Holly Morris Opens Up About Late ADHD Diagnosis: "The pros and cons in my relationship!"

Alex Partridge 0:00 From being intensely afraid of playing buckaroo aged five, to moving to Greece on a whim, our next guest missed all the signs she had ADHD until she was 28 years old. This episode is for all of those who have received a late life diagnosis, or for anyone who hasn't been diagnosed yet. [upbeat music] Holly, thank you so much for joining us.

Holly Morris 0:21 Thank you for having me.

Alex Partridge 0:23 Starting right at the beginning-

Holly Morris 0:25 Yes

Alex Partridge 0:25 ... do you have any early memories of feeling different?

Holly Morris 0:30 I think I've always felt different. I can picture it from being four years old and thinking, what's... Well, no, I probably wasn't thinking that much at four years old. But-

Alex Partridge 0:38 [laughs]

Holly Morris 0:39 ... I've noticed from being at school, kind of overanalyzing a lot of situations at all times, and it's more now that I'm older and I look back on, I can still feel the thought process of five, six, seven-year-old me. I think that's so different from another child.

Alex Partridge 0:54 Mm.

Holly Morris 0:54 Like, things like, I can picture being five years old, and my parents having a buckaroo, and, um, that, you know, the little donkey-

Alex Partridge 1:02 Yeah, I remember

Holly Morris 1:03 ... and you add the stuff.

Alex Partridge 1:03 Yeah, I remember it well.

Holly Morris 1:04 Yeah.

Alex Partridge 1:05 Yeah.

Holly Morris 1:05 And I was so scared of that buckaroo bucking that every time I'd put something on, I'd then have to run out of the room, go up the stairs, and hide, and then watch it from afar, 'cause I didn't like the, um, the noise. I didn't like the not knowing of when it was gonna buck. [laughs]

Alex Partridge 1:23 Mm.

Holly Morris 1:23 So I think it's always, since being young, there's been elements... Or I never watched Harry Potter. Too scary. Like, there was always bits, I was like, "All of you aren't doing this, but I am," or, "All of you are doing this, and I'm not."

Alex Partridge 1:36 Yeah.

Holly Morris 1:36 [laughs]

Alex Partridge 1:37 That's so interesting. Do you think there's any other... Has that fear of the unknown or unexpected behavior, has that carried on at all into, into your, like, later years?

Holly Morris 1:46 Oh, absolutely. I'd say that most of my life is everything, everything is overanalyzed a lot before I do it.

Alex Partridge 1:52 Mm.

Holly Morris 1:52 And I try to say to myself, "Worrying isn't gonna change the outcome or the situation that's gonna arise eventually." But it's very, my brain, I can say that out loud, I can say it to you, I can say that, I can write it on Instagram, I can say it on TikTok. None of that will actually filter into, you know, my prefrontal cortex, whatever part of my brain is actually having to listen. So yeah, I think the unknown to me is something that needs to be known, but it never will.

Alex Partridge 2:18 Mm.

Holly Morris 2:18 So [laughs] it's a bit like a, it's a constant situation I find myself in, yeah.

Alex Partridge 2:24 Going

Alex Partridge 2:25 back, do you remember, do you remember what your school reports looked like?

Holly Morris 2:30 My school reports, I was thinking about this, and when I was a lot younger, probably up until the age of about 12, my school reports were brilliant. It was, um, always top of the class, trying really hard. Um, didn't have many mates, but obviously school reports didn't mind if you didn't have many mates.

Alex Partridge 2:45 [laughs]

Holly Morris 2:45 It was all about doing well. [laughs] And I think that's because I was so, I needed to please my, um, people in authority, like teachers-

Alex Partridge 2:54 Mm

Holly Morris 2:54 ... or my parents. That was very key to me. I wanted to be able to go home and say, "Mum, Dad, I've done really well." They'd say, "Good for you." But when I got to about 14, 15, I'd kind of got bored of not having many mates, and I looked at this cool group, and I thought, "That is more rewarding than getting a head teacher's award." So then I switched, and I realized that, uh, to be cool, you had to be a bit naughty, you had to be a bit chatty, be a bit funny. So then I d- I shifted, and my school reports would then say, "Holly is very distracted, distracts everyone around her, but she still does really well, so it's hard to tell her off."

Alex Partridge 3:30 Mm.

Holly Morris 3:31 Um, because then I shifted and I wanted to impress my peers, not my teachers. So yeah, it was like there was a year of my parents going, and it being like a, "Uh, what's happened?" kind of thing. But I was in, like, my parents didn't really mind 'cause they could see how happy I was 'cause I was in this cool group now. [laughs]

Alex Partridge 3:48 That's so interesting. You touched on a couple of things there about, like, the not having many mates-

Holly Morris 3:52 Yeah

Alex Partridge 3:53 ... um, and also the people-pleasing element. And-

Holly Morris 3:56 Oh, yeah

Alex Partridge 3:56 ... did, did you find ways to, to make friends, or have you always struggled

Alex Partridge 4:00 to maintain friendships?

Holly Morris 4:02 Um, yeah, I did. So I think when it got to that point, I've always had, like, a few, like, very close friends. But when it got to that point, when I was like, decided to be cool and I wanted to be in the cool group-

Alex Partridge 4:11 Mm

Holly Morris 4:11 ... I wasn't satisfied-

Alex Partridge 4:12 [laughs]

Holly Morris 4:12 ... with the group I'd found that had let me in, and I still didn't really even fit in with that group. So I kind of went to the cool group, and I basically think what I did is I watched their behaviors, how they acted, what they wore, what they said, what they talked about, and I thought, "Okay, well, that's what I'm gonna do." Like, 'cause I was, I was always quite childlike. I'd still play with, like, my Bratz dolls or things like that until I was quite old. So I think I thought, "You need to keep that to yourself." And I'd have one friend, and she'd come round, and we would play with them, but, like, no one else could know about it. Like, it was very-

Alex Partridge 4:44 [laughs]

Holly Morris 4:44 [laughs] And I think I just, over time, I learned the behaviors of these groups.

Alex Partridge 4:50 Mm.

Holly Morris 4:50 I mimicked them, and I did such a good job at that, that eventually, suddenly I was in this cool group, and I was well pleased with myself. I was absolutely chuffed.

Alex Partridge 5:00 That's so-- I, I've heard that so many times-

Holly Morris 5:03 Mm

Alex Partridge 5:03 ... where someone's almost, like, mirroring the behavior of others-

Holly Morris 5:06 Yeah

Alex Partridge 5:06 ... um, in order to fit in and to please a group. Did you feel like you knew who you really were at that stage in your life?

Holly Morris 5:16 Um, at the time I did, but, uh, 'cause all of this I'm saying now retrospectively. I didn't know at the time with the cool group that I was mimicking them, et cetera. It just was naturally happening.

Alex Partridge 5:25 Mm.

Holly Morris 5:26 I think I was just, I was always silently researching, so I was watching programs, I was watching how they behave, and that's how I was picking it up. I didn't know that. I just thought I was evolving into this-- I thought I was, like, having, like, a caterpillar to butterfly moment, and I was just becoming cool, but I wasn't. I was just, like, masking and-

Alex Partridge 5:42 Yeah

Holly Morris 5:43 ... um, appearing to be cool. I think I found a lot of the time that I, my behavior maybe at home was very different to my behavior at school. Or, like, I played a lot of Sims, Habbo Hotel. Played a lot of that. Don't know if you ever had Habbo Hotel.

Alex Partridge 5:57 I played a lot-

Holly Morris 5:57 It's like a horrible chat room.

Alex Partridge 5:59 No. No. [laughs]

Holly Morris 6:00 [laughs] It was, it was basically somewhere that you, it was like a Club Penguin, like, or like RuneScape, where you could, like, chat to people, and you could be whoever you wanted to be.

Alex Partridge 6:08 Mm.

Holly Morris 6:08 And so then I was like, "Oh, I can be whatever I wanna be." And that was, like, very easy to me. I think I realized I didn't quite match up with these people, because I thought But I always just felt like I didn't quite fit in anywhere, and I thought that's just me. And I fitted in my family. [clears throat] I fitted in my family, so I kind of thought, "I'm in the cool group, and that's all that matters, so it doesn't matter that-

Alex Partridge 6:30 Mm

Holly Morris 6:31 ... I'm not ... They don't need to know that I'm not h- always this cool girl," kind of thing.

Alex Partridge 6:36 Do you think you masked around your family when you were at home, or were you more able to be yourself at home?

Holly Morris 6:42 Um, did I mask my family? I don't think so, not t- I'm very close with ... So I've got mom and dad and my brother in my immediate household. I'm very close to all of them.

Alex Partridge 6:50 Mm.

Holly Morris 6:51 And I think 'cause I've been ... As well as having AD- ADHD, I've been anxious from quite a young age, and I think because of that I always had to be very honest with my feelings because, um, my parents really wanted to understand why I was the way I was. So they, it was, I was v- very, very privileged and lucky to have that. So they were always researching about anxiety or about how I was behaving, and because of that, they would ask me questions, and I could have an open dialogue.

Alex Partridge 7:13 Mm.

Holly Morris 7:13 So at home I was entirely myself and was very accepted for being myself, and was given leeway and was given space. I wasn't ever like, "Just get over it," or, "Just eat it," or, "Just go." My family were always like, "No, you don't have to do any of that."

Alex Partridge 7:32 Mm.

Holly Morris 7:32 Very accepting. Sounds like they've told me to say that. [laughs]

Alex Partridge 7:36 [laughs] When did you get

Alex Partridge 7:40 diagnosed with ADHD?

Holly Morris 7:41 Um, I got diagnosed, I think, about this time last year officially.

Alex Partridge 7:45 Mm.

Holly Morris 7:46 So I'd been going to therapy for, um, a coup- I've gone to therapy a few times in my life, but I'd been going to therapy again for about six months, and I said, "Oh, I feel a little bit this. I feel a little bit that." Um, and I couldn't be diagnosed at therapy, but I was kind of, like, directed in the right place for, like, resources.

Alex Partridge 8:01 Mm.

Holly Morris 8:02 And I watched this YouTube video of this man, and he was talking about ADHD, and I was like, "What?" I was like, "There's other people that are doing these things or feeling this way", and I was like, "That's me." And so yeah, I, um, went through the process of getting diagnosed, and then lo and behold, here I am. I was diagnosed.

Alex Partridge 8:22 And when you got that diagnosis, did you, were you able to look back i- into your early years and see moments where it was glaringly obvious?

