this the right thing to do? Is it the right thing to sit down? Um, or what will people think of me if I'm sitting aloof in a corner reading or going through my phone or just, um, having a time for my, to myself? So those are the questions that, that, that actually determines that, and they feel that they're being judged in that particular situation.

    7. AP

      And that feeling of being judged, does that make the person feel guilty about themselves? Uh-

    8. KS

      Not guilty. I think it impacts on their self-esteem, it impacts on their self-confidence. It makes them believe that they're not wanted, they don't want to be here. Um, uh, the world is not made for them. No matter how hard they try, they feel that they're not gonna understand the codes that exist in the neurotypical

  4. 6:29 – 7:37

    The AuDHD assessment Dr Khurram will never forget

    1. KS

      world. I was in a consultation yesterday, and it was a three and a half, three and a half hours consultation. One of the most beautiful cons- consultations that I have, where you, you feel that you're connected. And both cried. Like again, when the person was explaining it to me and they were tearful, and I became tearful because I could understand exactly. I could feel the empathy. I could feel it happening to me in the past. It brought back the memories. And, uh, and it's so real that the feeling that you do not belong in this world, the feeling that no matter how hard you try, it's not gonna get better, 'cause people will not understand you. All the onus is on you to understand them. So that's, that's, that actually is a killer for a lot of people. Killer in a way that destroys the, the, it destroys the person, their confidence, their self-belief, their self-esteem, their strengths. And the, all they look at is the negativity in their life.

  5. 7:37 – 8:32

    What almost every AuDHD adult blames themselves for

    1. AP

      What do you think are the biggest things that someone with AuDHD blames themself for?

    2. KS

      Their inability to be able to understand people. It's their inability to be part of a social situation. It's their inability to find the code which is actually missing in their template. They don't have it, hence they keep on finding it, but if you don't see it, if it doesn't exist, how can you find it? And then that's why they have to create their own codes. And then those codes that they create, they're not kind of compliant with the society, 'cause they're seen as different. Like, that's why they're called weird and, um, they're called different and they're called, um, somebody who's inapt, who's inapt to kind of socially work towards it. They have been called so many labels. Like, when children, lazy. A teenager, disruptive. So all of these kind of labels hide the person underneath.

  6. 8:32 – 10:01

    Why so many people with AuDHD think they're a bad friend

    1. AP

      What about being a bad friend? Can that be something that weighs on someone with AuDHD? They might not have the, the, the, the consistency to keep up a friendship or the way to communicate h- their needs and their-

    2. KS

      Yeah, like-

    3. AP

      ... emotions

    4. KS

      ... it, it's funny that you ask that. One of the questions that I ask people, especially in the AuDHD assessment, and it's a funny one, it's a controversial one, say, "Do you like people?"

    5. AP

      [laughs]

    6. KS

      And [laughs] like all of a sudden, they, they, they just, most of them, they just burst into laughter and s- And again, it's a lot to do with small talk. Once you find your tribe, that's the important thing. Who are your friends? What is the definition of a friend? And again, in AuDHD, that's again, the differentiation between an acquaintance and a friend can be very blurring, 'cause they don't understand that. And by the time they understand, sometimes it's too late for them. And a lot of the time when they find their tribe, they don't have the pressure that they have to WhatsApp every day, they have to text every day, they have to call every day. Probably they meet every, in three, three months' time or four months' time or five months' time, and they'll reconnect where they started from, and it will be the same chemistry, it will be the same dynamics. And other times, when they're not in their tribe, somehow the activity within the group, it tells them that they're lagging behind, as if they do not care-

    7. AP

      Mm

    8. KS

      ... as if they're not a good friend, as if they should not be there.

  7. 10:01 – 10:34

    The hidden danger of never finding your AuDHD tribe

    1. AP

      If someone never finds their tribe, like if someone just goes through life and they never, ever have that understanding of, "I am AuDHD," and, and they're al- almost masking way, way too much, like, what... How can it have an impact on the trajectory of someone's life if they just go through their life and, and they, they're masking too much, they don't realize who is good for them and who isn't, and they never find their tribe?

