Founder of World’s No.1 ADHD Coaching company: The real reason ADHD women are still struggling

1. 0:00 – 1:57

   Intro

   1. SPShanna Pearson0:00

      Everyone with ADHD, regardless of their personality, we all have a very difficult time compartmentalizing. When you have that experience, you're attuned to everything. If you're born with a brain that can't compartmentalize very well and you've also grown up being completely on the outside of the vast majority of everyone around you, you will end up hypersensitive [laughs] to all things that are happening around you, and you'll take it personally. Shanna Pearson founded the largest ADHD coaching facility in the world. With over 26 years experience in ADHD coaching- She's helped more than 22,000 people. And overseen over half a million coaching sessions in her glittering career. Why can't you just? That's what we've been hearing our whole life. It's like, really, why can't you just? You know, when you're a kid, you hear that from your parents. When you're a student, you hear it from your teachers. When you're an adult, you hear it from your partner. It's like this nonstop message, "Why can't you just?" You start to internalize it, it's like, "Well, why can't I just?" We're so disconnected from ourselves.

   2. APAlex Partridge0:55

      How do you think someone can become more connected to their self, their inner child? What exercises can someone do to try and minimize that gap between their true self and their masked self?

   3. SPShanna Pearson1:04

      I think for people who have ADHD specifically, we have to do a lot of things very intentionally.

   4. APAlex Partridge1:10

      Quick one before I get distracted. I just wanted to say a very brief thank you to all of my listeners. Thank you for tuning in, and thank you for subscribing and following the podcast. It really, really helps. At ADHD Chatter, my mission is to ask the world-leading experts the hard questions to give you access to the most pioneering advice the world has to offer, and with an aim to help you feel seen. Following and subscribing helps me on my mission to book these incredibly insightful guests and to give you these incredibly insightful interviews. Remember, you're not broken, just different, and you have always been enough. [upbeat music] Shanna, thank you so much for joining us.

   5. SPShanna Pearson1:49

      It's great to be here. I'm excited.

   6. APAlex Partridge1:52

      22,000 people you've coached with ADHD.

2. 1:57 – 9:04

   Shanna’s mission

   1. APAlex Partridge1:57

      Where did it all start? What's your mission within the world of ADHD?

   2. SPShanna Pearson2:01

      My mission in the world of ADHD is to honestly do and, and spread around as much as possible what actually works for people who have ADHD. And I feel like everything I've been doing in this field has, has been very much like I won't do what won't work. Like I, I, I don't even wanna do big group, like, huge group programs, 'cause everybody wants, wants us to, you know, "Can you just like..." You know, "Can we just do, like, 100 people at a time?" And, and, and then we can... It's much more, you know-

   3. APAlex Partridge2:37

      Mm-hmm

   4. SPShanna Pearson2:37

      ... leveraged, and you can scale, and all of that, and I won't do it. Because I know 100% that every person with ADHD is completely different than the next person, you know? And they all need, like, hand- a little bit of hand-holding, even if you're a super high achiever and incredibly successful. Um, we just, it's just very individualized, so I just do what works. That's my mission. And then with the book that I just wrote, I, I put a, I put so many of our tools in that book because, um, I just want everyone to have this. That's my, that's, that's my goal, is we have things that work.

   5. APAlex Partridge3:12

      Mm.

   6. SPShanna Pearson3:12

      This is what it is. Please use it.

   7. APAlex Partridge3:15

      I share a lot of that mission with you, and I think when you say what works for people with ADHD, like, that implies, right, that there's some challenges that you need to find things that work for. Like, out of the people that you've coached, what, what do you think, what do you see those common challenges being?

   8. SPShanna Pearson3:29

      It's interesting because if I look at... We have a contact form on our website, and the contact form says, you know, "What are your top three challenges?" 'Cause we wanna know each person-

   9. APAlex Partridge3:38

      Mm

   10. SPShanna Pearson3:38

       ... and that's a really good way to know somebody, is what are you struggling with and what are your goals? But the challenges that people write before they've ever started are very surface. So they need help with, you know, time management and organization. Um, a lot of people will be like, um, you know, procrastination, which, which seems like it's part of time management but isn't really. And, you know, it's very surface. That's what they come for. What really causes people to, to make the changes that they need to make is, is quite different than that. Because I could teach you, like, the most amazing time management tools in the world, and you'll never, ever use them if you don't think you can use them, if you don't think it's gonna work for you, and if you don't feel like-

   11. APAlex Partridge4:25

       Mm-hmm

   12. SPShanna Pearson4:25

       ... using them. If you're just like, "I don't wanna do this today." [laughs] You know, "I'm not doing that." So a lot of, a lot of the challenges that people really come to us f- with is, are more about, you know, mood management and self-esteem, believe it or not.

   13. APAlex Partridge4:38

       It's the emotional side of it, right, as well? Because you said there procrastination isn't just time management, and I, that's so true. I think a lot of people who don't get ADHD would say, "Oh, you procrastinate, you just can't-

   14. SPShanna Pearson4:48

       Yeah

   15. APAlex Partridge4:48

       ... manage your time." But there's an emotional side to it, right? There's, like, perfectionism. There's fear of failure. Like, there's a huge emotional element as to why somebody might not start a task.

   16. SPShanna Pearson4:58

       100%. I think it's all emotional. I think, I think we're very, we're very good at starting lots of tasks when we feel like doing them. [laughs] Like-

   17. APAlex Partridge5:06

       Yes. [laughs]

   18. SPShanna Pearson5:06

       ... like, that's where the impulsivity comes from and you just-

   19. APAlex Partridge5:08

       3:00 AM in the morning

   20. SPShanna Pearson5:08

       ... jump into things, and you don't stop-

   21. APAlex Partridge5:10

       Yeah. [laughs]

   22. SPShanna Pearson5:10

       ... and it's like, "I have to do that right now," and you do it, right? So it's, it's, it's really not that-

   23. APAlex Partridge5:15

       Mm

   24. SPShanna Pearson5:15

       ... we don't know how to get started on things. We're very good at that. It's, it's we're held back by, um, s- o- often it's fear, but it all stems in overwhelm.

   25. APAlex Partridge5:24

       Mm.

   26. SPShanna Pearson5:25

       And a lot of times if, especially if we're, if, if whatever we were procrastinating on has any kind of, you know, emotion around it or, or heaviness or, you know, just a weight, we're, we're like, "Oh my God, this is such a big deal."

   27. APAlex Partridge5:37

       Mm.

   28. SPShanna Pearson5:38

       And then you're spinning in your head for months, honestly. [laughs] Like, and just, like, you don't know how to start. You know exactly what you need to do, but you don't know how to go about doing it.

   29. APAlex Partridge5:49

       Well, starting something, doing something, putting your foot forward, opening any doors exposes you to criticism, right? Like, ex- exposes you to the risk of letting someone down if it isn't done to a perfect standard. I think-

   30. SPShanna Pearson6:02

       Right
3. 9:04 – 11:42

   How to define ADHD

   1. APAlex Partridge9:04

      how would you describe, define ADHD?

   2. SPShanna Pearson9:07

      Wow. ADHD is, um, ADHD is... So first of all, I wanna go back to what you just said about the doctors because it blows my mind-

   3. APAlex Partridge9:16

      Mm

   4. SPShanna Pearson9:16

      ... how, how little the medical community still knows and understands about ADHD even though they know so much. The medical community is amazing [laughs] and they do a lot of, you know, incredible work, but there's, they just don't, they just don't know what, you know, about this, about this particular, you know, aspect of, of, of experience. ADHD to me is an experience.