Holly Morris 8:31 Oh, yeah. It was so weird, 'cause you have this, like, hour-long interview with the, um, personal hour-and-a-half long interview, and you go through all of your, like, childhood, and he was asking me specific questions about specific times.

Alex Partridge 8:42 Mm.

Holly Morris 8:42 And as I was saying it, I was like, "Oh, yeah, that does make sense why I didn't like change, or I was easily distracted but still performed, or that I was a people pleaser, or uni took me five years to graduate." I was like, "Oh, yeah, that does make sense." Because he was like, "Oh, you should be so proud of yourself for graduating and getting through it." And when he said that, I almost had tears in my eyes 'cause I was like, "Oh, do you know what? I've spent all my years taking the piss about how, ha ha, took me five years, so stupid," blah, blah, blah. That was the first time that anyone other than my parents said to me, "No, well done for sticking to it-

Alex Partridge 9:17 Mm

Holly Morris 9:18 ... and doing it because you would've really struggled with that." So it, yeah, it was just like that, having that diagnosis, it was like my brain was suddenly racking through, like, all the history books of being me and was like, oh, that's why that happened-

Alex Partridge 9:33 Mm

Holly Morris 9:33 ... and that happened, and that happened.

Alex Partridge 9:35 I, I didn't make it through university. I, I, I dropped out after, in my second year, and now looking back, I think it was because of undiagnosed ADHD. Did, did you have a particular strategy, or what was it that got you through university, do you think, looking back?

Holly Morris 9:50 Uh, oh, God, [laughs] I don't know. It was-

Alex Partridge 9:52 [laughs]

Holly Morris 9:52 I was, can I ask, like, 2012 to 2017, so it was like a long old ...

Alex Partridge 9:56 Mm.

Holly Morris 9:57 It was pushing and pushing to get through. I think what got me through was, um, I had ... So I could get extra time and stuff because I was diagnosed at the time with anxiety, so I did have a bit of help with that. So I couldn't stick to deadlines, but I could stick to the extra deadlines-

Alex Partridge 10:13 Mm

Holly Morris 10:13 ... 'cause I think I'd get an extra week or something. So my strategy was leave it right for the last minute, and then I'd start working on it at about 2:00 in the morning, and so I could then get that done for 9:00 in the morning and send it off. So everything was last minute. And I think the other thing that helped was I really enjoyed being at uni. So I kind of said to myself, "You're gonna have to get some grades if you wanna stay here. You know, I'm not gonna be able to just keep hanging about and not actually doing anything." So that really stuck at it. And I was doing psychology, and I'm really interested in the mind.

Alex Partridge 10:40 Mm.

Holly Morris 10:40 So that helped. But I think it was the fun that kept me there, and I thought, "Okay, I'm gonna have to do this little bit of work." Not this little bit, but that's how I sold it to myself to be able to stay here. But there was, it was an absolute ... It was chaos. It was not good. It was, like I said, working, starting work at 2:00 in the morning, um, failing a whole dissertation, going again. But I would tell my parents, and they were just like, "That's okay. Try again." And I kept picturing myself graduating, and when I did, even my academic advisor cried. Like, everyone [laughs] was so ... Like, so my mom, my dad, and my aca- academic advisor at the time all stood together so emotional, and I just thought, "We've all gone through it. [laughs] "

Alex Partridge 11:25 Yeah, yeah.

Holly Morris 11:25 "It's not just me."

Alex Partridge 11:26 [laughs]

Holly Morris 11:26 It's like a collective effort. And also I had a-

Alex Partridge 11:29 Mm

Holly Morris 11:30 ... um, a really good ... Well, I've still got it. I'm not saying that ... Don't know if she's gone. Um, a really good friend called Liv who also, like, carried me through. Like, she'd help me with, like, cooking my meals. Um, she'd let me ... I used to get really homesick. She'd let me sleep in her bed, and I think it was having that support unit and pushing me with those deadlines, being like-

Alex Partridge 11:47 Mm

Holly Morris 11:47 ... "Holly, you need to, like, get out of the pub and go and write your essay."

Alex Partridge 11:51 Mm.

Holly Morris 11:52 So I was just ... I think it was very lucky circumstances. If I was on my own there, I wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't ... There's no way I'd have made that happen.

Alex Partridge 12:01 It's so important, isn't it-

Holly Morris 12:01 Mm

Alex Partridge 12:01 ... to have that accountability?

Holly Morris 12:04 Yeah.

Alex Partridge 12:04 And almost, it sounds like you almost had, like, a body double with you at university, but you didn't have the knowledge of why that strategy was working. But now I imagine you can probably look back and, and be so grateful that that accountability was there.

Holly Morris 12:17 Oh, yeah.

Alex Partridge 12:17 So I'm thinking Do you think that was the reason, one of the main reasons why you got to the end of university?

Holly Morris 12:23 Yeah, 100%. I mean, my parents would say that about my best friend Liv that was there. If it wasn't for her, I wouldn't have graduated.

Alex Partridge 12:30 Mm.

Holly Morris 12:30 We all say that, like, uh, I owe her my whole degree, and it was because she would force me to go to the library. Again, like, she would cook my meals. She would say, "Okay, we need to leave the pub now 'cause we need to get home."

Alex Partridge 12:42 Mm.

Holly Morris 12:42 Um, but she worked in the same chaotic way, so we'd both stay up till 2:00 in the morning writing something up. And also I think I still didn't like letting people down, so I didn't like failing, so it was like, okay, I'm gonna be up till 9:00 in the morning, but there's no way that I'm gonna fail this exam. And I didn't care what grade I was gonna get. I just couldn't fail.

Alex Partridge 13:00 Mm.

Holly Morris 13:01 So yeah, I was very lucky that I had people that we'd... She mimicked the same chaotic behavior of how we got it done.

Alex Partridge 13:06 [laughs]

Holly Morris 13:07 And because of that, I didn't feel ashamed. We, we just bundled along-

Alex Partridge 13:13 Mm

Holly Morris 13:13 ... together, and we eventually got there. [laughs]

Alex Partridge 13:16 So important, isn't it?

Holly Morris 13:17 Mm.

Alex Partridge 13:17 I think s- that accountability, that, that finding someone who is almost like part of your tribe and, and-

Holly Morris 13:23 Yes

Alex Partridge 13:23 ... has that relatability, and you don't need to apologize about your behavior. Um, you just get each other.

Holly Morris 13:29 Yeah.

Alex Partridge 13:29 And also because of that, there's that accountability, I guess that people-pleasing and not wanting to let the person down kicks in.

Holly Morris 13:36 Yeah.

Alex Partridge 13:36 And it sounds like that was accidentally the perfect storm.

Holly Morris 13:40 Yeah. I've ju- I've never thought really. Um, I've always said, "Yeah, Liv got me through uni," but I've never thought that's probably why, and it was because, yeah, we, I mimicked her.

Alex Partridge 13:48 Mm.

Holly Morris 13:49 And she'd go to the library, and because I wanted to be with her all the time, I was like, "Well, I'll go sit in the library."

Alex Partridge 13:52 Mm.

Holly Morris 13:53 But it probably was just that I just hooked on. And also she very much understood my anxiety, panic attacks, et cetera, so it felt safe, whereas I wouldn't have stayed there. Like, in those dark moments I would just go knock on her door. And we, we had single beds, and she'd be like, "Well, I'm going to bed at 9:00, but you have, if you wanna get in my bed, you gotta get in there now."

Alex Partridge 14:11 Mm.

Holly Morris 14:11 And I'd be like, "Okay. Well, I'm a bit nervous. I'd just like [laughs] to sleep next to her."

Alex Partridge 14:15 [laughs]

Holly Morris 14:15 But it was because of that.

Alex Partridge 14:16 Mm.

Holly Morris 14:16 She made the anxiety and everything feel less-

Alex Partridge 14:18 Yeah

Holly Morris 14:19 ... so I could then concentrate on the little bit of energy I had to then go forward with my exams and stuff.

Alex Partridge 14:24 Mm. Such an important lesson there I think for anyone listening, the, the, the power of accountability and to actually-

Holly Morris 14:28 Mm

Alex Partridge 14:28 ... just the power and also finding your tribe and-

Holly Morris 14:31 Oh, yeah

Alex Partridge 14:31 ... and being around people that you don't need to apologize and, and just gets your behavior.

Holly Morris 14:36 Yeah. Very lucky.

Alex Partridge 14:37 How did you... Um, when you got diagnosed,

Alex Partridge 14:39 did your parents understand what ADHD was?

Holly Morris 14:43 So, mm, did they understand? I think, like, beforehand they did because I'd already... When I first ever mentioned I'm going for a diagnosis, I think my parents were like, "You haven't got that. You know, you were well-behaved at school." Kind of like very much like naughty boy ADHD, like-

Alex Partridge 14:58 Mm

Holly Morris 14:58 ... getting out of their chairs, which I wasn't like that. They were like, "I don't think so." But when I got diagnosed, um, again, like I said, my, my mum will, like, read up on anything that is gonna help me, so she was then like, "Oh, actually I'm recognizing these patterns."

Alex Partridge 15:10 Mm.

Holly Morris 15:11 So I don't think anyone was that surprised, but I think we were surprised at, like, my scores on it. There was something, it was like nine out of nine. And like the, like, person in me that is a perfectionist, I was like, I like that I've got top score. [laughs] Part of me's like, it's a shame that I'm that far on the spectrum, but also like-

Alex Partridge 15:26 [laughs]

Holly Morris 15:26 ... pleased I've completed it. But it kind of made a lot more sense I think-

Alex Partridge 15:30 Mm

Holly Morris 15:30 ... in our family, um, of, and the way I was behaving. So everyone was just kind of happy for me.

Alex Partridge 15:37 If you could describe

Alex Partridge 15:39 if... 'Cause there's a question I get asked a lot, if you could describe what living with ADHD feels like-

Holly Morris 15:44 Yeah

Alex Partridge 15:44 ... in a, in a nutshell, what, what would you say to someone?

Holly Morris 15:47 So I think what it's like is in my life I feel like I could go 110 miles an hour. I think, and I, I'm very conscious as well. I don't like sounding big-headed or I think I'm the shit, but-

Alex Partridge 15:59 [laughs]

Holly Morris 15:59 ... I think I could go-

Alex Partridge 16:00 You sound good.

Holly Morris 16:01 Yeah.

Alex Partridge 16:01 You, you go for it. [laughs]

Holly Morris 16:03 So just take this with a pinch of salt. I'm just doing this so that you can understand this analogy. I feel like I've got lots of ideas, I've got lots of oomph, I'm very, um, I'm, you know, I'm very emotional I think, so I can feel things very strongly. So there's a lot of potential to make things happen.

