How to Land your Dream Job - Chats with my Team (@kaelynthehistorian)

1. 0:00 – 14:02

   Introduction and Networking

   1. KAKaelyn Apple0:00

      If you can be seen and you can be seen doing good work, then you are more likely to get your foot in the door if there is an opportunity.

   2. AAAli Abdaal0:07

      Hmm.

   3. KAKaelyn Apple0:08

      You need to be seen working really hard, so you need to be seen.

   4. AAAli Abdaal0:11

      In this episode, I'm interviewing one of my newest, I think my newest team member, Kaelyn Apple, who is actually herself a YouTuber with over 100,000 subscribers. She's also a former professional athlete. She is currently doing a PhD, which is nearly finished, and she joined our team as the community manager for our Productivity Lab.

   5. KAKaelyn Apple0:27

      What I felt like I was missing in my experience as an entrepreneur was that I wanted the team. I wanted to feel like I was immersed in something that was bigger than me, and I think this is part of why entrepreneurs go into wanting to start their own projects, because they don't see it being created by somebody else, so they figure, "Okay, I'll make it myself." I'd seen it in your YouTube videos, but I hadn't ever really gotten to see it up close.

   6. AAAli Abdaal0:54

      Hmm.

   7. KAKaelyn Apple0:54

      And getting to see how your brain works is so fascinating to me. [laughs]

   8. AAAli Abdaal0:59

      Kaelyn, welcome to whatever this podcast ends up being. How are you doing?

   9. KAKaelyn Apple1:03

      I'm great. [laughs]

   10. AAAli Abdaal1:04

       Um-

   11. KAKaelyn Apple1:04

       Glad to be here.

   12. AAAli Abdaal1:05

       So you are one of the newest team members.

   13. KAKaelyn Apple1:07

       Yeah.

   14. AAAli Abdaal1:07

       And before we were recording, you mentioned that you had networked your way to this job.

   15. KAKaelyn Apple1:11

       [laughs]

   16. AAAli Abdaal1:12

       I wonder if you can elaborate. How did you network your way to this job, and what can other people potentially learn from that?

   17. KAKaelyn Apple1:17

       All right. So I knew that I was moving to London probably about six months in advance of when I actually was, and I knew that part of the reason I wanted to move to London was for my research, for my PhD, but I was also moving for the opportunity to grow my YouTube channel, meet people, and be a little closer to the action. And one thing that I wanted to do was connect with other people that were doing things that I thought were cool and that I was generally interested in. And so it wasn't thinking about networking in the framework of, oh, if I reach out to some person and build a connection, it'll land me a job. The way I thought about networking was, let me just find ways to be in the general ecosphere of people that are doing things that I think are cool. And one way that I sought to do that was actually joining PTYA.

   18. AAAli Abdaal2:13

       Oh.

   19. KAKaelyn Apple2:14

       Um-

   20. AAAli Abdaal2:14

       The Part-Time YouTuber Academy. [laughs]

   21. KAKaelyn Apple2:15

       I did, yes.

   22. AAAli Abdaal2:16

       Yeah.

   23. KAKaelyn Apple2:16

       Um, and part of it was to grow my YouTube channel and to network and meet other people, but if I'm honest, one of the main reasons I wanted to join PTYA was because then if I've learned anything in my life, it's that if you can be seen and you can be seen doing good work, then you are more likely to get your foot in the door if there is an opportunity.

   24. AAAli Abdaal2:37

       Hmm.

   25. KAKaelyn Apple2:38

       And this is a philosophy that helped me as a professional athlete, landed me my first professional training job as an equestrian. It's what has landed me opportunities in academia and now is landing me opportunities professionally. And it has meant that, you know, I joined PTYA, and then when I got to London, I attended an event, and I just made it so that way, my plan was to just make sure that my name was visible-

   26. AAAli Abdaal3:07

       Hmm

   27. KAKaelyn Apple3:07

       ... make sure that my work was visible. And if an opportunity arose, then hopefully there would be some name recognition.

   28. AAAli Abdaal3:14

       Hmm.

   29. KAKaelyn Apple3:15

       And that was another strategy when I was applying for this job was, okay, I'm gonna make a video, and there was a video application required, but I was like, okay, so how can I do this in a way that reminds them that they've likely seen a YouTube video of mine before?

   30. AAAli Abdaal3:31

       Hmm.
2. 14:02 – 28:03

   Being Part of a Team

   1. KAKaelyn Apple14:02

      starting a new product and figuring out what it's gonna be and how it is that it's gonna change and trying to get the systems put into place. I have learned in my time, having run my own businesses and doing my PhD, is that once I start a project, it's really hard for me to take a step back.

   2. AAAli Abdaal14:19

      Hmm.

   3. KAKaelyn Apple14:20

      Um, and so trying to set more clear boundaries. Everybody on this team works really hard.

   4. AAAli Abdaal14:25

      Hmm.

   5. KAKaelyn Apple14:26

      And Bev, for example, is, like, constantly online. [laughs] And wanting to, you know, impress the team and do a really good job, um, but also make sure that I'm doing the things that I can in order to ensure that I am as productive a team member as possible.

