By playing, you agree to uListen's Terms and Privacy Policy and YouTube's Terms of Service.

Denise Welch details impact of late ADHD diagnosis

Denise Welch is an English actress, television personality, writer and broadcaster. Today, she opens up about her late ADHD diagnosis, and shares the many lessons she's learnt along the way.

Denise WelchguestAlex Partridgehost

Nov 19, 20242h 29mWatch on YouTube

Summaries, chapters, transcripts, and FAQs on this page are made by uListen, not YouTube.

Great conversations run long. Their best ideas don't have to.

uListen is free on iPhone, iPad, Android, Chrome, and Claude.

See how

Transcript

135 min read · 26,710 words

0:00 – 0:58
Trailer
1. DWDenise Welch
  I would make myself vomit because the 10 seconds of making myself sick would take away from the pain in my head. [crying]
2. APAlex Partridge
  National treasure, Denise Welch. Denise is an English actress, television personality, writer, and broadcaster. Now she is opening up about her ADHD.
3. DWDenise Welch
  I was diagnosed, and they offered me the medication. So I took the tablet, and then an hour later, I wanted a drink and a cigarette for the first time in 11 years. I made some huge mistakes in my life because of alcohol and drugs. What I do wonder is, did ADHD play a part in my postnatal depression and in my drink and drug abuse? What I've always thought was, it was me self-medicating, but now they are finding links in postnatal depression and ADHD. What people don't understand about mental health issues and mental illness and depression is that when people take the ultimate way out, which is sadly, um, taking their own life, it's not that they want to die, it's that they want to stop the pain.
0:58 – 1:07
Dedication
1. APAlex Partridge
  This episode is dedicated to anyone who cleans, not because their home is a mess, but because their mind is a mess.
1:07 – 3:34
A message from our sponsor: Tiimo
1. APAlex Partridge
  This sponsored ad was agreed to be 90 seconds long, but because I know most of you have ADHD, I negotiated it down to 89 seconds. I challenge you to test your ADHD by seeing if you can sit still for one minute 30 seconds while I tell you about our sponsor, Tiimo app. If I can sit down and record take after take of this message for two hours, then I'm sure you can listen to 90 seconds. So here's a short word from our sponsor. Tiimo app is a perfectly tailored app that I use daily, and maybe it's worth you giving it a try to see how it might improve organizing your life, too. Running a podcast is actually a lot harder than you might think, and juggling all of the moving parts would be near impossible if it weren't for Tiimo app. How? Well, Tiimo is designed specifically to hack the neurodivergent brain, a brain that might struggle with time agnosia, object permanence, memory cognitive load, task initiation, anxiety, or procrastination. All things I'm extremely guilty of, too. And how on earth does it help you, Alex? I hear you scream impatiently at your computer or phone screens. Well, the award-winning Tiimo app is the perfect life-hacking tool to help your time management and kick you up the bum when you need it most. If you want to stay ahead of the competition, then the visual planning Tiimo app is specifically designed to help your structuring, organizing, focusing, and goal setting. It has a visual timer, providing a tangible and visual representation of time to help users pace themselves so you never miss a deadline ever again. It also has an efficient lock screen reminder service to alert those of you who are very out of sight, out of mind with your chores and afraid you might forget them. It brilliantly centers all of your tasks in one place across devices, both on a web and mobile apps, to streamline your overflowing schedules and make them much more digestible and a lot less intimidating. And for those who find big tasks too overwhelming to even start, Tiimo breaks them down into more manageable subtasks to get the ball rolling. In fact, this app helps me so much that it actually reminded me to record this message to advertise the app. Give it a go. Why not? It might just help. Anyway, back to the episode. Denise, thank you so much for joining us.
2. DWDenise Welch
  Alex, you're welcome. Thank you.
3:34 – 3:59
Denise’s ADHD item reveal
1. APAlex Partridge
  As always, before we get into the meat of the interview, Denise, I wanna reveal your ADHD item-
2. DWDenise Welch
  Okay
3. APAlex Partridge
  ... um, which is underneath this cloth on the table.
4. DWDenise Welch
  Yeah.
5. APAlex Partridge
  Now, for people who-
6. DWDenise Welch
  [laughs]
7. APAlex Partridge
  It's a DVD of Real Housewives. Um, and we're gonna talk about why that's your ADHD item a little later on.
8. DWDenise Welch
  Okay, cool.
9. APAlex Partridge
  Um, but first, Denise, we've got a tradition where we ask every guest the same question, so I'll ask you that question now.
3:59 – 6:17
Early memories of feeling different
1. DWDenise Welch
  Right.
2. APAlex Partridge
  What was your earliest memory of feeling different?
3. DWDenise Welch
  Um, yeah, that, it... Quite, quite interesting because I think that with, with my ADHD, and, and, and I, and maybe other particularly women have said this, um, the hyperness was not really a thing in my childhood. So I don't... W- when we talk about ADHD, and we think of the naughty boys, particularly boys jumping on tables and being told off and, and, and everything, I never felt the female equivalent of that. I remember wondering why my boredom threshold was so low, which I realize now is probably just attention, you know, uh, deficit obvious- obviously. And I was always, um, I was always aw- aware of that, that I didn't find necessarily the same things interesting as other people. But I can never, I can never honestly say that I felt as bad as to feel that I was completely and utterly different in my, in my thought processes. 'Cause I know that there's obviously an AD, ADH, ADHD scale-
4. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
5. DWDenise Welch
  ... and a spectrum for, for that. And so I think that, um, I n- I never felt completely different. Maybe I masked, as they call it now. You know, I was always tr- I was always somebody that tried to fit in. Um, I always somebody that wanted to people-please and wanted to fit, and that's really something that I struggle with to this day.
6. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
7. DWDenise Welch
  I mean, I'm, you know, I, I'm glad that I feel that I'm quite a nice person. Um, but it, it's, it's troubled me over the years of why my desire is so great to not upset even the bin man. You know when my husband will say-
8. APAlex Partridge
  Yeah
9. DWDenise Welch
  ... "Why are you upset?" And I say, "Well, because the bin man shouted at me." And he says, "But why do you really give a fuck that the bin man said that you put the bin in the wrong place?" And, because I just don't want the bin man to think that I'm not a very nice person.
10. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
11. DWDenise Welch
  So I've always felt different in that respect. My sensitivity gene is so huge. So, um, different in some ways, but not different that I ever thought it was a problem
12. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
6:17 – 10:55
When was your ADHD diagnosis
1. APAlex Partridge
  And when did you get your ADHD diagnosis?
2. DWDenise Welch
  Well, I, I got it by default sort of a couple of years ago. Nadia Sawalha-
3. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
4. DWDenise Welch
  ... had been for some time sure that she and her daughters were ADHD, but undiagnosed, and she talked about it a lot, and everybody would go, "Oh, God, Nadia, you know, if anyone's ADHD, it's you," y- the girls would say. So our producer is married to someone who's very, very high up in the ADHD world, um, Henry Shelford, and he very, very, you know, um, an authority on, on, on, on this subject. Anyway, they asked Nadia if they organized a, a, um, a diagnostic process for her, would she be happy for it to be filmed as an item on the show, and she said, "Yeah, for sure." So they, um, got ADHD 360-
5. APAlex Partridge
  Mm, I know
6. DWDenise Welch
  ... to, um, she went along, and she did the, you know, the w- the thing that you do-
7. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
8. DWDenise Welch
  ... um, over a period of, of, of a couple of days. And, uh, when... And she was indeed, as were her d- as were her d- her daughters di- diagnosed with it. However, they then told me that, um, when they had approached ADHD 360 and said, "One of our Loose Ladies thinks she may be ADHD," remember there's 24 of us altogether. They went, "Is it Denise Welch?"
9. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
10. DWDenise Welch
  And I went, "Oh, okay. What, out of all of us?"
11. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
12. DWDenise Welch
  And they said, "Yes, that's what they said." And, um, the girls then proceeded to say, "Oh, come on, Den. Come on, Den." And I hadn't really... I'll tell you why, Alex. Because depression has always been my illness, which, uh, this is me di- digressing a bit, but I've, I've had clinical depression, um, since Matthew was born in 1989, so 35 years. Um, less so the last five years, which w- we may or may not go onto, and it's like a new life has happened to me in my 60s because, because of that. Um, but that has always been my illness. So everything slightly different about me, everything to do with my thought processes, the way that I, um, the way, the, the way that my life runs is always to do with clinical depression.
13. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
14. DWDenise Welch
  Endogenous clinical depression, as opposed to reactive clinical depression, which is, of course, what it says on the tin. It's, that's based on trauma or life events that cause you to go into a depression, whereas mine is more scary 'cause it's endogenous. So it just happens in the middle of a conversation or when I'm on a train or when I'm in an incredibly wonderful moment in my life, and I suddenly feel a metallic taste in my mouth and a tingling in my palms, and I know that that heralds an, a horrible episode of, of depression, of which there is no control. Um, so I never thought of having another thing, so that was always my thing. And, um, anyway, I met the people when they came along to the, when we, when we did the episode where we covered Nadia's diagnosis, and I met the people from ADHD 360. And of course I was going to be having a, a diagnosis, and of course it was kind of off the, you know, off the cha- off the chart-
15. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
16. DWDenise Welch
  ... as it, as it were.
17. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
18. DWDenise Welch
  What I was fascinated about was, the, the thing that we discussed, uh, previously, is like many, many people, thinking that because, uh, because I wasn't hyperactive in childhood it had never been something that it-
19. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
20. DWDenise Welch
  So I never felt I was, I never felt I was, um, masking anything. I have a friend, um, who has, uh, twin daughters, and one of the daughters lives a, you know, a very pain-free life, and the other daughter has, is on the spectrum ADHD, and it's awful because her masking is so intensely amazing that at school they have no idea of her home behavior. She is on the top of the academic list. She is a friendly, um, amazing mixer at school and comes back and shows violent tendencies from the minute she walks in the door and is having a terrible time, and so are they. She's got the most wonderful parents to deal with this. So I am now aware of what they call masking, but that was never, I never felt I was masking any, any, anything. So it's an, it's an interesting, um, new adventure that I'm on, and I also don't medicate, which I tried.
10:55 – 16:03
Denise’s ADHD medication experience
1. DWDenise Welch
  So two years ago I was diagnosed, and they offered me the medication and suggested that I took it. And I said to Lincoln, my husband, "I don't feel the need to take medication for ADHD. I don't really want to change who I am. I accept that I interrupt people, and sometimes that's just 'cause they're so boring." [laughs]
2. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
3. DWDenise Welch
  "Not because I've got ADHD." [laughs] But yes, you know, there are all these little sort of lighthearted things. And, and Lincoln said to me... Sorry I keep knocking this. Lincoln said to me, "If someone else was diagnosed with something, and they were told or advised to take the medication, you would tell them they should," because I'm a huge advocate for antidepressant medication when prescribed for the right reasons by the right people. Um, and so I said, "Okay." And, and I remember it was January 2023, and my son Matty was playing at the O2. It was a big, big night, and, um, I was taking several people along and blah, blah, blah. Anyway, so this medication arrives, and, um, I honestly thought because- The way that it had been described to me in, in some ways was that my head would be clearer. I would be much more focused. I wouldn't be trying to, you know, multitask a million things. I'm a woman, and we do multitask, but, you know, that my head wouldn't be scrambled in so many ways, and that suddenly domesticity and the ability to do my taxes would happen to me overnight. So I thought, "I'm gonna take this tablet. By the time I leave our London apartment, I'm going to have vacuumed everywhere, and I'm going to have thought, 'Right, for once I really want to settle down to that bulk of tax affairs [laughs] that I've ignored since I was 18 years old.'" So I took the tablet, and, um, an hour later nothing had happened, and I was joking about still not feeling the need to do my taxes. And then an hour later, I wanted a drink and a cigarette for the first time in 11 years. And it was horrendous how it affected me. Um, had I not been so many years into and so secure and capable of managing my sobriety, it would've been a very, very, very dangerous tipping point for me. Very dangerous. And so one of the things that I am always glad of the opportunity to tell people is that ADHD medication changes so many people's lives for the better, but there are some people who it is not good for, and I was absolutely one of them. Um, it was really, you know, quite frightening.
4. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
5. DWDenise Welch
  And I made a decision that literally the day after to n- to not take it. My sobriety is just too important, um, to me to ever risk that. Of course, I then start googling, as we, as we are told not to, but we do about everything, and realize that that's incredibly common and has, and, and has caused lapses in many, many people who aren't strong enough in their sobriety by then. So it's something that I think should be pointed out more before you are prescribed it, um, and people can make a more informed, um, decision. But having said that, I talk to so many people whose lives are a million times better be- be- because of it.
6. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
7. DWDenise Welch
  So it's, it's horses for courses.
8. APAlex Partridge
  Yeah. For someone who the risk is so high if you have a drink, and you don't know how that day's and night's gonna end, and, you know, it can be fatal.
9. DWDenise Welch
  I realized when I was at Matty's show, and we were in a box at, at, at, at, at the show, um, I like a non-alcoholic beer. I'm not triggered by non-alcoholic beer. I get sick of sparkling water. I like a non.
10. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
11. DWDenise Welch
  And now over the years, they're so much better, aren't they, the non-alcoholic drinks? Um, I realized that whereas normally if I'd gone to an event like that, I probably would've had maybe a couple of non-alcoholic beers and then gone on to coffee or water.
12. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
13. DWDenise Welch