   5. APAlex Partridge9:41

      Mm.

   6. SPShanna Pearson9:42

      It's not a, a disorder [laughs] or a disability, a learning disability. It's, it's an experience, and it's a way of living, um, where your, your, your mind is almost... I mean, everyone's mind is limitless, but we are very attuned to that. We're constantly in nonstop limitless mode, whether it's internal or external. We're just, we're just living in a, on a slightly different frequency-

   7. APAlex Partridge10:07

      Mm

   8. SPShanna Pearson10:07

      ... I call it, you know, as, as everyone else, where it's like all doors open all the time. And I don't think any doctor that I've ever spoken to, although you probably have, um, has been able to understand that experience because that experience affects everything in your life.

   9. APAlex Partridge10:26

      Mm.

   10. SPShanna Pearson10:27

       Everything, like your work, your family, [laughs] your, your health, everything. And so that's your life is, you know, every door wide open. [laughs] Like, what are you gonna do?

   11. APAlex Partridge10:37

       Yeah.

   12. SPShanna Pearson10:37

       How do you start on anything when it's all every, when everything is, is, is right there?

   13. APAlex Partridge10:42

       It feels like ADHD is, is, in a, in a nutshell, it's a heightened sensitivity to your surroundings, and that can, that can expose you to, to vulnerabilities around criticism. You pick up on people's tone of voice, their mannerisms. I think it makes you a great judge of character. It gives you a certain heightened intuition that makes you able to spot nastiness in someone, like someone's true intentions before-

   14. SPShanna Pearson11:06

       Yeah

   15. APAlex Partridge11:06

       ... other people see it. But on the flip side of that, that also makes you incredibly vulnerable and able to, to, to detect shifts in mood, you know? And that can really swing your mood on a day-to-day basis and expose you to comments like, "Why are you so Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde?" When in fact, you've just-

   16. SPShanna Pearson11:24

       Mm

   17. APAlex Partridge11:24

       ... sensed something, a slight heavier footstep or a tone of voice, and suddenly you think that person hates you-

   18. SPShanna Pearson11:29

       Right

   19. APAlex Partridge11:30

       ... or they're mad at you. It's like-

   20. SPShanna Pearson11:30

       Or you did something wrong.

   21. APAlex Partridge11:32

       Exactly.

   22. SPShanna Pearson11:32

       Yeah.

   23. APAlex Partridge11:33

       And w- that experience of heightened sensitivity, that almost being in, like, a constant fight or flight mode, yes, it's exhausting.

4. 11:42 – 15:53

   Nature vs Nurture

   1. APAlex Partridge11:43

      But do you think that's nature? Do you think that's a consequence of what we were exposed to, or do you think that's a, a, a genetic link?

   2. SPShanna Pearson11:51

      I think it's both. I really do. I think, I think when, when, um... I believe that everyone with ADHD, regardless of their personality, we all have a very difficult time compartmentalizing.And so that's like with the all, you know, everything, it's, it's the experience of everything all the time, all at once, yesterday.

   3. APAlex Partridge12:14

      Mm.

   4. SPShanna Pearson12:14

      Right? And so it's just when you, when you have that experience, you, you're s- you're, you're attuned to everything. You've also grown up [laughs] different and with a brain that's wired differently than everyone else's. And when you were small, whether you knew you had ADHD or not, you were not like everyone else. And I know that everyone's like, "Well, everyone's different, and all children are different, and we're all, you know, unique individuals." But the fact is, is that if you look at a classroom of kids, the vast majority of them really are quite the same [laughs] in terms of being kids, even though they all have, you know, different, you know, faces and, and personalities, but they're all quite similar in how they behave. And then there's the ones that just aren't. They're outside of it. And so if you're born with a brain that can't compartmentalize very well, and you've also grown up being completely on the outside of the vast majority of everyone around you, you will end up hypersensitive [laughs] to, you know, to all things that are happening around you, and you'll take it personally because of, because-

   5. APAlex Partridge13:24

      Mm

   6. SPShanna Pearson13:25

      ... that's not unusual. Of course you're gonna take it personally. Look at what you experienced for, you know, your formative years.

   7. APAlex Partridge13:31

      And it's, we learn, don't we, from a young age, having, if we're exposed to lots of comments like, "Why are you so weird? Stop fidgeting. Why can't you just be normal? Stop being lazy." Like, we learn to, to, to change who we are to fit in. It, it almost feels like the path of least resistance if we just adapt ourselves slightly at first-

   8. SPShanna Pearson13:48

      Mm-hmm

   9. APAlex Partridge13:48

      ... to fit in, and we realize that gives us less exposure to negativity, less criticisms. And that can escalate, right, compound over a whole childhood to ul- ultimately create an adult who has-

   10. SPShanna Pearson13:59

       Yeah

   11. APAlex Partridge13:59

       ... masked so hard for so long, has solved the problem of feeling weird so well [laughs] -

   12. SPShanna Pearson14:03

       Yeah

   13. APAlex Partridge14:04

       ... um, that they ultimately don't know who they are.

   14. SPShanna Pearson14:06

       Yes. And so you're just trying to, um, a big part, first of all, I think the opening chapter in my book is called Why Can't You Just?

   15. APAlex Partridge14:13

       Mm.

   16. SPShanna Pearson14:14

       'Cause that's, that's what we've been hearing our, our whole life. It's like, really, why can't you just? You know, when you're a kid, you hear that from your parents. When you're, um, when you're a student, you hear it from your teachers. When you're an adult, you hear it from your partner. Like, it's like this nonstop message, why can't you just? And you're-

   17. APAlex Partridge14:32

       Mm

   18. SPShanna Pearson14:32

       ... and then you start to internalize it, and it's like, well, why can't I just, right? So then you've been trying so hard to, to be like everyone else, if that's even a thing anymore.

   19. APAlex Partridge14:43

       Mm.

   20. SPShanna Pearson14:43

       And not only is it exhausting, [laughs] but, 'cause it's not who you really are-

   21. APAlex Partridge14:49

       Mm

   22. SPShanna Pearson14:49

       ... it's like constantly trying to, trying to, like, you know, fit a square peg into a round hole.

   23. APAlex Partridge14:54

       Sure. Mm.

   24. SPShanna Pearson14:54

       That is difficult and, and impossible. But it's, um, we're so disconnected from, from ourselves, and it's for exactly, you know, what you're saying is 'cause you've been trying to, you've been trying to fit in.

   25. APAlex Partridge15:10

       Mm.

   26. SPShanna Pearson15:10

       You've been trying to get that square peg into that round hole. And there's a whole, I feel like a lot of our clients are so out of touch. They come, they're so out of touch with their goals, like real goals. I don't mean like the get everything checked off the to-do list goals. I mean, like, what's meaningful for you goals. Now that they've already, you know, they've chosen their career-

   27. APAlex Partridge15:31

       Mm

   28. SPShanna Pearson15:31

       ... and they're doing this thing, what are their, what do they actually want? And they don't know. And you can't know [laughs] what you want if you don't, if you're not connected to yourself.

   29. APAlex Partridge15:43

       How do you think someone can become more connected to their self, their inner child? Like, what, what, what exercises can someone do to try and minimize that gap between their true self and their

5. 15:53 – 18:35

   How to connect with your inner child

   1. APAlex Partridge15:53

      masked self?

   2. SPShanna Pearson15:54

      I think for people who have ADHD specifically, I, I, we have to do a lot of things very intentionally. So, I mean, the question that you're asking, I, I feel like 90% of people who would be asked that question would be like, "Well, there's this great, you know, meditation." It's like, and becoming one, and like, you know, be- Do you meditate?

