Rich & Rox: "We've Never Spoken About This Before!" The Secret That Nearly Ended Us

1. 0:00 – 1:40

   Trailer

   1. RORox0:00

      ADHD ruined my life. So many women are gonna know what the countdown clock is, your own imposed sense of anxiety and stress over how much physical intimacy you're having with your partner. If you're not doing it three times a week, you're failing your relationship.

   2. APAlex Partridge0:17

      ADHD Love are a neurodivergent couple and internet phenomenon with six million followers online. This is a side of them you've never seen before As they're asked the hard questions about their ADHD and autism, and how it affects their relationship.

   3. RIRich0:29

      After the diagnosis, I do believe that I became more autistic. Even little things like gross stuff in the sink, anything sensory like that, I used to just be able to push through it. I was more functional before.

   4. APAlex Partridge0:40

      Rich, is there one secret you've never, ever told Rox?

   5. RIRich0:43

      The hardest one was [beep] .

   6. APAlex Partridge0:47

      Is that a betrayal?

   7. RORox0:52

      I don't want you, I don't want to do anymore.

   8. APAlex Partridge0:58

      Can I have just a second of your time? If this podcast has helped you understand your brain or made you feel less alone, can you do me one favor? Can you hit the subscribe button? And I'll repay the favor by continuing to book the best and most exclusive conversations on this topic. Please enjoy the episode, and always remember, you're not broken, just different, and you have always been enough. Rich, Rox, welcome back.

   9. RIRich1:23

      Thanks for having us.

   10. RORox1:24

       Thank you. It's our favorite pod, and it's an honor to be back.

   11. APAlex Partridge1:28

       I normally ask you guys really nice questions, but I think I'm gonna ask you one that actually might cause one of you to storm out of the studio. [laughs]

   12. RIRich1:36

       Oh, God. Okay.

   13. RORox1:37

       It's gonna be me, isn't it? Okay.

   14. APAlex Partridge1:38

       All right. I'm scared.

   15. RORox1:39

       Let's go.

2. 1:40 – 7:27

   Has ADHD & Autism Ever Strained Their Marriage?

   1. APAlex Partridge1:41

      Rox, you've got ADHD. Rich, recently diagnosed with autism. Has that combination ever caused you guys to break up?

   2. RIRich1:49

      No, well, not actually break up but-

   3. RORox1:50

      Not actually break up but-

   4. RIRich1:51

      Nearly

   5. RORox1:51

      ... definitely. Nearly, yeah. [laughs] Oh, my God.

   6. APAlex Partridge1:56

      What?

   7. RORox1:56

      Who's gonna go first with why?

   8. RIRich1:58

      You, you go ahead.

   9. RORox2:00

      Uh, 'cause I know s- straight away what it is about you.

   10. RIRich2:03

       [laughs] Really?

   11. RORox2:04

       Yeah.

   12. RIRich2:04

       Well, what then?

   13. RORox2:06

       That I love you.

   14. RIRich2:08

       [laughs] Yeah.

   15. RORox2:09

       But I also like Alex's question, so I am gonna answer. I actually have a lot of guilt about this because now he has been diagnosed autistic, I see it in a totally different way, okay? So I wanna preface it with that. It was the emotional shutdowns. When we were having tough conversations, it would make me feel like listened to or that he was doing it on purpose to, to... If I wanted to talk, and he would walk away or wouldn't make eye contact with me, wouldn't talk to me. Um, like very, very different argument styles. And for a long time, I just thought that we, I don't know, weren't that great at communicating, or he didn't wanna talk to me, or he was rejecting me, so it brings in the whole RSD angle. Um, I don't think I ever thought about breaking up with you 'cause I don't think I'd do very well in life if I didn't have you.

   16. RIRich3:13

       You'd go back to missing flights.

   17. RORox3:14

       I would, yeah.

   18. APAlex Partridge3:15

       [laughs] How does that make you feel, Rich, hearing Rox say that?

   19. RIRich3:18

       Um, I understand it. I think not only-- I don't think she needs to feel guilt about it because I can see why it would've been frustrating. I think the difference is, since I've been diagnosed, well, actually probably a bit before that, I've just been a bit better at communicating, "This is how I'm currently feeling. I can't continue this conversation anymore 'cause I'm on the verge of just being overwhelmed," or, "Uh, I don't understand everything well enough to be able to articulate myself the way..." And she understands that, whereas at the start, I would've just gone silent, right?

   20. RORox3:53

       Oh, yeah. And I'd be like, "Why aren't you speaking to me?" Not looking.

   21. RIRich3:55

       [laughs]

   22. RORox3:56

       "Uh, you've made me feel rejected." Not looking. It was almost like a recipe for disaster when you think about... We're, like, so different in terms of how we argue or disagree.

   23. APAlex Partridge4:07

       Were you aware of that frustration from Rox at the time?

   24. RIRich4:12

       Yeah, I think so. But I didn't, I didn't have the words to be able to communicate w-why I was shutting down. 'Cause, like, the thing is, when we have conflict, and we don't have much of it, um, I can, even to the point where I know that I've upset her about something, if I don't fully understand why I've upset her, what my actions were, logically, I can't really engage with the conversation. So if she says, "You've upset me because of this," and I think in that moment, "Well, I'm, I'm in the right, but I know she's not..." Or, "I think I'm in the right, but I know she's not an unreasonable person," I'll be like, "I've, I've heard it. Can I have some time to process everything that you've just said?" And typically, I'll come back and be like, "I actually can see where I've gone wrong there."

   25. RORox4:59

       But that's the, that's the magic bit, is knowing. That break, so whereas historically in a row... So imagine you're in a row, and I say, "You've really upset me. You said this thing. I'm really upset." And your partner goes, "I cannot see logically why that would've upset you." Which then-

   26. RIRich5:18

       [laughs]

   27. RORox5:19

       ... makes you more upset, so it just used to escalate. But now I'm so chill. I'm like, "No problem. Go and have some time alone. Let's chat later." And you're the most reasonable, awesome person to have a disagreement with, but I've learnt there won't be a row, there won't be a heat-of-the-moment discussion. He needs processing time, so I just need to not be a dick, basically.

   28. RIRich5:44

       Because that is one thing I, if there is something that I would pride myself on, is saying sorry if I am actually in the wrong, but I need to know that I'm in the wrong.

