EVERY SPOKEN WORD
50 min read · 10,381 words- 0:00 – 2:32
Trailer
- SPSpeaker
With ADHD, you're just gonna have to live in the moment. As soon as I started to learn about inattentive ADHD, I realized that there was, like, nothing wrong with me, it's just that I didn't understand that part of my brain. One thing really struck me is that there were several times in my life where I felt like I'd gone in kinda cruise control or something strange. I never understood that. I'm like, "Why do I shut down and go in cruise control?" And I realize it's because of the decision-making thing. Nelly Furtado is a world-renowned musical superstar who needs no introduction.
- APAlex Partridge
Today, she opens up about her ADHD diagnosis that she received at 43 years old.
- SPSpeaker
Showing you a side of her you've never seen before. I didn't really know a lot about ADHD, but my therapist told me to buy this book called Women with ADHD. And through the process of reading the book, I had many, many aha moments. If you're, like, obsessive compulsive and ADHD, you can kinda use it to your advantage a little bit, [laughs] 'cause you can just find something you're obsessed with. When I'm doing what I'm good at, which is making music, writing music, producing music, I actually don't feel abnormal at all. I feel super focused and hyper-focused-
- APAlex Partridge
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... as you would say.
- APAlex Partridge
If Nelly's criticized or rejected, can that look like a shutdown?
- SPSpeaker
It's a lot better now, but-
- APAlex Partridge
Quick one before I get distracted. I just wanted to say a very brief thank you to all of my listeners. Thank you for tuning in, and thank you for subscribing and following the podcast. It really, really helps. At ADHD Chatter, my mission is to ask the world-leading experts the hard questions to give you access to the most pioneering advice the world has to offer, and with an aim to help you feel seen. Following and subscribing helps me on my mission to book these incredibly insightful guests and to give you these incredibly insightful interviews. Remember, you're not broken, just different, and you have always been enough. [upbeat music] Nelly.
- SPSpeaker
Hello.
- APAlex Partridge
I'm excited.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs] Good.
- APAlex Partridge
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
I hope you're still excited when we're finished. [laughs]
- APAlex Partridge
When did you get your ADHD diagnosis?
- SPSpeaker
Um, really late. Like, a c- like, maybe f- like three years ago, as, like, a full-grown woman, [laughs] like an adult, in my 40s, just my early 40s. Just, like, um, yeah.
- APAlex Partridge
I'm excited on behalf of the 85% of people that listen to this podcast who are, who are women-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- APAlex Partridge
... who are very similar to-
- SPSpeaker
85% women?
- APAlex Partridge
Eig- 85%, yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Ah.
- APAlex Partridge
Very-
- SPSpeaker
Interesting. I didn't know that
- APAlex Partridge
... I feel like it's gonna be a conversation full of, um, inspiration and emotional validation.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- APAlex Partridge
A lot to unpack, no doubt.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- APAlex Partridge
I wanna start at the beginning.
- SPSpeaker
Okay, sure.
- 2:32 – 8:23
Early memories of feeling different
- APAlex Partridge
What's your earliest memories of feeling different?
- SPSpeaker
Hmm. Probably the time I used to spend in deep thought, I think, as a child. Just kind of, like, um, I guess what one might call, like, kind of, like, spacing out, quote unquote, or staring out the window, or, um... Kinda had a, like... I, I, I think I had a lot of, like, of my own quirks, I would say, 'cause as a child I also had OCD. So sometimes I'd have a certain type of repetitive thoughts in my mind or twitches and things I would need to do. Um, uh, and so that already made me feel a little odd. And then as I got older, I think more of the pronounced, like, spacing out, sort of like, I guess would... Uh, 'cause I s- I have the ADHD that's, that's more inattentive ADHD. Less hyperactive, more inattentive.
- APAlex Partridge
Do you remember what those racing thoughts, those, that OCD thoughts, do you remember what they were?
- SPSpeaker
Well, sometimes it was like you'd have, I'd have to kinda, like... As a child, if I'd, like, walk into the bathroom, I'd have to, like, open the cupboard and then, like, touch the shower curtain or something, and then I, I thought something really bad was gonna happen if I didn't do it. Um, yeah, stuff like that. And then I remember watching, like, Oprah Winfrey as a child, and she talked about OCD. So yeah, it's good, like, that there are podcasts like this so people can kinda go, "Oh, wait, maybe that's what I have," or whatnot. Makes it all less scary.
- APAlex Partridge
I mean, it sounds exhausting, like, having those-
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- APAlex Partridge
... those intrusive thoughts all the time. I, I just d- describe the ADHD-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Thank God it went away. It kinda went away as I got older.
- APAlex Partridge
What made it go away?
- SPSpeaker
I have no idea. Thank God, though.
- APAlex Partridge
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Um, I think, I'm not sure. Maybe the brain matured or, I have no idea. Um, but yeah, with the ADHD I think was more noticeable. To be totally honest, I don't think I noticed as much when I was a smaller child, because I was so passionate about music, and most of my extracurricular activities were either choir, band practice, ukulele, trombone, marching band, church choir, like, writing songs. And so I think I was so di- distracted by my obsession with music, 'cause I guess if you're, like, obsessive compulsive and ADHD, you can kinda use it to your advantage a little bit [laughs] 'cause you can just find something you're obsessed with. I mean, that's not the magic cure for sure, but...