Alex Partridge 16:18 Mm.

Holly Morris 16:19 But my ADHD feels a bit like it's... You know when people, when they try to get their insurance on their car when they've just passed and they're 17, and their friends would put a black box on their car so they could only go up to, like, 30 miles an hour, they had to stick to s- the speed limit?

Alex Partridge 16:31 Mm.

Holly Morris 16:31 And everyone would take the piss out of them, be like, "Ha, ha, you've got a black box. Embarrassing." I feel like it's as if on my life there's a black box on my capability to do things because, yeah, I can have all these ideas, but I'm not necessarily gonna, um, actually go through with it because I'm gonna lose interest or get scared it's not gonna be good enough. Or I, for instance, I can go to situations and really wanna say how I feel, but then I'm scared it's gonna upset people, so I won't.

Alex Partridge 16:57 Mm.

Holly Morris 16:58 I feel like sometimes ADHD can feel like this black box that I could go 100%, 110% 'cause I've got all this creativity and just gumption and want to do things, but this ADHD sometimes is like, "You're not doing it."

Alex Partridge 17:13 Mm.

Holly Morris 17:13 But then I do also think the ADHD is what makes me 110 rather than 100, so it's so hard for me to say whether I feel particularly good or bad about it. Maybe it's just like sometimes the black box, I just, you know, I'm trying to take it off, and I think one day I will take it off, but it, right now it's still sitting on there.

Alex Partridge 17:31 Fascinating analogy. Um-

Holly Morris 17:32 Yeah, it's weird, isn't it?

Alex Partridge 17:33 Very relatable. I think that fear of criticism, rejection-

Holly Morris 17:37 Oh

Alex Partridge 17:38 ... can be such a powerful deterrent [laughs] -

Holly Morris 17:40 Yeah. [laughs] Yeah

Alex Partridge 17:41 ... in, in wanting to put yourself out there.

Holly Morris 17:43 Yeah.

Alex Partridge 17:43 But because you, you've got that, like, energy and creativity and drive, you want to-

Holly Morris 17:47 Yes

Alex Partridge 17:47 ... so you're sort of getting pulled in one way, but then that phobia, fear of the criticism and that reaction is, might be what puts the brakes on.

Holly Morris 17:56 Yeah. It is. It's completely that. The fear of being rejected, someone saying, "That's embarrassing," oh, I could never hack that.

Alex Partridge 18:04 Mm.

Holly Morris 18:05 Uh, I just, I've always, I would always, I'd always, I've always before, not so much now in the last year or so, but I've always erred on the side of caution.

Alex Partridge 18:13 Yeah.

Holly Morris 18:14 Because I was more scared of being embarrassing or being, or looking stupid. I think 'cause I've always felt a b- little bit of shame within myself 'cause I've always been a bit like, "Why can't you just do what other people can do?" I think it's I'm very self-critical, and I basically felt like everything that I'm thinking I wanna do, I'm able to do. I always was a little bit like, "Oh, I don't know if you can quite do it." I always was very self-critical of myself, and I say this now in, um, about me previously because I don't wanna be like that anymore, and I think the more I say it in this way, I will believe it. So that's why I talk about-

Alex Partridge 18:44 Mm

Holly Morris 18:44 ... myself in, like, a previous person. But yeah, I think it was the fear of things not being 100%, or not being what other people can do-

Alex Partridge 18:52 Mm

Holly Morris 18:52 ... that has always stopped me from doing things. But that's the old me. That's not me anymore, hopefully. [laughs]

Alex Partridge 18:58 That's the new and improved Holly. Come-

Holly Morris 19:00 Yeah. This is Holly 2.0 now-

Alex Partridge 19:02 Yeah

Holly Morris 19:02 ... that is stopping that. [laughs]

Alex Partridge 19:03 Apparently, scarily, people with ADHD w- are exposed to 10,000 more negative criticisms when they're really young, before the age of 10. And because of that, we have this, like, low self-esteem, and-

Holly Morris 19:14 Yeah

Alex Partridge 19:14 ... and we're very defensive when we get confronted with criticism. Um, so it's no wonder, and you know, it's no surprise to hear you say that, that y- i- it's that drive, want, but what holds you back is, is that sort of low self-esteem. Or perhaps it was the old version of you. Do you think maybe-

Holly Morris 19:30 Yeah, I mean, I still have that now. Obviously I'm trying to say a Holly 2.0 hasn't got that, but she has still got that. But it is this feeling of, I feel like for someone that is neurotypical to do a normal thing, it takes 10 processes, whereas for me to do that normal thing, it takes 100.

Alex Partridge 19:45 Mm.

Holly Morris 19:45 So it's quite, um, takes quite a lot of energy and quite a lot of oomph. But all of the energy and oomph is kind of invisible because I'm doing, it's all going on in my head. So that sometimes I feel like, you know, I wish sometimes I could just take my brain off and say to someone, "Can you just look in that, um, and see what's going on, and then you will understand why I'm behaving the way I am, or why me doing a simple task is quite hard"-

Alex Partridge 20:07 Mm

Holly Morris 20:08 ... I guess.

Alex Partridge 20:10 It does take a lot more processing power, I think, for people with ADHD, exactly like you just said, to do the same, um, the same thing, and I question sometimes how I can do the same amount as a neurotypical person, and that other person seems to have more energy in the evenings-

Holly Morris 20:26 Oh, I know

Alex Partridge 20:26 ... to do stuff like make dinner, or-

Holly Morris 20:28 Yeah

Alex Partridge 20:28 ... brush their teeth-

Holly Morris 20:30 Talk to their partner-

Alex Partridge 20:30 ... whatever it is

Holly Morris 20:31 ... that they love. [laughs]

Alex Partridge 20:31 Talk to their partner, yeah. Because w- w- we just, we're so much more prone to burnout, I think, because-

Holly Morris 20:37 Mm

Alex Partridge 20:37 ... of that extra ... And you, that's beautifully put by you. The, it's the extra energy is invisible.

Holly Morris 20:42 Yeah.

Alex Partridge 20:43 People don't see it, but the s- the, the, the, the symptom of it is chronic burnout.

Holly Morris 20:51 Yeah.

Alex Partridge 20:51 And that's noticeable.

Holly Morris 20:52 And I think also the self-es- the negative self-esteem, sometimes I'm burnt out, and I say to myself, "You're not really burnt out." I don't even believe myself with these things, and I'm like, "No." So I still sometimes this day think, "You haven't actually got anxiety and ADHD."

Alex Partridge 21:06 Mm.

Holly Morris 21:06 And I'm like, "Holly, like, you, you didn't like buck a roux at 5, but I feel like you can believe it," you know, at this point. But still to this day, sometimes I'm like, "But are you really burnt out? Can you do that little bit more?"

Alex Partridge 21:17 Mm.

Holly Morris 21:18 You know, it, I still, I don't even fully believe myself in it, which is a shame, 'cause I think then I would be a bit more respectful of myself and be like, "You are burnt out." Whereas I think there is that element, that negative talk-

Alex Partridge 21:30 Mm

Holly Morris 21:31 ... sometimes even I don't believe it, even though it's so blatantly obvious.

Alex Partridge 21:35 It's like a weird imposter syndrome with ADHD. Sometimes you just don't feel like you're worthy enough to admit that you're struggling-

Holly Morris 21:43 Yes

Alex Partridge 21:43 ... with that.

Holly Morris 21:44 Yeah.

Alex Partridge 21:44 So-

Holly Morris 21:44 And I'm like, "Well, I used to be able to do all these things, so why now 'cause I've got this diagnosis?"

Alex Partridge 21:47 Mm.

Holly Morris 21:47 And I'm like, "Well, sorry, I can't go to the social plans. I'm burnt out."

Alex Partridge 21:50 Mm.

Holly Morris 21:50 Well, you could two years ago. But then I know, yeah, I could two years ago, but also when I'd come back, I'd have a panic attack-

Alex Partridge 21:55 Mm

Holly Morris 21:55 ... or I'd be exhausted, or the next day I couldn't do anything, or I'd be crying all day. So I'm a bit like, actually, no, it's not that I've lost capabilities. It's that I'm now respect my own boundaries, and so in general, my life is happier, I guess.

Alex Partridge 22:09 Mm.

Holly Morris 22:10 Another tangent.

Alex Partridge 22:11 No, it's perfect. I think it's so ... And that comes with age, right, and, and experience and awareness-

Holly Morris 22:15 Yeah

Alex Partridge 22:15 ... as you can t- you can spot when you're perhaps approaching burnout, and, and ... 'Cause you know your body, and you know how you react when you're in a state of overwork, and when you're, when you're starting to ... And, and to burnout, and you can perhaps, I don't know, do various things to, to alter the path, and, um, maybe accept that you're into burnout, and maybe you just need a couple of days off.

Holly Morris 22:41 Mm.

Alex Partridge 22:41 You just need to lie on the sofa for an evening or a couple of days, recharge, and then come back.

Holly Morris 22:48 Try again.

Alex Partridge 22:48 Yeah.

Holly Morris 22:49 Well, I can't even lie on the sofa because sometimes I say to myself, "Have today off. Lie on the sofa." I'm lying on the sofa, and my brain's just going, "You've got so many things you need to get on with. This is a waste of time." Now, I, even my downtime, I have to plan out, and I have to be doing something. That's why I love my Nintendo Switch.

Alex Partridge 23:03 Mm.

Holly Morris 23:03 I have to be playing, or I play Sims, and I think when I play Sims, like I- my favorite expansion pack is the laundry. It was 10 pounds, and it's just that my Sims, as well as everything else they have to do, they do their laundry. But they actually do it. Like-

Alex Partridge 23:16 [laughs]

Holly Morris 23:17 ... they put it on. [laughs] They take out, and they put it on the washing line-

Alex Partridge 23:20 Mm

Holly Morris 23:20 ... and they put it away, and I'm like, this is so funny that I'm paying money to play a fake character [laughs] who's doing their washing-

Alex Partridge 23:28 [laughs]

Holly Morris 23:28 ... for my downtime.

Alex Partridge 23:29 Mm.

Holly Morris 23:30 Whereas my own washing, I'm not doing it.

Alex Partridge 23:33 Yeah.

Holly Morris 23:33 And I'm like, that's so funny that I find playing a character of someone that can be successful and do all this, that to me is relaxing.

Alex Partridge 23:40 Mm.

Holly Morris 23:40 'Cause I, I feel like it gives me a little window into that kind of normal life.