   29. RORox5:53

       You need to analyze everything I've said, what actually happened, figure out...

   30. RIRich5:57

       [laughs]
3. 7:27 – 15:21

   When ADHD & Autism Clash

   1. RORox7:27

      it.

   2. APAlex Partridge7:27

      And so Rich is now proudly autistic. You've obviously been proudly ADHD for a while. What do you think those two conditions, in terms of their traits, which clashes do you think happen the most? What traits causes the most clash?

   3. RIRich7:40

      Well, this probably leads quite good into the, the, the thing that frustrates me, and I'm, I need to be careful not to get canceled on an ADHD podcast, uh, because I'm not by any means wanting to, to shame ADHD, but mine's quite simple as the laundry, right? Now let me explain 'cause I don't wanna sound like a, a dick. Um, I- Rox isn't very good with laundry. If she... Sometimes says she'll help and do it. She'll put a load on then forget about it or whatever. Like, there was, she flooded the kitchen recently.

   4. APAlex Partridge8:13

      [laughs]

   5. RIRich8:14

      So we, so we a- so we had about 20 soaked towels, and in the moment, 'cause she of guilt and shame, she was like, "I'm gonna do it." She put one load on, and that was her contribution done. Um, but I haven't, I don't mind that, right? So she's a creative genius, is what I, how I would describe her. Certainly far outweighs my ability in that scene. So she's got her strengths. I've got mine. What I don't like, and the s- the thing that frustrates me even still, is although I don't mind doing it, I don't like it being made harder for me. So I don't like clothes being scattered around in locations where there shouldn't be clothes, and it's like we... There's a system. There's a wear again shelf. There's dirty laundry, and it's like that is, that's as, that's as understanding as I think I can get to make loads of things accessible to make it so when she takes a T-shirt off, it goes in one of three locations, and that, and that still doesn't happen.

   6. APAlex Partridge9:16

      [laughs] How does that make you feel, Rox, hearing Rich say that? [laughs]

   7. RORox9:19

      Guilty as charged. Like, I... It is the one area, I don't think we row.

   8. RIRich9:26

      No.

   9. RORox9:26

      There's no, like, raised voices, but there's tension w- when he's like, "Babe-

   10. APAlex Partridge9:32

       [laughs]

   11. RORox9:33

       "... are these clothes on the floor for the wear again pile or the laundry?" And I know I've had a history of, like, in that moment, feeling criticized. I should be 'cause I'm being a knob, but feeling criticized and then wanting to, "God, not now. The, I'm doing something. I'm, I'm work. I was..." Not wanting to be told what to do, and being a bit rejecting, whereas actually it is wrong. We live together. We're married. It's not fair. It, it doesn't matter what the gender is, one person doing all of the work. You take on the lion's share of it. I make it worse. Even saying that thing about me flooding the bathroom and saying out of guilt and shame I was gonna do the towels, I completely-

   12. RIRich10:19

       Did you forget that?

   13. RORox10:19

       I'd forgotten that.

   14. RIRich10:20

       [laughs]

   15. RORox10:20

       I'd even said that, and I'd forgotten that I'd done one and for- forgot the other 19. I don't like that about myself. If you give me a button and was like, "Could you change the fact [laughs] that you can't put your bloody clothes in the..." Say, I'd press it in a heartbeat for him and for me, and for the kids that are watching me, I'm like, "Oh my God, what my, what sort of example is this?"

   16. RIRich10:43

       Yeah.

   17. APAlex Partridge10:44

       So this is interesting.

   18. RORox10:45

       Yeah.

   19. APAlex Partridge10:45

       If I turned the tables, what of Rich's autistic traits cause clashes in your relationship?

   20. RORox10:54

       It's the, when we're in front of other people, sometimes the not adhering to social norms, and again, we're on a neurodi- a neurodivergent-friendly podcast. I don't, it's not me saying it's bad or wrong. I get it. I'm proud of him, but if we are [laughs] driving-

   21. APAlex Partridge11:20

       [laughs]

   22. RORox11:21

       ... and somebody lets him in, right? Very often he, he won't wave, 'cause he's just, "Folks on the road, that's just how it work. I'm just driving." I cannot tell you the panic that goes through my body. I'm like, "Babe, wave," and I'm like leaning out, going, "Wave. Like, thank you."

   23. RIRich11:37

       Let me clarify though because no, that, I'm not having that.

   24. RORox11:41

       Go on.

   25. RIRich11:42

       So if, if somebody does something, and it's my right of way, so like yeah, wave, because it's my road. Like, I'm not thanking you 'cause you have to do that. You would... Like, if somebody lets me in or, like, is kind or whatever, then I'll, I'll do a, do a hand gesture to say thank you, whereas you wanna thank everyone for everything, and I'm like, "Well, no, if that's what they should be doing- They don't deserve a thank you.

   26. RORox12:10

       Yeah.

   27. RIRich12:10

       That's just adhering to-

   28. RORox12:12

       To the rules

   29. RIRich12:12

       ... traffic rules. [laughs]

   30. RORox12:13

       And I get that, but, but say you're coming up, we're on a country lane, you're coming up to someone, and it's your right of way, so they wait for you, but then they have to wait 30 seconds, and you drive past really close.
4. 15:21 – 17:05

   Rich's Autism Diagnosis Story

   1. APAlex Partridge15:22

      But first, I wanna ask Rich about your autism assessment.

   2. RIRich15:26

      Yeah.

   3. APAlex Partridge15:26

      How did you find that?

   4. RIRich15:28

      Uh, really strange and really uncomfortable. Um, the, the asking questions, I was, I was okay with. I had to answer loads of different questions, but then there were some things that were just, that were just really weird and really uncomfortable. Um, like, I had to teach, uh, to pretend over Zoom to, that she, the, my assessor, had, didn't know how to clean her teeth, and I had to, like, use props to explain how to clean teeth, and there's, like, also a frog book where I needed to... It was just pictures, and I needed to make up a story to go with the pictures, and it's like, this is not me at all. I suppose that's why they do it, but-

   5. APAlex Partridge16:12

      What were they testing for with the frog pictures?

   6. RIRich16:14

      I, I have, I have no-

   7. APAlex Partridge16:15

      [laughs]

   8. RIRich16:15

      ... I have no idea.