  I realized I'd had eight, and that's what I was obviously doing. Whereas I never use non-alcoholic beer for the, the beery taste or whatever.
14. APAlex Partridge
  Yes.
15. DWDenise Welch
  It's just 'cause it's a nice alternative.
16. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
17. DWDenise Welch
  You know, and especially on holiday in the sunshine, it's nice to have a, a cold beer of sorts. But it was terrifying. And another thing that Lincoln said to me, uh, you know, especially 'cause he'd been the one who had encouraged me to try it, um, he said the next day, "I never want you to take that again." And I said, "I've made the decision." And I said, "Why do you say that?" And he said, "Because your energy was like when you used to drink." And we both gave up together alcohol. We both had issues with alcohol. So it wasn't him pointing a finger. He just felt the old energy in me coming back, that spoiling for a fight energy that would happen with alcohol.
18. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
19. DWDenise Welch
  And him and I don't do that, you know? So that was interesting. His observation of me was, "This is s- this is scary."
20. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
21. DWDenise Welch
  Um, 'cause I didn't say anything. When I felt this happening, I thought, "I'm not gonna say to Lincoln, 'Fuck, I've taken this tablet, and it's making me want to drink.'" Everybody was going out for this fabulous night, so I was concealing how I was feeling.
16:03 – 18:40
How did your perspective on ADHD change post diagnosis?
1. APAlex Partridge
  Do you think your pers- pers- perspective of ADHD has changed post-diagnosis to pre-diagnosis?
2. DWDenise Welch
  I th- what it's made me question is... And again, I don't do the, "Oh, I did that in 1973 because I was obviously ADHD. I slept with that person because I've got ADHD."
3. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
4. DWDenise Welch
  You know, uh, I made some huge mistakes in my life because of alcohol and drugs, and I've had to come to terms with them. What I do wonder is, did ADHD play a part in my postnatal depression and in my drink and drug, um, abuse? Because to me, what I've always thought was it was me self-medicating clinical depression, but now they are finding links in postnatal depression and ADHD. W- but when I had a baby, there was nothing really in me that I would've said, "I'll go and see if I've got ADHD," you know? P- particularly.
5. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
6. DWDenise Welch
  They're finding the links, obvious where they know the links, with an inability with numbers and maths with a lot of, with a lot of people, which has always been something that's terrified me. I'm just about to be, well, I'm, um, a patron of, um, National Numeracy because it's, um, it's something that has really blighted parts of my life, not because I ever wanted a career in accountancy or i- or in economics of any degree, but just day-to-day ability to not be able to add up properly and have, have the, the English and drama side of your mind working.
7. APAlex Partridge
  Mm-hmm.
8. DWDenise Welch
  You know, if I'd really wanted to pursue languages, I possibly would've been quite good. But, um, but the math side and, and the just day-to-day not being able to work in a pub when I was 18 'cause I couldn't... We didn't have electronic tills.
9. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
10. DWDenise Welch
  So if people are going, "Three whiskeys, four vodka and tonics, and two gins," and you're trying to work it out in the background, you're sacked, you know?
11. APAlex Partridge
  Is there, th- there's something called dyscalculia.
12. DWDenise Welch
  Dyscalculia.
13. APAlex Partridge
  Uh, am I... I think I've pronounced that correctly.
14. DWDenise Welch
  I think you have.
15. APAlex Partridge
  So that comes up time and time again.
16. DWDenise Welch
  Yeah, I don't know if I have that or not because, again, I don't want to just give mys- oh, she's got-
17. APAlex Partridge
  More letters after your name.
18. DWDenise Welch
  Oh, here she goes.
19. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
20. DWDenise Welch
  She's got that as well.
21. APAlex Partridge
  Yeah, yeah.
22. DWDenise Welch
  But, you know, um- I, I, I am aware now that, that with the things that I, that I read, that, that there are links to all of these things. So many people with ADHD are alcoholics. I've been addicted to most things in my life, apart from physical fitness-
23. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
24. DWDenise Welch
  ... which I desperately try to get addicted to the gym, and it just doesn't happen.
18:40 – 20:17
Is there a link between acting and ADHD
1. APAlex Partridge
  Do you think there's a link between acting and your potentially dopamine-seeking ADHD brain?
2. DWDenise Welch
  Yeah, probably do. And I think my dad, now, looking back, I think my dad, w- the most wonderful person in my life, was probably ... I, I, I, now that I look for the signs and I know more about it, um, I see signs in, in, in, in that. I, yeah, I do think that it would attract the creative, the creative people. I was just so ... It was the boringness of everything.
3. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
4. DWDenise Welch
  And I just, you know, you can put it down to not having very interesting, very interesting teachers, but just th- things just wouldn't go in because I had zero interest. Um, and I, my mind was just constantly on other things. So when my mind was open to being in the school play when I was 15 by my drama teacher, and it had never occurred to me to go down that route. I wasn't sort of, "I really need this j-," you know, from being seven. I was always the star of ... What I could never understand was that when I was maybe seven and my mom would have a girls' night, why she would want me to go to bed, how that party would not be enhanced by my presence, was alien to me.
5. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
6. DWDenise Welch
  Completely alien.
7. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
8. DWDenise Welch
  Um, which, you know, could be down to arrogance. I just, it, it, it was incomprehensible to me that, that I wouldn't add to what, to what was, was going on. So I think certainly, um, the attention seeking si- side of things.
20:17 – 26:47
How would ADHD have been viewed by your parents
1. APAlex Partridge
  How do you think ADHD would be was, is viewed by your parents, or viewed by the, the time you grew up?
2. DWDenise Welch
  Again, again, I use d- depression as a serious condition, you know, that, that, that I had. I was incredibly lucky that I had the parents and the family that I did because from the moment I became ill, which was five days after having Matty, no one in my family, I'm talking about my immediate family of my sister, my mom, and m- my, my dad and, and, you know, my husband at the time, Tim, the boys' dad, nobody ever doubted that what I had was a very, very serious illness. Whereas the thousands of people that I have talked to, mentored, spoken to, been spoken to a- a- about depression, the amount of people who were told to snap out of it ... Well, my f- first autobiography was called Pulling Myself Together because if I had a pound for everybody that said to me, "Pull, pull yourself together. Snap out of it. What have you got to be depressed about?" I'd be a trillionaire. Um, and that was, you know ... And, and, and interestingly enough, it was my granny's generation that were the least supportive, understanding of the illness, and I think that definitely would have happened. So when I went to ... So I tried to throw myself out of a car to stop the pain. Um, I had a, a long, a, a wonderful pregnancy. A wonderful pregnancy. I was the typical wom- blooming woman in pregnancy. My skin was great. My hair was great. I was happy. I had a m- a, a, a husband who I loved. We had some money in the bank, and we were having a much wanted child. So socially, practically, everything was in place, and, um, I was the last person that you would have thought would have had postnatal depression. So when subsequently the psychologists on different talk shows I would do or chats I would do would say, "Mm, we would have been able to detect it," I would say, "With the greatest of respect for your profession, which I have in buckets, you wouldn't have known. You couldn't have known." I had not had one day of psychiatric illness before I had my child. I had a long labor, um, and, uh, you know, 42 hours without pain relief, wh- which they deemed was this nat- right on hospital [laughs] which I didn't know was a natural childbirth hospital when I went there. Um, but I would have happily been hit over the head with a, you know, spiked mallet, uh-
3. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
4. DWDenise Welch
  ... given the opportunity, but it wasn't available to me. But nevertheless, the baby came out, you know, all trendy on the floor, blah, blah, blah. Um, I didn't have any, um, second stage, so I was second stage seven hours, which I shouldn't have been allowed to go to, to the point that Tim said, "Are you sure you haven't kept your fucking tights on?"
5. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
6. DWDenise Welch
  But I couldn't get this baby out. [laughs] Um, but anyway, blah, blah, blah, wonderful. First few days, wonderful. Took him home on the fifth day, and, um, things went downhill from there, and I wasn't anxious. I wasn't, uh, I wasn't worried, and I had the first of, of a panic attack, and it was terrifying, and the whole lactation process stopped. So I had full breastfeeding, big bazookas as you would have, and overnight they went to spaniel's ears, and this community midwife came round and said, because there was no consistency in my care, I was going privately, so this community midwife came round, and she said very, very supportively, "Poor, that is, that is not right. That would mostly only happen if a spouse or a parent dies at this point." Well, that's not really what you want to hear. You want to hear, "Don't worry, this happens to lots of people. It's not the end of the world. You're gonna have to b- bottle feed him." That didn't happen. So this is where my family kicked in, and my mom took unpaid leave from work and stayed with me. So, uh, 'cause there was nowhere to go for help for this condition. But the point that I'm wanging on about here is that when my mom took me to my GP, who I'd never met before, I was almost catatonic. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I didn't know what was happening. I was apparently on the verge of a puerperal psychosis, where you lose all sense of reality, but I was in and out of lucidity, and I couldn't hardly talk. And, um, we got to the doctor's with me having, on the way down, I vaguely remember this, the taxi stopped, and I opened, opened the door to, to, to just, to create something that would take away from the pain in my head. And, um, we got to the doctor, and my mom was kind of talking for me because I, I was really monosyllabic. And, um, the doctor, who was probably a woman of about my age now, leant forward and said, um, "Well, I had five children, dear, and I just didn't have time to get depressed," is what she said to me. And I realized that my granny's generation, I love my granny very much, but they would all say, "Oh, come... What have you got to be depressed about? We had a mangle in the backyard. We had one outfit for the kids-"
7. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
8. DWDenise Welch
  "... one bottle. You know, you've got nothing, you young'uns." But then they would nearly always say, "Oh, Granny, what happened to Auntie Vera?" "Oh, she went a bit funny." But Auntie Vera was just put away. She was put into the type of mental institution that my mom used to work in, where they were rocking in the corner. And my mom would say to me, "There will be women like that," my mom was on a very high-grade ward, in what we used to call, you know, s- mental hospitals, and, uh, what we used to call them. And my mom said, "There will be people in here who are institutionalized who were put in because of undiagnosed, um, postnatal depression or subsequently menopause." But nobody knew, nobody talked about it at the time and, and ADHD would undoubtedly have been laughed at by, by most-
9. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
10. DWDenise Welch
  ... most people, I think. Um, but I just wish it was something... I don't know quite how it would've changed things for me, but it just, it's great for me that we are, that we are talk- talking, talking about, about, about it now.
26:47 – 37:25
How did you feel in your 40s?
1. APAlex Partridge
  You've said that you fe- you feel better in your 60s than in your 40s.
2. DWDenise Welch
  Yeah.
3. APAlex Partridge
  How did you feel in your 40s?
4. DWDenise Welch
  Drunk, to be fair.
5. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
6. DWDenise Welch
  [laughs] Hungover or drunk. Um, and, yeah. I mean, listen, I've managed to bring up two amazing children, you know, two wonderful young men who are both excelling in their chosen careers. With Matty, I don't talk about Matty very much. He's got his own life and, you know, you do something like this and the papers pick up what they want to pick up. But Matty was more affected by my addictions than, say, Louis was. Louis was nine when Lincoln and I got sober. He's never known his stepdad anything other than sober. He doesn't really remember some of the days. And also, I, I wasn't someone, as some of the press have m- made out over the years, you know, I wasn't going into the cupboard under the sink to get the cleaning stuff out and swigging a bottle of vodka in the morning and staggering around the house. That wasn't me. I was a binge alcoholic. And I was... I did, I didn't do cocaine until I was 38 years old. So if I'd been somebody that was into doing drugs, I would've been doing them at 21 when my friends would, some of my friends were playing with them. I had zero interest in drugs, zero, nada. I was happy with just a few glasses of wine or a few vodkas. But when I was 38, my depression reached its height. I did cocaine because someone offered it to me and said, "This will make you feel normal," and it did, initially.
7. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
8. DWDenise Welch
  One line of cocaine brought me back to a normal state for a time, but then it became something I couldn't go out without. And alcohol, less so for me. Cocaine is where the moral compass slips in your life. It is the worst drug in the world for me, for, to... It is a drug that lies to you. It's a disgrace. It changes your personality. And, um, you know, th- there are, there are behaviors on it that I can't even believe that was the same person. So when I say my 60s are better, something happened in 2019 whereby I had my last serious breakdown, that we used to call an, a nervous breakdown. It, uh, is now called an ep- an episode. However you want to term it, um, I had several over a, you know, 30-year period, some far worse than others. And, um, I, I had a, a, a really bad endogenous episode in 2019 from nowhere. And because I had been a mental health ambassador pretty much from a year after I had it, even though my, my well-knownness or my whatever status you call it was, was in its infancy then, it was still enough to get, you know, that the local paper picks it up, and then you do those kind of talk shows. And people were saying to me at the time in the '90s, um, "You don't wanna be talking about that. People will think you're mad. You'll never work." And I said, "I don't give a flying fuck. If someone doesn't employ me because I'm talking about depression, I don't want to work for that person." People said, "Have you ever lost jobs because of it?" I said, "Well, I don't know the reason why I maybe didn't get a job, but if it was because I was open about mental illness, then I w- I was glad that I didn't work for that person." And then, so 2019, because whenever I talked about it publicly, and Loose Women's given me a marvelous platform to talk about mental health issues and, and many other issues, but that's kind of my issue-