    2. KS

      Really hope not. I really hope it doesn't happen to anybody, because it's a scary proposition. It's a scary proposition in a way that they have to

  8. 10:34 – 13:43

    Why masking AuDHD is so exhausting

    1. KS

      have the burden of masking. And when people say masking, it's not just wearing a mask, it's the energy that goes into that. It deflates you completely. Whereas people are concentrating on something else, at work, for example, they're concentrating at their work. Half of the energy of neurodivergent are utilized in kind of trying to fit in. And fit in is a wrong word, because it means that it is an implication for you to be s- like something else or somebody else. We are all different. We're born different. Our genetic makeup is different. How do you expect everybody to behaving the same very manner? And again, that's, that's where the neurotypical world has got it completely wrong. Um, and to be able to think about that all their life they have been called rude, they have been called abrupt, they have been called direct, they have been called, um, somebody who's a disruptor, who breaks the families, who breaks the friendships, who has not achieved much. Where- whereas all their life they had been working towards masking themselves, because all their energies, all their efforts were towards that very bit. And it completely changes your trajectory. It changes your trajectory in the way that, because there is this rejection sensitivity where you are rejected-

    2. AP

      Mm. Yes. Yeah, yeah

    3. KS

      ... by the whole society You're the best person who would understand it. You have written a book about it.

    4. AP

      Yes. Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

    5. KS

      The first book ever written about it, and it is amazing to see the impact of that. You miss opportunities, you let go of opportunities because you think you're not good enough, 'cause everybody around you has made you feel that you're not good enough, whereas you might be the most capable person around. Things that you did not feel that you- you're fit for, you won't even apply. You'd love to do that, this is your passion, but you know that all, everybody else has told you-

    6. AP

      Mm

    7. KS

      ... that you're not gonna succeed, hence you're gonna be an unsu- unsuccessful person. So the fear of failure prevents you from utilizing those opportunities.

    8. AP

      So interesting. So, so interesting, Khurram. I, I bumped into somebody who has a diagnosis of Au- AuDHD at, at an event, and they were describing some of the contradictions to me and, and I wrote down the quote that they said to me, and that was that, "I spent my whole life thinking I was lazy because I couldn't be consistent, and I thought I was broken because I couldn't be spontaneous." And that stayed with me. And I think going back to the, how it can affect your trajectory, on the one hand, you've got being told that you've got great potential at school, uh, in the educational system, which was very much my story. Perhaps job hopping, jumping from job to job because you lose interest or you can't stick at it, or maybe you've got a series of failed relationships and you don't understand why they all broke down.

  9. 13:43 – 16:22

    The most heartbreaking part of living with AuDHD

    1. AP

      But do you think the biggest sadness or the biggest heartbreak is really you sort of live your whole life based on a misunderstanding of who you really are?

    2. KS

      It is. It is. And again, for some people, they've... I really hope not, but there's a pos- possibility they might not be able to find out who they actually are. The eldest person that I've seen is somewhere in their mid-80s, and they were brought there for an AuDHD assessment by the wife because she had read about something and said that, "Yep, he has a heart of gold, but again, completely misunderstood by everybody, and again, at times by myself as well. And again, it, it creates a rift in our relationship. It has created massive rift all our lives." 'Cause that's where the AuDHD is seen as avoidance. AuDHD is seen as inconsistency. Avoidance, uh, AuDHD is seen as, as if you do not care because you're forgetful, you don't do the chores, hence you do not care. You're hyper-focusing on something, you're, hence you're not able to give time to your family. You do not care about the family. Um, you, you kind of losing things that has a financial application. You don't care about what happens to the family as a result of those implications. So they are kind of embroiled in those firefighting all their lives, not able to understand what is going on. And I'm talking about globally. Um, like somewhere in the middle of Pakistan in a rural area, there is this amazing intelligent person who has, who's just capable of m- moving mountains, but is kind of drowned under the labels of being called incompetent and lazy and inconsistent all their lives. And if they don't have access to information, if they don't have access to people who can understand themselves, if they don't have access to, to kind of create their own tribe, access to the professionals who can tell them that they are not what they think they are, they're more than capable, I think their life is going to be drowned in that.

    3. AP

      Mm. Gosh, yeah, no, it's heartbreaking.

    4. KS

      It is.

    5. AP

      I think it sounds like the heart of this whole conversation is, is a crisis of identity-

    6. KS

      Yeah

    7. AP

      ... in the ADHD conversation, in the autism conversation, but particularly in the AuDHD conversation-

    8. KS

      Yeah

    9. AP

      ... because of, I guess, the, the, the unique perspective of masking and the internal contradictions and all of the things that you're blaming yourself for.

    10. KS

      Yeah, yeah.