   9. RORox16:17

      Didn't they say when they give you the diagnosis, something about how you struggled to... You just said what you could see rather than coming up with a story.

   10. RIRich16:25

       Oh, that's right. Yeah. W- w- the, it was... [laughs] Put it this way, if a child was listening to this story I was telling, they would be like, "What is this?"

   11. APAlex Partridge16:36

       [laughs]

   12. RIRich16:36

       "Get out of my room, and send somebody else in." 'Cause I was looking at the pictures and just sort of describing what I was seeing.

   13. RORox16:43

       Mm.

   14. RIRich16:43

       It was like the catchphrase of frog books. Uh, but it was, there was no real creativity, and I was noticing things as well, like times on clocks and stuff like that. It was just, yeah.

   15. APAlex Partridge16:54

       Yeah. It's been two years since you guys were last on, which is absolutely bonkers how fast time goes. And I remember you were saying you were going for an assessment when you were last on, and obviously now you've gone through the process, and you've got the diagnosis, which is, which

5. 17:05 – 18:35

   The Autism Traits Hidden in Plain Sight

   1. APAlex Partridge17:05

      is amazing. Are there any traits that you associate with autism that you look back on now from your earlier years, and they suddenly, like, make so much sense?

   2. RIRich17:13

      Um, what... The, the hardest one I think for me, um, was, so my relationship with alcohol and gambling, my addictions. I always thought that it was due to a traumatic experience of abuse when I was young, and it was, like, bottled-up anxiety and, and stuff like that. Um, after being diagnosed autistic, I'm li- I, I, I really am... And who knows? There's no right or wrong answer, but I'm really thinking, like, it, it was my relationship with alcohol because I was just so uncomfortable masking and existing and being overwhelmed in loud environments and stuff like that. All the stuff that I... It was innately, um, not acceptable to, to verbalize, certainly not with the persona that I was, like, giving of, of, like, the bank manager alpha male whatever. Um, so I just used to drink to get through it, and I just, I wonder... It, it, it didn't really give me clarity. It, it, it brought up loads of questions probably is the best way, and that was quite difficult for me 'cause it was like, "Shit, what-" What is that? That, that's been my identity. That's been really neatly compartmentalized in my brain as to why I am and why I've done the things that I do, and now there's just this added layer of, I wonder if that isn't

6. 18:35 – 19:01

   Did Rich Use Alcohol to Mask?

   1. RIRich18:35

      the reason.

   2. APAlex Partridge18:35

      Was the alcohol part of the mask back then?

   3. RIRich18:39

      I think, I think so, yeah. It was to... Well, it was one part of the mask, 'cause it's what everyone did, but I also do think it was, like, a bit of medicine, certainly around, you know, networking events and after, after-work drinks and stuff like that. I think definitely it played its part.

   4. APAlex Partridge18:57

      And now with the sobriety and the autism diagnosis,

7. 19:01 – 20:05

   Life After Dropping the Mask

   1. APAlex Partridge19:01

      has your masking changed throughout the process?

   2. RIRich19:05

      Yes. So I, uh, even before the diagnosis, I don't think that I've masked for quite a while. Like, I've been w- [laughs] I've been quite honest about how I am, 'cause we thought I was, right? You d- you... I didn't go from thinking I was neurotypical, getting a diagnosis, and then thinking I'm autistic. Like, there's, there's reasons that lead you to, to be there. And I, I saw something the other day, um, which I don't know how true it is, but it was a, a doctor on, um, social media saying that neurotypical people don't question whether they're autistic or neurodivergent. They don't sit there and go, "I wonder if I am." So, like, that's usually a bit of a telltale start in how the journeys start. Um, but yeah, I, I have completely lost my trail of thought-

   3. APAlex Partridge19:55

      [laughs]

   4. RIRich19:56

      ... right now.

   5. RORox19:57

      [laughs] It's about your, you not masking-

   6. RIRich20:02

      Oh, yeah. I-

   7. RORox20:02

      ... anymore, which I don't-

   8. RIRich20:04

      I don't think I do at

8. 20:05 – 24:03

   Has Rich Changed Since His Diagnosis?

   1. RIRich20:05

      all now.

   2. APAlex Partridge20:06

      Rox, have you noticed a difference in Rich since his diagnosis?

   3. RORox20:10

      Y- yes, but similar to what he said, it definitely began maybe in the year leading up, and we were actually acting as if, um, he was, and I was certainly making changes in my communication, how I presented information, and I was getting some better results. So I was like, "Hmm." Like, I wouldn't just drop an impulsive plan. I'd, like, take very slow steps, very logical, no pressure. And yeah, the things were working. So we were kind of acting as if you were. But I think the biggest change is a connection, your connection to your own body, which wasn't there before. So before, you suffered with horrendous anxiety, um, being ill, throwing up pretty much every morning for, like, 20 years. That doesn't happen anymore, but it almost was a, like a displaced discomfort of living, and he'd never say he was uncomfortable or couldn't do something or felt too much or, or overwhelmed. Like, you didn't have that. You just showed up, manned up, pushed through. Almost like y- your body and self-care wasn't a part of it, whereas now, how you feel, whether that is needing a certain temperature in bed or getting really overwhelmed, um, or needing to leave a social s- setting early or not go at all or not play by any kind of social norms, it's like you're putting yourself first, and you're so much happier, I think.

   4. RIRich21:54

      Yeah. Actually, like, to, to contradict what I said, the one thing that w- is quite interesting for me after the diagnosis is I do believe that I, like, became more autistic. I know that sounds strange to say, uh, but goes back to masking. Even little things like gross stuff in the sink or a- anything, like, sensory like that, I used to just be able to push through it. Even when, even in the last couple of years where I've been thinking that I am autistic. Like, as soon as I got that validation and that is like, "You're autistic..." And by the way, it's not acting like it. I can be home alone trying to clean the kitchen and be like, "Oh, that's so gross, I can't touch that," and walk away from it. So it's not like a show or doing it for anyone's benefit.

   5. RORox22:41

      [laughs]

   6. RIRich22:41

      It's like, it, it's a really strange... Apparently, it's quite common, but...

   7. APAlex Partridge22:44

      Hmm. Very. I spoke to Gina Rippon, the author of The Lost Girls of Autism.