   3. APAlex Partridge16:14

      I've tried. Like, it's so boring.

   4. SPShanna Pearson16:16

      Oh my gosh.

   5. APAlex Partridge16:16

      I can't, I can't just focus on nothing.

   6. SPShanna Pearson16:18

      Right.

   7. APAlex Partridge16:19

      My mind, so I lie down, and I start thinking-

   8. SPShanna Pearson16:20

      What about your breath? [laughs]

   9. APAlex Partridge16:21

      My breath?

   10. SPShanna Pearson16:22

       Focusing on your breath. I can't do it either.

   11. APAlex Partridge16:23

       My mind wanders. I can't, [laughs] it's those-

   12. SPShanna Pearson16:25

       Yeah

   13. APAlex Partridge16:25

       ... h- highly caffeinated squirrels come back, and I'm thinking about-

   14. SPShanna Pearson16:28

       Right

   15. APAlex Partridge16:28

       ... a million different things.

   16. SPShanna Pearson16:29

       Right.

   17. APAlex Partridge16:29

       Um, yeah, I can't meditate. It's really, really hard-

   18. SPShanna Pearson16:31

       I can't either

   19. APAlex Partridge16:31

       ... for people with ADHD.

   20. SPShanna Pearson16:32

       I, when I was diagnosed, I went to India, and, and I'm like, "I'm gonna do this, okay? This is my goal." [laughs]

   21. APAlex Partridge16:38

       [laughs]

   22. SPShanna Pearson16:38

       "I'm gonna learn to quiet my mind." And so I literally went, 'cause I was, like, a backpacker, and I just traveled-

   23. APAlex Partridge16:43

       Mm

   24. SPShanna Pearson16:43

       ... and I never, I never had a job for very long, so [laughs] I was always, like, in between. And so I would take whatever savings I had from the last job and, and go somewhere. And I was in India, learning, trying to learn how to meditate-

   25. APAlex Partridge16:55

       Mm

   26. SPShanna Pearson16:55

       ... and quiet my mind and connect with myself, and it was such a, I, I, it was, I did so poorly [laughs] in that. And I was even with, uh, the Dalai Lama-

   27. APAlex Partridge17:04

       Oh, wow

   28. SPShanna Pearson17:05

       ... which was really cool-

   29. APAlex Partridge17:06

       Yeah

   30. SPShanna Pearson17:06

       ... and such a great experience, except that I didn't really get the full experience because I wasn't-
6. 18:35 – 20:28

   What is ‘normal’?

   1. APAlex Partridge18:35

      but what is normal? Like, [laughs] if you were to describe someone who is neurotypical, how would you even start?

   2. SPShanna Pearson18:42

      If I were to s- describe somebody who's typical?

   3. APAlex Partridge18:45

      Mm.

   4. SPShanna Pearson18:46

      Well, a typical ... How, how would you describe somebody who's typical? Everyone's ... There is no typical.

   5. APAlex Partridge18:52

      It's a hard question, right? Because we, we, we assign a lot of descriptors to ADHD, so neurodivergence, but then we also use the word neurotypical, and I've always struggled to actually define what that means. Like, is, is normal a myth? Is there no such thing as normal?

   6. SPShanna Pearson19:05

      I don't believe in, I don't believe there's any such thing. I just think we're, I think we have to st- can we stop, like, labeling-

   7. APAlex Partridge19:11

      Mm

   8. SPShanna Pearson19:11

      ... every single thing? It's like we're just humans. [laughs]

   9. APAlex Partridge19:15

      Yeah.

   10. SPShanna Pearson19:15

       We're just humans trying to do our best. And, and our, our group of people are, I think, oh my gosh, so lucky in some ways that we have this nonstop brain that's open to everything all the time-

   11. APAlex Partridge19:31

       Mm

   12. SPShanna Pearson19:31

       ... and it's like, you know, our, all of it is, is happening all at the same time, which means that our thoughts are really, really are, could be quite out of the box. You know? We're able to see so many different angles to so many different things all at once, which is amazing, and it's incredibly difficult, which makes it not lucky, right?

   13. APAlex Partridge19:51

       Mm.

   14. SPShanna Pearson19:51

       But it's really, this is, this is how we're wired, but we don't have to put so much, um ... I think if we put less heaviness on it and just focused on what to do about it, I think a lot of us would feel a lot better.

   15. APAlex Partridge20:09

       It is a bit heartbreaking, though, because a lot of the guests that I speak to and, and the women I meet, uh, at events, like, they, they, they know that they're different. They feel different. Um, and a lot of those differences are brilliant.

   16. SPShanna Pearson20:20

       Yeah.

   17. APAlex Partridge20:21

       But because they're different, they hold a lot of shame about those differences, and they sort of withhold them. They stop them from coming to the surface, which is, which is really sad.

7. 20:28 – 21:49

   How to embrace your differences

   1. APAlex Partridge20:28

      Like, how can somebody embrace their differences?

   2. SPShanna Pearson20:33

      I think that we have to embrace our differences. And we also ... It's, it's almost like saying, how do we embrace our, how do we embrace our, our hands?

   3. APAlex Partridge20:41

      Mm.

   4. SPShanna Pearson20:42

      And how do we embrace-

   5. APAlex Partridge20:43

      [laughs]

   6. SPShanna Pearson20:43

      ... our elbow? Let's embrace our elbow, okay? Like, really, like, this is a great elbow.

   7. APAlex Partridge20:47

      Sure.

   8. SPShanna Pearson20:47

      Come on.

   9. APAlex Partridge20:48

      Yeah. [laughs]

   10. SPShanna Pearson20:48

       You've got a, you've got, like, two fantastic elbows. Like, how do we embrace our differences? Just embracing, by embracing yourself, you can look at ... What I love to do with our clients is notice what you've done right. It's like what people tell parents to tell their kids, you know? Focus on what you've done right. How about just doing that for yourself?

   11. APAlex Partridge21:08

       Mm.

   12. SPShanna Pearson21:08

       You know? What did you do well? Don't look for amazingness. Don't look at, like, anything groundbreaking because you'll, it's really hard for most of us to see any of that, even if there is, even if it's there. But just focus on what you're doing well, and then don't just think about it. Write it down. Because if I told you to focus on any kind of success you've had over the last week, you would think about it, and it might feel good, but the second that you get pissed off, you're gonna forget about it.

   13. APAlex Partridge21:38

       Mm. Object permanence, like-

   14. SPShanna Pearson21:40

       Com-

   15. APAlex Partridge21:40

       ... out of sight, out of mind

   16. SPShanna Pearson21:42

       It's gone. It's gone

   17. APAlex Partridge21:43

       Success amnesia is a, you know-

   18. SPShanna Pearson21:44

       Yeah

   19. APAlex Partridge21:45

       ... is just a fancy way of saying we literally forget about the stuff we're good at.

8. 21:49 – 28:41

   The hack that’s helping thousands of ADHD adults

   1. APAlex Partridge21:49

      [laughs]

   2. SPShanna Pearson21:49

      All the time. So one of the exercises, um, that we do with our clients a lot, which I think is super helpful, and it's in the book also, and I think everyone should do this, is called facts are friendly. And I feel like we're very emotional, but if somebody s- if you're, if you're in the worst mood ever and, and someone just really pissed you off and told you that, you know, nobody liked your video, [laughs]

   3. APAlex Partridge22:12

      [laughs]

   4. SPShanna Pearson22:13

      Like, and you felt really bad about yourself, and then, you know, and I, and, and, and then somebody said, "No, no, Alex, you're wonderful," are you gonna believe them? Pro- maybe not. You might not, right?