    11. AP

      I spoke to someone and they said, which again, stayed with me, they said, "I wasn't lonely because nobody loved me. I was lonely because so few people truly knew me."

  10. 16:22 – 19:10

    Why loneliness feels different with AuDHD

    1. AP

      Why do you think so many people with AuDHD feel lonely?

    2. KS

      It's multiple factors. I, I think, um, one is about misunderstanding. It's ming, ming, being min- misunderstood. For example, again, depending on what side is more prevalent, more prominent in that person. For example, if they are somebody who speaks their mind out and they're very factual about things and they're very direct about it, they're seen as rude. They're not seen as honest. Whereas it should be seen as honesty, it should not be seen as rudeness. Um, hence they lose a lot of people like that. Um, they like to be part of social gatherings, they like to be part of social interactions, but they are unable to do so because they, they, all of a sudden, their social battery gets shortened and shortened and shortened. They cannot tolerate more social interactions, hence they prefer to be on their own. Sometimes they like their own company and they enjoy what they're doing, and hence they do not feel the need to meet anybody else, and nobody else tries to do that because they think they're aloof, they're strange, they are, um, uh, they're, they're, they're self-indulgent. So there are so many labels that goes in. So these layers of misunderstanding, of not being misunderstood, the system kind of not creating sys- systems for yourself that can be conducive enough for you to explore your, your tribe or your, your further exploration. And as a result of you sitting in silo wanting to do things, but unable to do things because it will create more understanding.

    3. AP

      Mm.

    4. KS

      And that takes you in a, in a state where you feel lonely. And it's happened to me, like again, still, like when, when the rejection sensitivity dysphoria kicks in, as you feel that as if all your life you have spent, you've not made a friend or nobody cares and nobody understands you. Which is not true. Like now I'm very open about my AuDHD for, for a very long time, and people understand me. People see me from that angle, especially the, I think the most important one, the patients see me through that angle, and they can connect very well with me. And I found my own tribe of few people who are those people who I can be very open about, but still it kicks in and I feel in a very lonely situation.

    5. AP

      I guess to combat the RSD and, and the loneliness, we learn to mask-

    6. KS

      Yeah

    7. AP

      ... and to hide who we are-

    8. KS

      Yeah

    9. AP

      ... in order to put on this version that-

    10. KS

      Yeah

    11. AP

      ... gets more social communication, gets more interaction with others-

    12. KS

      Yeah

    13. AP

      ... in a quest to cure the loneliness.

    14. KS

      Yeah.

    15. AP

      But I suppose that could even lead you into a romantic relationship.

    16. KS

      Yeah.

    17. AP

      Like the mask could be so good.

    18. KS

      Yeah.

    19. AP

      But then I guess over time in a romantic relationship, you can't sustain that-

    20. KS

      Oh, yes

    21. AP

      ... level of camouflage-

    22. KS

      No

    23. AP

      ... because obviously it's exhausting, and over time it slips away.

  11. 19:10 – 22:07

    Why partners often misunderstand AuDHD

    1. AP

      What do you think are some of the biggest confusions or misunderstandings that partners have-

    2. KS

      Mm-hmm

    3. AP

      ... towards their AuDHD partner?

    4. KS

      I think th- this is wh- what I was saying initially, the break- breaking down of relationships. When it happens, it's like as if they do not care. And as, as I said, the mask will sl- slip away once the honeymoon period is over. The a- actual test is when you start living together, that's where the actual test is because you s- you kn- you start to know a side of a person that you've never seen before. And if the person is comfortable with you, the mask will start, will keep on slipping and slipping and slipping till the real person is out. And we're, um, taking on responsibilities because it will be a shared goal to be able to sustain a household. Like, it will be working together to be able to do things. For example, it's your, it's, it's your time to, to, to, to prepare a meal. And all of a sudden, when, when, when the other, when the partner walks in, it feels like a bomb site [laughs]

    5. AP

      Yeah. [laughs]