9. APAlex Partridge
  Mm-hmm
10. DWDenise Welch
  ... that I, I sort of talk about, and sobriety. Um, I am... So I'd had this episode, but, uh, whenever I talked about it was always in the past tense, so, you know, the last episode I had, when this happened, but obviously they're watching someone who is currently well talking about when they were poorly. So when this episode started to happen, I was driving up north with a friend of mine and her two kids. We'd been laughing and joking in the car, and we got to the Angel of the North, and I felt the signs. And this is where m- my masking has c- has, has come in because you don't want to ruin other people's time that they're having because of your illness. So the masking is intense, but the whole color has gone out of your life within 30 seconds. That's... It's like Technicolor to black and white, and you care about nothing. And I think that what people don't understand about mental health issues and mental illness and depression is that when people take the ultimate way out, which is sadly, um, taking their own life, it's not that they want to die, it's that they want to stop the pain, and you will do anything to stop the pain. Because it's often diagnosed as, uh, it's often described as sadness. Depression is the furthest thing from sadness. Sadness is an emotion that you are meant to feel when you are sad. So when my mom and dad died, you know, 12 years apart, but I was emotionally traumatized and sad like you would be when your beloved parents die. That's meant to happen. It would be odd if it didn't happen. It's not like that. Depression robs you of every single emotion that you have, so you feel nothing. And, um, anyway, something compelled me to pick up my phone. If my kids had been there or if Lincoln had been there, they would have told me not to, but I did, and I said, "I am going to chronicle this episode however long it takes," and I did. Not only... I'd pick it up in the morning, you know, and after three days, Lincoln came and got me and took me home, and I went to bed, and I was in bed for about four days, and when I woke up, it had gone viral, you know, to the point that I was a bong on News at 10. I'd never been a bong on News at 10-
11. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
12. DWDenise Welch
  ... for anything lovely before, but... And I remember being totally blindsided by it because I'd talked about it for so many years, but it was obviously the thing of seeing somebody go through it rather than just this is what I had, leading to, "Well, what have you got-
13. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
14. DWDenise Welch
  ... to be depressed about? You've got a lovely job. You've got this. You've got that." Um, and as a result of that, they asked me to do a, a book, which I, which I did, um, The Unwelcome Visitor, which is what I call my thing, and, um, something happened to me physically after that episode. It was like whatever happened to me hormonally, hormonally when I got postnatal depression seemed to end with what might have been the end of menopause. This is me being amateur doctor, amateur psychologist, amateur w- whatever because I know something's happened that wasn't anything that I've done, and I haven't had another episode since. And I realized that for... After six months, I realized that at the moment I'm free of this constant narrative in my head, which for 30 years I had woken up, and without even thinking about it, subconsciously it would be, "Right, how do I feel? Okay, what have I got on today? Okay, what if I got my thing? What if I got my thing? Oh, my God, I've said I'd go to that with, with, with, with Lincoln. It would ruin his thing if I get my thing. Oh, my God, the, the weather's dark. It's really black. Look at the weather m- map. See if it's gonna brighten up that day because dark weather is a, is, is a thing." And this was before I'd even pulled the curtains open, you know, and I'm free of that for the first time. Um, and so I, I, I don't, I don't know. I, you know, I don't, I don't know what that's been, but that's why I'm enjoying this time of my life. I don't think it's ever gone away, Alex. I think that it stays somewhere over there. I would never, ever say I don't have that any-
15. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
16. DWDenise Welch
  ... anymore. Um-
17. APAlex Partridge
  You said earlier that cocaine changes you.
18. DWDenise Welch
  Yeah.
19. APAlex Partridge
  Do, do you think it does change you, or do you think it brings out a, an amplified version-
20. DWDenise Welch
  Well, I, I-
21. APAlex Partridge
  ... of the part of you that's-
22. DWDenise Welch
  Well, you know, I, I don't, I don't know. Dear God, you know, fucking hell, if that's an amplified version-
23. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
24. DWDenise Welch
  ... of who I am, I'd, I don't know. Um-
25. APAlex Partridge
  An amplified version that could n- normally be trapped under a mask?
26. DWDenise Welch
  Well, the trouble is most people I know, whether they have ADHD, whether they have any other mental health issues, you know, they must have something going on to become addicted to cocaine, I suppose, but every single person who has been on cocaine, their moral compass is on the bottom. They make decisions that they would never, ever, ever, ever do, or, or, or, you know, um- I, I'm so grateful to having met my husband and, you know, the only thing we can thank alcohol for is that we met in a nightclub at 6:00 in the morning that didn't open till 4:00 AM. [laughs] Um, so only the hardcore-
27. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs] Yeah
28. DWDenise Welch
  ... were there. [laughs]
29. APAlex Partridge
  Yeah. [laughs]
30. DWDenise Welch
  And, um, you know, so that, had we... Our lives were so completely different and running in di- you know-
37:25 – 41:46
Why is the invisible disease of "mental health" difficult for others to understand
1. APAlex Partridge
  What do you think it is about the invisible disease of mental health and anxiety that is so difficult for other people to understand, and therefore very tricky for the person who's suffering with it?
2. DWDenise Welch
  Yeah. Well, I think that... It's interesting. My husband said to me when he had, um, witnessed my first ever episode, he said, "I've learnt so much from you, because I would definitely have been the kind of person that would've said, 'What has she got to be depressed about?'" You cannot explain, Alex, you know this, what goes on in our heads to people who've never experienced that. And I'm very lucky, as I'm sure you are, that I have friends around me who will say, "God, that must be fucking awful. I cannot comprehend what you mean." Because to most people, it's like when I'm doing a play and I am nervous, right? That's normal. You're gonna shit yourself before you go on stage. You're gonna stand backstage on your first night and think, "No one forced me to do this. No one made me say yes-
3. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
4. DWDenise Welch
  ... to this play." And now I'm doing a two-hander, me and Matthew Kelly standing backstage, only the two of us are gonna talk for two hours, and we're both no spring chickens. It's your fault, right? So normal nerves and that, that are completely gonna happen in, in, in my chosen profession. But what I would explain to people, I would say that I've been seriously ill going on stage before, and people would say, [laughs] "We've all had a bit of stage fright." And do you know what? I just go, "Yeah, I know," because I don't blame them for not understanding what nerves tipping into anxiety is.
5. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
6. DWDenise Welch
  The difference of that, of healthy nerves, thinking, "What am I doing this for? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I can't remember what I'm gonna say. I don't know what I say in act two. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God," all of those things are completely normal, but no one knows except people with this condition what that's like when it tips into anxiety, where literally I, I can't breathe. I can feel the old unwelcome visitor rising up. My mind goes blank. This is not just, "Oh, my God. I know it'll come to me when I get on." This is like, "I know nothing. I know... All I can think about is managing this condition and this illness," and it's fear. It does make me think, when that's happened on more than one occasion, why I ever go, "Yep, I'll do that again." [laughs]
7. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
8. DWDenise Welch
  I don't know.
9. APAlex Partridge
  Overcommit.
10. DWDenise Welch
  You know, it's funny because people say... I always say I'm the most opposite of an adrenaline junkie. So I'm not a sports person. I'm not an extreme sports person. When you see these things on Instagram that we all see of extreme things, people jumping off things, people climbing these mountains, it's like, "Why? When you can stay at home and watch Netflix and just... Why on earth would you do that?" But I am an adrenaline junkie because I put myself through those situations where those people would probably never stand on stage knowing they're gonna walk out in front of 1,000 people and having had three days rehearsal. Like when I did the Queen and the Diana story I told you off-air-
11. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
12. DWDenise Welch
  ... um, last year. We had three days rehearsal to put a full-scale musical on, and I was playing the Queen and singing, which is not my, which is not my, um, wheelhouse, you know? Um, with 3,500 people at Hammersmith Apollo, why would you do that? Why would you do that?
13. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
14. DWDenise Welch
  But I did, and of course I enjoyed it when it was over-
15. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
16. DWDenise Welch
  ... and you're getting all the pats on the back. But sometimes people don't know, um, what, what you go through to get there and why you continue to do it.
17. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
18. DWDenise Welch
  I mean, apart from the fact that the obvious reasons of it's what I do and I have to make money. You know, I have to, I have to earn money, of course.
19. APAlex Partridge
  I think it can be very isolating when you feel like you don't have that tribe around you or that group of people that do get-
20. DWDenise Welch
  Oh
21. APAlex Partridge
  ... what you're going through. It can be very lonely.
41:46 – 1:00:03
The link between being neurodivergent and loneliness
1. APAlex Partridge
  Do you think there is a link between being neurodiverse and the feeling of loneliness?
2. DWDenise Welch
  Yeah, I do. I do think that now. Yeah, I, I, I do, and I'm, I'm aware that n- I'm aware now that most people don't think in the same, in the same way as me, and how many times I have been lonely within a room or a company of actors because no one else... And I'll, I'll kind of step out and look on at their experience that everyone else is having except me, but that's where my masking would step into overdrive, of pretending that I was the same as, as everyone else, you know? Ooh But dying inside.
3. SPSpeaker
  Mm-hmm.
4. DWDenise Welch
  The amount of times, and I hope this never happens and people blame me, and this sounds really... I'm try- Yeah, I always, you know how you have to self-edit these days of how, how will something be pic- be picked up? The amount of times I have sat in a dressing room wishing that someone would come in and say, "The theater's on fire, we have to evacuate," praying that that would happen, that it would be out of my hands. And very sad for the theater, and obviously didn't want anyone to be hurt, but that the show could not go on. Because all of my life, the show has gone on when it didn't have to. And when you get asked that question, what would you say to your younger self? Mine is alwa- I get emotional with this, I don't know why. Fuck. Is that the show doesn't always have to go on. Sorry, don't know why, that's just affected me. But I just feel sorry for the person that sometimes did make the show go on. You know, having to, having to make sure I had drugs to get me through a situation because I couldn't cope without them, but then I couldn't cope with them. Making people believe that... 'Cause m- me being ill or even me being an, a, an, an addict, um, has never affected my work. My masking was so good. But when I think that some people would call in work because their eyelash fell off and the show would go on, I just wish that I hadn't put myself through so much, really. I mean, listen, part of me is I'm an old turn, you know? I mean, I tr- you know, I left drama school in 1979. I've been around a long time. I'm there from the days when we did an apprenticeship. You know, you did 40 weeks to get your Equity card, then you did another 40 weeks to get your full Equity card. You know, we didn't just come in off th- through these TV shows and, and, and stuff. Listen, I'm a reality whore, so, uh, I'm not dissing reality shows.
5. SPSpeaker
  [laughs]
6. DWDenise Welch
  But you know, there, there is a way into our industry now-
7. SPSpeaker
  Mm
8. DWDenise Welch
  ... that I wish it could go back to that there had to be sometimes an apprenticeship served. Um, 'cause I feel my profession has been infiltrated a, a, a lot, um, because of celebrity and fame. And listen, some people end up being great at, at these things they do, but many are there for the wrong reasons. And I think because I've got that, so I do have a show must go on attitude built into me from those days. You know, if you had-
9. SPSpeaker
  [clears throat]
10. DWDenise Welch
  ... if you had a severe bad back pain, if you had flu, you'd, you'd, you, you'd, you'd go on. But, um, there were times when, you know, in Coronation Street, when I had two serious mental breakdowns, and going in there and using, um, physical illnesses to not say what I had. Because although publicly I would be a mental health advocate, I would still know that people didn't really understand. So if you don't turn up to go to work on a TV show, there are 200 people who can't work that day, especially in something that works like a s- like a soap opera. You know, you're not doing a film where you're filming maybe a m- a minute a day. You're doing the equivalent of two movies in a week, right? With very little rehearsal. And, and so you, you know, you, you go to work and you, and you turn up. But the times that I was, it was, the times that I was dying, you know, I can remember waking up in the morning to go to work one day at Coronation Street, and, um, my depression was at an all-time high. And I knew that if I said, "I've got depression," they'd go, "She's got depression. We're all depressed about something." That would be the attitude, and I would kind of understand it because... But I would wake up in the morning and I would make myself vomit because the 10 seconds, off again, the 10 seconds of making myself sick would take away from the pain in my head. Um, I'm really surprised that I'm emotional about this. I really am. Um, it, it, yeah. But it, but I was having a serious mental breakdown, you know. And, and I would go to work and I would, I would curl up in the green room and pretend that I was asleep in be- you know, in between, in between bits and stuff. And, um, yeah, it, it... Because I didn't wanna tell anybody what was actually, what was actually going on. And then of course when people know that you drink, they will always put anything down to that. Um, so I would say that I had physical things wrong with me. I'd say, "I'm okay. I've just got, I've got s- I've got severe gastroenteritis," or, "I've got this," or, "I've got that," because people understand what that is. They understand physical things. It's like I've said before, you would never say to someone, you know, some people can have something as serious as cancer, but they don't look like they have. My mother didn't look like she had cancer for 20 years, until the very end. She was incredible. She lived with cancer. But if you knew that person had cancer, you wouldn't say, "Well, I know what you've got, but you look all right. You know, you don't look that bad."