- APAlex Partridge
Do you remember a, a moment where you realized that you felt different? Because there's a difference between-
- SPSpeaker
Um-
- APAlex Partridge
... remembering feeling different, but do you remember-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- APAlex Partridge
... realizing that you were different?
- SPSpeaker
Um, well, that's a good question. I mean, there were moments. Like, I remember, for instance, like, I remember being, like, in grade seven, I think it was, and I was trying out for the basketball team. And, you know, I probably wasn't that great to begin with, but, um, I remember the teacher kind of, like, lining everyone in the hallway and telling all the girls that got into the team, like, you know, that they, they made the team. And then when she got to me, and she said, "You know what? You didn't make the team because you really need to work on your listening." You know what I mean? And I remember feeling like, wait, I don't remember not listening to her. So you know what I mean? Like, not having the self-awareness that maybe I wasn't, like, focused in that way.
- APAlex Partridge
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
But then I kinda stepped back and go, "Oh, okay"Oh, wow. Okay, it's just 'cause I, like, I'm not listening, you know? Which is, like, inattentive
- APAlex Partridge
Totally. I describe ADHD, the inattentive type, as having, like, 10 highly caffeinated squirrels barreling around in your head-
- SPSpeaker
[laughs] Oh, yeah
- APAlex Partridge
... all the time.
- SPSpeaker
I think I saw that one. [laughs]
- APAlex Partridge
Like, each one pulling you in a different direction-
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- APAlex Partridge
... a different thought. And, and that can create an internalized anxiety sometimes that almost creates this, this i- inability to zoom in.
- SPSpeaker
Well, it's that sort of Pandora's box, right? You walk and it's... You wa- you, like, yeah, you walk to go get, you know, to unlock the back door, and then you see the paper on the table, and then you move the coffee cup, and that reminds you, "Oh, wow, I just got that new coffee." And then you're going to grind coffee beans and you're like, "What am I doing?" You know? So yeah, tha- those would be the squirrels.
- APAlex Partridge
Quite easy to get distracted by a side quest when you, uh, when you've got ADHD.
- SPSpeaker
Side quest, yes. [laughs] Um, my friend said to me this week actually, uh, a friend with ADHD said, "What I do is I like to make sure I'm closing all the tabs," which I really liked. It's like you're closing all the tabs in your mind before you move on.
- 8:23 – 12:51
The diagnosis story
- APAlex Partridge
What... The diagnosis story, how did that happen? Was there, like, a chain of events that led to that?
- SPSpeaker
You know what? That's an interesting question. So, you know, it was like I had a really good therapist, like, a good psychologist, and she was, like, very sweet and kind, and we just would talk a lot. And, um, you know, she said... I don't know, I think it was me. I think, I don't know how it came up. It just kinda came up naturally through the course of therapy, and it was like, I really wanna kinda, you know, get kind of, kind of tested for this or, or whatnot or, or, um... And so I just kinda went through a few of those processes with her and some different testing. Mm-hmm.
- APAlex Partridge
What did you think ADHD was? Like, did you have any preconceptions towards it before you got diagnosed?
- SPSpeaker
Uh, before I, I didn't know a lot about it, and I didn't even know that there was an inattentive kind of ADHD. I thought it was just hyperactivity 'cause the only thing that really gets the headlines is, like, ADHD and, like, kids or hyper kids or whatever. So for me, it was more like, "Aha, okay, this makes sense," 'cause any friend of mine, like, from junior high forward would be like, "Oh, don't know where she went" You know?
- APAlex Partridge
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
So I'd be talking to you-
- APAlex Partridge
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... and then I'd just space out, like, completely. You know? And they'd be like, "Oh, okay, you're back." You know, and they just... My really close friends, they're, they're used to it. You know what I mean? Um, but yeah, I would say I did not know what, um... I didn't really know a lot about ADHD, but my, my therapist told me to buy this book called Women with ADHD. I think it was written about 20 years ago. And through the process of reading the book, I had many, many aha moments where I just went, "Oh, my goodness," because it just presents itself differently in women, you know? Because we have a lot of different, um, you know, roles-
- APAlex Partridge
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... we're supposed to, you know, embody. And, uh, all of a sudden it was so nice. It was like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders, like, okay, um, there's, like, a reason, you know, why I might feel insufficient in certain areas.
- APAlex Partridge
Do you think you started feeling more sufficient, more... Did your self-esteem go up post-diagnosis?
- SPSpeaker
In a way, actually, now that you ask me, I think it did, 'cause I think I used to kinda be hard on myself for being unorganized, perhaps unproductive, perhaps a poor communicator, perhaps for shutting down or overwhelmed, feeling guilty about those things. But as soon as I started to learn about inattentive ADHD, I realized that there was, like, nothing wrong with me, you know? It's just that I didn't understand, you know, that part of my brain. So that was, like, really, really nice and helpful.
- APAlex Partridge
I guess it comes with a lot of, um, validation, I guess. You can look back through your life perhaps with this new paintbrush and add color and context to previous decisions.
- SPSpeaker
I would, I would definitely say so because the, the thing, one thing really struck me is that there were several times in my life where I felt like I'd gone in kinda cruise control or something strange. I never understood that. I'm like, "Why? Why do I shut down and go in cruise control?" And I realize it's because of the decision-making thing, that there's so many choices that you just get overwhelmed, right?
- APAlex Partridge
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
And I didn't, I didn't understand why I would buy certain things, like, like silly things that I already had, 'cause you just, you're so overwhelmed you can't, like, find them. [laughs] So you just can't find them?