Alex Partridge 23:45 Mm.

Holly Morris 23:45 Neurotypical life.

Alex Partridge 23:47 So interesting, 'cause I, I really struggle with downtime, and you've just really summarized that nicely. Um, and perhaps that comes from our feeling of the low self-esteem. We always feel like we have to be doing something in order to feel like we're, we're being active or wanting to achieve something.

Holly Morris 24:03 Mm. I think it's particularly now because I'm now, I, I make videos full-time. This is my dream job.

Alex Partridge 24:09 Mm.

Holly Morris 24:09 I'm so scared someone's gonna take it away from me because I feel like I don't ... I think that with that low self-esteem, you feel like you don't deserve it, and I'm so scared someone's gonna turn around one day and be like That's it. You're not interesting anymore. Goodbye

Alex Partridge 24:20 Mm

Holly Morris 24:20 So I feel like I need to make the most of it now. I need... Everything has to be immediate, so it's hard to take time off. Whereas I think in my previous jobs where I wasn't as passionate or as, like, s- emotionally invested, probably that downtime I could do, because I always felt like it was being taken away from me in the job.

Alex Partridge 24:36 Mm.

Holly Morris 24:36 I was like, "Oh, I just wanna be lying down." Whereas now, I so badly... I'm so grateful for what I've got, I'm so scared someone's gonna take it away, that any time that is downtime, I'm like, "Waste of time. Need-

Alex Partridge 24:47 Yeah

Holly Morris 24:47 ... to get back to business"

Alex Partridge 24:48 Yeah.

Holly Morris 24:49 Pointless, because then the videos I put out are just flat, because people are like, I'm like, the light's on, but no one's home.

Alex Partridge 24:54 Mm.

Holly Morris 24:55 So it's a, yeah, it's a bit of a lose-lose situation, that one.

Alex Partridge 24:57 Mm. Your Sims story, um, with the washing machine-

Holly Morris 25:02 Yeah [laughs]

Alex Partridge 25:02 ... I think it's a perfect, perfect

Alex Partridge 25:04 transition into our Washing machine of Woes.

Holly Morris 25:06 There you go.

Alex Partridge 25:06 And we'll-

Holly Morris 25:06 You're welcome

Alex Partridge 25:07 ... we'll see what my ADHD Chatter Instagram community has thrown at us this week.

Holly Morris 25:12 Yeah?

Alex Partridge 25:12 Um, so I'll reach in.

Holly Morris 25:16 I was hoping there was gonna be some sound effects on that washing machine. [laughs]

Alex Partridge 25:19 You've just given me an idea for next time. I'll, uh-

Holly Morris 25:21 [laughs]

Alex Partridge 25:23 [laughs] So this week, the Washing machine of Woe throws at us, "I think I'm getting better at this, but I get so impatient waiting for people to finish their sentences, especially when it's obvious that what the end of the sentence is going to, gonna be." Do you relate to that at all?

Holly Morris 25:45 [laughs] Yeah, I do.

Alex Partridge 25:48 I do, a lot.

Holly Morris 25:49 It's so bad. Yeah, the amount of times that someone's talking, like, and I'm like, you know, and I, I want the destination, not the journey.

Alex Partridge 25:57 Mm.

Holly Morris 25:57 Like, I do not like... And do you know what the worst thing is, I think, when people tell you the punchline of the story, and then weave back to how they-

Alex Partridge 26:04 [laughs]

Holly Morris 26:04 ... got to the punchline.

Alex Partridge 26:05 Yeah.

Holly Morris 26:05 And I'm like, "You've already told me the dramatic moment."

Alex Partridge 26:07 Mm.

Holly Morris 26:07 Like, if you wanna keep me engaged, you need to go in with your journey, and then tell me the dramatic moment. 'Cause... And I do think, I feel like I can already, I've assessed people and how they behave. I've taught myself how to be in social situations-

Alex Partridge 26:18 Mm

Holly Morris 26:18 ... so much that I know what's coming next.

Alex Partridge 26:21 Yeah.

Holly Morris 26:21 And I'm like, "Get on with it."

Alex Partridge 26:23 So much.

Holly Morris 26:23 But in those moments, I just feel like, I... So I'll play with my ring a lot and stuff, and I just say to myself, um, "Okay, Holly, right now you're playing a character of someone that can listen." [laughs] So I play that character for like two minutes-

Alex Partridge 26:35 Mm

Holly Morris 26:35 ... until they're done. And then I'm like, "My turn. Anyway, blah, blah, blah, blah."

Alex Partridge 26:39 Yeah, yeah.

Holly Morris 26:39 [laughs]

Alex Partridge 26:40 So relatable. I think, I think neurotypical people perhaps listen to ADHD people speaking, and, and they're getting frustrated at why we're not getting to the point-

Holly Morris 26:49 Yeah [laughs]

Alex Partridge 26:49 ... and why we're going off in tangents-

Holly Morris 26:51 Yeah

Alex Partridge 26:51 ... and then eventually come to some conclusion that is not in any way related to where we started. Whereas for us, it's the opposite.

Holly Morris 26:56 Yeah.

Alex Partridge 26:57 We're getting frustrated at them not being able to... At, at the speed it takes them to finish a, a single sentence.

Holly Morris 27:03 Yeah. And it's just the short attention span. I think it's just, it's not... I think it's also socializing as a whole, talking, the to and fro of it.

Alex Partridge 27:10 Mm.

Holly Morris 27:10 It's so, um, oh, what's the word? It's so predictable that it is a bit boring, I suppose.

Alex Partridge 27:17 Mm.

Holly Morris 27:17 Like, I'm very... And it's also, I think you sometimes have a lot of like niceties, et cetera, before you get to the point, whereas I'm very much like, I wanna know your deepest, darkest secret, even though I met you 20 seconds ago, and I wanna know it right now.

Alex Partridge 27:27 Mm.

Holly Morris 27:28 So I think that's why we struggle with like, I think conversations naturally, they warm up, don't they, and then they get to the point, whereas I do not warm up. I'm just in-

Alex Partridge 27:34 Straight in with the trauma

Holly Morris 27:36 ... I'm straight in, absolutely-

Alex Partridge 27:37 Yeah

Holly Morris 27:37 ... with the trauma.

Alex Partridge 27:37 [laughs]

Holly Morris 27:37 And like, and I also think I so badly want everyone to understand me so entirely.

Alex Partridge 27:42 Mm.

Holly Morris 27:42 I don't want anything to be misunderstood or misconstrued. So then that does mean I do all this stuff. So I really struggle with talking with adults. [laughs] I don't know who I mean by that age of adults, but adults, I just feel like so much talking is done, but nothing is said.

Alex Partridge 27:57 Mm.

Holly Morris 27:57 And for me, I'm like, "No, s- pack it in. I'm not, I can't."

Alex Partridge 28:02 Mm.

Holly Morris 28:02 It hurts. Do you know what I mean? Like, I can physically feel it.

Alex Partridge 28:05 Yeah.

Holly Morris 28:05 It's like alarm bells are going on in my chest. I'm like-

Alex Partridge 28:08 Yeah

Holly Morris 28:08 ... "Get to the point."

Alex Partridge 28:09 Uh, yeah, definitely. It's almost like the dopamine, the reward is, is in the detail, in the emotional stuff.

Holly Morris 28:14 [laughs]

Alex Partridge 28:15 And, and it's almost like a, a, a frustration of the delay of getting there.

Holly Morris 28:19 [laughs] Yeah. It's, yeah.

Alex Partridge 28:21 And that's what the small talk is.

Holly Morris 28:22 You're taking too long.

Alex Partridge 28:23 It's like a, it's interruption of our hyperfocus. And that, our hyperfocus is their story, their, the details of them, and all the small talk is like an interruption.

Holly Morris 28:32 Particularly as well, if you're at, like, a dinner party, and the people over there are talking about something more interesting.

Alex Partridge 28:36 Yes.

Holly Morris 28:36 And because obviously you can't focus, can you? Like, I will, I'm listening to that story and I'm listening to your story.

Alex Partridge 28:41 Mm.

Holly Morris 28:41 So you kind of think to yourself, like, I get that sometimes. I'm, I'm willing this bit to end so that we can then naturally, like, be like, "Oh, so anyway, as you were saying" [laughs]

Alex Partridge 28:51 [laughs]

Holly Morris 28:52 And I'm like, "Wish you could just focus. Like, just ignore them."

Alex Partridge 28:54 Mm.

Holly Morris 28:54 "That's not your story. That's not to do with you." But I'm like, oh, I'm itching to get involved.

Alex Partridge 28:59 Yeah.

Holly Morris 29:00 It's very hard.

Alex Partridge 29:01 Yeah.

Holly Morris 29:01 It takes a lot of practice.

Alex Partridge 29:02 Many arguments or disagreements in restaurants caused by similar situations. [laughs]

Holly Morris 29:07 Oh, so bad.

Alex Partridge 29:08 Are you listening? Did you hear what I just said?

Holly Morris 29:10 [laughs] Absolutely not.

Alex Partridge 29:12 Yeah.

Holly Morris 29:12 I can't... Yeah. P- pubs, and particularly if there's a drama or an argument going on-

Alex Partridge 29:17 Mm

Holly Morris 29:17 ... 'cause I feel like I need to go and solve it, even though it's absolutely nothing to do with me. I, I can't relax in those situations. Like, my partner, Rory, he knows that. He knows that if we're at dinner at something, the worst is like Wagamama. It's like, if we're in there and we're in one of those long tables, I'm, I'm suddenly at a dinner party, and I'm, everyone here, I'm in their conversation, and Rory, you could be telling me that you wanna marry me-

Alex Partridge 29:41 Yeah

Holly Morris 29:41 ... and I'm still not gonna be able to focus. [laughs]

Alex Partridge 29:43 [laughs]

Holly Morris 29:44 So yeah, I completely get that. It's awful.

Alex Partridge 29:47 With your relationship,

Alex Partridge 29:49 do you think ADHD shows up in a positive way?

Holly Morris 29:55 Uh, does it show up in a positive way? It, it, I think it's a double-edged sword. I think it shows up... I'll do the negative first-

Alex Partridge 30:00 Mm

Holly Morris 30:00 ... so we can end on a high. Um, I think negatively, I feel quite vulnerable in a relationship because before I could always then, like, go home and hide a little bit, whereas now obviously I live with my boyfriend, so he's gonna see all parts of me. And luckily, I've been a very big, very big? I've been a very good picker, and he is very calm, and we're very opposite. So I think he brings the calmness and the, um, stableness and the, like, supportiveness.