11. SPSpeaker
  Mm.
12. DWDenise Welch
  "So why don't you get up, put a pair of trainers on, and get yourself out for a bloody good run? That'll make you feel better." But that's what they would say to me when I was curled up fetally. This is not the people close to me. This is people who didn't understand, or I'd hear secondhand what they'd said. "Why doesn't she just get up," you know? I remember Tim saying- In the early days that he would go to the pub and they'd say, um, "How's the missus then?" You know, or the, uh, "Oh man, take her to the MetroCentre and buy her a new frock.
13. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
14. DWDenise Welch
  That'll cheer her up." That's people's attitude.
15. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
16. DWDenise Welch
  And they say it's good to talk. Sometimes it's not because people don't understand. I have a very privileged life in that I have a soapbox, I have a voice that's listened to. It's not by a lot of people, I'm very Marmite, but you know, it i- it is listened to by a lot of people. But if you're Keith from accounts and you go to work and say, "I'm suffering from anxiety and depression," they may legally have to let you go home, but they don't fucking want to because we're all depressed. We all get anxious about things. "Keith's got anxiety again." If Keith had MS, they wouldn't say that. They wouldn't. And that's not, you know, uh, these are s- all, but they're all serious conditions.
17. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
18. DWDenise Welch
  It's just what you wouldn't say to someone where you can, you can see that condition, or y- you don't even have to see it. You just, you have more empathy with it because you have more understanding of it.
19. APAlex Partridge
  I think anxiety, I mean, it's such a, a, it comes up every episode. And it, and I've, I've been plagued by it my whole life, but there's something-
20. DWDenise Welch
  Was yours when you were young, did you have it?
21. APAlex Partridge
  Yeah, so I've, I've said this story a nu- number of times. Fi- first anxiety attack in a classroom when I was six, um, that racing mind, that sort of seven highly caffeinated squirrels just barreling around in my head all the time. I think I do a lot of public speaking now, and I drive to my talks, and there's something inside me that compels me to, to work and to not say no to things. But at the same time, the anxiety that cause, that comes from it, you said the theater burning down. When I'm driving to these talks, the thought process in my head is, "I hope I'm in a car crash," um, 'cause that'll give me a legitimate excuse-
22. DWDenise Welch
  Reason to not get there
23. APAlex Partridge
  ... to not go on that stage.
24. DWDenise Welch
  And have the car crash, yeah.
25. APAlex Partridge
  What, what compels you, do you think, to say yes?
26. DWDenise Welch
  I don't know, Alex, because you saying that, I remember doing a, um... It's the only, the only show that I've ever had to, that I've ever pulled out of because of my illness, and it was a pantomime in Stockport in 2004. And I remember that 'cause Louis was three, and I was giving my Wicked Queen in Snow White, and I chose this one because it was near to where I lived. And, um, and it's really weird because I was in rehearsals, a- and you know, with pantomimes, y- you get, like, about seven days or something to do what is in fact a full sta- scale musical really.
27. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
28. DWDenise Welch
  Um, and I was, I had just started on the first day, and I was feeling totally fine. And that night I went to the, um, Manchester Evening News Theater Awards, a very prestigious, the sort of Northern Oliviers type of thing, and I was nominated for Best Actress in a Leading Role for, um, a Jim, a, a Jim Cartwright play, The Rise and Fall of Little Voice, at the Royal Exchange Theatre in Manchester. And I had not been, I had not done theater for many years because of my illness through choice, and I had taken the bull by the horns and done it. Did I get ill when I was doing it? Yes. Did I get through it? Yes. Did I do a good turn? Yes. And I won this award, and my parents had come down and surprised me 'cause they'd been told I'd won, and I didn't know, and it was all wonderful. And I just felt, my God, it was like a, a real grown-up award, you know? Because I've always been a bit underestimated sometimes 'cause I've done lots of other things and I've diversified, and people forget that what I really do is that I'm a theater actress. That's my, my, uh-
29. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
30. DWDenise Welch
  ... my, my first love and, you know, what I do best, I think. Anyway, I won this, and it was great, and we all went out and had a few drinks afterwards. And I went to rehearsals the next day, and I got into my head, "Oh, my God, I've won this award now. Everyone's gonna have a, such a high expectation of me, even as the Wick-," you know, uh, the, "Wow, it's changed everything for me. It's a wonderful thing." But this was this dialogue going on in my head, and I could feel my anxiety. And, and I did this speech in rehearsals and I dried. And I said, "I'm, I'm really sorry. I, I know this speech." And they were going, "Oh, you're fine. You're just a bit, just a bit nervous." I wasn't. It was anxiety, and it was the beginning of, of the end. And I went through the rest of the rehearsals, and we opened, and I w- I remember sitting on this throne in the, in the theater, and everything was red. Everything turned red. And, and the words are coming out of my mouth while I'm thinking, "I'm gonna run out of the theater, and I'm gonna run in front of a car. I'm gonna, I'm not gonna die, but I'm gonna run in front of a car, or I'm gonna get in my car and I'm gonna crash my car, and then I'm gonna break my legs and I won't be able to go on the, the theater, on, on the thing." And, um, I got a week into the play, and I hadn't eaten for a week. I pretended to my family that I had, but I hadn't, and I collapsed in the interval in my dressing room. And my dresser rang my husband, and he came up to the theater and he said to the stage manager, "I'm terribly sorry, but she's not going on again." And I can remember going, "I have to go on. I have to go on." Like, it's like a dream to me. And he said, "No." And do you know something? The show went on. They got somebody to come in and read the role in for two days, and then they took over the role, and no one died But I'll always remember this review in the Stockport Express with great f- you know, with great apologies to the current Stockport Express. This is 20 years ago I'm talking about, and it really summed up our conditions. And it said, "Denise Welch let down thousands of people in Stockport by pulling out of a pantomime and disappointing thousands of children by citing," in inverted commas, "'nervous exhaustion.'" A, I never said those words. They weren't on my vocabulary, but that's what they deemed that I had. Whereas Penelope Pitstop or whoever the girl was playing Snow White, I don't remember, but obviously I wouldn't mention even if I did, but, um, "battled on despite a broken wrist with a plaster on her hand and saved the show." And I just thought, "There you go. There you go." I had nervous exhaustion-
1:00:03 – 1:07:06
What has appearing on Loose Women taught you about men
1. APAlex Partridge
  Denise, you've, you've mentioned Loose Women, uh, briefly.
2. DWDenise Welch
  Yeah.
3. APAlex Partridge
  What h- has the show Loose Women taught you about men and how women view men?
4. DWDenise Welch
  Well, one of the major, one of the... I've been doing Loose Women on and off for 23 years, would you believe? I mean, I can't believe it either, um, because I've done... You know, it's, it's a wonderful job inasmuch as many of us have other jobs as well. So, uh, and, and it's really only been the last 12 years where, maybe more, maybe 14 years, where it's been very much a staple of the daytime diet, whereas before it was a bit of a, it was on for three months, then off for three months, and 60 Minute Makeover would come on and we were nudged to half an hour and everything. One of the main misconceptions that people have about Loose Women is that we are anti-men. It could not be further from the truth We love men. I love men. I've been married to three.
5. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
6. DWDenise Welch
  And slept with many more.
7. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
8. DWDenise Welch
  Um, so believe you me, you know, I, I, I love men.
9. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
10. DWDenise Welch
  Um, and men love the show. A- a- again, a lot of people look at what people think of Loose Women by Twitter or X or whatever it, uh, it's called. You know, those people never watch an episode. They sit waiting for it to start to slag it off. They, they don't, they, they, they have no conception of what, of what the show's about. Having said that, it's hard to go down the rabbit holes of those said social media places, and I, and I do myself, you know? Um, but I love men. I think that we are very different animals, and I th- and I personally don't believe that we all have to be this, that we all have to be the same. I think men and women, and I know that there are now many other genders, and I respect all of them and, and everything, but I... Gender and sex are different things and, you know, I get as confused as everybody, but I, you know, I, I think I've, I've one ally of the... Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm as-
11. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
12. DWDenise Welch
  I, I, I, you know, I am, I'm inclusive to everybody. But talking about men and women-
13. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
14. DWDenise Welch
  ... I think we are different animals. And I remember, um, who was that, um, that, that, uh, the famous guy that dealt in human behavior? I can't remember what his name was. But he said a man and a woman living together is like a gorilla and a cat. Actually, that is how different we are. But I accept and I love those differences, I think. Um, I don't know that I needed Loose Women particularly to learn about men. Um, but I find, I find the difference between us quite fascinating. I do think that things like man flu irritate me.
15. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
16. DWDenise Welch
  That m- that now apparently it's proven that man flu does exist and stuff.
17. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
18. DWDenise Welch
  I don't know why when my husband has a cold, he has to clutch the furniture.
19. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
20. DWDenise Welch
  Why it involves going from A to B across a room, from the table to the chair, clutching-
21. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
22. DWDenise Welch
  ... when you have a cold, you know? Um, but you all do.
23. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
24. DWDenise Welch
  Without exception, I think.
25. APAlex Partridge
  Yeah, yeah. I've just come out of a, of a, I, I said it was flu. My partner was, was rolling her eyes, but very dramatic.
26. DWDenise Welch
  It's just so dramatic.
27. APAlex Partridge
  And very, very ill.
28. DWDenise Welch
  And also, if you also believe, all of you men, and I am generalizing because it's true, that if you don't... That we've forgotten how ill you are unless you cough every five minutes.
29. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
30. DWDenise Welch
  There has to be [coughs] just so we remember how ill you are.
1:07:06 – 1:13:08
What has Loose Women taught you about women
1. APAlex Partridge
  What do you think the show's taught you about women then, and, and the struggles that women face?
2. DWDenise Welch
  And we do face struggles. And, um, well, I mean, obviously menopause has been massive from a, from a physical point of view. Menopause is like the new dyslexia, where everyone just thought you were sick if you, i- if, you know, and then we discovered that it wasn't that.
3. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
4. DWDenise Welch
  ADHD, a similar thing. We weren't just bored or being naughty, or maybe we were sometimes, but you know, there wa- there was also other neurodiverse things g- going on. Um, I think women are brilliant. I love, I love women. I love the strength of women. Um, I think the more women in power make the world a better place. I think that, again, another misconception, and this is to do with the media, and it drives me up the fucking wall because we're trying to teach people not to bully, not to be mean, and yet they're doing it all the time. And they are constantly putting us in a situation where if we have, this really pisses me off, if we have a h- a heated debate, as, uh, Mrs. Merton used to say, for those old enough to remember, that's what this show is about. This show is about at any one time four different women having, um, having different opinions, different anecdotes, sometimes the same opinions or the same anecdotes, and having heated debates about stuff that they, you know, w- have a vo- have a voice that they want to share. I love it because we are the only show on television, and one of the few in the world, which not only employs older women, reveres and respects the voices of older women. Our girls range from 24 to 84, you know, and I think that's in- in- incredible, and all of those voices are, are, are completely relevant. But if we ever have a slight difference of opinion that might include, "Well, hang on a minute," you know, "I'm, I'm da, da, da, da, da," the p- we are in feisty exchange, toxic warfare. Um, Denise Welch and Stacey Solomon. Oh, Stacey wiped the floor with Denise. It's fucking disgusting. You know? We're talking about people who really struggle with, with self-esteem, and we're talking about be nice and don't bully, and the, the online media are the worst bullies of all time. And so sometimes I am self-editing because I can't be arsed with how what I say is going to be pursued, which then leads-
5. APAlex Partridge
  Yeah
6. DWDenise Welch
  ... to a Twitter pile-on and stuff, you know? It drives me mad.
7. APAlex Partridge
  Even with the best, like, self-editing in real time, do you ever go away, overthink that you've said something that you shouldn't have done? Does that-
8. DWDenise Welch
  Oh, God
9. APAlex Partridge
  ... cause the anxiety to come back?
10. DWDenise Welch
  I mean, uh, well, yeah. I mean, it us- Yeah. It, yeah, I do. Sometimes I've said things, but it's, to be honest, it's not that I've upset Doris from Darlington, because I genuinely these days really don't care about Domi- Doris from Darlington. Um, sorry, Doris, if there's a real Doris from Darlington-
11. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
12. DWDenise Welch
  ... because I, you know, I, I, I do care, but there's a, there's a Doris from Darlington on Twitter is who I'm refer- [laughs]
13. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
14. DWDenise Welch