   8. RIRich22:49

      Okay.

   9. APAlex Partridge22:49

      And she was talking about exactly that, is when you get a diagnosis of autism or ADHD, and suddenly you just focus on that diagnosis so much that the traits come out more. [laughs]

   10. RIRich22:57

       Yeah.

   11. RORox22:57

       Yeah.

   12. APAlex Partridge22:57

       And, and the masking towards hiding them slips away.

   13. RORox23:01

       Yeah.

   14. APAlex Partridge23:02

       So actually, you focus more on the traits, and sometimes that can actually cause n- a negative because you become more aware of your differences, and you focus on the fact that you perhaps are different, more so than you thought, and that can cause some self-esteem issues.

   15. RIRich23:16

       Yeah. I, I certainly wouldn't look at it as a positive, act- like, in, in real life. Like, e- even at, even something so simple as sensory things, I was more functional before, and, like, and now I'm less.

   16. APAlex Partridge23:31

       Mm.

   17. RIRich23:31

       Um, so I wouldn't look at it as necessarily a positive thing.

   18. RORox23:36

       Interesting, though, 'cause you say more functional. Maybe from the outside in terms of just, like, getting through a normal day, but your emotional self is so much more functional. You as a parent, you as a partner, so much more functional. So you've had to, like, give up a few norms-

   19. RIRich23:57

       Yeah

   20. RORox23:58

       ... but you've got this freedom. So it's a, it's an interesting-

   21. RIRich24:01

       Yeah

   22. RORox24:02

       ... trade-off there.

   23. APAlex Partridge24:02

       Mm-hmm.

9. 24:03 – 31:53

   Is Rox Actually AuDHD?

   1. APAlex Partridge24:03

      And Rox, seeing Rich go through the process of, of going through the autism assessment and, and getting diagnosed, has that made you question whether you might have autistic traits or, dare I say, be AuDHD?

   2. RORox24:13

      So I've had AuDHD accusations on the internet for [laughs]

   3. RIRich24:19

      Accusations. [laughs]

   4. RORox24:19

      Yeah. By the way, I d- I, I mean that as light-hearted. Rich is autistic. ... serious autistic

   5. APAlex Partridge24:24

      Yeah, you don't need a lawyer [laughs]

   6. RORox24:25

      No, no, no.

   7. APAlex Partridge24:26

      [laughs]

   8. RORox24:26

      But, like, people have said it to me, I think because, I don't know, I, I, I kind of identify as a very sensitive person-

   9. APAlex Partridge24:35

      Mm

   10. RORox24:35

       ... um, a very deep thinker. I can get o- obsessed with, with things. Um, I did go through a phase of wondering, because that's the type of brain I have, like, "New thing, let me look into it." I did, um, every quiz I could find on the internet, and nothing ever came back more than maybe slight autistic traits, but never... And, and I did every single one, from the kind of official Raads-R all the way to the ASPIE quiz. Um, and it never came up. But I was so keen to investigate whether it could be true, because I've, I've heard some people say that anyone that says they're a highly sensitive person might actually be on the spectrum, and could those be linked? And being a highly sensitive person was very real to me. So I actually found, this must have been three years ago now, a company on the internet, it was, like, called Embrace Autism. S- they specialize in kind of diagnosis. They do, um, really look into high masking, late diagnosed women. So I was like, "If I am, this is where I'm gonna find out."

   11. APAlex Partridge25:47

       Mm.

   12. RORox25:47

       Um, so yeah. Booked the appointment, paid the 350 quid, got the forms. Never, never sent the forms. They followed up a couple of years ago, ignored the email. So, ADHD is definitely [laughs] -

   13. APAlex Partridge26:02

       [laughs]

   14. RORox26:02

       ... like, the stronger one. Um, I kind of do think that my dad is autistic. So obviously, knowing what we do now, you know, you've met my dad, right?

   15. RIRich26:15

       Yeah. Yeah, I would say that's-

   16. RORox26:17

       Like-

   17. RIRich26:17

       ... a fair-

   18. RORox26:18

       Fair?

   19. RIRich26:18

       ... judgment, yeah

   20. RORox26:19

       So knowing that, I'm like, "Well, could it be?" Don't know.

   21. APAlex Partridge26:25

       The stats-

   22. RORox26:25

       Don't know

   23. APAlex Partridge26:26

       ... the stats are really interesting. 50 to 80% of people with ADHD would reach the criteria for an autism diagnosis, and 30 to 50% of people with autism would reach the criteria for an ADHD diagnosis.

   24. RORox26:38

       Wow, is that true?

   25. APAlex Partridge26:39

       It's, the, the overlap-

   26. RORox26:40

       There's that much?

   27. APAlex Partridge26:41

       ... is huge. If I was a betting man, I would [laughs] -

   28. RORox26:43

       Go on. No, I'm interested

   29. APAlex Partridge26:44

       ... I, and obviously, from a very unprofessional opinion, I would put money on you. In fact, I would put money on both of you being AuDHD.

   30. RORox26:52

       No way.
10. 31:53 – 38:26

    Is Rich Actually AuDHD?

    1. APAlex Partridge31:54

       You're covered in incredible tattoos. Tell me to shut up, but you've got a couple of divorces, you've got a, uh, alcoholism, and a gambling addiction. Do you think you're impulsive?

    2. RORox32:08

       [laughs]

    3. RIRich32:08

       Uh, well, I didn't impulsively drink, I steadily drunk over a nu- [laughs]

    4. APAlex Partridge32:15

       [laughs]

    5. RIRich32:15

       ... a number of years.

    6. RORox32:16

       Every day.

    7. RIRich32:17

       The gambling, the, the tattoos were all planned out, and the, the, you know, being at this whole Marvel leg is because it's a fascination and real deep interest of mine. The gambling one, even to the extent not talking about from a neurodivergent lens, is the only one who makes no sense to me.

    8. RORox32:37

       Mm.

    9. RIRich32:38

       It's like that is complete compulsive behavior. Um-

    10. RORox32:45

        Wait, is this ADHD allegations for going through it?

    11. RIRich32:47

        No, there's no-

    12. APAlex Partridge32:48

        [laughs]

    13. RIRich32:48

        There is no chance.

    14. RORox32:50

        There is thing.