- APAlex Partridge
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Or it's impossible-
- APAlex Partridge
Hmm
- SPSpeaker
... to find them?
- APAlex Partridge
Yeah, I mean, I can't walk into a supermarket and remember what I want for dinner. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- APAlex Partridge
So I just leave. I mean-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah
- APAlex Partridge
... do you find you've been like-
- SPSpeaker
Well, that's the thing. A lot of editing of my life, I'm gonna say-
- APAlex Partridge
Hmm
- SPSpeaker
... I think to manage the ADHD, you know, just to be like, okay, I'm really... I b- it's like I feel like my life's been this constant streamlining, you know? It's this constant editing just to kind of like make it make... It's like make it make sense, you know?
- APAlex Partridge
Hmm.
- SPSpeaker
So just this, this streamlining of life to kind of simplify so that you can live, you know? Or live well, you know, and feel good every day.
- 12:51 – 15:16
Where ADHD has caused problems
- APAlex Partridge
Where do you think it's caused the most problems in your life, ADHD?
- SPSpeaker
Oh, that is such a good question. Where has it caused problems? Um, I would say just the overwhelm. Overwhelm, definitely. It's because I'm, I'm kind of like in a business that's the, it's like, it's like, it's like more is more, you know? So like you get on the horse and you keep going, but not me. I get overwhelmed, and then I just stop for a while until I can kind of get my bearings again and, you know, settle down a little bit. Um, then I go again, you know. But then the irony is the actual nature of what I do is quite healthy for my ADHD because it involves a lot of focus and a lot of repetition. So for instance, preparing a concert is very, um, repetitive in a really great way that's still exciting, you know, because I love music. So although it's repetitive, I can do it because I love music, and music comes naturally to me. So when I'm running a dance, you know, a dance, like choreography or something over and over again, um, I love it 'cause I can hear the music. I'm, I'm, I'm also like around people. I love people, community. Um, I love like being... I think that's the thing. Like if when I'm doing what I'm good at, which is like music, making music, writing music, producing music, putting together shows, that's, I feel, I actually don't feel abnormal at all. I feel super focused and hyper-focused-
- APAlex Partridge
Hmm
- SPSpeaker
... as you would say. If I'm at a concert as well, like, I do go into this like, this other place. Like I get into this place of like hyper-focus. Like I had a concert last night. It's like as soon as I get on stage, it's like this hyper-focus takes over, and I'm just like really in it, you know?
- APAlex Partridge
And when the overwhelm gets really bad, what does an overwhelmed Nelly look like?
- SPSpeaker
[laughs] Um, oh, let me think about that. Um, overwhelmed me would be, uh, probably like not answering anybody's text messages or emails or making any choices, just kind of stalling. Just pull over side of highway type thing, blinkers on.
- APAlex Partridge
Yeah, take a break.
- 15:16 – 20:19
How would your best friends describe you
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Yeah.
- APAlex Partridge
If we were to bring three of your best friends in here, um, what do you think they would say towards your sort of most pronounced ADHD traits? How would they describe you?
- SPSpeaker
They would probably say, um, that I space out a lot, that when they're talking to me, they, they don't know like what they're, like what place I'm gonna go to in the conversation. They just kind of like buckle their seatbelt [laughs]
- APAlex Partridge
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
... and hang on for the ride. Um, or that I change topics quite regularly. Um, and that, um, yeah, like sometimes they're just like, "Where'd you go?" You know, like I just space out and they're like, like, "Okay, hang on." But I can like get back to it. I can remember. Um, sometimes like people I've worked with over the years, like producers and that, like I remember my very first producer of my first album would just say... And that was validating. He'd be like, "Oh, her, your brain just works so fast," you know, 'cause we're like producing this album together, and he was like, "Wow, your brain just works so fast. You're always thinking like way ahead and rewinding and fast-forwarding at the same time." And so that was nice to hear that, right? From like a mentor, like okay, there's like nothing wrong with me. You know what I mean? I hope I answered your question.
- APAlex Partridge
Yeah, you did. I mean, you-
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- APAlex Partridge
... you, you, you, you get a diagnosis, and you realize that you're not broken. You're just different, right? Um, and that you've always been enough, and you can look back-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- APAlex Partridge
... through your past, and, and you can add color and context to past actions. Like with your diagnosis and your awareness-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, like not having like remorse or guilt or like feeling bad about maybe something you did or whatever.
- APAlex Partridge
Yeah, I mean, you can-
- SPSpeaker
No, you're absolutely right about that, yeah. No.
- APAlex Partridge
You can grieve, right? Is there a particular argument or, or getting told off at school, you know, looking back on your past that with this understanding of ADHD you can be a lot more compassionate to a v- past version of Nelly?
- SPSpeaker
Um, I think that, uh, school, let me go back to school. I mean, what I did, again, in school is I hyper-focused.
- APAlex Partridge
Hmm.
- SPSpeaker
You know what I mean? Um, even in college, like I did about a year of college before I went off and did music, but I actually after every single class would go to the library and highlight every single note that I wrote down. At the time, I thought that was normal and what you needed to do to do well and get straight As, which I did, but do you see what I mean?