  ... who I'm referring to. Um, so yes, I do go away, more so if I've said something that might impact on my family. Even when I'm doing something like this, I am very aware of how things can be picked up that will impact on my family, especially my children. So I am very limited as to how much I talk about them. Um, because my children are doing professions which lead to them being more well-known, it is more. But you know, the funny thing is we all talk about it, all the girls. When our kids were little, we'd talk about them till the cows come home, 'cause they didn't know. Now, Kay Adams will be about to say something and she'll go, "I can't. My girls will kill me. I can't. I absolutely can't." And we want to know what that opinion, but she, the, the kids don't wanna be on Loose Women. They don't wanna be talked about on the, the television, you, you know? So we're all in that situation. Some for just slightly more different, uh, more, more different reasons. Um, but we are all a very, the, you know, the strength of, of, of our friendships, and we're not all in each other's pockets all the time, but dear God, when the chips are down, even those who maybe are more f- you know, less friendly than... In all the years I've been doing this, I will say categorically, I have never had an off-screen argument with one of the Loose Women. Not one. And in fact, I can't remember anybody else. Yes, of course, there are people that people prefer to. There are panels that I prefer because I bounce off people better, or they've got more of my sense of humor, or I know that they're not gonna be as sensitive if I take the Mickey out of their love life because there's others that I don't know as well to do that, you know? But we are, um, we are very, very supportive of, of each other. And every single one of those women has come, um, uh, has s- supported me through my issues. I mean, you've got, you know, a couple of the women who genuinely did not understand mental health issues or understand neurodiv- neurodiversity, but what they do is they want to learn from it. They're not, you know, dismissive of it, of it at all. Um, I think that women are wonderful listeners. We also share the panel with men now as well. You know, we do, we do Loose Men. We do Loose Men and Women. Men are less likely to open up about themselves. I liked it recently 'cause I got to anchor, and it was Martin and Vernon. And I liked it because whereas the men would try to deflect into a joke, I would, 'cause I was in the position of being the boss-
15. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
16. DWDenise Welch
  ... I could try to bring them back. "Well, hang on a minute, but when you said that."
17. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
18. DWDenise Welch
  "When you said that," because men will try to joke off, out-joke each other to get out of talking about something more personal perhaps.
1:13:08 – 1:15:01
A stalker
1. APAlex Partridge
  I don't know how much you're, uh, able to talk about it or even if you want to, but you've had a situation with a stalker
2. DWDenise Welch
  It's not been very pleasant. I, because of where we are wi- with the situation with his release and whatnot, um, I can't say too much, but it has been, um, a, a terrifying situation and something that when I can, I will be talking much more about the fact that we have to take this much more seriously. Uh, many people much more, um, much cleverer than me and much more influential than me are doing amazing things in the world of stalking. I've been very lucky that I've had a marvelous harm reduction unit who have seen myself and my husband through a lot of the emotional side of it. But the harm reduction unit is a postcode lottery, and I'm just lucky that we had one. But there are other people who don't have the benefit of that, and it's a terrifying situation. And all I will say is, believe you me, until you're involved in something like this is when you realize that the law is on the side of the perpetrator, not the victim in most cases.
3. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
4. DWDenise Welch
  It's all about their human rights, not my human rights, their human rights. And if I didn't have this backup team fighting, I would've been lost in a wilderness and my, you know, my fragile mental health may well have been shaken more than, than it has been. And also, you know, it's been very hard for my husband because he's a, he's an alpha male protector. And when that's taken out of your hands, it's a very frightening situation. And what, I am all for rehabilitation, I am all for people being able to move on, but when with somebody who's shown no accountability and no remorse, and their human rights are more important than yours, that is just not on, and it's something that-
5. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
6. DWDenise Welch
  ... absolutely has to change.
7. APAlex Partridge
  Well, we'll leave that there.
8. DWDenise Welch
  Yeah.
9. APAlex Partridge
  But thank you for-
10. DWDenise Welch
  Yeah
11. APAlex Partridge
  ... for sharing.
12. DWDenise Welch
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
13. APAlex Partridge
  Good luck with the process.
1:15:01 – 1:21:23
Matty
1. DWDenise Welch
  Thank you.
2. APAlex Partridge
  Um, you're also well known for having a successful musician son, Matty.
3. DWDenise Welch
  Mm-hmm.
4. APAlex Partridge
  Um, this is very much not about Matty. I know you don't want to speak about your children. Um, we know many people who have made their name in their own right, naming no names, who didn't raise someone to be successful in their own right. So what did you do right?
5. DWDenise Welch
  Wow. Um, I don't know, 'cause I did lots of things wrong. And you know, Matty and I have had to have our... We're not religious, so it's not context- contextu- conte- what's the name of that big word? Um, I'll leave that to Matty. We had to have a come to Jesus about, you know, things that I was in denial about how my behaviors had impacted on him. Um, he has also said, "But then again, Mom, if our house wasn't a bit rock and roll, I wouldn't be doing what I am doing." But you have to take accountability, and I was very defensive. All alcoholics are defensive. All alcoholics, when pushed into a corner, will blame somebody else-
6. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
7. DWDenise Welch
  ... for why that's happened to them. It's my illness. It's because, because of this. It's because I was getting a divorce. It's because of this. It's not. Like I said before, there are not excuses, there are reasons. And, um, my son wrote the most wonderful song on one of his albums, I can't remember which one, called She Lays Down. For anybody who wants to hear poetry in motion about what we have, to a degree, is his version of my illness when he was older. And he remembered that when he was old enough to understand, I, um, 'cause my kids just thought I was poorly, I just went to bed 'cause I was poorly, and they were protected from what, what it was. They didn't understand at young ages, especially Matthew. Um, but, um, when I was old, when he was old enough, when he was grown, I told him that, about depression and how you lose the ability to love, and how I used to lay down beside him on the floor, praying, not to God, 'cause I'm not religious, but to whatever, to the universe, to whatever, to help me love my son again. And, um, it really obviously impacted on him because he knows the relationship that we have and the love that we have for each other, and it's almost incomprehensible, but that is how extreme that illness is. And it's an incredible song that he didn't tell me when he was writing it, so I only heard it when it was done and made. And it's, um, it's really quite, you know, quite something. So I always say I did a lot of things wrong, but you know, between his dad and I, we did a lot right. And their stepparents also, I have to give credit for any stepparent out there. It's a bloody tough, it's a tough one, you know? And they've done a great job in helping with, uh, with, w- with, w- with our, with our kids, uh, particularly Louis again, because, you know, Matty, Matty was grown. But, um, he's always known what he, he, he's always known w- what, what he, what, what he's wanted, Matthew, and he's been singularly focused on it and driven, and we supported him. Um, we supported both our children to follow their heart and their dreams and do whatever they wanted to do. Were there times I was screaming, "Get a fucking job?" Yes, there were. But, um-
8. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
9. DWDenise Welch
  But, you know, now when I watch him play Madison Square Garden, I'm thinking-
10. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
11. DWDenise Welch
  ... "Oh, there's my retirement hopefully." [laughs]
12. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
13. DWDenise Welch
  We're very proud of them both. And my stepson-
14. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
15. DWDenise Welch
  ... Louis, who's given us Theo, our, our, our grandson, who, my God, if any little tiny dot can change your life, you know, it's unbelievable what joy that's brought to our lives. Incredible.
16. APAlex Partridge
  I was reading Matty had a, has, has a tattoo on his foot in dedication to you.
17. DWDenise Welch
  Yeah, he does. Yeah, his dad's on his wrist and I'm on his foot, so there you go. We joke about that. It was one of his first ones. I think it was when he was going through the periods where he was trying to pretend that... I've never been a lover of tattoos, and I think that stems from my mum. My mum, "Oh, I hate tattoos. Oh, I hate them." So I hated tattoos. And then of course my son's a rock star, so of course he's gonna have tattoos. I, it, funnily enough, you know- Um, she wouldn't have minded the one that says, "Annie," across her ac- that's my mom, on, on, on his chest. And, um, [laughs] I remember my sister and I watching him on some talk show in America, and they were saying, "You know, so what is, who, who's Annie?" And he said, "Oh, that's my nana." And Debbie and I were going, "Oh, my God, my mother would have loved to have been talked about-
18. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
19. DWDenise Welch
  ... on Entertainment Today [laughs] in Ameri- in America." But I think that the Denise was when he was trying to hide them from me. So he's, he was, he went through a period of wearing cardigans and stuff, and stuff that he could pull the sleeves up and down, and it was all to, to m- to mask that tattoo. But I'm just very honored that I'm, I'm somewhere on him, you know. Yeah.
20. APAlex Partridge
  It's quite a, a permanent dedication, a permanent gesture of, of-
21. DWDenise Welch
  Yeah. We have a very, very strong, um, love for each other, m- you know, w- w- my kids, and I'm very, very fortunate. I have to try to stop being so helicopter-y. Um, [laughs] Louis said to me, "Mom, when you call me and I don't answer, and you call me two, three, four, five times and I still don't answer, do you think, A, I'm dead?" And I went, "Yes." [laughs]
22. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
23. DWDenise Welch
  Not he's in rehearsals, he's with somebody, he's not in vicinity of a signal. It's why do I do that? But of course, I realize now this is all, this is all very much ADHD.
24. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
25. DWDenise Welch
  This helic- I've got worse with helicopter, um, parenting. Much, much more. This, um, desire to know where they are, which is very diff- difficult when one of them lives in Los Angeles. [laughs] You know, it's very hard. Constantly looking at my phone-
26. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
27. DWDenise Welch
  ... what time it is, tracking him around the world. Oh, my God, I drive myself mad with it.
28. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
29. DWDenise Welch
  Um, sensitivity gene as well is, I realize now, is a very ADHD thing. I think our sensitivity-
30. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
1:21:23 – 1:23:33
Being a mother, the good and the bad
1. APAlex Partridge
  How do you think you were as a mother? Good and the bad.
2. DWDenise Welch
  Someone said something interesting to me re- recently, or did I read it? I don't know whether it was personally to me, but they said, "You grow up with your first child, and you parent your second child." And it made a lot of sense to me because you're learning. You've never done it before. There's no guidebook for it. I was thrown into an abyss of desperation because I didn't fit the bill on the front of Parent and Baby magazine, and that's what we've been sold for hundreds of years, that that's what you should look like on the front. So I didn't know what to do and how to deal with that, and of course, I, you know, I took a dark path to, to deal with it because I didn't feel the help was there for me and, and there was no one talking. When I was talking out about my illness, I was the only person. We had four TV channels. We had no social media. There was nowhere to go for help, you know. Um, I think that I did... You know what? I think I did the best I could. Were there things I would do differently now? Oh, my God. People say you shouldn't have regrets. I think it's impossible not to have regrets. I would love to do re- redo parts of Matty's childhood. But then again, he's the person that he is, warts and all, our warts and all, um, because of he's a product of, of, of his upbringing, and he's, he's a great person and he's a sensitive person. Um, and I'm very proud, proud of them both. I did the best I, the, did the best I could. Could I done better? Yeah, we could all, we could all-
3. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
4. DWDenise Welch
  ... have done better in, in, in all, in many, many areas of, of life. Um, and when you're sober for 12 years and you think back, you think, "Wish I'd, I wish I'd been this person then," but I wasn't. But I was still a kind person, and I was still a nice person, but I was a very troubled person.
1:23:33 – 1:28:02
The ‘worst’ side of Denise that the public don’t see
1. APAlex Partridge
  Does that elastic band spring back sometimes? I- I- Is there a worst, what's the worst side of Denise that, say, the public don't see, and is that sensitivity a part of that?
2. DWDenise Welch
  I think I, if, if, if sensitivity is a bad thing, it's something that affects me ob- ob- obviously. I, my, my, my favorite quote, um, "It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice." I really do adhere, adhere to that. I have never intentionally hurt anybody. I never would intentionally hurt anybody. If I walk away from a situation thinking, that's when I will have my anxiety nights, thinking that somebody thinks I meant something different. And I have a husband who is the yin to my yang, who will say, "You didn't mean that. And if they think you meant that, that's on them, because they know what kind of a person you are, Denise, and that you would never say anything mean." And I think that all the people who love me know, know that, know that. Um, I'm very forthright, and I think I'm a bit, not really misunderstood, because it is a side of me. You know, if you get me on television supporting Meghan Markle, and someone comes on who was paid to lie in an interview to say that, the Meghan Markle documentary was absolutely dire when they'd not even seen it, then I'm gonna kick off with that person. Doesn't mean I'm a horrible person. It means I've got a voice that I'm prepared to use to support someone that I don't know, but that I feel gets a terrible, terrible rap in this world, is Meghan Markle. And, um, so, and then of course you get the people who are anti-Meghan Markle, who will portray me on social media to be a bully It's like, well, I've never bullied anyone in my entire, entire life. If you mean by checking someone that I vehemently disagree with because they're denigrating someone that they don't know either. You know, I don't know how she gets through every day, that woman, I really don't. I really, really don't. She's the most bullied woman in this world. But if you stick up for someone, you're then accused of being a bully, you know? So, um, but those people now I have learnt I really don't care about, the troll- the troll world, but I used to. And when I talk about being, being, um, something that you're saying taken out of context, I- I do get upset because people's opinion of you is sometimes based on that media interpretation of you, you know? Um, people say we shouldn't take any notice of what's on the magazines. Well, I'll tell you differently. We should, because if you are portrayed as a certain way on the front of a magazine, right, unfairly, believe you me, I've been fairly portrayed on them, but many unfairly. And, um, th- there was once when I returned to Loose Women in 2018, and, um, the w- I- I know who the s- source was, and- and they're- they're nothing in my life, but, um, there was a front page of- of one of the women's magazines, and I use the word loosely sometimes, women's magazines, and it was Diva Denise, and it was that my demands were that I was paid more. I mean, it's, it makes me laugh, that I was paid more than the other Loose Women, that I affected the whole lighting to be changed in the- in the studio. Right. I'd had one meeting with the producer. There was me [laughs] my agent, and the producer when I said, "Yeah, I'd love to come back. I left seven years ago. You're here now. Fabulous. I'd love to come back." As if I would, as if I would have any ability. But the thing is, I am the most un-diva person, Alex. So the fact is, there have been far worse things said on, about me on the front of a magazine, but that's how I was being portrayed on the front page and over two pages. So if you have that magazine, and it's in Sainsbury's when someone's doing their shopping, and you've got a producer walking by who's thinking of maybe using Denise Welch for something and maybe using another actress for something, that subconsciously goes into their brain, and they go with the other person. So it actually, there is a subconscious to what we read. We're all a bit guilty of seeing something about someone we like and saying, "That's ridiculous." Seeing something about someone we don't like, going, "Oh, no smoke without fire." You know, I can be as guilty of it as- as- as well, but they need to take more of a responsibility.