    15. RIRich32:50

        We'll never know, 'cause I'm not-

    16. APAlex Partridge32:51

        We'll let this play out in the comments.

    17. RORox32:52

        [laughs]

    18. RIRich32:53

        No.

    19. RORox32:53

        Wait, can you imagine? Let me think. Do you lose things?

    20. APAlex Partridge32:56

        Would you get assessed for autism, R- Rox?

    21. RORox33:00

        S- I, I don't know, because obviously I've done all the tests, but people will say, "Yes, you do, and y- your own aren't realistic." I got the forms, I didn't fill them out.

    22. RIRich33:13

        Well-

    23. RORox33:13

        Like, I just don't know

    24. RIRich33:14

        ... they are realistic. Like, I done loads of autism tests. Like, in the actual th- other than the frog books and the toothpaste and stu- or the tooth brushing-

    25. APAlex Partridge33:23

        [laughs]

    26. RIRich33:23

        ... the questions are the same.

    27. RORox33:25

        Yeah, I'd, like... I, of course, would, but it's also a question of the services and the demand. Like, w- what would it mean for me? So, ADHD ruined my life. I almost didn't make it through. Actually, life's, like, amazing, just with the ADHD knowledge. Um, I also was diagnosed with CP- CPTSD, so to come to your point earlier, that it should be looked at as a spectrum, I, I fully agree with that. Um, in great therapy, married, dog mom, stepmom, keep myself busy at work. Like, there's nothing that I am struggling with, actually, which is weird, [laughs] but also cool.

    28. RIRich34:11

        And one of the reasons I won't pursue an ADHD diagnosis is, is linked back to the regression. Like, if I get diagnosed ADHD and all of a sudden become more ADHD-

    29. RORox34:22

        [laughs]

    30. RIRich34:23

        ... and everything gets sacked off, and we stop-
11. 38:26 – 39:45

    Tiimo Advert

    1. APAlex Partridge38:26

       So sorry to interrupt your hyperfocus, but I promise it's worth it. Our sponsor is Tiimo, the best organizational tool for neurodivergent people. Tiimo wasn't named iPhone App of the Year in 2025 by Apple for no reason. It's the ultimate planning partner, gently helping you turn the chaos in your head into a day that actually feels doable, a day you might even look forward to. Tiimo is designed by neurodivergent brains for neurodivergent brains, and you can tell. It supports the stuff ADHD brains can find hardest: managing time, planning what needs doing, prioritizing tasks, staying focused, and actually finishing the thing. And the great news is Tiimo is now back on Android. The app on Android is still being built up to match the iOS experience, with even more features in the works. So if you're an Android user and you've been waiting to try it, you can now use Tiimo's core features too, including your daily plan, multiple to-do lists, and AI prioritization to help you figure out what to focus on first. Tiimo offers a visual way to plan your day without relying on willpower, memory, or a million sticky notes, helping you break down your daily agenda into something clear, calm, and actually possible. Give it a go, and use the link in my bio for 30% off. Just a note, though, the code only works in the web browser, not in the smartphone app. Back to the

12. 39:45 – 43:23

    Planning a Wedding as a Neurodivergent Couple

    1. APAlex Partridge39:45

       episode. What were the ups and downs of planning a, a wedding as a ADHD autistic couple?

    2. RORox39:49

       Oh, Lord. Oh, Lord.

    3. RIRich39:52

       We were engaged six years-

    4. RORox39:53

       Yeah

    5. RIRich39:54

       ... because of, because of that question-

    6. APAlex Partridge39:56

       [laughs]

    7. RIRich39:57

       ... about planning the wedding.

    8. RORox39:58

       Yeah. In planning it for six years. So it's all my fault. I hold my hands up. I would be like, "Right, it's finally time now to do the wedding ceremony. Cool." So I'd start the planning, start going into the sort of rabbit hole of the venue and what style of wedding and what kind of band, and you know when you sort of go into a hyperfocus, but it, it doesn't end. Like, you just descend deeper and deeper, and every, like, new layer you uncover, you're just getting darker and darker until you're fully burnt out. So every time I'd start, I'd be like, "Oh, this barn's nice. Let's look at other barns." It, it spread my attention so far, I'm burnt out. It's done for another few months. And it went on like that for years. I'd have moments of like, "I'm ready," and then just never did. Like, the admin of it just got-

    9. APAlex Partridge40:49

       Mm

    10. RORox40:49

        ... got in the way.

    11. APAlex Partridge40:50

        Was there a proposal?

    12. RORox40:52

        Oh, yeah, ps- six years ago. [laughs]

    13. RIRich40:54

        A long time ago now.

    14. RORox40:55

        After six months. Oh, important.

    15. APAlex Partridge40:57

        What was the proposal? What did that look like?

    16. RORox40:59

        Oh.

    17. RIRich40:59

        Uh, well, I had... She sort of knew it was coming, I think.

    18. APAlex Partridge41:05

        [laughs]

    19. RIRich41:05

        I had planned, took us to... I'd planned to take us to, like, a nice hotel with a spa, and it was gonna be, like, that weekend. I'd got the ring. Um, and then I didn't do that. I did it the night before.

    20. APAlex Partridge41:20

        Mm.

    21. RIRich41:20

        'Cause I was too, like... There's too much pressure on this. So I did it in bed, didn't I? I was like, "Babe, just gonna do it now." [laughs]

    22. RORox41:31

        [laughs]

    23. APAlex Partridge41:31

        [laughs]

    24. RIRich41:32

        Ever the romantic.

    25. RORox41:33

        That was it. In bed.

    26. APAlex Partridge41:34

        Yeah.

    27. RORox41:35

        I'm like naked. All my nails are broken. Um-

    28. RIRich41:38

        Oh, your nails were broken, actually.

    29. RORox41:40

        Yeah.

    30. RIRich41:40

        You had one-
13. 43:23 – 49:50

    Breaking the Silence on Intimacy

    1. RORox43:23

       it is lovely, so.

    2. APAlex Partridge43:24

       Marriage and hotel rooms brings us nicely onto intimacy. [laughs]

    3. RIRich43:29

       Here we go.

    4. RORox43:29

       Can't wait.

    5. APAlex Partridge43:31

       Sex. [laughs] You guys said you were comfortable. Let me know if you wanna stop. [laughs]

    6. RIRich43:35

       Be fine.