   5. APAlex Partridge22:26

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SPShanna Pearson22:26

      But if somebody said, "Alex, two times two is four," are you gonna believe them? Of course you're gonna believe them, 'cause two times two is four. Okay? So you believe what's factual. So facts are friendly, I think, is awesome because what we do is you just write down the facts about anything you've done that was a positive. And I, I always tell our clients to keep it small. Keep your facts really small. You got up on time today, [laughs] like, okay? You gave somebody a hug before you left. You, you know, you, you helped somebody or you did this for yourself or, you know, you managed to not forget X-

   7. APAlex Partridge22:59

      Mm

   8. SPShanna Pearson22:59

      ... Y, Z. Anything that's a fact that shows that you're actually progressing from point A to point B. And if it's, like, a bigger suc- you know, a success, then you can write those down-

   9. APAlex Partridge23:09

      Mm

   10. SPShanna Pearson23:09

       ... obviously. Um, but we really focus on the facts because you can't negate a fact even when you're feeling terrible about yourself. You can't. It's like two times two is four. It's like, "No, it isn't."

   11. APAlex Partridge23:22

       [laughs]

   12. SPShanna Pearson23:23

       "Don't tell me that. It's not true." Yes, it is. And so we have people write down facts of, of what's been going right and then also have them write down, not just think about it, but write down how they felt about whatever it was that they did, you know, if it was something that was in any way monumental, and how they did what they did. What did you do to make that happen? How, how did you do that? You know, what did you do differently? And so now people are starting to focus on what's, focusing on, on-

   13. APAlex Partridge23:55

       Mm

   14. SPShanna Pearson23:55

       ... on what's right and what, not what's wrong. And, and by writing it down, and this is key, that sounds so juvenile in a way, but you have to. You have it there right in front of you when, not if, you forget, 'cause you will forget.

   15. APAlex Partridge24:08

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SPShanna Pearson24:08

       You're gonna forget, like, in an hour.

   17. APAlex Partridge24:10

       Really useful, and I think, like, it's okay to move the definition of what a successful thing is, like, depending on your mood that day.

   18. SPShanna Pearson24:18

       That's exactly right.

   19. APAlex Partridge24:19

       Like, getting out of bed-Can feel easy on some days-

   20. SPShanna Pearson24:22

       Yeah

   21. APAlex Partridge24:22

       ... but if stuff's hap- if stuff's going on in your life, then that can completely change how much energy you've got that particular day.

   22. SPShanna Pearson24:29

       Yeah, you really don't want to get out of bed.

   23. APAlex Partridge24:30

       If you're, like, going to work and you're- you've got to reply to five emails, it's easy to say, "Well, okay, replying to five emails is successful," but some days just turning on your laptop is the task, right?

   24. SPShanna Pearson24:40

       Just sitting down and, like, trying to focus on anything is, feels impossible some days. So yeah.

   25. APAlex Partridge24:46

       Forgetting your successes, like, I feel like s- success amnesia, that's quite a niche characteristic, certainly from my experience in speaking to many people with ADHD that-

   26. SPShanna Pearson24:54

       Yeah

   27. APAlex Partridge24:54

       ... a doctor wouldn't tell you about, right? Like, what-

   28. SPShanna Pearson24:56

       They have no idea. They don't understand this.

   29. APAlex Partridge24:58

       [laughs]

   30. SPShanna Pearson24:58

       They don't... So I, we, you know, we have a lot of... This is interesting. I thought this was interesting. Um, we ended up having quite a few doctors who are p- who are clients of ours 'cause, like, they started off as, like, referral partners.
9. 28:41 – 29:42

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   1. APAlex Partridge28:41

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10. 29:42 – 36:38

    How to turn ADHD into a superpower

    1. APAlex Partridge29:42

       Do you have any other tips of how somebody might be able to turn their struggles into a superpower?

    2. SPShanna Pearson29:47

       So I want to just reframe it. I, I, I feel like a lot of our struggles are struggles.

    3. APAlex Partridge29:53

       Mm.

    4. SPShanna Pearson29:54

       And I don't, personally, I don't love the word superpower, and I'll tell you why. I have, like, a thing about it, an aversion because I think about, I don't know when it became, like, a big thing that ADHD is a superpower.

    5. APAlex Partridge30:06

       Mm.

    6. SPShanna Pearson30:09

       I don't think it is a superpower. I think it's really, really hard to have ADHD, and sometimes when we tell people, you know, "Let's turn this into a superpower" or, "You have ADHD, like, do you realize that that's actually a superpower?"And they feel like, they feel horrible about themselves-

    7. APAlex Partridge30:28

       Mm

    8. SPShanna Pearson30:28

       ... and they, and they can't get out of bed on time, and they can't do anything right according to whatever right is for them and other people. It feels even worse because now I have this superpower, and I'm failing at that, too, [laughs] you know? So I always like, I, I always, like, want people to know that ADHD is, is actually quite hard to live with, um, on so many levels. And, and the challenges, the challenges that we have, we can turn them around-

    9. APAlex Partridge30:58

       Mm

    10. SPShanna Pearson30:59

        ... so that we're not challenged by them anymore, period. And they just become, like, they kind of evaporate from this heavy challenge into just, like, this is just, you know, this is... Now I know what to do, and now I know how to, how to do this-

    11. APAlex Partridge31:13

        Mm

    12. SPShanna Pearson31:13

        ... versus thinking of it as, like, turning it into a superpower because there is no, there is no sup- I think our, our, you know, something we're amazing at is hyper-focusing.

    13. APAlex Partridge31:21

        Mm.

    14. SPShanna Pearson31:22

        That's, that's great, but it can also keep us away from other things that we wanna be doing or need to be doing also, so it's about balancing. That's, that's the goal.

    15. APAlex Partridge31:31

        I feel like one of those challenges or key challenges is, like, just feeling misunderstood, um, because of those differences perhaps. The way you go about the world is just slightly different to what you've been taught is, quote unquote, "normal."

    16. SPShanna Pearson31:43

        Yeah.

    17. APAlex Partridge31:43

        Um, like for example, we mentioned earlier that overwhelm sometimes. You know, those highly caffeinated squirrels all in your head barreling around, different thoughts pulling you in a different direction, and you physically can't move sometimes because of that overwhelm.

    18. SPShanna Pearson31:54

        You're paralyzed

    19. APAlex Partridge31:55

        ... and that can look like laziness to those close to you, but that's an example. How can ADHD be misunderstood generally to those close to you?

    20. SPShanna Pearson32:05

        I think that, I think you just hit it on the head. When, when you're paralyzed in overwhelm, you can literally be like this.

    21. APAlex Partridge32:14

        Mm.

    22. SPShanna Pearson32:14

        Like, and you have like 1,000 things to do, and you're just sitting there, like, trying to figure out what on earth you're gonna do first and how you're gonna do it, and this is sort of how it feels in your brain-

    23. APAlex Partridge32:24

        Mm

    24. SPShanna Pearson32:24

        ... where you're just, like, bracing. And everything sort of feel... You know what? Do you like amusement parks?

    25. APAlex Partridge32:29

        Yeah, for sure. Roller coasters.

    26. SPShanna Pearson32:31

        Okay. So I love roller coasters, too, and you know how it's, like, really scary when you're going up the hill?

    27. APAlex Partridge32:36

        Mm.