   6. AAAli Abdaal14:42

      Hmm.

   7. KAKaelyn Apple14:42

      So knowing that that requires me to take a step back every once in a while.

   8. AAAli Abdaal14:47

      Hmm. And do you get the sense that if you're not online, then, like, I don't know, Allison or Gareth will feel like, "Oh, Kaelyn's not pulling her weight"? Or like, what, what's, what's going on in, in your head about this, this... Because I guess in, in some jobs there is this idea that, like, if I'm seen to be leaving on time, then people will look down on me or something like that.

   9. KAKaelyn Apple15:05

      So I think there is that natural anxiety. That is part of it. But on the other hand, I also know that I don't want the coaches that are working with me to see that, for example, I am online 24/7 and expect that they are online. And so trying to remind myself to lead by example-

   10. AAAli Abdaal15:25

       Hmm

   11. KAKaelyn Apple15:25

       ... while also combating the inner voice that says, "Oh, well, if you need to be seen working really hard, so you need to be seen," um, you need to be seen online or you need to be seen adding, you know, updates to Slack and that kind of thing.

   12. AAAli Abdaal15:40

       Hmm.

   13. KAKaelyn Apple15:41

       But one thing that I have started to do and have communicated clearly with the team is, I will let you know when I am offline and when I am back online, so that way I am clearly communicating when I am setting a boundary that I need to take a step back, or I even put up a message saying, "I'm going into two hours of deep work. I won't be answering messages, but I'll check back in at this time."

   14. AAAli Abdaal16:04

       Yeah.

   15. KAKaelyn Apple16:05

       I find that if you're able to communicate that and people are aware of what it is that you're doing, then that anxiety of, "Oh, what's Kaelyn up to?"

   16. AAAli Abdaal16:12

       Yeah.

   17. KAKaelyn Apple16:12

       "Is she actually working?" I, I feel like that there's less anxiety of that from the side of my supervisor, but also from my own understanding. But at the same time, I'm trying to do that to model that behavior for other people on the team and hope that they also know-

   18. AAAli Abdaal16:32

       Hmm

   19. KAKaelyn Apple16:32

       ... that they can take a step back and that, for example, they can go and do deep work. And this is something I've learned from running my own businesses and having teams, that trying to lead by example is the best mode-

   20. AAAli Abdaal16:46

       Hmm

   21. KAKaelyn Apple16:46

       ... of action. And so if I want to, for example, have my coaches, the people on my team that are working with me, I want them to be excited and ready to go and, uh, to be able to take on a task, but also to say where their boundaries are, because I don't want them to take on something that they actually don't have capacity for. If I can model that, then the hope is that they-

   22. AAAli Abdaal17:09

       Hmm

   23. KAKaelyn Apple17:09

       ... will also do the same. And I've seen little bits of that so far-

   24. AAAli Abdaal17:13

       Nice

   25. KAKaelyn Apple17:13

       ... which is good. [laughs]

   26. AAAli Abdaal17:14

       Oh, by the way, quick thing. In case you are interested in starting and/or growing and/or monetizing your YouTube channel, then you might like to check out my Part-Time YouTuber Academy. It is a course that has dozens and dozens of hours of content in it, along with templates and worksheets and resources that basically open-source absolutely everything that me and my team have learned about growing my YouTube channel and also this podcast YouTube channel over the last seven-plus years. So you can check that out at academy.aliabdaal.com. That'll be linked down below in the video description and the show notes as well. Feel free to check out the Part-Time YouTuber Academy. So you went from entrepreneur to employee, which sort of seems a bit backwards because a lot of people who are currently employees dream about being an entrepreneur.

   27. KAKaelyn Apple17:51

       Yeah.

   28. AAAli Abdaal17:52

       Why did you decide to that you didn't wanna be a full-time entrepreneur and instead wanted a, a job? [laughs]

   29. KAKaelyn Apple17:59

       I on the surface want stability, so that, that's one part of it. Having lived on the full-time income of being a YouTuber and content creator and creating my own courses and businesses and things, there's this constant kind of anxiety of, "Oh, well, what if it ev- what if it ever goes away?" And that's the thing is that that's kind of ar- artificial as well 'cause a job could just disappear if you get let go. Um, but what I felt like I was missing by- In my experience as an entrepreneur was that I wanted the team. I wanted to feel like I was immersed in something that was bigger than me, and I think this is part of why entrepreneurs go into wanting to start their own projects because they don't see it being created by somebody else, so they figure, "Okay, I'll make it myself." And what I found was that I did make it myself, and I felt like I did a pretty good job doing that, but there was also limitations to the brands that I felt like I could build, and I wanted to build something that had more impact.

   30. AAAli Abdaal19:08

       Hmm.
3. 28:03 – 31:14

   Incorporating Neurodiversity in Productivity Content

   1. KAKaelyn Apple28:03

      question. And they overlap, but I don't think they're necessarily the same thing. So in terms of productivity brand, as people like Cal Newport and others have started to identify, there is a need within the productivity space to consider neurodiversity.

   2. AAAli Abdaal28:19

      Hmm.