    6. KS

      Where everything is all over the place. Yeah, you've done a good job of doing that, but again, the mess that the person has left behind, and it is, it is seen as very irresponsible. It's seen as not caring. Uh, it's seen as, "Yeah, I don't do that. How come you do not do that? Get on with your life. I think it's an excuse. You're making an excuse." Um, again, um, these are the things that, like, people have been contacting me on LinkedIn and, and with very similar stories about relationship that they do not understand. "Why are you hiding behind this, this, this mirror, the hazy mirror of autism and ADHD? What is autism and ADHD? It is nothing. You have to get on with your life." And that hel- that happens a lot in ethnic communities where there's lack of psychoeducation, there is lack of sensibility, there's lack of understanding around it. And I was, I was having a conversation earlier on, and, like, in the, in the past few years or so, I've, I've noticed that sometimes a diagnosis of AuDHD or neurodiversity can not, uh, doesn't lead to kind of things joining together. It leads in separation. I've seen people separating, divorcing, because now, now it's all in the open. Both the partners aren't able to kind of live with that reality and they part ways and kind of be happy about it at the same time. So it's not all about sometimes bringing it together. It's, it's about once they know that this is the problem, this is, these are the issues, these are the challenges, I won't say problems, these are the challenges, people decide to just move away from each other because they know the other person won't be able to sustain it or deal with it.

  12. 22:07 – 23:59

    Tiimo advert

    1. AP

      So sorry to interrupt your hyperfocus, but I promise it's worth it. Our sponsor is Tiimo, the best organizational tool for neurodivergent people. Tiimo wasn't named iPhone App of the Year in 2025 by Apple for no reason. It's the ultimate planning partner, gently helping you turn the chaos in your head into a day that actually feels doable, a day you might even look forward to. Tiimo is designed by neurodivergent brains for neurodivergent brains, and you can tell. It supports the stuff ADHD brains can find hardest, managing time, planning what needs doing, prioritizing tasks, staying focused, and actually finishing the thing. And the great news is Tiimo is now back on Android. The app on Android is still being built up to match the iOS experience with even more features in the works. So if you're an Android user and you've been waiting to try it, you can now use Tiimo's core features too, including your daily plan, multiple to-do lists, and AI prioritization to help you figure out what to focus on first. Tiimo offers a visual way to plan your day without relying on willpower, memory, or a million sticky notes, helping you break down your daily agenda into something clear, calm, and actually possible. Give it a go and use the link in my bio for 30% off. Just a note though, the code only works in the web browser, not in the smartphone app. Back to the episode. I was speaking to a man who has AuDHD, and he was explaining to me that he often spent the day at home. His, his wife worked away, and when he heard her pull out the, the door keys and unlock the door and come home from work, it would make him physically jump, and he thought that he was almost quite shocked and panicked at the point where his wife came home, and he felt like he could never really be himself around her, and almost like he was in a sort of, um, a version of fight or flight, I suppose, whenever she was in the house with him.

  13. 23:59 – 25:03

    5 hidden signs you're masking AuDHD

    1. AP

      Are there other, any, are there any signals that somebody might be masking around their partner that they might not be aware of?

    2. KS

      They try really hard. They, they try to be a version that the other partner wants to seen them, but it comes with a depletion of energy. Like everything, masking, it takes a lot of time. The burnouts that we see, it's not because- They burn out because of the work that they're doing. They burn out because they're using extra un- energy to utilize, keep the mask on. And that's where things start to fall apart. Um, and as the energy depletes, they can go into a state of depression, a state of anxiety. Um, they can, they can develop as a comorbidity, as a co-occurrence, or as an outcome of that. Um, they're not as capable as they were before. All of a sudden, people, the partner will see a change in the person. Um, and that's where the starting, the cracks start to appear in-

    3. AP

      Mm

    4. KS

      ... those relationships.

  14. 25:03 – 30:13

    How an AuDHD diagnosis changes relationships

    1. AP

      If someone gets an AuDHD diagnosis in a relationship, that must be quite a turbulent time. Have you seen it impact a relationship in a significantly positive or negative way?

    2. KS

      Like, I've seen both. Like, in, in a positive way where all of a sudden, the inconsistencies, the differences, um, the lack of focus, the kind of disruptive, the interruptions, it has a name. It has a nomenclature. I can... And the, the autism, ADHD, or the AuDHD explains, um, their behaviors on a day-to-day basis. It's not seen as blame. It's not seen as deliberate. It is seen as the neurology, um, how the brain works and how the brain is wired together. But I've seen [laughs] other cases where there's a breakdown of relationship massively, where the other person is not able to deal with it, and where there is a divergence of the vested interests. Like, people... I always tell people that the best way around neurodiversity is to finding a tribe and then finding the right environment and the job for yourself. If they're already unhappy in a job that they like and they want to leave the job, it could be lucrative, it could be bring- bringing a lot of money, but all of a sudden they decide to do something different, which is less paying. So the cracks start to appear because how to sustain the family. Uh, you n- you're, you're not thinking of family first, you're thinking of yourself first. And no, no matter how, how much they like to explain that, "I can excel in that particular area, in that particular field," that does not fall well on the other person. And I've seen people divorcing, people separating, because the partner is not able to deal with the diagnosis anymore. They were happy with the way they were, kind of blaming the person for their behaviors. But now since there is a rationalization, all of a sudden the whole dynamics change, and the person want to explore further, want, wants, wants to make new inroads based on their strengths, based on the b- the belief that they're no more inadequate, that they're very capable of doing things, things that they have put off for a very long time for the sake of family. But the same family, they will, they will move away from the person.