    28. SPShanna Pearson32:37

        Like, we talk about going down, but it's like-

    29. APAlex Partridge32:38

        Yeah

    30. SPShanna Pearson32:39

        ... when you're going up [laughs]
11. 36:38 – 41:45

    Why ADHD women were missed

    1. APAlex Partridge36:38

       ADHD women, why do you think they get missed? Why do you think so many were diagnosed late?

    2. SPShanna Pearson36:43

       I, I think that we were, back in the day [laughs] when, when I was in school, way long ago-

    3. APAlex Partridge36:50

       [laughs]

    4. SPShanna Pearson36:51

       ... the horse and the buggies. No, the... I mean-

    5. APAlex Partridge36:54

       [laughs]

    6. SPShanna Pearson36:54

       ... at that time, honestly, it was, it was a boys thing.

    7. APAlex Partridge36:57

       Mm.

    8. SPShanna Pearson36:57

       And, and the boys, um, who have ADHD, in general, and I, I wanna stress in general because there's plenty of boys that don't do this, um, but in general, the majority of boys are very external in their hyperactivity, so they're more disturbing. Like, they're disruptive in class. They're running around. They can't sit still. They're, like, pulling on girls' hair. They're, they're being annoying to other people [laughs] . And so the, the teachers, it's like the, the squeaky wheel. And, you know, that kid is gonna get a lot of attention-

    9. APAlex Partridge37:28

       Mm

    10. SPShanna Pearson37:28

        ... and is gonna get noticed, and the teachers are gonna be, you know, calling the parents and tell- and the parents are gonna be taking the kid to the pediatrician. Like, "What is wrong with my kid? Um, that kid just can't sit still." The girls, in general [laughs] , 'cause plenty of girls are not like this, but most of them are, are internal, and their hyperactivity is like... It's kinda like what we were describing now where, but we have it... I mean, a lot of men have it later in life-

    11. APAlex Partridge37:52

        Mm

    12. SPShanna Pearson37:52

        ... um, that their external, like, goes internal. But girls have always been the internal hyperactivity, and they are literally sitting there silently, silently, not disturbing anyone, just in their mind, completely in their mind, whether they're trying to please their teacher or trying to get something right, and they don't even know what they're trying to get right, or just, like, getting lost in a daydream-

    13. APAlex Partridge38:15

        Mm

    14. SPShanna Pearson38:15

        ... because it's a beautiful daydream-

    15. APAlex Partridge38:16

        [laughs]

    16. SPShanna Pearson38:16

        ... and it's definitely more interesting than what's g- happening in class right now in front of them. Or, you know, just, you know, just, just inside, and you're not disruptive.

    17. APAlex Partridge38:26

        Mm.

    18. SPShanna Pearson38:27

        And your teachers love you 'cause you don't say anything [laughs] 'cause-

    19. APAlex Partridge38:30

        [laughs]

    20. SPShanna Pearson38:30

        ... you're, like, you don't even know what's going on. [laughs] So you're very, you're an easy, you're an easy student.

    21. APAlex Partridge38:35

        Mm.

    22. SPShanna Pearson38:35

        And so we got missed because we tended to be very quiet, in general. [laughs]

    23. APAlex Partridge38:41

        In your book, you, you speak about smart yet scattered women. Um-

    24. SPShanna Pearson38:45

        Mm

    25. APAlex Partridge38:46

        ... do you meet a lot of these women? What does that sort of brain look like? What frustrations can come with being smart yet scattered?

    26. SPShanna Pearson38:55

        When, when you have a nonstop brain, and it's just going at, like, 100 miles an hour, and there's, like, a, you see every possibility open all at the same time-

    27. APAlex Partridge39:08

        Mm

    28. SPShanna Pearson39:08

        ... so there's no time and place for each possibility, it's all there right now, and which is why the, we get scattered because, like, you're going there, and then you're going there, and you wanna go there, and you wanna go there, and you wanna go there right now, like, and yesterday, right?

    29. APAlex Partridge39:21

        Yes. [laughs]

    30. SPShanna Pearson39:21

        And maybe also next week 'cause that would be great. [laughs] But it's just that's... And because we're intelligent people in general, like most of us are, all of these possibilities keep getting bigger, and there's more possibilities, and we're thinking of more ideas and more different ways of doing the same things, and, well, that's interesting, and we're very curious because we see everything, and we're open to everything, and it's all interesting, and we're attracted to what's interesting. We're like magnets towards that because we need the stimulus. And so it's almost impossible not to be scattered when you're interested in seeing and engaged in so many different things at the same time. It's y- how could you-
12. 41:45 – 48:07

    Why some ADHD women feel unlovable

    1. APAlex Partridge41:45

       Do, do you think generally ADHD women f- have a internal feeling of being unlovable?

    2. SPShanna Pearson41:51

       I think that, um, not necessarily as being unlovable. The w- the, the people, the women especially, that I've spoken to who are, who we work with that feel unlovable are the ones that have had the hardest times in relationships. But even... So I wanna bring this back, so remind me that I said this. Even they realize that they are lovable-

    3. APAlex Partridge42:14

       Mm

    4. SPShanna Pearson42:16

       ... because if, if we went back to that guest or those guests that you've had, and they're talking about how unlovable they are, I would immediately ask them, "Who has ever loved you? Who has ever loved you at any moment?" And then I would want them to write down those people, and maybe it's only one person. Maybe it's their grandparent. [laughs] Maybe, maybe it's a bunch of people. Maybe they realize that it's certain people in their family, and maybe they'll realize that-They had two relationships where this person was madly in love with them, even if it was for two days [laughs] , you know? Or, you know, 'cause a lot of us have a lot of, you know, different relationships, and it's like, it's- it's a little bit, um, that in itself is a little bit challenging. But even if they just realize that this person, or, you know, they had this relationship and this person did love them. So, like, tell me, how did that love feel for you when your grandmother and that boyfriend or girlfriend or sibling or best friend or whoever it was, and you realize the people in your life that have loved you-

    5. APAlex Partridge43:20

       It's hard, though

    6. SPShanna Pearson43:20

       ... you're factually lovable even-

    7. APAlex Partridge43:23

       Mm

    8. SPShanna Pearson43:23

       ... if nobody loves you right now, or you feel nobody loves you right now, even though I promise you somebody does.

    9. APAlex Partridge43:30

       But what if that kind of irrational internal critic thinks that they loved a- a version of you that wasn't your true self? Like, a lot of us put on a- a persona at the start of a relationship. We mask. That's not unusual, right? Um, and we can convince ourselves that they loved that version. Then when we unmask in the relationship-

    10. SPShanna Pearson43:47

        Well, they loved the version that you were giving them-

    11. APAlex Partridge43:50

        Mm

    12. SPShanna Pearson43:50

        ... which doesn't make you unlovable. That just makes you a really good, um, person to portray a certain aspect of your personality that you wanted to portray at that time. That's still a part of you, even though it's not, like, your soul.

    13. APAlex Partridge44:02

        Mm.

    14. SPShanna Pearson44:02

        And they loved that version of you that you chose, that you yourself brilliantly designed to portray, and that was you who did that. That was your creation, so that's still you.

    15. APAlex Partridge44:16

        What facts can we write down that can remind ourselves of that? 'Cause I feel like a lot of people, they might put a version of themselves forward into the world, and whether that's intentional or not, it can be very different to how they truly feel underneath, and they can convince themselves that the person didn't love the real version of them, they loved the masked version of them. Like, what facts, going back to your advice earlier, what facts can we write down to reassure us of the fact that our true self-

    16. SPShanna Pearson44:39

        Um, how did I create that version of myself? First of all, who was that?

    17. APAlex Partridge44:44

        Mm.

