ADHD Chatter Podcast5 Signs You’re A High-Masking Autistic With ADHD | Dr Carly Jones
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 4:13
AuDHD as a moving target: why traits shift across life and hormones
Dr Carly Jones and Alex open by questioning whether ADHD and autism are distinct categories or overlapping spectrums that change across the lifespan. Carly explains how context, age, and especially perimenopause can amplify traits and change coping capacity. The tone is set: AuDHD isn’t static, and self-understanding evolves over time.
- •ADHD/autism as spectrums with shifting support needs across life
- •Perimenopause as a major inflection point for ADHD traits
- •Why it can be hard to cleanly answer “am I also autistic?”
- •Traits can be friends or enemies depending on life stage and demands
- 4:13 – 9:09
Hidden autistic traits: “social imagination” and living without a gut-instinct roadmap
Carly describes a subtle but profound autistic difficulty: predicting social consequences (“social imagination”). She explains how this can look invisible to others while being all-consuming internally, leading to vulnerability and repeated painful learning. The “Consequence game” becomes a metaphor for why social interaction can feel like improvising without the script.
- •Social imagination as difficulty forecasting social outcomes and risk
- •Learning via repeated experiences rather than intuition
- •Why it’s ‘hidden in plain sight’ to observers
- •The ‘Consequence game’ analogy for unpredictable social interaction
- 9:09 – 12:55
What high-masking can look like day-to-day: stims, eye contact, clothes, and literal thinking
The conversation turns to masking in practical terms—how people suppress stims, force eye contact, manage conversation, and adjust appearance to fit social expectations. Carly shares personal examples (hand-flapping suppression, nose-looking strategy, black-tie literalism). Alex adds how “uniform dressing” can be an unmasking strategy that reduces cognitive load.
- •Masking stims (sitting on hands, rocking) and its subconscious nature
- •Eye-contact strategies (e.g., looking at noses) and face blindness
- •Masking via clothes/makeup/dress codes; literal interpretation pitfalls
- •Reducing decision friction (wearing same outfit) as self-accommodation
- 12:55 – 17:37
The cost of masking: self-esteem erosion, identity loss, depression risk
Carly frames masking as more than tiring—it can slowly strip away self-esteem and sense of self. Alex connects the dots: without self-knowledge, it’s harder to choose safe relationships, fitting jobs, and supportive environments. They highlight how years of compensating can create a chronic feeling of being “broken.”
- •Masking is mentally and physically exhausting
- •Each act of masking can chip away at self-esteem
- •Identity confusion impacts work/relationship choices
- •Long-term risk: low mood and depression from self-erasure
- 17:37 – 23:44
People-pleasing as a safeguarding issue: saying yes, losing autonomy, and boundary blindness
Carly explains how masking often pairs with autopilot people-pleasing—agreeing to avoid conflict, rejection, or social loss. That “yes reflex” can deepen commitments before someone realizes the cost, creating a safeguarding risk. The chapter emphasizes boundaries and consent as essential life skills that should be taught early.
- •People-pleasing can become automatic survival behavior
- •Saying yes feels socially rewarding; saying no feels dangerous
- •Escalation: getting “too far in to back out” of situations
- •Need for early education on boundaries and consent
- 23:44 – 32:29
Love bombing vulnerability: missing flirt cues, red flags as “red roses,” and relying on a trusted circle
Alex asks directly about love bombing, and Carly explains why AuDHD/autistic women can be especially susceptible: difficulty reading flirtation, craving clear communication, and dopamine-driven attachment. She describes a ‘timeline of vulnerability’ shaped by lifelong invalidation (“you’re overreacting”). Protective strategy: consult trusted friends who can be rational when you can’t.
- •Difficulty reading flirting/body language increases risk
- •Love bombing can register as the only ‘clear’ sign of interest
- •Early invalidation can condition self-doubt and under-reporting abuse
- •Safeguarding via a trusted ‘tribe’ to reality-check relationships
- 32:29 – 37:29
Friendship exploitation and loneliness: ‘friendship at any cost,’ social drift, and extreme cases like cuckooing
Carly details how friendship dynamics often change around ages 9–10, widening gaps between neurodivergent and neurotypical peers. Loneliness and social expectations can keep people in unhealthy friendships or relationships. She shares a severe example—cuckooing—illustrating how manipulation can escalate when boundaries and support systems collapse.
- •Social drift in late primary years can destabilize friendships
- •Loneliness can normalize unhealthy dynamics (‘better than being alone’)
- •Romantic/sexual pressure can emerge from misread friendship signals
- •Cuckooing: coercive takeover of someone’s home/life via ‘love’ and control
- 37:29 – 40:16
After the crisis: self-blame, trauma bonding, and building an exit plan with support
When reflecting on abusive dynamics, Carly notes many people cling to the “good early phase” (trauma bonding) and struggle to leave once isolated. She stresses that friends must offer practical support—not just warnings—to help someone exit safely. The focus shifts from ‘why did I do this?’ to ‘what’s the plan to get out?’