Alex Partridge 30:28 Mm.

Holly Morris 30:28 And I bring the high energy and the excitement, but w- along with that, I also bring the, like- Rather manicness sometimes, or the feeling misunderstood by the world, et cetera. So I think sometimes it can be a struggle for him to really... Sometimes I feel like he goes through it a bit, 'cause I'm like, "Oh, you're so, like, neurotypical and just, like, steady."

Alex Partridge 30:49 Mm.

Holly Morris 30:49 I feel sometimes I've come along just like a bull in a china shop, and I'm just like, "Rah, rah, rah, rah, rah," and I think, "Oh, you could just have a really nice sweet girl that was just gonna be calm. Yeah, that'd match you." But I also don't think he'd like that. I think he'd be bored.

Alex Partridge 31:02 Mm.

Holly Morris 31:02 So I tell myself that. But I think on the positive side, I think people with ADHD, we're very emotional, so I think the amount that we love people is just, like... I actually be careful even talking about him, 'cause it'll make me tear up, but it's like, it's this constant I would do anything for him. So I think at the same time, yeah, you do get a bit of hecticness, but I think it's like at the same time you get someone that is so in your corner at all times, and is so completely just besotted. It's like you're just always like that.

Alex Partridge 31:30 Mm.

Holly Morris 31:31 It's embarrassing actually saying that on camera. I hope he doesn't watch that.

Alex Partridge 31:33 [laughs]

Holly Morris 31:33 I don't like you that much. [laughs]

Alex Partridge 31:37 It's so important to have that awareness, uh, within relationships, especially when ADHD is involved. Um, because there are s- I think some aspects of ADHD that if there aren't an awareness, it can be a bit of a car crash in certain situations. And, um, and with rejection sensitive dysphoria, um, is there an awareness with your partner around that topic?

Holly Morris 32:00 I think I'm very lucky, because I also go to therapy once a week.

Alex Partridge 32:03 Mm.

Holly Morris 32:03 So I, I don't... I think it's... You've got be... I think sometimes you've got to be very careful with ADHD or any- anything really, with not using your partner as someone that you dump everything on. 'Cause I think it'd be a lot. I also couldn't handle someone just dumping everything on me. So I think I'm quite lucky and very privileged in the fact that I can go and talk to someone else-

Alex Partridge 32:26 Mm

Holly Morris 32:26 ... so then I can also learn the best way to talk about things with my partner. But I think the key thing I find in the relationship with ADHD is complete honesty. So sometimes, so say we're in a rush to go somewhere, I'll be really stressed, and I will be not... probably, like, just a little bit moody. Just b- not, not 'cause of anyone, just because I've had to rush, and so my brain is going a million miles an hour. And in those moments I'll say to Rory, "Right now I'm not in a very good mood. It's not personal to you, it's just 'cause I've had to rush 'cause I've badly time managed. By the time we get to the station, I will have calmed down." He says, "Okay." He says, "Do you want me to talk to you or not?" And I'll say yes or no, and then we'll do that. So everything is honesty. And I'll say to him, "Can you please be honest with me about whether I'm not doing enough of the chores and stuff?" And he'll be honest with me. But also, I think something I'm very lucky with is that he-- I know he takes on a little bit more than me, and he completely believes me, and he believes that I can't do certain things or help with certain things. And I think that is the key thing I find in a relationship, is having someone that you're honest with and that truly believes you.

Alex Partridge 33:30 Mm.

Holly Morris 33:31 It's a safe space to say, "I'm really sorry, I know it's my turn to do the dishwasher, but I just, right now, I really can't." And he doesn't think, "Oh, you're just lazy."

Alex Partridge 33:41 Mm.

Holly Morris 33:42 He's just like, "Okay." And I'm like, "Okay, I'll do it next time."

Alex Partridge 33:48 It's, it's such a relatable s- story, because I think various aspects of ADHD, if not understood, can look like laziness.

Holly Morris 33:58 Yeah. Oh.

Alex Partridge 33:59 Especially, like, the

Alex Partridge 34:00 overwhelm. Do you think there's a- aspects of how ADHD presents in you that can sometimes look like laziness?

Holly Morris 34:07 [laughs] That's, yeah, absolutely.

Alex Partridge 34:10 Mm.

Holly Morris 34:10 Like, I think a lot of things about me could completely be seen as laziness. And this is the other thing. Even in my own head sometimes I'm like, "Is this ADHD or am I actually being categorically lazy right now?" And I, I don't know.

Alex Partridge 34:23 Mm.

Holly Morris 34:23 I think... But I'm very aware of it, and I just, I'm realistic with how much I can do, and I just know that everything has to be planned for me to make it happen.

Alex Partridge 34:31 Mm.

Holly Morris 34:32 But I also know that naturally I am a lazy person. But also lazy people are actually more intelligent, because they get more... Something like you get more done but in less time or whatever. Like, you use your energy wisely.

Alex Partridge 34:43 Mm.

Holly Morris 34:43 Like, when I think about myself when I used to be in my jobs, like, I was definitely... I'd do a blitz of 20 minutes of really hardcore work, but I knew I could make that look like I'd done four hours, 'cause it was so, like-

Alex Partridge 34:53 Mm

Holly Morris 34:54 ... quick. So I would just be, like, chilling for a bit. So, um, it's, it's really hard for me to pinpoint that. I know a lot of the time it probably appear that I'm being very lazy. Um, but it's... I think it, it is hard, isn't it? It's hard to ever know, 'cause I think I'm still at, kind of sometimes still in this, like, weird denial about-

Alex Partridge 35:12 Mm

Holly Morris 35:12 ... who I am or why I can't do things. But I just have to say to myself, even though I feel like I'm being lazy, that I'm try- I think it's just saying to myself, I think, "I'm trying my best," or, like, I'm aware, I'm very aware, okay, I haven't, I haven't emptied the dishwasher this many times.

Alex Partridge 35:27 Mm.

Holly Morris 35:27 Or I'll be like, okay, Rory's cooked five times this week. I think it's just checking that and either discussing it and being like, "Oh, by the way, I know I haven't done that, by the way," or being like, "I can't do that because of this."

Alex Partridge 35:39 Mm.

Holly Morris 35:39 But, uh, I mean, the la- yeah, the lazy bit I haven't, unfortunately, yet got any wisdom for you. [laughs]

Alex Partridge 35:46 I think it's super interesting, 'cause I think there is a crossover. If there was like a Venn diagram of laziness in one circle-

Holly Morris 35:52 Yeah

Alex Partridge 35:52 ... and in the other circle it's the chronic overwhelm and the decision paralysis.

Holly Morris 35:57 Yes.

Alex Partridge 35:58 And they, they, they meet in the middle, and that decision paralysis can look like laziness, 'cause it can result in you just lying on the sofa doom scrolling. And to-

Holly Morris 36:06 Yes

Alex Partridge 36:07 ... the onlooker that looks like you're procrastinating, you're-

Holly Morris 36:10 Yeah

Alex Partridge 36:10 ... not doing anything. But actually, you can't do anything [laughs] because you're in such a state of, of decision paralysis and overwhelm in that moment. Um, and without that awareness with- with- within your partner, within your, within your relationship and other a- areas of your life, that can often cause conflict, 'cause it can build resentment. But actually-

Holly Morris 36:29 Yeah

Alex Partridge 36:29 ... when they realize that you're just in a s- in a, in a state in that particular moment of overwhelm and decision paralysis, then, then there's leeway there Of understanding

Holly Morris 36:40 I think that's what it is. I think it's that we're very honest with each other, and it's very, it's an open dialogue. And I, and also I think I try and, you know, I try and teach him as much as I can. Every time I come back from a therapy session, he'll always ask me, "What did you talk about today?" And we'll go through everything I spoke about. So I think actually in that time, kind of Rory is getting some second... I should start charging him, actually. He's getting some secondhand-

Alex Partridge 37:01 [laughs]

Holly Morris 37:01 ... [laughs] um, therapy from it.

Alex Partridge 37:02 Yeah.

Holly Morris 37:02 And so I can say like, "Oh, I've learned this," or, "This is the reason I do this." Or I'll send him, like, short TikTok videos of, like-

Alex Partridge 37:08 Mm

Holly Morris 37:08 ... this is the reason I'm like that. But I think it is just under all that, like, same with if Rory told me anything or how he was feeling, I would just 100% believe him, and I know that he just 100% trusts me and believes me, that I, I'm not trying to shortchange him. I'm not trying to get away with things.

Alex Partridge 37:24 Mm.

Holly Morris 37:25 You know? 'Cause I'm not enjoying it. There's something I read that was really interesting is that lazy people actually enjoy relaxing. Whereas do we ever enjoy it? Like, do you ever enjoy that time that you're not putting the washing on or not putting the dishwasher on? 'Cause you're absolutely, like, beside yourself with the guilt of what you should be doing.

Alex Partridge 37:39 Mm.

Holly Morris 37:39 Lazy people would enjoy that. Like, I'm not enjoying when I'm lying on my phone. Like, that, that isn't enjoyable.

Alex Partridge 37:46 Mm.

Holly Morris 37:46 So I'm not, I'm not getting anything out of this, you know?

Alex Partridge 37:50 Mm.

Holly Morris 37:50 And he's definitely not getting anything out of it. So I think it's just, I mean, I don't know how he does it, but he does just believe me, luckily. Probably more than I do believe me. [laughs]

Alex Partridge 38:00 [laughs] I ask all my

Alex Partridge 38:03 guests to-

Holly Morris 38:03 Yeah

Alex Partridge 38:04 ... tell me what one item represents ADHD in their life, and you-

Holly Morris 38:10 [laughs]

Alex Partridge 38:11 ... said-

Holly Morris 38:12 Yeah

Alex Partridge 38:12 ... a T-shirt that says, "I love Zumba," on it.

Holly Morris 38:14 [laughs]

Alex Partridge 38:16 I'll give that-

Holly Morris 38:16 I mean, it's not the, it's not the T-shirt saying, "I love Zumba." It is the Zumba.

Alex Partridge 38:19 I'll pass that.

Holly Morris 38:20 [laughs]

Alex Partridge 38:20 Ooh, gosh. I'll pass that to you.

Holly Morris 38:21 Thanks. There you go. [laughs]

Alex Partridge 38:23 Perfect. What, what, how, how does Zumba play a part in your life?

Holly Morris 38:30 So Zumba, [laughs] just seems funny saying it out loud now.

Alex Partridge 38:34 [laughs]

Holly Morris 38:34 [laughs] You know, this big moment that I've had, this epiphany, Zumba basically changed my life.