- APAlex Partridge
Hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Now I'm like, wait a second. [laughs] Maybe not everyone has to sit with a highlighter and be like, review, review. So it's like this like, what's it called, like overachieving. That was also one of my, um, hallmarks of mine, I guess. My ADHD is like, and same thing in elementary school. It was like I had to get straight As 'cause it was like a hyper-focus. I'd focus on something, so I was like I'm gonna focus on getting straight As. So oh my God, the teacher has told me I need to hand in five pages about-... coyotes. So what do I do? I hand in 20 to make sure I get a straight A. And, oh, the teacher, the nurses are on strike. I'm gonna go interview them outside the hospital. Like, I'm 10 years old interviewing nurses 'cause I want to hand in a project about nurses, and the, the teacher's looking at me like, [laughs] "What's wrong with you?"
- APAlex Partridge
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
"What? Thanks. Why did you do this?" So overachieving, definitely perfectionism, for sure, to make myself feel more normal. Yeah.
- APAlex Partridge
Where do you think that comes from, that desire for perfectionism?
- SPSpeaker
Probably just to, like, harness my brain-
- APAlex Partridge
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... 'cause it's like so many wild horses running around in there.
- APAlex Partridge
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
So I have to be like, "Okay." I'm gonna, like, take that energy and put it into-
- APAlex Partridge
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... something, you know?
- APAlex Partridge
And then the diagnosis came, right?
- 20:19 – 21:03
Motherhood
- SPSpeaker
but, um, I don't know. And, and I think too, I think motherhood's kept me really grounded, to be honest. 'Cause children keep you in a routine. I have three children, and just the routine of motherhood kinda keeps you from starting too many domains. [laughs]
- APAlex Partridge
How does the, uh-
- SPSpeaker
I think
- APAlex Partridge
... how does motherhood sort of clash with the, the, the pr- propensity to become overwhelmed? How, what challenges does that-
- SPSpeaker
Oh, God. Um, well, that's, that's difficult. Um, I think that a p- a good part about reading that book, um, Woman With ADHD, that I read, uh, when I first got diagnosed, was that it talked a lot about motherhood. Yeah. And basically, like, to just kinda let go of, like, any guilt you might have-
- APAlex Partridge
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... from not doing everything, like, perfectly, you
- 21:03 – 22:15
Tiimo advert
- SPSpeaker
know?
- APAlex Partridge
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- 22:15 – 23:27
Family reactions to diagnosis
- APAlex Partridge
when you got your diagnosis, what was the reaction from those guy nearest to you, family, friends?
- SPSpeaker
Oh, it was kinda fun. Just kinda like, you know, just telling the people closest to me, just, and it was like, "Oh, wow, that makes sense," you know?
- APAlex Partridge
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. I mean, of course... I mean, I'm always, like, wondering what I could do to, like, kinda help, uh, things move along at work and things. I think sometimes my communication's not that great with the people that I work with. But, you know, sometimes people go the extra mile to try to understand what it might be like to have ADHD and how maybe I'm, how, how the, like, how, how they can figure out the best way to communicate with me effectively. I think I will say it that way. [laughs]
- APAlex Partridge
Is that... 'Cause your, obviously, your career is very busy. You must have a, a team around you. Is there a, a, an amount of self-awareness that has enabled you to almost delegate perhaps bits that you struggle with?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. I think, um, yeah, it's definitely good to surround yourself with people who might be good at things that you're not good at. You know what I mean? People kind of keep you in check in different ways. Yeah, I definitely do that, I would say.
- 23:27 – 26:16
How ADHD helps with song writing
- APAlex Partridge
What about songwriting? How do you think your, your sort of unique brain helps you in that arena?
- SPSpeaker
Probably helped the most when I was really kind of like, um, kind of like learning the art of songwriting, just kinda sitting alone in my room and writing several songs in a row for hours and hours. 'Cause it takes that, again, hyperfocus to do that, I think. Um, and then in a studio setting and as a, like, a writer, a producer, and kind of like making albums, I think it helps a lot because I can manage a lot. I can kinda have 10 people in the studio-
- APAlex Partridge
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... and feels very normal for me, and just have, like, a bunch of different songs kind of, kinda happening at the same time, in a way. 'Cause that's the ultimate meander, is kind of music, jamming. Like, when you jam and you improvise, you can just be you. Like-And you can test that out, you know? You can test out, like, well, what, what can my brain do? So I've been lucky enough to put myself into certain situations where I can kind of [laughs] take my, my brain, you know, as, as far as it can go in that way in terms of creating when I'm sitting making music or writing songs, improvising in terms of... And what I mean by that, just to be clear, is, um, is I, I, I, I write my songs kind of off the top of my head, a lot of them, so the melody and lyrics all kind of come together at the same time. So one time I sat with [laughs] a bunch of strangers as sort of, like, a, kind of like a performance art experiment I did, um, at the MoMA PS1 in New York. Um, and I sat for about three hours at this fundraiser thing in my own "classroom," quote, unquote, and I just had a guitar and I had just paper and pencil and, like, a literal, like, cassette tape recorder. And groups of, like, two to five people would come in at a time, and I would kind of talk to them about their most precious childhood memories or, like, what dream they had the night before, and then I would start to, like, write this song. And the idea was to kind of co-create with them in the same space. Um, but I kept doing it for about three hours, and it was very, like, it felt like a, like, very brave activity, 'cause, um, I think, like, when we really talk about the brain or, like, how we create things, um, it's fun to test the limits that way, you know?
- APAlex Partridge
I've always felt like being impulsive contributes to the creative process.
- SPSpeaker
I'm also a bit impulsive. Yeah. [laughs]
- APAlex Partridge
[laughs]
- 26:16 – 27:23
Are you impulsive?