   3. KAKaelyn Apple28:20

      And it's a bit challenging to do so if you're not coming from a position of somebody who is neurodiverse. If you identify as neurotypical, then it is difficult to talk on topics-

   4. AAAli Abdaal28:30

      Yeah

   5. KAKaelyn Apple28:30

      ... of neurodiversity. And there are many productivity creators and other types of productivity content that I think goes so, so far in the other direction of, you know, hustle culture. This is not accessible to somebody that is neurodiverse.

   6. AAAli Abdaal28:47

      Yeah.

   7. KAKaelyn Apple28:47

      Uh, so thinking about how it is that we create productivity content that is more accessible generally is something that I think is a bit of a conversation-

   8. AAAli Abdaal28:57

      Hmm. Okay

   9. KAKaelyn Apple28:57

      ... in this space.

   10. AAAli Abdaal28:58

       So you'd be the accessible productivity gal-

   11. KAKaelyn Apple29:00

       I would attempt to-

   12. AAAli Abdaal29:00

       ... or something

   13. KAKaelyn Apple29:01

       ... I would attempt to be.

   14. AAAli Abdaal29:02

       Yeah.

   15. KAKaelyn Apple29:02

       I don't think I'm necessarily the, the poster child for having done that-

   16. AAAli Abdaal29:05

       Yeah

   17. KAKaelyn Apple29:05

       ... 'cause I, I, I, I identify as neurotypical.

   18. AAAli Abdaal29:08

       Yeah.

   19. KAKaelyn Apple29:09

       But thinking about how it is that we make the information more accessible to those that are neurodiverse-

   20. AAAli Abdaal29:16

       Yeah

   21. KAKaelyn Apple29:16

       ... and taking that into consideration in the way that we present information and productivity.

   22. AAAli Abdaal29:20

       Okay. And then the productivity business side?

   23. KAKaelyn Apple29:23

       In productivity business side, at the moment, there's a lot that is focused on the individual and individual systems of productivity. And the kind of offshot of that is community, and I think that that's what Productivity Lab is beginning to implement. A lot of people rely on tools. Tools isn't something that we've really considered, and I think that's a bit of a challenging consideration-

   24. AAAli Abdaal29:52

       Hmm

   25. KAKaelyn Apple29:52

       ... because tools looks like applications, physical products, things that require a lot of investment upfront that don't necessarily come to fruition in terms of direct user impact.

   26. AAAli Abdaal30:04

       Mm-hmm.

   27. KAKaelyn Apple30:05

       And I think that we just need to be creative about what perhaps this fourth option looks like. So you've got the individual.

   28. AAAli Abdaal30:15

       Mm.

   29. KAKaelyn Apple30:15

       So individual buys book-

   30. AAAli Abdaal30:16

       Yeah
4. 31:14 – 32:42

   Exploring Innovative Tools for Productivity

   1. KAKaelyn Apple31:14

      that, you know, implements these strategies for three years.

   2. AAAli Abdaal31:17

      Hmm.

   3. KAKaelyn Apple31:18

      And I think right now we're really reliant on the individual, like, making that decision and making that push.

   4. AAAli Abdaal31:25

      Hmm.

   5. KAKaelyn Apple31:27

      But how is it that we can create that experience in such a way that's not as much of a cognitive lift to get over the hurdle of implementing these strategies?

   6. AAAli Abdaal31:37

      Mm-hmm.

   7. KAKaelyn Apple31:37

      And I don't have an answer for that.

   8. AAAli Abdaal31:38

      Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

   9. KAKaelyn Apple31:39

      But I think that there's... If we can get creative, we can put our heads together, I think that there's an oppor- there's an opportunity.

   10. AAAli Abdaal31:45

       Hmm. Cool. Well, I think Caelyn Newport's gonna be here shortly.

   11. KAKaelyn Apple31:48

       [laughs]

   12. AAAli Abdaal31:48

       So thank you for hopping on this spontaneous podcast.

   13. KAKaelyn Apple31:50

       Of course. [laughs]

   14. AAAli Abdaal31:50

       Any, any parting advice for anyone who's listened this far and is maybe inspired by what, what they've heard you say?

   15. KAKaelyn Apple31:57

       Get your foot in the door. Be seen. Be seen doing good work, and be seen doing work that you really care about. Ask thoughtful questions, and lead by example.

   16. AAAli Abdaal32:08

       Great. Thank you very much.

   17. KAKaelyn Apple32:10

       Of course.

   18. AAAli Abdaal32:12

       All right, so that's it for this week's episode of Deep Dive. Thank you so much for watching or listening. All the links and resources that we mentioned in the podcast are gonna be linked down in the video description or in the show notes, depending on where you're watching or listening to this. If you're listening to this on a podcast platform, then do please leave us a review on the iTunes store. It really helps other people discover the podcast. Or if you're watching this in full HD or 4K on YouTube, then you can leave a comment down below and ask any questions or any insights or any thoughts about the episode. That would be awesome. And if you enjoyed this episode, you might like to check out this episode here as well, which links in with some of the stuff that we talked about in the episode. So thanks for watching. Uh, do hit the subscribe button if you aren't already, and I'll see you next time. Bye-bye.

Episode duration: 32:42