1:28:02 – 1:47:39
RSD + justice sensitivity
1. APAlex Partridge
  And when- when you sort of see something like that, and I guess it might trigger something inside of you, um, I'm alluding to RSD, the sensitivity to- to criticism and rejection-
2. DWDenise Welch
  Un- It's when it's unfounded. So if I am criticized because of something that- that- that- that ... If people don't agree with me, and they put forward a valid point as to why they don't agree with me, fill your boots. If I do a play or something on television as an actor and somebody doesn't like my performance, will I be upset about that? Yes. But they have a right to say that they didn't think I did the job that they thought I should do, or they just don't like my character or whatever. So I, you know, y- y- yes, I'm sensitive to it. Where I get the word triggered is when I am perceived as something that I'm not by people who just make up stuff or just twist stuff to get a click- a click on, 'cause we know that most of those people aren't journalists. They're 20-year-olds who've got to get a- a- a click- a click bait for something. But actually, they are quite powerful, those, because they all sit in our- they all sit in our, you know, sub- subconscious. We've all got views of people by what we've read online about them.
3. APAlex Partridge
  Well, a close relative of RSD is- is justice sensitivity. It's the injustice of it. You know you're- you're being wrongly, uh, represented. You see that, and it- it's a- it's a trigger of sensitivity-
4. DWDenise Welch
  It is
5. APAlex Partridge
  ... but it's not a rejection or a criticism. It's the injustice of it.
6. DWDenise Welch
  It is the injustice of it, um, and also the injustice of not really having a right to reply because if you reply to it, you just fuel the fire, and it makes it 10 times, 10 times worse.
7. APAlex Partridge
  And some people report to sort of internalize that feeling of- of intense sadness. Sometimes some people, it comes out in rage. Or what camp do you think you fit in?
8. DWDenise Welch
  Um, well, a diff- I would've probably found solace in- in- in other ways back in the day. I'm very, very fortunate, Alex, that I have an incredible marriage. I do talk about my husband a lot because he ... My marriage is the bedrock of my life, you know? If all's good in- if all's good in the hood, I'm okay, and I can deal with other stuff. And wh- when I said before we've yinged and yanged each other, we really have. Lincoln thinks that I turned on a sensitivity gene in him that had died many years before, and he'd become insensitive and didn't give a fuck about a lot of things. I've turned on that in him, and he has helped me toughen up a bit about certain things. You can't completely change somebody's character, but he will- he will talk me through stuff. So if I'm feeling particularly sensitive about something that somebody said, I have him as my sounding block, and he will- he will talk me through it and make me think it's not that important. Whereas left to my own devices, I would dwell and start to spiral about it. It- it's- it's when the f- It's- it's the fact that it can be someone in a supermarket queue, and say I haven't noticed the person standing there, so I- I go and put my stuff on the trolley, and the person may say, "Oh, push in, why don't you?"
9. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
10. DWDenise Welch
  I will go, "Oh my God, I didn't ... " I- I, and I will fill up With tears. Because that person thinks that I'm a person that would push in front of her without any qualms and, and, and do that. And Lincoln will talk me down about how unimportant it is that a random woman that you will probably never see again thought you'd pushed in, and rationalize it for me, because I would spiral with that. Because of the injustice of her thinking. I'm a, I'm a nice person, and I would have actually stood back and let you go in front of me if I saw... 'Cause I would do that. If I've got six items and someone's got one, I will let them go forward in the queue, and I want to scream, "That's who I am-
11. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
12. DWDenise Welch
  ... and you're thinking I'm a person that doesn't give a shit that you're, that you're there." Whereas with other people, it would be such a non-entity part of their day that they might go later, "Oh, there was this stupid cow in the supermarket thought I'd pushed in. I told her to fuck off, and off I went. Job done." You know? And, and it, it wouldn't even, it just wouldn't even penetrate them.
13. APAlex Partridge
  There's the extra energy that, that we have to expel, um, that-
14. DWDenise Welch
  Do you know that I-
15. APAlex Partridge
  ... a lot of neurotypical people don't. It's, and it's invisible. No one sees it, apart from us
16. DWDenise Welch
  It's the extra energy, and I think we've both obviously carried that all, all through. Um, yeah. And, and, and, you know, mine takes an extra dollop because, because I voluntarily put myself on a show where I, you know, I'm committed to certain, certain things. Um, and, and I will, you know, there are certain hills that I will be prepared to die on as well for my, for my beliefs, not really in a political sense. Um, but, you know, I'm not going down the, the COVID route, but, you know, I took a, I took a battering, um, during that time because I was so committed to a lot of the bullshit. It was never to do with the vaccine. I was called a COVID denier. I was called... It was so far from that. It was, it was about a lot of the bullshit, a lot of the scotch egg bullshit, you know? And, and, and it still comes out now. We were in a situation where we were told that we banged our pots and pans on a Thursday night for the NHS, which we did, quite happily. I was one of them. We were told to stay at our door and do that, because this disease was gonna, you know... And we were, we were, we were banging our pots and pans on the doorstep, and at the same time, people were threatened with arrest if they went to console their mother who had buried their father of 50 years, and they couldn't move their chairs in a church hall to go and sit with her. At the same time, I turned on the telly on a Thursday night, and Westminster Bridge and Battersea Bridge was full of people clapping with the ambulances, the police, and the sirens all going in a carnival atmosphere while people clapped for carriers, carers a thousand long. And I thought, "Where the fuck's COVID gone on a Thursday?"
17. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
18. DWDenise Welch
  Outside the hospital, there was people who'd taken their guitars down with bottles of wine, and all the nurses, they all came out the hospital and they all put their arms around each other. And when it finished, they all went back in the hospital. Where was COVID on a Thursday night? It vanished, and I thought, "Fuck this. Fuck you. Not having it." Right? And, and Doris, not Doris, this is Doris from Devon.
19. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs] Poor Doris.
20. DWDenise Welch
  Doris couldn't bury, couldn't have more than two people at the funeral.
21. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
22. DWDenise Welch
  Okay? That was my hill I was gonna die on. Don't scotch egg your way out of this with your fucking scotch egg, but you can walk around and go to the toilet and put your mask on. It's bullshit. It was never about the vaccine. I never even hardly mentioned the vaccine. My thing was the vaccine mandate. Once we know it doesn't stop transmission, you have it, Alex, fill your boots with it. I had it as well, but don't force people, 'cause it doesn't stop transmission. But that was a later thing. Mine was the bridge bullshit. I've got that off my chest. I don't, I rarely-
23. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
24. DWDenise Welch
  ... don't talk about it. I rarely... But I've got that off my chest.
25. APAlex Partridge
  But it's-
26. DWDenise Welch
  'Cause it starts to come back up sometimes.
27. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
28. DWDenise Welch
  And I'm just putting out there that it was never those things. I was never in a million years the things I was... But it was easy to call me that, 'cause I was very, had a very big voice about it at the time.
29. APAlex Partridge
  I mean, RSD co- continuously takes center stage on this podcast and in the community, this, this reaction to criticism and rejection, but actually I think justice sensitivity, its sort of less spoken about cousin, uh, which I, I think you're talking about with, with the story you just told. It's that flare-up to injustice when you've been treated unfairly-
30. DWDenise Welch
  Yeah, and I think-
1:47:39 – 1:52:22
Never having a daughter
1. APAlex Partridge
  You've had, you've had sons.
2. DWDenise Welch
  Yeah.
3. APAlex Partridge
  If you did have a daughter, do you ever think what her characteristics might be?
4. DWDenise Welch
  Yeah. Um, I would be... When I say I feel safer having s- sons, I think I probably just mean more from the, from the physical side of things. I would... I mean, my God, if Lincoln and I had had a daughter, God knows, because his protection thing would've gone in, into, into overdrive these days. That would've been a nightmare. She probably wouldn't have left the house till she was 28.
5. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
6. DWDenise Welch
  Um, but yeah, I mean, I've never sort of hankered after having a daughter. I was so grateful. You know, obv- obviously I, I had troubles wh- when I had Matty, and then I was so grateful to be pregnant at 42, and then Louis was poorly. You know, he had a thing called Hirschsprung disease. So, um, funnily enough, I, you know, I have a son who I think is well because it can't be detected at scan. I'm 42, I've had every other test done, amniocentesis, and as far as I'm concerned, I'm having a healthy child, for a woman at 43 years old when he was eventually born. So I'm so grateful. I didn't care what sex he was, I was just so grateful. Then, of course, three days after birth, he was poorly and we, we discovered he had a thing called Hirschsprung disease, which, um, h- had it been before 1948, he would've been a child who didn't thrive. That was when the first operation was, and the wonderful Alder Hey Hospital saved his life, you know, on, um, on, on, on two, two occasions. So I never, um, I never kind of hankered after, after having, um, a daughter. And I also think I've been very lucky that my... I, I'm very close to my two boys. Um, their girlfriends often came to us. It wasn't like sometimes you lose your son, but you've always got your, always got your-
7. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
8. DWDenise Welch
  ... your daughter. But I, I don't know, Alex. I, I would hope that I would have a w- you know, a lovely relationship with my, with, with With m- with my daughter. Um, do I think that there are traits of mine that the kids have got? Yeah, but they've also got, you know, a very sturdy, a very sturdy Geordie, Geordie dad, you know, who's very down to earth. Um, I don't, I've never really talked about ADH- ADHD with him, but he's very sort of practical. He was always, you know, yes, we divorced, yes, things didn't go the right way. We're, we're still friends. We all s- spend time together. Um, and he was, you know, for a man from his background, he was incredibly understanding-
9. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
10. DWDenise Welch
  ... about my, a- a- about my illness.
11. APAlex Partridge
  [clears throat]
12. DWDenise Welch
  And I'm sure he would've been about-
13. APAlex Partridge
  [clears throat]
14. DWDenise Welch
  ... about any- any- anything else as, as, as well. So, um, I think I would've had a, a very vibrant, sensitive daughter. I think sensitivity is a wonderful thing. It's just when you have it to our level, it can become a problem. But I wouldn't swap it for the alternative, which is not giving a shit about people or anything-
15. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
16. DWDenise Welch
  ... or what's going on. You know, um, I know I can't help the situations i- i- in the world sometimes, but I, you know, we all have those friends who go, "Oh, I don't know. I just, I put my head in the sand, and I don't let it bother me." And I think, "Wow, am I jealous of that, or am I annoyed with that? Is there part of me that would like to be able to do that, to just let the world's woes trickle off me?" I'd- I'd- I'd ra- I'd choose what I am like-
17. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
18. DWDenise Welch
  ... as opposed to genuinely not caring. Um, I'm very sensitive to, to, you know, any kind of, when I say family conflict, we're not, we're not a big conflict family, but I like it when everything's great.
19. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
20. DWDenise Welch
  You know? And then I'll talk to somebody-
21. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
22. DWDenise Welch
  ... even just a friend the other day who'd had a massive fallout, uh, with their family, and she was all right. She was pissed off about it, but it was a big fallout, and I'm thinking, "I'd be in the corner." You know? I w- I, I would be in the corner with that. But maybe it's much better to be her.
23. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
24. DWDenise Welch
  Because it probably will get resolved, but, uh, i- it would be tou- very tough for me to have that kind of a fallout. It has resolved. They've kissed and made up, but I wouldn't have been able to go through my day.
1:52:22 – 2:02:32
Denise’s ADHD item explanation
1. APAlex Partridge
  Mm. Denise, I wanna move attention back to the table in front of us, which has got your ADHD item on it-
2. DWDenise Welch
  Yes
3. APAlex Partridge
  ... which is a DVD of Real Housewives.
4. DWDenise Welch
  Right.
5. APAlex Partridge
  And I wanna hear your explanation as to why that's your ADHD item.
6. DWDenise Welch
  Well, to be honest, I was confused when you asked for my ADHD item. So first of all, before I embarrass myself-
7. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
8. DWDenise Welch
  ... tell me what you exactly mean by an ADHD item.
9. APAlex Partridge
  So a- anything that represents how ADHD has showed up in your life, and I suppose the best way to do it is probably to pull some examples from the, the, the showcase of other items behind me. So my item is a washing machine-
10. DWDenise Welch
  Right
11. APAlex Partridge
  ... because, for me, I always forget my laundry in my machine, which is obviously a, a bigger representation of general memory loss and, and forgetting my reusable shopping bags and all sorts of stuff. Um, time, so this was Martine McCutcheon's. Time being general lateness or earliness-