- APAlex Partridge
Do you think you're-
- SPSpeaker
Oh. [laughs]
- APAlex Partridge
Would you describe yourself as an impulsive person?
- SPSpeaker
I can be. I, I don't think I have that, like, um, propensity to kind of do dangerous things necessarily. But I think impulsive, yesterday I invited somebody to sing on stage with me 30 minutes before I walked out and decided what song right before. [laughs]
- APAlex Partridge
How did that go?
- SPSpeaker
Awesome-
- APAlex Partridge
Yeah? That all good
- SPSpeaker
... 'cause she is great. Her name's Katie B, and she was side stage. And I, sh- I was like, "Do you want, like, I wanted you to sing, by the way, and, like, I wouldn't have a chance to talk to you about it." And she's like, "I'd be game." And then she just kind of walked out. See, that's like, that's ADHD gold. [laughs] 'Cause you just get to-
- APAlex Partridge
That is, that is impulsivity, right? That's just doing something. 'Cause a lot of people would be too fearful-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- APAlex Partridge
... to, to go some sort of-
- SPSpeaker
No, it's so, it feels so good 'cause you're just really, you're living the way you wanna live, you know?
- APAlex Partridge
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
The way I want to live is l- like that, but not every day is like that. Regular life is not like that.
- 27:23 – 35:01
Imposter syndrome
- APAlex Partridge
What about imposter syndrome? 'Cause, like, in th- in those moments when you're on stage in front of thousands of people, like, and you look very confident, but inside, do you feel always as confident as you look?
- SPSpeaker
[laughs] Um, I've come a long way, and I've really come back to realizing that, like, the art of performing is really in the preparation. If you prepare well, that's what gives you the confidence. So only in the last two years, three years max, have I realized that if I walk off the stage and I know that I did everything possible to make it the greatest show I could do in that moment, I feel really good about it. And if somebody says it was a good show, it's literally icing on the cake for me, where 20 years ago, when I was in my early 20s doing shows, I really had no idea. I just did my thing, my thing, and then after, if somebody told me it was a good show, then I believed it was a good show. Know what I mean? See the difference?
- APAlex Partridge
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
So I think I've realized that, like, like most things in life, like, it's kinda like, it's all about, it's quite boring. It's all about the preparation. You know what I mean? And in composition, in music, a lot of teachers will tell you that, and, like, even my, um, my vocal teacher, I remember him saying that before he passed, Ron, he would be like, "No, the, you don't have to add any magic to it. You don't have to worry about that." 'Cause when you're in your early 20s, you're all about, "What about, what about the rock and roll," you know? [laughs] "When am I gonna burn my guitar on stage?"
- APAlex Partridge
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
And it's like, no, if you just sing the song-
- APAlex Partridge
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... the magic of the composition already exists in the melody and the lyric. So it's gonna come together, and it's gonna be magical. You know what I mean?
- APAlex Partridge
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
Does that make sense?
- APAlex Partridge
Totally. Just before you go on stage, like, what's your routine? How, what do you do to calm the ADHD mind in those moments?
- SPSpeaker
Um, basically, I, I lately have been doing a lot of, like, just body stuff, like stretching, just kind of, like, stretching. Mental preparation is I like to listen to the show tape. Just, I call it a show tape. It's basically, like, a recording of the show. Um, I also do my vocal warm-ups. Uh, I meet up with, like, my dancers. We do a little more warm-ups. I meet up with my band. We sing, like, a song through. It's very, like, kinda systematic. Mm-hmm.
- APAlex Partridge
I've been reading a lot, like, celebrities, right, they have-
- SPSpeaker
It's like a athlete, you know? You just know what you have to do for the game. It's like you know what's, what you need to do-
- APAlex Partridge
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... for game time, you know?
- APAlex Partridge
And post-show, like, how are you feeling when you come off stage?
- SPSpeaker
Uh, basically, when I come off the stage... You see, this is very diff- I have to say, there's been, like, a totally pronounced difference between who I am now as a performer and who I was. Like, I was thinking about this last night, actually, 'cause I kinda came home after a really good show, and I was, like, looking out at the water, and it was, like, this great moment. And I thought to myself, "Wow, remember when you used to, like, in your, in your early 20s when you were doing this," you know, kind of like first putting out music and everything, you would just come back from a show and just feel absolutely insane, you know? [laughs] You would just have so much, so many, so many, like, chemical, like, sort of, like, I don't know how to explain it, like adrenaline.
- APAlex Partridge
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
It's like your, your little-20-something-year-old body's feeling all this adrenaline for the first time, and I don't think your body knows how to process it properly. So it just takes a long time, or it's, like, a lot harder to be grounded. But now, in my 40s, I'm super grounded, so, like, it's so much more enjoyable. When I tell you, like, it's so much more enjoyable and so less terrifying. So less terrifying.
- APAlex Partridge
How, how do you sleep? And I, I mean, like, because a lot of-
- SPSpeaker
Four hours minimum post-show I can't sleep. At least, I need at least four hours-
- APAlex Partridge
Before the show-
- SPSpeaker
... to wind down
- APAlex Partridge
... so a- after the show?
- SPSpeaker
After the show you have too much adrenaline. I need minimum four hours.
- APAlex Partridge
Right. So if the show finishes at, like, say, 10:00, you're up till 2:00, 3:00 AM?
- SPSpeaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure.