    18. SPShanna Pearson44:45

        [laughs] Tell me who that version was and write that down. How did I create it? Because I created it. You created it. They created it. This isn't something somebody said, "Here's a script. This is who you're gonna be, Alex. In this relationship, I want you to be this person." This is something that you came up with.

    19. APAlex Partridge45:00

        Mm.

    20. SPShanna Pearson45:01

        It's you, which is beautiful, and somebody fell in love with that part of you, and you don't think it's your true self or your true soul, but it's still something that you created from your true self and from your true soul. It's still you, right? So, you just... I- I write down everything, and I write it down in places like, in ways that I can see it. So, I would write it in big letters. You know, I created this. They loved that. You know, who am I really? Well, you could tell me that you're, if it's, if, like, the masked part of you and the part that you don't want people to see, right? And so, which part of you is that part of you? And, you know, you, I would want you to embrace that part of you so that you could then be, you know, you don't know if that part of you is lovable or not because you've probably never let anyone see it. So therefore, you have zero fact [laughs] that you're unlovable for those per- like, that part of your personality-

    21. APAlex Partridge45:55

        Mm

    22. SPShanna Pearson45:55

        ... because nobody knows that part of you. If I always kept my elbow covered-

    23. APAlex Partridge46:00

        [laughs]

    24. SPShanna Pearson46:00

        ... [laughs] nobody can say, "What a great elbow," right? Nobody can say, "Alex, you are awesome in this and this and this way," if you've never let anyone see that part of you.

    25. APAlex Partridge46:09

        Mm.

    26. SPShanna Pearson46:09

        But the parts that you have created and the parts that are out in the world, people love. So, so far, you could just look at that and- and notice that the parts of you that you do put out there have been lovable. They have been. And quite possibly, the other parts that you would like to put out there in the future, and maybe you will, and I hope you do, those parts will be lovable to someone as well.

    27. APAlex Partridge46:35

        They have to learn to love all of you, right? Even when you get triggered by RSD, whether you, whether they know it or not, and you go inward perhaps with shame or- or maybe you fill up with rage, but you internalize it. Like, they have to love you as a whole, right? Like-

    28. SPShanna Pearson46:48

        You know what? I don't know. Because I'm married, okay? And I definitely know that my husband does not love my whole, like, every single-

    29. APAlex Partridge47:00

        [laughs]

    30. SPShanna Pearson47:00

        ... part of me. Like, there's no way.
13. 48:07 – 53:00

    How to manage Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria

    1. APAlex Partridge48:07

       It does, yeah. I feel like RSD, Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria, um, is one of those quirks, right, that needs managing and can cause a- a thorn in the relationship-

    2. SPShanna Pearson48:16

       Totally

    3. APAlex Partridge48:16

       ... if it's not understood.

    4. SPShanna Pearson48:17

       It's a huge deal, and I think that's something that you have to talk to anybody you're in a relationship with about, like, "This is what happens to me. This is what happens to me." Like, y- it, you- you experience RSD, right? So, you would tell people, like, you would tell your partner, "This is what happens to me. I don't love it. I wish it didn't happen because it feels horrible. Like, I wanna go into a hole and never come out again, and this is notSomething that I embrace with all my heart. I, I would love for this to change, 'cause I don't know anyone with RSD who wants to, who, like, loves that. It's, it's, it's heartbreaking, and anybody who loves you, um, will understand it even if they don't love that part. Does that make sense?

    5. APAlex Partridge49:06

       Mm. No, d- totally. Yeah, I mean, RSD-

    6. SPShanna Pearson49:07

       So when you separate yourself-

    7. APAlex Partridge49:08

       Mm

    8. SPShanna Pearson49:08

       ... they'll be like, "Okay, that's Alex doing that, and this is what I need to do when that happens"

    9. APAlex Partridge49:15

       How would you describe the feeling of RSD? Like, how d- how does it show up in your people you coach?

    10. SPShanna Pearson49:20

        And for myself personally, where everything is just, like, there's no way... If you think about it, like, we're very porous, [laughs] so we feel everything. And where some people can be more like a glass, right, where things just kind of like bounce off of it, but if we feel everything and something happens, like, oh my gosh, like, when you, when you looked at me like that, it looked like you hated me.

    11. APAlex Partridge49:46

        Mm.

    12. SPShanna Pearson49:46

        When you say things like that, like, it startles me. And I think for a lot of our clients, that's what, that's what it is. It's like these little movements, like what you were describing earlier, these little s- um, suggestions and, and, and facial expressions are, like, mirrored to us. And I think a lot of it is, you know, showing us how we feel ourselves and asking, like, why am I, you know, just, just taking everything to mean the worst possible thing? That's what it feels like because we grew up thinking something is very wrong with us or something, why can't we fit in, and why does nobody like me, and why do I not... why am I not connected to everyone the way all of these other kids-

    13. APAlex Partridge50:33

        Mm

    14. SPShanna Pearson50:33

        ... are connected to each other? Especially girls, 'cause girls are, like, they always, like, stick in groups, and I was never in a group ever. And, like, so you're always thinking there's something wrong with you, and then people show you that with a facial expression or a word. You can just ask yourself. It's like, one of the things you can do is, is asking, like, what meaning you're putting on it. Like, what d- what do I think she meant by that, or what do I think he meant by that, or what did they, you know, what was that about? And you could just ask the person.

    15. APAlex Partridge51:05

        Mm.

    16. SPShanna Pearson51:05

        I've gotten really annoyingly good at asking, like, "Did you mean anything by that?" And usually it's like, "What are you talking about? No. I didn't mean it. What, what do you mean? I don't even realize I did that." [laughs]

    17. APAlex Partridge51:16

        It can be the, like, perceived, right? Like, the criticisms and rejections. Like, you could find out about a social event and, and you could question someone who's going, and they said, "Yeah, this h- this party's happening. You can come if you like." If, like, you... s- and that can really set you up.

    18. SPShanna Pearson51:30

        What do you mean if you like?

    19. APAlex Partridge51:31

        It can-

    20. SPShanna Pearson51:31

        Don't you want me there? [laughs] Right?

    21. APAlex Partridge51:33

        You sh- it, it, it, it can make you feel like your presence at that party is gonna be a nuisance to them because they haven't explicitly invite, invited you. You almost, in the absence of positivity, like, you assume the worst.

    22. SPShanna Pearson51:43

        Yeah, you assume the worst.

    23. APAlex Partridge51:44

        Um, do you think this, this thought pattern is more common in, in women than men?

    24. SPShanna Pearson51:49

        Honestly, I don't think it's more common in women than in men. I think plenty of men-

    25. APAlex Partridge51:53

        Mm

    26. SPShanna Pearson51:54

        ... plenty of men experience this. Plenty of men, um, most men have become professionals at masking that part of, of them because they can't look vulnerable, and they don't wanna look, like, defeated or sad or, or, you know, express, like, "Well, that made me feel bad." Like, well, you don't talk about your feelings, you know? But so many men-

    27. APAlex Partridge52:19

        Mm

    28. SPShanna Pearson52:19

        ... experience this, and it's really hard, I think especially for men, because I feel like they have, um, it's less acceptable still, which is sad, for them to, to be, a, for a man to be like, "Well, why did you say it like that?" You know? "This is how it made me feel." Like, that's just, like, not very manly.

    29. APAlex Partridge52:38

        Mm.