    3. AP

      How do you think that makes the neurodivergent person feel? Because they've, on the one hand, they've just got this-

    4. KS

      Yeah

    5. AP

      ... diagnosis.

    6. KS

      Yes.

    7. AP

      They've finally discovered who they really are, and they're s- making sense-

    8. KS

      Yeah

    9. AP

      ... of, of their, of themselves and their brain.

    10. KS

      Yeah.

    11. AP

      But at the same time, it's also caused their relationship to break down.

    12. KS

      Yeah.

    13. AP

      How does that make that person feel?

    14. KS

      There are two responses to that. One is a triple grief. A triple grief is about the person that they were, and that was masked for a very long time, hence now are not able to appreciate the strengths of that person that was masked. The second pers- the second grief is about letting go of the person that created with the mask, because they had been living with it for a very long time. This is what their life has become. This is how they see themselves, so letting go of that. And third grief is about ending of the relationship or the person they believe to be their, their, their cornerstone or their strength or their support structure. So all of a sudden, so in that very case, they, they, they have to deal with three different grief, um, um, uh, types of grief-

    15. AP

      Mm

    16. KS

      ... at the same time. But then, in other cases, it's a relief as well for them. It's a relief that, "Oh, my God, I'm going to be meeting the person that I was supposed to be all that time, and I have to get rid of the mask. The mask come with a lot of, um, energy being sucked into something which is very redundant, and it's gonna be new beginning for me. It's gonna be new chapter for me." And if somebody is not part of that tribe, if somebody is not willing to support, they rather part ways in order to explore themselves, and they're very happy doing that. So I've seen these two kind of responses-

    17. AP

      Mm

    18. KS

      ... which, which, which are quite varied. But again, both of them are re- relevant. They are very, very much circumstantial, and at the same time, dealing with those situation in a completely different way. That depends on how they were brought up, how their resilience system is, how much strategies and how much of mechanism and scaffolding is there to help support both their decisions.

    19. AP

      One of the best bits of advice I've heard in trying to build your self-awareness after a diagnosis is to ask yourself, like, "What people in my life-

    20. KS

      Yeah

    21. AP

      ... are... What conversations do I walk away from feeling energized, and what conversations do I walk away from feeling drained?"

  15. 30:13 – 34:45

    The moment you realise your whole life was masking

    1. KS

      Yeah.

    2. AP

      And I suppose, is it possible f- to get an AuDHD diagnosis and then actually realize that your relationship is draining you, and that relationship all along was a mask?

    3. KS

      Yeah. Yeah. But that, that, that is so right. Um, and, and again, it is, the diagnosis is a start of a new journey for them. It's, it's not an end of a discussion. It is, the first advice I tell them is to map yourself. This three hours assessment is not gonna help you map yourself. I've given you broad parameters through which you can mask yourself. The first thing is psycho-education. Educate yourself about things using the different resources, using people's exa- example, people who have succeeded doing that. Like again, I give them a few resources, lived experience books, that has really helped the person. The second thing I tell them is to kind of move away from situations, move away from things that is, that is making things difficult for you, be it people, be it jobs, be it situation, be it environments. So finding your tribe is the most important thing that you should be looking for. If you see like-minded people, all of a sudden your, y- social situation that used to drain you will now energize you. It will do the opposite for you. You will have this longing to meet that person, to be able to develop something. You, you find connections with people who are brilliant, and two brilliant minds and three brilliant minds can come together-

    4. AP

      Mm

    5. KS

      ... and create something. I recently have, have been using the analogy of, uh, the band Queen.

    6. AP

      Mm.

    7. KS

      Um, so-

    8. AP

      Freddie Mercury.

    9. KS

      Yeah, Freddie Mercury.