    7. RORox43:35

       It'd be fine. We're married now.

    8. APAlex Partridge43:37

       [laughs]

    9. RORox43:37

       Nothing to hide.

    10. APAlex Partridge43:39

        I heard you guys speak openly about your sex life, and you said something that f- that was super interesting, and I wanna mention now, the countdown clock. What is that?

    11. RORox43:48

        Oh. I feel like so many women are gonna know what this is, and I'm so glad that I don't have it anymore, but the countdown clock is basically your own imposed sense of anxiety and stress over how much physical intimacy you're having with your partner, and this sense, very often as the female partner, if you're not doing it three times a week every week forever, you're somehow failing your relationship. I dunno where this idea of, like, three times a week every week came from, but it's, like, not real life, yet somehow I'd grown up w- with this number in my head. And when I was, like, falling off from that, I dunno, it came with, like, I, I always used to say to you, didn't I? I was, like, worried. I feel ashamed. I remember the first time, like, verbalizing it, saying, "Oh, you must have it, too. It's, like, this countdown in your head, the last time we've had sex, and one day, two day, three days. If you get over two weeks-

    12. APAlex Partridge44:48

        Mm

    13. RORox44:48

        ... you better do something about it. If you're over a month, we need to see a therapist." He's like, "I-

    14. APAlex Partridge44:52

        [laughs]

    15. RORox44:52

        ... I'm not counting down at all." And that blew my mind. Like, you're not staring at this obsessively and thinking that something's wrong. You're- you're just-

    16. RIRich45:03

        The main-

    17. RORox45:03

        ... living

    18. RIRich45:04

        ... the main part of the conversation, though, was to validate to you that it's not, like, don't worry. It's easy to say, but, and, but, but I was like, "It's fine."

    19. RORox45:15

        Yeah, but there's a, a s- sense on women, I guess, I grew up in the '80s and '90s, it's your, this is gonna sound so archaic, and I don't believe this, but yet somehow it's entrenched in my psyche. It's your duty to take care of those kind of things, and if you're not, is something wrong? And I've, I've heard people say, you know, "If you're not sleeping with your partner, that's the first sign something's going wrong." And it would s- scare me that something was wrong with us when, like, nothing was wrong with us.

    20. RIRich45:49

        No.

    21. APAlex Partridge45:50

        I guess if there's some societal expectation that you're subconsciously aware of that you have to do it [laughs] three times a week, you might actually just push back from doing it at all?

    22. RORox45:59

        Oh, yeah, of course. I don't like being told what to do.

    23. APAlex Partridge46:01

        Yes. [laughs]

    24. RORox46:01

        Three times a week? No. I'll do none at all. Now I win. [laughs] Oh, dear.

    25. APAlex Partridge46:06

        Maybe I'll ask Rich. What bedroom challenges come with being autistic?

    26. RIRich46:13

        Oh. Um, temperature-

    27. APAlex Partridge46:18

        [laughs]

    28. RIRich46:18

        ... and impulsivity.

    29. APAlex Partridge46:20

        [laughs]

    30. RIRich46:22

        So, so- [laughs]
14. 49:50 – 58:28

    Rox's HRT Journey

    1. RORox49:50

       I've started, um, HRT-

    2. APAlex Partridge49:53

       Ah, yes

    3. RORox49:54

       ... a few months ago. Um, I'd been struggling. I didn't know, um, because some of the symptoms are ADHD symptoms, so I put it down to that. I was struggling to sleep. Well, of course, I got a racing brain. And I was struggling with brain f- brain frog. Brain-

    4. APAlex Partridge50:15

       Yes [laughs]

    5. RORox50:16

       ... fog. Um, crippling, though. As in, I couldn't actually do my work, um, thinking I was gonna need to quit music 'cause I, I couldn't focus and everything. Just didn't feel like myself. Felt really rubbish. Very low libido. And yeah, sp- spoke to a doctor and got put on HRT few months ago now.

    6. RIRich50:37

       Yeah.

    7. RORox50:37

       Oh my God, like, I, I can't believe I waited so long to do it. I'm 41. Um, but perimenopause can start in mid to late 30s, and it can hit people with ADHD really hard. It's often the time when women will find out-

    8. APAlex Partridge50:53

       Yes

    9. RORox50:54

       ... 'cause it's the hormones change, and then [laughs] that just, you've held it together-

    10. APAlex Partridge50:57

        Yes

    11. RORox50:58

        ... and I didn't, but some women did, and then it gets to perimenopause, and you cannot cope. So yeah, I lost a lot of my functioning, a lot of my libido, and it actually turned out that some of my low libido and my overthinking and my worries about sex was, like, as simple as a hormone issue. I've got on that old estrogen and progesterone, and it's game changed. Not only libido. Yeah, mine is higher than yours now, isn't it?

    12. RIRich51:29

        Easily.

    13. APAlex Partridge51:30

        [laughs]

    14. RORox51:31

        It's great. It's great. Not only that, but also, the, the brain fog has gone. I'm sleeping through the night. My hair's got a bit of bounce to it.

    15. APAlex Partridge51:40

        [laughs]

    16. RORox51:40

        Like, it, it, it really has done something quite amazing, and I, I just didn't know. I really didn't know.

    17. APAlex Partridge51:47

        That's such a, an amazing turnaround story. During the period pre-HRT, Rich, when the, the libido was low, but there wasn't an understanding of why, did that hit you at all in terms of rejection?

    18. RIRich51:58

        Um, no because although it was low, it, it was complicated, right? It was layered 'cause she had this countdown clock. She felt shame about not doing it, but didn't want to do it. So it was just, it was probably a topic in your therapy sessions as well. Um, it didn't, it didn't really strike me as rejection. It wasn't any fear that she doesn't love me or anything like that because she would validate me in loads of other ways. It was just purely that, that sex topic that was the-

    19. RORox52:32

        It's almost like I was thinking about it so much I forgot to do it.

    20. APAlex Partridge52:36

        [laughs]

    21. RORox52:37

        And, and that applies to so much of life when you're an overthinker-

    22. APAlex Partridge52:41

        Yes

    23. RORox52:41

        ... or an obsessional. You think about it so much you forget to do it, and I'm now like, "Stop thinking like that, and just do it."