12. DWDenise Welch
  Right
13. APAlex Partridge
  ... or, um, time blindness. Ice, ice baths, was a neuroscientist who, who his item was ice, because ice, he thinks, is the biggest tool for improving focus with ADHD. Um, Paul Whitehouse and Min- Mina was a stick of dynamite, which is above you, because she has a very explosive character, when, which is her words, uh, which again, is a byproduct of the RSD we were discussing.
14. DWDenise Welch
  Right.
15. APAlex Partridge
  Um, so in our case-
16. DWDenise Welch
  Okay. So mine is more ven- venturing towards the, the, the, the, the DVD version of the ice bath. When I find myself spiraling, some people would have an ice bath. Some people would have a massa- I do love a massage, but so- some people would do all these other things. I will immerse myself in an episode of The Real Housewives, and somehow the chaos in their life makes mine pale into insignificance, and it calms my mind. So on a superficial level, I love everything Bravo, and in fact, we had Andy Cohen on the show a couple of weeks ago. And for those who don't know, Andy Cohen is the sort of chief head honcho of Bravo Television. He is, um, responsible for all of The Real Housewives. He does all of the reunion shows. He is, um, has a show called Watch What Happens Live.
17. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
18. DWDenise Welch
  And, you know, um, and he gets together all the mega stars in the world, like Jennifer Lawrence and Julia Roberts, everything, who are all Housewives obsessed. And, and he came on the show. You could not have got... You could have got the biggest A-list director in the world, and I would've not been happier than when Andy Cohen was on. And I, it, it was so exciting to me, and he was everything I want-
19. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
20. DWDenise Welch
  ... I want, I wanted him to be. Um, but there is something about, there's part of me that is... Well, I'm hypocritical about loads of things. I openly, I openly admit-
21. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
22. DWDenise Welch
  ... I'm a hypocrite about loads of things, but I'm a, I don't like bitchy, aggressive women, like I've said, right? And you can't get a bigger bunch of bitchy, you know, sometimes aggressive w- w- women. Um, many just forthright. They're all trying to live the life of multimillionaires, and often we know that they're probably in debt as much as anybody else, just on a much bigger level, trying to keep up these lifestyles. They are all for conflict. You sign the contract, it's, "No, don't just say it privately to Alex. Say exactly what you think." That's how you remain a housewife, and that's how you get the books and how you be on these shows. And there's something about that that calms my head down It's, it's trite. It's not important to my life. I- it's mindless entertainment. And again, I'm not... I love these women. I've, I've, I, I've known some of them now. I know the cast of Vanderpump Rules, and I, I love... I've- I'm so obsessed with Bravo Television, and I have Bravo friends. Um, but the whole thing of reality television, and especially the Housewives, is just that it's polar opposite about how I live my life. And seeing... An- another thing, talking about the sensitivity and about being upset because the woman at the supermarket said, you know, "You pushed in in front of me," how they live their lives, having such conflict, and then they move on. That's their phrase. They move on. So it's kind of like, I feel like I'm learning a bit about how they move on from this conflict, because I can't do that. And so it's my... If I feel overwhelmed, and I get... The thing about ADHD for me which has made me understand it more, is my being overwhelmed by minutiae. So big things like a health problem in the family, and I'm talking about health problem in the wider family of my in-laws and, and, and stuff. Lincoln isn't great with health an- things. I am very good with, "I will deal with it. I will call the hospitals. I will make sure everything is sorted." It's a big, serious problem, but I am gonna deal with that, and it doesn't phase me at all. Even my own health, physical health, I'm not phased by it. I worry about mental health. I'm not phased by physical health, so far. Um, so there are big things that I can deal with quite a lot, but minutiae of just diary overwhelmingness, keeping everybody happy, I can't pull out of that because of that. How am I gonna get from the... Why have I taken on all these jobs? And that's when the two dishes on the side of the, of the draining board will become, like, a massive, great big thing to me. How do people... This is what I get like. How do people have no clutter-
23. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
24. DWDenise Welch
  ... in their house? How do they have it, Lincoln? How do they have no clutter? I am a tidy person trapped in the body of someone who's untidy, and I don't know why, 'cause that storage place downstairs was empty, and now it's full of stuff. Why is it full of stuff? And he goes, "Oh, my God. Calm down." Now, that would always preempt a depression episode, when I started to spiral with minutiae. So things like being away and remembering that I'd left washing in the... The normal me doesn't give a monkey's if it's there for four days. But when I start and everything else overwhelms me, and what I will do is I will go upstairs, and I'll get my Heyu app that I watch everything on, and I will put on that episode, and that to me is my medi- meditation.
25. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
26. DWDenise Welch
  I mean-
27. APAlex Partridge
  [clears throat]
28. DWDenise Welch
  ... it's probably ridiculous, but it just is how I deal with stuff.
29. APAlex Partridge
  I think there's something about engaging in a small amount of drama or e- sometimes a lot of drama, that is, gives us a little bit of dopamine that can be very soothing for the ADHD mind. I saw a quote the other day. It said, "I don't clean because my home is a mess. I clean because my mind is a mess."
30. DWDenise Welch
  Mm.
2:02:32 – 2:07:27
The ADHD Agony aunt segment (The washing machine of woes)
1. DWDenise Welch
  Yes.
2. APAlex Partridge
  I wanna quickly do the ADHD Agony Aunt section-
3. DWDenise Welch
  Yes. Okay
4. APAlex Partridge
  ... which is, as I said, my item is a washing machine, 'cause I always leave my laundry in the machine. Uh, but I am better now.
5. DWDenise Welch
  Does that drive your partner mad?
6. APAlex Partridge
  Uh, well, she's... I w- don't wanna speak on her be- but she's just as bad really. Like, we laugh a lot at the smell of damp.
7. DWDenise Welch
  Damp washing that-
8. APAlex Partridge
  Yeah
9. DWDenise Welch
  ... pervades your home. Yeah
10. APAlex Partridge
  Yeah.
11. DWDenise Welch
  Get it.
12. APAlex Partridge
  Time and time again, it's like, "Oh, shit, we've forgotten the machine again."
13. DWDenise Welch
  [laughs]
14. APAlex Partridge
  And I'm 36. I've accepted that, um, I'm never gonna get that much better. [laughs]
15. DWDenise Welch
  [laughs]
16. APAlex Partridge
  Although I have started u-
17. DWDenise Welch
  You're never gonna take it out. [laughs]
18. APAlex Partridge
  Although I have to say, Denise, I've started using the Tiimo app, which is the sponsor of the show, and I've got a bit better at remembering the washing machine.
19. DWDenise Welch
  Oh, okay.
20. APAlex Partridge
  This week, in the washing machine of woes, so someone on the Instagram community, in the ADHD Chatter community, is asking, "I'm currently going through a divorce, and I'm a total wreck. I have ADHD and have mental health issues in general, and it all feels too much. Do you have any advice on getting through something so messy and traumatic?"
21. DWDenise Welch
  Well, I, I guess I tick all of those boxes. Just don't do what I did. [laughs]
22. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
23. DWDenise Welch
  That would be my best advice. Um, don't, you know, don't, don't go to the dark side. But that's, that's a lot. I think the difference, you know, um, we talk about the negative side of social media a lot. I think one of the benefits now is that when I was poorly, going through those things, with, I know now, probably ADHD and depression, I only had my close family to turn to. Thank God they were enough. But for maybe this lady, maybe the, she doesn't have such a close family network. The difference is that you could now Google depression groups in Coventry, women going through divorce Coventry, and you would find some kind of support group that, that is, is ongoing. I think that with this type of thing, it is very important to talk to people who understand what you're going through. The fact that she's reaching out might mean that she, as I say, she doesn't have an incredibly close family network, or maybe they don't live geographically near her or something like that. And I think that I used to be really against, not against, I was frightened of, the words support group, group therapy, anything like that. I was really frightened of it. But actually, it's just a bunch of people going through the same-
24. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
25. DWDenise Welch
  ... things, and I think that it's not something that she should put to one side. You know, I mean, all of those three things are different. Divorce, you know, mental health issues, and neurodiversity are not necessarily all, all the same, but it's, but it's a lot. Um, again, I just think it's about, that is about reaching, reaching out to people and admitting that you're struggling, and that not trying to, um, not trying to go through things on, on your own. And to talk, you know, the, it's, it's all the old thing, 'cause we obviously we don't know anything more about her personal circumstances than, than, than what she, you know, than, than what she, what she, what she says there. So you don't know if she's on medication, or maybe that's something that perhaps she could look into as a little bridge. Like I said earlier in the talk, I am very pro-antidepressant medication if it is prescribed for the right reason. And, um, and so I wouldn't be saying, "Oh, you're getting a divorce. Go for antidepressant medication." But maybe if she's not on medication for the other things, maybe if that was under control, she would be able to at least see her, you know, see the divorce through and functioning better in that, um, in that respect. It's good that she's sent it in to... So does she send it into here, so she listens to this podcast, or is it on Instagram that she... She, she re-
26. APAlex Partridge
  So, so yeah, she listens to the podcast, and she would've sent it into the Instagram DMs.
27. DWDenise Welch
  Yeah. Yeah. So she's, you know, she knows what she's got, and she's sort of dealing with it. But I just think it's, um, it's very important to surround yourself with people going through a similar thing.
28. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
29. DWDenise Welch
  And even if it's just one of those things, even if it's an ADHD group or, or a depression group, getting help for one of those things, the ripple effect will, that it will make things easier. Divorce is never fun. That's why we're getting divorced, you know? I'm very lucky that we've come out the other side, and we've managed to salvage an incredible friend- friendship, but I'm, I'm also would never judge anybody who, who, who d- doesn't-
30. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
2:07:27 – 2:15:31
Advice for someone who doesn’t ‘feel enough’
1. APAlex Partridge
  What advice would you give to someone who just doesn't feel enough and feels like they will never be enough because of this condition called ADHD that they think at this particular moment is plaguing them?
2. DWDenise Welch
  It would be interesting to know why you or fictitious person thinks that you're not enough when you're, you know, it's a bit like, oh, what have you, what have you got to be depressed about? But you have got all of the superficial things, like that you're a nice-looking guy. Um, you've got a very successful podcast which you started your- All by your very self, with, with no money to do so and everything, and have built it into this brand, which is incredible. You've got a girlfriend who doesn't care that you leave your washing in the washing machine.
3. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
4. DWDenise Welch
  And you clearly are a very liked person, which is why you get such amazing guests like me want to come on your [laughs]
5. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
6. DWDenise Welch
  I'm only obvious- obviously, obviously joking. But what makes you think that you're not enough?
7. APAlex Partridge
  For me, I think it's a... I really struggle to, to s- to store my achievements in my head, in my subconscious, and I think, call it imposter syndrome, whatever you like, but I think that's a, a r- tangible mental health condition.
8. DWDenise Welch
  It is.
9. APAlex Partridge
  You know, I think I'm... I always live in the now. I'm always living in the now, and what I mean by that is things I've done in the past and m- the concept of some kind of future, they don't exist. So when I do things, achieve certain stuff, um, I don't store them in my subconscious, so I don't build up this evidence of ability. So then when I come to do something again, there's no evidence to look back on and draw on to give me confidence that I'm able to do it. Um-
10. DWDenise Welch
  Why did you, or did you... Did you say to me why, when we were talking about the medication, why you never t- why, why you... Did you try the meds-
11. APAlex Partridge
  No
12. DWDenise Welch
  ... the ADHD?
13. APAlex Partridge
  No, I personally never tried the ADHD med-
14. DWDenise Welch
  Why did you not try them?
15. APAlex Partridge
  I feel like I manage the-
16. DWDenise Welch
  But you don't.
17. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
18. DWDenise Welch
  [laughs]
19. APAlex Partridge
  I feel like I feel I manage some of the tr- negatives of ADHD through exercise and diet. I, I'm getting better at now, like, managing that aspect, the imposter syndrome, through intentionally celebrating when the wins happen.
20. DWDenise Welch
  I think because I had a bad experience, which I, which I do think is very important that I, that I t- that I talk about for the reasons that, that I said. But when I look at another couple of my friends, um, and how the, the meds have changed that being plagued by it, that's such an, a very strong word, and you use words like visceral as well. You know, it's really, really, really deeply impacted. I just wondered if it's something that maybe you should look at, seeing if it has the effect that it did on these people that, that I'm talking about, who said that they were life... You know, that it, that it's been life-saving for them, just for those very thoughts that you have, because they, they were f- they were frightened of thinking about the, the, the future, and they were worn out and beaten down by, by it. Um, I just... Is it like, because I know with a lot of people with meds, certainly with antidepressants, why I'm so pro them, is because people have always had this thing of like, "Oh, I'd never ta- Oh, I'd never take medication."
21. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
22. DWDenise Welch
  And I always say, "I've never taken a tranquilizer in my life." That's not true. I had my lenses replaced recently-
23. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
24. DWDenise Welch
  ... and they gave me a, a diazepam-
25. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
26. DWDenise Welch
  ... and I pounced on them. Um, they said, "Do you want a diaz?" I said, "Yes. [laughs] I've never had anything in 12 years. I'll have one." That's the only time I've really had a tranquilizer, 'cause I think people have got this One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest version of e- even though, you know, the, the, the, the hectares and acres-
27. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
28. DWDenise Welch
  ... that we've come forward with this subject, there is still that Cuckoo's Nest thing of people going up to Nurse Ratched for their meds, and they're making them sort of shuffling around in white gowns type of attitude to anything to do with mental health medication, you know. And I would always do that thing of I would take my meds, and then when I felt better, I'd come off, and my mum used to go mad. She said, "When you are on antibiotics, you take them till the end of the course." I always consider my medication that I do take to be like my insulin. A diabetic can't choose just to come off insulin, and to me, they, that is my insulin. So it's not saying, "Oh, you know, you'll be fine, just take the meds." It's just curious as to why you haven't, when there are still areas of it that you struggle to... Um, before you got diagnosed, what did you think you had? Or did you ever put a... Did you think you had ADHD? Did you not know about ADHD? Why was it in your 30s before you got diagnosed?
29. APAlex Partridge
  I think the reason I haven't tried medication is that, you know, there, there are challenges, but for me, I think the, the positives outweigh them, and f- the experience that I've had with, with similar medication is that it, it mutes and turns-
30. DWDenise Welch
  Right
2:15:31 – 2:22:20
Where would you be without ADHD
1. APAlex Partridge
  Where do you think you'd be without ADHD?
2. DWDenise Welch
  Probably just more ... I've, I've talked to you for two and a half hours. Now because we took a wee break, and the guys said, "Oh, we found it quite entertaining," I'm sort of all right with that. Had you not said that, I would be leaving here going, "Oh, my God. Why did you not shut the fuck up, you boring person?"
3. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
4. DWDenise Welch
  Alex is the interviewer. He asked literally one question-
5. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
6. DWDenise Welch
  ... and you've talked for two and a half hours. Sometimes I get cross with myself about that. This is, this is another interesting thing. Matty said to me recently, things I can talk about. Matty said to me recently, "Mum," and it ma- it made me laugh, 'cause you know when something's so true. He said, "Mum," I can't remember where we were. He went, "Mum, when you walk in a room, in a crowded room, it is not your responsibility for how those people feel and connect with each other. It's just not." Because I will walk in a room, and I feel, only I put this on myself, to be going, "John. Uh, Joan's here. Have you met... Joan, you've met John, haven't you? He went out with Sue. Joan and Jo- " And Matty's going, "Mum, it's not your responsibility." Or if people are just quiet, I've got to fill the silence. Now I don't mean an uncomfortable silence, where if we just all suddenly went into silence, it would be, one of us would break it, 'cause it would be uncomfortable. But I'm just talking about a general lull. I feel it's my res- even in a group of strangers, it's my responsibility to get the chat going. And when Matty said this, Lincoln roared with laughter because he said, "That is exactly what I say to your mum." Lincoln will be talking to someone, and he said he'll feel his arm being tugged. And, and I'm going, "Lincoln, thingy's here." And he'll go, "Yep, I know, darling. I was m- I was making my way over when I'd finished my conversation with Pete. I did see that Anthony was over there. But I don't need you to make that connection-
7. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
8. DWDenise Welch
  ... between me and Anthony, because I would, or maybe I wouldn't, get over there eventually." That exhausts me in my head. I get exhausted in my, in, I get exhausted with my head. My love of a nana nap is sometimes, I think, because I need, I n- I need to switch everything off rather than ... I have another thing, I have, um, uh, you know, my, my sleep thing is much better now, but, you know, sort of sleep disturbances and everything. And, um, I definitely would like to sleep more, and I think if my brain was less, was less, less engaged-
9. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
10. DWDenise Welch
  ... um, I, I would, I would definitely sle- sleep more. But I think sometimes I get an overwhelming desire to, to nana nap, but I do think it's more to switch, to switch my, switch my brain off. I feel I've got a responsibility to things that I have absolutely nothing to fucking do with.
11. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
12. DWDenise Welch
  Why, why do I feel a responsibility? Um, if somebody says... I'm trying to think of an example that I thought of myself the other day. Somebody that I barely knew said, um, "Oh, we, we're gonna start looking at, we're gonna start looking at places," I don't know. I'm making this up, but it was something like this. "We're gonna start looking at places in the Cotswolds." I'll be going, "Are you?" And they don't need my help.
13. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
14. DWDenise Welch
  They don't need my help.
15. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
16. DWDenise Welch
  I'm not an estate agent. I don't know the Cotswolds. Why am I, why am I getting invo- "Lincoln, what are you doing?" "Oh, well, it's just Sue said," like, "Well, why do you care about Sue's fucking Cotswolds house? She's not even gonna invite you-
17. APAlex Partridge
  Mm. Well, it's don't, really
18. DWDenise Welch
  ... to the house."
19. APAlex Partridge
  It's, it's, it's n-
20. DWDenise Welch
  She, it's got nothing to do with you-
21. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
22. DWDenise Welch
  ... Sue's house. "Oh, okay, I just," you know. "Well, darling, did she ask you to look for the house?" "No."
23. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
24. DWDenise Welch
  Why am I exerting energy and time that I don't have? Like I have the time-
25. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
26. DWDenise Welch
  ... to find Sue a house in the Cotswolds. I don't, and she's never asked me to. She doesn't care about it. And I, I wear myself out with that sort of thing of, thing of thinking. Um, yeah, that
27. APAlex Partridge
  Yeah. Well, it's the perfect description, I think, of how it can present ADHD, is that, you know, internal, internal chaos. Not always chaos. It's that internal million thoughts happening at, at a single time, and sometimes you have control over it, a lot of the time you don't, and y- exhausting is the word. It-
28. DWDenise Welch
  I also can't... And I don't know whether it's, it, it's when you get to my age as well, is it, is it, is it a memory thing? But I, I remember that it's kind of always happened. So I'll be talking to you, and I can, and I say, "Oh, someone told me this the other day." And I remember word for word the conversation of this thing with this person. Can I remember who told me it? No. I then start getting anxiety about the fact that I can't remember, so I have to start going through my photos, but that might be just a thing, especially when you get older, and you worry about memory things and everything. But I remember for as long as I can remember, I can pinpoint the conversation, but I have no idea, and it might be yesterday.
29. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
30. DWDenise Welch
  And the thing about the interrupting as well, which I know I do, and admittedly sometimes it's just like, "Oh, my God. That person's so boring. I have to interrupt." But mostly I think it's because I have so much to say, and if I don't say it, I will completely forget the thread. And then I start getting anxious about forgetting the thread. I'm exhausting myself. [laughs]
2:22:20 – 2:26:07
A letter from the previous guest (3 rules to live by)
1. APAlex Partridge
  Denise, we've got a closing tradition on the podcast where the previous guest has written three rules to live by. They've put it in an envelope, and they posted it in that post office.
2. DWDenise Welch
  Oh.
3. APAlex Partridge
  And I'm going to deliver the letter to you, and if you could open it and read it.
4. DWDenise Welch
  This is from the last person who was on this couch?
5. APAlex Partridge
  That's right.
6. DWDenise Welch
  Okay. So they don't know it's me. It's just to the next guest.
7. APAlex Partridge
  Exactly.
8. DWDenise Welch
  Right. Three rules to live by. One, trust your gut instinct always. Have courage to be ki- have courage and be kind. Right? You only regret the things you didn't do. Um, trust your gut instinct, I absolutely 100% agree with that. All the major decisions in my life, my head has said, "You are crazy," but in there you know it's right. When I've gone against it, it's a disaster.
9. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
10. DWDenise Welch
  So that, I, absolutely the thing. Um, be kind. The thing is, have courage and be kind, I think that you can't make yourself have those. You're either kind or you're not.
11. APAlex Partridge
  Naturally. Yeah, I suppose you can, you can pretend, but then you're manipulative.
12. DWDenise Welch
  You can pretend, but I remember... Oh, God, I'm supposed to be at the end of the interview, and I'm off again. I remember being on holiday in Jamaica-
13. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
14. DWDenise Welch
  ... a few years ago. Everyone's going [snores] . I remember being... Just bear with me. Just humor me.
15. APAlex Partridge
  No, good. Good.
16. DWDenise Welch
  I remember years ago, and I'm not religious, okay? I'm, I, I, I don't believe in, in the God as, as we know the God, that's, and, and I'm c- and I'm fine with that, but I respect everybody else's faith and religion and, and envy it a bit, to be honest, if I, if, if I'm honest. Anyway, I, I was, I was by the pool, and there was a lady, and she was struggling, uh, to get out of the pool, and I went to help her out. And she then formed a conversation with me, and we were chatting and chatting and chatting. And eventually we got to talking about religion, which you wouldn't normally do, and I said, "Well, I, I accept everyone's religions, you know?" I said, "I'm t- I, I'm an atheist. I normally..." And I've never seen anybody look so shocked, and this is the words she said to me. "But why are you so nice if you don't believe in God?" And I thought, "Wow." What she meant was she's not naturally... She's doing it all for what might happen up there-
17. APAlex Partridge
  Mm
18. DWDenise Welch
  ... rather than it coming naturally to her. She couldn't understand why I was a nice person, but I wasn't doing it because I was frightened of not going to heaven and seeing all the people that I didn't want to see in real life, let alone in heaven.
19. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
20. DWDenise Welch
  The thought of the white light and everybody I know being there going, "I don't want to fucking see you."
21. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
22. DWDenise Welch
  "Stay away." But, um, that was interesting. So, and have courage and, and, and be, be kind. Yeah, if you can go one way or the other, always go the, the, the, the kind thing. Um, you only regret the things you didn't do. I have to disagree there, and we've covered it in the podcast, because I do regret. I do regret some of the decisions I made in drink, but then again... But I do regret them. I wish I could redo them. Um, but I also absolutely understand you only regret the, the, you know, the thing, the things you didn't do. That's why I try to do as much as, I try to do as much as, um, I try to do as much as possible.
23. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
24. DWDenise Welch
  And that's why I make those, those adrenaline rush decisions because then when they go well, I'd regret it if I'd, if, if I'd, if I didn't do them.
25. APAlex Partridge
  Denise, this has been fantastic.
26. DWDenise Welch
  Thank you.
27. APAlex Partridge
  Thank you so much.
28. DWDenise Welch
  Thank you. Thank you for having me. I've thoroughly enjoyed it. [upbeat music]
2:26:07 – 2:29:53
Behind the scenes clips & signing the ‘out of the box’ canvas
1. APAlex Partridge
  What's the most impulsive thing you've ever done?
2. DWDenise Welch
  What's the most impulsive thing I've ever done? From a physical point of view, it's doing a bungee jump on a TV show that I did last year. When if you'd asked me if I would go for any money in the world, as someone with vertigo and terrified of heights, would I do it?
3. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
4. DWDenise Welch
  So from a physically thing, it would be that, um, go home with my husband after meeting him five minutes before in a nightclub at 6:00 o'clock in the morning. But as it turned out, it's ended up to be a wonderful marriage. But in my mind, my story was that we'd met each other and our eyes met across a crowded floor.
5. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
6. DWDenise Welch
  In fact, someone said, "No, there was the only two of you left. There was no one else to get off with."
7. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
8. DWDenise Welch
  So that was quite impulsive.
9. APAlex Partridge
  Mm.
10. DWDenise Welch
  And probably every theater job I've ever accepted and then shat my pants.
11. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs] What about how many domains do you own?
12. DWDenise Welch
  What does that mean?
13. APAlex Partridge
  Like, um, www dots.
14. DWDenise Welch
  Oh, I don't think I own any, do I?
15. APAlex Partridge
  Oh, I-
16. DWDenise Welch
  You can't... That's like you saying to me ..." You saying anything about the internet or, or anything like that.
17. APAlex Partridge
  You s- I mean, do you, do you have many like h- pa- uh, business ideas, pa- uh, hobbies that you start and lose interest in?
18. DWDenise Welch
  I always have the ideas and I lose interest in within about half an hour.
19. APAlex Partridge
  Half an hour? That is quick.
20. DWDenise Welch
  Oh, actually Lincoln did get a domain for me, if that's what you call it.
21. APAlex Partridge
  Yeah, like a website.
22. DWDenise Welch
  And here I'll be going, "Look at you talking about domains."
23. APAlex Partridge
  [laughs]
24. DWDenise Welch
  I did have an idea. I did have an idea, but I don't wanna say it because then someone'll have the idea. So I do own a d- domain. I do own a domain for something, but I can't tell you what it is.
25. APAlex Partridge
  Okay, well-
26. DWDenise Welch
  Because then someone's gonna steal my idea.
27. APAlex Partridge
  Yeah.
28. DWDenise Welch
  Now I've gone back into-
29. APAlex Partridge
  You're losing-
30. DWDenise Welch
  ... realizing that I'd forgotten about the domain

Episode duration: 2:29:53

In the uListen app, the transcript lights up word by word as you listen. Get uListen

Transcript of episode vQpRKfiaA8g

Get more out of YouTube videos.

Read along on your phone, search it beside the video, or ask your favorite AI app what was said.

iOS

Trailer

Dedication

A message from our sponsor: Tiimo

Denise’s ADHD item reveal

Early memories of feeling different

When was your ADHD diagnosis

Denise’s ADHD medication experience

How did your perspective on ADHD change post diagnosis?

Is there a link between acting and ADHD

How would ADHD have been viewed by your parents

How did you feel in your 40s?

Why is the invisible disease of "mental health" difficult for others to understand

The link between being neurodivergent and loneliness

What has appearing on Loose Women taught you about men

What has Loose Women taught you about women

A stalker

Matty

Being a mother, the good and the bad

The ‘worst’ side of Denise that the public don’t see

RSD + justice sensitivity

Never having a daughter

Denise’s ADHD item explanation

The ADHD Agony aunt segment (The washing machine of woes)

Advice for someone who doesn’t ‘feel enough’

Where would you be without ADHD

A letter from the previous guest (3 rules to live by)

Behind the scenes clips & signing the ‘out of the box’ canvas

Get more out of YouTube videos.