Alex Partridge 38:41 Mm.

Holly Morris 38:42 I think it did. Because I went to a Zumba class just because, um, my schedule's changed 'cause now I make content full time. So for the first time ever I could go to a class at 10:00 in the morning, and I was like, wow, this is so, like, novel. So I was like, I'm gonna go to Zumba. I thought it'd be quite fun. There'll be, like, stepping and clapping. I went to this class at my local leisure center. I got in there, and the instructor got to the front. The music came on. It was so loud, deafeningly loud. There was also a woman, um, to the side. She had a belt on that had, like, little bells. It was jingling, and she had a horn and a whistle she was blowing. And they had all these manically loud songs. And then the dance moves were just, like, shaking your ass, doing this. Everyone's, like, shimmying. Like, and it's such a mixed group of people. You've got 80-year-olds in there. You've got, like, genuine 80, like the shimmy. It's just kinda like-

Alex Partridge 39:31 [laughs]

Holly Morris 39:31 ... that. Or you've got, like, people that are my age or, like, people that were middle-aged. And I suddenly had this sense of, like, complete euphoria that [laughs] doing this, like, move, whatever the stupid moves are, and I'm probably, like, doing this. And I could feel these tears coming in my eyes, and I was like, "Oh my God." I was like, "I'm so happy right now. I'm, like, on another planet-ly happy."

Alex Partridge 39:54 Mm.

Holly Morris 39:54 And I was like, I can't start crying because this is gonna look weird, but I just felt this euphoria. And I thought to myself, "When have I ever felt this?" And I was like, oh, maybe at, like, a concert or at a friend's wedding, or when I've given my mum and dad a nice present and they've got upset, and it, I got that same, like-

Alex Partridge 40:10 Mm

Holly Morris 40:10 ... oomph. And then I just, I think it, it was when I saw the good side of Zum- [laughs] I'd only seen the good side of Zumba 'cause I was crying about it. I saw the good side of ADHD 'cause I was like, I can't imagine that many other people come to their local leisure center for a Zumba class and have got tears in their eyes 'cause they are so happy. Like, and I go to that class every week, and no matter what mood I'm in, I go in there and I leave it and I just feel unstoppable. And I think it's because it's an interesting mixture of you, um, like, physically, um, you're doing something, so you're getting those endorphins. Also, mentally I'm stimulated. I don't like HIIT classes. They're just a panic attack waiting to happen. Other things that you're not thinking, I get bored. I wasn't bored. My brain was occupied, so I didn't have the overwhelming chatter I've always got.

Alex Partridge 40:55 Mm.

Holly Morris 40:55 My body was occupied, and I was doing something that was good, and I'd never been able to get those highs from good things like that. And I think in a very roundabout way, Zumba made me realize the positives of having ADHD, and it made me accept my brain-

Alex Partridge 41:11 Mm

Holly Morris 41:11 ... and be like, "But look how good you can feel in these little moments."

Alex Partridge 41:16 It's incredible.

Holly Morris 41:17 That's it.

Alex Partridge 41:17 I think there's so much to be said for that story. I think you've summarized perfectly how movement can help and how just connecting with some activity.

Holly Morris 41:28 Yeah.

Alex Partridge 41:28 I think that's different for, for everyone, but there, there is always something that can give you dopamine and, and that rush and that feel-good energy-

Holly Morris 41:34 Yeah

Alex Partridge 41:35 ... um, in a, in a healthy way. And you said the, that it made you realize the positives of ADHD. In, for, for your life, for

Alex Partridge 41:43 you, what, what do you see as the positives of ADHD in your life?

Holly Morris 41:48 I think the main positive is I think I've got an ability to connect with people-

Alex Partridge 41:51 Mm

Holly Morris 41:51 ... because ADHD, I th- I don't know, maybe you'd know why this is, but I feel like it makes us very honest or very, uh, very much like an open book. I will say things that other people would be like, "Ooh, I wouldn't share that." I've just got this deep yearning to connect with people, and I don't care if it makes me look stupid or makes me look emotional. Now I don't.

Alex Partridge 42:13 Mm.

Holly Morris 42:14 But I do think I can connect to people very well, and that's probably why now my job is making content because I hope the people that watch my videos, if you then meet me, I'm the same person because I just have this... I, I don't know. I just, I'm so interested in people and why they behave the way they do and how their brain works, and I just wanna have this really close connection with everyone, and I will share every detail about my life with everyone. And I quite like that, I think, about me I really need to get better at talking positively about myself, 'cause I'm just thinking, "Oh, God-

Alex Partridge 42:43 [laughs]

Holly Morris 42:44 ... there's nothing up my ass." Um, and I also think probably the creativity. I think, I think about things in a weird way. I think my brain obviously fires off in an odd way, which helps me come up with wacky ideas, um, which probably help me in my job and stuff like that. Um, trying to think anything else. I think that's the main thing. It's the connections and the creativity.

Alex Partridge 43:02 Mm.

Holly Morris 43:03 And, oh, and the impulsiveness, the willingness to take risks.

Alex Partridge 43:06 Mm.

Holly Morris 43:06 I think that, um, has been very helpful to me. I do think I come from a very privileged position in saying that. Like, I do think obviously the, you know, the cards have all been in my favor to be able to then take these risks. But a lot of my friends are like, "I'd never do that", whereas I, if my brain says we're doing something, we're doing it.

Alex Partridge 43:24 Mm.

Holly Morris 43:25 And I think that has always ... I mean, sometimes it's obviously absolutely crashed and burned, but I've never stopped. [laughs] It's not like I crash and burn at doing something impulsive and I stop doing it. I'm like, "Anyway, onto the next impulsive thing." I don't learn from my mistakes-

Alex Partridge 43:37 Mm

Holly Morris 43:37 ... which is quite good in ways, because I will keep pushing for more. So I think that's why my life now is so, um, it feels very abundant because I've kept taking those risks and pushing for more.

Alex Partridge 43:47 Mm.

Holly Morris 43:47 Which I wouldn't have done, I don't think, if I didn't have the ADHD that is like [laughs] the, the warning, like the logical brain is not so much being like, "Maybe don't do that." The other part of my brain's like, "Ignore them. Let's just do it."

Alex Partridge 43:58 There's such a trend, going on from what you just said about that risk-taking and the inability to let a failure or something that doesn't quite work out, like, phase you too much.

Holly Morris 44:11 Yeah.

Alex Partridge 44:12 And actually you're just, meh, onto the next thing.

Holly Morris 44:14 Yeah.

Alex Partridge 44:14 And I think that, what you've just described, is the main reason why ADHD can lead to high achievement, because the height, the, the bit that ends up being the high achievement is actually the tip of the iceberg, and what's under the sea is all-

Holly Morris 44:28 Yeah

Alex Partridge 44:28 ... the stuff that didn't work out.

Holly Morris 44:29 [laughs]

Alex Partridge 44:29 But because we have this inability to let it phase us.

Holly Morris 44:31 Yeah. [laughs]

Alex Partridge 44:32 Whereas a lot of people would have a failure and they're, "Ooh, okay, I'm not gonna try again because that's, that's too, the pain is too much." But our inability to dwell on failure, I think, is such an asset.

Holly Morris 44:43 Yeah.

Alex Partridge 44:43 Such a strength.

Holly Morris 44:44 It is. I think we're very adaptable.

Alex Partridge 44:46 Mm.

Holly Morris 44:46 So init- it's not like, it's not straight away. Initially, if something goes wrong, I am beside myself. I'm not saying that I'm just like, "Oh, that went wrong. Whatever." I'm, like, wailing.

Alex Partridge 44:53 Mm.

Holly Morris 44:54 But give me a week, I've forgotten that's even happened, and I'm like, "Anyway, onto the next big thing." So I think that is the benefit is I think we're, as much as we feel everything very deeply, nothing lasts a very long time with ADHD.

Alex Partridge 45:06 Mm.

Holly Morris 45:06 It's very much constantly changing, so that probably makes us quite adaptable.

Alex Partridge 45:09 Would you say that that is, is the same with breakups, that inability to ... All that intense sadness, but then actually shortly afterwards you're, like, over it?

Holly Morris 45:20 Yeah. [laughs] I think so. I look back and I think, like, when I was 18, I had my first ever breakup and I was, like, beside myself. And I always tell this story that I was so upset that I remember once saying to my mom, like, "I can't stand up. I'm too sad, Mom." [laughs]

Alex Partridge 45:34 [laughs]

Holly Morris 45:35 "I have to stand up." And I wouldn't stop crying, so much so that my mom actually bought me a cat on Gumtree. She was like, "Anything that will stop you crying, here's a cat."

Alex Partridge 45:42 Mm.

Holly Morris 45:42 And I was like, okay, that ... I got back with him after that year and my mom was fuming. She was like, "Now you've got this cat and you-

Alex Partridge 45:47 [laughs]

Holly Morris 45:47 ... you've also still got him." Um, but we had this breakup. Absolutely couldn't-- I thought, "I'm never gonna survive." And then literally two weeks later, I went to uni and I was just euphoric. I was like, "Oh my God, this is so fun. I love being single. I love chatting. I like m-meeting new people" and I was over it. It's, all my breakups are the same. Absolute wailing for like a week, two weeks, and then literally a couple of weeks later, um, back, you know, looking at this whole new life I've now got. I've got all this time.

Alex Partridge 46:19 Mm.

Holly Morris 46:19 I'm close with all my, I've got this new closeness with my friends. I'm getting all the, you know, ADHD, we're quite often attention seekers. I'm getting all this attention.

Alex Partridge 46:27 Mm.

Holly Morris 46:28 It's like there's always, at the time you can't see it, but two weeks after anything that happens to someone with ADHD, there's a silver lining, and we can just run with it. So yeah, I do think with breakups, it's just this ... You can't see it at the start, though. Like, if you told me that when I was first breaking up, I'd have been like, "No way." But anything that's ever gone wrong for me, immediate sadness and then my life's always just, like, gone up because we just adapt. So I'm just like, "Anyway, I'm bored of crying now. You know, get me on Hinge."

Alex Partridge 46:57 [laughs]

Holly Morris 46:58 Not that I'm ... I would not do that now. [laughs]

Alex Partridge 46:59 [laughs]

Holly Morris 47:00 I think not now.

Alex Partridge 47:01 Yeah.