- APAlex Partridge
And-
- SPSpeaker
If I finish at 10:00, or, like, yeah, if I walk... Like, last night I walked offstage at 9:00 PM.
- 35:01 – 40:52
Is ADHD a superpower
- APAlex Partridge
if you were to look back through your life, Nelly, at the sort of the traits of ADHD, would you describe any as sort of helping you have, like, a superpower? Do you think some of them have-
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- APAlex Partridge
... really benefited you?
- SPSpeaker
You know, I talked a lot about that last year when I was putting, like, my album out, and I was like, "Yeah, it's like a superpower," and it, so now I, I, it, it, I, it is. It is, but also, like, I liked, you know, my friend o- once was like, you know, i- it depends your approach. It just depends on your approach. Like, I don't, like, even when you say to me, like, when you're like, "Well, what would you have changed, like, if you went back and you knew you had ADHD?" But I don't think, I don't think it would've been better if I knew. Does that make sense? Like, I'm kinda glad I'm finding out now, to be honest.
- APAlex Partridge
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
TBH, I'm glad I didn't know. Is that weird to say?
- APAlex Partridge
No, I think, do you think, do you think you, do you harbor any shame around previous versions of Nelly?
- SPSpeaker
'Cause maybe I would've made excuses or something for myself. I mean, do you know what I mean? Like, I wonder if I, if I didn't know.
- APAlex Partridge
Well, I guess if you understood why, like, why you did things in a way that might be considered unusual, you might have not beaten yourself up so much.
- SPSpeaker
I'm not sure, to be honest. Is that weird? I don't know.
- APAlex Partridge
No, sometimes it's better to not know, right? And just-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- APAlex Partridge
... live life.
- SPSpeaker
Like, I'm, I'm kinda somehow strangely grateful I didn't know until now.
- APAlex Partridge
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
'Cause I feel like I'm more, like, capable of, like, using that knowledge in the way that suits me now. Does that make sense?
- APAlex Partridge
Yeah. I mean, if you know, then-
- SPSpeaker
Like, I gotta say, like, I d- I do really feel like with ADHD, like, I know you can do things that can help you a little bit, but you're, you just have to accept your life is not gonna be, like s- it's, you're just gonna have to live in the moment, to be honest, you know? That's the, I think that's the truth
- APAlex Partridge
If you know, then you look it up-
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- APAlex Partridge
... and it, and it, you read that you're, you're disordered, which isn't very nice to read, right?
- SPSpeaker
Well, yeah, that's the thing. Like, I, I... That's the thing. So, so, it, and it's too bad, 'cause I guess there's misinformation out there about it, 'cause I've read, like, it described as a disease, which it's not a disease, you know? You're just, like, neurody- um, neuroatypical, I guess.
- APAlex Partridge
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Right?
- APAlex Partridge
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
When you have neuro-
- APAlex Partridge
Potentially. Yeah, neurodivergent, neuroty-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, neurodivergent.
- APAlex Partridge
I mean, it's an attention-
- SPSpeaker
And I, and I like all those labels, like, they're fine, but I just also don't want them to, like, limit anybody, you know what I mean?
- 40:52 – 43:40
Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria
- APAlex Partridge
day. Do you, have you heard of the term rejection sensitive dysphoria?
- SPSpeaker
Well, I'm learning. I've heard about it, but I'm learning more about it with you today, how you were telling me, like, the reason why people think, um, that if you have ADHD, you might kind of suffer from that as well.
- APAlex Partridge
Yeah. So I subscribe to the idea that children with ADHD, we're exposed to so many more negative criticisms. 20,000 is the theorized number, like, microcorrections, like, "Stop fidgeting. Why are you so lazy? Why can't you just do the task?" 20,000 more little comments like that throughout our childhood, so when we turn into an adult, we're so primed to react viscerous, viscerally and defensively when we are criticized or rejected as an adult. Do you relate to that feeling?
- SPSpeaker
I don't know. Like, we were talking about it, and I was wondering if it was more, like, with the hyperactive s- sort of-
- APAlex Partridge
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... kind of ADHD, 'cause again, mine's more inattentive, so I thought, "Oh, that would make sense for a hyperactive, a person who has always been, like, scolded." You know, you would definitely, I think, feel, like, angry about that later if you were criticized, um, as an adult. But for me personally, I think it has been a little more subtle, but there for sure, 'cause I think maybe, yeah, self-esteem wise, right? You just get a little bit affected that way, I think, when you feel different.
- APAlex Partridge
If Nelly's criticized or rejected, can that look like a shutdown? Can you fill with sadness or, or rage?
- SPSpeaker
Oh, yeah, that's happened to me before. Yeah. It's a lot better now. Like, again, I feel like I'm a little bit more, what's, actualized. [laughs]
- APAlex Partridge
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
As sort of, like, a, you know, I'm, I'm 46, so I'm like-
- APAlex Partridge
Right
- SPSpeaker
... I know who I am, you know, now, fully. I feel, like, a lot more complete, I think as my personality. But I, that can still happen to me, for sure, if somebody, like, rubs me the wrong way or says or something-It triggers me emotionally for some reason.
- APAlex Partridge
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, I can have quite the shutdown and shut people out
- APAlex Partridge
It's a visceral feeling. It can be, like the community purport it, it, it can feel like a, like a, a punch to the chest, right? Or someone's like-
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- APAlex Partridge
... you know, sticks in a dagger and twists it. It's a visceral, physiological, almost a pain response to a, like a, a criticism. Or, uh, and it doesn't always need to be a real criticism. It can be a perceived criticism.