    30. SPShanna Pearson52:38

        You know? But you absolutely can. You can, you say it in your own way. Like, "Oh, so you don't really care if I come or not?" "No, what do you mean? I just didn't want you to feel pressured that you have to come. Well, I would love for you to come." Like, you can just turn the whole thing around.
14. 53:00 – 59:06

    Why ADHD women get misdiagnosed with anxiety

    1. APAlex Partridge53:00

       ADHD women, I often hear they get misdiagnosed with anxiety, depression before an ADHD diagnosis.

    2. SPShanna Pearson53:09

       Yeah.

    3. APAlex Partridge53:09

       Why do you think that is?

    4. SPShanna Pearson53:11

       I think because, uh, a lot of doctors don't have a ton of information on ADHD and what that looks like. Even the ADHD diagnostic criteria is very executive function based, and it doesn't really touch on the emotional side. So for women who tend to experience ADHD much more on the emotional side, we're gonna, we're, we're gonna be answering these assessments, like, that the doctors give us. U- usually if you tell your doctor you're feeling down or your life isn't working and why can't I just, [laughs] they're gonna give you assessments for anxiety and depression. And then if you look at the assessments they give you, so in, in America, I don't, I, I think it's probably the exact same here. This is what they'll give you. They'll give you a clipboard-

    5. APAlex Partridge53:52

       Right

    6. SPShanna Pearson53:53

       ... [laughs] and it's gonna have, it's gonna have the depression, you know, self-assessment scale. Like, this is actually what it is. Okay, so now you're a woman with ADHD, and it's like, little, you know, little interest in doing things. Now imagine if you're, like, stuck in school or in a job and you're like, "You c- it's so boring," and you can't, you can't focus. Like, you're gonna be, like, several days, more than half the days, feeling down, trouble falling asleep, trouble staying asleep, um, poor appetite or overeating. Like, these are, like, I feel like people with ADHD have one or the other. Um, we're not really balanced in the food, in the food area. Feeling bad about yourself, trouble concentrating on things. [laughs] These are, um, being fidgety or restless. These are, like, there's, there's nine questions on this self-assessment, and eight of them are all ADHD symptoms.So you're gonna fall under, you're gonna, you're gonna be diagnosed by your doctor with, with depression, and you very well might be put on an antidepressant because that's what happens to about 80% of the women that we coach were initially misdiagnosed with depression. And the anxiety questionnaire is the exact same thing, except that it's, it's literally, there's seven, it's a GAD7. This is what they give you at the doctor's office. You know, trouble relaxing, worrying too much, feeling nervous, being restless, being annoyed, [laughs] like when you like, you know, um, you know, feeling afraid. These are all things that people, especially women with ADHD, experience regularly. And so we are almost always misdiagnosed initially, unless you're seeing a doctor that knows ADHD, in which case they will then look a little bit deeper. But if they don't, y- it's gonna come out like you have, you're gonna show that you have depression and that you have anxiety.

    7. APAlex Partridge55:46

       Anger, do you see a lot of anger when women finally realize that they were misdiagnosed?

    8. SPShanna Pearson55:51

       Um, I don't know if anger. Some women are, are, are pissed. [laughs]

    9. APAlex Partridge55:57

       Well, rightly so.

    10. SPShanna Pearson55:58

        They were, they were taking antidepressants for years-

    11. APAlex Partridge56:02

        Mm

    12. SPShanna Pearson56:03

        ... and it doesn't work, and God knows how many women that happens to who don't then go seek a different diagnosis, right? Because if you have ADHD and you're misdiagnosed with anxiety or depression, and then you're put on medication, it's not gonna work in the same way that if you're put on, you know, medication to also help your ADHD. And so now your life is still not working. You still feel bad about yourself. You're not able to follow through on things, and you're not, you know, and, and, and you're on medication, and that can make people even more depressed because now even that's not working, but you think it should be working. So anger, um, frustration, like so much frustration, like what is wrong with people that they can't see what this, you know, what this really is? But on the flip side, there's a lot of women who are finally properly diagnosed with ADHD, and that's when, like, the light bulb hits-

    13. APAlex Partridge56:55

        Mm

    14. SPShanna Pearson56:55

        ... and they're like, "Oh my God, that is totally me." [laughs] You know? And they're, and they're really happy and relieved about that 'cause now they actually have an answer.

    15. APAlex Partridge57:04

        Do you see significant changes to a woman's life after an ADHD diagnosis?

    16. SPShanna Pearson57:09

        Uh, not right after an ADHD diagnosis. I see it in their mood 'cause it's kind of like the, this, like the veil is lifted.

    17. APAlex Partridge57:17

        Mm.

    18. SPShanna Pearson57:17

        You know? So they don't feel... Now they understand themselves a little bit, whereas before, you know, even if nobody else in the world understands you, when you don't understand you, it's really, really difficult. It's awful. Um, but now if you've been diagnosed with ADHD and still nobody understands you, but you now understand you, that's a game changer.

    19. APAlex Partridge57:41

        Mm.

    20. SPShanna Pearson57:41

        That's a game changer because now it's like, "Okay, this is why I am the way I am. This is why I do what I do." And you're at a point now where you're at choice. It's like, well, okay, is there anything I can do about this? 'Cause obviously there is, but now it's up to you rather than everything being, like, lost and not knowing what to do.

    21. APAlex Partridge58:01

        And if a woman's listening, maybe they've just had a diagnosis and they've come to this podcast to find reassurance, what closing words of wisdom would you give to a late diagnosed ADHD woman?

    22. SPShanna Pearson58:09

        Oh my gosh. The best thing you can know if you have ADHD is that your symptoms and all of the things that are difficult for you, there are, y- they are manageable, and you can absolutely do things in a way that work much better and much more easily for your brain. And I, I, I promise you, and if this can work for, you know, all of our clients who swore that nothing works for them and that they are beyond help and beyond hope, I promise you this will work. Like, not this, like anything, but it's manageable. I know that for a fact, and so you're good. You're good. You just have to take the steps, and you have to learn what you need to do in a way, you know, to do things in a way that actually works with how you think and with how you do things.

    23. APAlex Partridge58:56

        Amazing. I feel like that was, like, 22,000 ADHD clients condensed into a paragraph.

    24. SPShanna Pearson59:02

        Uh-huh, yeah.

    25. APAlex Partridge59:02

        So that was incredible.

    26. SPShanna Pearson59:04

        It's unbelievable. It's amazing.

15. 59:06 – 1:02:17

    Shanna’s ADHD item

    1. APAlex Partridge59:06

       My favorite part of the show, um, just penultimately, I want to reveal your ADHD item.

    2. SPShanna Pearson59:12

       Okay.

    3. APAlex Partridge59:12

       I always ask my guests to bring in-

    4. SPShanna Pearson59:14

       [laughs]

    5. APAlex Partridge59:14

       ... an item that represents ADHD, and yours has been patiently waiting underneath this cloth. I'm going to reveal it now.

    6. SPShanna Pearson59:19

       Do, do, do. [gasps] [laughs]

    7. APAlex Partridge59:23

       A sponge. In fact, there's two sponges. One just went flying.

    8. SPShanna Pearson59:26

       [laughs]

    9. APAlex Partridge59:27

       Here's the second one.

    10. SPShanna Pearson59:28

        Yay. All right, awesome.

    11. APAlex Partridge59:30

        There we go. Why does a sponge, uh, represent ADHD?

    12. SPShanna Pearson59:33

        We should also have, like, a bucket of water. But the thing about... And, and I lo- you were talking a lot about RSD.

    13. APAlex Partridge59:38

        Mm.