Holly Morris 47:02 You're all right, Rory. You're safe. [laughs]

Alex Partridge 47:05 Very relatable. Very relatable. Um, do you think there's some bits w- when you're in that moment of sadness, intense, almost I think more intense than a lot of people, but we get over it. But do you think after we've gotten over it, something like a memory, a song, a smell, whatever, can pull us back into that, and momentarily we can almost just randomly burst into tears in the middle of the street if, if a song reminds us of that sadness?

Holly Morris 47:32 Yeah.

Alex Partridge 47:32 Do you relate to that at all?

Holly Morris 47:34 Yeah. Well, I think everything's very intense, isn't it?

Alex Partridge 47:35 Mm.

Holly Morris 47:35 So I think we, with any memory, we connect all of our senses to it. So w- we don't ... I think life as a whole is intense. Every sight, smell, anything we do, it all feels intense. So when it comes to relationships and stuff like that, that is very intense as well. But I do think that's what happens. Yeah, you cry at a song. But the thing is, I found that. I remember on the radio, I remember, um, Somebody That I Used to Know came on by Got-

Alex Partridge 48:00 Gotye. Okay. Yeah, yeah

Holly Morris 48:00 ... Go- Gotye, yeah, in the car with my mom, crying, and then two songs later it was, like, Lily Allen's Smile, and then I was, like, singing along like, "Oh, yeah, smile. Like, life's gonna be good."

Alex Partridge 48:12 Mm.

Holly Morris 48:12 And so I do-- I, what I say to myself with my ADHD, 'cause I know that I get that with lots of things. Like, I don't particularly like Christmas. I feel like there's, like, a window of Christmas now where, like, you know, like, a lot of my grandparents are old. There's no, like, new kids in the family. So it's, it's not got that same, like, excitement.

Alex Partridge 48:27 Mm.

Holly Morris 48:28 So I get ... I right now find the Christmas songs quite upsetting because of that connection. So it's like everything is ... But I just ... Sorry, I've gone on a complete tangent there. But basically back to the, like, breakups or songs or feelings. I basically find that it's very fleeting, and I just tell myself that. So if I do cry over a song or if I did then I'd know that two more songs would come on-

Alex Partridge 48:49 Mm

Holly Morris 48:49 ... and then I'd be, like, crying with happiness about a concert I'd been to or a moment that I'd shared with a friend.

Alex Partridge 48:57 It's almost like you can only focus on what's in front of you at any particular point. Like, you're constantly living in the now.

Holly Morris 49:04 Yeah.

Alex Partridge 49:04 So if there was a sad song playing on the radio, in that moment you can hyperfocus on that because it's happening now-

Holly Morris 49:11 Yeah

Alex Partridge 49:11 ... and you can get very sad. But then, like you said, two minutes later Lily Allen's Smile can come on, and suddenly you're hyperfocusing on that now-

Holly Morris 49:17 Yeah

Alex Partridge 49:17 ... so you're happy.

Holly Morris 49:18 Yeah. I-

Alex Partridge 49:19 So you've got-

Holly Morris 49:19 It is. I think our brains, um, are massive storytellers.

Alex Partridge 49:23 Mm.

Holly Morris 49:23 So that's the problem, is that when that song comes on, our brain is such a loud inner narrative that the song, um, the story is coming along with that song. But obviously if the story g- if that book gets shut-

Alex Partridge 49:32 Mm

Holly Morris 49:32 ... because a song's gone, it stops.

Alex Partridge 49:34 Mm.

Holly Morris 49:34 So I used to find before I went to bed I'd get quite emotional because my brain would go on a story of, like, my life or something's going wrong-

Alex Partridge 49:41 Mm

Holly Morris 49:41 ... or people getting older. But then I learned with therapy, like, you don't have to read the whole book. Like, you can stop the story. You're telling the story. You can just say, "Let's stop that story." And so now that's what I do. So if it's a good story, I keep going, whereas this bad one I'm like, "Is this story helping you? No." So you sack it off.

Alex Partridge 49:58 Mm. How's your mental health today?

Holly Morris 50:02 I'd say it's a mixed bag. I'd say it's better than it ever has been in all my years of life because I, you know, I do a lot of therapy. I understand myself more, and I've, um, I'm gradually teaching people what I'm like. But I do think after years of masking, it's quite hard to adapt to this new life of I'm not this big, extroverted, always up for it, fun person that I used to be because I'm protecting myself and setting these boundaries. So I feel like my brain at the minute is a bit like I don't know where we stand. So I feel like sometimes it's ... I do feel like, again, like that caterpillar to butterfly, I'm becoming myself, but with that you lose quite a lot at the same time. So I'd say on the whole it's ... I- mental health's difficult 'cause I can talk about my general life, which I think at the minute is incredible, but your mental health, it doesn't ... I kinda thought once I'd made the success and I'd become this creative I'd always wanted to be, like, how could I ever be anxious or down when I've got my dream life? But it's funny, mental health doesn't care [laughs] that you've got your dream life.

Alex Partridge 51:01 Mm.

Holly Morris 51:01 It will still catch you, and it will be that small day-to-day thing that, like, that will never go. But I think it's actually just your ability to, um, adapt afterwards.

Alex Partridge 51:12 Mm.

Holly Morris 51:12 And now if I have a blip, my blips now will last about 20 minutes or so. No, that's, that's bullshit. They'll last about a couple of hours, but they won't affect the rest of my day.

Alex Partridge 51:22 Mm.

Holly Morris 51:23 So I think when I was younger, um, a panic attack or a blip would affect a week, then the blips would affect, affect a day, and now my blips can only affect sometimes a couple of hours. So my mental health doesn't, it doesn't absorb my whole life anymore.

Alex Partridge 51:39 Mm.

Holly Morris 51:39 It just appears every now and then. And I just say to myself, you know, I'm on this, like, river of life, and it's just sometimes you hit rocks, sometimes you've got peaceful sea.

Alex Partridge 51:48 Mm.

Holly Morris 51:48 If you think too much about it and you're like, "Oh my God, I'm in a rocky patch," you'll stay in it. I have to say to myself, "I've felt like shit and felt better before. I will feel like shit, and I will feel better again."

Alex Partridge 51:58 Mm.

Holly Morris 52:00 Sorry, I don't know. I had so many analogies in my head there. [laughs] God.

Alex Partridge 52:04 No, it's so interesting.

Holly Morris 52:05 It went well.

Alex Partridge 52:05 I think 'cause you s- you mentioned about when you, you're now the content creator that you wanted to be. And do you think that because you're, you've reached that goal that you're happy, or do you think happiness is being in a constant effort to achieve something that's sort of challenging you enough to keep you engaged?

Holly Morris 52:28 Yeah, I think so. And I thought I would get to this stage, and I'd be like, "Oh, I've done it. I've completed it." But it's not because now I love it so much that I'm like, "Oh, I don't want it to go anywhere." Like, I'm holding onto it so tightly. I'm like, "I've gotta post every day. I've gotta be ... Uh, my videos have gotta be, like, top-notch. Like, I've gotta, I've gotta do more, I've gotta do more." You don't really. I thought I'd get to a point, and I'd just be like, "Yeah, it's fine."

Alex Partridge 52:48 Mm.

Holly Morris 52:49 But I haven't really got to that. I'd say in my general life I'm so overwhelmingly happy in general because I've got loads of, I've got more of my own free time. I've got more, um, control of my own life. Um, but I think there is something in me that will always need to do a little bit better or do a bit more.

Alex Partridge 53:07 Mm.

Holly Morris 53:08 And I also think happiness in ... I think I can ... I'm very, um, content with my life, but I think happiness is quite fleeting. I don't think I'm always gonna be happy even though I've got this now amazing life. I'm very content.

Alex Partridge 53:20 Mm.

Holly Morris 53:21 But happiness, I think, is still gonna be, like, different on a day-to-day basis-

Alex Partridge 53:25 Mm

Holly Morris 53:25 ... for me.

Alex Partridge 53:27 I think it's so interesting. I think some of the unhappiest people are the people who have just achieved what they thought was their life goal.

Holly Morris 53:36 Yeah.

Alex Partridge 53:36 People who have just summited Everest or they've just won gold at the Olympics, and suddenly they're, they fall into a deep depression because they've lost that, that drive and that thing that they'd had to do every day that gave them purpose and, and challenged them.

Holly Morris 53:49 Yeah.

Alex Partridge 53:49 And when you get there, you can often actually be your unhappiest.

Holly Morris 53:52 Yeah.

Alex Partridge 53:52 Um, what

Alex Partridge 53:54 advice would you give to your younger self with the knowledge that you have now around neurodiversity and ADHD? If you could go back in time and-

Holly Morris 54:03 Oh, I'd love to

Alex Partridge 54:03 ... put your arms around younger version of you, what would you, what would you sort of whisper in your ear?

Holly Morris 54:08 I think it's difficult because I, I would go back to that girl, and I'd say, "Hello, you've got ADHD and anxiety, by the way. That's why you're doing this [laughs] or feeling this." That'd be the ideal scenario. But if I couldn't state, uh, yeah, the diagnosis she was about to get, I think I would say, I think I like this phrase, and it, it's just dig in. Like, I would say just dig in. Like, I think that to me is ... Sometimes if I'm nervous, I'll dig my thumb into my finger, and I'm like, "Come on, you can do it." Or, like, even my mum, the, the phrase has come from my mum when she used to run, I think 'cause my granddad did shout out like, "Dig in, Leonie. Like, keep going." And I think that's what I'd say to me is that, like, that all that effort that you've put in to trying to do what you wanna do and get to you wanna be- Just keep doing that. Like, I think the thing was I never gave up. I just always was like, "It's gotta get good at some point. It's gotta get good at some point." I'd love to go back to little me and say, "Oh, it did. You know, you are now at a stage where you are content with your life, your mental health is manageable, and you've got lovely friends and people around you." I think I would say dig in, but at the same time, if I could go back and tell her she had ADHD, I'd say, "It's not worth the masking."

Alex Partridge 55:15 Mm.

Holly Morris 55:15 I'd say, "Try and get to know yourself a bit better. Okay, you wanna play with your Bratz dolls. Like, people ... Well, well, you need to find people that wanna play with Bratz dolls. Like, you need to ... Why are you trying to impress that boy from that school up the road who is horrible? Like, what, what are you getting out of that? Like, is you being the best-looking person the most important thing? Probably not."

Alex Partridge 55:38 Mm.

Holly Morris 55:38 Like, I wish ... But then I don't think my brain would've f- ... You, you can't process that as a teenager or as a kid. Like, you can't process that being attractive and being cool isn't the most important thing, 'cause at that time it very much is.

Alex Partridge 55:51 Mm.