    24. APAlex Partridge52:48

        [laughs]

    25. RORox52:48

        Like, whatever it is.

    26. RIRich52:49

        Mm.

    27. RORox52:50

        The difficult conversation, the sex with your partner. Whatever it is, stop thinking about it. Just do it. It's actually been quite a good life hack for me.

    28. APAlex Partridge52:57

        And when you are, I'll use your words, doing it [laughs]

    29. RORox53:01

        Doing it, yes.

    30. APAlex Partridge53:02

        What traits of ADHD causes issues?
15. 58:28 – 1:13:45

    The Cherry Tree Theory Explained

    1. RIRich58:28

       There you go.

    2. RORox58:28

       Come on. [laughs]

    3. APAlex Partridge58:29

       I want to ask you probably the biggest question that I've wanted to ask you since you walked in, and that is that both of you went from depression, addiction, suicide ideation, to now thriving, huge success, really probably on track to be millionaires. How did you do it?

    4. RORox58:47

       Can I just go and grab my book?

    5. APAlex Partridge58:49

       Yes, please.

    6. RORox58:54

       I have forgotten to bring a book. [laughs]

    7. APAlex Partridge58:56

       [laughs] That's all good.

    8. RORox58:56

       I'm sure you said you were bringing it.

    9. RIRich58:58

       No, I would've bought it if I'd said

    10. APAlex Partridge58:59

        We've got a picture on the screen now

    11. RORox59:00

        Okay. Sorry. I feel like it's on brand.

    12. APAlex Partridge59:02

        Yeah. [laughs]

    13. RORox59:02

        We have got a book. It's at home somewhere. Um, but basically the answer to that question is in the book, and this is the first time, I don't know, we told those stories, like, as dark as they were. And the book basically breaks down, um, like, how shit both of our lives were, to be honest with you. It starts with Rich, uh, on the M25-

    14. RIRich59:29

        Yeah

    15. RORox59:29

        ... thinking about driving into the middle of it is one chapter, and then me really, really struggling with, um, self-harm and self-injury and stuff like that when we were younger. And kind of each chapter takes you through what we had to go through to then try and get-

    16. APAlex Partridge59:45

        Mm

    17. RORox59:45

        ... to here, being happy and in love and with a lovely family, doing a lovely job. It's, it's quite brutal to write that and go back to those places, and quite sad. It, it's, it's almost you feel so disconnected from how awful you used to feel, um, but it actually just fills you with a lot of gratitude now.

    18. RIRich1:00:08

        Yeah.

    19. APAlex Partridge1:00:08

        It's an incredible book, and it's called The Cherry Tree Theory.

    20. RORox1:00:12

        [laughs]

    21. APAlex Partridge1:00:12

        If you could explain to a 10-year-old, what's the theory trying to teach?

    22. RORox1:00:16

        It's a crazy ADHD lady who got an idea and wouldn't stop-

    23. APAlex Partridge1:00:20

        [laughs]

    24. RORox1:00:20

        ... until she wrote a book. So it's basically saying that so much of self-help is focused on what you're doing wrong and self-improvement and self-optimization, and it can end up feeling a bit like blaming, self-blaming. But when we looked at our stories of how we actually went from rock bottom, and that is divorces, addictions, gambling debt, not wanting to be here, and me also addictions, horrendous relationships, self-harm, debt, to where we are now- We went through steps that you would go through if you're trying to bring a tree back to life, and it sounds so simple, but when we moved into our new house a couple of years ago, we had a cherry tree in the garden, and it was dying. And we both kind of got a bit obsessed with the mission of trying to bring it back to life, and Rich was obviously Mr. Google, looking at how you did that, and it was really, it was so simple. If a tree isn't blooming, there is something in its environment stopping that from happening. So you're gonna check the roots and make sure nothing's going on there. You're gonna make sure the soil is good. Is it getting enough light and water? Are there any pesticides? And there was a moment when we sort of looked at our lives and we're like, "It's so strange. We've almost gone through these seven steps." So if there's something poisoning the tree, like a pesticide, well, what's poisoning us? It was our addictions. Is something wrong with the root? Actually, on our tree, we had cherry tree slugs-

    25. RIRich1:01:58

        Ooh

    26. RORox1:01:58

        ... eating it, that we discovered when we were trying to save it. What's wrong with our roots? Well, there was a lot of dysfunctional family stuff we both had to deal with and get to therapy. So we kind of took the seven steps to bring the tree back to life and then told the seven stories of bringing ourselves back.

    27. RIRich1:02:14

        Let's hope it's not actually a 10-year-old listening to that.

    28. RORox1:02:17

        Was it a 10-year-old?

    29. RIRich1:02:18

        [laughs]

    30. RORox1:02:18

        I completely-
16. 1:13:45 – 1:22:19

    Biggest Secrets & Quickfire Questions

    1. RORox1:13:45

       cute. Thank you.

    2. APAlex Partridge1:13:45

       We're gonna do something a little bit fun.

    3. RORox1:13:46

       Okay.

    4. APAlex Partridge1:13:46

       For the final section, a little bit different.

    5. RORox1:13:48

       Yeah, we love it. We love it.

    6. APAlex Partridge1:13:48

       Little bit more high energy.

    7. RORox1:13:49

       Okay.

    8. APAlex Partridge1:13:49

       Right, we're gonna do an ADHD versus autism quick-fire round. I'm gonna ask a question to-

    9. RORox1:13:55

       My money's on Rich.

    10. APAlex Partridge1:13:56

        [laughs]

    11. RORox1:13:56

        [laughs]

    12. APAlex Partridge1:13:58

        So I'm gonna, I'm gonna set the scene, and-

    13. RORox1:13:59

        Yeah

    14. APAlex Partridge1:13:59

        ... you can both let me know how you would react-

    15. RORox1:14:01

        Okay

    16. APAlex Partridge1:14:01

        ... in either setting.

    17. RORox1:14:02

        Okay.

    18. APAlex Partridge1:14:03

        So ADHD, Rox-

    19. RIRich1:14:04

        Wait a minute, wait, whoa. Who, who goes first though? Like, are we answering at the same time, or is this gonna become obvious?

    20. APAlex Partridge1:14:11

        I'll go to Rox first.