    14. SPShanna Pearson59:38

        And what I want people to understand about, about who we are as ADH-ers is we are incredibly porous. We absorb everything. We absorb all of the stimulus, we absorb all of the information, and we absorb all of the emotion. All of the emotion. And if, if this were, like, emotion, like, you were talking about, like, when, when we, we pick up on everything, right? So if, if there's, like, a whole bunch of, like, external stuff over here from other people, and you put the sponge in it, it's going to soak it all up, and it has nowhere to go except for in this big sponge. And so, like, when you, like, squeeze it out, it's all coming out all at the same time. It's not like we have places. It's like, this is, like, my work area, and this is my home, and this is my relationship. It doesn't work like that. Everything just gets all mixed up in itself and absorbed into one area, and then it all comes out, you know, when it's, when it's too much. And so this is the porousness. Is that a word? It is now.

    15. APAlex Partridge1:00:41

        Just make it up. I'm sure it is, yeah.

    16. SPShanna Pearson1:00:42

        The porousnability-

    17. APAlex Partridge1:00:43

        [laughs] Yeah

    18. SPShanna Pearson1:00:45

        ... of, of the ADHER is how we, we honestly absorb-

    19. APAlex Partridge1:00:49

        Mm

    20. SPShanna Pearson1:00:49

        ... everything

    21. APAlex Partridge1:00:51

        Incredible. I never, ever thought that. I'm not gonna be able to wash my dishes now at home without thinking of my-

    22. SPShanna Pearson1:00:55

        Well, listen, we are, we are porous

    23. APAlex Partridge1:00:57

        ... entire [laughs]

    24. SPShanna Pearson1:00:57

        That's how... I, I use that word a lot with our clients.

    25. APAlex Partridge1:00:59

        Mm.

    26. SPShanna Pearson1:00:59

        It's just like when you think of yourself like that, you can get it. You can get why you feel so-

    27. APAlex Partridge1:01:04

        Mm

    28. SPShanna Pearson1:01:04

        ... much.

    29. APAlex Partridge1:01:05

        And should we, like, try to manage and, and wring some of that water out, or do we embrace it?

    30. SPShanna Pearson1:01:12

        Um, you embrace it and you manage it. You embrace it while you manage it because you better embrace it because it's not going away in terms of, like, you're not gonna be a different person, but you're gonna know what to do with all of that emotion.
16. 1:02:17 – 1:04:32

    The ADHD agony aunt

    1. APAlex Partridge1:02:17

       favorite part of the show, which is also my favorite part of the show.

    2. SPShanna Pearson1:02:20

       Awesome.

    3. APAlex Partridge1:02:20

       Two favorite parts.

    4. SPShanna Pearson1:02:20

       I love that you have multiple favorites.

    5. APAlex Partridge1:02:22

       It's the ADHD agony aunt section, and it's called the washing machine of woes because an audience member writes in, and it goes in the washing machine 'cause that's my item which, 'cause I always forget my laundry in the machine after the cycle has finished.

    6. SPShanna Pearson1:02:34

       That's a great washing machine. Did you... [laughs]

    7. APAlex Partridge1:02:37

       Oh, thank you. [laughs]

    8. SPShanna Pearson1:02:37

       [laughs]

    9. APAlex Partridge1:02:39

       I always ask, like, "Well, do you do that? Do you forget your laundry in the machine?"

    10. SPShanna Pearson1:02:42

        I f- I, I, I forget my laundry in the dryer.

    11. APAlex Partridge1:02:45

        Right. Okay.

    12. SPShanna Pearson1:02:45

        Yeah.

    13. APAlex Partridge1:02:46

        But-

    14. SPShanna Pearson1:02:46

        Which is equally bad

    15. APAlex Partridge1:02:47

        Yeah

    16. SPShanna Pearson1:02:47

        It doesn't smell, but it's always-

    17. APAlex Partridge1:02:48

        Doesn't, you-

    18. SPShanna Pearson1:02:48

        ... very wrinkly

    19. APAlex Partridge1:02:49

        ... you skip the damp smell-

    20. SPShanna Pearson1:02:50

        Yeah

    21. APAlex Partridge1:02:50

        ... so that's handy.

    22. SPShanna Pearson1:02:51

        [laughs]

    23. APAlex Partridge1:02:51

        I have been using the Tiimo app, though, and I have been getting a lot better.

    24. SPShanna Pearson1:02:54

        Oh, good.

    25. APAlex Partridge1:02:54

        Um, someone's written in, Shauna, this week into the washing machine, and they have asked, "I feel like I have masked my whole life and imitated those around me to fit in. I don't even know who I really am, and I have no sense of self. This is apparently an ADHD trait, but I'm also told it's a borderline personality trait. How can I tell which it is, ADHD or BPD?" Gosh, that's a tricky one.

    26. SPShanna Pearson1:03:24

        [laughs]

    27. APAlex Partridge1:03:24

        You can feel free to say pass.

    28. SPShanna Pearson1:03:26

        I think I'll pass on that one. [laughs]

    29. APAlex Partridge1:03:27

        Right. [laughs]

    30. SPShanna Pearson1:03:27

        I'm not a borderline personality disorder specialist. [laughs]
17. 1:04:32 – 1:06:33

    A letter from the previous guest

    1. APAlex Partridge1:04:32

       Just finally, Shauna, I want to deliver you a letter that was written by the previous guest where they wrote their three rules to live by.

    2. SPShanna Pearson1:04:39

       Okay. This is good. [laughs]

    3. APAlex Partridge1:04:43

       There we go.

    4. SPShanna Pearson1:04:44

       Three rules to live by. If something is taking more than it's giving, then that's a sign to get rid of it.

    5. APAlex Partridge1:04:51

       Gosh, yeah, deep, but very true.

    6. SPShanna Pearson1:04:54

       Use your emotions to help you decide on what tasks to, to do. If something is a effing bastard of a task, call it that, okay? Use your emotions to help you decide on what tasks to do. So I need, I need to say this. Um, in our coaching program, we absolutely do not do that ever because if you use your emotions to decide on what tasks to do, most of us would end up eating ice cream and watching movies all day long. [laughs]

    7. APAlex Partridge1:05:25

       [laughs]

    8. SPShanna Pearson1:05:25

       Like, 'cause that's what I wanna do, [laughs] and that's what I feel like doing. Um, and the things that I really don't wanna do that have to be done would never get done.

    9. APAlex Partridge1:05:34

       Mm.

    10. SPShanna Pearson1:05:35

        And then I would feel like a mess, and then I would feel discouraged, and then I would feel like, "Why is my life not, not the way I want it to be?" Because, um, I felt like the m- the w- the hardest times of my life, I was being driven by my emotions, and if there's one thing I've learned with all the work that I've done with ADHDers is, is it's action first, not emotion first.

    11. APAlex Partridge1:05:57

        Yeah. I mean, with a scatty mind and a sponge full of emotions, it can be hard which one to know which one to steer you.

    12. SPShanna Pearson1:06:03

        Yeah, and, and, and if you're doing the actions that you need to do in a way that's fun-

    13. APAlex Partridge1:06:08

        Mm

    14. SPShanna Pearson1:06:08

        ... and that works with your, who you are and your emotions, believe it or not, your emotions will actually change. That's why-

    15. APAlex Partridge1:06:15

        Mm

    16. SPShanna Pearson1:06:15

        ... our coaching is action first because the actions create the emotion, which then creates different results versus emotion first. Not for an ADHDer. [laughs]

    17. APAlex Partridge1:06:25

        Gosh, truly fascinating, Shauna. Um, thank you so much.

    18. SPShanna Pearson1:06:29

        You're welcome. [upbeat music]

Episode duration: 1:06:33