Holly Morris 55:51 So, yeah, [laughs] I don't know. I think I'd just give her a hug, and I'd just say, "Keep going 'cause it is gonna get better."

Alex Partridge 55:58 Mm.

Holly Morris 55:59 Um, but I think I always knew that deep down, 'cause my mom said that. She said, "You never stop." Like, there were so many opportunities I could've just been like, "Let's sack off uni," or, "Let's leave school," or, "Let's stop trying to do whatever." But I never did.

Alex Partridge 56:10 Mm.

Holly Morris 56:10 I kept going. I think I'm very proud of younger me. So yeah, I think I'd say that was quite good. I think maybe she didn't need a Just Do It bag. I feel like that was really trying quite hard.

Alex Partridge 56:22 [laughs]

Holly Morris 56:22 I think I'd tell her to stop doing that.

Alex Partridge 56:24 Yeah. [laughs]

Holly Morris 56:24 But other than that, I think, yeah, I think she did all right. [laughs]

Alex Partridge 56:27 Yeah, it's fascinating, and she did. She did what she did, you know, amazingly well, and it's so, such good advice as well to, to be yourself. I think so many adults with ADHD get slightly older, and because they've had years and years and years of pretending or-

Holly Morris 56:43 Mm

Alex Partridge 56:43 ... changing who they are in order to fit in, and they get that diagnosis, and suddenly they're like, "Who the hell am I?"

Holly Morris 56:48 Yeah.

Alex Partridge 56:48 And you sort of go through a whole new process of learning who you are. Um, and that can be quite shocking sometimes to see the difference between how you've behaved over the last 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years compared to who you are, and that, that's a whole process. What do you think when ... Does it

Alex Partridge 57:08 frustrate you, therefore, when you hear people say ADHD is just a trend?

Holly Morris 57:11 Oh. I think part of me thinks, "Oh, it must be so nice to be in a position where you've never struggled with any kind of mental health, et cetera," 'cause I think the only people that say things like that are people that have never truly felt different or have felt that pain of feeling like you don't fit in or feeling like you can't do what the average person can ... like, the neurotypical person can do. So you're kind of a bit jealous, and I wish I could just have that attitude because life must be so nice to just see people as so 2D, so passive, 'cause obviously I do not feel good for them. But I think [laughs] I kind of think to myself, um, it's such a shame because there's already so much shame on ourselves. We're already questioning nearly everything that we do. Am I just being lazy? Am I just being forgetful? Should I have just gone for that social event? And I always think to myself, "Couldn't you have just pushed yourself to go to your friend's bottomless brunch? Couldn't you just push yourself to-

Alex Partridge 58:03 Mm

Holly Morris 58:03 ... reply to that text?" You know? I almost feel these, a- with people with ADHD, we've got enough shame on ourselves. We do not need you to do it as well. And I also think ADHD, I don't know how you could possibly say it's a trend, because for anyone experiencing it, it is the least trendy thing in the entire world.

Alex Partridge 58:21 Yeah.

Holly Morris 58:21 Like, it is ... It doesn't feel cool. It's just, um, people are talking about it because you know how overwhelming it is to feel like you've never fitted in, and then to have people commenting, messaging, DMing you, being like, "I do that. I do that." And I'm like, "I kept that in a secret little box in my head for years as the fact that I did that."

Alex Partridge 58:38 Mm.

Holly Morris 58:38 "And you're now telling me you do it, and that's made my day."

Alex Partridge 58:42 Mm.

Holly Morris 58:42 Every time someone c- DMs me and says, "Oh yeah, ha ha, I had to not do this because of that," and we can still say it in, like, a jest-ful way, but I'm just like, "Oh, that's so nice that we're in it together." So I think people that say it's a trend, I just think you, yeah, you're lucky that you can think that way because you've not experienced it, but at the same time, do you really ... It'd be very hard, I think, to put all this on.

Alex Partridge 59:03 Mm.

Holly Morris 59:04 But I suppose it's because we can look like we're performing, because people don't see the anxious bit behind, you know?

Alex Partridge 59:09 Mm.

Holly Morris 59:10 I got through school. I had jobs. I went to uni. I did all the normal ... Not normal. I did all the things that were, um, a neurotypical person did, but you didn't see the behind the scenes.

Alex Partridge 59:20 Mm.

Holly Morris 59:20 And I think the people think it's a trend. I'm like, do you wanna see the behind the scenes? 'Cause it's not nice. Like-

Alex Partridge 59:24 [laughs]

Holly Morris 59:24 ... if you want, I can give you the full rundown, but you're gonna be exhausted.

Alex Partridge 59:27 [laughs]

Holly Morris 59:27 So I think it's just, it's such a shame that people just can't believe each other-

Alex Partridge 59:34 Mm

Holly Morris 59:34 ... and, and trust each other that we're not having them on.

Alex Partridge 59:36 Mm. Yeah, no, it's brilliant. Everything you just said is, is so spot on, and I think it just, it comes from a place of ignorance, I think-

Holly Morris 59:44 Yeah

Alex Partridge 59:44 ... and just not really appreciating what it really means to have ADHD. I think you can see a load of people suddenly talking about it and getting diagnosed, and it might appear that suddenly it's just everyone's just jumping on a bandwagon, but really it's just a load of people playing catch-up-

Holly Morris 59:57 Yeah

Alex Partridge 59:57 ... 'cause there's more awareness now.

Holly Morris 59:59 Yeah.

Alex Partridge 1:00:00 F- there's a closing question

Alex Partridge 1:00:02 I ask all of my guests. Super interested to hear yours.

Holly Morris 1:00:05 Mm-hmm.

Alex Partridge 1:00:05 What's the most impulsive thing you've ever done?

Holly Morris 1:00:08 Oh, God. [laughs] I don't know, 'cause I've done a lot of impulsive things. I'd probably say the most impulsive I've done is basically I'm a c- I was always a serial job quitter, so I quit, like, six or eight jobs in two years. And then I remember furlough came about, and I was put on furlough for one of these jobs. And then my friend was like, "Oh, um, do you wanna move to Greece? Because I know this boy that I've met when I was skiing, and he has got this windsurfing school." She was like, "Do you wanna go?" And I was like, "Yeah, I do wanna go." So three days later we bought a one-way ticket, and I moved to Greece to this ... And we were, like, in this, like, random ... It, it was basically like a hostel. I remember there was a stall because there wasn't a shower. There was just, like, a- A tap that was, like, on a bit of w- a string, whatever, and then a stool, and you had to wash yourself in that.

Alex Partridge 1:01:00 Mm.

Holly Morris 1:01:00 Moved to Greece. Thought, "Oh, my God, I'm gonna live... I'm such a legend. I'm gonna live Mamma Mia! Like, this is..." Before I'd met Rory, I was like, "I'm gonna fall in love in Greece. This is gonna be so cool." Anyway, couple of days later [laughs] I got a call from the company I was obviously working for, that I was on furlough for, and they were like, "Oh, we need you back. Like, we don't need you on furlough. Like, we need you back in work, um, for a couple of days a week." And I was like, "Oh, my God." I was like, "I'm so sorry, but I'm in Greece." And they were like, "What?" They're like, "Contractually you can't, like, you can't just go to Greece 'cause you're still working for us 'cause you're on furlough." And I was like, "Oh, I didn't know that." I didn't, obviously didn't do any research. I just moved to Greece.

Alex Partridge 1:01:35 Mm.

Holly Morris 1:01:35 And then I remember then I had to work... They were like, "Okay, well, we don't know how we're gonna come to a conclusion here." They're like, "Look, you have to work from there tomorrow, 'cause we definitely need you tomorrow." So I was like, "Okay." So luckily I had my laptop. I had to go into this bar in Greece, in this tiny little town. I had to try and like hotspot my phone, and I had to do this meeting with this new client, and I remember sitting on this call in Greece, sweating. Also, I'm in a... It's basically a club, so it's like all, like, blacked out, but then loads of, like, sparkly things on the wall and stuff. And then I remember I'd ordered an orange juice before I'd got on the call. The orange juice arrived, and they'd put... It was in a cocktail glass [laughs] and they'd put, like, an umbrella and one of those, like, sparkly other, like, decorations on it. So then this call came with this client. This man's passing me this cocktail, and I'm like, "Oh, my God."

Alex Partridge 1:02:17 [laughs]

Holly Morris 1:02:17 "I'm actually gonna get fired." It looks like it's like I'm just chilling in this bar, like, not me doing any business. And I look back on that and I think, "How did you not think, I'm on furlough? I'm not, like, this is not a free ticket to ride. How did you think you could just go to Greece and get away with that?" And yeah, I just stayed there for four weeks. Um, eventually came back, and then normal life resumed. But I just thought that was not very me to just-

Alex Partridge 1:02:45 Mm.

Holly Morris 1:02:46 I mean, actually, no. Sorry. That is very me to just do that.

Alex Partridge 1:02:49 Yeah.

Holly Morris 1:02:49 But the logic, everything would say, "Don't do that." But then, yeah, I was.

Alex Partridge 1:02:53 You had to come back. So the Mamma Mia! love affair didn't, didn't come to fruition.

Holly Morris 1:02:55 Yeah, it didn't actually happen. No. No, it didn't.

Alex Partridge 1:02:57 [laughs]

Holly Morris 1:02:58 I actually met Rory a month afterwards.

Alex Partridge 1:02:59 Yeah. [laughs]

Holly Morris 1:03:00 So yeah, it was completely interrupted, unfortunately.

Alex Partridge 1:03:01 Yeah.

Holly Morris 1:03:02 But it was just completely... My friend was like, "Oh, I've been dumped. Do you wanna go ch- away?" And I was like, "Yeah."

Alex Partridge 1:03:09 Mm.

Holly Morris 1:03:09 And I was like, "Okay." And then that was that. Off I went. But the pain of, like, having that call with my company, I've, I don't like, obviously, the rejection sensitivity. I don't like letting people down. But I also wasn't gonna come back, so I was just like-

Alex Partridge 1:03:21 Mm

Holly Morris 1:03:21 ... "Oh, sorry. It's happened. I'm here."

Alex Partridge 1:03:23 Yeah.

Holly Morris 1:03:23 [laughs]

Alex Partridge 1:03:24 Love it. That's fascinating.

Holly Morris 1:03:26 [laughs]

Alex Partridge 1:03:27 Holly, this has been absolutely fas- fascinating. Thanks.

Holly Morris 1:03:29 Oh, thank you for having me.

Alex Partridge 1:03:30 Thank you so much for your time.

Holly Morris 1:03:31 That's all right. [upbeat music]