    21. RIRich1:14:12

        Okay.

    22. RORox1:14:13

        Do you need any more rules or clarifications?

    23. RIRich1:14:15

        No, that's all I need.

    24. RORox1:14:16

        Okay.

    25. APAlex Partridge1:14:16

        You sure?

    26. RORox1:14:16

        Yeah.

    27. RIRich1:14:16

        Yeah.

    28. APAlex Partridge1:14:17

        Okay. Do you want me to write them down?

    29. RIRich1:14:18

        No. [laughs]

    30. APAlex Partridge1:14:19

        Okay.
17. 1:22:19 – 1:28:42

    Audience Questions

    1. RORox1:22:19

       believe that.

    2. APAlex Partridge1:22:20

       I wanna move on to the most unpredictable part of the show, which is the audience questions.

    3. RORox1:22:24

       Let's go. I'm so pumped.

    4. RIRich1:22:26

       The fir- the-

    5. RORox1:22:27

       I've had the most-

    6. RIRich1:22:27

       ... first time we were here, this was your first episode of-

    7. APAlex Partridge1:22:31

       It was

    8. RIRich1:22:32

       ... of, of the-

    9. RORox1:22:32

       The washing machine of woes

    10. RIRich1:22:33

        ... and you were trying to figure out how to pick it up without knocking the microphone.

    11. APAlex Partridge1:22:36

        Yeah. Do I... And now I'm, like, completely a pro.

    12. RORox1:22:38

        Oh, you-

    13. RIRich1:22:38

        Yeah, trained professional now

    14. RORox1:22:39

        ... no, you're, this-

    15. APAlex Partridge1:22:40

        Although this is a sweaty day, so I'm-

    16. RORox1:22:41

        [laughs]

    17. APAlex Partridge1:22:41

        ... I'm back to square one. It's falling out of my hand. [laughs]

    18. RORox1:22:44

        [laughs]

    19. APAlex Partridge1:22:45

        Uh, but as you guys know, the washing machine of woes represents woes from the audience in a washing machine, because for me, it represents memory loss, because I always leave the clothes in the machine after the cycle finishes. Although I do use the Tiimo app, which has helped, but I'm still a work in progress. Rox, dying to say something. [laughs] Do you, you do that as well, don't you?

    20. RORox1:23:02

        Yeah, I, 100%.

    21. APAlex Partridge1:23:04

        Yeah.

    22. RORox1:23:04

        When I do do washing, I do forget it.

    23. APAlex Partridge1:23:06

        This week in the washing machine of woes, somebody has written in and asked [sighs] , "What was it like dating in the early stages in terms of your neurodiversity? Because you're so different, how did it work?"

    24. RIRich1:23:20

        It nearly didn't. It nearly didn't at the early stages. Because obviously, during the honeymoon period, everyone loves everything, and, uh, you know, I would tidy up the flat, and she would make it messy in an hour, and I would find it adorable. "Oh, look, her clothes are all over the floor."

    25. APAlex Partridge1:23:37

        [laughs]

    26. RIRich1:23:37

        Uh, it, it very quickly went to... And by the way, she wasn't diagnosed, I wasn't diagnosed. I just thought she was being disrespectful. So I can 100% see how neurodivergence can end relationships without the right language and understanding.

    27. RORox1:23:57

        Yeah. I also think, again, let's go post-honeymoon, 'cause, like, you're just, you're blinded by love, aren't you-

    28. RIRich1:24:04

        Yeah

    29. RORox1:24:04

        ... for a few weeks? It was wonderful. Um, I think if I go back to the communication stuff, I could feel really alone, and I'm, like, a big talker and a big communicator, and I, I couldn't get you to, like, react to me, and I'd always be looking on Rich's face for, like, signs of emotion and caring, and they wouldn't be there, 'cause now I know why. 'Cause he-

    30. RIRich1:24:30

        You're not gonna get much from that.
18. 1:28:42 – 1:30:04

    A Letter to My Younger Self

    1. RORox1:28:42

       as well.

    2. APAlex Partridge1:28:42

       Just finally, I'm gonna deliver to you a letter that was written by the previous guest, where they wrote a letter to their younger self, and the next guest, which is you today, reads it. There we go. If you could kindly read out the letter.

    3. RORox1:28:54

       Who wants to read it?

    4. RIRich1:28:56

       You. I'm not very good at reading.

    5. RORox1:28:57

       You can read that bit.

    6. RIRich1:28:58

       To the next guest. Yeah, I can read that. [laughs]

    7. RORox1:29:00

       Oh, my gosh. Okay. To my younger self, don't be afraid to be different. I don't see normal as aspirational. Why are you giving neurotypical people the power to make you feel bad about yourself? Move the conversation from neurodivergent to neuro extraordinary.

    8. APAlex Partridge1:29:27

       Wow.

    9. RORox1:29:27

       Well, that's blooming... Neuro extraordinary. I don't think I'm, I'm quite confident saying that, but-

    10. RIRich1:29:31

        They're clever as well, whoever wrote that, 'cause their writing looks clever

    11. RORox1:29:35

        ... it's that really neat, proper italic writing that actually does-

    12. RIRich1:29:40

        I would struggle even more to read it though

    13. RORox1:29:42

        ... s- scare me. I went slowly for a reason there, guys.

    14. APAlex Partridge1:29:44

        [laughs]

    15. RORox1:29:44

        Okay? But it was beautiful. I love it.

    16. APAlex Partridge1:29:46

        Sarah Whalley, who was the founder of the Key Clinic, she's a very, very lovely lady, who wrote that.

    17. RORox1:29:51

        Gorgeous. We love it, Sarah.

    18. RIRich1:29:52

        She's very clever.

    19. APAlex Partridge1:29:52

        She is, yeah.

    20. RORox1:29:53

        Yeah, she's g-

    21. RIRich1:29:54

        And, and, uh, you can tell

    22. RORox1:29:54

        ... that's Oxbridge. Yeah.

    23. APAlex Partridge1:29:55

        [laughs]

    24. RORox1:29:55

        That is clever lady handwriting.

    25. APAlex Partridge1:29:57

        Rich and Rox, once again, on behalf of everyone grappling to understand their brains, thank you so much.

    26. RORox1:30:01

        Thank you. [outro music]

Episode duration: 1:30:05