    10. AP

      Yes. Yeah. [laughs]

    11. KS

      Big fan. Like-

    12. AP

      Yes, likewise

    13. KS

      ... it's, it's four different people-

    14. AP

      Mm-hmm

    15. KS

      ... from four different parts of the world.

    16. AP

      Yeah.

    17. KS

      Like Freddie Mercury, born in Zanzibar, a different sexual orientation, kind of goes against his, his, his community to be able to who, uh, to find out who himself was. The guitarist, Brian May, astrophysicist. He created his first guitar from a fireplace.

    18. AP

      Hmm. Wow, yeah.

    19. KS

      Um, then there was another one, I think John Deacon was one. Um, and then the fourth one, I'm not... One was a dentist, was meant to be a dentist, and then he did a degree in biology. He was from UK, and then he traveled. Four different people coming from different part of the world, creating an amazing band like Queen. Again, and the analogy of how the song We Will Rock You, we will, we will rock you, it was born when, when Brian May saw the silence, and the crowd filled that silence with their songs. So they were performing with them, and he took it as an opportunity to give a song to the audience that will live forever, that will outlive their own legacy, and by stomp, stomp, clap.

    20. AP

      Hmm. Yes. Yeah.

    21. KS

      This, this was, this was how it started. So i- if they had not met together... So that was Brian May's idea. It was written by Freddie Mercury and John Deacon, and that became a slogan. You go to football matches, you go to, to, to, to street dances, you go to anywhere where there's a defiance movement going on, you will hear this song, We Will Rock You. And four different brains. So if they had not find themselves, the, this song would not have been created. This band would not have been created. So I tell people, "Find your tribe." You will connect with each other. You will have different sensibilities, you'll have different skill set, but together you'll create something very amazing.

    22. AP

      So absolutely incredible. I remember the first time I saw their Band Aid performance-

    23. KS

      Yeah

    24. AP

      ... on, on that stage in front of 40,000, 50,000, 60,000 people, and the way he just held the entire crowd with-

    25. KS

      Yes

    26. AP

      ... Brian and the rest in the background.

    27. KS

      Yes. Yeah.

    28. AP

      And I mean, it was a historic moment. And, you know, all of that happened because of their individual brains coming together.

    29. KS

      Yeah.

    30. AP

      Absolutely fascinating.

  16. 34:45 – 36:45

    What AuDHD burnout really feels like

    1. AP

      What does AuDHD burnout actually feel like?

    2. KS

      So AuD- AuDHD burnout is unlike anything you have seen before. It's not tiredness. It's like your whole system, it switches off.

    3. AP

      Hmm.

    4. KS

      You want to do it, but you do not, don't have the physical energy to do it. You don't have the will to do that. And then if you want, you try doing it, all of a sudden your RSD, your, your, your, your failures will come in the way, and they will bring you down in a way that you have not seen before. And the way around is, to come out of it is, is, A, to lay low for a while.

    5. AP

      Hmm.

    6. KS

      Bring back the energy that you had, and then start finding the things that you find interesting, you're passionate about. Jobs are the worst things. Like, they are the biggest suckers of energy you could ever think of. Like, being in the wrong environment, doing the wrong thing with the wrong crowd, like, it's, it's triple impacting you and s- and, and utilizing three times threefold more energy than you have, and probably which you do not have. And the burnout is about complete... One day the brain says, "No, it's not gonna happen." And I, I think the brain revolts. It rebels. That, "No, you're not gonna do that. I will fail to support you in this," and hence it goes down. And with this, the whole system goes down.

    7. AP

      I guess the reality is that many people with AuDHD don't know that they have AuDHD, and they are working in that office. They are in that relationship that is draining them, and they haven't got the luxury of awareness, and they're not able to lean on that awareness and ask themselves these important questions. And they're just going through life, going to that 9:00 to 5:00 job, and they're miserable, and they don't understand

  17. 36:45 – 39:08

    The true cost of never unmasking AuDHD

    1. AP

      why. What's the ultimate- ... outcome of that person who never gets that realization, is just masking to the max

    2. KS

      A loss to the system. They fall through the crevices. We will never know them. Just like Adam's story, the one that I narrated last time, Adam is a best example of that. Amazing brain, musical prodigy, could have gone places, only if the world had understood him. Only if the professionals had the courtesy to understand him, to able to help him, his trajectory would have been completely different to the way he passed away. A kind of mask and homelessness and addiction, and people could not see beyond that. They could not see the brilliant mind, and this is exactly what happened. And this is what I'm scared of, for such amazing brains, such amazing capable people, just falling through the crevices and not recovering ever again, and we will never know them, unfortunately.