- SPSpeaker
Or maybe it's just kind of like the fitting in thing. You know what I mean?
- APAlex Partridge
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
Just kind of like, again, like ways, um, maybe that- that's what happens. Like you just build this like, you know, this anxiety around fitting in, so maybe a little bit more like, oh, you know?
- APAlex Partridge
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
When you feel left out, I think. And it can be really made up [laughs] in your head.
- APAlex Partridge
Yeah, totally. You can spiral, right?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah [laughs] .
- APAlex Partridge
Based off nothing.
- SPSpeaker
And be like, "I'm so left out."
- APAlex Partridge
Social approval-
- SPSpeaker
Are you talking about?
- APAlex Partridge
... having that removed can be-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- 43:40 – 48:12
Words of wisdom
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- APAlex Partridge
Do you have any words of wisdom, Nelly, for perhaps like a, a late diagnosed ADHD woman, someone who is still finding themselves, finding their confidence?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- APAlex Partridge
Any words of wisdom?
- SPSpeaker
To be honest, what I really feel, and, and, and is that I think you should try to learn about yourself. Like for me, personally, like I know that like if I haven't gone to the dance studio in a while and like learned some choreography or like done particular kinds of like exercise that help my brain, it's, it's gonna be harder for, I'm gonna have a wor- a worse time with my ADHD, like if I don't get my exercise in, if I don't like go do like something creative, if I don't do like, go to the dance studio, like do choreography, get, get grounded. Um, so I think you need to know what might work for you. You know, personally. It's different for everybody. But I think overall, don't like judge yourself and, and, and don't hold yourself to some strange standard of perfection or think you're gonna-
- APAlex Partridge
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... or think you're gonna conquer. You're not gonna conquer. There's no conquering of ADHD. [laughs] There's nothing to conquer. You know what I mean?
- APAlex Partridge
Well, exactly, 'cause you're not broken, like-
- SPSpeaker
There's nothing to conquer. Yeah, there's nothing... It's okay.
- APAlex Partridge
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
You know what I mean? It's okay. It, it, it is, it can be challenging because you, you never feel like you're quite catching up. You feel a little bit behind all the time. Uh, but you have great moments. You have great moments of triumph. So like focus on those. [laughs] Focus on the good ones, and then just let everything else kind of slide and don't worry too much about it, personally. I think that's how you-
- APAlex Partridge
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... s- live without, you don't wanna hate your brain, 'cause the moment we over, we overanalyze what our brain is doing, I think we start to hate our brain, to be honest. I think we start to go... 'Cause like think about it, right? If you're trying to like check yourself all the time, like, "Ooh, no ADHD" -
- APAlex Partridge
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
You can't be like, "No ADHD, I've got a list today." Like it's like, it doesn't work because then you're constantly criticizing yourself.
- APAlex Partridge
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
And then you just hate yourself. You know?
- APAlex Partridge
Yeah. Well, that's the reality I feel, 'cause I've spoken to thousands of late diagnosed women in the community, and, you know, there is a real, sadly, it's heartbreaking, there is a real f- feeling of, of self-loathing sometimes because-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, for sure
- APAlex Partridge
... so many women have been told that they're too sensitive. Like, I feel like it's that internal critic-
- SPSpeaker
Conscious
- APAlex Partridge
... that internal monologue.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Just not f- like, and you're not like, you're not like, you're not, um, what's the word? Like you're just not, you're not like peak function. You're not at peak performance.
- APAlex Partridge
Right. [laughs] Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
'Cause, you know, we live in a world where like everybody wants to be at peak performance-
- APAlex Partridge
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... because we have all the information, so why, why, why don't we work? Oh, why don't you work? There's ways to work, you know?
- APAlex Partridge
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Not work. I mean, why aren't you performing at peak? You know what I mean? That's like the culture in general. And it's like, no, we just need to be human, you know? It's okay to be human.
- APAlex Partridge
I feel like lots of people with ADHD, they kind of pretend to be someone that they're not, which is sad. But when you discover who you really are, then you don't have a deficit of attention towards the thing that you're interested in. You have like an abundance of it, and that's when you can become the best in the world, world beating at that thing. But I feel like traveling towards finding who you really are, perhaps after years and years of masking and pretending, like that's a hard journey to go on, don't you think?
- 48:12 – 49:29
Advice for young Nelly
- APAlex Partridge
And what about advice for the younger version of yourself, with this like new knowledge of ADHD that you have? If you could go back in time and sort of put your arms around young Nelly, what would you tell her?
- SPSpeaker
[laughs] One day this will all make sense. Like, literally. [laughs]
- APAlex Partridge
[laughs] That's probably soothing, right? Just to reassure yourself.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. I'd be like, "One day this will all make sense"-
- APAlex Partridge
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... "why you're like hiding in the bathroom stall, 'cause you don't wanna talk to people." [laughs] Yeah.
- APAlex Partridge
Is that actually what happened?
- SPSpeaker
Uh, yeah.
- APAlex Partridge
God. [laughs] What were you hiding from?