- •Trauma bonding and hope for ‘things will get better’ delays leaving
- •Isolation makes escape harder (loss of friends/support)
- •Helpful support includes concrete options (a plan, a place to stay)
- •Reducing self-blame while rebuilding safety and autonomy
- 40:16 – 44:40
Diagnosis and self-forgiveness: unmasking as peeling back wallpaper layers
Carly describes post-diagnosis reframing as the most vital step—recognizing past struggles weren’t moral failings. She uses an extended metaphor: removing layers of wallpaper to reveal a beautiful house underneath. They discuss grief with late diagnosis, and Carly reframes masking as potentially informative—a ‘signal’ that you don’t feel safe.
- •Self-forgiveness and new ‘lenses’ after diagnosis/self-identification
- •Unmasking metaphor: stripping layers to find the ‘real’ structure
- •Later diagnosis can increase grief and the work of rebuilding identity
- •Masking can become a safety signal: if you’re masking hard, consider leaving
- 44:40 – 48:07
RSD in AuDHD: risk avoidance, overcompensation, and self-sabotage patterns
Alex introduces RSD as a major driver of masking and avoidance. Carly shares common community descriptions (not applying, staying stagnant) and her own pattern: applying widely while unconsciously sabotaging to avoid facing rejection. She emphasizes the role of trusted peers to review applications and counter negative self-talk.
- •RSD can stop people from applying for jobs/promotions
- •Compensation strategy: apply to many things—but still fear outcomes
- •Self-sabotage as an unconscious protection from rejection
- •Using trusted colleagues to reality-check self-presentation
- 48:07 – 51:01
The AuDHD ‘push and pull’: routine vs spontaneity and why toxic dynamics can feel familiar
Carly explains the internal tug-of-war: the autistic need for routine versus the ADHD/hyperactive drive for novelty. Alex links it to relationship dynamics—push/pull patterns can feel ‘normal’ if your brain is already in push/pull daily. They discuss how this can lead to crisis presentations that are misread as depression alone, resulting in mistargeted treatment.
- •Daily conflict: routine needs vs hyperactive novelty needs
- •Push/pull relationship patterns can be especially hooking
- •Crisis can lead to antidepressants without addressing root neurotype needs
- •Need for support that recognizes the combined profile
- 51:01 – 1:01:43
Why women were missed: male-centric tools, gender roles, and different presentations
Alex asks why the predominantly female audience feels missed by the system. Carly points to male-centric psychology, diagnostic tools normed on boys, and gendered expectations that hide symptoms (e.g., ‘studious’ girl reading vs boy being redirected). She also highlights broader medical bias and the social pressure on women to be peacemakers and fixers.
- •Diagnostic criteria/tools historically skewed toward boys/men
- •Gendered expectations can disguise traits as ‘good behavior’
- •Broader medical bias affects women’s complaints being taken seriously
- •Social roles encourage masking, compliance, and ‘fixing’ behaviors
- 1:01:43 – 1:05:59
Living more harmoniously: pacing, delaying commitments, and protecting future-you
Carly offers practical strategies: alternate high-demand days with autism-friendly recovery days, and never commit instantly. She recommends a built-in delay (“I’ll check my diary and reply in two days”) to reduce people-pleasing and allow realistic forecasting. Alex adds a memorable rule: it’s easier to turn a no into a yes than a yes into a no.
- •Pacing: balance ‘hyperactive days’ with recovery/low-demand days
- •Avoid signing up for long commitments in a temporary mood state
- •Use a default delay before answering invitations/requests
- •Pros/cons lists and ‘no-to-yes is easier than yes-to-no’ rule
- 1:05:59 – 1:16:23
Audience Q&A: managing RSD, making AuDHD an ally, and coping while waiting for assessment
They shift into audience questions using the show’s ‘washing machine of woes’ setup, touching on memory/ADHD tax along the way. Carly suggests reframing rejection (10% rule, ‘rejection is redirection’) and treating traits as allies—put them to work. For those awaiting assessment, she emphasizes requesting accommodations now and not feeling pressured to ‘prove’ diagnosis, noting legal protections are needs-led.
- •ADHD/AuDHD tax examples: forgotten food, bills, contracts, chores
- •RSD coping: plan for rejection, 10% rule, ‘rejection as redirection’
- •Mindset shift: make traits an employee/ally that ‘pays rent’
- •While waiting: request reasonable adjustments without needing a diagnosis
- 1:16:23 – 1:18:14
Closing ritual: letter to younger self and final reflections on growth and duality
The episode ends with the show’s tradition of reading a letter to a younger self—highlighting growth through challenge. Alex and Carly close with gratitude and a reminder to hold neurodivergent duality with more nuance and less black-and-white judgment. The final moments reinforce validation and self-compassion as ongoing practices.
- •Letter theme: challenges leading to growth and trusting the process
- •Celebrating the show’s reach and community impact
- •Reinforcing self-compassion and ongoing learning
- •Reminder to embrace duality rather than rigid self-judgment