    3. AP

      Or if you had a child and you could only tell them one thing about AuDHD, what would that be?

    4. KS

      AuD- that AuDHD is not a mixture, or it's, it's not a combination of autism and ADHD, 'cause this is what people feel, that you've got autism and ADHD, and you will kind of depict the characteristics of both in silos. It's an intertwining. It's a completely neuro- different neurobiology, which comes with a different presentation. It comes with, with a push and a pull that you do not experience in, in either autism or ADHD. In a way, it can be balancing act if you get it right, but if you get it wrong, it can be devastating for you. So what you have to understand, it's a different neurotype to autism and ADHD combined together. It's an intertwining. They're connected by a thread on a spectrum, two extreme ends, and you have to balance it out yourself once you know what it is

    5. AP

      Mm. On the one hand, you've got ADHD and autism, which in itself are, are two disabilities.

    6. KS

      Yes.

    7. AP

      But on the other hand, you've got potential for, for, for greatness, and there's obviously the extreme lens of it being like-

    8. KS

      Yes

    9. AP

      ... the superpowers.

    10. KS

      Yes.

  18. 39:08 – 40:56

    Stop fighting your AuDHD brain

    1. AP

      What advice would you give to someone that would enable them to work with their AuDHD rather than against it?

    2. KS

      Combining both these narratives are very important. You can be brilliant, but you can be suffering at the same time. You can do wonders, but again- again time, you have got a massive ASD. You can be the best clinician, but you're crap at doing admin.

    3. AP

      Yes. [laughs]

    4. KS

      So those are the things, those are the reality we have to combine together because it, it's, it's, it's... On one hand, it's, it's the suffering. It's, it's a, it's a disability. It's a condition. It's a disorder. Whatever nomenclature you want to give it to. I allow people to use their own nomenclature depending on what they're going through. On the other hand, this, this cozy thing about it being a superpower, it becomes something of a strength. But what we do not do is to combine it together. You can be both. So your strength should be able to, to kind of change things, but at the same time, you should be very much aware of your limitations and how to create systems to minimize those limitations. That's the key.

    5. AP

      Amazing, Khurram. Very, very good advice. I wanna move on to the most emotionally unpredictable-

    6. KS

      Yeah

    7. AP

      ... part of the show, and that's the audience questions.

    8. KS

      Yes.

    9. AP

      And I've got three incredible questions in the washing machine of woes-

    10. KS

      Yes

    11. AP

      ... which I'm sure you'll be very familiar with-

    12. KS

      Yes. [laughs]

    13. AP

      ... having this is your third time on the podcast.

    14. KS

      Third time, yes.

    15. AP

      And it's called the washing machine of woes because they are woes-

    16. KS

      Yes

    17. AP

      ... from the audience in a washing machine, because washing machine is my memory jog to empty the machine after the cycle finishes. So a little public service announcement to anyone listening who might have damp clothes in the machine, thank me later. Although I have been using the Tiimo app recently, which has enabled [laughs] me to get a little bit better at remembering, but still a work in progress. This week, Dr. Khurram, someone has written in and asked,

  19. 40:56 – 45:07

    Why so many people with AuDHD believe they're broken

    1. AP

      "How many people with AuDHD do you think grow up believing they're broken when in reality they've just never understood themselves?"

    2. KS

      Almost everyone. Almost everyone thinks the same, till they find themselves. Till they find themselves, till they find their strengths. And the important thing to notice is that we, we say that this world is not constructed for neurodiversity, period. And this is the case. The social disability model tells you that the problem do not lies with the disability or the condition. It lies with you not p- providing eq- eq- equitable resources to be able to reach that level where they can demonstrate their strengths. But AuDHD, I think it is a, it's a force that, especially with all the awareness that is going on about AuDHD, thanks to everybody's work that we are doing together collectively, and for this platform for bringing it all together. Once they find it, I think it is... The whole narrative changes. They don't see it as broken. They see it as different. They don't see themselves as incapable. They see them as people with different energy, bringing different things to the table. But we have to help them reach that stage because not everybody's reached that stage. As we said, that people, they, they just fall through the crevices. They fall through the cracks because they are not understood. They're not able to get the help. And we are talking, talking about a global population. We're not talking about somebody's in UK and the US or in developed countries or slightly developing countries. We, we're talking about the global narrative. So at the whole goal should be to able to make people understand- About neurodiversity and how people can be so different. How a mosaic is made of different textures and different colors coming together. What can be seen as broken, another perspective, that's one of the most amazing contribution a person can make because they have got attention to the detail, to the minus- to the minutest of the things. So there are strengths behind that broken person. You only have to need to identify that they're not broken. The system tells them that they're broken. Everybody else around has told them that they're broken. But m- rising above the narrative, the whole demeanor change, the whole perspective change, and they become one of the most performing, most amazing individual that you can ever see.