- SPSpeaker
I don't know. I used to just kind of get like, in social functions sometimes, like where there'd be these, these big like, big festivals-
- APAlex Partridge
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... um, at our church, they'd throw these big like parties in the church hall, and as a, as a young kid, I remember going and just feeling overwhelmed by everything, and then I'd have to like go hide in the bathroom stall until I like-... regulated
- APAlex Partridge
Hmm
- SPSpeaker
I just like to regulate my nervous system for like 15 minutes, and then I can go, like, back out. Which is so weird, I know, 'cause I, like, perform in front of so many people. [laughs]
- APAlex Partridge
Do you think there's much of a difference between, like, the, the Nelly that no one else sees behind the scenes compared to the Nelly that the world sees on stage?
- SPSpeaker
I don't know. I mean, yes and no. Yeah, I think everybody's multifaceted, you know what I mean? I think there's a lot of sides to my personality,
- 49:29 – 51:56
Nelly’s ADHD item
- SPSpeaker
but I've kinda always been that way.
- APAlex Partridge
We're gonna do the ADHD item section, Nelly. Um, every week my guest brings in an item that most represents ADHD, and I'm gonna reveal yours now.
- SPSpeaker
Okay.
- APAlex Partridge
Green tea. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
All right. We got some green tea, one of my favorite things.
- APAlex Partridge
Why does green tea represent ADHD?
- SPSpeaker
Green tea, um, um, for me, I'd been drinking green tea every day for like, I don't know, like 30 years or something. Um, I think, uh, I, you asked me to, to, like, think of an item, and the reason I chose green tea is 'cause I think when I wake up in the morning, one of the first thing-- probably the first thing I do, actually, is go make myself, like, a cup of green tea. But I usually use the leaves, and I just kinda, like, steep them, and I'm, like, kinda particular about the different kinds of teas that I drink. But I'll have any green tea. I'm not that picky. But, but yeah, I have like a little ritual, I guess you could say. And I think it kinda just makes me feel more normal, quote-unquote, to have anything that I do the same every day, and that would be probably it.
- APAlex Partridge
Right. Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
The only thing, the only thing I do every day. [laughs] Everything else is a mess.
- APAlex Partridge
Well, it's good to set the day off on some kind of like-
- SPSpeaker
But the green tea, it's really proper.
- APAlex Partridge
For sure.
- SPSpeaker
Really normal.
- APAlex Partridge
How does it make you feel? Like, does it- do you feel, like, more focused after it?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, it also makes me feel more focused.
- APAlex Partridge
Sure.
- SPSpeaker
It makes me kinda feel, like, ready for the day, you know, and just kinda, like, ready. I drink it on stage.
- APAlex Partridge
Really?
- SPSpeaker
Yes. I bring, like, this lovely mug of green tea, and I'm just like... It keeps my mind, like... I don't like, you know, forget lyrics.
- APAlex Partridge
Do you think school is generally set up to accommodate an ADHD brain?
- SPSpeaker
I mean, is life? Is work? Are alarm clocks? [laughs]
- APAlex Partridge
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
No. [laughs]
- APAlex Partridge
It is hard, isn't it? I think, but, uh, you know, this has been fascinating, Nelly. Really, really interesting.
- SPSpeaker
The training schedule, nothing is. [laughs] So why would school be?
- APAlex Partridge
Like, with scheduling, like a-
- SPSpeaker
With scheduling
- APAlex Partridge
Yeah, yeah. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Okay, scheduling. I ask for... [laughs] When I'm working, I ask my team for the schedule 20 times a day when there's already an app where everybody else is on. It's called Master Tour. Do I have it on my phone? Of course not.
- APAlex Partridge
[laughs]
- 51:56 – 53:32
A letter from the previous guest
- APAlex Partridge
fun. Um, just finally, I'm gonna-- and I think you know the previous guest
- SPSpeaker
Sorry. [laughs]
- APAlex Partridge
Um, I'm gonna deliver a letter that was written by the previous guest, I think you know her, um, who's written her three rules to live by, and I'm gonna deliver it to you. And if you could kindly read it.
- SPSpeaker
Okay.
- APAlex Partridge
This is the previous guest, and I think you know her.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, Shanna.
- APAlex Partridge
Shanna Pearson.
- SPSpeaker
That's my girl. It is she, Shanna. [laughs] This is... An-- okay, okay. Three rules to live by. Oh, she sent me these?
- APAlex Partridge
Yes.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, these are primo. This is like-
- APAlex Partridge
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
This is like s- some guru stuff going on. One. Aw, this is gonna make me cry. Own your differences. They've served you in some, brackets, many ways. Two, write down what you've done well and how it's helped you so that you'll see it often when, not if, you forget. So she's like, "So you see it often when, not if, you forget." Three, get out of your brain by getting into your body. So true. Helps so much. What's your sport? Do you play a sport? "Hi, Nelly, Shanna." Hi, Shanna. Thank you.
- APAlex Partridge
Yeah, I run a lot. Like, running, exercise is my kind of, um-
- SPSpeaker
Oh, you run
- APAlex Partridge
... yeah
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, yeah
- APAlex Partridge
... medicine for me.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, it's medicine. It's good.
- APAlex Partridge
Do, do you exercise much?
- SPSpeaker
Yes. And I've gone through phases where running has done that for me, for sure. Yeah. Exercise, for sure.
- APAlex Partridge
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
It's helped so much.
- APAlex Partridge
Nelly, this has been truly, truly fascinating.
- SPSpeaker
Thank you, Rich. [laughs]
- APAlex Partridge
Thank you so much.
- SPSpeaker
Thank you. [outro music]
Episode duration: 53:32
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Transcript of episode hkvcTphFh68