    3. AP

      What advice would you give to someone who is perhaps struggling to find their strengths?

    4. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    5. AP

      Or is it a case of just trial and error-

    6. KS

      Yeah

    7. AP

      ... and hoping the process doesn't break you?

    8. KS

      Yeah. Yes. And, uh, and again, that's, that's unfortunate. Like, I, I, I believe in this Steve Jobs, um, quote about you continue to, to change jobs and find things till you tread your own pathway, and he was so right in doing that and saying that because unless, and unless you're, you're passionate about something. So the way around it is to talk to people. Talk to people who are very similar to you. Conversation, having a conversation, having conversation with multiple people. Considering neurodiversity, there is one, like, out of, uh, every 100 people, there's, there's 20 people who are neurodivergent, so one in five would be neurodivergent people. They would be able to listen to you. They would be able to guide you in those moments where you feel that you are broken, you're incapable, and you are not doing anything right. So conversation and understanding and try to find out what is going on with the person. Mapping one's own limitations is what's, what, what, what leads this adversity to something very amazing.

    9. AP

      Fascinating. Thank you so much. I wanna move on to the second question. This one's very poignant considering what I know about the ADHD Chatter audience.

  20. 45:07 – 45:42

    If you were diagnosed late, you need to hear this

    1. AP

      If you could say one thing to every 40-year-old who's just discovered they're AuDHD-

    2. KS

      Mm-hmm

    3. AP

      ... what would that be?

    4. KS

      I would say well done for surviving this long. Very well done for, for sustaining it, for reaching this stage, for, for, for, for getting that information to be able to understand yourself. This is the first step of your new journey, and this is where you start to map yourself out to be able to find your strengths, and you will find them.

    5. AP

      Amazing.

  21. 45:42 – 47:10

    The hardest part of living with AuDHD

    1. AP

      Thank you, Khurram. And just finally, what's the most brutal contradiction of having both autism and ADHD at the same time?

    2. KS

      I think it's, uh, we, we spoke about it earlier, and it, it, it is to do with wanting to be connected, but avoiding to be connected and blaming yourself for both. That, that you're, you're, you're, you're perfectly fine in your company, but at the same time you're longing for some kind of stimulation, some kind of intimacy. But when intimacy comes, you avoid it. So... And even if you go out and do that, it will result in depleting your energy, and you'll come back home, and you have to stay in bed for two days to recover from that.

    3. AP

      Yes. [laughs]

    4. KS

      I think that's the worst kind of contradiction that we have seen. But it changes when you find people who are part of your tribe, and all those conversation become very energizing. You long for each other's company, and together you create something which is amazing. So don't stop searching for that tribe.

    5. AP

      Amazing. Thank you so much, Dr. Khurram.

    6. KS

      All right. Thank you.

    7. AP

      Just finally, I want to deliver to you a letter, and the letter was written by the previous guest, and they wrote themselves, they wrote a letter to their younger self. And what I do is I take each guest's letter, and I hand it to the guest in front of me today-

    8. KS

      Yeah

    9. AP

      ... which is obviously you. So there we go. If you could kindly read the previous guest's letter to their younger self.

    10. KS

      So

  22. 47:10 – 47:50

    A letter to my younger self

    1. KS

      it says, "Dear little one, I know you have felt that you're not enough, that people will judge you, and that you can't be your true self. The truth is, your authentic self is the most precious thing about you. If in doubt or fear of rejection, pause, breathe, count, walk away. It will all be okay. You're enough." That's beautiful.

    2. AP

      Wow. Yeah, a lovely tone as well to end the episode on. On behalf of everyone listening, Dr. Khurram, grappling to understand their AuDHD brains, thank you very, very much.

    3. KS

      And thank you for inviting me again. [upbeat music]

Episode duration: 47:51

Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript

Transcript of episode gf0AVhA3phc

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

iOSAndroidClaudeChrome